---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/03/06: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:53 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Gilles Thesee) 2. 08:18 AM - Re: 16AWG fusible link (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:44 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Brinker) 4. 10:05 AM - Second battery in a TC aircraft (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:14 AM - Hall effect replacement for shunts . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 04:46 PM - Jabiru 3300 Engine Grounds (Joe Dubner) 7. 04:54 PM - List Enclosure Support (Matt Dralle) 8. 09:23 PM - Re: Jabiru 3300 Engine Grounds (Noel Loveys) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:49 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > I've used 3M Fire Barrier 2000 with success. > > Concerning firewall penetration : > http://contrails.free.fr/engine_cpf.php > Hi all, Just updated the "Firewall" page with some compound examples and pictures : http://contrails.free.fr/engine_cpf.php Only in French for some time, I'm afraid ;-( Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:00 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 16AWG fusible link --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:11 AM 6/2/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: david2005 > >I am building an RV7 electrical system according to the Z-12 >architecture and want to make the fusible link from the aux >alternator to the starter contactor depicted in the diagram. Bob's >online article about fabricating a fusible link and the B&C kit say >that it only applies to 22 and 24AWG fusible links, whereas the Z-12 >diagrams lists a 16AWG fusible link. Can't find a resource that >explains how to do this. Help? >Thanks all The "resources" are limited to the few postings I've made on the topic. I've often suggested that while fusible links are attractive for their simplicity and robustness leading to a very low cost of ownership. However, they are NOT a general replacement for fuses/breakers and should not be considered for any applications beyond those suggested in the Z-figures without some discussion. Fusible links have fusing constants on a par with ANL style current limiters. I.e. they'll carry many times their "normal" rated current for many seconds and in this case, the link WILL emit smoke and WILL require some over-sleeve capable of preventing it's high energy operation from damaging adjacent wires. Therefore, fusible links in the z-figures are noteworthy for their scarcity. Every place they've been shown has been considered for the failure mode effects that might cause the link to open along with probability that they'll EVER be required to operate. The note on the fusible link kit was not intended to limit their fabrication to the smaller sizes. The kit is supplied with red-PIDG splices which won't accept the 12AWG/16AWG combination cited in figure Z-16 and elsewhere. I think the fiberglas/silicone sleeving will work over the 16AWG link but you'll need a yellow-PIDG (10-12AWG) splice. The sleeving will have to go inside the insulation grip on the splice as opposed to over the outside. I think the sleeving will stretch to cover the outside of a blue-PIDG at the other end. I'll use them wherever it seems to make sense but suggest caution for expanding their use beyond those applications cited in the drawings. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:10 AM PST US From: "Brinker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" Could not get Google translator to work on your website, it could not find it (: Although Babelfish came through for me the translation leaves somewhat to be desired. Nice site though and informative. Thanks for the info. Randy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilles Thesee" Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > > > >> if I am understanding your pic's correctly it >> looks as though you are using industrial type electrical connectors for >> the >> penetration and just sealing with high temp 3m and a fire sleeve. Which I >> don't see why it would not work. Even if the connectors are just >> galvanized >> steel and not stainless. >> > Randy, > > My web page is divided into 4 parts : > > - Roles of the firewall > - What's NOT to be done (IMHO) : rubber grommet, putty patch... > - What I did : home made STAINLESS steel penetrations > - What others do : brass fittings, Bob's method, grommet shields, EPM.AV > Corp' fittings > > You may really wish to use Google translator, after all ;-)) > > Regards, > Gilles Thesee > Grenoble, France > http://contrails.free.fr > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:29 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Second battery in a TC aircraft --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 10:36 AM 6/1/2006 -1000, you wrote: >Bob, > >Please note the two attached drawings (and also please excuse my style). > >I have a Republic Seabee, and I want a dual battery system with the second battery being always hot, feeding the Hot Battery Bus through a circuit breaker. The purpose of this battery is to provide power for things like bilge pumps, anchor light, clocks, and occasionally a GPS (which has an anchor dragging alarm) without creating the possibility of discharging the main starting battery. > >I have a single alternator (B&S) that I would like to use to charge both batteries through a battery charging isolator. > >I might also add a battery parallel switch to allow the hot battery to serve as a backup battery, but since it is the one that is most likely to run down, I may eliminate that concept, at least until I gain some experience. > >My question for you is: Do you see any regulatory, operational, or electrical problems with this arrangement? I think it should work well, though I don't know if the FAA has any opinions on battery isolator diodes. > >Both batteries are Odyssey PC 1200s of about 40 AH rating. Don't make this any more complicated than it needs to be. You'll have to get a 337 approval for the installation of the second battery. FAA will have no heartburn about the second battery but you'll want your 337 to touch on structural, and crash safety issues. I don't recommend diodes. Just add a second battery to the system with it's own battery contactor. You can use either or both batteries for cranking. The battery bus for the second battery can run gizmos cited in your note as long as each gizmo is under 5A. This is the largest always-hot wire the FAA blesses under their rule-of-thumb for max size of protected wire for crash safety. If you can get a fuse-block blessed . . . so much the better. Fuses are MUCH faster and therefore safer than breakers. Battery bus for second battery needs to be mounted right at the battery . . . so fuse-blocks work out well. Here's a Shop Note on dual battery installation in all metal airplanes. http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Battery_Grounds/Battery_Grounds.html Second battery is wired per Z-30 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11G.pdf I've helped a half dozen or so folks install this same system in things like C-206 on floats. We put the second battery right on the aircraft CG inside one of the floats. Kept the battery from using up fuselage volume and simplified crash safety issues. I wish I could point you to a completed 337 for guidance but all the installations I worked were for missionaries and other bush operations in S. America. One pretty much accomplishes what's necessary to their airplane without government impediments. Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:47 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hall effect replacement for shunts . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Comments/Questions: Bob, When you were at the Chesapeake VA seminar you mentioned that a Hall effect sensor could be used with your load meter in stead of the shunt. What hall effect sensor do you recommend? You might also offer them on you web site along with the loadmeter as you do with the shunts. Mark, There's a little more to it than simply hooking the sensor assembly to the instrument . . . there's some calibration to be done. One sensor of choice would be the Honeywell CSNX25 described in the data package at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Misc/Honeywell/CSXN_Series_Current_Transducers.pdf It needs a power supply and an etched circuit board along with some calibration circuitry to mate it to the instrument I have. Your suggestion is interesting. I have some plans for incorporating the instrument into another OBAM aircraft product and it would be an interesting added feature to include a current display with a hall-effect sensor. I'm meeting with some partners next Monday and will add this idea to the list of projects to be considered. Thanks! Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:03 PM PST US From: Joe Dubner Subject: AeroElectric-List: Jabiru 3300 Engine Grounds --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner I'm helping a friend by wiring his Zenith Zenair 601 with a Jabiru 3300 engine using a variation of Bob's Z-20 architecture. The documentation, at least what I've seen of it, is very sketchy on the electrical systems and I'm unable to find any reference to grounding the engine. Where have other builders connected the heavy ground braid (that carries the return current for the starter)? I know where to connect it on a Lycoming but this Jabiru is *very* different :-) And where have others connected the braids of the magnetos' P-leads? Again, I know where to connect them on Slick magnetos but what did other builders use for convenient, nearby ground studs? Thanks, Joe Joe Dubner Long-EZ 821RP Lewiston, ID http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:25 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: List Enclosure Support --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Over the years, I have resisted the urge to enable enclosure support on the Matronics Lists for a number of reasons relating to performance, capacity, capability, and security. However, its now 2006 and most everyone using email these days is on an email client that, at some level, supports the viewing and handling of enclosures. I get a fair amount of email each month from people on the various Lists asking why their posts of this or that picture didn't go through. Back quite a while ago by popular request, I enabled enclosure support for a few Lists such as the RV10-List, Kolb-List, and the Tailwind-List. 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Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:23:03 PM PST US From: "Noel Loveys" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Jabiru 3300 Engine Grounds --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Noel Loveys" The braid ensures a good ground across the engine mount. I feel you are right that it is important to have the good ground for the best operation of the starter motor and lets not forget the ground for the charging system. The best place to run the braid is from any convenient stud on the engine block (one of the popular places seems to be the engine half studs) to the frame of the plane. Make sure the areas around where the braids connect to the block and the frame are electrically clean. I've seen many that use one of the engine mount bolts for the frame side of the ground. I've also seen at least one installation where there was two braids... One on each side of the engine... Probably a bit of overkill. Noel > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Joe Dubner > Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 9:05 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Jabiru 3300 Engine Grounds > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Joe Dubner > > > I'm helping a friend by wiring his Zenith Zenair 601 with a > Jabiru 3300 > engine using a variation of Bob's Z-20 architecture. The > documentation, > at least what I've seen of it, is very sketchy on the > electrical systems > and I'm unable to find any reference to grounding the engine. > > Where have other builders connected the heavy ground braid > (that carries > the return current for the starter)? I know where to connect it on a > Lycoming but this Jabiru is *very* different :-) > > And where have others connected the braids of the magnetos' P-leads? > Again, I know where to connect them on Slick magnetos but > what did other > builders use for convenient, nearby ground studs? > > Thanks, > Joe > > Joe Dubner > Long-EZ 821RP > Lewiston, ID > http://users.lewiston.com/hth/jd/ > > > > > > > > > > > > >