---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/21/06: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:25 AM - Re: Transponder (Dave) 2. 05:26 AM - Re: tuning static port? (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Garmin Stack (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) 4. 06:03 AM - Re: Transponder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 06:27 AM - Re: Bob, no laptops in OBAMs? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:30 AM - Re: kx 155 remote com and nav (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 07:41 AM - Looking for a switch (Alan K. Adamson) 8. 08:01 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (OldBob Siegfried) 9. 08:18 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Alan K. Adamson) 10. 08:22 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Dave N6030X) 11. 08:52 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Glaeser, Dennis A) 12. 09:11 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Jim Baker) 13. 09:35 AM - Odd advertisement.... (Jim Baker) 14. 10:22 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Brian Meyette) 15. 10:49 AM - Re: Looking for a switch (Brian Meyette) 16. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Looking for a switch (Dave N6030X) 17. 12:16 PM - Re: Looking for a switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 12:16 PM - Re: kx 155 remote com and nav (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 12:16 PM - Re: Bob, no laptops in OBAMs? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 12:16 PM - Re: Transponder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 12:16 PM - Re: kx 155 remote com and nav (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 22. 12:16 PM - Alternator drive stand is coming home . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 23. 02:56 PM - Re: Looking for a switch (Alan K. Adamson) 24. 05:48 PM - strobe wiring (Tim Juhl) 25. 06:32 PM - Re: strobe wiring (Bob C.) 26. 06:58 PM - Mogas versus 100LL () 27. 07:19 PM - Re: Looking for a switch (John McMahon) 28. 07:19 PM - Re: Looking for a switch (John McMahon) 29. 08:24 PM - Re: Mogas versus 100LL () 30. 09:10 PM - Re: Mogas versus 100LL (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 31. 09:18 PM - Re: Can someone share experience tuning static port? (PWilson) 32. 11:07 PM - Re: Mogas versus 100LL (Ed Holyoke) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:54 AM PST US From: Dave Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin the AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:59 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: tuning static port? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/06 3:04:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, frank.hinde@hp.com writes: > Why?...Is it certified?.....Turbocharged? High CR?...If you can get your > CHT's under 350F in normal cruise and a CR of 8.5:1 or lower I can't see > it would require 100LL? Why is correct ... They do make 93 & 94 octane MoGas and that works well in the HC range. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:45 AM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin Stack --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/06 12:21:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sam.marlow@adelphia.net writes: > Can someone with a Garmin stack give me an idea on how much space I need > to allow between units, 340, 430, sl30 ect? I'm thinging maybe the racks > can go metel to metal. > Thanks, > Sam Marlow > RV10 Avionics ======================== Sam: Nothing is metel to metal, as long as trays are used; you can stack as close as the trays will allow. For cooling the 340 has a fitting for the cooling fan hose to connect to. I suspect the other Garmin units do also. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:44 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:24 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave > >My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin the >AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder. Thank you for jumping in here Dave! It's been a long time since I've built a T2000/AK350 harness so when I went to the instruction manual last night I just searched the .pdf for "strobe" and the program jumped to page 24 where I read: ------------------ "The Altitude Reporter AK-350 is remote mounted equipment that is fully automatic in operation. The companion ATC transponder normally controls the operation of hte Altitude Reporter by automatically enabling or disabling its operation. This is done by pulling-up to logic LOW (to enable) or pulling-down to logic HIGH (to disable) the STROBE (pin 6) line of the Altitude Reporter." ------------------ Hmmm . . . NORMALLY in electro-speak, one pulls a line DOWN for logic LO and pulls UP for logic HI. I stumbled over the words in the paragraph and then recalled that in some interface wiring, inverting buffers are used between internal electronics and outside world wiring. Outside the box, logic LO is in fact a higher voltage than logic HI which is ground. So, I sailed around what appeared to be a rational condition. Now, as Dave has suggested, the WIRING DIAGRAMS earlier in the manual are quite specific for treatment of the STROBE line when the companion transponder doesn't need it: the line is firmly attached to ground. I do recall now that when I was selling the T2000 MicroAir and associated harness to mate with the AK350, the pink wire in the harness was paired with the ground wire to the transponder. It's always helpful to have more than one head pondering meanings to at least raise valid questions if not point out blatant errors. Had I reached past the search engine and reviewed the wiring diagrams, the error of my earlier understanding would have been obvious. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a micro-example of a good critical design review. Understanding of words, and ordinary errors can be impediments to progress. Dave gets the "Atta Boy" nod for the day. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:06 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob, no laptops in OBAMs? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:21 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >Is The Burning Battery Problem Solved? > > >Never Fear... PRBA Is On The Case > > >The Portable Rechargeable Battery Association, or PRBA -- did you even >know there was such an organization? -- says all the problems with burning >batteries of late... in their words... most likely relates to aircraft >charging systems. Except that batteries have caught fire sitting on tables at electronic products expos. I've heard of one case (but haven't located a learned narrative) of a computer "burning" in the overhead compartment of a passenger transport aircraft. Now, this might have been another kind of failure that caused the battery to supply energy to smoke other components in the computer. Given that the world's attention is focused on battery failures, every instance of smoke from a computer is likely to be attributed to "battery failure" . . . >They describe the risk of using batteries -- even those recalled but not >yet returned -- is low, and can be further mitigated by either using the >electronic device on battery power alone, or plugging the device into the >aircraft power system without the battery installed. Correct. Documented catastrophic failures of batteries I've read said the batteries were on-charge at the time. >Apparently, PRBA told the FAA about the danger of charging batteries >inflight using an aircraft's electrical system almost 10 years ago. In a >1997 letter sent to the airlines and the FAA, the association highlighted >the need for stable voltage and an instantaneous cut-off system in the >event of an over-heat or over-charge condition. This pre-supposes that the aircraft energy source for battery charging (typically 19v DC) is somehow different than the AC Mains charging source . . . >Most electronic equipment with rechargeable batteries already employ a >cut-off system, but they might not work if the user replaces the original >battery with one not supplied by the manufacturer... so onboard electrical >systems should have a redundant cut-off capability. They don't. Not sure what this would be. The AC Mains power supplies for laptops are little switchmode power supplies that produce some lower level DC, typically 16-20 volts at a couple of amps. The wires comiing out of the power supplies on every computer I've owned was a simple (+) and (-) DC power . . . no third wire to exchange any sort or intelligence between computer mounted battery and the external power supply. It's true that most if not all new products are fitted with "smart batteries" . . . they have a microcontroller in the battery to track incoming and outgoing power and convert the data to state of charge information for the computer's on-board power supply and charging circuits. Hence one will observe that battery packs for their modern portables have multi-pin conntectors for the purpose of exchanging both DC power and intelligence about battery management. >PRBA stresses that even if a battery does catch fire, UK Civil Aviation >Authority testing has conclusively proven that standard aviation fire >extinquishers can douse the flames. That's a comfort. Does anyone carry a "standard aviation fire extinguisher" in their airplane? The risks are quite low. The infamous failed batteries are of a unique Li-Ion technology particularly vulnerable to the failure mode being examined. I'm working with Concorde and others to evaluate the potential future of Li-Ion batteries in aircraft. I've proposed a battery test program (in my van with a 24/7 DAS recording temperature, input/output current and voltage) to see how hard it is to 'beat up' a small array of Li-Ion cells. In the mean time, I'll suggest that use of a lap-top aboard passenger transport aircraft offers a unique hazard: When the passenger in front of you reclines the seat, you're in danger of injury to the diaphragm if not asphyxiation by crushing. My lap-tops stay in the overhead and I do my writing with a theme-book and pencil. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: kx 155 remote com and nav --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:08 PM 9/20/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary G Brock" > >I am using the approach system fast stack in my rv9a. I have a kx 155 and >like to know how to wire the remote nav and com leads to my yoke that has a >left and right buttom. I have all the wiring from the yoke wired to a >terminal block. Does the leads have to have power to them. The remote will >alllow me to flip/flop the nav and com from the yoke. New to the list. The wiring diagrams for your radios will define how remote switches are configured. They're generally a momentary grounding signal (push- button) used to toggle the frequency in use. The MicroAir 760VHF would step through a memory array of about 10 frequencies in response to momentary closures of the push button. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:37 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 positions on a fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the configuration to support the down position to be off, the middle to be low boost on, and the top position to be high boost on, with a lockout between low and high boost. I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find what I need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've described. I had originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I only needed high boost for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, it now has come to my attention that High boost needs to be switchable in the event of engine driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be momentary. The reason I can't use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown the engine. Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that exist, even a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Alan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:01:03 AM PST US From: OldBob Siegfried Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried Good Morning Alan, Once again, I am probably venturing where my knowledge is insufficient, but here goes any way! What engine are you running? We often have high and low boost pump positions on our fuel injected Continental engines. It is true that high boost will kill an engine being operated at low power, but if the throttle is wide open and the RPM good and high, high boost may not even be noticed! The fuel pressures are not additive. The boost pump only puts out a bit more pressure than the engine pump does at high power. In some cases, it is even a bit less, though still adequate to operate the engine at full power in the case of an engine driven pump failure. If you are operating at normal cruise powers and the high boost is selected, the engine may get a bit rough, but the power loss will be minimal and the roughness will get your attention in plenty of time to take corrective action. Personally, on the Continental fuel injection system, I see no problem with nonlocking switches for the boost pump. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Stearman N3977A Downers Grove, IL LL22 --- "Alan K. Adamson" wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. > Adamson" > > I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to > control 2 positions on a > fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the > configuration to support > the down position to be off, the middle to be low > boost on, and the top > position to be high boost on, with a lockout between > low and high boost. > > I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't > been able to find what I > need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've > described. I had > originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I > only needed high boost > for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, > it now has come to my > attention that High boost needs to be switchable in > the event of engine > driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be > momentary. The reason I can't > use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost > is normally switched on > at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to > high boost, you'd drown > the engine. > > Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of > switches that exist, even > a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg > work would be helpful. > > Thanks in advance, > Alan > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:27 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" In doing some more research, it looks like EATON may have what I need... Anyone know of a EATON reseller? They make the MilSpec version and a regular version. The Milspec is an MS27408-4M - the M is the designator for the right type of lockout. Or the regular version looks like an 8537k14m. As a reference, here are their switches. http://aerospace.eaton.com/pdfs/power/Switch_Catalog_With_Cover.pdf If anyone has any further info, it would be helpful. Thanks, Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" --> I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 positions on a fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the configuration to support the down position to be off, the middle to be low boost on, and the top position to be high boost on, with a lockout between low and high boost. I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find what I need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've described. I had originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I only needed high boost for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, it now has come to my attention that High boost needs to be switchable in the event of engine driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be momentary. The reason I can't use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown the engine. Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that exist, even a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Alan ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:44 AM PST US From: Dave N6030X Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X How about a 5 position rotary that you have to "accidentally" twist past 2 unused positions to get to high? Dave At 09:40 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" > > >I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 positions on a >fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the configuration to support >the down position to be off, the middle to be low boost on, and the top >position to be high boost on, with a lockout between low and high boost. > >I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find what I >need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've described. I had >originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I only needed high boost >for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, it now has come to my >attention that High boost needs to be switchable in the event of engine >driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be momentary. The reason I can't >use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on >at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown >the engine. > >Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that exist, even >a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work would be helpful. > >Thanks in advance, >Alan > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:34 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for a switch From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" The ON-ON-ON type of switch is the toughest to get without $pecial order - except for the S-10 from B&C which doesn't have locking. The most reasonably priced (~$12) locking switches I've found are the NKK S series - available from Digikey and Mouser. It's not what you want, but if you can live with an On-Off-On locking switch (S3AL), Digikey has some in stock: http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=162095&Row 136164&Site=US NKK Datasheet: http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/NKK%20Switches/Web%20Data/SSeriesToggles MedCap.pdf I've looked into locking switches a fair amount, and suspect to get exactly what you want will probably cost north of $40 (probably over 50), and require a few months on a special order. The good news is that you'd be able to order locking to do what I think you want (no lock from Off to On - lock from On to Hi). Dennis Glaeser RV7A - Finishing kit ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:50 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried > Personally, on the Continental > fuel injection system, I see no problem with > nonlocking switches for the boost pump. I know my Bellanca Viking doesn't have a locking switch and, personally, wouldn't want one. Momentary inattention, and then the sputter of fuel exhaustion, prompts a quick stab at the low boost switch after switching tanks. Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:33 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Odd advertisement.... X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" An e-mail advertisement received from Acft Spruce..... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "First-Class Travel for Your Plane" If youre going to fly - look good doing it! Now, finally available for your personal plane - the same specialty paint used by major airlines, the Patriot Missile project, the Space Shuttle Challenger project, the RAM Missile, and the Stealth Bomber. Unsurpassed beauty, protection and performance are available for your plane. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Let's see.....anyone care what paint is used on a missle and just how long will one have to admire it? The Challenger shuttle? Duh! And I wonder just how much of that paint was used on the B-2...either you can't get the exterior "paint" or it's used internally where you can't see it. Copy-writers....gotta wonder sometimes..... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:54 AM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" I did a lot of looking at switches when I was doing my wiring layout (see prev emails about Z-19). I found a good selection of Honeywell and Eaton switches at Allied. http://alliedelec.com I saved the PDF catalogs for both brands & will send them to you -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:18 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" In doing some more research, it looks like EATON may have what I need... Anyone know of a EATON reseller? They make the MilSpec version and a regular version. The Milspec is an MS27408-4M - the M is the designator for the right type of lockout. Or the regular version looks like an 8537k14m. As a reference, here are their switches. http://aerospace.eaton.com/pdfs/power/Switch_Catalog_With_Cover.pdf If anyone has any further info, it would be helpful. Thanks, Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" --> I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 positions on a fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the configuration to support the down position to be off, the middle to be low boost on, and the top position to be high boost on, with a lockout between low and high boost. I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find what I need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've described. I had originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I only needed high boost for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, it now has come to my attention that High boost needs to be switchable in the event of engine driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be momentary. The reason I can't use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown the engine. Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that exist, even a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Alan -- -- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:46 AM PST US From: "Brian Meyette" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" You might also consider a separate switch for the high boost -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 10:40 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 positions on a fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the configuration to support the down position to be off, the middle to be low boost on, and the top position to be high boost on, with a lockout between low and high boost. I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find what I need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've described. I had originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I only needed high boost for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, it now has come to my attention that High boost needs to be switchable in the event of engine driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be momentary. The reason I can't use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown the engine. Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that exist, even a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work would be helpful. Thanks in advance, Alan -- -- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:28 AM PST US From: Dave N6030X Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X Whenever I find myself looking for some kind of rare device, or putting something into the aircraft that nobody else seems to be putting in theirs, or looking for a very pricey component, I stop and ask myself, is this really necessary, or have I just designed something that is totally overkill? Is there a reason why nobody else is doing it this way? Am I really this far on the leading edge or have I made a booboo? Dave Morris At 10:50 AM 9/21/2006, you wrote: >The ON-ON-ON type of switch is the toughest to get without $pecial >order - except for the S-10 from B&C which doesn't have locking. > >The most reasonably priced (~$12) locking switches I've found are >the NKK S series - available from Digikey and Mouser. > >It's not what you want, but if you can live with an On-Off-On >locking switch (S3AL), Digikey has some in stock: >http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?Ref=162095&Row=136164&Site=US > > >NKK Datasheet: >http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/NKK%20Switches/Web%20Data/SSeriesTogglesMedCap.pdf > > >I've looked into locking switches a fair amount, and suspect to get >exactly what you want will probably cost north of $40 (probably over >50), and require a few months on a special order. The good news is >that you'd be able to order locking to do what I think you want (no >lock from Off to On - lock from On to Hi). > >Dennis Glaeser >RV7A - Finishing kit > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Alan, The functionality you're asking for is provided by a Microswitch 2TL1-10N or 2TL-10L (either locking option will work, you just need to re-wire). These translate to MS27408-4N and MS27408-4L. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/tl_series.pdf Having said that, I agree with Bob's suggestion that you investigate the real risks for inadvertent positioning of the boost pump switch. I've flown a number of aircraft with OFF-LO-HI boost switches . . . none of them offered any sort of "lockout" provisions. These switches will not be easy to find . . . they're not a common catalog item. Bob . . . >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried > > >Good Morning Alan, > >Once again, I am probably venturing where my knowledge >is insufficient, but here goes any way! > >What engine are you running? > >We often have high and low boost pump positions on our >fuel injected Continental engines. It is true that >high boost will kill an engine being operated at low >power, but if the throttle is wide open and the RPM >good and high, high boost may not even be noticed! > >The fuel pressures are not additive. The boost pump >only puts out a bit more pressure than the engine pump >does at high power. In some cases, it is even a bit >less, though still adequate to operate the engine at >full power in the case of an engine driven pump >failure. If you are operating at normal cruise powers >and the high boost is selected, the engine may get a >bit rough, but the power loss will be minimal and the >roughness will get your attention in plenty of time to >take corrective action. Personally, on the Continental >fuel injection system, I see no problem with >nonlocking switches for the boost pump. > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob >AKA >Bob Siegfried >Stearman N3977A >Downers Grove, IL >LL22 > >--- "Alan K. Adamson" wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. > > Adamson" > > > > I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to > > control 2 positions on a > > fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the > > configuration to support > > the down position to be off, the middle to be low > > boost on, and the top > > position to be high boost on, with a lockout between > > low and high boost. > > > > I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't > > been able to find what I > > need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've > > described. I had > > originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought I > > only needed high boost > > for prime. However, in talking with other pilots, > > it now has come to my > > attention that High boost needs to be switchable in > > the event of engine > > driven fuel pump failure and can't simply be > > momentary. The reason I can't > > use a 3 position without lockout, is that low boost > > is normally switched on > > at or above 10K and if you accidentally switched to > > high boost, you'd drown > > the engine. > > > > Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of > > switches that exist, even > > a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg > > work would be helpful. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > Web Forums! > > > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: kx 155 remote com and nav --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:08 PM 9/20/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary G Brock" > >I am using the approach system fast stack in my rv9a. I have a kx 155 and >like to know how to wire the remote nav and com leads to my yoke that has a >left and right buttom. I have all the wiring from the yoke wired to a >terminal block. Does the leads have to have power to them. The remote will >alllow me to flip/flop the nav and com from the yoke. New to the list. >Thanks Gary I see that my earlier reply was incomplete. When you're dealing with pre-fab harnesses, what you see is what you get. The instructions for the Approach System j-box should tell you if they bring remote switch options out to a connector dedicated to that purpose. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Bob, no laptops in OBAMs? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 01:21 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: > >Is The Burning Battery Problem Solved? > > >Never Fear... PRBA Is On The Case > > >The Portable Rechargeable Battery Association, or PRBA -- did you even >know there was such an organization? -- says all the problems with burning >batteries of late... in their words... most likely relates to aircraft >charging systems. Except that batteries have caught fire sitting on tables at electronic products expos. I've heard of one case (but haven't located a learned narrative) of a computer "burning" in the overhead compartment of a passenger transport aircraft. Now, this might have been another kind of failure that caused the battery to supply energy to smoke other components in the computer. Given that the world's attention is focused on battery failures, every instance of smoke from a computer is likely to be attributed to "battery failure" . . . >They describe the risk of using batteries -- even those recalled but not >yet returned -- is low, and can be further mitigated by either using the >electronic device on battery power alone, or plugging the device into the >aircraft power system without the battery installed. Correct. Documented catastrophic failures of batteries I've read said the batteries were on-charge at the time. >Apparently, PRBA told the FAA about the danger of charging batteries >inflight using an aircraft's electrical system almost 10 years ago. In a >1997 letter sent to the airlines and the FAA, the association highlighted >the need for stable voltage and an instantaneous cut-off system in the >event of an over-heat or over-charge condition. This pre-supposes that the aircraft energy source for battery charging (typically 19v DC) is somehow different than the AC Mains charging source . . . >Most electronic equipment with rechargeable batteries already employ a >cut-off system, but they might not work if the user replaces the original >battery with one not supplied by the manufacturer... so onboard electrical >systems should have a redundant cut-off capability. They don't. Not sure what this would be. The AC Mains power supplies for laptops are little switchmode power supplies that produce some lower level DC, typically 16-20 volts at a couple of amps. The wires comiing out of the power supplies on every computer I've owned was a simple (+) and (-) DC power . . . no third wire to exchange any sort or intelligence between computer mounted battery and the external power supply. It's true that most if not all new products are fitted with "smart batteries" . . . they have a microcontroller in the battery to track incoming and outgoing power and convert the data to state of charge information for the computer's on-board power supply and charging circuits. Hence one will observe that battery packs for their modern portables have multi-pin conntectors for the purpose of exchanging both DC power and intelligence about battery management. >PRBA stresses that even if a battery does catch fire, UK Civil Aviation >Authority testing has conclusively proven that standard aviation fire >extinquishers can douse the flames. That's a comfort. Does anyone carry a "standard aviation fire extinguisher" in their airplane? The risks are quite low. The infamous failed batteries are of a unique Li-Ion technology particularly vulnerable to the failure mode being examined. I'm working with Concorde and others to evaluate the potential future of Li-Ion batteries in aircraft. I've proposed a battery test program (in my van with a 24/7 DAS recording temperature, input/output current and voltage) to see how hard it is to 'beat up' a small array of Li-Ion cells. In the mean time, I'll suggest that use of a lap-top aboard passenger transport aircraft offers a unique hazard: When the passenger in front of you reclines the seat, you're in danger of injury to the diaphragm if not asphyxiation by crushing. My lap-tops stay in the overhead and I do my writing with a theme-book and pencil. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Transponder --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:24 AM 9/21/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave > >My AK350 would not provide data to my GTX330 until I grounded the pin the >AK350 instructions say to ground for a non-strobed transponder. Thank you for jumping in here Dave! It's been a long time since I've built a T2000/AK350 harness so when I went to the instruction manual last night I just searched the .pdf for "strobe" and the program jumped to page 24 where I read: ------------------ "The Altitude Reporter AK-350 is remote mounted equipment that is fully automatic in operation. The companion ATC transponder normally controls the operation of hte Altitude Reporter by automatically enabling or disabling its operation. This is done by pulling-up to logic LOW (to enable) or pulling-down to logic HIGH (to disable) the STROBE (pin 6) line of the Altitude Reporter." ------------------ Hmmm . . . NORMALLY in electro-speak, one pulls a line DOWN for logic LO and pulls UP for logic HI. I stumbled over the words in the paragraph and then recalled that in some interface wiring, inverting buffers are used between internal electronics and outside world wiring. Outside the box, logic LO is in fact a higher voltage than logic HI which is ground. So, I sailed around what appeared to be a rational condition. Now, as Dave has suggested, the WIRING DIAGRAMS earlier in the manual are quite specific for treatment of the STROBE line when the companion transponder doesn't need it: the line is firmly attached to ground. I do recall now that when I was selling the T2000 MicroAir and associated harness to mate with the AK350, the pink wire in the harness was paired with the ground wire to the transponder. It's always helpful to have more than one head pondering meanings to at least raise valid questions if not point out blatant errors. Had I reached past the search engine and reviewed the wiring diagrams, the error of my earlier understanding would have been obvious. This, ladies and gentlemen, is a micro-example of a good critical design review. Understanding of words, and ordinary errors can be impediments to progress. Dave gets the "Atta Boy" nod for the day. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: kx 155 remote com and nav --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 11:08 PM 9/20/2006 -0400, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Gary G Brock" > >I am using the approach system fast stack in my rv9a. I have a kx 155 and >like to know how to wire the remote nav and com leads to my yoke that has a >left and right buttom. I have all the wiring from the yoke wired to a >terminal block. Does the leads have to have power to them. The remote will >alllow me to flip/flop the nav and com from the yoke. New to the list. The wiring diagrams for your radios will define how remote switches are configured. They're generally a momentary grounding signal (push- button) used to toggle the frequency in use. The MicroAir 760VHF would step through a memory array of about 10 frequencies in response to momentary closures of the push button. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:16:41 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator drive stand is coming home . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Unless the present owner determines that the motor supplied on the drive stand cannot be wired for 208-3ph power, he'll be loading the ol' beast on a trailer to drop off in my driveway this coming weekend. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:50 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. Adamson" Thanks Bob, Glad we think alike... I may have described it slightly wrong, but you were in the ball park. I'd need either a 2TL1-10M or 2TL1-10P which translate to the MS27408-4M or -4P. I actually found one and they are pretty pricy at $65 ea!. However, before I go there, I'm gonna just try an ON-ON-ON from B&C and see if I can live with "brain power" lockout. If I have a problem, I'll get the "expensive" switch. As to the "why am I doing this this way" question. Most wire two switches, but in asking around, I could find no other reason for High Boost than prime, so I was going to go with the ON-ON-(ON). This is on a Cont IO-550 and some suggest that going to high boost on accident will flood out the engine. But then again, other suggest it wont. Either way, I went with one switch position instead of two thinking I was smarter than most and saving the panel space. Perhaps, that bit me in the bottom.... Oh, well, thanks all for the links, help and suggestions. I believe I've got a handle on this now. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 3:14 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> Alan, The functionality you're asking for is provided by a Microswitch 2TL1-10N or 2TL-10L (either locking option will work, you just need to re-wire). These translate to MS27408-4N and MS27408-4L. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Switches/tl_series.pdf Having said that, I agree with Bob's suggestion that you investigate the real risks for inadvertent positioning of the boost pump switch. I've flown a number of aircraft with OFF-LO-HI boost switches . . . none of them offered any sort of "lockout" provisions. These switches will not be easy to find . . . they're not a common catalog item. Bob . . . >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: OldBob Siegfried > > >Good Morning Alan, > >Once again, I am probably venturing where my knowledge is insufficient, >but here goes any way! > >What engine are you running? > >We often have high and low boost pump positions on our fuel injected >Continental engines. It is true that high boost will kill an engine >being operated at low power, but if the throttle is wide open and the >RPM good and high, high boost may not even be noticed! > >The fuel pressures are not additive. The boost pump only puts out a bit >more pressure than the engine pump does at high power. In some cases, >it is even a bit less, though still adequate to operate the engine at >full power in the case of an engine driven pump failure. If you are >operating at normal cruise powers and the high boost is selected, the >engine may get a bit rough, but the power loss will be minimal and the >roughness will get your attention in plenty of time to take corrective >action. Personally, on the Continental fuel injection system, I see no >problem with nonlocking switches for the boost pump. > >Happy Skies, > >Old Bob >AKA >Bob Siegfried >Stearman N3977A >Downers Grove, IL >LL22 > >--- "Alan K. Adamson" wrote: > > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Alan K. > > Adamson" > > > > I'm looking for a locking type switch to be used to control 2 > > positions on a fuel pump (low boost and high boost). I need the > > configuration to support the down position to be off, the middle to > > be low boost on, and the top position to be high boost on, with a > > lockout between low and high boost. > > > > I've done a bit of searching, but so far, haven't been able to find > > what I need. Hoping someone here might have seen what I've > > described. I had originally thot of using an S700-2-50 as I thought > > I only needed high boost for prime. However, in talking with other > > pilots, it now has come to my attention that High boost needs to be > > switchable in the event of engine driven fuel pump failure and can't > > simply be momentary. The reason I can't use a 3 position without > > lockout, is that low boost is normally switched on at or above 10K > > and if you accidentally switched to high boost, you'd drown the > > engine. > > > > Any help would be appreciated.... In the morass of switches that > > exist, even a good source of a manufacturer and I'll do the leg work > > would be helpful. > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Alan > > > > > > > > > > > > browse > > Subscriptions page, > > FAQ, > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > Web Forums! > > > > > > Admin. > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:10 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: strobe wiring From: "Tim Juhl" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" I'm mounting the powerpacks for wingtip strobes in the wingtips of my Zodiac XL. I plan to use shielded wire (grounded at one end.) My question is whether there is any problem bundling the wires with wires from a capacitance type fuel sender (0-5v). I wonder if there is any possibility of generating fluctuations in needle readings when the strobes are operating. Tim Do not archive -------- DO NOT ARCHIVE ______________ CFII Champ L16A flying Zodiac XL - Working on Flaps and Ailerons Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63131#63131 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:23 PM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: strobe wiring Tim, I wouldn't think so, I'm doing the same thing but don't have the capacitance senders . . . the whole idea of mounting in the wingtips it to avoid interference . . . there is just 12V running to the power packs?! Bob in SE Iowa RV-8 Finishing On 9/21/06, Tim Juhl wrote: > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tim Juhl" > > I'm mounting the powerpacks for wingtip strobes in the wingtips of my > Zodiac XL. I plan to use shielded wire (grounded at one end.) My question > is whether there is any problem bundling the wires with wires from a > capacitance type fuel sender (0-5v). I wonder if there is any possibility > of generating fluctuations in needle readings when the strobes are > operating. > > Tim > > Do not archive > > -------- > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ______________ > CFII > Champ L16A flying > Zodiac XL - Working on Flaps and Ailerons > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63131#63131 > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:34 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mogas versus 100LL --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: 9/21/2006 Hello Fellow Builders, The aeroelectric list digest for 9/20/2006 contained several postings on the subject of using mogas versus 100 LL. Most of these messages just focused on the effect the two different fuels would have on the engine performance. I suggest that builders keep in mind the possible effects, some very adverse, that mogas and unknown chemicals mixed into mogas, not just ethanol, may have on their aircraft's entire fuel system. Seals, hoses, tanks and elastomers may suffer. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:07 PM PST US From: "John McMahon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch Or maybe a 1/2" length of a small brass hinge above the switch that must be lifted to allow you to select the Hi boost position.... Not elecgant but not $65 either..... My .02 > > If anyone has any further info, it would be helpful. > > Thanks, > Alan > > -- John McMahon Lancair Super ES, N9637M ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:28 PM PST US From: "John McMahon" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Looking for a switch Neither is my spelling! On 9/21/06, John McMahon wrote: > > Or maybe a 1/2" length of a small brass hinge above the switch that must > be lifted to allow you to select the Hi boost position.... Not elegant but > not $65 either..... My .02 > > > > > > If anyone has any further info, it would be helpful. > > > > Thanks, > > Alan > > > > > > > > > -- > John McMahon > Lancair Super ES, N9637M -- John McMahon Lancair Super ES, N9637M ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mogas versus 100LL From: --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Octane rating is not the only thing one needs to be concerned with when it comes to fuel. I don't know the technocrat term for it, but the speed at which the fuel burns is a definite concern. On huge displacement engines turning low RPMs, if you were to use a racing fuel designed for high RPM engines of the same octane you would most like run into problems. From what the locals at the airport say, high octane mogas should not be used in a O-540s because it burns too fast, and since the cylinders are the same as a O-360?? On the other hand, using 100LL that is a slow burning fuel used in a 73CC 22HP (well over 11K) Yamaha YZ 80 engine that is in my self retrieving balloon kills performance and probably raises EGT to disheartening levels. On Rotax 4 strokes you can use 100LL, but it does raise the EGTs because it burns slower than high octane mogas, and some of that burn makes its way into the exhaust. A old timer said on old auto engines that didn't use aluminium pistons, used to loosen the distributor, and run up the engine and begin retarding the ignition, he said he would get the exhaust glowing, hence carbon would be burned off. Slow burning fuel does the same in a engine designed for fast burning fuel. Using a fast burning fuel in a engine designed for a slow burning fuel can cause detonation. Detonation raises temperatures, let it go and God forbid pre-ignition begins to occur. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:07 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Mogas versus 100LL In a message dated 09/21/2006 9:02:17 PM Central Daylight Time, bakerocb@cox.net writes: OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge >> Howdy OC- do you subscribe to the RV-list? We usually get punch-drunk on this one at least once a year and if yer looking for knowledge (good bad or whatever) on this issue, those archives are REALLY full of it! 8-) Most respectfully and seriously- Mark Phillips- on the "uses both" side of the issue and do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:46 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Can someone share experience tuning static port? --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: PWilson My fluids book uses a static probe for wind tunnel testing that has multiple holes. This allows the pitot/static unit to operate with better accuracy at various angles to the wind stream. Like 10 holes. The book also specifies the diameter. No suggestion for o-ring to be accurate. Regards. Paul =============== At 10:22 AM 9/20/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: > >I have a Europa XS Monowheel, it has the static port under the wing, it is >a tube with a closed nylon bullet at the tip, and 2 holes in it a bit aft >of the lead edge of the bullet, 1 vertical and 1 horizontal. > >I heard a while back you can tune this static port by installing a O-Ring, >think start point was an inch or so behind the holes in the bullet?? > >Can someone share experience tuning static port? > >How did you determine when it was correct? > >What distance was neutral point for O-Ring? > >Does moving O-Ring forward from neutral increase static pressure? > >What size O-Ring did you use, did size make much a difference, what was >O-Ring made out of and how did you permanent bond in place? > >Thx. >Ron Parigoris > >(I posted to Europa group, no replies) > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:28 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Mogas versus 100LL --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" I was riding across the Arizona desert on I-10 one night some years back and pulled up alongside a guy riding an old BSA single who's exhaust pipe was glowing red. I pointed and gestured until he pulled over whereupon he told me not to worry - he was just running kerosene in it 'cos it was cheaper. He had a small tank with gas in it that he used for starting and acceleration. I don't know if he messed with the timing to make it run, but run it did. I decided not to try it in my Z1. Pax, Ed Holyoke --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: A old timer said on old auto engines that didn't use aluminium pistons, used to loosen the distributor, and run up the engine and begin retarding the ignition, he said he would get the exhaust glowing, hence carbon would be burned off. Slow burning fuel does the same in a engine designed for fast burning fuel. Using a fast burning fuel in a engine designed for a slow burning fuel can cause detonation. Detonation raises temperatures, let it go and God forbid pre-ignition begins to occur. Ron Parigoris