Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:07 AM - Re: Plane power Alternator pictures (Jekyll)
2. 12:50 PM - Charging system failure (DAVID REEL)
3. 02:16 PM - Re: Charging system failure (B Tomm)
4. 03:28 PM - Re: Plane power Alternator pictures ()
5. 03:55 PM - Re: Charging system failure (Brian Lloyd)
6. 08:29 PM - ANL Current :imiter (DonVS)
7. 10:05 PM - Re: Charging system failure (Mickey Coggins)
8. 11:11 PM - Re: Charging system failure (john@ballofshame.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Plane power Alternator pictures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jekyll" <rcitjh@aol.com>
I emailed several questions to Plane Power and was suprised to recieve a call from
Steve the next morning. He cared enough to spend 30 minutes talking with an
electrically challenged builder discussing the salient charachteristics of his
alternators. He seemed very willing to go into any level of detail I cared
to pursue. I informed him in my initial email I would buy through Vans at a substantial
discount if I decided on his product so he knew his profit from the
call would not be great.
He is confident in the internal VR set up in the experimental versions and spent
quite a bit of time explaining it to me. He also touts the dual cooling fans
and higher output at lower RPM. No load-dump issues.
As far as self excitation, well, I'm not savy enough to discuss that though I've
heard it can lead to difficulty seeing at night.
I suggest one of you more knowledgeable on these issues give him a call as I've
reached my level of alternator competence. Your knowledge would lead to a better
investigation of the attributes. My layman-level research however, has convinced
me that this is a great product at a fair price.
In summation, I was impressed with his responsivness and candor and have decided
to alter my plans from a B&C alternator and VR (total of $637) to the PP alternator
for $375. This is a big savings!
Ultimately, PP's greatest contribution may be to offer a high quality, cost point
comparison that will bring down B&C's prices. Isn't competition great?
Jekyll
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=30869#30869
Message 2
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| Subject: | Charging system failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I was flying along, 7.8 hours total so far, minding my own business, =
getting ready to do some climb testing when a blinking red light alerted =
me to low voltage. I switched the master off and the essential bus feed =
on ( wrong order by the way) & was relieved to see the system voltage =
perk up to 12.4v. I returned to Manassas without further incident but =
am now looking for a way to make the charging system more reliable. =
Here's what I found on the ground:
The alternator field coil main fuse, 7.5amp, was blown. This feeds a 5 =
amp circuit breaker which did not trip. Hypothesis: the overvoltage =
crowbar shorted the field coil circuit to ground. To test this I =
replaced the fuse, pulled the breaker, started the engine & set to =
1,000rpm, and then watched the voltmeter as I reset the breaker. =
Voltage gradually increased from the 11.7volts battery voltage to =
14.3volts that I am used to seeing in about 10 seconds. So, the VR166 =
external voltage regulator and Vans 35 amp alternator were working =
again.
Now I'm back home looking at my Z12 wiring diagram & I'm realizing a =
couple of things. I used 18awg wire to feed the circuit breaker so I =
can increase that feedline fuse to 10amps. Hopefully, this will let the =
circuit breaker trip before the fuse blows. That would make an =
overvoltage event a lot more tolerable as I could try a reset in the =
air. I see that Z-23 uses a 22awg fuse link instead of a fuse to feed =
the field coil circuit. Would that be even less likely to blow than a =
10 amp buss fuse?
Second, my engine monitor is connected to the essential bus so it =
routinely shows about a 1/2 volt difference between voltage when the =
master is on and feeding it through the isolation diodes and voltage =
when the essential bus feed is on. That means my charging voltage is =
probably 14.8volts. Do you think that is high? Should I be thinking of =
replacing the VR166 voltage regulator with one I can set lower? Might =
reduce overvoltage event frequency & put less stress on the Panasonic =
LC-RD1217P battery? I'll take the voltmeter and measure the actual =
charging voltage next time out.
Lastly, I wonder if I need to change the crowbar module. I've heard a =
lot about nusiance trips. The unit I have came pre-assembled from B&C & =
encased in black shrink tubing. It was purchased 2-21-2003. Is it =
likely to be one of the questionable ones I have heard about? What's =
the likely voltage required to trip? I seem to remember 16volts. Not =
far above 14.8volts.
Anyway, I'll increase the fuse size, measure actual charging voltage, & =
wait for any clarification Bob or others on the list can provide =
relative to the other questions.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 3
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| Subject: | Charging system failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "B Tomm" <fvalarm@rapidnet.net>
Dave,
I'm sure you will get some help here with your situation from other much
more qualified than I. I am trying to follow your description and are
wondering what the use of = is. Maybe I'm missing something here but what
does = mean?
Bevan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID
REEL
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 12:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Charging system failure
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I was flying along, 7.8 hours total so far, minding my own business, =
getting ready to do some climb testing when a blinking red light alerted =
me to low voltage. I switched the master off and the essential bus feed =
on ( wrong order by the way) & was relieved to see the system voltage = perk
up to 12.4v. I returned to Manassas without further incident but = am now
looking for a way to make the charging system more reliable. = Here's what
I found on the ground:
The alternator field coil main fuse, 7.5amp, was blown. This feeds a 5 =
amp circuit breaker which did not trip. Hypothesis: the overvoltage =
crowbar shorted the field coil circuit to ground. To test this I = replaced
the fuse, pulled the breaker, started the engine & set to = 1,000rpm, and
then watched the voltmeter as I reset the breaker. = Voltage gradually
increased from the 11.7volts battery voltage to = 14.3volts that I am used
to seeing in about 10 seconds. So, the VR166 = external voltage regulator
and Vans 35 amp alternator were working = again.
Now I'm back home looking at my Z12 wiring diagram & I'm realizing a =
couple of things. I used 18awg wire to feed the circuit breaker so I = can
increase that feedline fuse to 10amps. Hopefully, this will let the =
circuit breaker trip before the fuse blows. That would make an =
overvoltage event a lot more tolerable as I could try a reset in the = air.
I see that Z-23 uses a 22awg fuse link instead of a fuse to feed = the field
coil circuit. Would that be even less likely to blow than a = 10 amp buss
fuse?
Second, my engine monitor is connected to the essential bus so it =
routinely shows about a 1/2 volt difference between voltage when the =
master is on and feeding it through the isolation diodes and voltage = when
the essential bus feed is on. That means my charging voltage is = probably
14.8volts. Do you think that is high? Should I be thinking of = replacing
the VR166 voltage regulator with one I can set lower? Might = reduce
overvoltage event frequency & put less stress on the Panasonic = LC-RD1217P
battery? I'll take the voltmeter and measure the actual = charging voltage
next time out.
Lastly, I wonder if I need to change the crowbar module. I've heard a = lot
about nusiance trips. The unit I have came pre-assembled from B&C & =
encased in black shrink tubing. It was purchased 2-21-2003. Is it = likely
to be one of the questionable ones I have heard about? What's = the likely
voltage required to trip? I seem to remember 16volts. Not = far above
14.8volts.
Anyway, I'll increase the fuse size, measure actual charging voltage, & =
wait for any clarification Bob or others on the list can provide = relative
to the other questions.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Plane power Alternator pictures |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>Interesting. The site is a bit weak on details though. I presume that
>the experimental unit is internally regulated. I don't see how they
>provide a means of removing field excitation to disable the alternator
>in the case of a problem but that is probably just a matter of
>insufficient information on the web site.
I suspect that little module on the back sense OV with a solid state
chip and somehow opens the FIELD or all the power from the I-VR.
They are indeed internally regulated.
The little module may have a solid state relay or the I-V regulator is
modified with a relay, which is activated by that OV sense module,
to open the field.
However I have no details either. I have a call into Plane Power
and I'll see what I can learn.
>As for the versions for certified aircraft, there isn't a lot
>information there either. I guess they are just bolt-on replacement for
>existing alternators. Their point about superior output is a non-issue
>for me. I have never seen a load on any of my alternators that exceeded
>about 50% of rated capacity. Heck, on my Aztec I only hit 50% if one
>alternator is off line. The rest of the time I can barely see the 60A
>loadmeters (one per alternator) move.
The certified ones I do know are externally regulated and are bolt in.
I think there load diagram really is just to show they are stronger than
the stock one. Like you side it probably does not make a differnce.
As far as load I flew freight in Navajos and other twins, with the
hot windshield and props. I did see a little more load than you see.
With hot stuff and lights the load was high, but don't recall the exact #.
I also owned a 1958 Apache with generators (I think 23-30 amps)
and they where plenty. It all depends on your needs. In a single
engine plane w/ known ice (hot prop/windshield like a C210), with
lots of electronics, the extra power may be of use. However I don't
think 70 amps is enough. I suspect he could use the large frame
ND's to make a 130 amp unit for the high demand applications.
George
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting
at 1¢/min.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Apr 26, 2006, at 12:46 PM, DAVID REEL wrote:
>
> The alternator field coil main fuse, 7.5amp, was blown. This feeds
> a 5 =
> amp circuit breaker which did not trip.
Well, of course the fuse blew first. Why do you have a fuse and a
breaker? You don't need the fuse. But if you want redundant
protection then the fusible link is the right answer.
So, lose the fuse, install a fusible link, and go fly again.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 6
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| Subject: | ANL Current :imiter |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" <dsvs@comcast.net>
Does anyone on the list happen to know the thread size on the ANL current
limiter base that B&C sells. Mine is at my hangar and I want to order some
all metal lock nuts to use with it. Thanks. Don
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
B Tomm wrote:
> I'm sure you will get some help here with your situation
> from other much more qualified than I. I am trying to
> follow your description and are wondering what the
> use of = is. Maybe I'm missing something here but what
> does = mean?
Hi Bevan,
The = signs at the end of each line in his note are
artifacts from his E-mail client. He has it set to
send HTML, and the Matronics server didn't strip out
all the HTML properly. HTML is best left to web
pages, and not used in E-mail.
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Charging system failure |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: john@BallOfShame.com
Okay, I'll bite. My experience with fuses vs. circuit breakers is that in general
it's a race
to see which one will blow first....in the case of a short anyhow (i.e. crowbar
tripping in
this case). I agree the fuse is unnescessary (or the CB...either one), but what
am I
missing that would make it likely for the fuse to blow first?
-John Coloccia
www.ballofshame.com
On 26 Apr 2006 at 21:27, Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Well, of course the fuse blew first. Why do you have a fuse and a
> breaker? You don't need the fuse. But if you want redundant
> protection then the fusible link is the right answer.
>
> So, lose the fuse, install a fusible link, and go fly again.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
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