AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Fri 09/08/06


Total Messages Posted: 28



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:05 AM - Re: Dual radio interference  (Steve & Denise)
     2. 04:20 AM - Re: JPI remote mount..... (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
     3. 05:23 AM - Re: Single Display EFIS (Peter Braswell)
     4. 05:29 AM - Re: gmcjetpilot (Mark Sletten)
     5. 05:45 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 05:56 AM - Re: AOPA battery article (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 06:23 AM - Re: JPI remote mount..... (Kelly McMullen)
     8. 06:35 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Dave N6030X)
     9. 07:17 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Alan K. Adamson)
    10. 08:14 AM - Fw: Wasted message size (Fergus Kyle)
    11. 08:42 AM - Re: gmcjetpilot (jack lucas)
    12. 08:45 AM - 2.0 Farad Capacitor? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
    13. 09:32 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Brian Lloyd)
    14. 09:40 AM - Re: Wasted message size (Fergus Kyle)
    15. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: Wasted message size (Matt Dralle)
    16. 10:31 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Dave N6030X)
    17. 10:49 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Bob Lee)
    18. 11:14 AM - Re: Dual radio interference (europa flugzeug fabrik)
    19. 11:32 AM - Re: 2.0 Farad Capacitor? (Chris In Madison)
    20. 11:40 AM - Re: OV Module additional requirement (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    21. 11:58 AM - Re: 2.0 Farad Capacitor? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    22. 01:15 PM - Re: JPI remote mount..... (Kevin Horton)
    23. 01:34 PM - Re: JPI remote mount..... (A DeMarzo)
    24. 01:52 PM - Re: JPI remote mount..... (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
    25. 04:59 PM - Alternator Problem - Not in plane (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
    26. 05:50 PM - Re: Alternator Problem - Not in plane (John D.Heath)
    27. 07:33 PM - be gone (Fergus Kyle)
    28. 08:40 PM - Re: Alternator Problem - Not in plane (Charlie England)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:05:09 AM PST US
    From: "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl@kingston.net>
    Subject: Re: Dual radio interference
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl@kingston.net> Freqs are far apart. 122.5 and 126.7. Antenna are about 4 ft apart. Steve RV7A > Time: 03:15:13 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dual radio interference > From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu@comcast.net> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu@comcast.net> > > > sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote: > > When I select both radio to listen to and then transmit on one, the transmission > is very garbled for me. ATC reads me loud and clear but I can barely make > out what I'm saying. Happens with both radios. > > How close are the 2 freqs on COM 1 and 2 when this phenomenon occurs? I couldnt > duplicate the phenomenon using two VHF handhelds, unless the freqs were really > close together. That's also like the two devices are within inches of each > other, not the case of an airplane antenna installation. > > Fred F. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60253#60253 >


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:20:07 AM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: JPI remote mount.....
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/7/06 12:06:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlbaker@msbit.net writes: > Does anyone have any experience with remote mounting a JPI > EDM 700 head separate from the electronics case. Poor "due > diligence" on my part shows that in the Bellanca Viking, pre '75, > there aren't a lot of options as to mounting locations....except > top, dead center where my altimeter now resides (welded in > panel bars and bracing...rats!). I have a three inch location for > the 3 inch display and can make up a couple of AMPMODU IV > dual row connectors to extend from the head to the electronics. > Question is.....how long could I rerasonably expect to make the > ribbon cables without problems. I know this is a loaded question > since one doesn't know the specifics of internal hardware > (suspect a serial interface to the head), so shooting in the > dark...JPI are adamant about not entertaining questions of this > sort. Period. > > Jim Baker > 580.788.2779 > Elmore City, OK ============================ Jim: Of course JPI won't answer your question, it would totally change their warranty on the item and if something went wrong you would say "You told me I could do that." There is noting in the electronics signal that will restrict additional length to the JPI. You can probably run 25 feet before a voltage drop would start causing problems. But, why not entertain the idea about a remote mounted "BUDD BOX". Probably off the bottom of the panel or is there room between the seats? I know the Bellanca Viking uses many different types of construction throughout. Is there any place above your head - between the seats, where you can mount a BUDD BOX? Off a support frame tubing? Or off the floor on a small stanchion? How about on top of the glare shield, again in a BUDD BOX? Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:23:43 AM PST US
    From: "Peter Braswell" <pbraswell@alterthought.com>
    Subject: Single Display EFIS
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Peter Braswell" <pbraswell@alterthought.com> Carlos, A bit of food for thought... I have a BMA EFIS One and I absolutlely love it. I originally was going to put all the engine instrumentation on the E1 to have a nice minimalistic panel. For various reasons (chief among them was that I was convinced I was going to install an auto-conversion -- which I ended up not doing). Anyway, like you I have a backup AS and ALT and all steam gauges for the engine instruments. This inadvertantly saved "down time" as my E1 had to go back to BMA for some service work. Moral of the story: if you put everything on one "box" it will probably be a non-event in the case of failure in VFR conditions, but consider having to send your single EFIS unit back for repair after you are down safe. You'll be grounded if you were relying on that device for your engine instrumentation. Bottom line: I'd try to conceive of some way to split the engine instruementation from the nav data either by two distinctly separate EFIS boxes or a hybrid of EFIS + steam gauges. FWIW, Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Single Display EFIS --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Carlos Trigo" --> <trigo@mail.telepac.pt> Listers Does anybody have any experience flying with a single display EFIS, with graphical engine monitor? Can you please share your impressions, mainly by the fact to have to change from the PFD to the Engine page because of the single screen. Since I will have backup analog instruments for airspeed, altitude and attitude, I'm thinking in saving some money not buying the second EFIS display unit, hence need to know if anybody already flying thinks it is perfectly doable. TIA Carlos


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:29:10 AM PST US
    From: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com>
    Subject: Re: gmcjetpilot
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mark Sletten" <marknlisa@hometel.com> Both Paul and GMCJetpilot (which I still find aggravating that he's unwilling to sign his posts with his name...) are like the neighborhood delinquents. Sure, every once in a while they go out of their way to help someone -- they'll mow the widow's lawn, or help the neighbor who's husband is out of town shovel the drive, but they probably only do it because their Mom's told them to... Most of the time, though, they run around pulling chains and depositing flaming bags of (verbal) dog feces on our neighborhood porches leaving others to stomp out the flames and clean up the mess. After awhile, the occasional lawn mowing or drive shoveling doesn't make up for the hassle and annoyance -- you're just glad when they grow up and move away. Kids will be kids, but you always know it's temporary... Just deleting the rants is a great solution -- for me. I've been reading this list for several years and it's easy for me to spot the good, the bad and the ugly. But the new guy/gals on the list can't. As the moderator of a list dedicated to the exchange of simple ideas based on logic and observation, Bob feels he has moral OBLIGATION to respond to the crap so new guys aren't lost in the wilderness of circular arguments about... well... crap, mostly. I, for one, have seen Bob stomp on enough flaming bags. And I don't see Paul or GMCJetpilot (sigh!) growing up anytime soon. I'm glad to see Bob able to devote more of his valuable time to what he does best, investigate, learn and teach. Mark Sletten Legacy FG N828LM http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:45:11 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 01:08 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com> > >OK 'Lectron heads, let me know, did question just got dropped in the midst >of all the George-bantor, or is it too dumb to get an answer? > >The questions: > >1. can the OVM be modified to allow for three inputs: sense, trip, and >ground? (I don't want to crowbar the same place that I want to measure the >voltage.) > >2. Can one OVM detect and react to an OV event fast enough to trip the >correct alternator in a two alternator/OVM installation? > >The deatils are in the attached message. Your system narrative seems to describe two alternators running in parallel to a single battery. You've also expressed a desire to rate your system's load carrying ability by a dependence on both alternators running to drive a single bus. Running two or more engine driven power sources in parallel takes special regulators that talk to each other, compare present loads with respect to capacity of each alternator and agree on how the loads are divided so that each machine shares total load in proportion to it's ratings. On the Hawker 800, we can run both engine generators and the APU simultaneously and even tho the apu is a much smaller generator, one can check the running loads and see that all machines are carrying their "fair" share . . . i.e. all read close to the same percentage of total load. I've not studied the details of the generator control units supplied with this system but I'd be surprised if the built-in OV detection and shut down systems are not smart enough to know who is responsible for an OV condition; the generator over which I have responsibility -OR- some other machine in the system. If you use B&C regulators in some combination like that depicted in Z-12 (Main and Aux alternators driving a common bus), the regulators are designed to differentiate between an OV condition caused by "my alternator" or the "other guy's alternator" and respond accordingly. We call it selective OV trip. Without knowing more about the hardware you selected to deduce whether or not selective trip is possible/practical for your system. Let's look at the basics first. Under what conditions do you anticipate a 59A running load? Have you crafted a load analysis and filled out a form like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf I'm skeptical that you really need a 59A running capacity unless you have some form of electric heated windows, etc. Let's look over your numbers first. If you've a mind to use Excel as opposed to a paper form, the directory at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis . . . has several exemplar Load Analysis spread sheets you are invited to exploit for data and/or modify for your own use as you wish. When this is complete, let's revisit you alternator choices/options and see what it takes to make it all work. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:56:48 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: AOPA battery article
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 09:42 AM 9/7/2006 -0700, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> > >Bob, >Would you care to comment with regard to the article's assertion that >generators under 50 amps are adversely affected by the high capacity >RG35 batteries, in particular, as opposed to small alternators? Or >have you heard from the gentleman at Concorde? >I know alternators are a little more self limiting, but it seems like >the larger charging demand from the low resistance of that battery >would have adverse effects on both generators and alternators. Working on that. Received a clarification from Skip and guess what? Root cause for the recommendation has nothing to do with "overloading a generator." I'm editing the thing right now. Might have it done tomorrow. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:23:00 AM PST US
    From: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
    Subject: Re: JPI remote mount.....
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com> I don't know enough about the differences in their internal electronics, but EI offers a remote head for their UBG16 analyzer. Perhaps you could sell the JPI and get EI instead. FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/7/06 12:06:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > jlbaker@msbit.net writes: > >> Does anyone have any experience with remote mounting a JPI >> EDM 700 head separate from the electronics case. Poor "due >> diligence" on my part shows that in the Bellanca Viking, pre '75, >> there aren't a lot of options as to mounting locations....except >> top, dead center where my altimeter now resides (welded in >> panel bars and bracing...rats!). I have a three inch location for >> the 3 inch display and can make up a couple of AMPMODU IV >> dual row connectors to extend from the head to the electronics. >> Question is.....how long could I rerasonably expect to make the >> ribbon cables without problems. I know this is a loaded question >> since one doesn't know the specifics of internal hardware >> (suspect a serial interface to the head), so shooting in the >> dark...JPI are adamant about not entertaining questions of this >> sort. Period. >> >> Jim Baker >> 580.788.2779 >> Elmore City, OK > ============================


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:35:28 AM PST US
    From: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
    Subject: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com> Is anybody else having trouble getting Excel to open these? It locks up everytime I try one of them and gives me an error that Excel is trying to communicate with some other program using OLE. Dave Morris At 07:44 AM 9/8/2006, you wrote: I'm skeptical that you really need a 59A running capacity > unless you have some form of electric heated windows, etc. > Let's look over your numbers first. If you've a mind to > use Excel as opposed to a paper form, the directory at: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis > > . . . has several exemplar Load Analysis spread sheets > you are invited to exploit for data and/or modify for > your own use as you wish.


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:17:37 AM PST US
    From: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com>
    Subject: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" <aadamson@highrf.com> Dave, just checked with excel 2003 and they opened fine... Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave N6030X Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV Module additional requirement --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X --> <N6030X@DaveMorris.com> Is anybody else having trouble getting Excel to open these? It locks up everytime I try one of them and gives me an error that Excel is trying to communicate with some other program using OLE. Dave Morris At 07:44 AM 9/8/2006, you wrote: I'm skeptical that you really need a 59A running capacity > unless you have some form of electric heated windows, etc. > Let's look over your numbers first. If you've a mind to > use Excel as opposed to a paper form, the directory at: > >http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis > > . . . has several exemplar Load Analysis spread sheets > you are invited to exploit for data and/or modify for > your own use as you wish.


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:14:16 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Fw: Wasted message size
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 10:32 AM Subject: Wasted message size | John, | Could you please discover and use a technique which does not | involve repeating an entire digest when sending a message. If you check the digest for today, you will find several hundred lines of text which have no bearing on the subject at hand. The Matronics QandA message shows how to avoid this for the comfort of readers. | Thanks | Ferg Kyle | Europa A064 914 Classic PS: I sent this as a personal request, but since you reject personal messages, I have included it in the net.


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:42:47 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: gmcjetpilot
    From: "jack lucas" <flyguy6a@aol.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "jack lucas" <flyguy6a@aol.com> I have a close relative diagnosed with "Narcissistic Personality Disorder". This person is never wrong, knows everything, never loses an argument, etc. Strikingly similar in behavior to gmcjet and Paul M. I'm no shrink, but find the similarities intriguing. For further illumination of the subject, just Google "Narcissistic Behavior" and the light may possibly dawn... Jack Lucas DO NOT ARCHIVE [quote="Mark Sletten"]Both Paul and GMCJetpilot (which I still find aggravating that he's unwilling to sign his posts with his name...) are like the neighborhood delinquents. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60366#60366


    Message 12


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    Time: 08:45:13 AM PST US
    From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" <a.s.elliott@cox.net>
    Subject: 2.0 Farad Capacitor?
    Today I saw an ad for a 2.0 farad capacitor ($40) from an auto audio company. Anyone know what something like that might be used for? It was referred to as a "stiffening" capacitor. Turns out they make these with capacities as high as *50* farad! (Lots more $$.) Would such devices have any application to an aircraft system? Yes, I know that even a very large capacitor holds very few amp-hours compared to even a small battery, but I wondered what other uses they might have. Andy Elliott N481HY/AA-1(TD,160)/KFFZ That's "One Hot Yankee" http://members.cox.net/n481hy/


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:32:57 AM PST US
    From: Brian Lloyd <brian-av@lloyd.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-av@lloyd.com> On Sep 8, 2006, at 6:34 AM, Dave N6030X wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X > <N6030X@DaveMorris.com> > > Is anybody else having trouble getting Excel to open these? It > locks up everytime I try one of them and gives me an error that > Excel is trying to communicate with some other program using OLE. Try grabbing a copy of OpenOffice. (http://www.openoffice.org) I find it seems to do well with many different file formats. The price is right. It is good enough that I am moving away from the Microsoft office suite as a result. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:40:19 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Re: Wasted message size
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> John Esch, I couldn't find them! But I asked Matt Dralle to tell you how to avoid the problem and I hope he will do so. A busy guy, he has made the job of constructing SO easy by supplying these nets that we mustn't convince him otherwise! Stay tuned............ Cheers Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Esch" <jfesch@earthlink.net> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Wasted message size | Ferg | I have look around on Matronics and can't find the Q&A section. I see the FAQ link but I do not have permissions to view it. Any ideas? | | John | | -----Original Message----- | >From: Fergus Kyle <VE3LVO@rac.ca> | >Sent: Sep 8, 2006 7:32 AM | >To: jfesch@earthlink.net | >Subject: Wasted message size | > | >John, | > Could you please discover and use a technique which does not | >involve repeating an entire digest when sending a message. If you check the | >digest for today, you will find several hundred lines of text which have no | >bearing on the subject at hand. The Matronics QandA message shows how to | >avoid this for the comfort of readers. | >Thanks | >Ferg Kyle | >Europa A064 914 Classic | >


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:46:53 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Re: Wasted message size
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com> Ferg/John et al, The FAQ for the List can be found here: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm It contains lots and lots of great information about the List features. At the end is also a section on Usage Guidelines that details what is expected of members when participating in discussions. I hope everyone will take a minute to have a look at the List FAQ right now. Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:31:50 AM PST US
    From: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
    Subject: Re: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com> I've got the latest updated copy of Excel 2002 SP3 but it's trying to do something strange with these particular files. I don't have this problem with other Excel files. Dave At 11:31 AM 9/8/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd <brian-av@lloyd.com> > > >On Sep 8, 2006, at 6:34 AM, Dave N6030X wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X >><N6030X@DaveMorris.com> >> >>Is anybody else having trouble getting Excel to open these? It >>locks up everytime I try one of them and gives me an error that >>Excel is trying to communicate with some other program using OLE. > >Try grabbing a copy of OpenOffice. (http://www.openoffice.org) I find >it seems to do well with many different file formats. The price is >right. It is good enough that I am moving away from the Microsoft >office suite as a result. > >Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way >brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 >+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) > >I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . > Antoine de Saint-Exupry > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:49:21 AM PST US
    From: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
    Subject: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com> Bob, Thanks for your reply. I can tell that the path I was trying to go down is not the one to take (two alternators on one bus). The load analysis shows 15 amps on the battery bus (electronic ignition/fuel injection), 6 amps on the endurance bus (minimum equipment for safe flight) and 36 amps on the Main bus. It is posted at: http://flyboybob.com/web_pages/kr2/index.htm, if you click the link to "electrical" in the left frame the first thing that comes up is the load analysis. I'll go with the 40 amp main alternator and 20 amp back up and just do the switching manually. It seems that making it automatic will not be as simple as I had hopped. Once again, thanks for sharing your experience. Regards, Bob Lee N52BL KR2 Suwanee, GA 91% done only 65% to go! -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 8:44 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV Module additional requirement --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 01:08 PM 9/7/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com> > >OK 'Lectron heads, let me know, did question just got dropped in the midst >of all the George-bantor, or is it too dumb to get an answer? > >The questions: > >1. can the OVM be modified to allow for three inputs: sense, trip, and >ground? (I don't want to crowbar the same place that I want to measure the >voltage.) > >2. Can one OVM detect and react to an OV event fast enough to trip the >correct alternator in a two alternator/OVM installation? > >The deatils are in the attached message. Your system narrative seems to describe two alternators running in parallel to a single battery. You've also expressed a desire to rate your system's load carrying ability by a dependence on both alternators running to drive a single bus. Running two or more engine driven power sources in parallel takes special regulators that talk to each other, compare present loads with respect to capacity of each alternator and agree on how the loads are divided so that each machine shares total load in proportion to it's ratings. On the Hawker 800, we can run both engine generators and the APU simultaneously and even tho the apu is a much smaller generator, one can check the running loads and see that all machines are carrying their "fair" share . . . i.e. all read close to the same percentage of total load. I've not studied the details of the generator control units supplied with this system but I'd be surprised if the built-in OV detection and shut down systems are not smart enough to know who is responsible for an OV condition; the generator over which I have responsibility -OR- some other machine in the system. If you use B&C regulators in some combination like that depicted in Z-12 (Main and Aux alternators driving a common bus), the regulators are designed to differentiate between an OV condition caused by "my alternator" or the "other guy's alternator" and respond accordingly. We call it selective OV trip. Without knowing more about the hardware you selected to deduce whether or not selective trip is possible/practical for your system. Let's look at the basics first. Under what conditions do you anticipate a 59A running load? Have you crafted a load analysis and filled out a form like: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis/Blank_Form.pdf I'm skeptical that you really need a 59A running capacity unless you have some form of electric heated windows, etc. Let's look over your numbers first. If you've a mind to use Excel as opposed to a paper form, the directory at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis . . . has several exemplar Load Analysis spread sheets you are invited to exploit for data and/or modify for your own use as you wish. When this is complete, let's revisit you alternator choices/options and see what it takes to make it all work. Bob . . .


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:14:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Dual radio interference
    From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu@comcast.net>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" <n3eu@comcast.net> sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote: > Freqs are far apart. 122.5 and 126.7. 4 MHz apart is huge. A fault in a COM to cause that is possible, but not the same fault on 2 radios within SuperLotto odds. Is it just on one or both of those frequencies? Possibly also in a specific geographic area? If so, maybe theres a TV broadcast tower which in combination with your xmit on the problem freq, is trashy signal being received on the selected freq of the other COM. Otherwise, whats common in the symptoms is when BOTH are selected. Per picture of a 340 audio panel, looks like tactile type switches, not pushbuttons. That means, if not mechanical relays, then semiconductor switches and a faulty component somewhere. However, this may be difficult to duplicate on an avionics bench. So first I would pull the audio panel, and hot wire the system. It looks like we just need a Dconnector or two of opposite sex, bringing out 6 wires (mic audio, mic key, and phone audio each). Then, jury-rigged to your headset and mic or PTT setup, see if we still have the problem, which I presume occurs also on the ground. If not, its the audio panel, and not anything installed in the aircraft. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60404#60404


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:32:25 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 2.0 Farad Capacitor?
    From: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com>
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris In Madison" <cowens@cnw.com> Finally, a question I know the answer to! :-) In the competitive car audio community (to which I formerly belonged), the amplifiers in use often require an enormous amount of instantaneous current to meet the demands of peak musical transients. Generally speaking, batteries (as I understand them) don't have the response time necessary to deliver that short-burst current. Capacitors, on the other hand, were designed for this kind of storage and instantaneous current delivery. So, to pick up the slack where batteries cannot, large capacitor banks are useful. And trust me, they work :-) The one thing you don't want to do, though, is accidentally short the terminals on one of these charged-up capacitors. Ever blown up a perfectly good pair of wire strippers cutting through hot romex in your house? Same basic effect. BWAAAP!!! Temporary blindness and a hole in your strippers or screwdriver (or they're welded to the two terminals). Best regards, Chris -------- Chris Owens Waunakee, WI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60407#60407


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:40:14 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: OV Module additional requirement
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 01:43 PM 9/8/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com> > >Bob, > >Thanks for your reply. I can tell that the path I was trying to go down is >not the one to take (two alternators on one bus). The load analysis shows >15 amps on the battery bus (electronic ignition/fuel injection), 6 amps on >the endurance bus (minimum equipment for safe flight) and 36 amps on the >Main bus. >It is posted at: http://flyboybob.com/web_pages/kr2/index.htm, if you click >the link to "electrical" in the left frame the first thing that comes up is >the load analysis. > >I'll go with the 40 amp main alternator and 20 amp back up and just do the >switching manually. It seems that making it automatic will not be as simple >as I had hopped. > >Once again, thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure you need to resort to manual switching. If you wire per Z-12 with B&C hardware, automatic assumption of loads by the auxiliary alternator is built in. Both alternators are ON all the time . . . Aux alternator is set for 13.0 volts while main alternator is set for 14.2 volts. The aux alternator regulator sees "too high" bus voltage and relaxes. If main altenrator goes off line, bus voltage sags and aux alternator comes alive. If loads on the Aux Alternator exceed rated output of 20A, then the "AUX ALT LOADED" light flashes. You turn things off until the light stops flashing. But your load analysis suggests that Z-13/8 would be all you need. How much RUNNING current does the pitot heater draw when submerged in an ice bath? This is the real load-analysis current. Are the position lights LED? if not, 2.0A for nav lights is too low. The dynamo relay would be an E-bus load, not a battery bus load. Ignition of 8A is REALLY big . . . what engine are you using and what ignition system? Landing and taxi lights are generally not combined with pitot heat. You may adopt an operating protocol that runs pitot heat in VMC when lights would be off. Let's tweak this analysis a bit. I'm not convinced that you need a 40/20 system . . . and 40/8 may well get done what you need to do. Bob . . .


    Message 21


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    Time: 11:58:25 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: 2.0 Farad Capacitor?
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> At 08:44 AM 9/8/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Today I saw an ad for a 2.0 farad capacitor ($40) from an auto audio >company. Anyone know what something like that might be used for? It was >referred to as a "stiffening" capacitor. > >Turns out they make these with capacities as high as *50* farad! (Lots >more $$.) Would such devices have any application to an aircraft >system? Yes, I know that even a very large capacitor holds very few >amp-hours compared to even a small battery, but I wondered what other uses >they might have. Capacitor technology has mushroomed in the past 20 years. I recall my dad (Navy electrician aboard wooden mine sweeper in the Aleutian islands) telling me that a "one farad capacitor would be the size of this room". Nowadays, one may purchase a 1 farad capacitor good for 5.5 volts in a 1" x 1/2" case: http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T063/1184.pdf The poor individuals who do not particularly value their ears are fond of the devices you've cited for what they're told is a quantum jump in performance for their killowatt mobile sound systems. Further, if "one farad is good, many farads is better", hence devices like . . . http://www.sonicelectronix.com/pictures.php?id=7409 . . . are good for separating our young friends from about $150 of their lunch money. As a practical matter, one might consider buffering the bus in their airplane with a large capacitor if they were carrying small, low capacity but high current batteries needed only for engine cranking. Such batteries are not yet available . . . but they're coming. A number of systems propose or even use large capacitors to replace storage batteries. See: http://www.tavrima.com/Alternato.PDF#search=%22supercapacitor%20engine%20cranking%22 http://www.tavrima.com/home.html http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/support/papers.html http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FZX/is_10_67/ai_92586564 I love this business, unlike horse racing and growing tomatoes, this industry rolls out quantum jump technology every year or so. It's a great time to be alive. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 22


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    Time: 01:15:10 PM PST US
    From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: JPI remote mount.....
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> Given the way that JPI attacked Matt Dralle, who hosts this very useful e-mail list, and the way that they restricted users from being able to download data from their engine monitors, I would buy a unit from any company but JPI. They are a company that does not respect their customers, or other people. Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada do not archive On 8 Sep 2006, at 09:21, Kelly McMullen wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen > <kellym@aviating.com> > > I don't know enough about the differences in their internal > electronics, but EI offers a remote head for their UBG16 analyzer. > Perhaps you could sell the JPI and get EI instead. > > FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote: >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com >> In a message dated 9/7/06 12:06:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >> jlbaker@msbit.net writes: >>> Does anyone have any experience with remote mounting a JPI EDM >>> 700 head separate from the electronics case. Poor "due >>> diligence" on my part shows that in the Bellanca Viking, pre >>> '75, there aren't a lot of options as to mounting >>> locations....except top, dead center where my altimeter now >>> resides (welded in panel bars and bracing...rats!). I have a >>> three inch location for the 3 inch display and can make up a >>> couple of AMPMODU IV dual row connectors to extend from the head >>> to the electronics. Question is.....how long could I rerasonably >>> expect to make the ribbon cables without problems. I know this >>> is a loaded question since one doesn't know the specifics of >>> internal hardware (suspect a serial interface to the head), so >>> shooting in the dark...JPI are adamant about not entertaining >>> questions of this sort. Period. >>> Jim Baker >>> 580.788.2779 >>> Elmore City, OK >> ============================


    Message 23


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    Time: 01:34:52 PM PST US
    From: "A DeMarzo" <planepubs@ev1.net>
    Subject: Re: JPI remote mount.....
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "A DeMarzo" <planepubs@ev1.net> Gotta agree with that one! Rewrote their software when EGVIEWS came out with a program that read it and put everything into perspective with charts and graphs. Didn't give a flip about what anyone wanted. Electronics International (EI) has some fantastic units. And they're customer friendly. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01@rogers.com> Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:13 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: JPI remote mount..... > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > <khorton01@rogers.com> > > Given the way that JPI attacked Matt Dralle, who hosts this very useful > e-mail list, and the way that they restricted users from being able to > download data from their engine monitors, I would buy a unit from any > company but JPI. They are a company that does not respect their > customers, or other people. > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > do not archive > > On 8 Sep 2006, at 09:21, Kelly McMullen wrote: > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen >> <kellym@aviating.com> >> >> I don't know enough about the differences in their internal electronics, >> but EI offers a remote head for their UBG16 analyzer. Perhaps you could >> sell the JPI and get EI instead. >> >> FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote: >>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com >>> In a message dated 9/7/06 12:06:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >>> jlbaker@msbit.net writes: >>>> Does anyone have any experience with remote mounting a JPI EDM 700 >>>> head separate from the electronics case. Poor "due diligence" on my >>>> part shows that in the Bellanca Viking, pre '75, there aren't a lot >>>> of options as to mounting locations....except top, dead center where >>>> my altimeter now resides (welded in panel bars and bracing...rats!). >>>> I have a three inch location for the 3 inch display and can make up >>>> a couple of AMPMODU IV dual row connectors to extend from the head >>>> to the electronics. Question is.....how long could I rerasonably >>>> expect to make the ribbon cables without problems. I know this is a >>>> loaded question since one doesn't know the specifics of internal >>>> hardware (suspect a serial interface to the head), so shooting in the >>>> dark...JPI are adamant about not entertaining questions of this sort. >>>> Period. >>>> Jim Baker >>>> 580.788.2779 >>>> Elmore City, OK >>> ============================ > > >


    Message 24


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    Time: 01:52:28 PM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Re: JPI remote mount.....
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/8/06 4:38:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, planepubs@ev1.net writes: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > <khorton01@rogers.com> > > > > Given the way that JPI attacked Matt Dralle, who hosts this very useful > > e-mail list, and the way that they restricted users from being able to > > download data from their engine monitors, I would buy a unit from any > > company but JPI. They are a company that does not respect their > > customers, or other people. > > > > Kevin Horton > > Ottawa, Canada > > do not archive ====================================== Kevin: Sounds like a good case. I install about 3 to 4 fuel flow meters a year and recently tried to become a distributor of EI. EI is very good with their customer support but they leave their installers hanging. I was able to get BETTER prices over the Internet than through EI as a distributor. Go figure. I believe they judge all distributors using ACS as a gage. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada


    Message 25


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    Time: 04:59:53 PM PST US
    From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
    Subject: Alternator Problem - Not in plane
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com OK, I give up and need some help and some new blood for this one. I have gone through 4 alternator: 2 New 1 Rebuilt 1 Junk Yard I put them on the Pep Boys test bench and run them at test speed and load. Here is the results: ALL have shown an out put of 10.5 V and 60 to 80 Amps. I then had the opportunity to use a home made test bench on two of the alternators: 1 New 1 Rebuilt Here are the results: 12.2 V @ 80 Amps ??? I do not recall the voltage but the amperage was 65 Amps Now, as I'm sure you all know you cannot charge a battery with 12.2 V. You need 13.8 to 14.2 V So, what do you think the problem is? BTW, the alternators are from a 1999 Hyundai Elantra Station Wagon. I even went to a Hyundai Dealer ... They don't have a clue. Barry


    Message 26


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    Time: 05:50:15 PM PST US
    From: "John D.Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Problem - Not in plane
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D.Heath" <altoq@cebridge.net> Barry, Diode (One of three pressed into the case) or diode trio. Shot in the Dark John D. DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 27


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    Time: 07:33:28 PM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: be gone
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> I will ask you too sir to vacate the AeroElectric List. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic


    Message 28


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    Time: 08:40:54 PM PST US
    From: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Alternator Problem - Not in plane
    --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net> FLYaDIVE@aol.com wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com > >OK, I give up and need some help and some new blood for this one. > >I have gone through 4 alternator: >2 New >1 Rebuilt >1 Junk Yard > >I put them on the Pep Boys test bench and run them at test speed and load. >Here is the results: >ALL have shown an out put of 10.5 V and 60 to 80 Amps. > >I then had the opportunity to use a home made test bench on two of the >alternators: >1 New >1 Rebuilt >Here are the results: >12.2 V @ 80 Amps >??? I do not recall the voltage but the amperage was 65 Amps > >Now, as I'm sure you all know you cannot charge a battery with 12.2 V. You >need 13.8 to 14.2 V >So, what do you think the problem is? >BTW, the alternators are from a 1999 Hyundai Elantra Station Wagon. > >I even went to a Hyundai Dealer ... They don't have a clue. > >Barry > Are they really rated to put out 60-80 amps? If not, try loading them at rated output current.




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