---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/03/06: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:39 AM - Re: Sporty's, James, & Paintucation Videos for sale. (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 2. 10:27 AM - Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (B&C value reliability) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (B&C value reliability) (Brian Lloyd) 5. 10:09 PM - Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor and Offset... (Greg Campbell) 6. 10:27 PM - Re: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor (Ron Shannon) 7. 11:01 PM - Re: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor and Offset... (Carl Morgan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:23 AM PST US From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Sporty's, James, & Paintucation Videos for sale. Thanks to everyone that had interest in the videos. They are all gone except: - Sporty's Instrument Proficiency Check DVD for $20 For everyone that was interested in the Paintucation videos, I can tell you if you were to by only one of them from the Paintucation website, get the Xtreme Detailing video. It covers probably 75% of what is in all the other videos, just in less detail. Then if you want more detail in a specific area you can go back and order the more detailed video. Thanks again! Michael Sausen do not archive ________________________________ Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 7:43 PM aeroelectric-list@matronics.com The James videos are gone as are the Sporty's Flight Review and the Sporty's Airspace and Weather (thanks Dean and DJ). I decided to break out the Paintucation videos so you can pick and choose. So here is what I still have: - Sporty's Instrument Proficiency Check DVD for $20 - Paintucation's Paint Your Own Car DVD for $25 - Paintucation's Color Sanding and Buffing DVD for $25 - Paintucation's Metal Prep & Rust Repair DVD for $25 - Paintucation's Body Shop Basics! DVD for $25 - Paintucation's Xtreme Detailing! DVD for $25 Thanks again. Not trying to SPAM the list, I really hope someone gets as much use out of these as I did! I really liked the Paintucation videos, very well done. I'll throw them on eBay after the holidays if I don't get any other bites. Michael Sausen Do Not Archive ________________________________ Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:28 AM 'aeroelectric-list@matronics.com' Guys & gals, I'm going through my stuff as I get ready to move from TX to WI and have some Sporty's, Sam James, and Paintucation DVD's I don't need. They are: - Instrument Proficiency Check DVD $20 http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&Product_ID=6680 - Flight Review DVD $30 http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&Product_ID=6487 - Airspace & Weather Format Review DVD $20 http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&Product_ID=6023 - Pantucation 5 DVD Set $140 http://www.paintucation.com/ - James Aircraft - Aircraft Painting 101 DVD $15 http://www.buildersbooks.com/Painting101.htm?36,57 - James Aircraft - Fiberglass 101 DVD $15 http://www.buildersbooks.com/fiberglass_101.htm?29,49 Shipping's included via USPS. Contact me off list if anyone is interested. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive Recent RV-10 Build Activity ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (B&C value reliability) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" value reliability) Sender: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com X-Antivirus: AVG for E-mail 7.1.394 [268.9.2/372] You wrote: There have been many many many B&C alternator and voltage regulator failures. Don't take my word on it just check these archives. It happens. "many many" . . . I forget. Is that out of the Furlong-Stone-Fortnight measurement system? What kinds of failures? Did any result in uncontrolled runaways that damaged other systems in the aircraft? I've shared my personal observations of B&C failure rates and reasons in the past . . . but I've not had any first-hand experience with B&C in several years. Perhaps you have more recent observations to share? Have B&C's fortunes taken a sudden dive into the crapper? I already wrote that there are failures in my post. In fact one acquaintance got tired of the B&C voltage regulator that burned out and replaced it with a $9.00 Ford VR. "Got tired"???? Multiple failures? B&C was unwilling to deduce root cause and fix them? Your assertions paint an ominous picture of B&C quality and/or business practices. Can you enlighten us further? If you know of a B&C customer that doesn't think they got their money's worth from B&C, please have them get in touch with me. My long standing promise to drive up to Newton and jump in the "middle of Bill's lap" is still operating. I can point to 1000's of other ND's sold by Van's aircraft and Niagara that have gone and are still are going for over a 1000 hours with out problems. 1000 trouble free installations of ANY other brand doesn't make B&C's "bad" or the 1,000 others "good." The bottom line is that the risks for (1) failure to perform task and (2) failure that migrates to other systems are not zero irrespective of what product(s) one chooses to install. "Goodness" is a customer perception issue. Get me in touch with a B&C customer who thinks he got B&C "badness" in either hardware or service. Mike and his multi failures is a mystery and don't know any details. What alternator? Where did he buy it? How is it installed? Wiring? Belt? Does he cycle the alternator on and off under load? Does he have cooling air going to it? Did he use the warning light Is the battery in good condition? This is not going to be productive. You are just two people which is not a statistically meaningful sample, BUT it is a data point and you and MIKE have two differnt outcomes that we might make a conclusion. However I bet there are several 1000 more stock ND's flying than B&C's. Even if we hear from the Mike's less than good results there are many more that have the bragging rights you have. However for the $600-$700 you would expect it to be better by a factor of 3 or 4. A WAG. The risks are still not zero . . . and perhaps B&C IS better by a factor of 3 or 4. What measure tells you they are NOT? May I humbly request CGS units of measurement? Having dropped out of college I missed the course on FSF units. Please forgive my ignorance. I will concede that quality of some ND aftermarket and rebuilt Alts is an issue. I do think the vendor Van had used in the past was not the best. Well now they changed their product. The #14684 is a new aftermarket unit of a differnt (better?) brand. I think the quality issue will get better. They also added the Plane Power units as well. To be fair to Van's a/c, builders do some not so smart things with their alternator and incorrectly wire them. The classic was the O/V module (crow bar) and b-lead relay that people intentionally tripped while the alternator was running. Many of the Alts where fried. They are not designed to be disconnected from the battery while running. I've had customers tell me of Figure Z-24 installations have halted a runaway alternator and protected the airplane. You're stirring two separate issues into the same pot. (1) Alternator system ability to do intended task (service life/reliability) and . . (2) Alternator system failure mode effects and features that prevent a runaway alternator from getting loose (dark-n-stormy night lights up really bright . . . for awhile). The same with cycling the ALT switch, which as you know I have said many times is a bad idea. I guess you can say your B&C is more tolerant of misuse? How mis-use? Somewhere on the order of 300,000 light aircraft have been built with alternator or generator control switches. None of those systems I've been associated with had any prohibitions or cautions about turning the alternator or generator on or off at any time under any conditions including B&C products. Perhaps your experience is different. I object to a characterization of "misuse". Being able to control any aircraft alternator or generator on airplanes from 150's to Hawkers at will under any conditions is a DESIGN GOAL that has been achieved by all the folks I work with. That's not "misuse" but meeting the specifications for the design. Please expand your assertions that the design goal was a "bad idea" with the supporting simple-ideas. I will agree that the automotive IR alternators as- supplied are not plug-n-play into the aircraft venue without addressing new system integration problems . . . but to hat-dance around integration issues by labeling root cause of a failure as "misuse" and then asserting that any-time/any-conditions control as a design goal is a "bad idea" is specious. Nothing against B&C, except the price. Again B&C is great but to claim near perfection is just silly. I think B&C is being miss quoted. Perhaps I missed it. What was the quotation? And what have you observed that argues against any B&C customer's perceptions of value? I know if you ask pointed questions they will tell you the reasons parts have come back in the past. However if you had a product and reputation you would protect that. Are you suggesting that they're lying? What conversations have you had with them that would indicate this? Inquiring minds thirst for understanding. ----- from another post -------- I am sure B&C sells a nice product. I think B&C might(?) achieve better reliability, but........ There is NO DATA to back that up any claim that B&C has superior reliability. I know B&C and Bob N. have a strong opinions but no real data. I have more data than you sir. I spent a lot of time in the employ of B&C in the early years and worked their booth at OSH for 12 years running. I am telling you of my first-hand knowledge that FEW (meaning perhaps 1 return per month) alternators would come back for any attention. All suffered some form of user induced damage. I never saw an alternator come back for failure or wear-out. In years since, I'm aware of one alternator that came back for overhaul when the engine was being overhauled too. The brushes were worn beyond serviceability. I think the alternator was still working . . . but I'll check on that. The engine had 2000+ hours on it. We've had controllers get returned too. Most needed owner induce damage repaired. Occasionally we'd have one go inop for a solder joint but there's been very few reasons to make changes in design since Voyager flew the first LR-1's up and down the coast of California. Return rates for any reason have been on the order of 1% per year for the total fleet. I'll see what the latest experience base is for alternator returns. I've not updated in over a year. But do I understand you correctly George? Are you asserting that whatever I share with the group is to be mistrusted? To say ZERO failures is disingenuous at best, with all do respect to B&C, but when you sell a product that cost 3 or 4 times as much I guess you have to distinguish yourself. However you have to be intellectually honest and admit that things fail and there is NO guarantee, regardless of the price paid. If the alternator cited came back working but worn, then to the best of my first hand knowledge, the failure rates for other than external damage have thus far been zero. Nobody is guaranteeing anything . . . but B&C's service history is a whole lot better that the competition in place when their products were introduced. That was 20 years ago. Capabilities of the current contenders haven't had enough time in the marketplace to claim anything in comparison with B&C. I know of several B&C products to fail both first hand and second hand, just check the archives. Give me dates. I've been on this List about as long as anybody. I cannot recall any discussions on un-resolved B&C hardware issues. You're claiming posted incidents to substantiate your learned advice just as I have for other cases in times past. You pasted me with that "no data" mantra, how come it applies to my arguments and not to yours? I'm not going to spend time looking. You tell us where to find them. There are many B&C failures that don't make news, web fourms or even get reported to B&C. There's that "many" again. If these terrible experiences by B&C customers are un-reported even to B&C, how is it that you know about them? How and when did we arrive at a condition in OBAM aviation that customers who pay good money for expensive hardware are going to shrug off any opportunity for getting their money back on bad product? Until you produce names times and places for B&C to investigate and rectify, your assertion as to shortcomings of their products and/or business practice is suspect. They are experimental and these is no tracking of reliability. I am sure B&C is aware of failures . . . You're telling us that B&C has lied to me when I've inquired about failures? Please cite your supporting evidence. and Bob N. has been somewhat forthright . . . Just "somewhat"????? In what manner and at what time did you find my explanations lacking? Pleased be specific. I've been mistaken and sincerely appreciated correction but I've NEVER deliberately cut corners in my explanations about anything to anybody. If you had my permission to insult me, I could get really upset about your statement . . . but nobody has that permission. . . . with problems regarding the voltage regulator that has lead to improvements. There are still issues. Name them. . . . If you're aware of outstanding "issues" then speak up. I know exactly what, when and why changes were made in the LR-series devices. Let us compare notes. Please state which of those changes casts doubt on either the quality our products or integrity of our companies. You're either citing facts that can be substantiated or your blowing blue smoke. Neither I, nor B&C nor our potential customers need to take notice of your counter-marketing rhetoric until we've have had an opportunity to address specific grievances or shortcomings. You have to include the alternator and regulator as a whole system when comparing it to a ND unit with integral Voltage regulator. B&C alternators are made 98% from ND parts or clone aftermarket ND parts. They DO anodize and claim . . . You doubt the claim? . . . . to balance it within a hair on Nat's bee-hind, but the benefit of this blue printing is a raging debate to be had another time. You'll get no "rage" from me and I doubt from B&C either. It's not worth debating unless you have an explanation supported by simple-ideas as to how it's a no-value-added thing to do. I can imagine there's a positive, but how much affect on reliability I don't know. Then of what value is it to express your doubts for the claim? First you "blow the smoke" and then say "I don't know". How are readers of this discussion to make a considered judgment of your advice? I can say if any alternator is bolted to a wild shaking Lycoming, producing endless vibrations and 50 G shaking at start and shut down like a wet dog, it's going for a WILD RIDE anyway. It is like measuring it with a microscope and cutting with an AX. Same with balance, does it matter? May Be? Stock alternators are NOT without some balance. There are million and millions of ND alternators (stock) running 24 hours, 7 days, year after year WORLD wide in cars and industrial equip with extreme reliability under demanding conditions. Both my Acura's have ND alternators. One is at 130K with no issue and the other 185K, with a combined +24 years of combined use. But those are not Lycomings and your cars don't cruise the alternators at over 10,000 rpm. You're comparing apples to plums and then buying pears. You don't design, build, or sell anything. You don't have a dependence on the happy customer. You've cited no personal experience with the company and products you're down-grading. Your advice lacks substance. Why debate it? Balancing is a feature of their product. Can you can cite a B&C bearing failure attributable to ANY decipherable root cause OTHER than balance? If not, it's just as credible to assign bearing longevity to bearing quality, care in assembly, balancing, a sprinkling of pixie dust or any combination of the above. Frankly, if their service history on LYCOMINGS in OBAM aircraft continues at the present pace, I think it matters not what manufacturing features are cited in the marketing hype . . . For a dozen years I worked in the booth at OSH and when asked "Whats the warranty" I said, "No unhappy customers." Bill was standing right beside be me when I said it. I've had no reason presented to me by an unhappy customer to prove Bill a fraud or me as mis-informed. Can you enlighten us in this regard? The issue with many ND alternators builders use is the fact they came from a supplier selling less than great aftermarket NON nippondenso units. As this 15-18 year old design gets older, you will only find aftermarket alternators. The good news is there are good aftermarket parts. The bad news is there are BAD ones as well. Aftermarket ND parts are make in Taiwan and China by 4 or more big companies. Not all are of the same quality. Not all aftermarket parts are the same. The same applies to re-builds at the Auto Zone or Pep-Boys. At least many offer a good warranty. The bad news is that chain of auto parts store may not be in your area when doing a cross country and it fails. If you can't go to the same store, you can't take advantage of the warranty replacement. I suspect if Auto-Parts-R-Us gets wind its on a plane, they may protest and deny your warranty claim anyway. If a B&C regulator or alternator fails, it is a custom alternator that only B&C can really work on. There is something to be said with over the counter auto parts. But who NEEDS parts to work on a B&C alternator? Who was told that B&C alternators only work with B&C controllers? There are diagrams in the 'Connection that illustrate alternate controller options designed to enhance the customer's purchasing experience with the offerings of both B&C and the 'Connection. I am sure B&C is good, but not as great as their hype. "Good" . . . "not as great" . . . please cite in CGS units . . . But in spite of "good", are we to understand that Bill lies and Bob is less than completely forthcoming? If you read B&C's web site it is full of hyperbole and rhetoric. I read the B&C sales pitch and it is so strongly worded, like a novel, One dark and stormy night stories, they just turn me off. It plays on emotion not facts. I got a cold sweat and thought I was going to die of an electrical failure sitting in my office in front to my PC. It's a great sales pitch but it's overstated. The owner or B&C is a super nice guy and think he believes in his product. This is just my opinion about what I think of sale's pitches that play on emotion not the product. If one chooses to join a hype-slinging match between B&C and Plane Power's sites, there's plenty of stretched semantics to go around. See: http://www.plane-power.com/Comparing_Amps.htm This alternator output curve doesn't state pulley sizes nor test conditions under which the two curves are plotted. It implies that Prestolite is fraudulent in their product labeling. But the two curves are parallel to each other . . . do you suppose if one adjusted the Prestolite pulley down in size that the curves would lay on top of each other? If I were to publish curves like this, any statement made concerning the value of the data would be supported by a test report. Let us consider this paragraph from Plane Power's website: ----------------------- The full line of Plane-Power alternators not only give you unprecedented choice, but also provide a vastly improved product. Years of research & development have gone into making Plane-Power alternators: * Generate substantially higher power at lower engine RPM, * Generate significantly less heat while generating rated power, * Generate rated power at typical aircraft cruise RPM (believe it or not, your current alternator does not!) * Generate more power at higher altitudes (all testing to 28,000'!) * Weigh up to four pounds less , and * Perform much more reliably than comparable OEM models ------------------------ Gee, lookit al those un-quantified adjectives! Oh, yeah, those must be FSF units of measure. But who are they comparing themselves to? Obviously not B&C alternators. Here's an interesting bit: See: http://www.plane-power.com/AL12_50C.htm If I read the webpage correctly, this alternator is CAPABLE of 70A of output but with the following modifier: ---------------- *Aircraft electrical system will be limited by existing wiring and output breaker not to exceed 50 amps. The Plane-Power alternator can produce all 70 amps if proper size wiring and circuit breaker is installed and approved. ---------------- Hmmm . . . how does the downsizing of b-lead and b-lead breaker de-rate the alternator? Sounds to me like a set-up for nuisance tripping. If this is a 70A machine, it needs wire and b-lead protection sized for that capability IRRESPECTIVE of what the original installation called for. On a cost to benefit analysis I doubt you will see a cost benefit from the B&C in your or anyone's lifetime. My only gripe with B&C is the outrageous price they charge. If you want an alternator kit check out Plane Power. Gripe all you want . . . and please, don't buy a B&C or 'Connection product based on anything Bill or I has to say about it. And don't buy it if you've found one of our customers that has been left with a hunk of junk because Bill or I has told him to "lump it." If you DO buy our products, know that we both strive to give fair value. If you bring a product back for any reason, we both expect to know the specifics of your problem and we're both ready to make it right with you. If the marketing techniques fraudulently drove your choice to purchase the product and you're dissatisfied with value-received, then it's a simple matter to cite your experiences, voice your displeasure and collect your refund. I've had two or three folks write over the years to say that the 'Connection was not what they expected whereupon they got their money back . . . and were told to keep the book. It just doesn't make sense to be less accommodating with a customer. No news travels faster than bad news and I strive to keep bad news from happening. I'm sure you understand how I might get my shorts bunched by fabricated bad news. I'll suggest that any claims about me and the 'Connection contrary to demonstrated policy are fabrications. I'll stand corrected about Bill if I talk to the B&C customer that got "shafted". I think if you buy a good quality after-market stock ND alternator and install and operate it properly, you can achieve the same reliability as any DESIGNER brand alternator. Proper operation is don't cycle the ALT switch with the engine turning and don't overload it. Hmmm . . . last time I ran an alternator, it was inherently current limited . . . if it's cooled sufficiently to run at 100% of rated load, then you can't "overload" it. Proper installation is install the warning light . . . I presume your talking about the warning light common to internally regulated alternators. Have you seen a schematic of how this light functions? The schematic I've seen shows that this feature is not worthy of name for aircraft use. But if you have a schematic that shows something different, we'd all be pleased and relived to know that someone has done due-diligence in rectifying the deficiency. . . . and provide heat shield and cooling air. Both Plane Power and B&C offer value but I think of the two, Plane Power has the value edge: - High Altitude brushes High altitude brushes in alternators is blue smoke. Slip ring service at 3A is a whole different animal than commutator service at 30 amps plus . . . Further, there are no RV's I'm aware of that cruise at 25,000 feet and up. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/BrushesForAircraft.pdf - Proper Fan cooling direction B&C's go the wrong way? - Additional O/V protection (elegant**) (** additional OV is integrated not an ADD on B-lead relay) Hmmm . . . I have postings you've made stating that IR alternators didn't need ov protection. Now you say the addition is "elegant". Have you seen a schematic of this system? And what does the b-lead contactor ov system have to do with B&C's alternators and regulators? The B-lead disconnect contactor was a system integration solution published in the 'Connection for adding OV protection to an automotive alternator without getting inside the alternator to modify it. This has nothing to do with B&C's products. Keep in mind too that the B&C alternator controller has LV warning built . . . which reduces the delta-dollars of Plane-Power over B&C by $60 or so. If one chooses a 'Ford' regulator and external OV protection with the B&C alternator, then it's less expensive than Plane Power. - High Quality installation hardware ($375) B&C's installation hardware is not high quality? And this costs extra? Gee, B&C's alternators come with the mounting hardware. See: http://bandc.biz/L60desc.html Does this mean folks should steer clear of Plane Power? Don't see why. Should folks steer clear of B&C because of your un-substantiated assertions? Give us a list of shafted customers who were lied to by Bill or misinformed/ lied to by me. Bottom line: Does a product deliver what the customer wants for his project and does he get honorable support from the supplier when things are not going right? Tell us where B&C (or the 'Connection) has fallen short of this time honored free-enterprise recipe for success. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:24:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator failure. Info provided --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:45 AM 7/1/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Well, I am ready to present a question that I have not seen presented and >wonder just why the great minds of aero-elec have not asked it already. > >With all the concern about shutting down a runaway alternator and the fact >that IR alts. cannot be controlled in that way, why couldn't we setup a >switch (heavy duty one mind you) that we could throw in the event of the >OV that would just ground the alt. output to the plane's frame or ground >or have some tremendus load present like a hundred light bulbs that got >switched on to absorb the over load of electrons. I suppose we could also >consider a knife that could be moved out into the path of the alt. belt to >cut it off to cause the alt. to quit spinning. Larry in Indiana Don't worry about it. There's a system under development that's easy to add on to any existing system that provides the any-time/any-conditions absolute control over a stock automotive alternator. The risks for not having it right now are low. If you want OV protection now, you can install the original Z-24 configuration knowing that the ultimate solution will use the b-lead contactor and alternator control switch. The straight transorb approach hypothesized on the last figure of page 4 will not work. We've got a plan-E . . . or is it "F" . . . anyhow, the solution will not be difficult or expensive. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Alternator_Failures.pdf Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:09 PM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator failure. Info provided (B&C value reliability) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Jul 3, 2006, at 1:20 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > Bottom line: Does a product deliver what the customer wants > for his project and does he get honorable support from the > supplier when things are not going right? Tell us where B&C > (or the 'Connection) has fallen short of this time honored > free-enterprise recipe for success. You know George, I have spent a fair bit of time talking with Bill in person at OSH and on the phone. I have looked at his products and I have been impressed with the quality. (I used to design and build mission-critical computer networking devices and have a bit of a clue on how to build and support high-quality products.) I also understand quality support from competent people. B&C provides quality support from competent people who truly understand their product. As I said, I will be installing a B&C alternator in my CJ6A for two reasons: 1. I don't think anyone makes a better product at any price; 2. it is a bolt-on solution for the M14P engine (which shakes a good deal more than any Lycoming). I expect that the B&C alternator will make it to TBO even under aerobatic conditions. But it takes all kinds to make a horse race. I know which horse I plan to put my money on. And I sure do get tired of hearing people try to sell one product by running down its competitor. It is one thing to show how your product is better but a different thing to use FUD to try to scare people away from a competing product. I am sure Plane-Power and ND can stand on their own merits without you trying to run down B&C. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:36 PM PST US From: "Greg Campbell" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor and Offset... Does anybody have the *Grand Rapids Technology EIS* installation manual handy? There is a paragraph about setting up new sensors on Aux inputs. I have a new 25 psi pressure sender that outputs 1-5vdc. I'm trying to determine what Scaling Factor and Offset to use so my EIS displays pressure in PSI to the tenths of a PSI. Thanks! Greg *REFERENCES:* DigiKey.com part number: MSP6025P4-1-ND Measurement Specialties Inc: MSP-600-025-P-4-N-1 PN#: 2000872 SN# G429063 http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/1781.pdf http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data/MSP-600%20Series.pdf http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data/msp600_instructions.pdf ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:27:41 PM PST US From: Ron Shannon Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ron Shannon http://tinyurl.com/l2zyv Greg Campbell wrote: > Does anybody have the *Grand Rapids Technology EIS* installation manual > handy? > There is a paragraph about setting up new sensors on Aux inputs. > > I have a new 25 psi pressure sender that outputs 1-5vdc. > I'm trying to determine what Scaling Factor and Offset to use > so my EIS displays pressure in PSI to the tenths of a PSI. > > Thanks! > Greg > > > *REFERENCES:* > DigiKey.com part number: MSP6025P4-1-ND > Measurement Specialties Inc: MSP-600-025-P-4-N-1 PN#: 2000872 SN# > G429063 > http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/1781.pdf > http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data/MSP-600%20Series.pdf > http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data/msp600_instructions.pdf > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:56 PM PST US From: "Carl Morgan" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor and Offset... Greg, The maths is: OutputValue = ( AuxInVoltage * AuxScaleFactor / 2.5 ) + AuxOffset Where AuxInVoltage is 0-5V DC The only specific details I have: 150 PSI sender AuxSF 182, AuxOff 29 80 PSI sender AuxSF 91, AuxOff 80 HTH Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Greg Campbell Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2006 5:00 p.m. To: AeroElectric-List@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Grand Rapids Technology EIS Scaling Factor and Offset... Does anybody have the Grand Rapids Technology EIS installation manual handy? There is a paragraph about setting up new sensors on Aux inputs. I have a new 25 psi pressure sender that outputs 1-5vdc. I'm trying to determine what Scaling Factor and Offset to use so my EIS displays pressure in PSI to the tenths of a PSI. Thanks! Greg REFERENCES: DigiKey.com part number: MSP6025P4-1-ND Measurement Specialties Inc: MSP-600-025-P-4-N-1 PN#: 2000872 SN# G429063 http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/1781.pdf http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data /MSP-600%20Series.pdf http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Measurement%20Specialties%20Inc/Web%20Data /msp600_instructions.pdf --