---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/08/06: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:38 AM - automatic electric trim switch (Mickey Coggins) 2. 12:39 PM - AW: automatic electric trim switch (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 3. 01:14 PM - Re: Burned out switch (europa flugzeug fabrik) 4. 03:28 PM - Forced Learning (Speedy11@aol.com) 5. 04:04 PM - automatic electric trim switch (Paul McAllister) 6. 04:12 PM - Re: Re: Burned out switch (Vern Little) 7. 06:19 PM - charging system problems (Collin Campbell) 8. 06:26 PM - Re: Re: Burned out switch (Richard E. Tasker) 9. 06:39 PM - Re: new to this list (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 06:48 PM - Re: new to this list (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 06:54 PM - Off line for a few days . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 07:10 PM - Re: automatic electric trim switch (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 13. 07:15 PM - Re: Burned out switch (europa flugzeug fabrik) 14. 08:47 PM - Re: AW: automatic electric trim switch (Mickey Coggins) 15. 09:15 PM - Re: Off line for a few days . . . (raymondj) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:32 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I'm installing a trio avionics altitude hold, and it has a cool feature where it will trim the aircraft for you when it is on. They recommend a radio shack bridge rectifier (part number 276-1183) and a DPDT relay (275-206) to allow the normal trim to work even when the altitude hold is engaged. I vaguely recall someone selling a little kit with a the stuff needed so that the pilot and co-pilot can use the trim without having to switch manually. I assume this must be the same thing. Anyone have any links to this product? I'd like to see if it either has better packaging or other features that might be useful. Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:34 PM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Mickey, I use the Matronics Governor - http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm - it has the additional advantage of speed regulation of your trim servo. Greetings from Zollikofen and best wishes, Alfred Alfred Buess Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Mickey Coggins Gesendet: Sonntag, 8. Oktober 2006 15:35 An: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Betreff: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins --> Hi, I'm installing a trio avionics altitude hold, and it has a cool feature where it will trim the aircraft for you when it is on. They recommend a radio shack bridge rectifier (part number 276-1183) and a DPDT relay (275-206) to allow the normal trim to work even when the altitude hold is engaged. I vaguely recall someone selling a little kit with a the stuff needed so that the pilot and co-pilot can use the trim without having to switch manually. I assume this must be the same thing. Anyone have any links to this product? I'd like to see if it either has better packaging or other features that might be useful. Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:14:38 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Burned out switch From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" rv-9a-online(at)telus.net wrote: > The strobe has about a constant 7 amp load (nominal). If the voltage drop, this current increases, as I mentioned... thus overloading the switch and circuit breaker. Uh, no, the current decreases with decreased voltage. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66562#66562 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:28:22 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Forced Learning Dave, Why do you think everyone must study and learn the "lesson?" We are all learned people in different subject areas. I am willing to bet that anyone who monitors or participates in this forum is not lazy, ignorant, stupid, or unwilling to learn. In fact, just the opposite is true. We are all learning. BUT, when all I need is the time, then that's all I need! I have other, more important things to do than learn how to build the clock (it probably wouldn't keep correct time anyway). Academics don't understand that. Engineers and pilots do. Stan Sutterfield Tampa RV-8A "Dude!, I asked you for the time, not how to build a clock!" reaction, usually from those taking a course because it's required, not because they are interested in the subject. As a guy who can only understand amps and volts in terms of water spurting from a garden hose - and I have to be looking at one to get a clear picture, I am more likely than most on this list to reach for the inhaler if an answer to a question leaves me with another question. But, hey, I figure I'm learning, so I reach for the 'Connection, call Stein, reread installation instructions, search the archives, kick the cat, or have another beer, and try to work it out for myself. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:30 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Mickey, I have the one Matt sells and its great!. Take a look at http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm Paul Europa N378PJ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:23 PM PST US From: Vern Little Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Burned out switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Vern Little Sorry, Fred... the strobe power supply is a "constant power" as opposed to a resistive load device. If you decrease the voltage to the power supply (subject to the lower operating limit), the current increases in order for it to generate the same strobe output power. That's why the current required at 28V is about half that required at 12V. Vern europa flugzeug fabrik wrote: > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" > > > rv-9a-online(at)telus.net wrote: >> The strobe has about a constant 7 amp load (nominal). If the voltage drop, this current increases, as I mentioned... thus overloading the switch and circuit breaker. > > Uh, no, the current decreases with decreased voltage. > > Fred F. > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66562#66562 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:12 PM PST US From: "Collin Campbell" Subject: AeroElectric-List: charging system problems I am still trying to figure this thing out. The bus voltage is a constant 14.5 volts. On the last two flights I made (1hr each) I had to reset the system twice in the first 10 min or so. The rest of the flight everything seemed to work fine. Collin, Bearhawk (N370CC) >Let me try to describe the problem as best I can. I am using a Van's 35 >amp alt. a VR-371 voltage/over-voltage protector, and a Electronics >International (VA-1) guage installed in the alt lead. Also using a Odyssey >680 battery. > >The problem is this: Everything seems to work just fine until maybe 10-15 >minutes into the flight when the discharge light on the VA-1 comes on. I >can reset the system by recyling the field breaker and everything goes >back to normal--charging again. This will last maybe another 10-15 >minutes and the whole process repeats itself. I have checked all my >conections, replaced the battery, and now am beginning to suspect the >alternator or even the regulator. But I need some advice before I go >replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. (been there done that before!) If your system needs "reset", then the symptoms suggest that the OV protection system in your voltage regulator is being tripped. This becomes a problem of deducing whether a real OV condition existed -or- the circuit is being nuisance tripped. It's a rational component of troubleshooting to suspect any component. But it's much better to do measurements to determine the physics behind the difficulty before embarking on a swaptronics excursion where one can only hope to pick the right component . . . with the attendant risk that NONE of the components replaced will fix the problem. What are your bus voltages when the system is operating normally? I'm curious as to how you integrated the VR-371 voltage regulator with a Van's alterantor. I was under the impression that Van's sold only internally regulated machines. Let's do the detective work before you pull out any hardware. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:46 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Burned out switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" europa flugzeug fabrik wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" > > >rv-9a-online(at)telus.net wrote: > > >>The strobe has about a constant 7 amp load (nominal). If the voltage drop, this current increases, as I mentioned... thus overloading the switch and circuit breaker. >> >> > >Uh, no, the current decreases with decreased voltage. > > Uh, no, yourself. This is an electronic product and will try to keep the strobe firing voltage the same regardless of the input voltage. That means that the power to the strobe head is relatively constant - which is what you want. To do this the strobe supply draws more current if the input voltage falls (power = voltage x current). Dick Tasker -- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:21 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: new to this list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Mike, Welcome aboard! You've met a few folks on the List and for the short term at least, I'll leave you in good hands. I've got some pressing family matters that will keep me out of circulation for a few days. Bob . . . At 07:57 AM 10/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Hello, > >I have just completed the fuselage on the RV-9 I am building and am about >to begin the process of putting in all things electric. I find myself >overwhelmed with the vast unknown pool of knowledge and I just don't know >where to jump in or begin. > >I have the Aeroelectric book on order. I have talked with Bob. > >Up until this point in the building process I have found pretty clear >instructions for each step (ok, sometimes the plans and drawings were a >little vague) but not for electric installation. > >Is there a "cook book" to use to at least have a place to begin? > >Mike Ice >Anchorage, Alaska ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:10 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: new to this list --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 09:25 PM 10/7/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Michael T. Ice" > >Dave, > >Thanks for the great ideas. I have begun to make lists and your right it >gives me something to do which is a big help. > >Mike Check out the blank form at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/LoadAnalysis.pdf You need one for EACH bus, typically main, e-bus and battery bus. Work this in #2 pencil and use pink eraser for modifying the work product. If you're handy with Excel, you might consider downloading the spread sheets at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Load_Analysis These are good examples and starting points for developing a load analysis that describes what your dream machine is going to look like. This is a good exercise to do BEFORE you buy any hardware or start drilling holes in the panel. The load analysis is a living document so get comfortable with it (you'll be 95% DONE until a year after the airplane flies). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:20 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off line for a few days . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" My stepmother of some 47 years pass away last Friday after nearly 2 years of very uncomfortable wrestling with inoperable cancers. She was 90. There's a gathering of the clan in Medicine Lodge, Kansas this week. Given that my father is not in the best of health either, I'm the surrogate head of family on my father's behalf with number of important but not necessarily unwelcome tasks to attend to. Should be back in the saddle on Thursday. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Mickey, This might have been it.... http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/tcm.html Cheers, Michael Sausen -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 9:35 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins --> Hi, I'm installing a trio avionics altitude hold, and it has a cool feature where it will trim the aircraft for you when it is on. They recommend a radio shack bridge rectifier (part number 276-1183) and a DPDT relay (275-206) to allow the normal trim to work even when the altitude hold is engaged. I vaguely recall someone selling a little kit with a the stuff needed so that the pilot and co-pilot can use the trim without having to switch manually. I assume this must be the same thing. Anyone have any links to this product? I'd like to see if it either has better packaging or other features that might be useful. Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:03 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Burned out switch From: "europa flugzeug fabrik" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "europa flugzeug fabrik" rv-9a-online(at)telus.net wrote: > Sorry, Fred... the strobe power supply is a "constant power" as opposed to a resistive load device. If you decrease the voltage to the power supply (subject to the lower operating limit), the current increases in order for it to generate the same strobe output power. If you are referring to a strobe power supply designed for 14V/28V, well then yes we do have a different story. Whelen is like that, but I just now put a 4.0 A Whelen PS on the electronics bench, and the 4.0V spec is apparently peak current, which occurs in a very brief spike. At 12.3V, that spike is 4.5A, and mostly below 4.0 through the up/down cycle. At 14.1V, it is within spec at brief peak. For a 7A Whelen supply, that predicts to no more than an extra 1.0 amp at peak run off batt only, verses charging voltage. If we then look at the trip curves of a breaker, we will see that a 10A breaker (presume you have that) does not trip instantly at 10A, or even a notable amount above that, except after many seconds lapsing. So whats causing your problem such as to burn up fast-ons, I dont know. Perhaps others can help. Fred F. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66644#66644 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:16 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: AW: AeroElectric-List: automatic electric trim switch --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Europa (Alfred Buess) wrote: > I use the Matronics Governor - http://www.matronics.com/governor/index.htm - > it has the additional advantage of speed regulation of your trim servo. Thanks for the pointers! I also found one on this site: http://www.strongpitchtrim.com/ With the rocketboy trim, I now have three to chose from. Most excellent! -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 finishing ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:06 PM PST US From: "raymondj" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Off line for a few days . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "raymondj" Sorry to hear of your loss. Raymond Julian -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Sunday, October 08, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Off line for a few days . . . --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" My stepmother of some 47 years pass away last Friday after nearly 2 years of very uncomfortable wrestling with inoperable cancers. She was 90. There's a gathering of the clan in Medicine Lodge, Kansas this week. Given that my father is not in the best of health either, I'm the surrogate head of family on my father's behalf with number of important but not necessarily unwelcome tasks to attend to. Should be back in the saddle on Thursday. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------