AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/11/06


Total Messages Posted: 13



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:42 AM - Re: External voltage regulator Connections (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     2. 04:53 AM - Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection (Jim Ellis)
     3. 06:08 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection (Werner Schneider)
     4. 06:29 AM - Re: External voltage regulator Connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs - (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 06:29 AM - Oops! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 07:01 AM - Re: Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
     8. 07:08 AM - Converting to external regulators (Ernest Christley)
     9. 08:21 AM - Re: Small diameter landing light  (fiveonepw@aol.com)
    10. 04:50 PM - Ammeter Shunt ()
    11. 04:53 PM - Grounding lugs and transponder radiation (John McMahon)
    12. 07:00 PM - Re: Grounding lugs and transponder radiation (Brian Lloyd)
    13. 07:10 PM - Re: Ammeter Shunt (Brian Lloyd)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:42:45 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: External voltage regulator Connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/10/06 6:27:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, clouduster@austin.rr.com writes: > Anyone have better information? > > Thanks, > Dennis H. ============================== Dennis: I = INDICATOR A = ALTERNATOR S = SWITCH F = FIELD BULB/LED GOES TO I AND TO +12 VDC ALT FIELD Go to the ZIFTRONICS website and download their instruction sheet. Barry "Chop'd Liver"


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:53:53 AM PST US
    From: "Jim Ellis" <JEllis9847@aol.com>
    Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Ellis" <JEllis9847@aol.com> I have been trying to find out if anyone has ever been able to make a working gps serial connection between a Blue Mountain EFIS and a TruTrak autopilot. I have made many phone calls and searched all the web sites. According the BMA the G3 Lite will provide a gps output through one of its two serial ports in either GPSS (UPS GPS) or standard NMEA-0183 format. OK. According to TruTrak their autopilots will accept and read GPSS or NMEA-0183 format (with the correct baud setting programed into the autopilot). OK. Now here's the strange part. None of the tech reps at either company can confirm that their units will work with the other. Nor do they know if anyone anywhere has ever made a working connection between the two systems. I find this very odd that the manufacturers don't know the basic compatibility of the equipment they sell. Here is my question for the List. Do you know or have you heard of anyone who has ever made a working gps serial connection between any Blue Mountain EFIS and any TruTrak autopilot? If so, I would love to hear from you. Jim Ellis RV9-A, Flying (Yippee!) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=46309#46309


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:08:03 AM PST US
    From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
    Subject: Re: Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net> Jim, log with hyperterm (or even another better terminal emulation) a sequence of the BMA (as it is the active component) and send it to trutrak (passive component). I had to do that 4 years ago, when my Garmin 196 did not work with my digitrack (old SW version). They were very helpful and sent me a new digitrack for free. NMEA-0183 is a set of standard commands, but how the BMA does output it's path direction is not standardized. br Werner Jim Ellis wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Ellis" <JEllis9847@aol.com> > >I have been trying to find out if anyone has ever been able to make a working gps serial connection between a Blue Mountain EFIS and a TruTrak autopilot. I have made many phone calls and searched all the web sites. > >According the BMA the G3 Lite will provide a gps output through one of its two serial ports in either GPSS (UPS GPS) or standard NMEA-0183 format. > >OK. > >According to TruTrak their autopilots will accept and read GPSS or NMEA-0183 format (with the correct baud setting programed into the autopilot). > >OK. > >Now here's the strange part. None of the tech reps at either company can confirm that their units will work with the other. Nor do they know if anyone anywhere has ever made a working connection between the two systems. I find this very odd that the manufacturers don't know the basic compatibility of the equipment they sell. > >Here is my question for the List. Do you know or have you heard of anyone who has ever made a working gps serial connection between any Blue Mountain EFIS and any TruTrak autopilot? If so, I would love to hear from you. > >Jim Ellis >RV9-A, Flying (Yippee!) > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=46309#46309 > > > > > > > > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:29:39 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: External voltage regulator Connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 05:22 PM 7/10/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Haverlah ><clouduster@austin.rr.com> > >I converted my RX-8 computer controlled alternator (100 amp) to >externally regulated. I purchased an Auto Zone VR 749 external regulator >for a 100 amp alternator. I have a question on how to connect the >regulator to the system. >This is my best guess for the four pins - I, A, S , and F- on the regulator. >1). F on regulator goes to ungrounded brush in alternator. >2) A and S pins on regulator tie together and get fed from 5 amp breaker >and switch. >3). I have no clue about the I pin on the regulator - I'm guessing it is >either an indicator light feed or connects to the ignition switch. Leave "I" unconnected. The VR-749 is one of several versions of the generic "Ford" regulator described in Note 21 and Figure Z-23 of http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11H.pdf >4). The B terminal on the alternator connects to the + at the contactor. yes. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:29:40 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 6 Msgs -
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 06:05 PM 7/10/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >As you have guess and from your description they are FEED-THROUGH > Capacitors. > >Their value is probably in the range of .001 to .01 uF at 20 VDC (WVDC) or > >more. The voltage should be MORE than the system voltage by 50% and if you > >find one at 100 VDC (WVDC) you can use that also ... Not critical. > > >I'm not understanding your description about the other item. That sounds > >like an Electrolytic capacitor (Polarized ... + & - leads) that is > hooked between > > >the 'S' terminal of the ACU and Ground. It's purpose is to filter out > NOISE > >& Spikes. The value of that can be anywhere from say 25,000 uF to > 200,000 uF > >and of course the voltage rating should be as described above. > >Everyone: > >Thanks for the reply, I did not do a good job of describing the second >cylinder that looks like a cap. It has a terminal on each end. One is >connected to the regulator and the other is connected to the alternator. >It had a wire that went into the bakelite on one end that was connected to >the airplane frame ground. I am guessing it is also to eliminate noise. >Does anyone have an idea where I can buy these? > >Thanks for all of the help. Try running without them and see what happens. Do you fly with and ADF much? Most of those caps were added to reduce if not eliminate alternator noise in the ADF. If you don't fly with ADF, then perhaps you don't even need them. If it turns out that you do need them, it's unlikely that you'll find an exact match in anyone's aviation stock. That style of filter has become rare. There are some surplus houses with New Old Stock that might offer a substitute with satisfactory performance to the task. See: http://www.surplussales.com/Feedthrus/FTflangeMt.html Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:29:40 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Oops!
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> While working on revision J to Appedix Z, I discovered that while revision H had been completed a month ago, it never got posted! So, for the next few days, you can get the latest update only a month late . . . Rev J is 90% done and will get posted probably before next weekend. See: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:01:10 AM PST US
    From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
    Subject: Blue Mountain EFIS to TruTrak Connection
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> <SNIP> Now here's the strange part. None of the tech reps at either company can confirm that their units will work with the other. Nor do they know if anyone anywhere has ever made a working connection between the two systems. I find this very odd that the manufacturers don't know the basic compatibility of the equipment they sell. <SNIP> Not strange at all. It is very common for vendors to support standards and yet have not tested it to all of the different equipment out there. That is why they build to a standard, it predisposes it to work. Of course that doesn't mean that neither of them may have made improvements to the standard and rendering it unusable with other equipment built to the standard. Reminds me of Microsoft. I would concentrate troubleshooting on the part that is sending the data. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:08:24 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Converting to external regulators
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com> AeroElectric-List Digest Server wrote: >Time: 03:25:51 PM PST US >From: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com> >Subject: AeroElectric-List: External voltage regulator Connections > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com> > >I converted my RX-8 computer controlled alternator (100 amp) to >externally regulated. > > I have been reading these IVR vs EVR arguments for so long I must be getting senile. I'm sure this idea has been covered, but for the life of me I can't remember when and I can't find a reference to it in my archives. George makes a good point that the IVR was designed to work in a specific way by smart people with lots of money to spend on the problem; a way that does not include people turning it off and on. Bob makes an excellent point that the pilot has always had complete control over the power producing entity, and there is little reason to give that up now. The choice seems to be that you must choose one or the other. But wouldn't it be a simple modification to break the wires going to the field brushes and bring them out to a double throw panel switch? The IVR functionality is maintained, load dump of the field coil has no where to go (double throw to break both sides of the path simultaneously), and the pilot has complete control. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:21:37 AM PST US
    From: fiveonepw@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Small diameter landing light
    These have worked well for me with 100w halogen bulbs: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5257 Scroll through the pages using the >>Next entry>> link at the top of each page & click on fotos for bigger view. Mark Phillips -----Original Message----- --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> Anyone know of a small diameter light (preferless than 2.5") that is suitable for a landing light and does not make too much heat? ________________________________________________________________________


    Message 10


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    Time: 04:50:37 PM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Ammeter Shunt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <bakerocb@cox.net> 7/11/2006 Responding to an AeroElectric-List message previously posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <mchamberlain@runbox.com> Hello Mark, I would appreciate some help from you and others to better understand this subject. You wrote: "1. Amps in and out of battery (-60a to 60a)" I understand the above statement and how to wire in order to measure all of those amps. If one puts the shunt in the wire going from the battery plus terminal to the input to the battery contactor you will be able (with the proper kind of guage) to measure all of the amps going into and out of the battery itself. This presumes that: A) The alternator B lead is connected to the battery through the contactor output terminal, and B) That you are operating such that you don't have some sort of endurance / essential bus or hot battery bus, also connected directly to the battery plus terminal, that is feeding amps to some portion of the aircraft's system not through the wire going to the battery contactor. You wrote: "3. Amps used by aircraft load only." I understand how this can be measured by placing the shunt in a wire going from the battery contactor output terminal to the aircraft's main power distribution bus. Amps from the alternator, which has its B lead connected to the battery contactor output terminal, and, if need be, amps from the battery, would flow through this shunt to carry the aircraft system's load. Again with no "back door" flows not going through this wire. You wrote: "2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only." I am not sure what you mean by this statement. Do you mean "Only the amps that are flowing from the alternator into the battery and none of the amps that are flowing from the alternator into the aircraft systems?" Assuming that we are talking about a simple system with only one battery and one alternator there are only two sources of amps possible -- the battery and the alternator. Recall that the amperage flowing into the battery from the alternator is one of the two things being measured as wired in scenario 1 above. Can you please explain what you mean by statement 2 and how one would wire to accomplish it? I know that Bob Nuckolls has a very low opininion of some electrical instrumentation in the aircraft's instrument panel and the pilot's expectations of beneficially using that instrumentation in flight. I am basically in agreement with him and am not trying to wire an airplane. I just want to better understand the concepts involved. Thanks. OC Time: 10:48:18 AM PST US --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <mchamberlain@runbox.com> Hi All, I am about to install the Dynon Ammeter Shunt that comes with the 180 FlightDeck. It can be installed in 3 locations that can read either: 1. Amps in and out of battery (-60a to 60a), 2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only 3. Amps used by aircraft load only. My question is: where would be the best location to put it? Suggestions welcomed. Thanks for your help, Mark


    Message 11


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    Time: 04:53:20 PM PST US
    From: "John McMahon" <blackoaks@gmail.com>
    Subject: Grounding lugs and transponder radiation
    Bob, In your writings you suggest a grounding or through firewall brass bolt of 5/16" diameter. In your article on local grounding, the notation on the photo suggests a 1/4" or 5/16" bolt. Lancair used 1/4" studs through the firewall on my ES. Are these sufficient or should I change them to 5/16"? I'm using #2 welding cable for my big wires. Second question regards the transmission of the transponder signal. Does the signal rediate from the shaft and the ball or only the ball at the tip? I have a suggestion for future revisions. The military flight manuals mark the revised material in each change with a dark bar in the margin. I don't know it would be possible for you do do something similar with your word processor to make finding the changes in your text revisions. Thanks for all your information and insights, also your PATIENCE. We got a lot out of and very much enjoyed the Prescott seminar. > > John McMahon Lancair Super ES


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:00:47 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Grounding lugs and transponder radiation
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 11, 2006, at 7:36 PM, John McMahon wrote: > Second question regards the transmission of the transponder > signal. Does the signal rediate from the shaft and the ball or > only the ball at the tip? The signal is radiated only from the shaft of the antenna. The ball is just there mainly to keep people from getting hurt when they bump into it. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 13


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    Time: 07:10:58 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Ammeter Shunt
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 11, 2006, at 7:40 PM, <bakerocb@cox.net> <bakerocb@cox.net> wrote: > You wrote: "2. Amps in to the battery from the alternator only." > > I am not sure what you mean by this statement. Do you mean "Only > the amps that are flowing from the alternator into the battery and > none of the amps that are flowing from the alternator into the > aircraft systems?" > > Assuming that we are talking about a simple system with only one > battery and one alternator there are only two sources of amps > possible -- the battery and the alternator. Recall that the > amperage flowing into the battery from the alternator is one of the > two things being measured as wired in scenario 1 above. > > Can you please explain what you mean by statement 2 and how one > would wire to accomplish it? I think that he meant the output of the alternator so it was a misprint. Still, if you think about it, if you have a shunt in the lead to the battery, when the alternator is working that shunt will measure only current from the alternator to the battery. If the alternator is off-line that same shunt will show all the loads as they are now being powered by the battery, not the alternator. > I know that Bob Nuckolls has a very low opininion of some > electrical instrumentation in the aircraft's instrument panel and > the pilot's expectations of beneficially using that instrumentation > in flight. I am basically in agreement with him and am not trying > to wire an airplane. I just want to better understand the concepts > involved. Thanks. I am a fan of the alternator load meter. It is amazing how, during the day you look down at that ammeter and wonder why there are about 5A more load than usual. That is when you realize that you inadvertently left the position lights on from your last night flight. (And if any of you tell me you haven't done this I will say that you are not telling the whole truth.) For what it's worth, I actually see a use for the battery ammeter. I like to see how long it takes the battery to stop accepting current from the alternator. This tells me when the battery has replaced its lost charge. The time also gives me an inkling of battery capacity. When the battery has lost most of its capacity it will "recharge" much more quickly than usual. It is another one of those things that you just get a feel for, kind of like the way the engine sounds and where the controls are under normal circumstances. Oil pressure is not a particularly useful gauge until it says something new and different too. It is just another one of those ways that you "feel" the way the airplane and its systems are working. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry




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