Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Garmin 396/496 Connections (MikeEasley@aol.com)
2. 04:57 AM - Re:Relays 'G's" skunk stink (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 04:58 AM - Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 07:16 AM - Re: Alternator test lead (Greg Campbell)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Connectors vs. Straight Wire (Jim Baker)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Jim Oke)
7. 09:35 AM - vhf antennas ()
8. 10:10 AM - Re: vhf antennas (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 10:11 AM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 10:28 AM - Re: Connectors vs. Straight Wire (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 10:58 AM - Re: Re: vhf antennas ()
12. 12:19 PM - Strobe Wiring (Jeff Moreau)
13. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Jim Oke)
14. 01:10 PM - Re: Strobe Wiring (LarryMcFarland)
15. 01:38 PM - Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (Eric M. Jones)
16. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (Dave N6030X)
17. 02:55 PM - Pull to low (N395V)
18. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (raymondj)
19. 04:23 PM - Re: Pull to low (Matt Prather)
20. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Dave N6030X)
21. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
22. 07:33 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 07:48 PM - [ Larry Rosen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
24. 08:48 PM - Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review (Larry Rosen)
25. 10:03 PM - Re: [ Larry Rosen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Bob McCallum)
26. 10:12 PM - Re: Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review (Bob McCallum)
27. 11:45 PM - Re: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) (raymondj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Garmin 396/496 Connections |
The power data cable only has mono audio output. You need to wire the mini
phone jack into your audio panel, one of the entertainment inputs. I bought
a 15' extension cable for the audio connection. You can also drive most
autopilots from the 396/496 also. So in my installation I only used the power
and ground wires in the power data cable.
I've contemplated cutting the XM antenna wire at the antenna and making a
short pigtail so I can route wire to the XM antenna location and just plug in
the antenna before flight. Just haven't got up the nerve to cut and splice
the wires yet.
Mike Easley
Colorado Springs
Lancair ES
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Relays 'G's" skunk stink |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:07 AM 10/2/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>I think it is time for someone with a little authority to clear this up.
>My authority is so little that I have hidden it under one of the periods
>in this posting. A prize awaits the one who finds it.
>
>1) Relay mounting. Type 70 Stancor Rodgers White Emerson Tyco. See:
>
>http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/STANCOR/Stancor_Industrial-Control_5760005.pdf
>
>So the manufacturer says, "mount plunger vertical, cap down". I checked
>into the engineering data on this part and of course the corporate
>conglomeratization has destroyed the engineering knowledge that built the
>part. The manufacturer PROMISED they'd get back to me.....It's not DO-160
>bubela. And it's only 122 deg F max operating temp. Etc. etc.
Why would you suppose they would make this recommendation?
Is the engineering knowledge behind the recommendation
so esoteric that we cannot deduce it for ourselves?
> Use the Kilovac EV200 part if you can.
Of course everyone CAN . . . it's a matter of trades.
What is the return on investment for the trade . . .
and is there more than one trade?
<snip>
>"Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less
>obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no
>solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There
>are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight
>lines."
> - R. Buckminster Fuller
Interesting quotation . . . I'm fond of quotations
that offer simple-ideas of easily discovered utility.
How would you propose we use the learned gentleman's
to guide our deliberations?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< You can never learn less, you can only learn more. >
< R. Buckminster Fuller >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:12 PM 10/2/2006 -0500, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:59 AM 10/2/2006 -0500, you wrote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
Anybody have a centrifuge with accelerometer and want to conduct a little
experiment?
Dave Morris
I've done this already . . . but the rationale for mounting
the contactor in any particular orientation has yet to be
supported by the underlying simple-ideas.
Yes, that's what the data sheet says but fails to explain
why. An there's a famous Tyco white paper that makes some
perfectly good measurements from which the authors then
infer but never demonstrate deleterious effects that
are not driven by the same science.
There IS a reason why mounting the contactor under
discussion cap down is a good idea and we've already
hat-danced around it . . . and it's NOT for consideration
of g-forces.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator test lead |
This has already been answered, but to add a little perspective and some
math to the answer...
1) What is the purpose of the resistor in the voltage sense line? To
prevent bad things from happening if the other end of the voltage sense line
(or some point in the middle) accidentally shorts to ground, or in the case
of a alternator field, shorts to positive.
2) What's the "worst case" scenario for the particular application? If you
had a voltage sense lead running to say a battery, and the other end shorts
to ground - it would try and draw hundreds of amps through a tiny sense
wire. If the sense wire is small, it might act like a fusible link and go
poof. (Good!) If it is big wire (you used some spare #10 wire for
"sturdiness"), then it might act like a dandy heater and fire starter.
(Bad!)
3) What's the "cure" ? Add a resistor in line with the voltage test point
that's suitable for the "worst case". So even if you used some spare #8
wire for your voltage sense wire, but - at the battery end - you added a
1000 ohm resistor, then in a 14v system (with the alternator ON), a short
would produce a maximum of 0.014 Amps or 0.196 Watts. Not much of a heater
or a fire starter. (Good!) And at 0.196 Watts, a quarter Watt 1000 ohm
resistor could happily dissipate that heat all day long without getting too
hot.
4) What if it's a 28v system? At 28volts, a 1000 ohm resistor will draw
0.028Amps, and since Watts = Volts * Amps, or Amps^2 * Resistance, a paltry
0.784 Watts. A quarter watt resistor will get extremely hot and may even
fail open. A larger 1/2 Watt resistor will get nasty hot. A 1 Watt
resistor will get toasty warm, but can handle that load all day long
depending on how it's mounted. (The Watt rating is almost always about
surface area and ventilation.)
Arguably, you might prefer the resistor to act as a fusible link in a
situation like that. So a 1/8 Watt resistor might be the resistor of
choice. One good overload and "poof", no more resistor. Of course, no more
voltage sensing either - leading to erroneous conclusions as to the nature
of the problem.
The best way to tell what your resistor will behave like is to short it out
and see how hot it gets. If it's going to be bundled with other wires,
covered with a boot, etc.. it's best to simulate those conditions as well.
5) In the case of a voltage sense wire on an alternator field, you also have
to be concerned about what happens if the voltage sense wire shorts out to
positive. If the sense wire were capable of supplying several amps to the
alternator field, you could get a runaway alternator over voltage. By
adding the resistor, you prevent it from supplying more than a few tenths of
an amp to the field.
6) Doing the math backwards on a 28volt system:
a one Watt resistor of 784 ohms or higher will be fine all day long
a 1/2 Watt resistor of 1,568 ohms or higher will be fine all day long
a 1/4 Watt resistor of 3,136 ohms or higher will be fine all day long...
For a 14 volts system, divide all the Ohms by 4...
a one Watt resistor of 196 ohms will handle 1 Watt all day long (with proper
ventilation)
a 1/2 Watt resistor of 392 ohms will handle 1/2 Watt all day long
a 1/4 Watt resistor of 784 ohms will handle 1/4 Watt all day long
7) Don't fall for the common mistake of trying to "double up" resistors in
parallel to get the "required" 1 Watt rating. If you take two 1000 Ohm 1/2
Watt resistors (more readily available than 1 Watt resistors, plus they come
two to the pack.) and put them in parallel you won't be happy with the
results because...
You've created a 500 ohm "resistor network" (use your ohmmeter and you'll
see)... So on a 28v system it will draw MORE amps and MORE Watts, and each
of your 1/2 resistors will be trying to dissipate 0.784 Watts and not very
happy about it.
So... if you're rooting through the parts bins and all you can find are 1/4
or 1/2 Watt resistors, then use the larger ohm values. Double the
resistance value if necessary. It won't make a difference to your
voltmeter, and if you accidentally short things out - it won't create smoke
& funny smells where you don't want it to.
If all you can find are two 1000 Ohm 1/4 Watt Resistors, I'd be more
inclined to put them in series for an effective resistance of 2000 ohms.
This would dissipate 0.098 Watts in a 14v system, and 0.392 Watts (total) in
a 28v system. The heat dissipated by each resistor would be half that, well
within the limits of a 1/4 Watt resistor.
Bob's probably right - any resistor in the 200 to 2000 ohm range will do,
especially in the 1 Watt size.
I prefer to use resistors in the 1000 to 3000 ohm range in the more common
1/4 or 1/2 Watt sizes.
If you have a 28v System, I'd use the higher resistance values, but you can
do the math.
The really important thing is that you put the resistor close to the
"source",
not at the measuring end of the "sense wire".
It's kind of like a fuse - you want it to protect the entire run of the
wire, not the "end device"
which is your voltmeter.
Greg
Message 5
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| Subject: | Connectors vs. Straight Wire |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
> There ARE wire bails for keeping d-subs together. My favorite for
> cable-to-cable d-subs is remove the jack-screw hardware and use
> tye-wraps to keep them together.
Must be rarer than hens teeth....all I can find is the IDC D-sub
w/bail locks. Did find a bail lock kit...going price was $7 a pop
with one vendor down to $3. Your Ty Wraps look better all the
time.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
I'll take a stab. Mounting "cap down" means that gravity (and a bit of
engine vibration) will separate the main current contacts after the coil
is de-energized should the internal compression spring fail. Mounting
the other way would have the contacts potentially closing due gravity if
the spring failed with potential for all sorts of unhappy results.
Thanks to Bob for the nice internal pictures of this style of contactor.
(I seem to have several of them in use personally).
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
RV-6A & RV-3
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 11:12 PM 10/2/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:59 AM 10/2/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X
> <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
>
> Anybody have a centrifuge with accelerometer and want to conduct a
> little experiment?
>
> Dave Morris
>
> I've done this already . . . but the rationale for mounting
> the contactor in any particular orientation has yet to be
> supported by the underlying simple-ideas.
>
> Yes, that's what the data sheet says but fails to explain
> why. An there's a famous Tyco white paper that makes some
> perfectly good measurements from which the authors then
> infer but never demonstrate deleterious effects that
> are not driven by the same science.
>
> There IS a reason why mounting the contactor under
> discussion cap down is a good idea and we've already
> hat-danced around it . . . and it's NOT for consideration
> of g-forces.
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
Hi ,I'm building an rv10,and I have contradictories informations about how install
the antennas,the counselor and a couple of "masters" say clean the metal from
any paint and install the antenna,but the manufacturer send it with a cork
gasket(one of the best insulation ),to install .
any logical for this.
Thanks.
Hugo
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: vhf antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 12:33 PM 10/3/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>
>Hi ,I'm building an rv10,and I have contradictories informations about how
>install the antennas,the counselor and a couple of "masters" say clean the
>metal from any paint and install the antenna,but the manufacturer send it
>with a cork gasket(one of the best insulation ),to install .
>any logical for this.
>Thanks.
>Hugo
See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
From some earlier posts:
>A while back you had some words of wisdom for a person who'd asked about
>getting enough metal to metal contact for ground plane purposes with his
>comm antenna. You mentioned to him that riveting his doubler plates to the
>skin would provide plenty of contact when paint and other debris was
>squeezed out during the riveting process. I have a little different twist
>on this question. I made doubler plates to go inside the fuselage but don't
>really want to rivet them on. The number of fasteners that hold the
>antennas to the airplane will hold doublers to the skin and I don't see a
>need to rivet the doublers on. This however, could cause trouble. Since
>I've already primed the inside of the aluminum fuselage skin, would like to
>prime the doublers so they don't corrode when water gets between them and
>the fuselage skin and don't want to remove the primer from the skin......I
>fear I will have insufficient connection to get good ground plane action.
>The comm antennas come with a cork gasket that's supposed to go between the
>outside skin and the antenna so that limits ground plane connection on the
>outside skin (presently bare aluminum). Am I gonna have to bite the bullet
>and rivet the doublers to get some connection or ????(the doublers have
>nutplates riveted to them to accept the antenna fasteners). Any words of
>wisdom here? The antennas are the standard store bought COMANT bent whips.
>Thanks.
Welcome to the club. When somebody decides to design a new airplane,
they start with aero and power plant guys. Then come the structures
and processes folks. After awhile the systems folks put in fuel,
hydraulics and flight controls. When the 'airplane' is done, some
guy with radios, cabin entertainment systems, etc is told, "Okay,
you can have whatever space is left over . . . but don't CHANGE
anything."
This approach to an HF antenna installation (without CHANGING
anything) has resulted in a situation where other equipment items
inside the all metal airplane are suffering huge interfering
energies from the HF transmitter. Had the structures and processes
guys been involved since day-one to make the metal serve as both
airplane and antenna, we'd have several $millions$ still in the
corporate pockets instead of blowing that cash on band-aid
fixes to delivered aircraft.
Now, on a much smaller scale, you're presented with the same
kind of problem. The laws of physics are immutable. The primary,
long term, gas-tight connections between your antenna base and
airframe happen right under the head and nut of the fasteners.
If you need a doubler, then it needs to be well bonded
to the airframe . . . and that means rivets or high pressure
joints between ground conductors. If you choose not to
rivet the doubler, you need to clean 2 extra surfaces before
installation. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
If the doubler is riveted, then surfaces between doubler
and skin can be left as-manufactured but it wouldn't hurt
to clean these too. I'd pitch the cork gasket and go for a
thin bead of moisture sealant around outside edge of antenna
base that extrudes out to zero-thickness at time of
installation. PRESSURE and CLEANLINESS around the immediate
circumference of the mounting screws is where it all happens.
>Bob,
>Speaking of the magic (grounding the base) - looking at the
>Antenna_Installation.gif ,
>I have seen toothed lock washers used between the doubler plate and skin.
>This was on a Cessna. The doubler plate was not riveted to the skin (it
>came with with the antenna replacement kit). The lock washer assured better
>el contact (grounding). They used externally toothed lock washers, as per
>attached. Maybe a better idea would be to use the external-internal toothed
>type washers (also attached). Opinions?
We're really slice'n and dice'n mouse hairs here. Obviously
the goal is to get a low ohms connection between the antenna
base and the skin that is as good 10 years from now as it is
the day we bolt it on. This comes down to a few simple-ideas:
(1) pressure high enough to bring two clean surfaces into intimate
gas tight contact with each other and (2) exclusion of environmental
effects that include (a) contaminants and (b) loosening that work
against condition (1).
Some designers embrace the idea that the toothed lockwashers
provide a multitude of very high pressure points . . . even to
the point of upsetting metal at the points of contact to achieve
(1). My concerns are that a toothed washer is a spacer between
the two surfaces that may contribute to initial joint quality (1)
but leaves the gap "open" for ingress of (a).
In all of our bonding specs at RAC, the use of lockwashers is
never suggested. Self locking all metal nuts are the preferred
anti-loosening technology. In the sketch I published, 99% of the
magic needs to happen in the area just around the screw hole and
between skin and antenna base. All other "prepared" areas add
only marginally to the quality of the joint.
Obviously, the "99% conductivity area" is of very small gap and
the only thing one might add is sealant or anti-moisture guckum (Like
silocone grease) to fill the tiny void around the periphery
of the 99% area to prevent entry of oxidizing agents. Beyond
that, maintainance of pressure over time is enhanced by use
of largest practical hardware torqued to upper limits and
secured with some form of locking technology . . . all metal
locknuts being the technology of choice.
When we were selling contactors with treaded studs for fat wires,
the split-ring, steel washers supplied were discarded and replaced with
internal tooth, phosphor bronze lockwashers. The supplied steel
nuts were replaced with brass. Again, the lion's share of conductive
magic happens were the terminal comes down against the bottom nut.
The lockwasher and nut on top contributes to conductivity but
only a tiny fraction of the total.
Bob. . .
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:48 AM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
>I'll take a stab. Mounting "cap down" means that gravity (and a bit of
>engine vibration) will separate the main current contacts after the coil
>is de-energized should the internal compression spring fail. Mounting the
>other way would have the contacts potentially closing due gravity if the
>spring failed with potential for all sorts of unhappy results.
Okay, gravity is a player here (my earlier post spoke of
g-forces which should have been qualified further to
aerodynamic g-forces). Suppose we hypothesize that the
spring is not going to fail. Now how does orientation
affect operation?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | Connectors vs. Straight Wire |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:40 AM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
>
> > There ARE wire bails for keeping d-subs together. My favorite for
> > cable-to-cable d-subs is remove the jack-screw hardware and use
> > tye-wraps to keep them together.
>
>Must be rarer than hens teeth....all I can find is the IDC D-sub
>w/bail locks. Did find a bail lock kit...going price was $7 a pop
>with one vendor down to $3. Your Ty Wraps look better all the
>time.
Take a look at page 17 of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Connectors/ITT_Cannon/dsub_accessories.pdf
The next greatest thing are Positronic's V series spring
loaded slide latches. See page 10 of:
http://www.connectpositronic.com/pdf/SubDAccess_C007RevB1.pdf
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: vhf antennas |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
Ok, thats made everybody against the manufacturers,I will follow the mass.
Thanks
>
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/10/03 Tue PM 01:08:28 EDT
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: vhf antennas
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 12:33 PM 10/3/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Hi ,I'm building an rv10,and I have contradictories informations about how
> >install the antennas,the counselor and a couple of "masters" say clean the
> >metal from any paint and install the antenna,but the manufacturer send it
> >with a cork gasket(one of the best insulation ),to install .
> >any logical for this.
> >Thanks.
> >Hugo
>
>
> See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
>
> From some earlier posts:
>
> >A while back you had some words of wisdom for a person who'd asked about
> >getting enough metal to metal contact for ground plane purposes with his
> >comm antenna. You mentioned to him that riveting his doubler plates to the
> >skin would provide plenty of contact when paint and other debris was
> >squeezed out during the riveting process. I have a little different twist
> >on this question. I made doubler plates to go inside the fuselage but don't
> >really want to rivet them on. The number of fasteners that hold the
> >antennas to the airplane will hold doublers to the skin and I don't see a
> >need to rivet the doublers on. This however, could cause trouble. Since
> >I've already primed the inside of the aluminum fuselage skin, would like to
> >prime the doublers so they don't corrode when water gets between them and
> >the fuselage skin and don't want to remove the primer from the skin......I
> >fear I will have insufficient connection to get good ground plane action.
> >The comm antennas come with a cork gasket that's supposed to go between the
> >outside skin and the antenna so that limits ground plane connection on the
> >outside skin (presently bare aluminum). Am I gonna have to bite the bullet
> >and rivet the doublers to get some connection or ????(the doublers have
> >nutplates riveted to them to accept the antenna fasteners). Any words of
> >wisdom here? The antennas are the standard store bought COMANT bent whips.
> >Thanks.
>
>
> Welcome to the club. When somebody decides to design a new airplane,
> they start with aero and power plant guys. Then come the structures
> and processes folks. After awhile the systems folks put in fuel,
> hydraulics and flight controls. When the 'airplane' is done, some
> guy with radios, cabin entertainment systems, etc is told, "Okay,
> you can have whatever space is left over . . . but don't CHANGE
> anything."
>
> This approach to an HF antenna installation (without CHANGING
> anything) has resulted in a situation where other equipment items
> inside the all metal airplane are suffering huge interfering
> energies from the HF transmitter. Had the structures and processes
> guys been involved since day-one to make the metal serve as both
> airplane and antenna, we'd have several $millions$ still in the
> corporate pockets instead of blowing that cash on band-aid
> fixes to delivered aircraft.
>
> Now, on a much smaller scale, you're presented with the same
> kind of problem. The laws of physics are immutable. The primary,
> long term, gas-tight connections between your antenna base and
> airframe happen right under the head and nut of the fasteners.
>
> If you need a doubler, then it needs to be well bonded
> to the airframe . . . and that means rivets or high pressure
> joints between ground conductors. If you choose not to
> rivet the doubler, you need to clean 2 extra surfaces before
> installation. See:
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/Antenna_Installation.gif
>
>
> If the doubler is riveted, then surfaces between doubler
> and skin can be left as-manufactured but it wouldn't hurt
> to clean these too. I'd pitch the cork gasket and go for a
> thin bead of moisture sealant around outside edge of antenna
> base that extrudes out to zero-thickness at time of
> installation. PRESSURE and CLEANLINESS around the immediate
> circumference of the mounting screws is where it all happens.
>
>
> >Bob,
> >Speaking of the magic (grounding the base) - looking at the
> >Antenna_Installation.gif ,
> >I have seen toothed lock washers used between the doubler plate and skin.
> >This was on a Cessna. The doubler plate was not riveted to the skin (it
> >came with with the antenna replacement kit). The lock washer assured better
> >el contact (grounding). They used externally toothed lock washers, as per
> >attached. Maybe a better idea would be to use the external-internal toothed
> >type washers (also attached). Opinions?
>
> We're really slice'n and dice'n mouse hairs here. Obviously
> the goal is to get a low ohms connection between the antenna
> base and the skin that is as good 10 years from now as it is
> the day we bolt it on. This comes down to a few simple-ideas:
> (1) pressure high enough to bring two clean surfaces into intimate
> gas tight contact with each other and (2) exclusion of environmental
> effects that include (a) contaminants and (b) loosening that work
> against condition (1).
>
> Some designers embrace the idea that the toothed lockwashers
> provide a multitude of very high pressure points . . . even to
> the point of upsetting metal at the points of contact to achieve
> (1). My concerns are that a toothed washer is a spacer between
> the two surfaces that may contribute to initial joint quality (1)
> but leaves the gap "open" for ingress of (a).
>
> In all of our bonding specs at RAC, the use of lockwashers is
> never suggested. Self locking all metal nuts are the preferred
> anti-loosening technology. In the sketch I published, 99% of the
> magic needs to happen in the area just around the screw hole and
> between skin and antenna base. All other "prepared" areas add
> only marginally to the quality of the joint.
>
> Obviously, the "99% conductivity area" is of very small gap and
> the only thing one might add is sealant or anti-moisture guckum (Like
> silocone grease) to fill the tiny void around the periphery
> of the 99% area to prevent entry of oxidizing agents. Beyond
> that, maintainance of pressure over time is enhanced by use
> of largest practical hardware torqued to upper limits and
> secured with some form of locking technology . . . all metal
> locknuts being the technology of choice.
>
> When we were selling contactors with treaded studs for fat wires,
> the split-ring, steel washers supplied were discarded and replaced with
> internal tooth, phosphor bronze lockwashers. The supplied steel
> nuts were replaced with brass. Again, the lion's share of conductive
> magic happens were the terminal comes down against the bottom nut.
> The lockwasher and nut on top contributes to conductivity but
> only a tiny fraction of the total.
>
> Bob. . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Moreau" <jmoreau2@cox.net>
I am installing Whelen wingtip strobes on my RV8. I have installed a molex multi-pin
plug at the wing root in the event that I ever have to remove the wings.
Does anyone feel that this is inviting a problem with electrial "noise" in my system.
I know that this is a shielded cable. I am a novice and would welcome
any comments or suggestions.
Jeff
--------
Jeff Moreau
RV8A
Virginia Beach, VA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65535#65535
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Well, "cap down" means that gravity (in the usual aerodynamic sense of
positive G maneuvering loads) will assist the internal spring in
separating the high current contacts when the coil energizing current is
removed. This would help in opening sticking contacts due to dirt,
deteriorated contact surfaces, and the like.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:48 AM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>>
>> I'll take a stab. Mounting "cap down" means that gravity (and a bit
>> of engine vibration) will separate the main current contacts after
>> the coil is de-energized should the internal compression spring fail.
>> Mounting the other way would have the contacts potentially closing
>> due gravity if the spring failed with potential for all sorts of
>> unhappy results.
>
> Okay, gravity is a player here (my earlier post spoke of
> g-forces which should have been qualified further to
> aerodynamic g-forces). Suppose we hypothesize that the
> spring is not going to fail. Now how does orientation
> affect operation?
>
> Bob . . .
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Strobe Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry@macsmachine.com>
Jeff,
Having installed a system with similar plugs etc, I could only say that
I've never experienced electrical noise with the strobes active or not.
They've been unplugged several times. Good plugs........
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Jeff Moreau wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jeff Moreau" <jmoreau2@cox.net>
>
>I am installing Whelen wingtip strobes on my RV8. I have installed a molex multi-pin
plug at the wing root in the event that I ever have to remove the wings.
>Does anyone feel that this is inviting a problem with electrial "noise" in my
system. I know that this is a shielded cable. I am a novice and would welcome
any comments or suggestions.
>Jeff
>
>--------
>Jeff Moreau
>RV8A
>Virginia Beach, VA
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65535#65535
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Eric said:
> I think it is time for someone with a little authority to clear this up.
> My authority is so little that I have hidden it under one of the periods
> in this posting. A prize awaits the one who finds it.
>
> 1) Relay mounting. Type 70 Stancor Rodgers White Emerson Tyco. See:
>
> http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/STANCOR/Stancor_Industrial-Control_5760005.pdf
>
> So the manufacturer says, "mount plunger vertical, cap down". I checked
> into the engineering data on this part and of course the corporate
> conglomeratization has destroyed the engineering knowledge that built the
> part. The manufacturer PROMISED they'd get back to me.....It's not DO-160 bubela.
And it's only 122 deg F max operating temp. Etc. etc.
Bob replied:
> Why would you suppose they would make this recommendation? Is the engineering
knowledge behind the recommendation so esoteric that we cannot deduce it for
ourselves?
I assume we can figure it out. My analysis is that the type-70 contactor has poor
water-tightness (especially around the electrical terminals). This is a bit
less of a problem with the cap down. Also, when energized the plunger contacts
an iron stop that is part of the magnetic circuit when closed. There is no room
in the space and the plunger MUST be allowed to contact the stop or the coil
will draw excessive current, etc.--The cap-down orientation prevents accumulation
of debris in the plunger-stop space. So my vote is that gravity is the
lesser issue. On the other hand the contactor was designed for cars, not airplanes--so
who knows what they considered.
>
> "Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less
> obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no
> solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There
> are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight
> lines."
> - R. Buckminster Fuller
Bob . . .
> Interesting quotation . . . I'm fond of quotations
> that offer simple-ideas of easily discovered utility.
> How would you propose we use the learned gentleman's
> to guide our deliberations?
>
Bob, I like this quotation because Fuller suggests casting out "learned" assumptions
and looking at problems without preconceptions. This is more philosophical
than practical of course, but I like the idea that what we should begin by
assuming everything we know is wrong.
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65550#65550
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
At 03:37 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>Bob, I like this quotation because Fuller suggests casting out
>"learned" assumptions and looking at problems without
>preconceptions. This is more philosophical than practical of course,
>but I like the idea that what we should begin by assuming everything
>we know is wrong.
Or at least more complicated than we were first taught. For instance
in that Physics 101 class when the teacher (foolishly) said "assume
this is done in a vacuum and there is no drag". Then you find out
the earth is not a perfect sphere, the adiabatic lapse rate is not
uniform, electrons do not flow from positive to negative, and so
on. It's really depressing ;)
Dave Morris
Message 17
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
Is the term "pull to low" synonomous with connect to ground?
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65568#65568
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Mr. Nuckolls,
I am disappointed and saddened to see you engaging in the "I've got a
secret" style of information dissemination.
If it is in the archive, please say so.
If you have the answer, please give it.
Cordially,
Raymond Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink
(CORRECTION)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:48 AM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
>I'll take a stab. Mounting "cap down" means that gravity (and a bit of
>engine vibration) will separate the main current contacts after the coil
>is de-energized should the internal compression spring fail. Mounting the
>other way would have the contacts potentially closing due gravity if the
>spring failed with potential for all sorts of unhappy results.
Okay, gravity is a player here (my earlier post spoke of
g-forces which should have been qualified further to
aerodynamic g-forces). Suppose we hypothesize that the
spring is not going to fail. Now how does orientation
affect operation?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 19
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
That's probably a safe way to interpret that direction..
As a point of note, there are several different specification standards
for the digital electrical signaling that is used to make one device
communicate with another. Some examples are TTL, LVTTL, SSTL.. Each one
may have a somewhat different definition for what voltage level is
required on an input for the device to interpret the signal as a logic
"low" (or zero). For many (most) applications, grounding an input will be
interpreted as a logic low signal. Some interfaces allow an input to
float up to 600mV (or higher) and still be interpreted as a low.
Hope that helps..
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N395V" <n395v@hughes.net>
>
> Is the term "pull to low" synonomous with connect to ground?
>
> --------
> Milt
> N395V
> F1 Rocket
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65568#65568
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
It's a paedagogic style. One that has fallen out of favor recently
and has been replaced with "when you take the test, the answer will be ...."
I was trained old-school, and I like the way Bob teaches. It
encourages independent thought.
Dave Morris
At 05:51 PM 10/3/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
>Mr. Nuckolls,
>
> I am disappointed and saddened to see you engaging in the "I've got a
>secret" style of information dissemination.
>
> If it is in the archive, please say so.
>
> If you have the answer, please give it.
>
>Cordially,
>Raymond Julian
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
>L. Nuckolls, III
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 12:11 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink
>(CORRECTION)
>
>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 09:48 AM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
> >
> >I'll take a stab. Mounting "cap down" means that gravity (and a bit of
> >engine vibration) will separate the main current contacts after the coil
> >is de-energized should the internal compression spring fail. Mounting the
> >other way would have the contacts potentially closing due gravity if the
> >spring failed with potential for all sorts of unhappy results.
>
> Okay, gravity is a player here (my earlier post spoke of
> g-forces which should have been qualified further to
> aerodynamic g-forces). Suppose we hypothesize that the
> spring is not going to fail. Now how does orientation
> affect operation?
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:37 PM 10/3/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
>
>Eric said:
>
<snip>
> > So the manufacturer says, "mount plunger vertical, cap down". I checked
> > into the engineering data on this part and of course the corporate
> > conglomeratization has destroyed the engineering knowledge that built the
> > part. The manufacturer PROMISED they'd get back to me.....It's not
> DO-160 bubela. And it's only 122 deg F max operating temp. Etc. etc.
>
>
>Bob replied:
> > Why would you suppose they would make this recommendation? Is the
> engineering knowledge behind the recommendation so esoteric that we
> cannot deduce it for ourselves?
>
>
>I assume we can figure it out. My analysis is that the type-70 contactor
>has poor water-tightness (especially around the electrical terminals).
>This is a bit less of a problem with the cap down.
Agreed
> Also, when energized the plunger contacts an iron stop that is part of
> the magnetic circuit when closed. There is no room in the space and the
> plunger MUST be allowed to contact the stop or the coil will draw
> excessive current, etc.
Plunger position or even the presence of a plunger
does not influence static coil current.
>--The cap-down orientation prevents accumulation of debris in the
>plunger-stop space. So my vote is that gravity is the lesser issue. On the
>other hand the contactor was designed for cars, not airplanes--so who
>knows what they considered.
Having disassembled more than a dozen of these
devices over the years, I think we can make a pretty
good guess. The springs are not real strong so the
force of gravity would add a significant aiding
or opposing force depending on orientation. This
wouldn't be much of a concern for getting the critter
closed . . . but contact spreading velocity would
probably see a larger delta due to orientation than
for decay rates of the magnetic field in the coil.
I'll see if I can figure out a way to go measure that
sometime. Also, the bore of the coil bobbin is plastic.
More than one solenoid has become erratic due to
erosion of bobbin interior due to a horizontal
sliding core.
In the case of contact spreading velocity for improved
contact life, cap-down helps. For bobbin erosion,
either vertical orientation would be okay. It MIGHT
be that they considered moisture effects . . . it's
NOT a sealed relay and a non-sealed housing hit with
cool splash WILL suck in water. Better that it's
pooled in the cap than allowed to drip down over
contacts, spring and plunger.
If we were using these devices in an industrial
control situation with hundreds of operations per day
(with expectation for achieving a HIGH percentage
of rated life), then religious observance of orientation
cap-down would probably yield an increase in service life.
Given that these devices in light aircraft operate perhaps
a couple hundred times per year (and at loads much
lighter than rated) the probability is that most
of us will experience a maintenance event on these
contactors due to environmental effects as opposed to
wearing effects.
> >
> > "Everything you've learned in school as "obvious" becomes less and less
> > obvious as you begin to study the universe. For example, there are no
> > solids in the universe. There's not even a suggestion of a solid. There
> > are no absolute continuums. There are no surfaces. There are no straight
> > lines."
> > - R. Buckminster Fuller
>
>
>Bob . . .
>
> > Interesting quotation . . . I'm fond of quotations
> > that offer simple-ideas of easily discovered utility.
> > How would you propose we use the learned gentleman's
> > to guide our deliberations?
> >
>
>
>Bob, I like this quotation because Fuller suggests casting out "learned"
>assumptions and looking at problems without preconceptions. This is more
>philosophical than practical of course, but I like the idea that what we
>should begin by assuming everything we know is wrong.
Agreed . . . and according to some demonstrably practical
folks like Dr. Virgil Elings, one should always proceed
forward with a fine attunement to actions that are not
helping or even worse, going in the wrong direction.
I made his one-sided and limited acquaintance when a reader
pointed me to this interview of Dr. Elings at:
http://webcast.ucsd.edu:8080/ramgen/UCSD_TV/11762.rm
the audio on this presentation was pretty poor. I've
done some post processing on it and placed a temporary
copy at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Temp/Virgil_Elings-Look_at_the_Big_Picture.mp3
I believe both Fuller and Elings would agree that
one of mankind's biggest impediments to progress
is the blind acceptance of preconceptions coupled
with equally blind obedience to those who would hand
out pre-conceptions be they in the form of bad
science or bad plans.
There is risk that some folks grab onto an idea
like the Fuller quotation with a liberal
dose of fundamental attribution error. Like:
"Nothing is real, nothing is what it seems to be.
Everything is irrelevant. Everything I do is
irrelevant. I am irrelevant. Mr. Fuller said so."
That's why I gravitate more toward folks like
Kettering, Kelvin, and most recently Elings.
Their ideas don't take much interpretation.
They really jump out at you. They encourage
healthy skepticism and stand up well to the
repeatable experiment.
Bob . . .
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:51 PM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
>Mr. Nuckolls,
>
> I am disappointed and saddened to see you engaging in the "I've got a
>secret" style of information dissemination.
>
> If it is in the archive, please say so.
>
> If you have the answer, please give it.
I'm disappointed that you're disappointed. When was the last time
you sat down in a class where the instructor walks in and says, "We
have a test next Friday, the answers are on the board. Class
dismissed." If there is no discussion, then there's no
measure of the exchange and retention of ideas. My first
teaching job was at Great Lakes Naval Training Base
40 years ago. Instructors I worked with habitually taught
to the test questions. I refused to do it then and I'm not
going to start now.
Patience my friend. It's not my intent to be secretive
or obtuse.
Bob . . .
Message 23
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| Subject: | [ Larry Rosen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Lists: AeroElectric-List
Subject: Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/LarryRosen@comcast.net.10.03.2006/index.html
----------------------------------------------------------
o Main Photo Share Index
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o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
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----------------------------------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I am currently building a Vans RV-10 and I am to the point where I will
soon need to start the electrical wiring. After thinking through the
various options for the electrical configuration, I decided a single
battery dual alternator design based on Z-13/20 is what I am going to
put into my airplane. Some of the factors into the decision is
redundancy and reliability for my all electric panel, along with my
analysis of the loads for everything I "want" on the e-bus. My load
analysis shows a continuous load of 12 amps with a maximum load (no
diversity) of 25 amps. I modified the base Z diagram to accommodate a
battery that will be mounted in the tail cone.
If you would take a look at my modified Z-13/20 design and comment back
it would be greatly appreciated.
Modifications to the base diagram are highlighted in yellow.
The drawing is in pdf format and you can find it here
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/Elect_R1.pdf>
or a write up and link can be found here
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/index.html>
Thanks
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: [ Larry Rosen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
The first thing that jumps out Larry is that the starter contactor is
unlikely to ever pull in with the warning light connected in series with the
start button and the coil.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Email List Photo Shares" <pictures@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: [ Larry Rosen ] : New Email List Photo Share
Available!
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares
<pictures@matronics.com>
>
>
> A new Email List Photo Share is available:
>
> Poster: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
> Lists: AeroElectric-List
>
> Subject: Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/LarryRosen@comcast.net.10.03.2006/index.html
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> o Main Photo Share Index
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
> o Submitting a Photo Share
>
> If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
> following information along with your email message and files:
>
> 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
> 2) Your Full Name:
> 3) Your Email Address:
> 4) One line Subject description:
> 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
> 6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
>
> Email the information above and your files and photos to:
>
> pictures@matronics.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob McCallum" <robert.mccallum2@sympatico.ca>
Ooops pushed send too quickly.
The first thing that jumps out Larry is that the starter contactor is
unlikely to ever pull in with the warning light connected in series with the
start button and the coil. Same comment applies to contactor used to engage
"E" bus in series with its warning light. The warning lights need to be from
the switch/coil junctions to ground and the switches need to apply voltage
directly to the coils.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Rosen" <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 11:47 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Modified Z13-20 for Peer Review
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Rosen
<LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
> I am currently building a Vans RV-10 and I am to the point where I will
> soon need to start the electrical wiring. After thinking through the
> various options for the electrical configuration, I decided a single
> battery dual alternator design based on Z-13/20 is what I am going to
> put into my airplane. Some of the factors into the decision is
> redundancy and reliability for my all electric panel, along with my
> analysis of the loads for everything I "want" on the e-bus. My load
> analysis shows a continuous load of 12 amps with a maximum load (no
> diversity) of 25 amps. I modified the base Z diagram to accommodate a
> battery that will be mounted in the tail cone.
>
> If you would take a look at my modified Z-13/20 design and comment back
> it would be greatly appreciated.
> Modifications to the base diagram are highlighted in yellow.
> The drawing is in pdf format and you can find it here
> <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/Elect_R1.pdf>
> or a write up and link can be found here
> <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/index.html>
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
> Larry Rosen
> RV-10 #356
> http://lrosen.nerv10.com
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink (CORRECTION) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj" <raymondj@frontiernet.net>
Mr. Nuckolls,
It is my opinion that your particular style of teaching is appropriate for
students that are only marginally interested in the question and in seeking
the solutions.
I make the assumption that those who subscribe to the list and take the time
to read and reply to the list have a high level of motivation.
I would be served better by the presentation of as much of the available
data as practical at the beginning of the solution process.
Thank you for taking the time to respond.
Cordially,
Raymond Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Relays 'G's" skunk stink
(CORRECTION)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:51 PM 10/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj"
<raymondj@frontiernet.net>
>
>Mr. Nuckolls,
>
> I am disappointed and saddened to see you engaging in the "I've
got a
>secret" style of information dissemination.
>
> If it is in the archive, please say so.
>
> If you have the answer, please give it.
I'm disappointed that you're disappointed. When was the last time
you sat down in a class where the instructor walks in and says, "We
have a test next Friday, the answers are on the board. Class
dismissed." If there is no discussion, then there's no
measure of the exchange and retention of ideas. My first
teaching job was at Great Lakes Naval Training Base
40 years ago. Instructors I worked with habitually taught
to the test questions. I refused to do it then and I'm not
going to start now.
Patience my friend. It's not my intent to be secretive
or obtuse.
Bob . . .
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