Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:42 AM - Re: Software in the cockpit (Scott Lewis)
2. 04:47 AM - Alternator failure. Info provided (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
3. 05:48 AM - Re: Wire sizes (Derek K Sington)
4. 07:19 AM - Re: Wire sizes (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
5. 07:29 AM - Re: Software in the cockpit (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
7. 08:40 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
8. 08:50 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:55 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: Avionics Stack - Single Point Grounding... (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
11. 10:14 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
12. 11:14 AM - Re: Software in the cockpit (David M.)
13. 11:16 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (David M.)
14. 12:05 PM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Brinker)
15. 12:56 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/27/06 (Lee Logan)
16. 02:33 PM - Re: regulator per z-13/8 (Frank Stringham)
17. 03:34 PM - Re: regulator per z-13/8 (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
18. 04:52 PM - 3ag panel mount fuse holder (Bill and Marsha)
19. 08:25 PM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Richard Sipp)
20. 08:25 PM - Re: Software in the cockpit (Brian Lloyd)
21. 08:28 PM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Brian Lloyd)
22. 08:56 PM - Re: 3ag panel mount fuse holder (Charlie Kuss)
23. 10:29 PM - Re: Software in the cockpit (Werner Schneider)
24. 11:05 PM - Software in the cockpit (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Software in the cockpit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> Should we shoot/sue Bill Gates? No. He is making the product that people
> seem to want. They want features more than they want reliability. Would
> I fly behind any box that has a Microsoft product running in it? Not on
> your life.
I agree completely.
You DO realise than the Garmin MX20 runs on a Windows NT Kernel, don't
you?! ;-)
Have fun,
Scott Lewis
RV-10 40172
do not archive
Message 2
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Subject: | Alternator failure. Info provided |
After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave way. Of course I was
a thousand miles from home when it did. Went running around the big city
of Denver for hours getting a replacement. Best I could come up with was
a 14870 for a 1988 Chevy Sprint. Most auto part shops did not even show
the 14684 number. Although the mount ears on the 14870 were in a
different location, as was the bat post, I was able to finagle washers
and new bolts to get her back up and flying for the ride home.
The 14684 alternator I bought from Vans for my RV-8 behaves differently
than the new 14870 Im now running. The 14684, once the field was
excited, would keep charging as long as the pulley was turning. You
could turn off the field and it would keep charging. The new 14870 will
shut off when the field is off. I have the OV protection on a contactor.
Also sometime during the alternator failure, my Lightspeed ignition blew
its 3 amp fuse. Klaus said I should have a 5 amp in there anyway.
I took the 14684 to an alternator shop for repair when I got home and he
said it looked like the stator was cooked, but he could not get any
parts for it. So its now a door stop.
Information for the group if you happen to be on the road and cant find
the 14684 locally. You can get the 14870 to work on your RV and a lyco
mount with new bolts and washers to shim for alignment.
Best
Mike Stewart
Message 3
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Derek K Sington" <derek@sington.net>
Hi Larry,
As a fellow '7 builder, how much of the 22AWG that you bought was shielded?
Many thanks,
Derek Sington.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LarryRobertHelming
Sent: 28 June 2006 02:46
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
<lhelming@sigecom.net>
Lee, I can say after having wired and completed my RV7 last year that you
will need lots of 22 AWG wire. I suggest you think of the colors you will
use. Something like red for power wire, black for ground, and yellow or
white for control. You will need some other size wires and 18 is one of
them. You will also need some heavier wire but not great lengths. In the
starter and alternator and battery cables you will need 2 and 4 awg wire.
But you will mostly need 22 AWG. I originally bought several hundred feet
and had to buy more. I wish I could tell you exactly how much of each color
you need but I can't with any accuracy. Depends a lot on what your
instruments and electrical needs are and type of plane. My system is 12V.
Best wishes. Larry in Indiana
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 2:58 PM
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: lee.logan@gulfstream.com
>
> Oldest question in the book and perhaps heresy on this site, but here goes
> anyway: Greg Richter "Aircraft Wiring for Smart People" recommends 18 and
> 22 guage wire for nearly all requirements but presupposes a 24 volt system
> per his recommendations. I'm at work and looking to order some of the
> wire
> for the next steps in my project and don't know what the equivalents would
> be in a 12 volt system. Do I step up one size or two or is there some
> other formula that applies? I have The Aeroelectric Connection at the
> hangar but I need to order some of this from here at work. Any help?
>
> Lee...
>
> Lee Logan
> Government Programs and Sales Support
> Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation
> Savannah, Georgia
>
>
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Message 4
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In a message dated 6/28/06 7:54:25 AM Central Daylight Time,
derek@sington.net writes:
> how much of the 22AWG that you bought was shielded?
>>>>
Derek, this stuff is great for those runs where you need a feed and return
going to the same place and back, such as mic and ptt. by using the shield as
the return. I can't think of an application where you might use the shield as
a
"shield", but there may be. How much you need will depend on location of
devices- I might have used less than 50' in my RV-6A.
Mark
Message 5
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Subject: | Software in the cockpit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>
>Bob K, I'm going to vehemently disagree with the assertion that we can build
>a simple autopilot and have it controlled by PocketPC type device that we
>would not rely on. Humans don't work that way. Once it is discovered that
>the PocketPC will fly the plane just dandy on a smooth air day, we start to
>trust it. Still works in minor turbulence, we trust it a little more. We
>take it into IMC and it starts to get the leans
. . . an aviate issue
>...unfortunately, we trust it
>as it flies us into cumulous granite.
. . . a navigate issue
>. Do not put any software in control of
>your airplane unless you trust it completely from the outset. I'm not
>saying a autopilot should not be done, I'm saying that software that can not
>be fully validated should not be considered.
When you're relying on any combination of hardware/software, there
needs to be a means by which failure to do the intended task can
be monitored and annunciated immediately. For the dual, simple
a/p to offer a high order of confidence (meaning that you intend
never to touch the controls in clouds) then both a/p are powered
up and providing course/steering data but only one motor is energized.
You take course data from both autopilots and compare with with
course data from a third (panel mounted nav) system. When you
say "hold course", a $1.00 processor compares three course
data values with the stored value of course-to-make-good and lights
a light should any course data value vary from preset by some
handy number, like +/-5 degrees. You also light a light when
there is disagreement between any two sources by more than
5 degrees and finally, light a light should any signal
disappear (the most likely failure mode).
This level of software sophistication is easy to validate
and separates the aviate task from the navigate task.
When you plug much more sophisticated software and hardware
in to steer one of the autopilots, the light will come on
any time the dish-washer makes a course change whereupon
you can hit the button to store a new course-to-make good
that is watched by the other two sources on the same
$1 jelly-bean processor. The same event light tells you
when the autopilot-in-command wanders into the weeds.
The segmented, fire-walled approach encourages
OBAM aircraft world development of convenience while
keeping the important hardware/software free of
inevitable variability that pops up in any development
program. The policy and procedure protocols for
software development in certified aviation have
fertilized huge organizations that are prone to
unintended consequence just because of their size
and complexity. Honeywell has become the "microsoft"
of GA software. But devout discipleship at the
Altar of Validation doesn't keep them from stepping
into the occasional gopher hole.
I'm not suggesting that "fully validated" software
is a bad or unnecessary goal to strive for . . . but
in the OBAM aircraft world, it's unlikely that were going to see
a DO-178, Level A qualification on ANY offerings.
I'll suggest that building a firewall between simple
save-your-life and the more complex but convenient,
dish-washing-silver-polishing system is easy, prudent
and greatly reduces risks.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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Subject: | Alternator failure. Info provided |
Yes the new alternator 14870 is a 55amp alternator. So was the old one.
It's a ND bought from Autozone in stock, lifetime warrantee whos receipt
is now permanently in the plane.
The ears were oriented correctly, it was the ear spacing that was off. I
run at 12 amps normally.
Damn all these alternator problems anyway. In 1800 hours of RV flying in
2 planes, this is my 5th alternator. ARGH!
A friend recommended I put the 4" pulley on. Im very tight in the cowl
with my 6cyl installation. Not sure if I could get it in there.
Mike
_____
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:46 AM
Mike
Thanks for the report. Could you tell me what brand or what auto parts
store you found your alternator at? Are these the 35 amp or 60 amp
models? FYI, you can easily "clock" the two case housing halves to get
the ears oriented like your original alternator. Many of the various
alternator part numbers differ only in how the case halve are oriented
to each other, as required by the auto manufacturer's requirements.
I'm a firm believer in using parts which are automotive based and
readily available. Your 4 hour ordeal is proof of the wisdom of this. I
like the starter shown below. It's off of a Toyota pick up truck. See
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Airboat-Starter-forTextron-Lycoming-Engin
es-149tfw-NR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26439QQihZ002QQitemZ4580254772QQ
tcZphoto
FYI for maximum alternator life, your nominal current draw from the
alternator shouldn't exceed 60% of it's rated output. Forcing a 35 amp
unit to produce 25 amps for long periods is a sure route to short life.
The rectifier diodes are heat sensitive. These items are the weak link
in most alternators. Cheapo rebuilds use cheapo diodes. Real ND, NAPA or
other name brand diodes go a long way to ensuring long life.
Charlie Kuss
After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave way. Of course I was
a thousand miles from home when it did. Went running around the big city
of Denver for hours getting a replacement. Best I could come up with was
a 14870 for a 1988 Chevy Sprint. Most auto part shops did not even show
the 14684 number. Although the mount ears on the 14870 were in a
different location, as was the bat post, I was able to finagle washers
and new bolts to get her back up and flying for the ride home.
The 14684 alternator I bought from Vans for my RV-8 behaves differently
than the new 14870 Im now running. The 14684, once the field was
excited, would keep charging as long as the pulley was turning. You
could turn off the field and it would keep charging. The new 14870 will
shut off when the field is off. I have the OV protection on a contactor.
Also sometime during the alternator failure, my Lightspeed ignition blew
its 3 amp fuse. Klaus said I should have a 5 amp in there anyway.
I took the 14684 to an alternator shop for repair when I got home and he
said it looked like the stator was cooked, but he could not get any
parts for it. So its now a door stop.
Information for the group if you happen to be on the road and cant find
the 14684 locally. You can get the 14870 to work on your RV and a lyco
mount with new bolts and washers to shim for alignment.
Best
Mike Stewart
Message 7
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Subject: | Alternator failure. Info provided |
Uh-oh...I have an Autozone 60A (Toyota Camry) alt on my 7a (not flying
yet)...Hope I did'nr make a bad decision here.
BTW...Autozone have your name in their computer so they can find you by
your phone number if you show up with a dead part a long ways from home.
Frank
Do not archive
________________________________
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:42 AM
Yes the new alternator 14870 is a 55amp alternator. So was the old one.
It's a ND bought from Autozone in stock, lifetime warrantee whos receipt
is now permanently in the plane.
The ears were oriented correctly, it was the ear spacing that was off. I
run at 12 amps normally.
Damn all these alternator problems anyway. In 1800 hours of RV flying in
2 planes, this is my 5th alternator. ARGH!
A friend recommended I put the 4" pulley on. Im very tight in the cowl
with my 6cyl installation. Not sure if I could get it in there.
Mike
________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:46 AM
Mike
Thanks for the report. Could you tell me what brand or what auto parts
store you found your alternator at? Are these the 35 amp or 60 amp
models? FYI, you can easily "clock" the two case housing halves to get
the ears oriented like your original alternator. Many of the various
alternator part numbers differ only in how the case halve are oriented
to each other, as required by the auto manufacturer's requirements.
I'm a firm believer in using parts which are automotive based and
readily available. Your 4 hour ordeal is proof of the wisdom of this. I
like the starter shown below. It's off of a Toyota pick up truck. See
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Airboat-Starter-forTextron-Lycoming-Engin
es-149tfw-NR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ26439QQihZ002QQitemZ4580254772QQ
tcZphoto
FYI for maximum alternator life, your nominal current draw from the
alternator shouldn't exceed 60% of it's rated output. Forcing a 35 amp
unit to produce 25 amps for long periods is a sure route to short life.
The rectifier diodes are heat sensitive. These items are the weak link
in most alternators. Cheapo rebuilds use cheapo diodes. Real ND, NAPA or
other name brand diodes go a long way to ensuring long life.
Charlie Kuss
After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave way. Of course I was
a thousand miles from home when it did. Went running around the big city
of Denver for hours getting a replacement. Best I could come up with was
a 14870 for a 1988 Chevy Sprint. Most auto part shops did not even show
the 14684 number. Although the mount ears on the 14870 were in a
different location, as was the bat post, I was able to finagle washers
and new bolts to get her back up and flying for the ride home.
The 14684 alternator I bought from Vans for my RV-8 behaves differently
than the new 14870 Im now running. The 14684, once the field was
excited, would keep charging as long as the pulley was turning. You
could turn off the field and it would keep charging. The new 14870 will
shut off when the field is off. I have the OV protection on a contactor.
Also sometime during the alternator failure, my Lightspeed ignition blew
its 3 amp fuse. Klaus said I should have a 5 amp in there anyway.
I took the 14684 to an alternator shop for repair when I got home and he
said it looked like the stator was cooked, but he could not get any
parts for it. So its now a door stop.
Information for the group if you happen to be on the road and cant find
the 14684 locally. You can get the 14870 to work on your RV and a lyco
mount with new bolts and washers to shim for alignment.
Best
Mike Stewart
Message 8
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Subject: | Alternator failure. Info provided |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:42 AM 6/28/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Yes the new alternator 14870 is a 55amp alternator. So was the old one.
>
>It s a ND bought from Autozone in stock, lifetime warrantee whos receipt
>is now permanently in the plane.
>
>The ears were oriented correctly, it was the ear spacing that was off. I
>run at 12 amps normally.
>
>Damn all these alternator problems anyway. In 1800 hours of RV flying in 2
>planes, this is my 5th alternator. ARGH!
>
>A friend recommended I put the 4 pulley on. Im very tight in the cowl with
>my 6cyl installation. Not sure if I could get it in there.
Why the 4" pulley? Running an alternator "fast" bears
on mechanical wear rate issues. Aside from B&C's
conclusion that "fast" alternators were at-risk
for vibration induced bearing failures (for which
they elected to carefully balance new alternators)
there are no issues I'm aware of that warrant
slowing the alternator down with a larger pulley.
Alternator speed does not bear on electrical failures
unless they are aggravated by heating where turning
faster moves more air.
Bob . . .
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Alternator failure. Info provided |
In a message dated 6/28/06 9:54:14 AM Central Daylight Time, mstewart@iss.net
writes:
> 5th alternator. ARGH!
MIke- any B&Cs in this gang of five?
Mark do not archive
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Avionics Stack - Single Point Grounding... |
John,
I think that you are doing the right thing for the wrong reason. The reaso
n
for connection the UNGROUNDED terminal of a battery first is that if you
short your wrench to ground, you won't melt your wrench down or set somethi
ng on
fire or burn yourself, etc.
When the UNGROUNDED terminal is connected, then connect the ground and if
you short your wrench to ground, nothing will happen either.
If we used positive ground in our airplanes, I would suggest that you
connect the negative terminal first.
It really doesn't matter if electrons or holes are considered "current."
Ben (Franklin) guessed wrong and all the universities still teach positive
current flow. Oh well!
Dan Hopper (EE -- retired)
RV-7A
do not archive
In a message dated 6/26/2006 11:47:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
I am no EE but in A & P school they were quite clear that electrons come
from the negative terminal. That is why the positive is always connected f
irst
and the negative terminal is connected last. The better the negative
(Ground) path =93 =9CPath of least resistance=9D
. I know a straight line between two
points. The electrons will always chose the lazy way. Still an important
idea for high quality ground connections.
John Cox - $00.02
Message 11
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Subject: | Alternator failure. Info provided |
No.
First 3 were the old vans 35 amp alt. . 79 Honda Civic was the
application as I recall.
Next 2 were the 14684 ND ones.
Mike
_____
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 11:53 AM
In a message dated 6/28/06 9:54:14 AM Central Daylight Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes:
5th alternator. ARGH!
MIke- any B&Cs in this gang of five?
Mark do not archive
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Software in the cockpit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David M." <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Very well said, Robert.
David M.
software weenie who is writing his own personal version of FADEC,
autopilot, highway-in-the-sky, and etc. :)
Of course, it's taking me a very long time.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Bob K, I'm going to vehemently disagree with the assertion that we can
>> build
>> a simple autopilot and have it controlled by PocketPC type device that we
>> would not rely on. Humans don't work that way. Once it is discovered
>> that
>> the PocketPC will fly the plane just dandy on a smooth air day, we
>> start to
>> trust it. Still works in minor turbulence, we trust it a little
>> more. We
>> take it into IMC and it starts to get the leans
>
>
> . . . an aviate issue
>
>> ...unfortunately, we trust it
>> as it flies us into cumulous granite.
>
>
> . . . a navigate issue
>
>> . Do not put any software in control of
>> your airplane unless you trust it completely from the outset. I'm not
>> saying a autopilot should not be done, I'm saying that software that
>> can not
>> be fully validated should not be considered.
>
>
> When you're relying on any combination of hardware/software, there
> needs to be a means by which failure to do the intended task can
> be monitored and annunciated immediately. For the dual, simple
> a/p to offer a high order of confidence (meaning that you intend
> <<<snip>>>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Alternator failure. Info provided |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David M." <ainut@hiwaay.net>
Over the years, I've have terrible luck with Autozone electrical items,
alternators, starters, and etc. I won't put them on my cars now.
Autozone does make good on the warranty but I hate having to replace
things multiple times. On a plane, the risk is high. Get one from a
reputable jobber. Cost is about the same.
David M.
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> Uh-oh...I have an Autozone 60A (Toyota Camry) alt on my 7a (not flying
> yet)...Hope I did'nr make a bad decision here.
>
> BTW...Autozone have your name in their computer so they can find you by
> your phone number if you show up with a dead part a long ways from home.
>
> Frank
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Alternator failure. Info provided |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brinker" <brinker@cox-internet.com>
AMEN
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:14 PM
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David M." <ainut@hiwaay.net>
>
> Over the years, I've have terrible luck with Autozone electrical items,
> alternators, starters, and etc. I won't put them on my cars now.
> Autozone does make good on the warranty but I hate having to replace
> things multiple times. On a plane, the risk is high. Get one from a
> reputable jobber. Cost is about the same.
>
> David M.
>
>
> Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
>
>> Uh-oh...I have an Autozone 60A (Toyota Camry) alt on my 7a (not flying
>> yet)...Hope I did'nr make a bad decision here.
>>
>> BTW...Autozone have your name in their computer so they can find you by
>> your phone number if you show up with a dead part a long ways from home.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 06/27/06 |
You guys have all been a great help. Thanks!!
Lee...
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: regulator per z-13/8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham@hotmail.com>
I am in the electrical install planning stage for an RV7A. I will follow the
z-13/8 model.
Now for the question???The plan suggests using a Ford regulator (VR166) on
the main alternator. What has been the good/bad/ugly of this by those that
may have used it.
Frank @ sgu and slc.........wiring..........
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: regulator per z-13/8 |
In a message dated 06/28/2006 4:37:03 PM Central Daylight Time,
fstringham@hotmail.com writes:
What has been the good/bad/ugly of this by those that
may have used it.
>>>
My $12 VR166 type regulator from Advance Auto Parts has worked perfectly for
3 years and 335 hours on my Z-11 RV-6A with B&C L-40 alternator, separate LVWM
and Bob's OVP. You can see the installation here:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7264
It's mounted on the battery holddown strap so it's near battery temp, and
painted in red crinkle paint to match the valve covers- (oooooo!)
Mark Phillips N51PW "Mojo"
Message 18
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Subject: | 3ag panel mount fuse holder |
Ive been looking for a panel mount fuse holder 3ag that will mount
from the rear of the panel like switches do. Any one know of such an
animal? Mfgr and or part #? Thanks Bill S
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Alternator failure. Info provided |
Mike:
Have a look at the new Plane Power alternators.
http://www.plane-power.com/
I have one for the 10, nice piece of work and dirt simply to wire as
well as a bolt on for the 540. Integrated regulator and overvoltage
protection.
Frogman
----- Original Message -----
From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator failure. Info provided
After 250 hours my 14684 ND alternator finally gave way. Of course I
was a thousand miles from home when it did. Went running around the big
city of Denver for hours getting a replacement. Best I could come up
with was a 14870 for a 1988 Chevy Sprint. Most auto part shops did not
even show the 14684 number. Although the mount ears on the 14870 were in
a different location, as was the bat post, I was able to finagle washers
and new bolts to get her back up and flying for the ride home.
The 14684 alternator I bought from Vans for my RV-8 behaves
differently than the new 14870 Im now running. The 14684, once the field
was excited, would keep charging as long as the pulley was turning. You
could turn off the field and it would keep charging. The new 14870 will
shut off when the field is off. I have the OV protection on a contactor.
Also sometime during the alternator failure, my Lightspeed ignition blew
its 3 amp fuse. Klaus said I should have a 5 amp in there anyway.
I took the 14684 to an alternator shop for repair when I got home and
he said it looked like the stator was cooked, but he could not get any
parts for it. So its now a door stop.
Information for the group if you happen to be on the road and cant
find the 14684 locally. You can get the 14870 to work on your RV and a
lyco mount with new bolts and washers to shim for alignment.
Best
Mike Stewart
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Software in the cockpit |
On Jun 28, 2006, at 5:32 AM, Scott Lewis wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au>
>
> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>> Should we shoot/sue Bill Gates? No. He is making the product that
>> people seem to want. They want features more than they want
>> reliability. Would I fly behind any box that has a Microsoft
>> product running in it? Not on your life.
>
> I agree completely.
>
> You DO realise than the Garmin MX20 runs on a Windows NT Kernel,
> don't you?! ;-)
Damn. No chance of buying one of those then.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
=97 Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Alternator failure. Info provided |
On Jun 28, 2006, at 1:06 PM, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
> No.
>
> First 3 were the old vans 35 amp alt. . 79 Honda Civic was the
> application as I recall.
>
> Next 2 were the 14684 ND ones.
So, in terms of time and trouble, do you think that maybe the B&C
alternator and controller would be cheaper in the long run?
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
=97 Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: 3ag panel mount fuse holder |
Bill,
Check out this new fuse block from Bussman. It is physically the
same size as the older 10 fuse units, but holds 20 fuses. It mounts
from the rear with 4 #8 screws. All the wiring exits the rear as
well. It comes with a nice cover and it is of a "split bus" design,
so you can use one block for both main and essential buses. See
attached photos for comparison. I bought mine from MIH. He gives you
the block, an assortment of connectors and the connector removal
tool. Great guy to deal with.
http://www.mihdirect.biz/
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A cockpit wiring
>
> Ive been looking for a panel mount fuse holder 3ag that will mount
> from the rear of the panel like switches do. Any one know of such
> an animal? Mfgr and or part #? Thanks Bill S
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Software in the cockpit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
It's true,
but it is the Windows Kernel only without any gimmicks like Windows and
not overloaded with all this 1 million function which have bugs to the
end of the road.
The kernel (I thinks it's even 3.51) is quite stable as it has only
basic functionality and it is tested out also very well as well as used
in many other processor driven parts. What is full of bugs is the
overhead put on top, so I would (even if I'm not a Gates fan) trust on
that product, as well as it was done from Apollo which have a very good
reputation.
br Werner (however only my 0.02$)
Brian Lloyd wrote:
>
> On Jun 28, 2006, at 5:32 AM, Scott Lewis wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Scott Lewis <rv10@tpg.com.au
>> <mailto:rv10@tpg.com.au>>
>>
>> Brian Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>> Should we shoot/sue Bill Gates? No. He is making the product that
>>> people seem to want. They want features more than they want
>>> reliability. Would I fly behind any box that has a Microsoft product
>>> running in it? Not on your life.
>>
>>
>> I agree completely.
>>
>> You DO realise than the Garmin MX20 runs on a Windows NT Kernel,
>> don't you?! ;-)
>
>
> Damn. No chance of buying one of those then.
>
>
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
>
> I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
> Antoine de Saint-Exupry
>
>
Message 24
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Subject: | Software in the cockpit |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
While I agree that software can be made more robust and less "risky" using
DO-178B level A style processes, software is still software, there are just
too many variables in all but the most simple systems for there not to be
defects present when they shoot the engineers and go into production. That
doesn't necessarily mean the software is unsafe but it's not like the "good
old days" of mechanical analog equipment that could be characterized
completely with every nuance documented (software defects crop up over time
and it often takes a specific "line up" of the planets before the problem
rears its ugly head:-). In the instrument panel I built for my RV-6A I
installed a Dynon EFIS D-10 as my primary instrument with old style steam
gauge Airspeed, Turn Coordinator and Altimeter for backup and cross check.
My philosophy on this panel was to add some basic steam gauges as back-up
because I want to be able to fly the bird IFR in a pinch and am not totally
comfortable relying on a software driven instrument exclusively.
As a software safety engineer with a major aerospace company, I can tell you
the kinds of things that go haywire in software systems are numerous. No
matter how much attention you pay to development and coding or how much
testing you do, things still show up long after certification when you least
expect. My boss found that out first hand a few months ago when he turned
the key on his Mercedes SLK 320 sports car and the software controlled
throttle immediately went to wide open. The car jumped 15 feet and then the
computer shut down the whole works, after which the car would not run at
all. Luckily it was after hours in the company parking lot and there were
no cars or people near by but he just cringes at the thought of this
happening on a busy street or a mall parking lot. Needless to say, he
traded the car in almost immediately. NEVER, EVER buy a car with a computer
controlled throttle. I think the car companies that embrace this set up
(likely just for the "Gee Whiz" factor and bragging rights) are going to be
very, very sorry, no matter how much DO-178B Level A development they do.
Their trial lawyers are going to be very busy defending that decision for
decades.)
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Wiring the "beast"
_________________________Original Message _____________________________
Ernest's points about mission-critical applications (and a PFD is a
mission-critical application in my book) are well taken. There are ways to
develop software so as to make it more reliable and less prone to undesired
interactions between modules. One of the more successful is to ensure that
the software is simple enough that you know all the inputs, all the outputs,
and all the possible paths through the code. This makes testing a
closed-ended process. If you want a new feature, find a way to isolate it
from what you already have so that you minimize any possible interaction.
Putting it in a separate box with tight controls over what gets in our out
is not a
bad idea.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
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