---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/17/06: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: OT: Nothing to do with airplanes, but all about batteries.... (james wickert) 2. 08:12 AM - Re: RV-List: Ryton sumps (sportav8r@aol.com) 3. 08:33 AM - GARMIN GI-106A VS. MD200-306 CDI () 4. 08:35 AM - Antennas (Dan Beadle) 5. 09:33 AM - Re: Antennas (Mickey Coggins) 6. 09:33 AM - Re: Antennas (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 7. 09:56 AM - Re: Antennas (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 8. 11:25 AM - Antennas (BobsV35B@aol.com) 9. 06:10 PM - Avionics Cooling (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 10. 06:35 PM - Out of pocket for a week (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:46 AM PST US From: "james wickert" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OT: Nothing to do with airplanes, but all about batteries.... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "james wickert" Congratz Bill Great article. Jim Wickert Vision corvAir #159 > [Original Message] > From: Bill Dube > To: > Date: 5/16/2006 3:10:18 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: OT: Nothing to do with airplanes, but all about batteries.... > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > This has nothing to do directly with airplanes, but has a lot to do > with batteries that would be very good to use in airplanes. > > We traveled all the way to Joliet IL, but the event was rained out. We > got a great write-up in the Chicago Herald, however. We also enjoyed > talking shop with the other hard-core EV drag racers. > > > http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/sports/4_2_jo13_electric_s2.as p > > http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/sports/4_2_jo13_electric_s1.as p > > Electrifying Times ran a few pictures from the test session on the 26th: > > http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/a123/KillaCycle.html > > We ran 9.024 @ 139 MPH at the test session. The bike was set at a modest > power setting for these test runs. It should go even faster when we turn > it up to maximum HP. > > If you want to know how safe these particular batteries are, look at > the video on this web page: > > http://www.a123systems.com/html/tech/safety.html# > > Bill Dube' > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:10 AM PST US From: sportav8r@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: RV-List: Ryton sumps --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sportav8r@aol.com I guess if one is wired per the AeroElectric schematic for dual P-mags, that the RMSD bypass can be accomplished by use of the Ignition Maintenance Mode switch in conjunction with the progressive transfer toggles that control normal ignition operation. I have the old firmware and the Nuckolls wiring, and love the way it starts my Lycoming on the first or second blade. I'd hate to give that up for a firmware upgrade (which I need for the stumble issue) and not having a Ryton sump to fret over. -Bill B -----Original Message----- From: Joe & Jan Connell Sent: Wed, 17 May 2006 09:45:36 -0500 Subject: Fw: RV-List: Ryton sumps --> RV-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" Guys, Here is an item from E-Magair regarding composite sumps. He indicates back-firing can fracture composite sumps. I hope this info is of value. I have an Aerosport O-320 with a Slick and a P-Mag... Joe Connell Stewartville, MN RV-9A, baffle & cowling ----- Original Message ----- From: Brad Dement Sent: Monday, September 05, 2005 5:49 PM Subject: Service Update Service Update Run Mode Starting Delay: Starting September, 2005 new production units (as well as units getting = firmware updates after this time) will have a Run Mode Starting Delay = ("RMSD") feature that will prevent plug firing until the ignition sees = two (2) passes of the TDC index. At start up, this will help ventilate = the intake and exhaust chambers of accumulated vapor. Normal RMSD Operation - RMSD will engage when a "normal" start up = sequence is followed. i.e. The ignition is powered ON WHILE the key (or = other p-lead switch) is in the OFF position. (Note: This is the same = sequence used for entering Set Up Mode). Pilots then turn ON = (unground) the p-lead switch and start the engine. Bypassing the RMSD - The RMSD can be bypassed (fire on the first index = pass) simply by powering the ignition ON WHILE the key (or other p-lead = switch) is in the ON position. This will enable prop starting, if = needed. Keep in mind that bypassing RMSD will increase the possibility = of igniting fuel vapor (if present) on the "wasted" side of the spark - = see below. At the time of this writing, this is felt to be problematic = only for those customers using composite oil sumps. For them, bypassing = RMSD will risk damaging the sump. Emulating RMSD - It is also possible to emulate the RMSD manually = (without the update) if you use toggle (or similar) switches instead of = a key type ignition switch. Keeping the ignition p-lead switches = grounded (OFF) for a few revolutions during engine start, will = accomplish the same thing. Those who elect to not get the RMSD update = might use this technique when performing hot starts. See below. Background - Wasted spark systems avoid the weight, mechanical = complexity, and high altitude operating issues associated with = traditional ignition distributors. In a wasted spark system, plugs are = fired in pairs at A) the charged cylinder that's ready to ignite, as = well as B) the opposing cylinder during the exhaust stroke. This second = spark is not intended to ignite, hence the name "wasted spark". = However, when restarting an engine shortly after shut down (a hot = start), it is possible for fuel vapor to accumulate in the intake = manifold. This vapor can be ignited by what is normally the "wasted" = side of the spark during valve overlap. [Valve overlap is when intake = and exhaust valves are momentarily open at the same time.] Even so, in = the one controlled (test cell) instance where this was observed, the = event itself was rather unremarkable. It was heard only as a hard = "puff" prior to engine start. However, in the test cell instance, the = intake manifold channeled this "puff" to the sump, which was later = measured as a 15 to 20 psi pulse. This pulse cracked the light weight = composite sump installed on this particular engine. An identical = replacement sump did the same thing during a second hot start. When = replaced with a standard aluminum sump, the problem did not recur on any = subsequent (hot or cold) starts. To date, we have no other reports of sump related issues. So it's = tempting (and maybe appropriate) to narrowly define this as the only = configuration (fuel injection with side entry composite sumps) at risk, = but we don't know that with certainty. Either way, we'd rather engage = such issues with solutions, rather than require customers avoid = innovative and exciting new products. So the Run Mode Starting Delay = will be incorporated as a standard feature. It is also available as an = upgrade (free of charge) to all customers getting a firmware update = after September 1, 2005. The RMSD update is not mandatory unless you = are using, or plan to use a composite sump. NOTE: RMSD is a new = feature, and we cannot guarantee it will, in all cases, prevent ignition = on the wasted spark side if conditions are just right. In which case, a = composite sump, if used, could be damaged. We hope this update is in keeping with your expectations of E-MAG = customer service and support. As always, your questions and comments = are welcome and very much appreciated. Brad Dement E-MAG Ignitions 649 Boling Ranch Road Azle, Texas 76020 (817) 448-0555 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:46 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: GARMIN GI-106A VS. MD200-306 CDI --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 5/17/2006 Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Brinker" Hello Again Randy, I have a single GI-106A being fed selectively by either a Garmin GNS 430 or an SL-30. The change over between the two sources is done by a split lighted push button switch that activates a Northern Airborne Technologies RS 16-001 Data Switch. Each push of the push button switch changes the lighted portion of the push button switch and causes a shift from one navigation source to the other. The GI-106A has three light indications on its face. "NAV" is lighted when the SL-30 is feeding the CDI. "GPS" is lighted when the GPS portion of the GNS 430 is feeding the CDI. "VLOC" is lighted when the VOR or localizer portion of the GNS 430 is feeding the CDI. There is no back course light or indication on the GI-106A. The SL-30 does have both a BC selection and an indication on the display on the box itself. As I wrote previously I normally use the SL-30 to feed the external CDI for VOR, Localizer, or ILS approaches and the GNS 430 to provide big picture situational awareness. I am very pleased with this equipment and feel that the SL-30 is one of the most capable pieces of avionics gear in existence. OC Time: 02:04:53 PM PST US From: "Brinker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" Thanks John I thought they we're both manufactured by mid cont. but since Garmin sells both it has been somewhat confusing to me. I have sent Mid Cont. an email so maybe I can get to the bottom of this. I would like to order a cdi/gs/loc and figured one of these 2 would be my best bet since Im' also going with a sl30. And they are priced close. Randy ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:35:03 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas From: "Dan Beadle" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" I am building RV8. I am trying to figure out all the antenna placements before closing up the wings. Here is my current plan. I would appreciate feedback. * Com antenna on belly - poor reception on the ground, but only have to go short distances. Good in air because it is looking down at station. Needs to be vertical for a bit to match the polarization of the ground station. * Nav antenna in one wing. Combines GS antenna thru a spliter. Compromise over a good external antenna, but no drag. (Bob Archer) * Marker beacon antenna in other wing tip. * Transponder - little short antenna coming out the belly. * ELT - should be on top - maybe just ahead of Vert Stab. * GPS - under canopy on panel eyebrow. We are planning GNS430, Grand Rapids EFIS with GPS, Garmin XPndr and Audio Panel. Is this a good antenna match for this equipment? ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:18 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > * Com antenna on belly - poor reception on the ground, but only > have to go short distances. Good in air because it is looking down at > station. Needs to be vertical for a bit to match the polarization of > the ground station. > * Nav antenna in one wing. Combines GS antenna thru a spliter. > Compromise over a good external antenna, but no drag. (Bob Archer) > * Marker beacon antenna in other wing tip. > * Transponder - little short antenna coming out the belly. > * ELT - should be on top - maybe just ahead of Vert Stab. > * GPS - under canopy on panel eyebrow. On my RV8 I didn't have room for the ELT antenna on top of the fuselage in front of the VS. The canopy slides all the way back to the VS. I put it just under the VS like this: http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story050226171858929 The rest of your locations are pretty much the same place I have either put my antennas or plan to. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:33:18 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Dan, I have my comm and transponder antennas on the bottom of the airplane as you say. I am amazed at how well the comm antenna works. My runway is inside Grissom's class D, and I am always able to contact the tower about 3 miles away before I take off. I am having very good results with a VOR antenna under the canopy in my RV-7A. Mine is a homemade dipole with white no. 22 wire fastened to the canopy with 4 small suction cups -- a little cheesy, but free and it probably outperforms the wingtip mounted antennas. Maybe you could mount a commercial VOR/Glideslope antenna under the canopy also. I also have the GPS antenna on the glare shield under the canopy and it works very well. I am using a BNC bulkhead fitting (BNC to BNC) with the portable antenna from the back of the Garmin 295 sitting on the mounted fitting -- fitting vertical, antenna horizontal. A short (about 6 inch) piece of RG-400 connects the bottom side of the fitting to the panel mounted 295. Perhaps a little cheesy, but again -- basically free. An external ELT antenna is best, but few RVs use them. Quite a bit of drag at 200 mph! Putting the ELT antenna under the empennage fairing as some are doing is basically no antenna at all. I have mine in the baggage compartment and aimed away from metal as much as possible -- definitely a compromised location -- that wouldn't work on an 8. It should be close to the ELT, so wingtips are out. This is a hard one! I don't think it matters what antenna is used with what equipment, except in the case of GPS where the antenna has an internal amplifier. In that case I think the antenna should be the same brand as the receiver. All the passive antennas will work as well with one brand of equipment as with another brand. All IMHO, of course. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A -- Flying about 170 hours now In a message dated 5/17/2006 11:38:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Beadle" I am building RV8. I am trying to figure out all the antenna placements before closing up the wings. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Antennas From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Just a thought but to avoid a long wiring run out to a wingtip why not put the marker beacon glued to the lower cowl. I should be able to just get a 40" piece of stripped coax along there. Frank RV7a..almost painting > * Marker beacon antenna in other wing tip. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:25:40 AM PST US From: BobsV35B@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antennas --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 5/17/2006 10:38:45 A.M. Central Standard Time, Dan.Beadle@hq.inclinesoftworks.com writes: * GPS - under canopy on panel eyebrow. We are planning GNS430, Grand Rapids EFIS with GPS, Garmin XPndr and Audio Panel. Is this a good antenna match for this equipment Good Morning Dan, I might look carefully at your GPS antenna location. It would probably work acceptably, but I am not sure it would meet the requirements for IFR certification without flight testing. The guidance for antenna placement is located in an AC. I believe it is AC-138. You may not have full 360 degree coverage. As long as you have that high powered 430, it would be a shame to get less than optimum performance. You might also consider that there will be an upgrade soon that will allow the 430 to receive WAAS signals. For WAAS reception, you have to have a good line of sight to the south as the WAAS satellites are located over the equator. Heading north, that may be a problem. Just something to think about. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:39 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Cooling --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Folks, I did the test suggested by Brian Lloyd below, and was pleasantly surprised. My stack is an EIS4000, 2 Comms, 1 Xponder, 1 Audio Panel. Started at 83.0f after 15 mins 87.0, so guess I won't have to mess with no stinkin' fan....???? BTW, checked over, under, around... Thanks, Brian. Also, Fry's has a nice little 12v fan with real bearings for $11.00, 29CFM Draws .13a, 26db. 30,000 hours... *they say* Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR Whether or not you need a cooling fan depends on how you have the radios stacked in there. A single radio has all its surface area available to get rid of heat by convection and probably doesn't need extra airflow. I have my Terra radios stacked vertically, single wide, and the temperature rise is minimal because they still have plenty of surface area so I don't need a fan. When you really pack the radios in there the ratio of surface area to volume/heat goes down so you need to make what area you do have shed heat more rapidly. A fan is an asset there. You know, the military uses conduction cooling of equipment. You can do the same thing by placing a finned heat sink on the sides of your radio stack with the fins oriented vertically. Natural convection will carry away a lot of heat without the need for a fan. So, in answer to the question, "do I need a fan for my radio stack." the answer is an unqualifed, "maybe and maybe not." What matters is temperature rise. Turn on the master (use a battery charger or, better yet, a regulated power supply to keep from running the battery down), turn all the radios on, and then measure the temperature of your radio stack after about 15 minutes of operation. If the temperature rise is 5-10 degrees C, don't worry about it. If it is 30 degrees C, you definitely need to help the radios shed heat. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:29 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Out of pocket for a week --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Dr. Dee and I are packing the van so as to charge off for Prescott, AZ in the morning. We'll be gone for a week. Due back in Wichita next Wednesday night. Hope to meet some of you Saturday in Prescott! Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------