Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:32 AM - Re: Re: VHF antenna mounting (more hair splitting) (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
2. 06:00 AM - Re: Re: Antennas general (Brian Lloyd)
3. 06:05 AM - Re: Antenna Coax Routing (Brian Lloyd)
4. 06:29 AM - Re: grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:25 AM - Z-diagrams moved?? (sportav8r@aol.com)
6. 07:55 AM - Re: Re: grounds (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
7. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: grounds (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
8. 08:30 AM - Re: Z-diagrams moved?? (Matt Prather)
9. 10:27 AM - Re: Re: grounds (Bret Smith)
10. 12:08 PM - Re: Re: Antennas general (John D.Heath)
11. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: little symbols -- was Antennas general (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
12. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: little symbols -- was Antennas general (David Carter)
13. 07:34 PM - FW: Rosenfeld Diabetes Fund (Kenneth Melvin)
14. 07:44 PM - antennas (Fergus Kyle)
15. 08:30 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:ASCII CODES :-=DE? (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: VHF antenna mounting (more hair splitting) |
George and fellow listers,
Well said George. Stainless steel is extremely difficult to make electrical
contact to. Once I tried playing around on a curve tracer with a piece of
stainless. The oxide coating that grows on stainless (just like aluminum) to
protect itself is really hard and tough. I had to really scratch hard with a
piece of copper wire to see conduction on the curve tracer. By the way, a
curve tracer is an oscilloscope with a built in power supply to allow you to
see volts vs. amps on the screen. A short looks like a vertical line and an
open looks like a horizontal line. You can see visually whether you have
contact or not, and try it at different voltages. Higher voltages (like 100
volts or more!) punch through the oxide much better.
I have always been leery of the ground to the firewall on RVs. I think the
real ground is on the inside to the aluminum angle. For this reason I used a
cad plated washer and nut instead of the platenut there. I don't think that
an all metal locknut is necessary. The threads will contact to the metal
part of the nut just fine. I don't know of any problem of conduction through
the platenut. I just prefer the nut and washer. YMMV
do not archive -- not many will agree with this!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 7/27/2006 11:44:28 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com writes:
Another hair to split, not that anyone on the list would ever do
that, is not to use stainless steel screws? Why? The base of
the antenna is aluminum alloy. Aluminum and SS is far apart
on the galvanic corrosion chart. Boeing uses passivated/cadmium
plated fasteners not stainless steel. I think the engineers at
Boeing and Cessna might have a clue. Dang engineers what
do they know. :-) All those years in school wasted.
Cheers George M., MSME, ATP/CFII-MEI
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Antennas general |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Jul 27, 2006, at 9:28 AM, sportav8r@aol.com wrote:
> While we're discussing dB's, I note that the installation
> instructions for my Garmin GMA 340 audio panel mention several
> times a feature provinding "10 times gain (20 dB)" for the
> entertainment channel input. I have labored all my life under the
> impression that 10dB was 10x gain, and 20 dB was 100x gain. It
> seems unlikely that the people who design this stuff professionally
> know more about decibels and power gain than a radio hobbyist does,
> so it's safe to assume I'm the one who is missing something. What
> gives?
10dB is a ten-fold increase in *power*.
Since power is V^2/R if you increase voltage by a factor of 10 you
increase power by a factor of 100 (10x10). A 100-fold increase in
power is 20dB.
A gain of 10 (voltage increased ten times) results in a power gain of
20dB.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna Coax Routing |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-yak@lloyd.com>
On Jul 27, 2006, at 12:42 PM, Todd Richmond wrote:
> This might be a newbie question but Im giving it a shot none the
> less. I have an RV-7A (or part of one at this point) in which I am
> planning on mounting my VOR and marker beacon antennas in the
> wingtips (one in each tip).
If you plan to use the VOR antenna for general VOR navigation, it
might not work all that well as it is not going to receive well in
all directions. If you plan to use it for flying an ILS where the
transmitter is likely to be right in front of you, it will probably
work pretty well.
A blade type antenna on the VS is still the best way to go but a
catwhisker antenna on the top of the VS or bottom of the fuselage is
pretty good.
Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way
brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)
I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
Antoine de Saint-Exupry
Message 4
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>
>I have always been leery of the ground to the firewall on RVs. I think
>the real ground is on the inside to the aluminum angle. For this reason I
>used a cad plated washer and nut instead of the platenut there. I don't
>think that an all metal locknut is necessary.
???? Really. You don't buy into the concept of high,
sustained force in the fastener for the purposes of
maintaining pressure in the joint over the lifetime of
the airplane? If concerns for loosening of a nut
anywhere else in the airplane is worthy of anti-rotation
technology like lock-nuts, how is it that a firewall
ground fastener is relieved of such constraints? How
does a nutplate (generally an all-metal locking
technology) become inferior to a nut and cad-plated
washer to the achievement of permanent joining short
of welding or riveting?
> The threads will contact to the metal part of the nut just fine. I
> don't know of any problem of conduction through the platenut. I just
> prefer the nut and washer. YMMV
Threads of a fastener have almost nothing to do with
conductivity of the joint. 99% happens at the surface
of a terminal held in contact with the surface opposite
the nut. To attach a wire to a surface of the airplane,
you'd be just fine with CERAMIC fasteners as long as
the goal of bringing the two critical surfaces togehter
has been achieved.
For the most part, firewalls should not be depended upon
for anything but the most benign of grounds . . . like
perhaps the grounding of a starter contactor coil through
the base of the contactor . . . or grounding the (-) sense
of a "ford" regulator by virtue of it's bolting to the
sheet metal.
The whole intent and purpose of the single point ground
suggested in chapter 15 was to eliminate all uncertainties
both for initial and aged performance of this important
but poorly understood portion of the ship's electrical
system.
One may argue the virtues or evils of various materials
platings and assembly processes at length but in the
final analysis, sustained pressure (for gas tight) and
exclusion of antagonists (by means of platings, silicone
grease, paint, etc.) are the keys to longevity.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Z-diagrams moved?? |
Can't find 'em online anymore... link broken?
I'm trying to have a discussion about PM starter run-on with another fellow, and
it's hard if I can't cite my sources ;-)
Thanks for any pointers to the reference docs.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________
Message 6
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In a message dated 7/28/2006 9:31:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
> The threads will contact to the metal part of the nut just fine. I
> don't know of any problem of conduction through the platenut. I just
> prefer the nut and washer. YMMV
Threads of a fastener have almost nothing to do with
conductivity of the joint. 99% happens at the surface
of a terminal held in contact with the surface opposite
the nut. To attach a wire to a surface of the airplane,
you'd be just fine with CERAMIC fasteners as long as
the goal of bringing the two critical surfaces togehter
has been achieved.
Bob,
I see your point, but it would be pretty hard to prove where the electrons
actually go. Lets say that the relatively large surface area of the terminal
and the stainless firewall caused the pressure to be too small to punch
through the oxide coating of the stainless steel. Then the path would have to
be
from the terminal, through the bolt, to the threads, to the nut (self locking
by the way), to the washer and finally to the aluminum.
do not archive
Dan Hopper
Message 7
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Bob,
I should have mentioned that part of what I was trying to accomplish by not
installing the platenut behind where the battery ground cable attaches to the
firewall was to make a place in the cockpit area to pick up a good ground.
Your expertise in these matters far exceeds mine. So I shall go out and
rivet in a 1/4 inch platenut the way the plans show!
Hey, I thought you were supposed to be on vacation!
do not archive
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 7/28/2006 10:58:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 7/28/2006 9:31:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
> The threads will contact to the metal part of the nut just fine. I
> don't know of any problem of conduction through the platenut. I just
> prefer the nut and washer. YMMV
Threads of a fastener have almost nothing to do with
conductivity of the joint. 99% happens at the surface
of a terminal held in contact with the surface opposite
the nut. To attach a wire to a surface of the airplane,
you'd be just fine with CERAMIC fasteners as long as
the goal of bringing the two critical surfaces togehter
has been achieved.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Z-diagrams moved?? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
There's a link on this page:
http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html
This one:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
Regards,
Matt-
> Can't find 'em online anymore... link broken?
>
> I'm trying to have a discussion about PM starter run-on with another
> fellow, and it's hard if I can't cite my sources ;-)
>
> Thanks for any pointers to the reference docs.
>
> -Bill B
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
Message 9
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Dan,
I, and I'm sure many others on this list, appreciate your thought
provoking message regarding "grounding". We also appreciate Bob's
input. Many has been the time when I have wondered about something but
was "afraid" to suggest the idea on list for fear of being "shot down".
Keep posting...keep asking questions... This is how we all learn.
Bret Smith
RV 9A
----- Original Message -----
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: grounds
Bob,
I should have mentioned that part of what I was trying to accomplish
by not installing the platenut behind where the battery ground cable
attaches to the firewall was to make a place in the cockpit area to pick
up a good ground.
Your expertise in these matters far exceeds mine. So I shall go out
and rivet in a 1/4 inch platenut the way the plans show!
Hey, I thought you were supposed to be on vacation!
do not archive
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 7/28/2006 10:58:38 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 7/28/2006 9:31:56 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
> The threads will contact to the metal part of the nut just
fine. I
> don't know of any problem of conduction through the platenut. I
just
> prefer the nut and washer. YMMV
Threads of a fastener have almost nothing to do with
conductivity of the joint. 99% happens at the surface
of a terminal held in contact with the surface opposite
the nut. To attach a wire to a surface of the airplane,
you'd be just fine with CERAMIC fasteners as long as
the goal of bringing the two critical surfaces togehter
has been achieved.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Antennas general |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D.Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net>
NOT RV Related
Just as a point of intrest, if you want V2/R, turn Number Lock on, hold
down Alt key and type 0178 on the Number Pad. When you release the Alt key
the pops up. Degrees (X) is 0176 and (X) is 0179. This is done through
Charicter Map and there are many more. Check it out in System Tools. It is
an automatic install for Windows XP but you might have to install it in
98/SE. Its on the Windows Disk.
John D.
Do Not Archive
> Since power is V^2/R if you increase voltage by a factor of 10 you
> increase power by a factor of 100 (10x10). A 100-fold increase in power
> is 20dB.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: little symbols -- was Antennas general |
In a message dated 7/28/2006 3:10:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
altoq@cebridge.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D.Heath" <altoq@cebridge.ne
t>
NOT RV Related
Just as a point of intrest, if you want V=B22/R, turn Number Lock on, hold
down Alt key and type 0178 on the Number Pad. When you release the Alt key
the =B2 pops up. Degrees (X=B0) is 0176 and (X=B3) is 0179. This is done th
rough
Charicter Map and there are many more. Check it out in System Tools. It is
an automatic install for Windows XP but you might have to install it in
98/SE. Its on the Windows Disk.
John D.
Do Not Archive
John,
Wall, all'll be!
How do you know all this stuff?
do not archive either
Dan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: little symbols -- was Antennas general |
Using Character Map
You can use Character Map to copy and paste special characters into
your documents, such as the trademark symbol, special mathematical
characters, or a character from the character set of another language.
Open Character Map.
Notes
a.. To open Character Map, click Start, point to All Programs, point
to Accessories, point to System Tools, and then click Character Map.
b.. For information about using Character Map, click Help in
Character Map.
Copied the above from Start, Help, character map in search field.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: little symbols -- was Antennas
general
In a message dated 7/28/2006 3:10:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
altoq@cebridge.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D.Heath"
<altoq@cebridge.net>
NOT RV Related
Just as a point of intrest, if you want V=B22/R, turn Number Lock
on, hold
down Alt key and type 0178 on the Number Pad. When you release the
Alt key
the =B2 pops up. Degrees (X=B0) is 0176 and (X=B3) is 0179. This is
done through
Charicter Map and there are many more. Check it out in System Tools.
It is
an automatic install for Windows XP but you might have to install it
in
98/SE. Its on the Windows Disk.
John D.
Do Not Archive
John,
Wall, all'll be!
How do you know all this stuff?
do not archive either
Dan
Message 13
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| Subject: | FW: Rosenfeld Diabetes Fund |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kenneth Melvin" <melvinke@coho.net>
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:53 PM
Looking forward to Monday - see you about 10:30!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 3:02 PM
Monday would be fine, but any of those days can be made to suit. How about
1030 hrs on Monday? Take Sunset to exit 57 (North Plains); left over the
overpass (South) on Glencoe 2.4 miles then right on Wren Rd 0.5 mile; left
on Leisy 0.5 mile; right on Bagley ( a row of 15 homes along an airstrip).
We are 33636 NW Bagley, with a white rail fence and carport out front. Ph
503-693-3645 if lost.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:29 AM
Sounds great. I could come out next week - MON, THURS or FRI. Which day
would work best for you?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 11:09 AM
I would enjoy that! How about joining us for coffee one morning out here in
the country? I can be pretty flexible about dates -- you say when. Beth
Morris has a map showing the way to our home, that we used for the Residents
when we held the annual barbecues here.
Yours,
Kenneth
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:58 AM
Hi Dr. Melvin -
Any chance we could get together sometime soon to chat about the Rosenfeld
Diabetes Fund, and perhaps a few other things too about which I'd appreciate
your thoughts? Sandy Miller with diabetes education has been talking with
me recently about some curriculum needs they have, and I'd appreciate your
input as to whether or not these needs might be appropriate for the fund.
We should probably catch up on the Appearance Center as well. I could meet
you someplace for lunch or coffee - whatever would be convenient... thanks!
DISCLAIMER:
This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified
that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or
any information contained in the message. If you have received this message
in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete
this message.
DISCLAIMER:
This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified
that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or
any information contained in the message. If you have received this message
in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete
this message.
DISCLAIMER:
This message is intended for the sole use of the addressee, and may contain
information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure
under applicable law. If you are not the addressee you are hereby notified
that you may not use, copy, disclose, or distribute to anyone the message or
any information contained in the message. If you have received this message
in error, please immediately advise the sender by reply email and delete
this message.
Message 14
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Db=10 log (P1/P2)
Db log (V1/V2)
Hopper -
....... couldn`t have put it better! or shorter! dB or not dB.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:ASCII CODES :-=DE? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 7/28/06 4:05:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
> Wall, all'll be!
>
> How do you know all this stuff?
>
> do not archive either
>
> Dan
============================
It's easy Dan ... All you have to do is read your Windows manual ... It's all
there. Matter of fact this stuff goes all the way back to DOS.
All you have to do is read ... But, remember... Don't believe anything you
hear and only half of what you read and question everything that comes across
the Internet.
:-
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
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