AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 07/25/06


Total Messages Posted: 23



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:21 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     2. 02:21 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     3. 02:34 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     4. 03:52 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     5. 04:38 AM - Pitot heat suggestions (William Crook)
     6. 06:22 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
     7. 06:56 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     8. 07:22 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting ()
     9. 07:42 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    10. 08:25 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 08:31 AM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    12. 08:34 AM - Re: Pitot heat suggestions (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
    13. 09:21 AM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Jeff Moreau)
    14. 01:25 PM - Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Paul Weismann)
    15. 03:24 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Brian Lloyd)
    16. 03:24 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Brian Lloyd)
    17. 05:28 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
    18. 06:40 PM - Re: Workbench layout for (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    19. 06:55 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (William Gill)
    20. 06:55 PM - Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics? (Charlie England)
    21. 08:44 PM - Re: VHF antenna mounting (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 09:02 PM - Re: Heated pitot tube connections (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    23. 09:05 PM - Re: SD-8 ALTERNATOR MOD FOR SELF EXCITATION (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:21:24 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/24/06 10:23:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wgill10@comcast.net writes: > Hello All, > > I'm mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7. Where > can I find information pertaining to doubler requirement? Also, a cork > gasket/seal is installed between the Comant antenna base and the > fuselage skin - is the antenna base grounded to the fuselage via the > mounting screws since the cork seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks. > > Bill Gill > RV-7 wiring > Lee's Summit, MO ================================= Bill: It is just good practice to reinforce an antenna mounting with a doubler. In most if not all antenna packages a doubler is supplied. Considering the design of an antenna you have a lot of unsupported material just dangling out in the breeze, better to support it than to take the chance of metal fatigue due to concentrated vibration points. As for the electrical grounding ... YES ... You are correct, the grounding is accomplished through the screws. So you can imagine that a doubler installed against the unpainted aluminum, followed up with good screws and lock washers will do much to improve everything associated with the ground and function of the antenna. One small trick with the cork seal, put a light smear of RTV on both sides of the cork. This is not a major trick but it will keep out moisture and improve the seal. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:21:24 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Heated pitot tube connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/24/06 10:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fvalarm@rapidnet.net writes: > What about soldering wire female leads to the terminals. > > Bevan > RV7A finish kit ===================== Brevan: Soldering in 99% of the cases is a NO-NO. Even though we are experimental we still have to follow good building procedures and AC 43-13 A&B. Soldering creates HARD POINTS that are subject to vibration failure. Do I solder? In some cases YES ;-) But not in this case. Use crimp-ons. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:34:03 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Heated pitot tube connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/25/06 12:03:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, dsvs@comcast.net writes: > Bob, > Is the silver solder just for heat resistance? If I am not mistaken silver > solder is not as good a conductor as tin/lead, or is that an old wives tale? > Don > ==================== Don: There are many Old Wife's Tails out there and the Internet does a tremendous job at propagating them and producing even more. But, SILVER is a Much, Much better conductor than tin or lead. Just look at the Periodic Table of Elements. Silver has more free electrons than the other two. Or just look up the conductivity of silver. While you are at it check out GOLD, PLATINUM, COPPER and especially ALUMINUM. And then consider how good your electrical system is. Silver solder is around for other reasons other than conductivity. STRENGTH is its major consideration. It is quite a bit stronger than electrical solder. Silver solder is broken down into two classifications: Silver bearing (NO! Not like ball bearings) and Percentage Silver. Unless you request a particular percentage you will get silver bearing and that is only 3% Silver MAX. BTW ... If you have purchased solder in the past few years, especially if you purchased it through Radio Shack you did NOT get Tin/Lead solder ... The LEAD has been removed. Too many environmentalist chewing on circuit boards. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:52:09 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/24/06 11:01:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmoreau2@cox.net writes: > What position are you mounting them in. I am getting ready for bent > whips on the belly of my RV8A. I was wondering how close together > you are mounting them. > Are they side=by side, or in line with the centerline of the > fuselage. Any info would be appreciated. > Jeff Moreau > Virginia Beach, VA ============================ Jeff: By definition bent whips are belly mounted. Keeping antennas as far apart as possible is always a good thing. If I recall the minimum distance recommended is 36" . Yet that is very hard to maintain. I have two mounted on the belly under the leg area of an RV-6 only about 20" apart. I do not have any front end overload or directivity to the pattern. If I was building the plane and had access to the tail easier I would install them in line on the center line (rivets permitting) and the recommended 36+" apart. You might also want to take note that COM #2 is usually mounted on top of the plane. This is to aid in better ground communication while on the ground. While Com #1 is used in the air. Once airborne Com 1 & 2 do work very well in the air. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:38:00 AM PST US
    From: William Crook <will@willcrook.com>
    Subject: Pitot heat suggestions
    Bob & Barry, Thanks for your suggestions. I'm at the very beginning of the wiring phase, so the savings of Bob's suggestion covers the cost of a decent solder gun. Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder? As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage to a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that fold) comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage seems to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together. Will Crook Waynesville, NC


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:22:05 AM PST US
    From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    Bill, I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with very little weight gain. Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 7/24/2006 10:23:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wgill10@comcast.net writes: Hello All, I=99m mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7. Wh ere can I find information pertaining to doubler requirement? Also, a cork gasket/sea l is installed between the Comant antenna base and the fuselage skin =93 is the antenna base grounded to the fuselage via the mounting screws since the cor k seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks. Bill Gill RV-7 wiring Lee=99s Summit, MO


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:56:36 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pitot heat suggestions
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/25/06 7:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, will@willcrook.com writes: > Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder? > > As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage to > a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that fold) > comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage seems > to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together. > > Will Crook > Waynesville, NC ================================= Will: Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6% Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round crimp terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember, maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:22:24 AM PST US
    From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    Bill: Yes the ground is thru the screws so make sure there is no primer and the nut plates are grounded to the airframe, assuming you will use nut plates which is highly recommend. The primary load is air drag load, which is very small. You can go crazy and make very large structural doubler's. Back in the old days with huge ADF and VOR flying wing antenna's structural doubler's where important. Your light weight bent com antenna is tiny compared to those lead sails. The belly on the RV is very thick. If you are in the area fwd of the main spar, not much doubling is needed. You do want local stability to keep it from flexing. Old FAA best practices AC 43 12-2A (chap 1) structures, shows antenna doubler's. Here are some ideas from the FAA AC source: If you place the antenna near a stiffener or rib, a good idea, you can bend an angle into the doubler to joggle or butt against the rib or angle and rivet to that. It's standard. to fill the whole BAY from stiffener to stiffener laterally wide. Your doubler will be square/rectangle from stiffener to stiffener and the width, fwd/aft, will be long enough to extend past the antenna foot print by 1.5" min on each end or to a frame. The above is ideal an very strong but not needed for a small COM antenna on a thick skin belly. If you put the antenna near a stiffiner the doubler may not be needed, at least on the RV forward belly. A traditional doubler, lets say just plop it right in the middle of a skin bay, has the same foot print but twice as large and one gage up from the basic material. So with a COM antenna you would have a tear drop airfoil shape about 8.5" long x 5.25 wide (approx give or take). Min edge width or edge margin should be 1.5" from edge of antenna foot print. You don't necessarily need to attach to a nearby stiffener or frame but depends on the skin thickness and size of antenna. What some do is make a local doubler with the nut plates and than attach the doubler to the skin with just a few rivets. That way you are not putting a bunch of small 3/32 rivets for the nut plates into the structural skin. Just make sure the screws have a ground path to the airframe with bare metal or ground straps. I suggest you put the COM antenna on the pilot side, just forward of the spar. You can make access to the coax while fairly well protected and out of the way. If you ever want to attach a portable radio to it you just reach down and remove the coax and attach a coax jumper from the antenna to the handheld radio (emergency only). Just a suggestion or idea. You can get fancy with panel splitters and so on but this is simple and works. Just don't TX with the main radio if the antenna is not connected of course. Bottom line you want the whip part of the antenna to bend or brake before wrinkling the skin. Cheers George M, RV-4, RV-7 >From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> >I'm mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an >RV-7. Where can I find information pertaining to doubler >requirement? Also, a cork gasket/seal is installed between the >Comant antenna base and the fuselage skin - is the antenna >base grounded to the fuselage via themounting screws since >the cork seal insulates the antenna base? Thanks. ---------------------------------


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:42:00 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Pitot heat suggestions
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 09:49 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > >In a message dated 7/25/06 7:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >will@willcrook.com writes: > > > Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder? > > > > As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage >to > > a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that >fold) > > comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite fuselage >seems > > to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together. > > > > Will Crook > > Waynesville, NC >================================= >Will: > >Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6% >Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round >crimp >terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember, >maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder. How so? The pitot tube is supplied with pins that mate with an expensive, hard to find connector. The suggested modification allows use of inexpensive connector technology located remotely from the hostile environment located at the base of the pitot tube. I don't see that future maintenance is affected in any adverse way. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:25:50 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Pitot heat suggestions
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 04:30 AM 7/25/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Bob & Barry, > >Thanks for your suggestions. I'm at the very beginning of the wiring >phase, so the savings of Bob's suggestion covers the cost of a decent >solder gun. Will Radio Shack sell the silver solder? You're looking for "hard" silver solder. Electronic tin/lead solder that bears some silver (2 - 4%) is not suitable Further, the suggested solder melts at orange temperatures. Conventional electronic soldering tools will not produce the necessary heat. My favorite shop tool for applying the necessary heat is a $10 torch from Bernzomatic. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Soldering/ST100T_Microtorch_small.jpg You get these at Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. You can get a kit of solder and flux off ebay at item 250006585548 or item 4463571008 Practice with the tools and materials on sticking things together. Use some coat-hangar wire to emulate your pitot tube pin. Attach some pieces of Teflon 14AWG to hangar wire until you're familar with the techniques. > >As to the ground, I plan on running all my grounds back into the fuselage >to a common ground. The Glastar is a neat bird, but the metal wings (that >fold) comming back to a powder coated steel tube cage and composite >fuselage seems to me to be a good case for keeping all the grounds together. You got it. Local grounding is useful ONLY in metal airplanes assembled with lots of rivets. One you ad joints (moving or adhesive), all electrical bets are off. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:31:40 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Heated pitot tube connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 05:14 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > >In a message dated 7/24/06 10:55:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >fvalarm@rapidnet.net writes: > > > What about soldering wire female leads to the terminals. > > > > Bevan > > RV7A finish kit >===================== >Brevan: > >Soldering in 99% of the cases is a NO-NO. Even though we are experimental we >still have to follow good building procedures and AC 43-13 A&B. Soldering >creates HARD POINTS that are subject to vibration failure. Do I solder? In >some cases YES ;-) But not in this case. Use crimp-ons. No so. See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Solder_Lap_Splicing/Solder_Lap_Splices.html Solder and crimp are of equal reliability and, for the most part, interchangeable wire joining technologies. Obviously they require different tools and skills but aside from matters of convenience or personal preference, there is no reason to pick one technology over the other. The prejudices against solder are largely fabricated of misunderstanding of the science and techniques. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:34:26 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pitot heat suggestions
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com >Will: > >Call a couple of Air Conditioning Supply Shops (HVAC), see if they have 6% >Silver Solder or better. I would not use just the soldering, a good round >crimp terminal followed by silver solder should do the job. BUT! Remember, >maintenance down the road will be a bit more difficult if you solder. How so? The pitot tube is supplied with pins that mate with an expensive, hard to find connector. The suggested modification allows use of inexpensive connector technology located remotely from the hostile environment located at the base of the pitot tube. I don't see that future maintenance is affected in any adverse way. Bob . . . ==================================== Bob: It is not a big deal if the connections are soldered in addition to push on connections. But, think of it this way; which would be easier for you to do inspect and do maintenance on ... A circuit board or component or wires that MUST be unsoldered from a circuit board to work on, or an entire circuit board or component or wires that can be moved to the workbench to be worked on, or in this case moved out of the way? It is purely one's preference, the plane will not fall out of the sky. I did say a "bit more difficult", not impossible. Been there, done that, doing it now. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:21:37 AM PST US
    From: Jeff Moreau <jmoreau2@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    Thanks Bill On Jul 24, 2006, at 11:11 PM, William Gill wrote: > Hello Jeff, > > > I=92m mounting them side by side=85they are about 32=94 apart. > > > Bill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Moreau > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:56 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: VHF antenna mounting > > > What position are you mounting them in. I am getting ready for > bent whips on the belly of my RV8A. I was wondering how close > together you are mounting them. > > Are they side=by side, or in line with the centerline of the > fuselage. Any info would be appreciated. > > Jeff Moreau > > Virginia Beach, VA > > On Jul 24, 2006, at 10:15 PM, William Gill wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > I=92m mounting two VHF bent whip antennas on the belly of an RV-7. > Where can I find information pertaining to doubler requirement? > Also, a cork gasket/seal is installed between the Comant antenna > base and the fuselage skin ' is the antenna base grounded to the > fuselage via the mounting screws since the cork seal insulates the > antenna base? Thanks. > > > Bill Gill > > RV-7 wiring > > Lee=92s Summit, MO > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 01:25:19 PM PST US
    From: "Paul Weismann" <pw@weismannassociates.com>
    Subject: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" <pw@weismannassociates.com> Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building an electronics workbench? I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have outlets obviously, parts bins etc. Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts? look forward to seeing what people are using to work on. PW -------- Rotorway JetExec Baron B58 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=49796#49796


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:24:14 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: VHF antenna mounting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > > Bill, > > I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the > fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up > through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with > very little weight gain. Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught how to install antennas. The long and short of it was: 1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't using two-part epoxy primers then.) 2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a significant gap use an aluminum spacer. 3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin, make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:24:14 PM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" > <pw@weismannassociates.com> > > Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building > an electronics workbench? > > I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have > outlets obviously, parts bins etc. > > Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts? It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work space and is at eye level. One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair. It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing. A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is then easy to reach the plugs. I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is already taken. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 17


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    Time: 05:28:26 PM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 7/25/06 4:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, pw@weismannassociates.com writes: > <pw@weismannassociates.com> > > Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building an > electronics workbench? > > I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have outlets > obviously, parts bins etc. > > Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts? > > look forward to seeing what people are using to work on. > > PW =========================================== Paul: There are a couple of ideas for you: 1 - I prefer a smooth hard top as apposed to a carpet. 2 - I like the top white in color - Makes things easier to find. 3 - Making things easier to find is also why I do not like the carpet. On a hard top you can hear things that drop. 4 - Electrical outlets are a must and they should be UNDER the table and set back about 6". Why? So the power cords are out of the way. Away from the knees and so you do go dragging them across the top. 5 - You will also need a good Filtered, Stable Power Supply, at least 15 to 50 Amps in this case MORE is better. Add up all the current draws from all your avionics and use that as a reference. Note: If you have two Coms and each draws 10 amps Max ... Remember you will only be transmitting on ONE Com at a time. So use the Receive amperage of the higher of the two units when adding up all the items. 6 - Table Top Edging - Around the edge of the workbench install a RAISED - ROUND molding, it is known as 3/4 Round. This will make keeping parts on the table easier and the power cords slide easier. 7 - A shelf the full length of the workbench. This is where you secure the solder station UP and Away from fingers. Also a good place for other meters and lights 8 - Lights - Overhead lighting is a must. As well as a GOOSE NECK / BOOM light. And if you want to go fancy a florescent Ring Light with a Magnifying lens in the center ... Got BUCK$ ? 9 - Since you are building an electronic workbench I assume you will be doing some soldering. Get a REAL GOOD solder station. One that has a linear heat control. The solder station should have a few requirements: a> Silicon - Heat resistant cords, both for the power and the pencil. So you don't burn them. b> Long Cords - Long enough cords so you can reach either end of the workbench OR means to move the station from one end to the other. c> Means of SECURING the solder station so if you pull on the cord the station does NOT fall on the bench (avionics). d> A WET sponge - This is a cellulose sponge that is particular to a good solder station. e> SILVER PLATED small chisel solder tip. MUST BE PLATED! It will last forever. f> Solder 63/37 Eutectic size: 0.063" Get a Pound, it also will last forever. 10 - VICES - Yes, I have a few, but you might want one or two. The vices are mounted at the ends of the bench so you can hole two connectors and solder Plug A Pin 1 to Plug B Pin 1 makes it easier in keeping connectors straight 11 - There are also a few tricks using a dowel (COMB BOARD) board to keep wires straight. OK, enough, now I'm getting into techniques and all you asked was about a workbench. Best of luck, Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:40:30 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Workbench layout for
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 06:15 PM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> > > >On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" >><pw@weismannassociates.com> >> >>Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building >>an electronics workbench? >> >>I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have >>outlets obviously, parts bins etc. >> >>Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts? > >It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many >of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep >shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part >nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge >to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is >where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work >space and is at eye level. > >One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use >comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair. >It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing. > >A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is >then easy to reach the plugs. > >I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is >probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is >already taken. Only thing I would add is that I like to cover the upper surface of the bench with tempered Masonite. It gets beat up after a few years but is easy and cheap to replace. Here's one of my benches only a month after the last clean off! http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg Lights under shelf help at the bench level. Plug strips under shelf supply stuff on the bench and the occasional 2" hole in shelf brings equipment cords down through to the plug strip underneath. Tool outlets are seen under the surface lip. Oh yeah, the surface lip overhangs the structure about 6". This keeps tool cords out of the way and gives you a place to clamp various vices, magnifying lamp, etc. Bob . . . Bob . . .


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:55:47 PM PST US
    From: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net>
    Subject: VHF antenna mounting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> Thank you ALL for the great info. Maybe I'll have a com radio going by this weekend. Bill -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:18 PM --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com> On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > > Bill, > > I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the > fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up > through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with > very little weight gain. Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught how to install antennas. The long and short of it was: 1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't using two-part epoxy primers then.) 2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a significant gap use an aluminum spacer. 3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin, make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 20


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    Time: 06:55:49 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Workbench layout for avionics/electronics?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> Brian Lloyd wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > <brian-yak@lloyd.com> > > > On Jul 25, 2006, at 4:17 PM, Paul Weismann wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul Weismann" >> <pw@weismannassociates.com> >> >> Does anyone have good ideas or fundamental principles for building >> an electronics workbench? >> >> I have heard use carpet on the worksurface, make sure to have >> outlets obviously, parts bins etc. >> >> Anyone have pics of their favorite layouts? > > > It all depends on what you are doing. One thing I have done in many > of my benches in the past and still like to do is to put a 1' deep > shelf about 18" above the bench. It should slope forward (part > nearest you lower than the back) but have a cleat on the leading edge > to keep stuff from sliding off the shelf onto your work area. This is > where you put your test gear so it doesn't steal any of your work > space and is at eye level. > > One other thing I prefer is a workbench that is high enough to use > comfortably when standing. If I want to sit I use a high stool/chair. > It is amazing how much work you will want to do when standing. > > A plug strip along the leading edge of your shelf works well as it is > then easy to reach the plugs. > > I tend to keep my parts bins away from the bench itself but that is > probably because my shelf space over the bench (within easy reach) is > already taken. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way > brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) When I did consumer electronics repair in another life, I found that a smooth surface (tempered masonite, formica, etc) & a rectangular carpet sample worked well. I was working on items that weighed between 5 & 100 lbs, & the loose carpet sample made moving the 'patient' around easy while protecting it from scratches & dents when I needed to roll it over or stand it on its side. I agree with Brian about test gear location. Remote parts location minimizes the number of parts you knock off the bench & lose. All the above might not be an issue if you're just fabricating small items, but the slick bench top & loose carpet are a lot easier to clean than fixed carpet. Bench height is very much personal preference. My business partner always worked standing or on a high stool; my brain stops functioning if I stand in one place for more than 30 seconds. Oh yeah, a work bench is like the deck behind your house: you always wish you had built it just a little bigger...... Charlie


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:44:10 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: VHF antenna mounting
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:52 PM 7/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Gill" <wgill10@comcast.net> > >Thank you ALL for the great info. Maybe I'll have a com radio going by >this weekend. > >Bill > > >-----Original Message----- >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian >Lloyd >Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 5:18 PM > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd ><brian-yak@lloyd.com> > >On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > > > > > Bill, > > > > I riveted 2 short pieces of leftover stiffener material from the > > fuselage across between the seat ribs that the antenna screws go up > > through (for one antenna). The antenna feels pretty solid with > > very little weight gain. > >Good. When I worked at a radio shop many, many years ago I was taught >how to install antennas. The long and short of it was: > >1. Always put in a doubler. Make it at least 4" (10cm) square if >possible but bigger is better. Rivet it in and liberally use zinc >chromate. (Remember, this was back in the early 1970's and we weren't >using two-part epoxy primers then.) > >2. Don't use the cork gasket that comes with the antenna. They never >really seal well but they do a good job of keeping the moisture in >once it gets in and this tends to corrode things. Use a good sealant >instead. If the bushings are long enough that it creates a >significant gap use an aluminum spacer. > >3. Where the antenna's mounting bushings contact the aircraft skin, >make sure the paint is removed to ensure a good electrical contact. I published a mate-up sketch to the website a few months ago: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif The emphasis for "grounding" the base of the antenna to structure needs to concentrate on the areas around fasteners where mate-up pressures assure the "gas tight" condition. Removal of paint or material surface protection any place else is a waste of time and only exposes those surfaces to the ravages of atmosphere. All the magic happens right around the screws and no place else. Bob . . .


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:02:42 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Heated pitot tube connections
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 05:29 AM 7/25/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > >In a message dated 7/25/06 12:03:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >dsvs@comcast.net writes: > > > Bob, > > Is the silver solder just for heat resistance? If I am not mistaken > silver > > solder is not as good a conductor as tin/lead, or is that an old wives >tale? > > Don > > >==================== >Don: > >There are many Old Wife's Tails out there and the Internet does a tremendous >job at propagating them and producing even more. But, SILVER is a Much, Much >better conductor than tin or lead. Just look at the Periodic Table of >Elements. Silver has more free electrons than the other two. Or just look >up the >conductivity of silver. While you are at it check out GOLD, PLATINUM, >COPPER and >especially ALUMINUM. >And then consider how good your electrical system is. Let's consider simple ideas that do not ride on anyone's tales . . . The amount of solder in series with the electron flow through any joint is small compared to the total circuit resistance. Yes, lead has 13x the resistance of copper but consider that when you twist two wires together, the joint is as good as it will ever get right at that moment. Adding solder serves to immobilize and encapsulate the joint to prevent future degradation due to corrosion and loss of pressure. In low current, hi impedance circuits (like surface mounted integrated circuits) the higher resistance of solder compared to the conductors being joined does not add significant resistance to the system. >Silver solder is around for other reasons other than conductivity. STRENGTH >is its major consideration. It is quite a bit stronger than electrical >solder. Silver solder is broken down into two classifications: >Silver bearing (NO! Not like ball bearings) and Percentage Silver. Unless >you request a particular percentage you will get silver bearing and that >is only >3% Silver MAX. > BTW ... If you have purchased solder in the past few years, especially if >you purchased it through Radio Shack you did NOT get Tin/Lead solder ... The >LEAD has been removed. Too many environmentalist chewing on circuit boards. To amplify on this, "silver solder" is a term that can apply to MANY alloys for different purposes. Silver bearing solder is low temp stuff used in specialized electronics where silver plated parts are being assembled and you don't want the solder to dissolve silver from the base metal. An example is seen here: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber3-584 Note the very low melting point of this material. Ordinary soldering irons do fine. Hard solders melt at much higher temperatures. Here's an example: http://www.jewelrysupply.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=16_25_260&products_id=8243 This pretty cool product combines the flux and powdered silver solder in a dispensing syringe. Ideal for making the pitot tube pin-to-wire joints being considered in this thread. Note the higher melting point. This takes a gas flame. Bob . . .


    Message 23


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    Time: 09:05:59 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: SD-8 ALTERNATOR MOD FOR SELF EXCITATION
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > >Is it possible that B&C would be interested and better equipped to verify >the optimum component values and physical layout via motorized bench >testing wherein the conditions can be better stabilized and controlled >than is the case during either engine ground runs or in-flight testing as >I did? For instance, I noted an apparent variable in results that I >suspect was related to changing component temperatures over time. This may >not be a significant variable but did make repeatability of data somewhat >less than ideal. Absolutely! That's why I've forwarded the data to Tim at B&C. I presently have no working relationship with B&C so this activity is being offered to them as advisory data as opposed to a directed development effort. Bob . . .




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