---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/11/06: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:23 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Gilles Thesee) 2. 06:52 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 3. 07:23 AM - Troll Hypervox intercom pinout (Dave N6030X) 4. 07:37 AM - Fawcett Pump Data???? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 07:45 AM - Fuel Pump Switch(es) (glen matejcek) 6. 07:57 AM - Re: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout (Bill Steer) 7. 08:04 AM - Re: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout (Bill Steer) 8. 08:22 AM - Re: Fawcett Pump Data???? (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 9. 08:27 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (OldBob Siegfried) 10. 08:30 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 08:46 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Brian Lloyd) 12. 08:46 AM - Re: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout (Bill Steer) 13. 08:58 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Bill Denton) 14. 09:00 AM - Re: Fawcett Pump Data???? (Steve Allison) 15. 09:12 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 16. 10:48 AM - Antenna locations in an RV9 (Gerry Filby) 17. 11:14 AM - Re: Antenna locations in an RV9 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 18. 12:00 PM - Re: Antenna locations in an RV9 (Gerry Filby) 19. 12:53 PM - Re: Antenna locations in an RV9 (Richard Dudley) 20. 01:32 PM - Re: Antenna locations in an RV9 (Gerry Filby) 21. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Brian Lloyd) 22. 01:50 PM - Re: Antenna locations in an RV9 (Richard Dudley) 23. 03:22 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Marty) 24. 06:03 PM - Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses (Peter Braswell) 25. 08:10 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:23:30 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Hi all, >> >> On my electric only system I simply switch pumps to switch tanks...No >> selector valve...Just a non return valve in each line joining to a tee >> then up to the standards vans selector that has been plumbed to act as >> an on-off valve. I had to design a fuel circuit for an electrically dependant engine : in order to achieve true redundancy I had to run each pump from a separate battery. The main pump runs from the main battery, and is on whenever the mags are "on". The boost pump runs from the auxiliary battery, and has a switch. The fuel valve works the normal way. For the pilot, everything works as in a engine with mechanical pump. No single electric failure can deprive the engine of its fuel supply. A schematic of my setup can be seen at http://contrails.free.fr/engine_pierburg.php (Scroll down to the bottom of the page) FWIW Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Absolutely correct Brian, That is the one downside I came up with too. Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit more...:) Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:10 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd --> On Sep 10, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis)" > > On my electric only system I simply switch pumps to switch tanks...No > selector valve...Just a non return valve in each line joining to a tee > then up to the standards vans selector that has been plumbed to act as > an on-off valve. My only concern with that would be that a pump failure could render 1/2 your fuel unavailable. Several aircraft have been lost on long over-water flights when electric transfer pumps have failed thus rendering necessary fuel unavailable. Something to think about. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . - Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:24 AM PST US From: Dave N6030X Subject: AeroElectric-List: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X Does anyone happen to have the pinout diagram for a Troll Avionics Hypervox intercom? Thanks, Dave Morris 1960 Mooney M20A N6030X at 52F ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:24 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fawcett Pump Data???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" I spent as much time as I could searching the 'net for specifications on Fawcett pumps popular with the OBAM aircraft industry. Don't have time to search any more today, need to attend one of those "$1,000 meetings" (ten engineers and managers sit around table for an hour). If anyone runs across a source for this data, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:14 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" George / Kevin- George- "... an on/off valve on each tank introduces problems and complexity..." Boy, am I glad you wrote that! I completely missed the part about independent fuel valves. Kevin, besides all the good points George makes, and as someone pointed out a while back on one of these lists, you will only find a "BOTH" position on a fuel selector in a high wing single engine airplane. The low wing planes have left, right, and off. With a high wing plane, you will sometimes see quite an imbalance develop when drawing fuel from both tanks simultaneously, even with the head pressure caused by the tank location. This effect could be much greater in a low wing installation. If you had the ability to have both tanks plumbed to the engine at the same time, when one tank emptied you could suck air into the system. Obviously, this would not be good. I would definitely recommend against two fuel valves. Sorry for not catching that sooner- glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:37 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" Yes. I'll send it to you off-line. Bill > Does anyone happen to have the pinout diagram for a Troll Avionics > Hypervox intercom? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:36 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" Your email address was found in a "blacklist database" and my response would not go through. Do you have another email address where I can send the document for the intercom? Bill Do not archive > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X > > > Does anyone happen to have the pinout diagram for a Troll Avionics > Hypervox intercom? ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fawcett Pump Data???? From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" http://www.facet-purolator.com/mcl/pages/frame_src/appref_frmsrc.html The solid state cube pumps are the standard for carb'd fuel systems. They come in various flowrates and pressures both with and without in built check valves. I ran these for 400 hours and worked perfectly. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 7:36 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fawcett Pump Data???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> I spent as much time as I could searching the 'net for specifications on Fawcett pumps popular with the OBAM aircraft industry. Don't have time to search any more today, need to attend one of those "$1,000 meetings" (ten engineers and managers sit around table for an hour). If anyone runs across a source for this data, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:27:46 AM PST US From: OldBob Siegfried Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried Good Morning Frank, I've been away for a few days and am just catching up on my E-mail so I have not yet digested this thread. However, the following statement piques my curiosity. "Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit more...:)" Would you mean by this statement that you do not want to run a tank dry or that you feel it is actually dangerous to do so? May I ask what sort of an engine is being fed and why you feel the need for it to never be allowed to run dry? Many light aircraft, both certified and experimental, have multiple fuel tanks. Some Bonanzas have six separate fuel tanks. If a half hours worth of fuel is to be considered unusable in each tank, a lot of payload and range is being lost. The vast majority of commonly used light plane engines are driving a solidly connected propellor that will windmill quite well following a loss of fuel flow. I understand that some of the experimental airplanes do have propellors that will declutch or otherwise not drive the engine if power is lost, but that is not true of most. Running a fuel tank dry is a very viable fuel management operation if it is done correctly. Any more information or thoughts you would care to mention? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A Downers Grove, IL LL22 --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Absolutely correct Brian, > > That is the one downside I came up with too. > Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each > tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each > tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit > more...:) > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > --> > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis) wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George > > (Corvallis)" > > > > On my electric only system I simply switch pumps > to switch tanks...No > > selector valve...Just a non return valve in each > line joining to a tee > > then up to the standards vans selector that has > been plumbed to act as > > an on-off valve. > > My only concern with that would be that a pump > failure could render > 1/2 your fuel unavailable. Several aircraft have > been lost on long > over-water flights when electric transfer pumps have > failed thus > rendering necessary fuel unavailable. Something to > think about. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline > Way > brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 > (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny > of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Well that depends. On a carbed engine it does not matter if you run a tank dry with Both tanks feeding the engine. The pump that draws air will simply airlock and cease to pump anything...It can't pump against the other pump that is pumping fuel. Secondly...even if the pump did pump air it simply gets flushed out of the float bowl in the carb. I have proved this over 400 hours in my last airplane. In my new FI'd airplane, Getting air to the servo would not be great but I really doubt the pump will pump any air against the 30 psi made by the other pump...I haven't tried to prove this yet. The really neat thing about this install is that you can even lose all the fuel out of one tank on take off, plug a fuel filter etc, and the engine will still run normaly. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of glen matejcek Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 7:43 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "glen matejcek" --> George / Kevin- George- "... an on/off valve on each tank introduces problems and complexity..." Boy, am I glad you wrote that! I completely missed the part about independent fuel valves. Kevin, besides all the good points George makes, and as someone pointed out a while back on one of these lists, you will only find a "BOTH" position on a fuel selector in a high wing single engine airplane. The low wing planes have left, right, and off. With a high wing plane, you will sometimes see quite an imbalance develop when drawing fuel from both tanks simultaneously, even with the head pressure caused by the tank location. This effect could be much greater in a low wing installation. If you had the ability to have both tanks plumbed to the engine at the same time, when one tank emptied you could suck air into the system. Obviously, this would not be good. I would definitely recommend against two fuel valves. Sorry for not catching that sooner- glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:49 AM PST US From: Brian Lloyd Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Sep 11, 2006, at 7:43 AM, glen matejcek wrote: > airplane. The low wing planes have left, right, and off. With a > high wing > plane, you will sometimes see quite an imbalance develop when > drawing fuel > from both tanks simultaneously, even with the head pressure caused > by the > tank location. This effect could be much greater in a low wing > installation. The Nanchang CJ6A and Yak-52 both are low-wing airplanes with a single on/off fuel selector. The wing tanks gravity feed to a header tank at the low point in the fuselage. The header tank feeds the carb through a manual wobble pump, the firewall fuel shut-off, and the engine-driven fuel pump. All three tanks share a common vent. The header tank has small flapper valves to prevent fuel from flowing back out to a tank. Many complain of uneven fuel feed but I have found that keeping the ball in the center solves the problem. And even if you do get a substantial imbalance, getting the ball back into the center causes the fuel to feed from the more-full tank. It seems to work pretty well. Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline Way brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax) I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . . Antoine de Saint-Exupry ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:53 AM PST US From: "Bill Steer" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Troll Hypervox intercom pinout --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Steer" None of the email addresses you sent are working, Dave. Here's the message I get: Attempt to resend, or contact the recipient by alternate means to let them know about the issue. Recipient: Reason: The IP Address of the sender (205.152.59.73) was found in a DNS blacklist database and was therefore refused. My other mail is going out ok. Bill Do not archive > Does anyone happen to have the pinout diagram for a Troll Avionics > Hypervox intercom? ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:27 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: "Bill Denton" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Denton" aerobubba(at)earthlink.ne wrote: > George / Kevin- > > George- "... an on/off valve on each > tank introduces problems and complexity..." > > Boy, am I glad you wrote that! I completely missed the part about > independent fuel valves. Kevin, besides all the good points George makes, > and as someone pointed out a while back on one of these lists, you will > only find a "BOTH" position on a fuel selector in a high wing single engine > airplane. The low wing planes have left, right, and off. With a high wing > plane, you will sometimes see quite an imbalance develop when drawing fuel > from both tanks simultaneously, even with the head pressure caused by the > tank location. This effect could be much greater in a low wing > installation. If you had the ability to have both tanks plumbed to the > engine at the same time, when one tank emptied you could suck air into the > system. Obviously, this would not be good. I would definitely recommend > against two fuel valves. > > Sorry for not catching that sooner- > > glen matejcek > aerobubba@earthlink.net RE: Kevin, besides all the good points George makes, and as someone pointed out a while back on one of these lists, you will only find a "BOTH" position on a fuel selector in a high wing single engine airplane. JFTR: New Cessna 172's have a Left/Right/Both fuel selector Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60969#60969 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:55 AM PST US From: Steve Allison Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fawcett Pump Data???? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Steve Allison Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > If anyone > runs across a source for this data, I'd appreciate > hearing about it. > > > Bob . . . Facet website: http://www.facet-purolator.com/Default1.html ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:49 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" See below.... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of OldBob Siegfried Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 8:26 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried --> Good Morning Frank, I've been away for a few days and am just catching up on my E-mail so I have not yet digested this thread. However, the following statement piques my curiosity. "Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit more...:)" Would you mean by this statement that you do not want to run a tank dry or that you feel it is actually dangerous to do so? The biggest issue in running a tank dry is that you are now down to a single pump that can pump fuel...I.e a single point of failure. Certainly on a Carb'd install there is no issue whatsoever in running a tank dry as far as the engine is concerned. It will run quite happily...As I posted earlier that airlocked pump "SHOULD" not pump air against the head of the other pump that is still pumping fuel...and even if it did the air would be flushed harmlessly through the float bowl. On my new FI'd installation The pressure is higher so I seriously doubt any air would get to the engine but I have not proved this yet...If you did get air there there might be some spluttering, fixed simply by switching off the empty tank's pump. May I ask what sort of an engine is being fed and why you feel the need for it to never be allowed to run dry? Engine is an IO360 clone..see above. The roller vane pumps do not like to be run dry...They rely on the fuel to lubricate them and I am told they will fail if you run them dry...i don't personally know this for a fact however. I really need to do the tank dry pumping test...simply because if doing a big slip in a crosswind with low fuel level you could uncover a tank pick up....AS I said though, the air pump would have to overcome the pressure made by the opposite fuel pump...I really don't see that happening. Many light aircraft, both certified and experimental, have multiple fuel tanks. Some Bonanzas have six separate fuel tanks. If a half hours worth of fuel is to be considered unusable in each tank, a lot of payload and range is being lost. The vast majority of commonly used light plane engines are driving a solidly connected propellor that will windmill quite well following a loss of fuel flow. I understand that some of the experimental airplanes do have propellors that will declutch or otherwise not drive the engine if power is lost, but that is not true of most. Running a fuel tank dry is a very viable fuel management operation if it is done correctly. Any more information or thoughts you would care to mention? Sure...No one has asked why I went for 2 electric pumps with no mechanical pump?...Heres why...Eventually (after engine break in) I want to run Mogas in my Lycoming clone. Mogas has a higher vapour pressure than avgas and so is less tolerant of being sucked upon before boiling....If you make the fuel warmer it will boil with even less provocation (sucking). Now where is the Mechanica fuel pump?....In front of a HOT firewall sucking a fair distance from the tanks through pressure drops such as the selector valve and filters. Not normally an issue because the boost pump is running. So imagine this scenario...its a 100F day....You rotating on takeoff and your boost pump quits...Your running mogas, the HOT mechanical pump is now sucking as hard as it can...Will the fuel boil at the inlet to the pump?....Pretty likely I think. In realife one of my jobs is to design pumoing systems for all kinds of liquids...some high vapour pressure...Thats where my interest came from to put the pumps at the source of the fuel...Preferably in the tanks but mine are in the wingroots of the RV. Happy Skies, You too....These RV's are FAST...never flown at anything like these kinds of speeds before...:) Frank Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A Downers Grove, IL LL22 --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Absolutely correct Brian, > > That is the one downside I came up with too. > Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal > flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands > that might be a bit > more...:) > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > --> > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis) wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George > > (Corvallis)" > > > > On my electric only system I simply switch pumps > to switch tanks...No > > selector valve...Just a non return valve in each > line joining to a tee > > then up to the standards vans selector that has > been plumbed to act as > > an on-off valve. > > My only concern with that would be that a pump failure could render > 1/2 your fuel unavailable. Several aircraft have been lost on long > over-water flights when electric transfer pumps have failed thus > rendering necessary fuel unavailable. Something to think about. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline > Way > brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 > (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . > . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:15 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 From: Gerry Filby --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent whip and a TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of the wing spar outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I can just keep the connections under the foward center section covers. I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 advantages of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to pass the wires through the center section and ii) it gets a little more distance between the antenna cables and the wing strobe head cables. Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the center section ? __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:53 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Closer to engine noise, Not much room between the floor and underside of cover...Have to allow enough bend on the cable...Or use a right angled adaptor. Frank 7a...flying since Friday I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent whip and a TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of the wing spar outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I can just keep the connections under the foward center section covers. I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 advantages of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to pass the wires through the center section and ii) it gets a little more distance between the antenna cables and the wing strobe head cables. Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the center section ? __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:00:16 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 From: Gerry Filby --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Yup, right angle adaptor was where I was going ... engine noise is a very good point ... thx. g > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis)" > > Closer to engine noise, > > Not much room between the floor and underside of cover...Have to allow > enough bend on the cable...Or use a right angled adaptor. > > Frank > 7a...flying since Friday > > > I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent whip and a > TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of the wing spar > outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I can just keep the > connections under the foward center section covers. > > I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 advantages > of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to pass the wires through > the center section and ii) it gets a little more distance between the > antenna cables and the wing strobe head cables. > > Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the center section > ? > > __g__ > > ========================================================== > Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:20 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley Gerry, I put my transponder antenna in the center just in front of the spar in my -6A. Behind the console, there is no need for a right angle adaptor. My two comm antennas are left and right in front of the landing gear weldments well outboard of the centerline. There, I used right angle adaptors. With sound proofing material between the ribs of the floor about the thickness of the rib height, the adaptors seem adequately protected. With a carpet over the soundproofing material, the cable lies between the carpet and soundproofing material. I have about 100 hours on the aircraft and both transponder and comms work well. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A Gerry Filby wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > >I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent >whip and a TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of >the wing spar outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I >can just keep the connections under the foward center section >covers. > >I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 >advantages of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to >pass the wires through the center section and ii) it gets a >little more distance between the antenna cables and the wing >strobe head cables. > >Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the >center section ? > >__g__ > >========================================================== >Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com >---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 From: Gerry Filby --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Interesting, thanks for the comments. Question - with the transponder in the center are you seeing any affects of heat/dirt from the engine exhaust pipes ? g > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley > > > Gerry, > > I put my transponder antenna in the center just in front of > the spar in > my -6A. Behind the console, there is no need for a right angle adaptor. > My two comm antennas are left and right in front of the landing gear > weldments well outboard of the centerline. There, I used right angle > adaptors. With sound proofing material between the ribs of the floor > about the thickness of the rib height, the adaptors seem adequately > protected. With a carpet over the soundproofing material, the > cable lies > between the carpet and soundproofing material. I have about 100 > hours on > the aircraft and both transponder and comms work well. > > Regards, > > Richard Dudley > -6A > > Gerry Filby wrote: > > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > > > >I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent > >whip and a TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of > >the wing spar outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I > >can just keep the connections under the foward center section > >covers. > > > >I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 > >advantages of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to > >pass the wires through the center section and ii) it gets a > >little more distance between the antenna cables and the wing > >strobe head cables. > > > >Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the > >center section ? > > > >__g__ > > > >========================================================== > >Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com > >---------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:37:49 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: Brian Lloyd --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 08:57, Bill Denton wrote: > RE: Kevin, besides all the good points George makes, > and as someone pointed out a while back on one of these lists, you will > only find a "BOTH" position on a fuel selector in a high wing single engine > airplane. Well, it is probably not safe to use the words "always", "never", and "only" when describing systems. As I pointed out earlier, both the Nanchang CJ6A and Yak-52 are low-wing aircraft that have only an on/off fuel selector at the firewall. There is no way on either of these aircraft to select a left or right tank. They are always on "both". Brian Lloyd ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:49 PM PST US From: Richard Dudley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Antenna locations in an RV9 Gerry, The only effect that I see is some oil accumulation from the breather. I have not yet eliminated the oil on the undercarriage even though the breather is immediately above the left exhaust pipe. There has been no noticible effect on transponder function. RHDudley Gerry Filby wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > >Interesting, thanks for the comments. Question - with the >transponder in the center are you seeing any affects of >heat/dirt from the engine exhaust pipes ? > >g > > > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Richard Dudley >> >> >>Gerry, >> >>I put my transponder antenna in the center just in front of >>the spar in >>my -6A. Behind the console, there is no need for a right angle adaptor. >>My two comm antennas are left and right in front of the landing gear >>weldments well outboard of the centerline. There, I used right angle >>adaptors. With sound proofing material between the ribs of the floor >>about the thickness of the rib height, the adaptors seem adequately >>protected. With a carpet over the soundproofing material, the >>cable lies >>between the carpet and soundproofing material. I have about 100 >>hours on >>the aircraft and both transponder and comms work well. >> >>Regards, >> >>Richard Dudley >>-6A >> >>Gerry Filby wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>> >>> >>>I'm getting ready to install my antennas in my RV9 - COM bent >>>whip and a TPDR blade. I'd like to mount them just forward of >>>the wing spar outboard edges of the cockpit floor. I think I >>>can just keep the connections under the foward center section >>>covers. >>> >>>I get the sense that most people go behind the wing spar - 2 >>>advantages of mounting forward is that i) you don't have to >>>pass the wires through the center section and ii) it gets a >>>little more distance between the antenna cables and the wing >>>strobe head cables. >>> >>>Any good reason why I shouldn't mount them forward of the >>>center section ? >>> >>>__g__ >>> >>>========================================================== >>>Gerry Filby gerf@gerf.com >>>---------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:01 PM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" Bob, I think the reason he wanted to leave a reserve in each tank is in case the fuel pump in the opposite tank quit and he was therefore denied access to the fuel in that tank he would have the reserve fuel in the 'good' tank. Marty -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of OldBob Siegfried Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried Good Morning Frank, I've been away for a few days and am just catching up on my E-mail so I have not yet digested this thread. However, the following statement piques my curiosity. "Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit more...:)" Would you mean by this statement that you do not want to run a tank dry or that you feel it is actually dangerous to do so? May I ask what sort of an engine is being fed and why you feel the need for it to never be allowed to run dry? Many light aircraft, both certified and experimental, have multiple fuel tanks. Some Bonanzas have six separate fuel tanks. If a half hours worth of fuel is to be considered unusable in each tank, a lot of payload and range is being lost. The vast majority of commonly used light plane engines are driving a solidly connected propellor that will windmill quite well following a loss of fuel flow. I understand that some of the experimental airplanes do have propellors that will declutch or otherwise not drive the engine if power is lost, but that is not true of most. Running a fuel tank dry is a very viable fuel management operation if it is done correctly. Any more information or thoughts you would care to mention? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A Downers Grove, IL LL22 --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Absolutely correct Brian, > > That is the one downside I came up with too. > Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each > tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each > tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit > more...:) > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > --> > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis) wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George > > (Corvallis)" > > > > On my electric only system I simply switch pumps > to switch tanks...No > > selector valve...Just a non return valve in each > line joining to a tee > > then up to the standards vans selector that has > been plumbed to act as > > an on-off valve. > > My only concern with that would be that a pump > failure could render > 1/2 your fuel unavailable. Several aircraft have > been lost on long > over-water flights when electric transfer pumps have > failed thus > rendering necessary fuel unavailable. Something to > think about. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline > Way > brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 > (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny > of petty things . . . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:57 PM PST US From: "Peter Braswell" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses Gang, I've got a problem with my Whelen strobe system blowing a 10 amp fuse. I'm using a 10 amp mini-blade fuse which is blowing intermittently. The kit manufacturer as per the instructions, recommends a 10 amp fuse, but of course they allude to a 10 amp aircraft style reset-able fuse. I can seem to get the fuse to blow fairly regularly if I turn the strobes on and off in quick succession. The fuse will blow less reliably if I turn the strobes on prior to takeoff and just leave them on. My questions are these: Would there be any difference in a 10 amp blade fuse vs. the mechanical breaker style fuse as prescribed by the manufacturer? And the other question is is there such thing as a slow-blow mini blade style fuse and could this possibly make a difference? And finally perhaps there is something more insidious at work here? TIA, Peter _______________________________________ Peter J. Braswell 804.934.0300 Office 804.690.5896 Mobile _______________________________________ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" You got it...Now did I religiously adhere to that rule when arriving home from a long flight....well once or twice in 400 hours would have been a bad time to loose a pump....:) Tested high cruise power today (full rich) on a single pump and it still makes almost full (i.e return valve relief) pressure...I'm pretty confident the pumps are adequately sized. Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marty Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 3:16 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Marty" --> Bob, I think the reason he wanted to leave a reserve in each tank is in case the fuel pump in the opposite tank quit and he was therefore denied access to the fuel in that tank he would have the reserve fuel in the 'good' tank. Marty -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of OldBob Siegfried Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried Good Morning Frank, I've been away for a few days and am just catching up on my E-mail so I have not yet digested this thread. However, the following statement piques my curiosity. "Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands that might be a bit more...:)" Would you mean by this statement that you do not want to run a tank dry or that you feel it is actually dangerous to do so? May I ask what sort of an engine is being fed and why you feel the need for it to never be allowed to run dry? Many light aircraft, both certified and experimental, have multiple fuel tanks. Some Bonanzas have six separate fuel tanks. If a half hours worth of fuel is to be considered unusable in each tank, a lot of payload and range is being lost. The vast majority of commonly used light plane engines are driving a solidly connected propellor that will windmill quite well following a loss of fuel flow. I understand that some of the experimental airplanes do have propellors that will declutch or otherwise not drive the engine if power is lost, but that is not true of most. Running a fuel tank dry is a very viable fuel management operation if it is done correctly. Any more information or thoughts you would care to mention? Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A Downers Grove, IL LL22 --- "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George (Corvallis)" > > Absolutely correct Brian, > > That is the one downside I came up with too. > Basically you have to allow a small reserve in each tank, For normal > flying that means 0.5 hours in each tank...For out in the badlands > that might be a bit > more...:) > > Frank > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] > On Behalf Of Brian Lloyd > Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 12:10 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es) > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Brian Lloyd > > --> > > > On Sep 10, 2006, at 7:39 PM, Hinde, Frank George > (Corvallis) wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, > Frank George > > (Corvallis)" > > > > On my electric only system I simply switch pumps > to switch tanks...No > > selector valve...Just a non return valve in each > line joining to a tee > > then up to the standards vans selector that has > been plumbed to act as > > an on-off valve. > > My only concern with that would be that a pump failure could render > 1/2 your fuel unavailable. Several aircraft have been lost on long > over-water flights when electric transfer pumps have failed thus > rendering necessary fuel unavailable. Something to think about. > > Brian Lloyd 361 Catterline > Way > brian HYPHEN av AT lloyd DOT com Folsom, CA 95630 > +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 > (fax) > > I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . > . > - Antoine de Saint-Exupry > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > >