---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/10/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 AM - Re: 22000 MF Capacitor (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 2. 05:00 AM - LM-317 dimmer (was: Instrument Lighting) (Brian Lloyd) 3. 10:48 AM - Ammeter Shunt (Mark Chamberlain) 4. 11:23 AM - Re: Ammeter Shunt (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 5. 12:14 PM - Re: Note #10 on Z-12 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 12:29 PM - Re: VM-1000 current sensor question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 01:46 PM - Wingtip Grounding (MLWynn@aol.com) 8. 02:21 PM - Re: Wingtip Grounding (Ralph E. Capen) 9. 02:39 PM - Re: Wingtip Grounding (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 10. 03:08 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/09/06 (gary.stiffler@kroger.com) 11. 03:25 PM - External voltage regulator Connections (Dennis Haverlah) 12. 04:17 PM - Re: Wingtip Grounding (LarryRobertHelming) 13. 04:17 PM - Re: Ammeter Shunt (LarryRobertHelming) 14. 07:51 PM - Re: External voltage regulator Connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:00 PM - Oops! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 10:08 PM - Small diameter landing light () 18. 11:39 PM - Re: Small diameter landing light (Gilles Thesee) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:54 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 22000 MF Capacitor --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/1/06 6:18:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, twalker@cableone.net writes: > I'm wiring my Rotax 912 and I have the above capacitor. I can't understand > the markings on the two terminals. one of the terminals has a dab of black > paint on it and the other is clear. Can someone tell me what the polarity > of these two terminals is/are? > > Many thanks, > > Tommy Walker in Alabama ========================== Tommy: Have you received the information you were looking for? Sounds like you have an Electrolytic Capacitor. The 'MF' could also be written as "uF' which is read as Micro-Farads. The Black is Ground and the Clear is Positive. To verify this there should also be a voltage marking in the range of 16 to 100 VDC maybe even higher. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:40 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: AeroElectric-List: LM-317 dimmer (was: Instrument Lighting) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd The LM-317 is an adjustable *linear* voltage regulator. Think of it as a power resistor that adjusts itself to always maintain the same voltage at its output. By varying that voltage you can vary the brightness of the lamps. There is a drawback to this type of regulator; it must dissipate the power represented by the voltage drop across the regulator (voltage difference between the input and output). For example, if the input is 14V and you have the output voltage set at about 50% (about 7 volts) for low-to-medium brightness for your lamps, and your lamps draw about 1 amp, the regulator has to dissipate 7 watts ( [14V-7V] x 1A). Like the resistor it is going to get quite hot. You need to make sure it has a good heat sink to get rid of the heat. But if your lamp loads are low (perhaps you are using LED lighting) then the LM-317 won't have to dissipate much power. It may be 30-year- old technology but it does work pretty well. This is where a variable switching regulator or a pulse-width- modulator (PWM) is better. These devices dissipate very little heat to achieve the same thing. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:18 AM PST US From: "Mark Chamberlain" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter Shunt --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" Hi All, I am about to install the Dynon Ammeter Shunt that comes with the 180 FlightDeck. It can be installed in 3 locations that can read either: 1. Amps in and out of battery (-60a to 60a), 2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only 3. Amps used by aircraft load only. My question is: where would be the best location to put it? Suggestions welcomed. Thanks for your help, Mark RV-7 (234C Res) Engine/Wiring ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:23:10 AM PST US From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter Shunt --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Ahh...Therein lies the question. I personally put it in the Alternator B lead. In fact I have 2 alternators so I purchased an extra shunt and put one in each b lead...I used a changeover switch labelled amps#1 and Amps#2. I use the SD8 as a backup and will simply flip the switch over to read how the SD8 is performing compared to knowing how many amps it will make at say 2600RPM. Frank -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Chamberlain Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 10:40 AM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" --> Hi All, I am about to install the Dynon Ammeter Shunt that comes with the 180 FlightDeck. It can be installed in 3 locations that can read either: 1. Amps in and out of battery (-60a to 60a), 2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only 3. Amps used by aircraft load only. My question is: where would be the best location to put it? Suggestions welcomed. Thanks for your help, Mark RV-7 (234C Res) Engine/Wiring ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:14:56 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Note #10 on Z-12 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:32 PM 7/8/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Bob, > > I was putting together my contactors, current limiters, and shunts via > Z-12. My question comes in with the current limiter near the starter > contactor. I m using an auto conversion, and using an automotive starter > with a solenoid on the starter. Mounting the CL near the starter does not > really work out for me. Then feed the alternator to the down-stream side of the battery contactor and mount the limiter there . . . > The note in the aeroelectric bible says "Consider installing the breaker > (or fuse) as close as possible to the starter contactor" Can you > elaborate? Is it an alternator noise issue? No, it protects the altenrator b-lead which can tie into the system at either the starter contactor or the battery contactor . . . > Is it going to cause me grief in the future? The CL will be on the > firewall, and the starter and soleoid will be right up near the prop > about 24 inches away. Is that going to cause me issues, other that > running big wire up there? > >Just wanting to fully understand. No big deal. Use the alternate location. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:27 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VM-1000 current sensor question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" This conversation has run far-afield . . . Consider that as long as your low-volts warning light is OFF, there is nothing helpful for aviating or navigating offered by any display of amps in any part of the system. When the low volts light does come on, it's wise to have "plan-b" in the hip pocket for comfortable termination of flight, preferably at the airport of intended destination. Again, whatever the amps display is saying is not useful to the task at hand. When it comes time to troubleshoot the system, there is no single measurement point for amps that will minimize the efforts needed to troubleshoot the system. The repair task almost always requires probing the system for a LOT more data than what is offered by panel displays. I'll suggest there is no right, better, wrong, or best place to put an ammeter sense point. Every one of the classic locations offers some data that is useful only if you know the significance of the data and how to interpret it. But using any such data in flight for diagnosis is not a useful thing to do . . . it's never helpful for comfortably completing the flight. No matter where you choose to put the sense point(s), they will be only the beginning of a future troubleshooting effort. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:28 PM PST US From: MLWynn@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Grounding Hi folks, I am getting towards completion of the wings on an RV-8. At the wing tips, I will have strobes, nav lights, landing lights and antennae. I was scratching my head about grounding these things. The wing spar is a lovely ground spot. The outboard-most rib is primed and hence is not a good ground point. I was thinking about drilling a 3/16 or so hole in the spar just inboard from the last rib, inserting a bolt and then using the bolt as a common terminal for the ground side of the above components. Does that seem reasonable? Is there a better way to do this? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 San Ramon, CA ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:15 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Grounding --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:19 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Grounding --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/10/06 4:49:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MLWynn@aol.com writes: > Hi folks, > > I am getting towards completion of the wings on an RV-8. At the wing tips, > > I will have strobes, nav lights, landing lights and antennae. I was > scratching my head about grounding these things. The wing spar is a lovely > ground > spot. The outboard-most rib is primed and hence is not a good ground point. > I > was thinking about drilling a 3/16 or so hole in the spar just inboard from > > the last rib, inserting a bolt and then using the bolt as a common terminal > > for the ground side of the above components. Does that seem reasonable? > Is > there a better way to do this? > > Regards, > > Michael Wynn > RV 8 > San Ramon, CA ============================ Michael: How are you running all those wires out to the wing tip? I would suggest a plastic tube about 3/4 to 1" ID Now that you have the tube and the wires out there just run a #12 wire all the way out there Do the Double Nut & Bolt through the rib idea you mentioned BUT, now you can locate the Nut & Bolt at an easy to access point ... Use BRASS Nut & Bolt with a star washer under the first nut. Then use a washer stack your ground lugs and another star washer & nut. O! Still want to use the wing as a ground ... Go right ahead run that wing ground out to the same Nut & Bolt configuration you just installed. Years later when yo would want to run another wire for what ever reason ... EASY no crazy fishing and cursing to do ;-) Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:02 PM PST US From: gary.stiffler@kroger.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 07/09/06 >As you have guess and from your description they are FEED-THROUGH Capacitors. >Their value is probably in the range of .001 to .01 uF at 20 VDC (WVDC) or >more. The voltage should be MORE than the system voltage by 50% and if you >find one at 100 VDC (WVDC) you can use that also ... Not critical. >I'm not understanding your description about the other item. That sounds >like an Electrolytic capacitor (Polarized ... + & - leads) that is hooked between >the 'S' terminal of the ACU and Ground. It's purpose is to filter out NOISE >& Spikes. The value of that can be anywhere from say 25,000 uF to 200,000 uF >and of course the voltage rating should be as described above. Everyone: Thanks for the reply, I did not do a good job of describing the second cylinder that looks like a cap. It has a terminal on each end. One is connected to the regulator and the other is connected to the alternator. It had a wire that went into the bakelite on one end that was connected to the airplane frame ground. I am guessing it is also to eliminate noise. Does anyone have an idea where I can buy these? Thanks for all of the help. Gary N592GS AA1B ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:51 PM PST US From: Dennis Haverlah Subject: AeroElectric-List: External voltage regulator Connections --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Haverlah I converted my RX-8 computer controlled alternator (100 amp) to externally regulated. I purchased an Auto Zone VR 749 external regulator for a 100 amp alternator. I have a question on how to connect the regulator to the system. This is my best guess for the four pins - I, A, S , and F- on the regulator. 1). F on regulator goes to ungrounded brush in alternator. 2) A and S pins on regulator tie together and get fed from 5 amp breaker and switch. 3). I have no clue about the I pin on the regulator - I'm guessing it is either an indicator light feed or connects to the ignition switch. 4). The B terminal on the alternator connects to the + at the contactor. Anyone have better information? Thanks, Dennis H. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:07 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Grounding That is the way I did mine but I cleaned off the primer and put it in the end rib. Works fine. Larry in Indiana ----- Original Message ----- From: MLWynn@aol.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wingtip Grounding Hi folks, I am getting towards completion of the wings on an RV-8. At the wing tips, I will have strobes, nav lights, landing lights and antennae. I was scratching my head about grounding these things. The wing spar is a lovely ground spot. The outboard-most rib is primed and hence is not a good ground point. I was thinking about drilling a 3/16 or so hole in the spar just inboard from the last rib, inserting a bolt and then using the bolt as a common terminal for the ground side of the above components. Does that seem reasonable? Is there a better way to do this? Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 San Ramon, CA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:07 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ammeter Shunt --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I did mine with #2 of your possible choices. Works fine. Shows me what seems to be the load being consumed and therefore being produced by the Alt. Larry in Indiana with RV7 flying ----- Original Message ----- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" > > > Hi All, > > > I am about to install the Dynon Ammeter Shunt that comes with the 180 > FlightDeck. It can be installed in 3 locations that can read either: > 1. Amps > in and out of battery (-60a to 60a), > 2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only > 3. Amps used by aircraft load only. > > > My question is: where would be the best location to put it? Suggestions > welcomed. > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: External voltage regulator Connections --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 05:22 PM 7/10/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Haverlah > > >I converted my RX-8 computer controlled alternator (100 amp) to >externally regulated. I purchased an Auto Zone VR 749 external regulator >for a 100 amp alternator. I have a question on how to connect the >regulator to the system. >This is my best guess for the four pins - I, A, S , and F- on the regulator. >1). F on regulator goes to ungrounded brush in alternator. >2) A and S pins on regulator tie together and get fed from 5 amp breaker >and switch. >3). I have no clue about the I pin on the regulator - I'm guessing it is >either an indicator light feed or connects to the ignition switch. Leave "I" unconnected. The VR-749 is one of several versions of the generic "Ford" regulator described in Note 21 and Figure Z-23 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11H.pdf >4). The B terminal on the alternator connects to the + at the contactor. yes. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:25 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:05 PM 7/10/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >As you have guess and from your description they are FEED-THROUGH > Capacitors. > >Their value is probably in the range of .001 to .01 uF at 20 VDC (WVDC) or > >more. The voltage should be MORE than the system voltage by 50% and if you > >find one at 100 VDC (WVDC) you can use that also ... Not critical. > > >I'm not understanding your description about the other item. That sounds > >like an Electrolytic capacitor (Polarized ... + & - leads) that is > hooked between > > >the 'S' terminal of the ACU and Ground. It's purpose is to filter out > NOISE > >& Spikes. The value of that can be anywhere from say 25,000 uF to > 200,000 uF > >and of course the voltage rating should be as described above. > >Everyone: > >Thanks for the reply, I did not do a good job of describing the second >cylinder that looks like a cap. It has a terminal on each end. One is >connected to the regulator and the other is connected to the alternator. >It had a wire that went into the bakelite on one end that was connected to >the airplane frame ground. I am guessing it is also to eliminate noise. >Does anyone have an idea where I can buy these? > >Thanks for all of the help. Try running without them and see what happens. Do you fly with and ADF much? Most of those caps were added to reduce if not eliminate alternator noise in the ADF. If you don't fly with ADF, then perhaps you don't even need them. If it turns out that you do need them, it's unlikely that you'll find an exact match in anyone's aviation stock. That style of filter has become rare. There are some surplus houses with New Old Stock that might offer a substitute with satisfactory performance to the task. See: http://www.surplussales.com/Feedthrus/FTflangeMt.html Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:11 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Oops! --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" While working on revision J to Appedix Z, I discovered that while revision H had been completed a month ago, it never got posted! So, for the next few days, you can get the latest update only a month late . . . Rev J is 90% done and will get posted probably before next weekend. See: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:52 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Small diameter landing light --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: I have fooled a bit with different lights to be used as landing lights. Thus far the bigger the parabolic reflector, the better they seem to work. Why is it that a huge reflector works better than a smaller one? Is it that perfect aim of a specific spot on reflector is less critical with a larger reflector? Anyone know of a small diameter light (preferless than 2.5") that is suitable for a landing light and does not make too much heat? Anyone using a Hella Xenon? Are they as close to a standard cessna landing light? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:29 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Small diameter landing light --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > Anyone using a Hella Xenon? We used a XeVison. No probems, except the price. Some buddies installed Hella lights. Some have experienced noise problems with the Hella. http://contrails.free.fr/elec_hid.php > Are they as close to a standard cessna landing > light? > Not sure I understand your question. The HID lights are bright and their current draw is low. Some months ago someone raised a visibility issue. That's old wife's tales. FWIW, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr