AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 06/20/06


Total Messages Posted: 27



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:33 AM - Re: strobes remote power (bob noffs)
     2. 04:33 AM - Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
     3. 04:45 AM - SD-8 PM Alternator (J. Mcculley)
     4. 07:08 AM - Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation (Rogers, Bob J.)
     5. 07:10 AM - Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (Mickey Coggins)
     6. 07:31 AM - Aluminum bus bar ()
     7. 08:27 AM - Re: Aluminum bus bar (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     8. 08:30 AM - Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 09:31 AM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (Ed Holyoke)
    10. 09:53 AM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (Brinker)
    11. 11:05 AM - Re: TC vs T&B  (Bob Darrah)
    12. 11:08 AM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject) ()
    13. 12:06 PM - Re: TC vs T&B (Glaeser, Dennis A)
    14. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: TC vs T&B (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    15. 03:15 PM - Com Installation Sign Off ()
    16. 03:15 PM - Re: Z-16 OV simplification ? (Gilles Thesee)
    17. 03:56 PM - Re: Com Installation Sign Off (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    18. 04:04 PM - Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
    19. 08:45 PM - Re: Z-16 OV and miscellaneous (Gilles Thesee)
    20. 08:46 PM - More on the TC vs T&B (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    21. 08:46 PM - Re: Z-16 OV simplification ? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: IFR Requirements (required vs. good to have) (Mike)
    23. 08:47 PM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject) (Brinker)
    24. 08:48 PM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject) (Charlie England)
    25. 08:48 PM - Re: Com Installation Sign Off (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    26. 09:09 PM - More About TC vs T&B (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    27. 10:04 PM - Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject) ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:33:04 AM PST US
    From: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net>
    Subject: Re: strobes remote power
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bob noffs" <icubob@newnorth.net> hi mickey, good website. has everything i need. thanks for the info. i would like to buy the crimping tool too but i dont see using it for anything else so i will go with the complete cable sets. bob noffs ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:31 AM > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > <mick-matronics@rv8.ch> > > bob noffs wrote: >> >> hi all , i have wingtip strobes to mount that also carry nav lights >> and position lights. my power supply will be in the cabin. aeroflash >> says to shield the strobe wires. their price for a cable made up >> seems steep at $1.70 per foot. do all 3 strobe wires from the power >> pack to the wingtip need to be shielded ? if not, which should i use >> shielded for ? the paperwork with the unit doesnt say much about >> this. thanks in advance, > > Yes, these need to be shielded. These guys have shielded strobe > cable for about $1/foot: http://www.strobesnmore.com/ > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 finishing > > > do not archive > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:33:04 AM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Bob, That depends somewhat on exactly what the configuration of your antenna is. Please describe the antenna in some detail. VOR antennas from the "factory" use a balun to make the antenna balanced with respect to ground. This balun device (meaning BALanced to UNbalanced) is often a special small 1:1 transformer. A balun makes the pattern symmetrical with respect to ground, or more ideal. From antenna information given in Narco VOR manuals, it is important to be sure the antenna is horizontally polarized. Without the balun the feedline can become part of the antenna system and the polarity may no longer be purely horizontal. This would make the antenna more prone to respond to reflected signals which of course would come from a direction other than where the VOR station is located. A broadband balun which can be used for VOR (because the VOR band is between TV channels 6 and 7) can be found in almost all older TV sets which have both balanced (300 ohm twin lead) and unbalanced (75 ohm coax) antenna connections on the back. When the received signal is fairly strong, the grounded coax shield will not make any difference. When the signal is weak is when the "ideal" antenna becomes more necessary. Dan K9WEK Walton, IN RV-7A In a message dated 6/19/2006 12:40:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BRogers@fdic.gov writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@fdic.gov> I know that a VOR/GS antenna is a dipole antenna and does not need a ground plane. The RG-400 co-ax cable that connects my Nav radio to the VOR/GS antenna in my all-aluminum kit plane has a center wire and the outer shield. The shield is attached to the outer portion of the BNC connector, which mates to a female connector on the radio that touches the metal radio frame - thus the outer shield on the cable is grounded. Also, the way my antenna is currently mounted, the outer shield portion of the female BNC connector of the antenna also touches the airframe and is thus, grounded. What effect does the fact that one side of the antenna connection is grounded have on the performance of the VOR/GS antenna? I know that the antenna does not have to be grounded to work, but what happens if it is?


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:45:22 AM PST US
    From: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net>
    Subject: SD-8 PM Alternator
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "J. Mcculley" <mcculleyja@starpower.net> Bob N, Here is some in-flight data I obtained while waiting for your comments on my 5/7/06 response to your questions. The flight configuration is the same as the ground test set-up with 15k resistor at the diodes and 3k resistor across a capacitor of 56k mf. All RPM is that of the engine, with the alternator turning at 1.3 times the engine RPM. Engine RPM 600 800 900 1000 1100 1200 1800 2700 Capacitor Volts 5.98 8.47 10.4 12.61 13.31 14.4 14.42 14.42 Upon engine start with only the Master on for cranking and then immediately turned off, the voltage across the capacitor rises very slowly over several minutes to stabilize at the above listed values. As soon as the voltage across the capacitor eventually rises above 0.601, the alternator will come alive if the alternator switch is activated. If the alternator is not turned on the capacitor voltage will track the above listed values as the engine RPM is varied up or down, but there is a time lag dependent upon the size of the capacitor. An interesting observation is that the initial very slow rise after engine start to the 0.601 capacitor voltage then takes an immediate jump from 0.601 to 5.98 volts (or any above listed voltage based on the engine RPM at that moment) and thereafter never again falls below 0.601 volts unless the engine is shut down. Therefore, the alternator is always available to come on line by activating the alternator switch once the 0.601 condition has been reached and the engine has not been shut down. Tests were conducted using cockpit adjustable pots for both the resistance at the diodes as well as across the capacitor. A capacitor of only 1kmf was also tested. The diode resistor seems optimum at 10k to 15k with 3k across the capacitor. The 1kmf capacitor is too little to prevent voltage excursions up to 16 volts and probably higher if not carefully monitored. This may not be a problem since the alternator is not on line at that time, but it might be if the alternator were to be switched on during that condition, even though the regulator recovered quickly in the one instance when I did switch it on at that point. At this time, I am comfortable with the system when using the component values as listed in the first paragraph above. Some lower value capacitor could be used with good results I would think, but my guess is it probably should be at least in the ball park of 10 to 20kmf, My personal opinion at this time is that this set-up provides the SD-8 with an automatic capability to be brought on line at any time without depending on a voltage source being present such as the battery or a powered buss that the SD-8 is being switched onto. If the engine is running or being motored above 600 RPM (780 alternator RPM) the pilot can activate the alternator switch and bring power to even a dead buss if he chooses. Also, for anyone wanting an alternator power source but without a battery or starter, this will work if hand propping is the planned mode. Please review and comment when your time permits. Jim McCulley


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:08:10 AM PST US
    From: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@fdic.gov>
    Subject: VOR/GS Antenna Installation
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@fdic.gov> My antenna is a factory manufactured Comant V dipole VOR/GS antenna with an integral balun (hockey puck style). My main concern is whether the shield portion of the feed line (RG-400 cable) must be isolated from the airframe. Right now, it is connected to ground at both the antenna end and at the radio end. I do not know whether that makes a difference in the performance of the antenna/nav radio. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:30 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Bob, That depends somewhat on exactly what the configuration of your antenna is. Please describe the antenna in some detail. VOR antennas from the "factory" use a balun to make the antenna balanced with respect to ground. This balun device (meaning BALanced to UNbalanced) is often a special small 1:1 transformer. A balun makes the pattern symmetrical with respect to ground, or more ideal. From antenna information given in Narco VOR manuals, it is important to be sure the antenna is horizontally polarized. Without the balun the feedline can become part of the antenna system and the polarity may no longer be purely horizontal. This would make the antenna more prone to respond to reflected signals which of course would come from a direction other than where the VOR station is located. A broadband balun which can be used for VOR (because the VOR band is between TV channels 6 and 7) can be found in almost all older TV sets which have both balanced (300 ohm twin lead) and unbalanced (75 ohm coax) antenna connections on the back. When the received signal is fairly strong, the grounded coax shield will not make any difference. When the signal is weak is when the "ideal" antenna becomes more necessary. Dan K9WEK Walton, IN RV-7A In a message dated 6/19/2006 12:40:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BRogers@fdic.gov writes: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@fdic.gov> I know that a VOR/GS antenna is a dipole antenna and does not need a ground plane. The RG-400 co-ax cable that connects my Nav radio to the VOR/GS antenna in my all-aluminum kit plane has a center wire and the outer shield. The shield is attached to the outer portion of the BNC connector, which mates to a female connector on the radio that touches the metal radio frame - thus the outer shield on the cable is grounded. Also, the way my antenna is currently mounted, the outer shield portion of the female BNC connector of the antenna also touches the airframe and is thus, grounded. What effect does the fact that one side of the antenna connection is grounded have on the performance of the VOR/GS antenna? I know that the antenna does not have to be grounded to work, but what happens if it is?


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:10:27 AM PST US
    From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
    Subject: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights
    Hi, Has anyone considered these or something similar for cockpit lighting? http://tinyurl.com/llbjp They seem to be battery powered, and just stick onto any surface. Seems like the future... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/f34b6cb1ce42b990d861137c04dc469c3210e178.jpg


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:31:15 AM PST US
    From: <tomvelvick@cox.net>
    Subject: Aluminum bus bar
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <tomvelvick@cox.net> Hi Bob, I am relocating and rewiring the switches/circuit breakers in my wifes plane. I found that the switch breakers in the panel were all connected to power with a .025 1/2 by 6 inch aluminum bus bar. I have never seen anyone use a thin piece of aluminum before. It seems woefully inadequate to me. Just wondering how bad an installation this was and what would have happened if all of the switches were on together for a long time. Since we dont do much night flying, most of the switches are normally off. Regards, Tom Velvick


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:27:40 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Aluminum bus bar
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 10:26 AM 6/20/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <tomvelvick@cox.net> > >Hi Bob, >I am relocating and rewiring the switches/circuit breakers in my wifes >plane. I found that the switch breakers in the panel were all connected >to power with a .025 1/2 by 6 inch aluminum bus bar. I have never seen >anyone use a thin piece of aluminum before. It seems woefully inadequate >to me. Just wondering how bad an installation this was and what would >have happened if all of the switches were on together for a long >time. Since we dont do much night flying, most of the switches are >normally off. It's been done many times. Not recommended but I'm also not aware of any cases where use of aluminum versus brass or copper was the cause of any problem. Getting a gas-tight connection at the fasteners is the key irrespective of what materials are used. If you have an opportunity to swap out for brass, it wouldn't be a bad thing to do . . . Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:30:48 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: VOR/GS Antenna Installation
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 09:02 AM 6/20/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Rogers, Bob J." <BRogers@fdic.gov> > >My antenna is a factory manufactured Comant V dipole VOR/GS antenna with >an integral balun (hockey puck style). My main concern is whether the >shield portion of the feed line (RG-400 cable) must be isolated from the >airframe. Right now, it is connected to ground at both the antenna end >and at the radio end. I do not know whether that makes a difference in >the performance of the antenna/nav radio. Probably no problem but it's only necessary that the coax shield have good connection at the balun and radio connectors. If the coax shield becomes grounded to airframe at the antenna end due to the way the antenna is designed, then so be it. Comant knows what they're doing. But if I were building a cat-whisker antenna to attach to the end of a coax, I'd leave the shield free of airframe ground at the antenna end. Bob . . .


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:31:39 AM PST US
    From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop@pacbell.net> Kinda big and not dimmable. I wonder how the reusable adhesive will hold up to vibration, heat and such. I use a lip light that I bought at Wicks for about $40. The battery case is kinda clunky, but the light is perfect. The light clamps onto your headset mike boom. You can put dimmable red or white light wherever you look. Pax, Ed Holyoke Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch> wrote: Hi, Has anyone considered these or something similar for cockpit lighting? http://tinyurl.com/llbjp They seem to be battery powered, and just stick onto any surface. Seems like the future... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing Attachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/f34b6cb1ce42b990d861137c04dc469c3210e178.jpg


    Message 10


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    Time: 09:53:21 AM PST US
    From: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com> Looks like a fantastic idea if the batteries last 100 hours as stated. I was planning on going with basicly the same type of lights but wired. These should be much simpler and save some wiring time and weight. I think I will give them a try. Thanks for the link. Randy ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 9:08 AM > Hi, > > Has anyone considered these or something similar for cockpit lighting? > > http://tinyurl.com/llbjp > > They seem to be battery powered, and just stick onto > any surface. Seems like the future... > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 finishing > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Attachment: > http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/f34b6cb1ce42b990d861137c04dc469c3210e178.jpg >


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:05:13 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Darrah" <RDarrah@austin.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: TC vs T&B
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Darrah" <RDarrah@austin.rr.com> I didn't think that how they worked made much difference, the big difference is the presentation to the pilot. The turn nedle shows the direction and rate of turn. Very hard to misinterperate. If it points to the left, you are yawing (turning) to the left. If you made one with a canted gyro, it would be just as usful to the pilot. The turn coordinator looks too much like the attitude indicator. It, unlike the attitude indicator, showes which way you are turning by showing a banking airplane, while the attitude indicator showes your relation to the horizon. These presentations end up being exactly opposite to each other leading to easy misinterpratation of the turn cooridnator. I'll take the turn needle every time. New Bob (as apposed to Old Bob and the other Bob's)


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:08:38 AM PST US
    From: <rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> I am going a bit off subject here. Am going to install these inside wings and fuse: http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=84 Have clear inspection covers and am going to wire a reed switch so can inspect prior to flight. Will add LEDs if needed. Pretty nice thing for a dollar or less, has Lithium battery. Check out their LEDs, you could add angle of choice LED to this package on the cheap and stick anywhere you wish in cockpit. It has a momentary switch and a leaveitonalltheetime switch. Even sell one with black light. Also off subject is using these for interior?? : http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_30 http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_37 http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_20&products_id=102 You need to supply power, a battery, ship power, hand crank or Faraday generator will do. Ron Parigoris


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:06:00 PM PST US
    From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
    Subject: Re: TC vs T&B
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com> Hello Old Bob, I don't remember where I found the explanation I posted - I came across it when I was teaching ground school at Parks College (in the late '70s through early '90s). Saying 'one of the main reasons it was created' is undoubtedly overstatement/embellishment based on inaccurate recollection, but I clearly remember that the main point was the 'advantage' of the canted gyro being positive feedback for the pilot in a high-rate turn, which is why it stuck with me. It makes sense that it's roots are in autopilot design. Sounds like the stuff I remember was part of the justification (or sales pitch) for making it a stand-alone instrument. Dennis Glaeser ------------------------------------- Good Morning Dennis, Your explanation of the origin of the canted gyro instrumentation may have merit, but it is certainly NOT the way my ancient brain recalls the facts. I am not claiming my version is the only correct one, but here goes! <snip>...


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:28:51 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: TC vs T&B
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 6/20/2006 2:09:10 P.M. Central Standard Time, dennis.glaeser@eds.com writes: Sounds like the stuff I remember was part of the justification (or sales pitch) for making it a stand-alone instrument. Dennis Glaeser Good Afternoon Dennis, As I mentioned earlier, when the instrument first became available, it sounded like a good idea to me. It was only after a few years of observing the results that I changed my mind. Thanks for the additional information you have provided. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:15:24 PM PST US
    From: <jlundberg@cox.net>
    Subject: Com Installation Sign Off
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <jlundberg@cox.net> I am installing am ICOM A200 com in my Aeronca Champ (I am not an A&P or IA) - What is the correct documentation in the logbooks??? Can I have an A&P sign it off or do I need a repair station sign off.? John


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:15:24 PM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: Z-16 OV simplification ?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > 16v at 20A (320 watts) in a Rotax system described in Z-16. > That's a real boss-hog zener. > Bob, Thank you. Is the problem the same with a transil ? Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:56:20 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Com Installation Sign Off
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 6/20/2006 5:17:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, jlundberg@cox.net writes: I am installing am ICOM A200 com in my Aeronca Champ (I am not an A&P or IA) - What is the correct documentation in the logbooks??? Can I have an A&P sign it off or do I need a repair station sign off.? John Good Evening John, Nothing authoritative to point to, but my WAG is that you will need to file a 337 if it is a permanent installation. Are you using an external antenna and powering the set from the aircraft's electrical system or is just a handheld that is in a clip using a rubber ducky and internal batteries? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 18


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    Time: 04:04:14 PM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VOR/GS Antenna Installation
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Bob, It is probably OK to ground the shield at both ends. In any case, the recommendations of the manufacturer should be followed. If it has a balun, that should solve the problem of making both sides of the antenna equally "hot." Dan In a message dated 6/20/2006 10:10:29 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, BRogers@fdic.gov writes: My antenna is a factory manufactured Comant V dipole VOR/GS antenna with an integral balun (hockey puck style). My main concern is whether the shield portion of the feed line (RG-400 cable) must be isolated from the airframe. Right now, it is connected to ground at both the antenna end and at the radio end. I do not know whether that makes a difference in the performance of the antenna/nav radio. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 6:30 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Bob,


    Message 19


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    Time: 08:45:40 PM PST US
    From: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>
    Subject: Re: Z-16 OV and miscellaneous
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > 16v at 20A (320 watts) in a Rotax system described in Z-16. > That's a real boss-hog zener. Further, adding such a zener would > only keep the voltage from rising, it would not SHUT OFF or DISCONNECT > the offending system. > Bob, Thank you for responding. By the way, my buddy also raised an issue apropos the OV protection in figure Z16. He suggest that the sense (C) wire be connected to the capacitor and never be severed, lest the Rotax regulator should lose voltage reference and go berserk. What's your opinion ? Thanks, Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:46:15 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: More on the TC vs T&B
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 6/19/2006 12:59:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: There is a picture along with an explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_coordinator Good Morning Mickey, Thanks for that reference, but don't you think it slides rather rapidly over some very important points? It also does not address the problems of using either instrument as the prime source of information for recovery following a bout with vertigo. If we are using a turn needle, (T&B) it has nothing about it that even suggests a wing or whether or not the aircraft is level. All it does is tell us if the airplane is yawing. If it isn't yawing, it isn't turning. I think that indication is MUCH easier for a confused pilot to accept. Go out someday in an aircraft equipped with a Turn Coordinator and do a nice strong Knife Edge. Doesn't it seem rather strange to be flying that knife edge and also be looking at the turn coordinator that is showing a "Wings Level" indication? Very Confusing to my old mind! Do the same maneuver in an airplane equipped with a T&B. The T&B will be sitting in the center for the same reason the TC was showing wings level. No turns and no yaw in a properly flown knife edge. Isn't it a lot easier for even we experienced aviators to accept that the T&B is doing what it should be doing than it is to accept that the wings level indication of the TC is proper? The TC is always compromised. There is no way to determine if it is showing a roll or a yaw without using supporting information. If a T&B needle is showing an indication, the aircraft is yawing. No yaw, no turn. No turn, no graveyard spiral. If the aircraft does not turn, it will survive! Until such time as 'Lectric Bob provides us with a full time, low cost, autopilot to keep us from making excessive turning maneuvers, I vote for the T&B. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:46:23 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Z-16 OV simplification ?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 12:11 AM 6/21/2006 +0200, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee ><Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr> > > >>16v at 20A (320 watts) in a Rotax system described in Z-16. >> That's a real boss-hog zener. >> > >Bob, > >Thank you. >Is the problem the same with a transil ? Yes. TVS, Transorbs, Transil, etc are all cousins of the zener diode. They're designed to avalanche (break down) when reverse biased and at reasonably calibrated voltages. Instead of designing for accuracy and stability as voltage regulators, transient catchers are optimized for power and speed . . . but they're still linear mode gizmos. So while a 1500 watt Transorb is barely larger physically than a 1N5400 series diode that's rated to dissipate 3A at 0.7 volts indefinitely, that's just over two watts. Guess what? A 1.5KE series transient suppressor is rated for 1500 watts . . . for milliseconds. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Semiconductors/15ke.pdf The operative word for using these devices is "transient" meaning relatively short (tens of milliseconds) events. A runaway alternator is an all-day event until you get it turned off . . . linear voltage clamping devices tied to the output of alternators are not OV protection devices. They might mitigate load dumps but folks on the list have reported problematic results in tests where load dump events trashed a Transorb. OV protection needs to be discriminating (not to nuisance trip on true transient conditions) but they also need to have absolute control over the alternator in terms of shutting it off. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 22


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    Time: 08:46:35 PM PST US
    From: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: IFR Requirements (required vs. good to have)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mike" <mlas@cox.net> John, It sounds like you have given this issue some thought. What is your alternative plan when facing a stand of trees or a field of rock? I too have thought about the same issue and have not been able to come up with a better idea. One thing to remember is my primary point was that you still has to be a landing and then you stop the plane. My thoughts are to think of a formula 1 car which is strong like the Glassair. From my direct examination of composite aircraft crashes at the site, the impact into the ground is what seems to kill most of the pilots and not the stop after the landing. Most of the crashes in composite airplanes are burners, lots of little pieces, or almost no breakup damage. The burners are strait forward and mixed, but the airplanes that breakup are all high velocity impacts. Mike -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Burnaby Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2006 11:25 AM to have) Do not archive Mike, You have repeated what an experienced 4 engine water bomber pilot, in the Pacific northwest, told me when I asked him, as a newly minted pilot in 1980, "What do you do when forced down in a forest?" He said to land between two trees to shear off the wings to absorb and diminish a lot of the energy involved in the landing. I filed that away on my brain's essential bus, hoping that I never have to access it. However, since I began building my Glasair, with its one piece wing that would be housing my valuable (at least to me) bottom at an inhospitable landing site, I have wondered if the aiming between two solid objects is a prudent idea. From a lay person perspective, the Glasair wing is built hell-for-stout, and its fuelage anchor points seem less so, as their function is mainly to keep the wing attached during negative G. I have visions of landing between two trees still sitting in the wing and the inertia of the empennage, still moving at 70 kts, ruining any chance of smugness to which I might be entitled. Hopefully, I am over estimating the strength of that spar. Cheers, John -- --


    Message 23


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    Time: 08:47:35 PM PST US
    From: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com> The 12v hardwired ones are similar to the ones I have bought from http://autolumination.com/fixtures.htm they put out plenty of light for passengers and luggage bay, even thought about mounting them overhead pilot & co-pilot, but do not have a switch built into them. I think I will purchase some of the 12v Sylvania's even if I don't use them in airplane they will be handy for other ap's. I think your idea of the clear inspection cover's is very good do you mind if I steal it ? Randy ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 12:52 PM > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > > I am going a bit off subject here. > > Am going to install these inside wings and fuse: > http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=84 > Have clear inspection covers and am going to wire a reed switch so can > inspect prior to flight. Will add LEDs if needed. Pretty nice thing for a > dollar or less, has Lithium battery. > > Check out their LEDs, you could add angle of choice LED to this package on > the cheap and stick anywhere you wish in cockpit. It has a momentary > switch and a leaveitonalltheetime switch. Even sell one with black light. > > Also off subject is using these for interior?? : > http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_30 > http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_37 > http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_20&products_id=102 > You need to supply power, a battery, ship power, hand crank or Faraday > generator will do. > > Ron Parigoris > > >


    Message 24


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    Time: 08:48:42 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> > >I am going a bit off subject here. > >Am going to install these inside wings and fuse: >http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=84 >Have clear inspection covers and am going to wire a reed switch so can >inspect prior to flight. Will add LEDs if needed. Pretty nice thing for a >dollar or less, has Lithium battery. > >Check out their LEDs, you could add angle of choice LED to this package on >the cheap and stick anywhere you wish in cockpit. It has a momentary >switch and a leaveitonalltheetime switch. Even sell one with black light. > >Also off subject is using these for interior?? : >http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_30 >http://www.besthongkong.com/index.php?cPath=9_37 >http://www.besthongkong.com/product_info.php?cPath=9_20&products_id=102 >You need to supply power, a battery, ship power, hand crank or Faraday >generator will do. > >Ron Parigoris > If you're building an AL airframe, you might want to check with the kit designer before replacing the inspection covers with plexi. Some designers treat the covers as structural parts of the airframe. FWIW...


    Message 25


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    Time: 08:48:43 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Com Installation Sign Off
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 6/20/2006 5:17:17 P.M. Central Standard Time, jlundberg@cox.net writes: I am installing am ICOM A200 com in my Aeronca Champ (I am not an A&P or IA) - What is the correct documentation in the logbooks??? Can I have an A&P sign it off or do I need a repair station sign off.? John Good Evening Once again John, I guess I should have added that a 337 needs to be submitted by an IA or a repair station. An A&P can fill it out and sign for the work, but it must be approved by an A&P holding an IA or a repair station inspector before it is submitted. At least that is my often wrong interpretation of the pertinent regulations! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 26


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    Time: 09:09:09 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: More About TC vs T&B
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BobsV35B@aol.com In a message dated 6/19/2006 12:59:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: There is a picture along with an explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_coordinator Good Morning Mickey, Thanks for that reference, but don't you think it slides rather rapidly over some very important points? It also does not address the problems of using either instrument as the prime source of information for recovery following a bout with vertigo. If we are using a turn needle, (T&B) it has nothing about it that even suggests a wing or whether or not the aircraft is level. All it does is tell us if the airplane is yawing. If it isn't yawing, it isn't turning. I think that indication is MUCH easier for a confused pilot to accept. Go out someday in an aircraft equipped with a Turn Coordinator and do a nice strong Knife Edge. Doesn't it seem rather strange to be flying that knife edge and also be looking at the turn coordinator that is showing a "Wings Level" indication? Very Confusing to my old mind! Do the same maneuver in an airplane equipped with a T&B. The T&B will be sitting in the center for the same reason the TC was showing wings level. No turns and no yaw in a properly flown knife edge. Isn't it a lot easier for even we experienced aviators to accept that the T&B is doing what it should be doing than it is to accept that the wings level indication of the TC is proper? The TC is always compromised. There is no way to determine if it is showing a roll or a yaw without using supporting information. If a T&B needle is showing an indication, the aircraft is yawing. No yaw, no turn. No turn, no graveyard spiral. If the aircraft does not turn, it will survive! Until such time as 'Lectric Bob provides us with a full time, low cost, autopilot to keep us from making excessive turning maneuvers, I vote for the T&B. Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:04:24 PM PST US
    From: <rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US>
    Subject: Re: Sylvania DOT-it LED Lights (off subject)
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Hello Randy "I think your idea of the clear inspection cover's is very good do you mind if I steal it ?" Not at all. Keep in mind some plastics, may be strong (lexan) but scratch very easily. Look and test first, some have scratch resistant finish. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ One nice thing about using a reed switch, I want to be able to inspect below the baggage bay bulkhead in my 914 Europa Monowheel where there is a rats nest of fuel lines, fittings, pumps, gasculators, 1 way valves, water drains, adapters, couplers, "Y"s and a manifold. When something leaks and makes that perfect explosive mixture, turning on a reed switch will probably not give me more light than I wanted while half leaning in plane. I am sure those molecules are patient and can wait until I am complete inside the plane, till I throw some soft stuff in the baggage area, landing on top of the plastic inspection cover, electrostatic charging it, and because I did not overly tighten the screws fearing cracking the plastic,will allow the cover to slight move and discharge, thus negating the need for cabin heat! Do not archive Ron Parigoris




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