AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Thu 07/06/06


Total Messages Posted: 48



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:06 AM - Alternator Belt (Charles Brame)
     2. 04:03 AM - Re: Alternator Belt (Ed Anderson)
     3. 04:37 AM - Re: Alternator Belt (LarryRobertHelming)
     4. 05:11 AM - Re: Re: Insrument Lighting (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     5. 05:38 AM - Re: Load Meter Question (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     6. 05:41 AM - Re: alternator failure modes (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     7. 05:49 AM - Re: Re: Insrument Lighting (John Schroeder)
     8. 06:15 AM - Re: Alternator Belt (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     9. 06:27 AM - Re: Instrument Lighting was Re: Insrument (Charlie Kuss)
    10. 06:35 AM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Charlie Kuss)
    11. 06:42 AM - Re: Alternator Belt (Charlie Kuss)
    12. 06:42 AM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    13. 06:50 AM - Re: Load Meter Question (Brian Lloyd)
    14. 06:53 AM - Re: Charging System (Brian Lloyd)
    15. 07:12 AM - alternator temperature sensor (Brian Lloyd)
    16. 07:12 AM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Brian Lloyd)
    17. 07:44 AM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    18. 07:54 AM - Tragic news (brian bollaert)
    19. 07:54 AM - Re: Re: Insrument Lighting (Harold)
    20. 07:56 AM - Re: Alternator Belt (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
    21. 08:30 AM - Re: Tragic news (James Clark)
    22. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Insrument Lighting (Dj Merrill)
    23. 09:39 AM - Sport Aviation 7/2006 article - Avionics Master (Brett Ferrell)
    24. 09:54 AM - Re: Tragic news (Terry Watson)
    25. 10:11 AM - Re: Tragic news (Jeffery J. Morgan)
    26. 10:27 AM - Alternator Belt (James H Nelson)
    27. 10:46 AM - alternator health (Brian Lloyd)
    28. 11:17 AM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts ()
    29. 11:17 AM - Re: alternator health (Jerry Grimmonpre)
    30. 11:31 AM - Re: Instrument lighting (rd2@evenlink.com)
    31. 11:31 AM - Re: Alternator Belt ()
    32. 11:38 AM - Re: alternator health (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
    33. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Instrument lighting (Brian Lloyd)
    34. 12:45 PM - Re: alternator health (Brian Lloyd)
    35. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Instrument lighting (Ken)
    36. 03:18 PM - Re: Alternator Belt (William Slaughter)
    37. 03:20 PM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts ()
    38. 04:01 PM - Re: Sport Aviation 7/2006 article - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    39. 07:40 PM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Charlie Kuss)
    40. 07:44 PM - Re: Re: Instrument lighting (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
    41. 08:02 PM - Re: Battery Contactor - HOT... (Marty Martin)
    42. 08:02 PM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    43. 08:14 PM - Re: alternator health (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    44. 08:27 PM - Re: Alternator failure thoughts (Brian Lloyd)
    45. 10:20 PM - Re: alternator health (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    46. 10:34 PM - Re: Alternator Belt (Kelly McMullen)
    47. 10:46 PM - VM-1000 current sensor question (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
    48. 11:54 PM - Re: Alternator Belt (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:06:36 AM PST US
    From: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
    Subject: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com> A recent post regarding alternator abuse mentioned using an automotive belt on the alternator rather than an aircraft belt. That's the first I ever heard regarding an "aircraft alternator belt." I always thought a V- belt is a V-belt. The belt furnished with my B&C 60 Amp alternator was too short. I replaced it with a belt from an auto parts store. Seems to work okay. Am I asking for trouble? Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:03:22 AM PST US
    From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> Charlie, I've found that good quality auto V belts like made by GATES give no problem. However, I have had some poor experience with lesser quality brands. I only use GATES belts myself. Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:59 AM > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com> > > A recent post regarding alternator abuse mentioned using an automotive > belt on the alternator rather than an aircraft belt. That's the first I > ever heard regarding an "aircraft alternator belt." I always thought a V- > belt is a V-belt. > > The belt furnished with my B&C 60 Amp alternator was too short. I > replaced it with a belt from an auto parts store. Seems to work okay. > > Am I asking for trouble? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:37:23 AM PST US
    From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net> No problem. Just be sure you got a good one. Vans aircraft recommends using a Yates belt. I would not use a no name special, Stick with a strong brand name and premium grade. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 3:59 AM > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com> > > A recent post regarding alternator abuse mentioned using an automotive > belt on the alternator rather than an aircraft belt. That's the first I > ever heard regarding an "aircraft alternator belt." I always thought a V- > belt is a V-belt. > > The belt furnished with my B&C 60 Amp alternator was too short. I > replaced it with a belt from an auto parts store. Seems to work okay. > > Am I asking for trouble? > > Charlie Brame > RV-6A N11CB > San Antonio > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:11:10 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: RE: Insrument Lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Jerry: I hate the place, but take a ride to Radio Shack. Get an LM-317 voltage regulator, right on the packaging there is a schematic of how to build and what parts are required for a very effective voltage regulator. The hardest and most frustrating part is dealing with the total mental midgets behind the counter. They don't know the difference between a diode, resistor or a capacitor. And god forbid, they get off their ass and look for something or say anything more than, "If you don't see it we don't have it." Or, "Want to buy a cell phone?" Barry "Chop'd Liver"


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:38:11 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Load Meter Question
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/5/06 10:37:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PeterHunt1@aol.com writes: > Any thoughts on what may be > causing this decrease in load meter reading? > > Pete in Clearwater > RV-6, Reserve Grand Champion - Kit, Sun 'n Fun 2006 > All electric panel > Heading for Oshkosh ================================== Pete: Let's make the assumption that the meter is reading correctly. Then there is only two conditions considering all your above checks are correct. The two conditions are really one just at different ends of the circuit. Vibration has improved the connection(s). Either on the B+ side or on the Ground side. Since metal planes tend to use the plane as the common ground I have seen quite a few problems solved by improving the systems grounds. Barry "Chop'd Liver"


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:41:27 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: alternator failure modes
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/5/06 7:53:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brinker@cox-internet.com writes: > If there's one thing I've noticed in my > relatively short flying experiences is that airport folks are generally > friendly and willing to help. > > Randy ================ Yup, as long as you keep away from the FBO's. And look for the EAA types. Barry "Chop'd Liver"


    Message 7


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    Time: 05:49:51 AM PST US
    From: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: Insrument Lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Schroeder" <jschroeder@perigee.net> Amen, brother. It is a shame that they have migrated so far off the hobbyist pathways. In fact, it is hard to find any electronics store fronts these days. There are none in the Charlotte area anymore. Cheers, John DO NOT ARCHIVE On Thu, 6 Jul 2006 08:04:50 EDT, <FLYaDIVE@aol.com> wrote: > The hardest and most frustrating part is dealing with the total mental > midgets behind the counter. They don't know the difference between a > diode, > resistor or a capacitor. And god forbid, they get off their ass and > look for > something or say anything more than, "If you don't see it we don't have > it." Or, > "Want to buy a cell phone?" --


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:15:27 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 03:59 AM 7/6/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com> > >A recent post regarding alternator abuse mentioned using an >automotive belt on the alternator rather than an aircraft belt. >That's the first I ever heard regarding an "aircraft alternator >belt." I always thought a V- belt is a V-belt. > >The belt furnished with my B&C 60 Amp alternator was too short. I >replaced it with a belt from an auto parts store. Seems to work okay. There's no such thing as an "aircraft alternator belt". There are thousands of belts by hundreds of manufacturers and they range in SERVICE LIFE from mediocre to the best-we-know how to do. There may be folks who are on a par with GATES for the manufacture of belts but I'm not personally familiar with who they might be. Perhaps folks on the list who work in that venue can offer some insight as to alternative brands. >Am I asking for trouble? Not if you've crafted your architecture and pilot's mind-set for failure tolerant operation. Broken belts are but one of many reasons an alternator might decided to quit. If you're prepared to deal with an alternator failure on your own terms, then no, you're not asking for trouble. But you may decided to 'upgrade' a belt because you're tired of replacing it. See chapter 17 in the 'Connection. I've seen airplanes at fly-ins where the owner has installed a 'spare' belt over the prop shaft and secured it. This would allow a failed belt to be replaced in the field without pulling the prop. Given the extra-ordinary stress that a belt gets when driving a small-pulley alternator such as the B&C, it's probably money well spent to get the best. Give B&C a call and ask about their experience with Gates belts (that's the brand that probably came with your alternator). Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:27:33 AM PST US
    From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: Instrument Lighting was RE: Insrument
    Jerry, I scanned the first page of the assembly sheet for the MPJA pulse width controller. See http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=4057+MD I've sent it to you off list. I can scan the 2nd page if this is not enough. I've built 3 of these units. I had very little experience with electronics kits previous to assembling these. The first unit took 1.5 hours to build. (reading and understanding the instructions) The third unit only took 0.5 hour to assemble. For a dimmer circuit, the slide switch shown on the diagram can be omitted. It's purpose is only to allow polarity reversal for reversing direction of a motor. Charlie Kuss >Hey Guys, > Thanks to Eric, Ken , and Charlie for your > suggestions. However, I don't have any idea on how to build a PWM > or variable duty cycle circuit. Do you guys have any schematics or > more info? Thanks Charlie for including the link. > I don't plan on disconnecting the instrument or covering it > up. I have the g-meter lit for aesthetics and symmetry. I paid > extra to have it lit, so I plan on using it. > I called the manufacturer of the g-meter. The reason the > instrument is so bright is that it actually has three bulbs drawing > a total of 0.56. The company verified my amp draw correct for a 12 > v unit. So at least I know I have the right bulbs. I still need > to dim it down a bit to make the brightness similar to the rest of > the instruments. Bob K., do you have any ideas? > >Thank you, >Jerry > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken ><<mailto:klehman@albedo.net?subject=Re:%20Instrument%20lighting&replyto=44A5201A.9050100@albedo.net>klehman@albedo.net> > >Hi Jerry >I'd say you did it all correctly but you are just surprised at how much >the 2.5 watts heats up a resistor. A 5 watt bulb is about what >incandescent children's night lights are and does seem ridiculous for an >instrument so I agree that is is the wrong bulb. I would leave it as is >with your resistor. Second choice would be change the bulb to one that >is really 12 volts. Third choice is a variable duty cycle circuit that >pulses short 12 volt pulses to the lamp so that it averages the same >power as running it on 5 volts. That avoids heating up a resistor and >dumping the 2.5 watts but I doubt it is worth the trouble. Fourth choice >is kind of silly but if you had another similar instrument you could >wire them is series... >Ken > >Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi wrote: > > > Hey Guys, > > I have a simple problem that most likely has a simple solution. > > The solution, however, eludes me. I have an internally lit g-meter on > > my instrument panel (Don't ask me why :-)). The g-meter's lighting is > > internal to the instrument, i.e. it's not a lighting tray that is > > screwed to the top. The instrument would have to be opened up to get > > to the lamp. > > > > I purchased the g-meter from Chief a while back ago, and when I > > received it, I realized it was a 5v unit. Chief didn't have any other > > lighting option listed or available. I thought about dropping the > > voltage with a resistor. Before doing this I called the manufacturer > > Wultrad (aka Falcon Gauge). They said they had a 12v unit in stock > > that they could swap for mine. I thought... "great problem solved." > > They shipped me one back with a 12v label over the original label. In > > testing my instrument panel lighting, I discovered that the g-meter is > > considerably brighter than the other instruments to the point it would > > be annoying at night. The interesting thing is the light is nice and > > white and very uniform though out the face of the instrument. Anyway, > > I thought... "gee I'm back to putting in a resistor to dim the light!" > > > > "OK, no problem. I'll figure out what size resistor I need and > > move on," I thought. The problem is the resistance of any > > incandescent lamp changes whether it hot or cold. The lamp is drawing > > 0.56 A at 12.0 v. Seem's like a lot to me. From that I deduced the > > lamp's resistance at 21.3 ohm. The problem is that when I figure out > > what size resistor I need to get say a 7 or 8 v voltage drop across > > the lamp and add that resistor to the circuit, the current changes and > > so does the resistance of the lamp. So how does one figure this stuff > > out? I decided to purchase a potentiometer and install it in my > > circuit, adjust it 'till I got the brightness I wanted and then > > measure the resistance of the pot. In doing this I began to smell > > smoke, the little pot was beginning to glow red as I dimmed down the > > light in the instrument. I went back and purchased a heavier pot. > > This did the trick. I decided a 20 ohm resistor in series would be > > perfect. I purchased a 22 ohm, 2 W resistor, temporarily installed > > it, and the light was perfect. The problem was I was still smelling > > that familiar acrid smell. I had a 7.4 v drop across the resistor and > > a .34 A current giving me 2.5 W to dissipate. I later tried two 10 > > ohm, 2 W resistors in series. Still, they got too hot. I purchased a > > ceramic 22 ohm, 5 W resistor and it still got too hot to touch. The > > small battery I was using for testing was putting out 12.2 v under the > > load. I had a 7.4 v drop across the resistor, So I deduced I must be > > getting a 4.8 v drop across the lamp. The light was just right. I > > wonder if I still have a 5v lamp inside the instrument! I measured > > 0.34 A in the circuit. The 5 W resistor ought to be handling the 2.5 > > W I need to dissipate just fine. Something is wrong. Do any of you > > smart guys know what I'm doing wrong? > > > > Jerry > > "Smelling smoke in Georgia


    Message 10


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    Time: 06:35:47 AM PST US
    From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Alternator failure thoughts
    Frank All cars except Honda products, spin their alternators in the opposite direction than Lycomings. Air is supposed to be sucked into the alternator (longitudinally) at both the front and rear (fans at both ends) and expelled through the grates in the center of the case (radially). Correct fan rotation aids in cooling, as incoming air from the cowl is going into the front of the alternator. Also, cooling shrouds on the rear of the alternator are more effective. All that said, Bob N says that using an ND off of a Toyota or other vehicle won't greatly affect the cooling of the unit. The air will simply be drawn in from the center and expelled out the ends. Charlie Kuss >Not sure i understand this "backwards turning" deal. Frome what i >can see the internal fan alternators appear to have simply radial >fan blades that simply throw air out thru the sides of the alt. >Therby presumably sucking air in from both front and back. > >Adding a cool air supply to the regulator should therefore augment >the existing fan. I am thinking of doing a similar thing by riveting >something similar to the stamped rear cover of my Autozone Toyota >Camry special. > >Cetainly couldn't hurt > >Frank > > >---------- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Burnaby >Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:55 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator failure thoughts > >I'm not flying yet, but my 60 A ND ER alternator (of undetermined >auto application) has been modified by removing the stamped steel >vented rear cover and replacing it with a fiberglass closed cover >with a stub to accept a blast tube to force air over the diode >plate, as an attempt to compensate for a backward turning alt fan. >Aside from buying a B&C or Plane Power unit, is there a better way? >Is this likely to have a positive effect? > >John


    Message 11


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    Time: 06:42:00 AM PST US
    From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    >snipped > > There's no such thing as an "aircraft alternator belt". There > are thousands of belts by hundreds of manufacturers and they > range in SERVICE LIFE from mediocre to the best-we-know how > to do. > > There may be folks who are on a par with GATES for the > manufacture of belts but I'm not personally familiar with > who they might be. Perhaps folks on the list who work in > that venue can offer some insight as to alternative brands. >snipped > Bob . . . Listers, I will second the recommendation of Gates belts. On a par with Gates is the OEM belt supplier for most Japanese cars. The manufacturer is Bando. In the past year, I've found Bando belts easily available from the after-market. I have only found one "off brand" belt which compares to these two. The brand name is Force One. It comes in a black and white cardboard sheath. My local parts supplier carries this brand and I'm impressed with the quality. On the other hand, I would not use a Dayco brand belt on a go kart! Charlie Kuss


    Message 12


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    Time: 06:42:00 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:55 AM 7/5/2006 -0700, you wrote: >I'm not flying yet, but my 60 A ND ER alternator (of undetermined auto >application) has been modified by removing the stamped steel vented rear >cover and replacing it with a fiberglass closed cover with a stub to >accept a blast tube to force air over the diode plate, as an attempt to >compensate for a backward turning alt fan. Aside from buying a B&C or >Plane Power unit, is there a better way? Is this likely to have a positive >effect? > >John Positive, forced air cooling of an alternator is never a bad thing to do. The question that has always plagued the OBAM aircraft community continues to be: "Is cooling necessary?" Until we mount an effort to gather meaningful temperature data internal to the alternator under various electrical loads and flight conditions (hot-day, Vx climb), etc. From the viewpoint of regulators who have blessed an electrical load analysis based on what the alternator's nameplate ratings, now they want to see if installation issues (drive ratios and cooling) will produce the power your load analysis claims. We know that very few OBAM aircraft will ever need all of the alternator's nameplate power. We also know that cooling effectiveness of air movement under the cowl can be strongly influenced by changes in baffling, cowl geometry, accessory locations, belt ratios, etc. The bright side of all this uncertainty is that few alternators fail in OBAM aircraft for reasons obviously attributable to heat . . . nonetheless, when some poor builder is on his third in a string of alternator failures, cooling is one of several things to be explored. The standard approach is to add some form of blast cooling and hope the next alternator survives. In the past half-dozen or so seminars, I've offered to help any interested builder in crafting a test plan and then providing them with the data acquisition system that would let us investigate alternator cooling issues on their airplane. The same activity would work toward development of a testing model and an article that might encourage others to add further test data to the library. So far, no takers. It occurs to me that recent discussions on alternator "failures" may have suffered from a lack of definition for the word. As a professional in TC aviation I've come to understand that failures come in three broad classes: (1) failure due to lack of due-diligence in observance of manufacturer's instructions. (2) failure to meet design goals for operating performance. (3) failure to meet reasonable (or guaranteed) expectations for service life. In the TC aircraft world, "failure" is applied to those devices that required replacement or disassembly for refurbishment/upgrading. The perception of value for service life is a BIG driver in the supplier/consumer relationship. I recall a conversation with one of our hangar renters at 1K1 who was telling me that TBO on his ultra-light engine was about 300 hours! 2000 hour, TC engine drivers sitting on the porch with us were aghast. I remember thinking that was about 6 years of average flying. He quickly followed up that he was already on his "second engine" having overhauled it on a Saturday afternoon for $600 worth of parts. Hmmmm $2/hr for parts. 6 hours labor. Not a "bad" return on investment as long as the device wears in an orderly manner such that the owner can choose when to do replacement or refurbishment based on inspection. When looking over the various postings on the 'net concerning ANY product, one needs to sort out discussions for relevance against your working definition of failure and a host of other issues. These include user understanding for both the basic physics of the system augmented with skill of the writers of installation instructions. One can find a great deal of discussion about a lot of products where root cause of the discussion is NOT a failure of the product but a customer service issue. This is where the manufacturer has an opportunity to excel. One can have the best-we-know- how-to-do product and still gather less-than-stellar reviews if the customer doesn't get whatever support is necessary for satisfactory installation and operation. I can cite you a great example of how a once admired supplier to RAC has crapped in their mess kit by failing to go the extra mile with customer support. A product I designed for them 25 years ago has been replaced under warranty in the field at a cost of $millions$. It didn't take much investigation to find that installation and trouble-shooting instructions were poor. The supplier's attitude is that "The parts go out of here meeting all quality assurance requirements. We've done everything we signed up to do." Nonetheless, hundreds of no-fault-found units get replaced for lack of understanding. As far as purchasing is concerned, the computer records don't lie. They see losses against that part in $millions$, the project group thinks the supplier is incompetent, the users just shrug it off as the high cost of owning an airplane and the supplier says "we did what we signed up to do." The thing that really irks me personally is the fact that my name is on all the drawings that define how the thing is built and few persons who pick those drawings up see the big picture and understand why there is so much grief. The easy and common thing to do is curse those "ivory tower" engineers . . . My momma told me that I would be judged by the company I keep. Took me 40 years to understand what she was talking about. The supplier is now on the @!#@-list and not likely to get new business from that project group. The recipes for success call for much more than the elegant design. You need to be prepared to support your product from cradle to grave whether problems are your fault or not. Failure to do so can severely damage a perfectly good reputation for really stupid reasons that start with ignorance of the supporting simple-ideas. Bob . . .


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:50:40 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Load Meter Question
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 5, 2006, at 10:32 PM, PeterHunt1@aol.com wrote: > Bob: > > When I first installed the load meter you sold me it read 25%. > Now, with the same instruments/electrical equipment on it reads > 16%. The decrease from 25% to 16% has taken place gradually over > the past 20 hours of flight time and it just seems to me that this > decrease is substantial. No lights, instruments or other > electrical equipment have failed. Any thoughts on what may be > causing this decrease in load meter reading? Your battery may have been low in charge. Over the past 25 hours it has finally reached full charge. That is all I can think of. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:53:50 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Charging System
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 5, 2006, at 10:40 PM, Jim Butcher wrote: > The aircraft is equipped with 3 ammeters - one on the battery > positive and one on each alternator output. What I observed during > flight and subsequent testing today is that the battery ammeter > shows -3 amps (a 3 amp discharge) all the time, regardless of load > - ie turning on pitot heat doesnt change the value - its still a > 3 amp discharge. Data from flights prior to the maintenance showed > 0 amps at this spot as expected. The problem is present with either > alternator on line and both of them operate correctly, proven by > loading heavily (pitot heat) and noting the amp output. > > Any suggestions on where to look? Might there be a problem with > this battery where it cant accept a charge properly? The bus > voltage runs 14.1 - 14.2 volts which is what B&C recommends. If the bus voltage is 14.1 then the battery is charging. There is no question about that. I would suspect the metering circuit. Do you really have three ammeters or three shunts switched to one ammeter? It sounds to me like you might have inadvertently switched two of the leads to your shunt switch. (Presuming one ammeter). Another possibility is that if you have hall-effect sensors the zero setting on the one for the battery has become misadjusted. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 15


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    Time: 07:12:45 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: alternator temperature sensor
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> Here is how Balmar senses temp on an alternator: http://www.balmar.net/PDF/Temperaturesensormanuall.pdf Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:12:45 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 6, 2006, at 9:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 08:55 AM 7/5/2006 -0700, you wrote: > >> I'm not flying yet, but my 60 A ND ER alternator (of undetermined >> auto application) has been modified by removing the stamped steel >> vented rear cover and replacing it with a fiberglass closed cover >> with a stub to accept a blast tube to force air over the diode >> plate, as an attempt to compensate for a backward turning alt fan. >> Aside from buying a B&C or Plane Power unit, is there a better >> way? Is this likely to have a positive effect? >> >> John > > Positive, forced air cooling of an alternator is never a bad thing > to do. The question that has always plagued the OBAM aircraft > community continues to be: "Is cooling necessary?" > > Until we mount an effort to gather meaningful temperature data > internal to the alternator under various electrical loads and > flight conditions (hot-day, Vx climb), etc. That might not be too hard to do. Interesting thing is that the Balmar alternator controllers include a temp sensor for the alternator. If the alternator gets too hot the controller reduces alternator output. They just bolt a thermistor to the alternator case much like we do with a CHT sensor. That shouldn't be hard to craft at all. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:44:53 AM PST US
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    Subject: Alternator failure thoughts
    Like I said i have not pulled and alt apart to see what it has but radial fans come in three forms...Simple spade blades, forward curved centrifugal and backards curved centrifugal. I would bet the fan is a rudimentary backwards curved design. Either way the fan will still flow air in the correct direction but not as efficiently...I.e its still a centrifugal fan that sucks air into the middle and throw radially outwards. I have never personally done this but my suspicion was just confirmed by one of my techs here in the office. Bottom line is then running backwards will equate to less cooling flow but is this an issue...Without instrumentation its impossible to tell. Frank ________________________________ [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:33 AM Frank All cars except Honda products, spin their alternators in the opposite direction than Lycomings. Air is supposed to be sucked into the alternator (longitudinally) at both the front and rear (fans at both ends) and expelled through the grates in the center of the case (radially). Correct fan rotation aids in cooling, as incoming air from the cowl is going into the front of the alternator. Also, cooling shrouds on the rear of the alternator are more effective. All that said, Bob N says that using an ND off of a Toyota or other vehicle won't greatly affect the cooling of the unit. The air will simply be drawn in from the center and expelled out the ends. Charlie Kuss Not sure i understand this "backwards turning" deal. Frome what i can see the internal fan alternators appear to have simply radial fan blades that simply throw air out thru the sides of the alt. Therby presumably sucking air in from both front and back. Adding a cool air supply to the regulator should therefore augment the existing fan. I am thinking of doing a similar thing by riveting something similar to the stamped rear cover of my Autozone Toyota Camry special. Cetainly couldn't hurt Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of John Burnaby Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:55 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator failure thoughts I'm not flying yet, but my 60 A ND ER alternator (of undetermined auto application) has been modified by removing the stamped steel vented rear cover and replacing it with a fiberglass closed cover with a stub to accept a blast tube to force air over the diode plate, as an attempt to compensate for a backward turning alt fan. Aside from buying a B&C or Plane Power unit, is there a better way? Is this likely to have a positive effect? John


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:54:03 AM PST US
    From: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
    Subject: Tragic news
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net> Hello It is with infinite sadness that I must inform you all that Brian was in a plane crash with two other pilots on Saturday July 1. He was not in his RV and he was not the pilot. He really enjoyed all the input and comraderie he felt from you all . He is going to be very sorely missed. Please tell me how to unsubscribe from here. Sincerely, Rebecca Bollaert rbollaert@comcast.com ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:11 AM > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> > > Here is how Balmar senses temp on an alternator: > > http://www.balmar.net/PDF/Temperaturesensormanuall.pdf > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way > brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:54:30 AM PST US
    From: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: Insrument Lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net> I live on the wrong coast, but I've been to FRYS south of Portland, seems as if they have something for everyone. Harold


    Message 20


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    Time: 07:56:38 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/6/06 9:17:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nuckollsr@cox.net writes: > There's no such thing as an "aircraft alternator belt". There > are thousands of belts by hundreds of manufacturers and they > range in SERVICE LIFE from mediocre to the best-we-know how > to do. ====================================== Don't tell that to the FAA! Here are the part numbers: ALT BELT: 37A19773-37 <--- FAA Approved and with an FAA - PMA stamp. This is the Gates Automotive equivalent: (gates belt 3V375). Now, as I have stated before, there are quality differences. I have noted that when it comes to Original Timing Belts and Serpentine Belts. The FACTORY ORIGINAL is of much better quality than OEM or Auto Store items. See my long post with explanation ... It should be in the archives. Barry "Chop'd Liver"


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:30:24 AM PST US
    From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Tragic news
    So sorry to hear that. Click on the first link in the message below and then go and click on the "Subscribe/Unsubscribe" link. It will be self explanatory from there. James On 7/6/06, brian bollaert <bbollaert@comcast.net> wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" < > bbollaert@comcast.net> > > Hello > > It is with infinite sadness that I must inform you all that Brian was in a > plane crash with two other pilots on Saturday July 1. He was not in his > RV > and he was not the pilot. > > He really enjoyed all the input and comraderie he felt from you all . He > is > going to be very sorely missed. > > Please tell me how to unsubscribe from here. > > Sincerely, > > > Rebecca Bollaert > rbollaert@comcast.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:11 AM > > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd < > brian-yak@lloyd.com> > > > > Here is how Balmar senses temp on an alternator: > > > > http://www.balmar.net/PDF/Temperaturesensormanuall.pdf > > > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way > > brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > > > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > > =97 Antoine de Saint-Exup=E9ry > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================= =========== ========================= =========== ========================= =========== ========================= =========== > > -- This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james@nextupventures.com .


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:25:56 AM PST US
    From: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: Insrument Lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net> On Thu, 6 Jul 2006, Harold wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Harold" <kayce33@earthlink.net> > > I live on the wrong coast, but I've been to FRYS south of Portland, seems as > if they have something for everyone. > Harold If I remember correctly, the ILS 18 approach to Lebanon NH (KLEB) is HAMMM, BURGR, FRYYS... *grin* -Dj do not archive


    Message 23


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    Time: 09:39:06 AM PST US
    From: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
    Subject: Sport Aviation 7/2006 article - Avionics Master
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net> Bob, I'd love to hear your opinion on the "The Avionics Master - to Protect and Defend" article in the July Sport Aviation, page 119 by George Wilhlmsen. I don't know if you recieve it or not, it appears to not be available online http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/0607_toc.html though I could probably scan it for you. Brett


    Message 24


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    Time: 09:54:47 AM PST US
    From: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
    Subject: Tragic news
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com> For those of you in other parts of the country or world who would not be aware of Rebecca Bollaert's loss, here is the story from the Seattle Times last Sunday. Terry Three Western Washington men killed in small-plane crash By The Associated Press DAVENPORT, Wash. - Three Western Washington men were killed when the experimental aircraft they were in crashed during an attempted landing at Seven Bays Airport west of Spokane. The Lincoln County sheriff's office identified the victims as Charles W. McCanna, 74, and Brian G. Bollaert, 56, both of Federal Way, and Michael B. Ekholm, 50, of Monroe, KOMO Television reported Sunday. The single-engine, homemade aircraft was registered to McCanna. It went down Saturday afternoon about 30 miles north of Davenport in Lincoln County, said FAA spokesman Mike O'Connor. Staff from the agency's Spokane office were investigating, he said. Witnesses said the plane's propeller hit the side of a gully, flipping it as the pilot tried to land the plane. "An eyewitness said they saw the plane in a pretty deep banking turn" before crashing, said Kelly Watkins, chief criminal investigator for the Lincoln County sheriff's office. Copyright C 2006 The Seattle Times Company --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net> Hello It is with infinite sadness that I must inform you all that Brian was in a plane crash with two other pilots on Saturday July 1. He was not in his RV and he was not the pilot. He really enjoyed all the input and comraderie he felt from you all . He is going to be very sorely missed. Please tell me how to unsubscribe from here. Sincerely, Rebecca Bollaert rbollaert@comcast.com > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:11:34 AM PST US
    From: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com>
    Subject: Tragic news
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com> Thanks for the info. Anyone know more info, such as how the prop hit a gully, but the wings didn't? Is the airport in a valley? Being from not there, just trying to get a picture. Thanks -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:52 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" --> <terry@tcwatson.com> For those of you in other parts of the country or world who would not be aware of Rebecca Bollaert's loss, here is the story from the Seattle Times last Sunday. Terry Three Western Washington men killed in small-plane crash By The Associated Press DAVENPORT, Wash. - Three Western Washington men were killed when the experimental aircraft they were in crashed during an attempted landing at Seven Bays Airport west of Spokane. The Lincoln County sheriff's office identified the victims as Charles W. McCanna, 74, and Brian G. Bollaert, 56, both of Federal Way, and Michael B. Ekholm, 50, of Monroe, KOMO Television reported Sunday. The single-engine, homemade aircraft was registered to McCanna. It went down Saturday afternoon about 30 miles north of Davenport in Lincoln County, said FAA spokesman Mike O'Connor. Staff from the agency's Spokane office were investigating, he said. Witnesses said the plane's propeller hit the side of a gully, flipping it as the pilot tried to land the plane. "An eyewitness said they saw the plane in a pretty deep banking turn" before crashing, said Kelly Watkins, chief criminal investigator for the Lincoln County sheriff's office. Copyright C 2006 The Seattle Times Company --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net> Hello It is with infinite sadness that I must inform you all that Brian was in a plane crash with two other pilots on Saturday July 1. He was not in his RV and he was not the pilot. He really enjoyed all the input and comraderie he felt from you all . He is going to be very sorely missed. Please tell me how to unsubscribe from here. Sincerely, Rebecca Bollaert rbollaert@comcast.com > >


    Message 26


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    Time: 10:27:05 AM PST US
    From: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
    Subject: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com> Charlie, I sell V-Belts for a living and other assorted sundry for industrial items like bearings. There is two styles of "V" belts. one configuration is "industrial" and the other is "automotive". The difference is in the angle that makes the v-belt. The automotive is a narrow "V" and the industrial "V" is a wider angle "V".. Industrial belts are designated by their size. The first letter or number usually designates the top width. Such as A-35 belt. This is a 1/2" wide belt that is 35" in circumference on the inside. A 4L370 is physically the same just a light duty "A" series. (don't ask !!) Think of the "L" meaning light duty. There is a series called "3V or 3VX that is almost the exact match to the belts used on aircraft engines. I will bring home a 3vx belt and check it out on my engine. That should put the confusion and sources to rest. Jim Nelson


    Message 27


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    Time: 10:46:44 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> Bob, I loved your original alternator health-O-meter. How about a new one that measures: 1. alternator load; 2. alternator voltage; 3. field voltage; 4. alternator frame temperature; all in a single, compact, 2.25" instrument. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 28


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    Time: 11:17:36 AM PST US
    From: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net> Frank Thank you for correcting my misguided notion that running these fans backwards would reverse the direction of air flow. Charlie Kuss ---- "Hinde wrote: > Like I said i have not pulled and alt apart to see what it has but > radial fans come in three forms...Simple spade blades, forward curved > centrifugal and backards curved centrifugal. > > I would bet the fan is a rudimentary backwards curved design. Either way > the fan will still flow air in the correct direction but not as > efficiently...I.e its still a centrifugal fan that sucks air into the > middle and throw radially outwards. > > I have never personally done this but my suspicion was just confirmed by > one of my techs here in the office. > > Bottom line is then running backwards will equate to less cooling flow > but is this an issue...Without instrumentation its impossible to tell. > > Frank > > > > ________________________________ > > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Charlie Kuss > Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 6:33 AM > > > Frank > All cars except Honda products, spin their alternators in the opposite > direction than Lycomings. Air is supposed to be sucked into the > alternator (longitudinally) at both the front and rear (fans at both > ends) and expelled through the grates in the center of the case > (radially). Correct fan rotation aids in cooling, as incoming air from > the cowl is going into the front of the alternator. Also, cooling > shrouds on the rear of the alternator are more effective. All that said, > Bob N says that using an ND off of a Toyota or other vehicle won't > greatly affect the cooling of the unit. The air will simply be drawn in > from the center and expelled out the ends. > Charlie Kuss > > > > > Not sure i understand this "backwards turning" deal. Frome what > i can see the internal fan alternators appear to have simply radial fan > blades that simply throw air out thru the sides of the alt. Therby > presumably sucking air in from both front and back. > > Adding a cool air supply to the regulator should therefore > augment the existing fan. I am thinking of doing a similar thing by > riveting something similar to the stamped rear cover of my Autozone > Toyota Camry special. > > Cetainly couldn't hurt > > Frank > > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [ > mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > <mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com> ] On Behalf Of > John Burnaby > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 8:55 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator failure thoughts > > I'm not flying yet, but my 60 A ND ER alternator (of > undetermined auto application) has been modified by removing the stamped > steel vented rear cover and replacing it with a fiberglass closed cover > with a stub to accept a blast tube to force air over the diode plate, as > an attempt to compensate for a backward turning alt fan. Aside from > buying a B&C or Plane Power unit, is there a better way? Is this likely > to have a positive effect? > > John >


    Message 29


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    Time: 11:17:36 AM PST US
    From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
    Subject: Re: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net> I'll second that motion .... It'll make trouble shooting easier. Jerry Grimmonpre' Do no archive --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> Bob, I loved your original alternator health-O-meter. How about a new one that measures: 1. alternator load; 2. alternator voltage; 3. field voltage; 4. alternator frame temperature; all in a single, compact, 2.25" instrument. Brian Lloyd


    Message 30


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    Time: 11:31:11 AM PST US
    From: rd2@evenlink.com
    Subject: Re: Instrument lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com Would PWM be suitable for LEDs also? Rumen _____________________Original message __________________________ (received from Eric Ekberg; Date: 09:32 AM 7/4/2006 -0500) ________________________________________________________________ I think what you did is fine, resistors are designed to get hot. However, if you want to reduce voltage efficiently use a simple PWM (pulse width modulated) voltage regulator circuit - you can build them for a dollar or two, they just use one IC and 2 or 3 resistors, and sometimes a heatsink. Look in one of the electronic catalogs. You can do a google search and come up with the design examples. eric do not archive On 6/30/06, Jerry & Ledy Esquenazi <<mailto:jlinga@mchsi.com>jlinga@mchsi.com> wrote: Hey Guys, I have a simple problem that most likely has a simple solution. The solution, however, eludes me. I have an internally lit g-meter on my instrument panel (Don't ask me why :-)). The g-meter's lighting is internal to the instrument, i.e. it's not a lighting tray that is screwed to the top. The instrument would have to be opened up to get to the lamp. I purchased the g-meter from Chief a while back ago, and when I received it, I realized it was a 5v unit. Chief didn't have any other lighting option listed or available. I thought about dropping the voltage with a resistor. Before doing this I called the manufacturer Wultrad (aka Falcon Gauge). They said they had a 12v unit in stock that they could swap for mine. I thought... "great problem solved." They shipped me one back with a 12v label over the original label. In testing my instrument panel lighting, I discovered that the g-meter is considerably brighter than the other instruments to the point it would be annoying at night. The interesting thing is the light is nice and white and very uniform though out the face of the instrument. Anyway, I thought... "gee I'm back to putting in a resistor to dim the light!" "OK, no problem. I'll figure out what size resistor I need and move on," I thought. The problem is the resistance of any incandescent lamp changes whether it hot or cold. The lamp is drawing 0.56 A at 12.0 v. Seem's like a lot to me. From that I deduced the lamp's resistance at 21.3 ohm. The problem is that when I figure out what size resistor I need to get say a 7 or 8 v voltage drop across the lamp and add that resistor to the circuit, the current changes and so does the resistance of the lamp. So how does one figure this stuff out? I decided to purchase a potentiometer and install it in my circuit, adjust it 'till I got the brightness I wanted and then measure the resistance of the pot. In doing this I began to smell smoke, the little pot was beginning to glow red as I dimmed down the light in the instrument. I went back and purchased a heavier pot. This did the trick. I decided a 20 ohm resistor in series would be perfect. I purchased a 22 ohm, 2 W resistor, temporarily installed it, and the light was perfect. The problem was I was still smelling that familiar acrid smell. I had a 7.4 v drop across the resistor and a .34 A current giving me 2.5 W to dissipate. I later tried two 10 ohm, 2 W resistors in series. Still, they got too hot. I purchased a ceramic 22 ohm, 5 W resistor and it still got too hot to touch. The small battery I was using for testing was putting out 12.2 v under the load. I had a 7.4 v drop across the resistor, So I deduced I must be getting a 4.8 v drop across the lamp. The light was just right. I wonder if I still have a 5v lamp inside the instrument! I measured 0.34 A in the circuit. The 5 W resistor ought to be handling the 2.5 W I need to dissipate just fine. Something is wrong. Do any of you smart guys know what I'm doing wrong? Jerry "Smelling smoke in Georgia"


    Message 31


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    Time: 11:31:11 AM PST US
    From: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net> James, I am aware of the industrial Gates belts. I've also seen Gates heavy duty belts referred to as Green Stripe. Are the Green Stripe Gates brand belts the same as the industrial quality units? I often see these used in heavy machinery or in medium and heavy duty trucks. Your recommendation to use the industrial quality belts is well founded. However, for the pilot who is AOG due to a broken belt, he may not be able to find an industrial supplier close by the airport or open (weekends ya' know). That means he has to resort to an auto or farm supply store. He still has a chance of getting a good quality belt, if he knows what to ask for. Thanks for adding to this discussion. Charlie Kuss ---- James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com> > > Charlie, > I sell V-Belts for a living and other assorted sundry for > industrial items like bearings. There is two styles of "V" belts. one > configuration is "industrial" and the other is "automotive". The > difference is in the angle that makes the v-belt. The automotive is a > narrow "V" and the industrial "V" is a wider angle "V".. Industrial > belts are designated by their size. The first letter or number usually > designates the top width. Such as A-35 belt. This is a 1/2" wide belt > that is 35" in circumference on the inside. A 4L370 is physically the > same just a light duty "A" series. (don't ask !!) Think of the "L" > meaning light duty. There is a series called "3V or 3VX that is almost > the exact match to the belts used on aircraft engines. I will bring > home a 3vx belt and check it out on my engine. That should put the > confusion and sources to rest. > > > Jim Nelson > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 32


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    Time: 11:38:37 AM PST US
    From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
    Subject: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> Just suck the data into an engine monitor like a Dynon and set an alarm on each parameter. Frank -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Grimmonpre Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 11:14 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" --> <jerry@mc.net> I'll second that motion .... It'll make trouble shooting easier. Jerry Grimmonpre' Do no archive --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd --> <brian-yak@lloyd.com> Bob, I loved your original alternator health-O-meter. How about a new one that measures: 1. alternator load; 2. alternator voltage; 3. field voltage; 4. alternator frame temperature; all in a single, compact, 2.25" instrument. Brian Lloyd


    Message 33


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    Time: 12:45:15 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Instrument lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 6, 2006, at 1:53 PM, rd2@evenlink.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > > Would PWM be suitable for LEDs also? Yes. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 34


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    Time: 12:45:15 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> > > Just suck the data into an engine monitor like a Dynon and set an > alarm > on each parameter. The only problem with that is, at least in the case of field voltage or field current, it varies all over the map. It is proportional to load (goes up when load is increased) and inversely proportional to RPM (goes down as RPM increases). This means you have to know what both the load and the RPM are doing to make sense of the field voltage reading. I suspect that people will poke at the button and get a feel for what the field voltage should be in cruise with a normal load. If it jumps up then they will know that something has changed in their alternator. This is not something you can set a hard limit on. BTW, Bob, I want one in a 24V flavor too. Maybe we should just use a 4-digit DVM. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 35


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    Time: 01:14:42 PM PST US
    From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
    Subject: Re: Instrument lighting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <klehman@albedo.net> Yes that works very well but as a rule you still need the current limiting resistor. LED's draw so little power that a simple linear regulator may be a bit easier and cheaper and may not even require a heatsink. While you can put LED's and incandescant lamps on the same dimmer they are unlikely to dim evenly so two different dimmers might be required if you are picky about uniformly dimming panel lights. There are ways of controlling multiple dimming circuits from one knob but of course then one circuit failure can kill all the lights if that is a concern. Note that Bob has a LM-117 or LM-317 based linear regulator circuit for a lamp dimmer on his aeroelectric site. Linear regulators are essentially a solid state variable resistor and they dissipate as much heat as a resistor would. But for panel lighting that may not be much heat. I setup four of them in a row for panel dimming and they merely get a bit warm. The efficiency is not much of an issue in an application that doesn't require much power. A neat characteristic of these linear regulators is that they protect themselves rather well from overheating or short circuits so they are fairly resistant to abuse and they don't generate noise. A PWM circuit may generate some electrical noise as it rapidly switches the current on and off. I have seen some high end ANR headsets that are sensitive to noise from some PWM panel dimmers. Ken rd2@evenlink.com wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: rd2@evenlink.com > >Would PWM be suitable for LEDs also? > >Rumen > >_____________________Original message __________________________ > (received from Eric Ekberg; Date: 09:32 AM 7/4/2006 >-0500) >________________________________________________________________ >I think what you did is fine, resistors are designed to get hot. However, >if you want to reduce voltage efficiently use a simple PWM (pulse width >modulated) voltage regulator circuit - you can build them for a dollar or >two, they just use one IC and 2 or 3 resistors, and sometimes a heatsink. >Look in one of the electronic catalogs. You can do a google search and >come up with the design examples. > >eric >snip >


    Message 36


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    Time: 03:18:34 PM PST US
    From: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
    Subject: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alumni.rice.edu> The Green Stripe belt was/is a "premium" automotive version. I have no specs on how premium it is, but back in the day it was the preferred belt for racing Corvairs, where the belt had to go over two idler pulleys, making the trip from the horizontal crankshaft pulley, then turning 90 degrees to drive the cooling fan mounted on a vertical axis, then back down another 90 degree turn to rejoin the crankshft pulley. As you can imagine, this setup on a 6000+ rpm motor was quite a workout for the belt. Generic belts wouldn't last a day, but the Green Stripe belts gave good service. William Slaughter -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of chaztuna@adelphia.net Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 1:08 PM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net> James, I am aware of the industrial Gates belts. I've also seen Gates heavy duty belts referred to as Green Stripe. Are the Green Stripe Gates brand belts the same as the industrial quality units? I often see these used in heavy machinery or in medium and heavy duty trucks. Your recommendation to use the industrial quality belts is well founded. However, for the pilot who is AOG due to a broken belt, he may not be able to find an industrial supplier close by the airport or open (weekends ya' know). That means he has to resort to an auto or farm supply store. He still has a chance of getting a good quality belt, if he knows what to ask for. Thanks for adding to this discussion. Charlie Kuss ---- James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com> wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson > --> <rv9jim@juno.com> > > Charlie, > I sell V-Belts for a living and other assorted sundry for > industrial items like bearings. There is two styles of "V" belts. one > configuration is "industrial" and the other is "automotive". The > difference is in the angle that makes the v-belt. The automotive is a > narrow "V" and the industrial "V" is a wider angle "V".. Industrial > belts are designated by their size. The first letter or number > usually designates the top width. Such as A-35 belt. This is a 1/2" > wide belt that is 35" in circumference on the inside. A 4L370 is physically the > same just a light duty "A" series. (don't ask !!) Think of the "L" > meaning light duty. There is a series called "3V or 3VX that is almost > the exact match to the belts used on aircraft engines. I will bring > home a 3vx belt and check it out on my engine. That should put the > confusion and sources to rest. > > > Jim Nelson > > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 03:20:41 PM PST US
    From: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net> snipped > >John > > Positive, forced air cooling of an alternator is never a bad thing > to do. The question that has always plagued the OBAM aircraft > community continues to be: "Is cooling necessary?" > > Until we mount an effort to gather meaningful temperature data > internal to the alternator under various electrical loads and > flight conditions (hot-day, Vx climb), etc. snipped > > We know that very few OBAM aircraft will ever need all of > the alternator's nameplate power. We also know that cooling > effectiveness of air movement under the cowl can be strongly > influenced by changes in baffling, cowl geometry, accessory > locations, belt ratios, etc. snipped > In the past half-dozen or so seminars, I've offered to help > any interested builder in crafting a test plan and then > providing them with the data acquisition system that would > let us investigate alternator cooling issues on their > airplane. The same activity would work toward development of > a testing model and an article that might encourage others > to add further test data to the library. So far, no takers. snipped > Bob . . . Bob, Where would you suggest mounting a thermister on an alternator to monitor temperature? Charlie Kuss


    Message 38


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    Time: 04:01:13 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Sport Aviation 7/2006 article -
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 12:34 PM 7/6/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" ><bferrell@123mail.net> > >Bob, > >I'd love to hear your opinion on the "The Avionics Master - to Protect and >Defend" article in the July Sport Aviation, page 119 by George >Wilhlmsen. I don't know if you recieve it or not, it appears to not be >available online >http://www.eaa.org/benefits/sportaviation/0607_toc.html though I could >probably scan it for you. I let my EAA membership lapse this year. I only go to OSH every 5-10 years (more often to support a client). EAA and Sport Aviation in particular have lost their roots. I just don't find them inspiring any more. I recall having done an article on avionics master switches that was published in SA about 10 years ago but I don't seem to have a copy on this computer. However, here's a longer thread on the topic I captured from some forums back about that same time: See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/avmaster.pdf It's sad to see old flags being run up the pole and saluted year after year. The only argument with strength advanced by modern deacons of the AVMaster Church is that, "not all products offered to the OBAM aircraft community benefit from DO-160 style design." My response is, "Why not?" It's easy to do, it's not a secret process. The only reason folks get away with marketing unnecessarily fragile equipment is because uneducated customers will buy it . . . and then take pains to manually protect the device from gremlins the manufacturer should have taken care of by design. NOT the way to advance the art and science of building airplanes. Bob . . .


    Message 39


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    Time: 07:40:01 PM PST US
    From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    At 06:57 AM 7/5/2006, you wrote: >In a message dated 7/4/2006 9:25:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, >chaztuna@adelphia.net writes: >For the purposes of the alternators we use, the rectifier is >comprised of 6 diodes. These diodes can fail in two modes, open or >short. Failing open (diode blows apart) is the more common >failure mode. In this mode, each diode that fails will reduce the >alternator's output by 1/6th. >Charlie, > >Charlie: > >Why 6 diodes? Half wave rectification only requires 2 diodes. And >Full wave reverification only requires 4 diodes. So why 6 and how >are they hooked up? > >Barry >"Chop'd Liver" Barry, The ND alternators actually DO have 8 diodes. 6 of these rectify the AC current from the 3 windings of the stator into DC current. The main function of the other two diodes is to prevent the battery from discharging back into the alternator when the engine is not running. You have to remember that a DC motor and a generator are very similar. You apply current into a motor to create mechanical motion. With a generator (or alternator in this case) you apply mechanical motion and a magnetic field to create electrical current. If either of these two isolation diodes were to fail short, the battery would discharge into the alternator. The alternator would act like a seized motor. The input current from the battery can not turn over the engine, via the alternator's pulley and drive belt. Have you ever had a vehicle which operated OK when driven daily. Yet, if allowed to sit unused for a number of days, the vehicle would have a dead battery? Shorted isolation diodes in the alternator are one possible cause of this situation. Charlie Kuss


    Message 40


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    Time: 07:44:15 PM PST US
    From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Instrument lighting
    In a message dated 07/06/2006 1:33:31 PM Central Daylight Time, rd2@evenlink.com writes: Would PWM be suitable for LEDs also? >>> Absolutely- I've been using one of the Marlin P. Jones PWM motor speed control kits (as recently mentioned by Charlie Kuss) on my panel lights for 3 years with most satisfactory results. All LEDs (many!) thus fed appear to be happy so far... Mark


    Message 41


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    Time: 08:02:07 PM PST US
    From: "Marty Martin" <martygmartin@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Battery Contactor - HOT...
    I have wing tip (3 light, white, (red or greed) & strobe. I'm putting the firewall together, no engine to *rehang* as this was a flying Q200 to begin with. I woundering if I can just connect the battery to the leads that go to the battery and check the lights for working condition. Maybe I need to wait and rehang the motor. Please let me know. Greg Martin, martygmartin@gmail.com


    Message 42


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    Time: 08:02:11 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 03:19 PM 7/6/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net> > >snipped > > > >John > > > > Positive, forced air cooling of an alternator is never a bad thing > > to do. The question that has always plagued the OBAM aircraft > > community continues to be: "Is cooling necessary?" > > > > Until we mount an effort to gather meaningful temperature data > > internal to the alternator under various electrical loads and > > flight conditions (hot-day, Vx climb), etc. >snipped > > > > We know that very few OBAM aircraft will ever need all of > > the alternator's nameplate power. We also know that cooling > > effectiveness of air movement under the cowl can be strongly > > influenced by changes in baffling, cowl geometry, accessory > > locations, belt ratios, etc. >snipped > > In the past half-dozen or so seminars, I've offered to help > > any interested builder in crafting a test plan and then > > providing them with the data acquisition system that would > > let us investigate alternator cooling issues on their > > airplane. The same activity would work toward development of > > a testing model and an article that might encourage others > > to add further test data to the library. So far, no takers. >snipped > > Bob . . . > >Bob, > Where would you suggest mounting a thermister on an alternator to > monitor temperature? >Charlie Kuss If we were doing the typical full-up temperature survey on an alternator in flight, a thermocouple would be attached to: front bearing casting rear bearing casting diode commoning-plate/heat-sink(s) . . . and finally a thermocouple wedged into a stator winding slot. The DAS would record all thermocouples in the alternator + temperature of incoming cooling air, oat and probably one cht slot. This would be a total of 8 or 9 devices. Temperatures would be recorded about once every 2 seconds. I'd also consider adding a couple of absolute pressure transducers for Palt and Ptotal. We would also record alternator load (I have some precision servoed hall-effect sensors that are easy to install over the b-lead). If this were a certification effort, we'd have to install a load bank to load the machine to nameplate rated output. However, getting three sets of data at min, max and some intermediate load generated by your on-board systems is generally sufficient to extrapolate max load conditions with fair accuracy. Lots of hardware but stuff I keep in inventory (my shop is the last of the 'skunk werks' left at RAC). The laptop is a klunky ol' dos machine running a Power Basic utility that queries two A/D converters modules and writes comma-delimited text files to disk that can be easily sucked into Excel for plotting and analysis. It's easy to set in the right seat, start recording process and forget it until after shutdown. Just keep a time of day log of flight conditions to be achieved as part of a test plan. You game? We could make some real history here and actually KNOW something about a typical OBAM alternator installation. Bob . . .


    Message 43


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    Time: 08:14:48 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> Hmmmm . . . I thought about this and I'm not sure that there's a very good return on investment. An alternator is like prop-governor or fuel pump, it's either working or it isn't. It's a really good idea to see how hot you're getting under worst case conditions as-installed and if those numbers don't make you mess yer drawers, then it's unlikely that any form of instrumentation would give you an advance warning of impending failure. The most likely scenario is that your supper-whizzy alternator watch-dog will bark the same time the low-voltage warning light comes on. Now, if a builder was interested in monitoring how close the alternator is to being maxed-out for present loads -AND- RPM the simple field voltage tap I've described in the Z-figures is a good thing to watch. Most alternators on Lycomings run a field voltage of less than 8 volts even at max load while in cruise conditions. Anything over 8 volts says that you might have a stator lead or a diode opening thus crippling the alternator. I helped chase a rat out of a Falco's alternator system a couple of years ago. We put a temporary field voltmeter wire on the alternator and strung it back to the cabin by taping it to the outside of the airplane. It took about ten minutes in flight to observe field voltage surging upward at the same time the loadmeter was going down. This told us that the brushes were intermittent. On teardown, the brushes were not worn but one of them would hang up in the holder due to some kind of gucky on the side of the brush that didn't get tacky and troublesome until the alternator was warmed up and subject to engine vibration at the same time. Several bench tests at the parts store failed to spot the problem. Bob . . . At 03:40 PM 7/6/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> > > >On Jul 6, 2006, at 2:35 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George >>(Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com> >> >>Just suck the data into an engine monitor like a Dynon and set an >>alarm >>on each parameter. > >The only problem with that is, at least in the case of field voltage >or field current, it varies all over the map. It is proportional to >load (goes up when load is increased) and inversely proportional to >RPM (goes down as RPM increases). This means you have to know what >both the load and the RPM are doing to make sense of the field >voltage reading. I suspect that people will poke at the button and >get a feel for what the field voltage should be in cruise with a >normal load. If it jumps up then they will know that something has >changed in their alternator. This is not something you can set a hard >limit on. > >BTW, Bob, I want one in a 24V flavor too. Maybe we should just use a >4-digit DVM. > >Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way >brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 >+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > >I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 44


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    Time: 08:27:34 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator failure thoughts
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 6, 2006, at 11:01 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > If we were doing the typical full-up temperature survey on an > alternator in flight, a thermocouple would be attached to: > > front bearing casting > rear bearing casting > diode commoning-plate/heat-sink(s) > . . . and finally a thermocouple wedged into > a stator winding slot. You know, the marine and RV alternator guys have solved these problems. I bet they have some good data. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 45


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    Time: 10:20:05 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: alternator health
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 01:14 PM 7/6/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net> > >I'll second that motion .... >It'll make trouble shooting easier. >Jerry Grimmonpre' >Do no archive > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> > >Bob, I loved your original alternator health-O-meter. How about a new >one that measures: > >1. alternator load; >2. alternator voltage; >3. field voltage; >4. alternator frame temperature; > >all in a single, compact, 2.25" instrument. We could program a version of the AEC9011 to watch load (hall effect sensor), field voltage and temperature and light a warning light. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 46


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    Time: 10:34:13 PM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> I know some Piper owners have received belt from Piper dealer in a Gates sleeve, with the Gates number on the belt, and the Piper number hand written in silver pen on the belt. I don't know for sure that it was an automotive number, but believe that is correct. 9335XL Green Stripe or 9335HD. Piper number 73965-015 formerly #452-541 James H Nelson wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com> > > Charlie, > I sell V-Belts for a living and other assorted sundry for > industrial items like bearings. There is two styles of "V" belts. one > configuration is "industrial" and the other is "automotive". The > difference is in the angle that makes the v-belt. The automotive is a > narrow "V" and the industrial "V" is a wider angle "V".. Industrial > belts are designated by their size. The first letter or number usually > designates the top width. Such as A-35 belt. This is a 1/2" wide belt > that is 35" in circumference on the inside. A 4L370 is physically the > same just a light duty "A" series. (don't ask !!) Think of the "L" > meaning light duty. There is a series called "3V or 3VX that is almost > the exact match to the belts used on aircraft engines. I will bring > home a 3vx belt and check it out on my engine. That should put the > confusion and sources to rest. > > > Jim Nelson > > > > > > > >


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    Time: 10:46:35 PM PST US
    From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
    Subject: VM-1000 current sensor question
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net> I've been looking at this VM1000 current sensor (it looks like some sort of hall effect sensor with 4 terminals, it's a coil you slide over the wire, no connection needed). Originally I had it on the feed line from the alternator but realized that I would only get readings of zero and greater than zero on the display if I did that. So I thought I'd put it around the fat wire that connects to the battery positive terminal and get both discharge and charge readings. But....re-reading the VM-1000 manual and looking at their display silk-screening, it appears that the display is only designed to read a positive rate of charge from the alternator (0 to +60 amps). I don't have everything connected yet so I can't actually fire it up and test it. You VM1000 users, is this true? Does it NOT read and display negative amperes when the battery is discharging and the alternator is not running (or failed)? Is everyone installing this sensor on the alternator feed line or are some of you doing something else??? if so what???? and why? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Plodding along to blissful completion.


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    Time: 11:54:43 PM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Alternator Belt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/6/06 9:17:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nuckollsr@cox.net writes: > There's no such thing as an "aircraft alternator belt". There > are thousands of belts by hundreds of manufacturers and they > range in SERVICE LIFE from mediocre to the best-we-know how > to do. ====================================== Don't tell that to the FAA! Here are the part numbers: ALT BELT: 37A19773-37 <--- FAA Approved and with an FAA - PMA stamp. This is the Gates Automotive equivalent: (gates belt 3V375). Now, as I have stated before, there are quality differences. I have noted that when it comes to Original Timing Belts and Serpentine Belts. The FACTORY ORIGINAL is of much better quality than OEM or Auto Store items. See my long post with explanation ... It should be in the archives. Barry "Chop'd Liver"




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