Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:21 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
2. 02:21 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
3. 02:34 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
4. 03:52 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
5. 04:38 AM - Pitot heat suggestions (William Crook)
6. 06:22 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
7. 06:56 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
8. 07:22 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting ()
9. 07:42 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:25 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 08:31 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:34 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
13. 09:21 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Jeff Moreau)
14. 01:25 PM - Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Paul Weismann)
15. 03:24 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Brian Lloyd)
16. 03:24 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Brian Lloyd)
17. 05:28 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
18. 06:40 PM - Re: Workbench layout for (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 06:55 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (William Gill)
20. 06:55 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Charlie England)
21. 08:44 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 09:02 PM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 09:05 PM - Re: SD-8 ALTERNATOR MOD FOR SELF EXCITATION (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/06 10:23:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
wgill10@comcast.net writes:
> Hello All,
>
> I'm mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7. Where
> can I find information pertaining to doubler requirement? Also, a cork
> gasket/seal is installed between the Comant antenna base and the
> fuselage skin - is the antenna base grounded to the fuselage via the
> mounting screws since the cork seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks.
>
> Bill Gill
> RV-7 wiring
> Lee's Summit, MO
=================================
Bill:
It is just good practice to reinforce an antenna mounting with a doubler. In
most if not all antenna packages a doubler is supplied.
Considering the design of an antenna you have a lot of unsupported material
just dangling out in the breeze, better to support it than to take the chance
of metal fatigue due to concentrated vibration points.
As for the electrical grounding ... YES ... You are correct, the grounding is
accomplished through the screws. So you can imagine that a doubler installed
against the unpainted aluminum, followed up with good screws and lock washers
will do much to improve everything associated with the ground and function of
the antenna.
One small trick with the cork seal, put a light smear of RTV on both sides of
the cork. This is not a major trick but it will keep out moisture and
improve the seal.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/06 10:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
fvalarm@rapidnet.net writes:
> What about soldering wire female leads to the terminals.
>
> Bevan
> RV7A finish kit
=====================
Brevan:
Soldering in 99% of the cases is a NO-NO. Even though we are experimental we
still have to follow good building procedures and AC 43-13 A&B. Soldering
creates HARD POINTS that are subject to vibration failure. Do I solder? In
some cases YES ;-) But not in this case. Use crimp-ons.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/06 12:03:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dsvs@comcast.net writes:
> Bob,
> Is the silver solder just for heat resistance? If I am not mistaken silver
> solder is not as good a conductor as tin/lead, or is that an old wives
tale?
> Don
>
====================
Don:
There are many Old Wife's Tails out there and the Internet does a tremendous
job at propagating them and producing even more. But, SILVER is a Much, Much
better conductor than tin or lead. Just look at the Periodic Table of
Elements. Silver has more free electrons than the other two. Or just look up the
conductivity of silver. While you are at it check out GOLD, PLATINUM, COPPER and
especially ALUMINUM.
And then consider how good your electrical system is.
Silver solder is around for other reasons other than conductivity. STRENGTH
is its major consideration. It is quite a bit stronger than electrical
solder. Silver solder is broken down into two classifications:
Silver bearing (NO! Not like ball bearings) and Percentage Silver. Unless
you request a particular percentage you will get silver bearing and that is only
3% Silver MAX.
BTW ... If you have purchased solder in the past few years, especially if
you purchased it through Radio Shack you did NOT get Tin/Lead solder ... The
LEAD has been removed. Too many environmentalist chewing on circuit boards.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/24/06 11:01:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmoreau2@cox.net writes:
> What position are you mounting them in. I am getting ready for bent
> whips on the belly of my RV8A. I was wondering how close together
> you are mounting them.
> Are they side=by side, or in line with the centerline of the
> fuselage. Any info would be appreciated.
> Jeff Moreau
> Virginia Beach, VA
============================
Jeff:
By definition bent whips are belly mounted.
Keeping antennas as far apart as possible is always a good thing. If I
recall the minimum distance recommended is 36" . Yet that is very hard to
maintain. I have two mounted on the belly under the leg area of an RV-6 only about
20" apart. I do not have any front end overload or directivity to the pattern.
If I was building the plane and had access to the tail easier I would install
them in line on the center line (rivets permitting) and the recommended 36+"
apart.
You might also want to take note that COM #2 is usually mounted on top of the
plane. This is to aid in better ground communication while on the ground.
While Com #1 is used in the air. Once airborne Com 1 & 2 do work very well in
the air.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 5
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Subject: | Pitot heat suggestions |
Bob & Barry,
Thanks for your suggestions. I'm at the very beginning of the wiring phase, so
the savings of Bob's suggestion covers the cost of a decent solder gun. Will
Radio Shack sell the silver solder?
As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage to a
common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that fold) comming
back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage seems to me
to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together.
Will Crook
Waynesville, NC
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
Bill,
I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the fuselage
across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up through (for one
antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with very little weight gain.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 7/24/2006 10:23:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
wgill10@comcast.net writes:
Hello All,
I=99m mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7. Wh
ere can I
find information pertaining to doubler requirement? Also, a cork gasket/sea
l
is installed between the Comant antenna base and the fuselage skin
=93 is the
antenna base grounded to the fuselage via the mounting screws since the cor
k
seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks.
Bill Gill
RV-7 wiring
Lee=99s Summit, MO
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Pitot heat suggestions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/06 7:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
will@willcrook.com writes:
> Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder?
>
> As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage
to
> a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that
fold)
> comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage
seems
> to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together.
>
> Will Crook
> Waynesville, NC
=================================
Will:
Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6%
Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round crimp
terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember,
maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
Bill:
Yes the ground is thru the screws so make sure there is no
primer and the nut plates are grounded to the airframe,
assuming you will use nut plates which is highly recommend.
The primary load is air drag load, which is very small. You
can go crazy and make very large structural doubler's. Back
in the old days with huge ADF and VOR flying wing antenna's
structural doubler's where important. Your light weight bent
com antenna is tiny compared to those lead sails.
The belly on the RV is very thick. If you are in the area fwd of
the main spar, not much doubling is needed. You do want local
stability to keep it from flexing.
Old FAA best practices AC 43 12-2A (chap 1)
structures, shows antenna doubler's.
Here are some ideas from the FAA AC source:
If you place the antenna near a stiffener or rib, a good idea,
you can bend an angle into the doubler to joggle or butt
against the rib or angle and rivet to that. It's standard. to
fill the whole BAY from stiffener to stiffener laterally wide. Your
doubler will be square/rectangle from stiffener to stiffener and
the width, fwd/aft, will be long enough to extend past the
antenna foot print by 1.5" min on each end or to a frame.
The above is ideal an very strong but not needed for a
small COM antenna on a thick skin belly. If you put the
antenna near a stiffiner the doubler may not be needed,
at least on the RV forward belly.
A traditional doubler, lets say just plop it right in the middle
of a skin bay, has the same foot print but twice as large and
one gage up from the basic material.
So with a COM antenna you would have a tear drop airfoil
shape about 8.5" long x 5.25 wide (approx give or take). Min
edge width or edge margin should be 1.5" from edge of
antenna foot print. You don't necessarily need to attach to
a nearby stiffener or frame but depends on the skin thickness
and size of antenna.
What some do is make a local doubler with the nut plates
and than attach the doubler to the skin with just a few rivets.
That way you are not putting a bunch of small 3/32 rivets
for the nut plates into the structural skin. Just make sure
the screws have a ground path to the airframe with bare
metal or ground straps.
I suggest you put the COM antenna on the pilot side, just
forward of the spar. You can make access to the coax while
fairly well protected and out of the way. If you ever want to
attach a portable radio to it you just reach down and
remove the coax and attach a coax jumper from the antenna
to the handheld radio (emergency only). Just a suggestion or
idea. You can get fancy with panel splitters and so on but
this is simple and works. Just don't TX with the main radio
if the antenna is not connected of course.
Bottom line you want the whip part of the antenna to
bend or brake before wrinkling the skin.
Cheers George M, RV-4, RV-7
>From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
>I'm mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an
>RV-7. Where can I find information pertaining to doubler
>requirement? Also, a cork gasket/seal is installed between the
>Comant antenna base and the fuselage skin - is the antenna
>base grounded to the fuselage via themounting screws since
>the cork seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks.
---------------------------------
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Pitot heat suggestions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:49 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 7/25/06 7:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>will@willcrook.com writes:
>
> > Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder?
> >
> > As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage
>to
> > a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that
>fold)
> > comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage
>seems
> > to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together.
> >
> > Will Crook
> > Waynesville, NC
>=================================
>Will:
>
>Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6%
>Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round
>crimp
>terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember,
>maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder.
How so? The pitot tube is supplied with pins that mate
with an expensive, hard to find connector. The suggested
modification allows use of inexpensive connector technology
located remotely from the hostile environment located at
the base of the pitot tube.
I don't see that future maintenance is affected in any
adverse way.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Pitot heat suggestions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:30 AM 7/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>Bob & Barry,
>
>Thanks for your suggestions. I'm at the very beginning of the wiring
>phase, so the savings of Bob's suggestion covers the cost of a decent
>solder gun. Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder?
You're looking for "hard" silver solder. Electronic tin/lead
solder that bears some silver (2 - 4%) is not suitable Further, the
suggested solder melts at orange temperatures. Conventional
electronic soldering tools will not produce the necessary heat.
My favorite shop tool for applying the necessary heat is
a $10 torch from Bernzomatic. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Soldering/ST100T_Microtorch_small.jpg
You get these at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc.
You can get a kit of solder and flux off ebay
at item 250006585548 or item 4463571008
Practice with the tools and materials on sticking
things together. Use some coat-hangar wire to emulate
your pitot tube pin. Attach some pieces of Teflon
14AWG to hangar wire until you're familar with the
techniques.
>
>As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage
>to a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that
>fold) comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite
>fuselage seems to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together.
You got it. Local grounding is useful ONLY in metal
airplanes assembled with lots of rivets. One you
ad joints (moving or adhesive), all electrical bets
are off.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:14 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 7/24/06 10:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>fvalarm@rapidnet.net writes:
>
> > What about soldering wire female leads to the terminals.
> >
> > Bevan
> > RV7A finish kit
>=====================
>Brevan:
>
>Soldering in 99% of the cases is a NO-NO. Even though we are experimental we
>still have to follow good building procedures and AC 43-13 A&B. Soldering
>creates HARD POINTS that are subject to vibration failure. Do I solder? In
>some cases YES ;-) But not in this case. Use crimp-ons.
No so. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html
Solder and crimp are of equal reliability and, for the
most part, interchangeable wire joining technologies.
Obviously they require different tools and skills but
aside from matters of convenience or personal preference,
there is no reason to pick one technology over the other.
The prejudices against solder are largely fabricated of
misunderstanding of the science and techniques.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Pitot heat suggestions |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>Will:
>
>Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6%
>Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round
>crimp terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember,
>maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder.
How so? The pitot tube is supplied with pins that mate
with an expensive, hard to find connector. The suggested
modification allows use of inexpensive connector technology
located remotely from the hostile environment located at
the base of the pitot tube.
I don't see that future maintenance is affected in any
adverse way.
Bob . . .
====================================
Bob:
It is not a big deal if the connections are soldered in addition to push on
connections. But, think of it this way; which would be easier for you to do
inspect and do maintenance on ... A circuit board or component or wires that
MUST be unsoldered from a circuit board to work on, or an entire circuit board
or
component or wires that can be moved to the workbench to be worked on, or in
this case moved out of the way?
It is purely one's preference, the plane will not fall out of the sky.
I did say a "bit more difficult", not impossible. Been there, done that,
doing it now.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
Thanks Bill
On Jul 24, 2006, at 11:11 PM, William Gill wrote:
> Hello Jeff,
>
>
> I=92m mounting them side by side=85they are about 32=94 apart.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Moreau
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:56 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna mounting
>
>
> What position are you mounting them in. I am getting ready for
> bent whips on the belly of my RV8A. I was wondering how close
> together you are mounting them.
>
> Are they side=by side, or in line with the centerline of the
> fuselage. Any info would be appreciated.
>
> Jeff Moreau
>
> Virginia Beach, VA
>
> On Jul 24, 2006, at 10:15 PM, William Gill wrote:
>
>
> Hello All,
>
>
> I=92m mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7.
> Where can I find information pertaining to doubler requirement?
> Also, a cork gasket/seal is installed between the Comant antenna
> base and the fuselage skin ' is the antenna base grounded to the
> fuselage via the mounting screws since the cork seal insulates the
> antenna base? Thanks.
>
>
> Bill Gill
>
> RV-7 wiring
>
> Lee=92s Summit, MO
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" <pw@weismannassociates.com>
Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building an electronics
workbench?
I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have outlets obviously,
parts bins etc.
Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts?
look forward to seeing what people are using to work on.
PW
--------
Rotorway JetExec
Baron B58
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49796#49796
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the
> fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up
> through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with
> very little weight gain.
Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught
how to install antennas. The long and short of it was:
1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if
possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc
chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't
using two-part epoxy primers then.)
2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never
really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in
once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant
instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a
significant gap use an aluminum spacer.
3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin,
make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann"
> <pw@weismannassociates.com>
>
> Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building
> an electronics workbench?
>
> I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have
> outlets obviously, parts bins etc.
>
> Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts?
It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many
of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep
shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part
nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge
to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is
where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work
space and is at eye level.
One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use
comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair.
It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing.
A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is
then easy to reach the plugs.
I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is
probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is
already taken.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/25/06 4:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pw@weismannassociates.com writes:
> <pw@weismannassociates.com>
>
> Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building an
> electronics workbench?
>
> I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have outlets
> obviously, parts bins etc.
>
> Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts?
>
> look forward to seeing what people are using to work on.
>
> PW
===========================================
Paul:
There are a couple of ideas for you:
1 - I prefer a smooth hard top as apposed to a carpet.
2 - I like the top white in color - Makes things easier to find.
3 - Making things easier to find is also why I do not like the carpet. On a
hard top you can hear things that drop.
4 - Electrical outlets are a must and they should be UNDER the table and set
back about 6". Why? So the power cords are out of the way. Away from the
knees and so you do go dragging them across the top.
5 - You will also need a good Filtered, Stable Power Supply, at least 15 to
50 Amps in this case MORE is better. Add up all the current draws from all
your avionics and use that as a reference. Note: If you have two Coms and each
draws 10 amps Max ... Remember you will only be transmitting on ONE Com at a
time. So use the Receive amperage of the higher of the two units when adding up
all the items.
6 - Table Top Edging - Around the edge of the workbench install a RAISED -
ROUND molding, it is known as 3/4 Round. This will make keeping parts on the
table easier and the power cords slide easier.
7 - A shelf the full length of the workbench. This is where you secure the
solder station UP and Away from fingers. Also a good place for other meters
and lights
8 - Lights - Overhead lighting is a must. As well as a GOOSE NECK / BOOM
light. And if you want to go fancy a florescent Ring Light with a Magnifying
lens in the center ... Got BUCK$ ?
9 - Since you are building an electronic workbench I assume you will be doing
some soldering. Get a REAL GOOD solder station. One that has a linear heat
control.
The solder station should have a few requirements:
a> Silicon - Heat resistant cords, both for the power and the pencil. So you
don't burn them.
b> Long Cords - Long enough cords so you can reach either end of the
workbench OR means to move the station from one end to the other.
c> Means of SECURING the solder station so if you pull on the cord the
station does NOT fall on the bench (avionics).
d> A WET sponge - This is a cellulose sponge that is particular to a good
solder station.
e> SILVER PLATED small chisel solder tip. MUST BE PLATED! It will last
forever.
f> Solder 63/37 Eutectic size: 0.063" Get a Pound, it also will last forever.
10 - VICES - Yes, I have a few, but you might want one or two. The vices are
mounted at the ends of the bench so you can hole two connectors and solder
Plug A Pin 1 to Plug B Pin 1 makes it easier in keeping connectors straight
11 - There are also a few tricks using a dowel (COMB BOARD) board to keep
wires straight.
OK, enough, now I'm getting into techniques and all you asked was about a
workbench.
Best of luck,
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Workbench layout for |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:15 PM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
>On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann"
>><pw@weismannassociates.com>
>>
>>Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building
>>an electronics workbench?
>>
>>I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have
>>outlets obviously, parts bins etc.
>>
>>Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts?
>
>It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many
>of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep
>shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part
>nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge
>to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is
>where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work
>space and is at eye level.
>
>One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use
>comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair.
>It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing.
>
>A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is
>then easy to reach the plugs.
>
>I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is
>probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is
>already taken.
Only thing I would add is that I like to cover the upper
surface of the bench with tempered Masonite. It gets
beat up after a few years but is easy and cheap to
replace. Here's one of my benches only a month after
the last clean off!
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg
Lights under shelf help at the bench level. Plug
strips under shelf supply stuff on the bench and
the occasional 2" hole in shelf brings equipment
cords down through to the plug strip underneath.
Tool outlets are seen under the surface lip. Oh
yeah, the surface lip overhangs the structure about
6". This keeps tool cords out of the way and gives
you a place to clamp various vices, magnifying
lamp, etc.
Bob . . .
Bob . . .
Message 19
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Subject: | VHF antenna mounting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
Thank you ALL for the great info. Maybe I'll have a com radio going by
this weekend.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Lloyd
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:18 PM
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
<brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the
> fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up
> through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with
> very little weight gain.
Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught
how to install antennas. The long and short of it was:
1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if
possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc
chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't
using two-part epoxy primers then.)
2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never
really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in
once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant
instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a
significant gap use an aluminum spacer.
3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin,
make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Brian Lloyd wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
> <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>
> On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann"
>> <pw@weismannassociates.com>
>>
>> Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building
>> an electronics workbench?
>>
>> I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have
>> outlets obviously, parts bins etc.
>>
>> Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts?
>
>
> It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many
> of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep
> shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part
> nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge
> to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is
> where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work
> space and is at eye level.
>
> One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use
> comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair.
> It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing.
>
> A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is
> then easy to reach the plugs.
>
> I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is
> probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is
> already taken.
>
> Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
> brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
> +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
When I did consumer electronics repair in another life, I found that a
smooth surface (tempered masonite, formica, etc) & a rectangular carpet
sample worked well. I was working on items that weighed between 5 & 100
lbs, & the loose carpet sample made moving the 'patient' around easy
while protecting it from scratches & dents when I needed to roll it over
or stand it on its side. I agree with Brian about test gear location.
Remote parts location minimizes the number of parts you knock off the
bench & lose.
All the above might not be an issue if you're just fabricating small
items, but the slick bench top & loose carpet are a lot easier to clean
than fixed carpet.
Bench height is very much personal preference. My business partner
always worked standing or on a high stool; my brain stops functioning if
I stand in one place for more than 30 seconds.
Oh yeah, a work bench is like the deck behind your house: you always
wish you had built it just a little bigger......
Charlie
Message 21
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Subject: | VHF antenna mounting |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:52 PM 7/25/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
>
>Thank you ALL for the great info. Maybe I'll have a com radio going by
>this weekend.
>
>Bill
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
>Lloyd
>Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:18 PM
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd
><brian-yak@lloyd.com>
>
>On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the
> > fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up
> > through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with
> > very little weight gain.
>
>Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught
>how to install antennas. The long and short of it was:
>
>1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if
>possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc
>chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't
>using two-part epoxy primers then.)
>
>2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never
>really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in
>once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant
>instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a
>significant gap use an aluminum spacer.
>
>3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin,
>make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact.
I published a mate-up sketch to the website a few months ago:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
The emphasis for "grounding" the base of the antenna to structure
needs to concentrate on the areas around fasteners where mate-up
pressures assure the "gas tight" condition. Removal of paint or
material surface protection any place else is a waste of time and
only exposes those surfaces to the ravages of atmosphere. All the
magic happens right around the screws and no place else.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Heated pitot tube connections |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:29 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 7/25/06 12:03:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>dsvs@comcast.net writes:
>
> > Bob,
> > Is the silver solder just for heat resistance? If I am not mistaken
> silver
> > solder is not as good a conductor as tin/lead, or is that an old wives
>tale?
> > Don
> >
>====================
>Don:
>
>There are many Old Wife's Tails out there and the Internet does a tremendous
>job at propagating them and producing even more. But, SILVER is a Much, Much
>better conductor than tin or lead. Just look at the Periodic Table of
>Elements. Silver has more free electrons than the other two. Or just look
>up the
>conductivity of silver. While you are at it check out GOLD, PLATINUM,
>COPPER and
>especially ALUMINUM.
>And then consider how good your electrical system is.
Let's consider simple ideas that do not ride on anyone's tales . . .
The amount of solder in series with the electron flow through
any joint is small compared to the total circuit resistance. Yes,
lead has 13x the resistance of copper but consider that when you
twist two wires together, the joint is as good as it will ever get
right at that moment. Adding solder serves to immobilize and encapsulate
the joint to prevent future degradation due to corrosion and loss of
pressure.
In low current, hi impedance circuits (like surface mounted integrated
circuits) the higher resistance of solder compared to the conductors
being joined does not add significant resistance to the system.
>Silver solder is around for other reasons other than conductivity. STRENGTH
>is its major consideration. It is quite a bit stronger than electrical
>solder. Silver solder is broken down into two classifications:
>Silver bearing (NO! Not like ball bearings) and Percentage Silver. Unless
>you request a particular percentage you will get silver bearing and that
>is only
>3% Silver MAX.
> BTW ... If you have purchased solder in the past few years, especially if
>you purchased it through Radio Shack you did NOT get Tin/Lead solder ... The
>LEAD has been removed. Too many environmentalist chewing on circuit boards.
To amplify on this, "silver solder" is a term that can apply to
MANY alloys for different purposes. Silver bearing solder is low
temp stuff used in specialized electronics where silver plated
parts are being assembled and you don't want the solder to dissolve
silver from the base metal. An example is seen here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber3-584
Note the very low melting point of this material. Ordinary soldering
irons do fine.
Hard solders melt at much higher temperatures. Here's an example:
http://www.jewelrysupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_25_260&products_id=8243
This pretty cool product combines the flux and powdered silver solder
in a dispensing syringe. Ideal for making the pitot tube pin-to-wire
joints being considered in this thread. Note the higher melting point.
This takes a gas flame.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: SD-8 ALTERNATOR MOD FOR SELF EXCITATION |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>Is it possible that B&C would be interested and better equipped to verify
>the optimum component values and physical layout via motorized bench
>testing wherein the conditions can be better stabilized and controlled
>than is the case during either engine ground runs or in-flight testing as
>I did? For instance, I noted an apparent variable in results that I
>suspect was related to changing component temperatures over time. This may
>not be a significant variable but did make repeatability of data somewhat
>less than ideal.
Absolutely! That's why I've forwarded the data to Tim at B&C.
I presently have no working relationship with B&C so this
activity is being offered to them as advisory data as opposed
to a directed development effort.
Bob . . .
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