---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/27/06: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:46 AM - Re: ANL Current :imiter (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 2. 07:35 AM - Re: Charging system failure (Brian Lloyd) 3. 08:05 AM - Re: Charging system failure (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 08:53 AM - Re: Plane power Alternator pictures (Jekyll) 5. 09:24 AM - Canopy Latched Sensor (Joe Dubner) 6. 11:28 AM - Re: Canopy Latched Sensor (Dave Morris \) 7. 03:00 PM - Re: Canopy Latched Sensor (Brian Lloyd) 8. 03:22 PM - Re: Canopy Latched Sensor (Joe Dubner) 9. 04:20 PM - Radio noise... (Malcolm Thomson) 10. 07:37 PM - Re: Charging system failure (john@ballofshame.com) 11. 07:57 PM - Re: Charging system failure (DAVID REEL) 12. 07:59 PM - Re: Canopy Latched Sensor (john@ballofshame.com) 13. 09:02 PM - () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:46:28 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ANL Current :imiter --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:20 PM 4/26/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DonVS" > >Does anyone on the list happen to know the thread size on the ANL current >limiter base that B&C sells. Mine is at my hangar and I want to order some >all metal lock nuts to use with it. Thanks. Don 5/16-24 UNF2A Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:05 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging system failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Apr 26, 2006, at 11:03 PM, john@ballofshame.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: john@BallOfShame.com > > Okay, I'll bite. My experience with fuses vs. circuit breakers is > that in general it's a race > to see which one will blow first....in the case of a short anyhow > (i.e. crowbar tripping in > this case). I agree the fuse is unnescessary (or the CB...either > one), but what am I > missing that would make it likely for the fuse to blow first? It depends on the kind of breaker. Magnetic breakers are almost as fast as fuses but thermal breakers like the ones we have in our airplanes are *much* slower. The thermal mass of the fusible link in the fuse is a lot less than the thermal mass in the circuit breaker so it will reach its melting point much more quickly. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging system failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Agreed. The 14.8 V regulation setpoint is a bit high too. How long has this system been in place? The design deficiency for nuisance tripping issues with B&C OVM were resolved years ago. Know too that with an external regulator that shares field supply wire with the voltage sense wire, there is a potential for regulation instability. This is why modern regulator philosophies use a separate remote voltage sense lead (like the B&C regulators). The VR-166 style regulator isn't inherently evil because of the common power/sense lead but it does offer another avenue of investigation as to why your system behaved as it did. The fuse needs to come out and the fusible link needs to go in. Also, tell us where your regulator is mounted and what size wires run the pathway between bus and the regulator's "A" and "S" terminals. Bob . . . >Well, of course the fuse blew first. Why do you have a fuse and a >breaker? You don't need the fuse. But if you want redundant >protection then the fusible link is the right answer. > >So, lose the fuse, install a fusible link, and go fly again. > > >Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way >brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 >+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > >I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.6/324 - Release Date: 4/25/2006 > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.385 / Virus Database: 268 - Release Date: 4/25/2006 Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Plane power Alternator pictures From: "Jekyll" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jekyll" [quote="gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com" I suspect that little module on the back sense OV with a solid state chip and somehow opens the FIELD or all the power from the I-VR. They are indeed internally regulated. The little module may have a solid state relay or the I-V regulator is modified with a relay, which is activated by that OV sense module, to open the field. [/quote] I forgot to mention that Steve (PP) stated his internal VR is solid state and includes a crowbar. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31120#31120 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:24:26 AM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Latched Sensor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner I'm looking for a better way to implement the canopy unlatched warning system on a Long-EZ. The standard method is to use a small microswitch that responds to "canopy latched". (This is not the same as "canopy closed", which would be easy enough to implement but I want a "latched" indication.) Here's an illustration of the standard system: http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/CanopyLockMicroswitch.jpg When the canopy locking handle is pushed forward (left in the image) far enough to latch the canopy locking mechanism, the head of the screw on the handle (at the right in the image) fits in the hole on the latch and actives the microswitch through its (specially bent) lever. I'm not happy with the microswitch as it doesn't hold up well under use and wonder if any Aeroelectric Connection readers can come up with a better idea. I've searched for optical interrupters but can't find one with a gap large enough for the head of the relatively large #10 screw. I'm not familiar with any specific reflective-type optical sensors but I'm guessing that would be the way to go. Any ideas? Thanks, Joe Long-EZ 821RP Lewiston, ID ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:28 AM PST US From: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Latched Sensor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" Any two pieces of metal touching constitutes a switch. You don't have to add a microswitch to the contraption to make it work. When the screw on the handle touches the metal strip, you've got contact. Dave Morris At 11:21 AM 4/27/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner > >I'm looking for a better way to implement the canopy unlatched warning >system on a Long-EZ. The standard method is to use a small microswitch >that responds to "canopy latched". (This is not the same as "canopy >closed", which would be easy enough to implement but I want a "latched" >indication.) > >Here's an illustration of the standard system: >http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/CanopyLockMicroswitch.jpg > >When the canopy locking handle is pushed forward (left in the image) far >enough to latch the canopy locking mechanism, the head of the screw on >the handle (at the right in the image) fits in the hole on the latch and >actives the microswitch through its (specially bent) lever. > >I'm not happy with the microswitch as it doesn't hold up well under use >and wonder if any Aeroelectric Connection readers can come up with a >better idea. I've searched for optical interrupters but can't find one >with a gap large enough for the head of the relatively large #10 screw. > I'm not familiar with any specific reflective-type optical sensors but >I'm guessing that would be the way to go. > >Any ideas? > >Thanks, >Joe >Long-EZ 821RP >Lewiston, ID > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:58 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Latched Sensor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Apr 27, 2006, at 9:21 AM, Joe Dubner wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner > > > I'm looking for a better way to implement the canopy unlatched warning > system on a Long-EZ. What about a small magnet and a magnetic reed switch. You can get them as window and door sensors from your local burglar alarm company. They probably have them at Radio Shack too. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:31 PM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Latched Sensor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner Thanks, Dave but the metal-to-metal contact isn't reliable. The screw head fits loosely inside the hole in the latch and the screw's grip doesn't necessarily make solid contact with the edge of the .020" SS latch. And there's no pressure on the "contacts". Still looking for an optical solution ... -- Joe On 27-Apr-06 11:21 Dave Morris "BigD" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave Morris \"BigD\"" > > Any two pieces of metal touching constitutes a switch. You don't > have to add a microswitch to the contraption to make it work. When > the screw on the handle touches the metal strip, you've got contact. > > Dave Morris > > > At 11:21 AM 4/27/2006, you wrote: >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner >> >>I'm looking for a better way to implement the canopy unlatched warning >>system on a Long-EZ. The standard method is to use a small microswitch >>that responds to "canopy latched". (This is not the same as "canopy >>closed", which would be easy enough to implement but I want a "latched" >>indication.) >> >>Here's an illustration of the standard system: >>http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/CanopyLockMicroswitch.jpg >> >>When the canopy locking handle is pushed forward (left in the image) far >>enough to latch the canopy locking mechanism, the head of the screw on >>the handle (at the right in the image) fits in the hole on the latch and >>actives the microswitch through its (specially bent) lever. >> >>I'm not happy with the microswitch as it doesn't hold up well under use >>and wonder if any Aeroelectric Connection readers can come up with a >>better idea. I've searched for optical interrupters but can't find one >>with a gap large enough for the head of the relatively large #10 screw. >> I'm not familiar with any specific reflective-type optical sensors but >>I'm guessing that would be the way to go. >> >>Any ideas? >> >>Thanks, >>Joe >>Long-EZ 821RP >>Lewiston, ID >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:44 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Thomson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio noise... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Malcolm Thomson" I am trying to help out a friend of mine with an old Waco RNF that has unshielded mags on 125 Warner. The Becker COM Radio is picking up = ignition noise. Is there anything I can do to eliminate the noise. =20 Thanks. --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.5.0/325 - Release Date: 4/26/2006 =20 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:22 PM PST US From: john@ballofshame.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Charging system failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: john@BallOfShame.com Yes, good point. I was definitely thinking along the lines of magnetic breakers. -john On 27 Apr 2006 at 7:32, Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > On Apr 26, 2006, at 11:03 PM, john@ballofshame.com wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: john@BallOfShame.com > > > > Okay, I'll bite. My experience with fuses vs. circuit breakers is > > that in general it's a race > > to see which one will blow first....in the case of a short anyhow > > (i.e. crowbar tripping in > > this case). I agree the fuse is unnescessary (or the CB...either > > one), but what am I > > missing that would make it likely for the fuse to blow first? > > It depends on the kind of breaker. Magnetic breakers are almost as > fast as fuses but thermal breakers like the ones we have in our > airplanes are *much* slower. The thermal mass of the fusible link in > the fuse is a lot less than the thermal mass in the circuit breaker > so it will reach its melting point much more quickly. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way > brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:03 PM PST US From: "DAVID REEL" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Charging system failure --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" I'm back from the airport & have some further info about this problem. With a digital voltmeter across the battery, I read charging voltage of 15.3 volts. It was very unstable, jittering around a lot by about +/- a half a volt. Replaced the VR166 with a NAPA VR428 and now the charging voltage is pretty stable at 14.8. Jitters are gone. The Panasonic battery spec sheet calls for charging voltages from 14.5 to 14.9. I'm working on a fusible link replacement for the fuse but I'm still curious whether a 10 amp buss fuse is likely to blow before a 5 amp circuit breaker. Comparing meter readings, the drop through the isolation diode amounts to 1 volt, not the .5 volts I previously thought as the engine monitor now reads 13.8v. To answer other questions that came up, the wire size is 18awg from main bus to circuit breaker, 20awg everywhere else. The system worked for 7.8 engine hours til it tripped the crowbar which I now think worked properly. The regulator is mounted on the upper right side of the firewall in the engine compartment & depends on the firewall for it's ground return path. Dave Reel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:15 PM PST US From: john@ballofshame.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Canopy Latched Sensor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: john@BallOfShame.com An optical solution for this is difficult because the screw head won't protrude out enough. I could probably rig something up but I don't think it would be very reliable at all. A Hall effect sensor might work. You'd have to find a way to get the magnet into the screw head somehow. There are other ways to do it. Once again, though, with vibration I don't think this would be very reliable. It would take some work, anyhow, but this is better than rigging something up with LED's and photodiodes I think. One thing that might work is the put the magnet on the lever part and the sensor near the edge of the latch. Since the whole latch moves up when it latches (i.e. they're a little closer to each other when the screw's in the hole than when it's not) you may be able to tune it reliably like this. I dunno. Honestly, I would just use a switch. That microswitch setup looks pretty flaky. Personally I would make a leaf switch out of two thin pieces of metal seperated by a small plastic washer. They're bent towards each other slightly. Bolt goes in, leafs touch, and presto. Simple, light and reliable. In 5 or 10 years when some surface corrosion (or whatever) makes the switch not work anymore, replace it with another $ 0.10 worth of metal (or do it every annual if you like). just my $.02 -John Coloccia On 27 Apr 2006 at 9:21, Joe Dubner wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner > > I'm looking for a better way to implement the canopy unlatched warning > system on a Long-EZ. The standard method is to use a small microswitch > that responds to "canopy latched". (This is not the same as "canopy > closed", which would be easy enough to implement but I want a "latched" > indication.) > > Here's an illustration of the standard system: > http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/CanopyLockMicroswitch.jpg > > When the canopy locking handle is pushed forward (left in the image) far > enough to latch the canopy locking mechanism, the head of the screw on > the handle (at the right in the image) fits in the hole on the latch and > actives the microswitch through its (specially bent) lever. > > I'm not happy with the microswitch as it doesn't hold up well under use > and wonder if any Aeroelectric Connection readers can come up with a > better idea. I've searched for optical interrupters but can't find one > with a gap large enough for the head of the relatively large #10 screw. > I'm not familiar with any specific reflective-type optical sensors but > I'm guessing that would be the way to go. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > Joe > Long-EZ 821RP > Lewiston, ID > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:09 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: