---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/25/06: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:17 AM - Re: Battery Questions? (BobsV35B@aol.com) 2. 07:36 AM - Re: Plane power Alternator pictures (Brian Lloyd) 3. 11:52 AM - B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (Jerry Grimmonpre) 4. 12:15 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure ('Peter Braswell') 5. 12:43 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 12:50 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (Mickey Coggins) 7. 01:46 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (LarryRobertHelming) 8. 02:22 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 02:22 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (John Schroeder) 10. 02:56 PM - Re: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure (Richard Tasker) 11. 05:23 PM - Re: Re:Garmin 296 power/battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 10:58 PM - avcomm AC-6PA diagram? (Wes) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:17:12 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery Questions? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 4/24/2006 8:55:19 P.M. Central Standard Time, nuckollsr@cox.net writes: If you have specific questions about something you discover there I'd be pleased to attempt an answer or find someone who can . . . Sounds Good To Me! Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:09 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Plane power Alternator pictures --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > > Here are some closeups of the new Plane Power Alternator > > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1058.JPG > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1059.JPG > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1060.JPG > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1061.JPG > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1062.JPG > http://www.vansairforce.net/delete_eventually/PlanePower/IMG_1063.JPG > > > Looks good, here is their site > > www.Plane-Power.com > > You can get a discount thru Van's aircraft. G Interesting. The site is a bit weak on details though. I presume that the experimental unit is internally regulated. I don't see how they provide a means of removing field excitation to disable the alternator in the case of a problem but that is probably just a matter of insufficient information on the web site. As for the versions for certified aircraft, there isn't a lot information there either. I guess they are just bolt-on replacement for existing alternators. Their point about superior output is a non-issue for me. I have never seen a load on any of my alternators that exceeded about 50% of rated capacity. Heck, on my Aztec I only hit 50% if one alternator is off line. The rest of the time I can barely see the 60A loadmeters (one per alternator) move. -- Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak at lloyd dot com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupery ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:32 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Listers ... I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system plus GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only want to order once. This is their list: 24-Tab Ground Block 24/24-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 48-Tab Ground Block Are there additional ground tabs required to accomodate avionics and inst panel ground tabs or do the above listed include those? Should the avionics and panel grounds be collected on local tabs and then those wired directly to the firewall forest of tabs as well? Many thanks to the list ... Jerry Grimmonpre' ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:59 PM PST US From: "'Peter Braswell'" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Peter Braswell'" Jerry, I can speak to how I addressed this. I'm a few weeks from flying, but I generally feel good about the wiring/grounding at this point. I've had absolutely no problems whatsoever. I used the 24/48 block. 48 are on the cabin side, 24 on the engine side. My ground cable runs from the - side of the battery to a point on the cage (I'm in a Glastar), from the cage to the back-side of the ground tab block. On the engine side of the firewall, I have a ground strap from the 24 tab side to the engine block. In terms of all the deivices in the airplane, everything gets its own ground so every switch, device, etc that needs a ground, gets its own ground on the ground tab. Same is true on the engine side of the firewall. I figured that each device getting its own ground would eliminate multiple devices failing because of a fault ground in the event that grounds were daisy-chained or ganged together. I don't know if this is in line with what Bob suggests, but in my mind it seemed reasonable. :-) -peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" --> Listers ... I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system plus GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only want to order once. This is their list: 24-Tab Ground Block 24/24-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 48-Tab Ground Block Are there additional ground tabs required to accomodate avionics and inst panel ground tabs or do the above listed include those? Should the avionics and panel grounds be collected on local tabs and then those wired directly to the firewall forest of tabs as well? Many thanks to the list ... Jerry Grimmonpre' ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:29 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" I made my own grounding system. If you can find a sheet of brass you can buy the tabs from Steinair for next to nothing. I made a 60 tab block for the backside and a 12 (I think) for the front side. Yes I have a number of spare tabs but not excessive. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:47 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" --> Listers ... I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system plus GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only want to order once. This is their list: 24-Tab Ground Block 24/24-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit 48-Tab Ground Block Are there additional ground tabs required to accomodate avionics and inst panel ground tabs or do the above listed include those? Should the avionics and panel grounds be collected on local tabs and then those wired directly to the firewall forest of tabs as well? Many thanks to the list ... Jerry Grimmonpre' ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:06 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR > platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system plus > GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only want to > order once. Hi Jerry, I made an "avionics ground" using the method described in this PDF: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/18Audio_R11.pdf I also have a 24 tab ground block in the cabin for pretty much everything. It's getting full. I've got some pictures and a drawing here: http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20060301215616213 My system might be different from yours - I'm using a Subaru and I have my batteries behind the baggage area. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:45 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" You can't go wrong with the 24/48 firewall kit. I did not need 24 on the engine side of the firewall but you will need a few and you need lots on the aft side. I used 48 and then started doubling up a few. No problem doing that just more work. Larry ----- Original Message ----- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" > > Listers ... > I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR > platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system plus > GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only want > to > order once. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:44 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Procedure Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Procedure At 03:13 PM 4/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "'Peter Braswell'" > > >Jerry, >I can speak to how I addressed this. I'm a few weeks from flying, but I >generally feel good about the wiring/grounding at this point. I've had >absolutely no problems whatsoever. > >I used the 24/48 block. 48 are on the cabin side, 24 on the engine side. >My ground cable runs from the - side of the battery to a point on the cage >(I'm in a Glastar), from the cage to the back-side of the ground tab block. >On the engine side of the firewall, I have a ground strap from the 24 tab >side to the engine block. > >In terms of all the deivices in the airplane, everything gets its own ground >so every switch, device, etc that needs a ground, gets its own ground on the >ground tab. Same is true on the engine side of the firewall. I figured >that each device getting its own ground would eliminate multiple devices >failing because of a fault ground in the event that grounds were >daisy-chained or ganged together. > >I don't know if this is in line with what Bob suggests, but in my mind it >seemed reasonable. :-) Dead on . . . Can't have a ground loop when there are no loops. Can't have a poor quality ground do to lack of surface preparation and/or loss of threaded fastener tension. Can't have a single fastener drop the grounds for multiple systems. >Are there additional ground tabs required to accomodate avionics and inst >panel ground tabs or do the above listed include those? > >Should the avionics and panel grounds be collected on local tabs and then >those wired directly to the firewall forest of tabs as well? check out the revision 11 additions to system ground diagrams in Z-15 and the discussion about an avionics/panel ground in Chapter 18. See photos on fabricating your own panel ground bus in the photos file at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Grounding Note, panel/avionics grounds should be used only for instrument panel mounted stuff . . . don't ground any other airframe systems to this bus. Extend this bus to the firewall ground by either one "chubby" wire (10AWG or so) or multiple 20AWG wires as suggested in the Z-figures. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:44 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure From: "John Schroeder" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" Buy the 24/48. You will use all of them :-)) John Schroeder do not archive. > Listers ... > I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR > platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system > plus > GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I only > want to > order once. > This is their list: > > 24-Tab Ground Block > 24/24-Tab Firewall Ground Kit > 24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit > 48-Tab Ground Block ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:16 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Tasker This is exactly what I did also. I got the brass from McMter Carr (www.mcmaster.com). Hobby shops also probably also carry it, but be sure to get a heavy gauge thickness - not thin shim stock. Dick Tasker Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > >I made my own grounding system. If you can find a sheet of brass you can >buy the tabs from Steinair for next to nothing. > >I made a 60 tab block for the backside and a 12 (I think) for the front >side. > >Yes I have a number of spare tabs but not excessive. > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry >Grimmonpre >Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:47 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: AeroElectric-List: B & C Grounding Kts and Grounding Procedure > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" >--> > >Listers ... >I'm about to order a grounding kit ... what have most ordered for an IFR >platform with the usual glass panel goodies, engine management system >plus GPS/COM There are several ground systems listed at B & C and I >only want to order once. >This is their list: > >24-Tab Ground Block >24/24-Tab Firewall Ground Kit >24/48-Tab Firewall Ground Kit >48-Tab Ground Block > >Are there additional ground tabs required to accomodate avionics and >inst panel ground tabs or do the above listed include those? > >Should the avionics and panel grounds be collected on local tabs and >then those wired directly to the firewall forest of tabs as well? > >Many thanks to the list ... >Jerry Grimmonpre' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:40 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Garmin 296 power/battery --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 04:14 PM 4/23/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dale Ensing" > > >Thanks Bob, you said >"We have three laptops in the family that use L-I batteries > for portable use and ALL are used as many hours or more with > external power plugged in. None of the instruction manuals > suggest that this is a 'bad' thing to do." > >Bob, >The laptop experience is one of the reasons I asked the question. My wife >gave me her laptop when she needed to upgrade for her business. She had >always used the laptop with external power. When I tried to use the battery >I found it now has a very short endurance. Maybe 10 minutes. I know NiCads >develope a memory...do L-I also do that? Have tried cycling the L-I but no >luck. There are a lot of ingredients in the recipe for success not the least of which is how 'smart' the laptop's charger is. I had a laptop years ago that ate batteries but for the most part, we've had good success for probably 3 or 4 dual-use laptops where they're plugged into AC mains most of the time. The easiest way to kill a perfectly good battery is to overcharge it. I suspect this as a strong hypothesis for your own experience. None of the laptops I've owned ever cautioned against extended operation under AC mains power. I suspect this is because the designers believed that their particular battery maintenance protocols were optimized for this kind of service. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:11 PM PST US From: Wes Subject: AeroElectric-List: avcomm AC-6PA diagram? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Wes I have an Aviation Communications AC-6PA intercom, but the harness is now mostly spaghetti so I need to rewire it (for an experimental). Does anyone have a wiring diagram for this or a similar model, or a link to how to test/guess without harming anything? (I found the 170B diagram on aeroelectric.com quite helpful.) Thanks in advance- Wes __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com