Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:30 AM - Re: TT ADI Wiring (Werner Schneider)
2. 02:45 AM - Re: New battery option (Bob Lee)
3. 05:37 AM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (Tinne maha)
4. 05:43 AM - Re: New battery option (Harley)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: New battery option (Bill Boyd)
6. 06:57 AM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (Ernest Christley)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: New battery option (Harley)
8. 08:04 AM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 08:16 AM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (Larry Rosen)
10. 08:31 AM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (Matt Prather)
11. 09:48 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
12. 10:14 AM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (John Swartout)
13. 10:28 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 10:28 AM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (John Swartout)
15. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? ()
16. 11:16 AM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 11:19 AM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 11:39 AM - Re: New battery option (Speedy11@aol.com)
19. 11:42 AM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
20. 12:53 PM - Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 (Matt Prather)
21. 01:36 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
22. 01:38 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
23. 01:55 PM - Re: Ground Wire for Starter Contactor? (Chris Byrne)
24. 03:23 PM - Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Bill and Marsha)
25. 04:05 PM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Neil Clayton)
26. 04:15 PM - Re: New battery optionNew battery option/W&B (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
27. 04:21 PM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Dave N6030X)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: New battery option (Kevin Horton)
29. 06:29 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Kevin Horton)
30. 07:28 PM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Kenneth Melvin)
31. 07:54 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
32. 08:09 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
33. 08:21 PM - Re: New battery option (Bob White)
34. 08:25 PM - Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
35. 09:22 PM - Re: New battery option (Larry Ford)
36. 10:30 PM - Re: New battery option (Ed Holyoke)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: TT ADI Wiring |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hi Chris,
I would still go for an on/off switch, except if you have CB's. When the
AP goes nuts you still would need a switch/CB to switch it off in worst
case.
I know of one person where this happened and the momentarily switch did
not work (the AP head was defect).
br Werner
Chris Byrne wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>
>Those of you that have installed a TT ADI.
>Did you wire it through a switch or straight to the bus.
>Just wondering if it needs to be protected while cranking the engine.
>
>Thanks
>Chris Byrne
>SYDNEY
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Subject: | New battery option |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
Bill,
Thanks for the link (http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf).
As it turns out the Odessey PC625 (17AH) is equal in discharge charistics to
the Panasonic LC-X1220P (20AH). In addition, the Odessey 17AH battery out
performs the Panasonic 17AH battery for loads of my endurance bus.
So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA
91% done only 65% to go!
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
Yes, I've done it! (If I can, anyone can)
I have an Ipod Mini running off ship's power, wired into my flightcom 403
intercom. I had a difficult time finding the info & equipment (not all in
one place), but finally got it done. I'm not flying yet, but have operated
the system & listened to the music through my headphones.
As far as accessories, I will have to look up where/what I got later, but a
google search for IPOD accessories yields many hits. You can find chargers
as well as connections to hook into car stereo systems. Not too expensive.
I got a charger, chopped the cigarette lighter off it & wired it straight to
my main bus. I believe most intercoms have a pin labeled aux in or music in
or something like that. I put the output there & voila!
Time: 05:58:12 PM PST US
From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done
this?
If you haven't yet, stop and think that it might just be more convenient and
better
solution afterall to just buy headsets with input plugs and let everyone
listen to the music they want, at the volume they want and to not listen to
anything
if they don't want, etc.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis
>
>Was planning on installing a CD player, but after some consideration, it
>looks like CD's are _eventually_ going to go the way of cassette & video
>tape . Has anybody installed/integrated an IPOD or IPOD -like MP3 player
>with your audio panel? I did a little looking on Apples web-site and didn't
>find an automobile type/docking station. The preference would be to install
>it so that it doesn't have to run solely off it's own internal batteries.
>With the form factor of the ipod being so small, it could be mounted almost
>anywhere and not necessarily on the panel itself. Surely somebody has done
>this?
>
>Deems Davis # 406 Panel/Finishing http://deemsrv10.com/
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
Bob...
A quick search on Google brought this up:
www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC625
As far as I could see, in my few seconds of searching, this was the
lowest price...other distributors Google found went as high as slightly
over $100...
Harley Dixon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Lee wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Thanks for the link (http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf).
> As it turns out the Odessey PC625 (17AH) is equal in discharge charistics to
> the Panasonic LC-X1220P (20AH). In addition, the Odessey 17AH battery out
> performs the Panasonic 17AH battery for loads of my endurance bus.
>
> So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lee
> N52BL KR2
> Suwanee, GA
> 91% done only 65% to go!
>
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
batteriesareus.com is who I dealt with. I think it was 74.50 shipped,
but I've actually misplaced the paperwork at the moment.
-Bill B
On 10/17/06, Harley <harley@agelesswings.com> wrote:
>
> Bob...
>
> A quick search on Google brought this up:
>
> www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC625
>
> As far as I could see, in my few seconds of searching, this was the lowest
> price...other distributors Google found went as high as slightly over
> $100...
>
> Harley Dixon
> ________________________________
>
>
> Bob Lee wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
> Bill,
>
> Thanks for the link
> (http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf).
> As it turns out the Odessey PC625 (17AH) is equal in discharge charistics to
> the Panasonic LC-X1220P (20AH). In addition, the Odessey 17AH battery out
> performs the Panasonic 17AH battery for loads of my endurance bus.
>
> So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
>
> Regards,
>
> Bob Lee
> N52BL KR2
> Suwanee, GA
> 91% done only 65% to go!
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
Message 6
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|
Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Was planning on installing a CD player, but after some consideration,
> it looks like CD's are _eventually_ going to go the way of cassette &
> video tape . Has anybody installed/integrated an IPOD or IPOD -like
> MP3 player with your audio panel? I did a little looking on Apples
> web-site and didn't find an automobile type/docking station. The
> preference would be to install it so that it doesn't have to run
> solely off it's own internal batteries. With the form factor of the
> ipod being so small, it could be mounted almost anywhere and not
> necessarily on the panel itself. Surely somebody has done this?
Install a mini-DIN jack off of your intercom, and you can plug in
whatever next years format might be.
Lock yourself into the Ipod, and you have the same issue that you're
facing now with tapes and CDs. Keep the interface generic.
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
Morning, Bill..
Just checked there (www.batteriesareus.com) and the battery price is
indeed $74.50...and free shipping...
Harley
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Boyd wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd"
> <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>
> batteriesareus.com is who I dealt with. I think it was 74.50 shipped,
> but I've actually misplaced the paperwork at the moment.
>
> -Bill B
>
> On 10/17/06, Harley <harley@agelesswings.com> wrote:
>>
>> Bob...
>>
>> A quick search on Google brought this up:
>>
>> www.batterymart.com/battery.mv?p=ODY-PC625
>>
>> As far as I could see, in my few seconds of searching, this was the
>> lowest
>> price...other distributors Google found went as high as slightly over
>> $100...
>>
>> Harley Dixon
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> Bob Lee wrote:
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>>
>> Bill,
>>
>> Thanks for the link
>> (http://www.odysseybatteries.com/files/techbook.pdf).
>> As it turns out the Odessey PC625 (17AH) is equal in discharge
>> charistics to
>> the Panasonic LC-X1220P (20AH). In addition, the Odessey 17AH battery
>> out
>> performs the Panasonic 17AH battery for loads of my endurance bus.
>>
>> So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bob Lee
>> N52BL KR2
>> Suwanee, GA
>> 91% done only 65% to go!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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|
Subject: | Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:46 AM 10/17/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Gents:
>
>
>How much current should I expect a nearly-fully-charged 20 amp-hour RG
>battery to draw in the event the main alternator gives up the ghost and
>the SD-8 carries the E-bus load?
"Nearly fully charged" is un-quantified . . . so a quantified
answer is not possible.
> I m planning a Heavy-Duty Endurance/Avionics bus which would draw a
> continuous 6 amps, however I could shed an up-to-2-amp load (the PDA
> running a moving map) and let it run on its own battery for a couple
> hours, and/or turn off the COM radio and transponder (~2 amps) if battery
> charging required more than 2 amps or so. But how would I know?
Consider this about alternator and battery behavior:
"Overloaded" alternators will not put out power at a
regulated voltage . . . as the current demands rise to
exceed the alternator's rating, the output voltage will
sag.
The current that a battery draws is strongly influenced
by bus voltage while the current that appliances draw
is roughly proportional to bus voltage. This means that
if you "overload" the alternator with a combination of
running and battery-recharge loads, the voltage will sag
and transfer of power will favor of the running loads.
Starting an engine takes but a few percent of a battery's
capacity. Likelihood that you're going to have a seriously
discharged battery battery by the time you launch is low.
If the battery is still wanting to take in energy from a
14.2 volt bus and your main alternator quits, a 6A running
load will still leave 2A to top off the battery but in no
case is the operation of running loads compromised because
the battery is not topped off.
> By the E-bus Alternate Feed fuse blowing?
The e-bus fuse protects that wire ONLY. If your system
is properly designed, that fuse will NEVER open based
on the combination of battery/alternator/running loads.
> I m not planning to have an ammeter.
That's what load analysis is all about. KNOW what the
loads are for Plan-A and Plan-B and in some cases
Plan-C. Electrical system failure management in flight
based on readings taken from panel instruments is
not good design, planning or maintenance.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Not any help on the wiring, but AirGizmos does make a dock that fits
into the panel for an ipod.
<http://www.airgizmos.com/prod/pd3/index.asp>
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
Ernest Christley wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ernest Christley
> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis
>> <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> Was planning on installing a CD player, but after some consideration,
>> it looks like CD's are _eventually_ going to go the way of cassette &
>> video tape . Has anybody installed/integrated an IPOD or IPOD -like
>> MP3 player with your audio panel? I did a little looking on Apples
>> web-site and didn't find an automobile type/docking station. The
>> preference would be to install it so that it doesn't have to run
>> solely off it's own internal batteries. With the form factor of the
>> ipod being so small, it could be mounted almost anywhere and not
>> necessarily on the panel itself. Surely somebody has done this?
>
> Install a mini-DIN jack off of your intercom, and you can plug in
> whatever next years format might be.
>
> Lock yourself into the Ipod, and you have the same issue that you're
> facing now with tapes and CDs. Keep the interface generic.
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I don't see this as a big concern.. I think the system behavior will be
good with the loads and supplies you are talking about. If the main
alternator fails, the SD8 will supply enough power to run your e-bus plus
2A.
If the battery is really flat, the bus voltage may sag from the regulated
voltage (14.5V) to no lower than about 13.5V. It won't go lower than that
because the battery charge current will drop off steeply as the bus
voltage sags below 14.5V, and would probably be zero if the bus sags to
13V.
The battery will take whatever excess charging energy is available from
the SD-8, but no more. And, if the non-battery-charging bus loads rise
above the output of the SD-8, any charge left in the battery will keep the
bus voltage from sagging further.
As Bob has suggested in the past, a voltmeter is a great tool in this kind
of system.. If your goal is to be able to run until you're out of gas,
reduce electrical loads until the bus voltage rises above 12.5 (indicating
that you aren't depleting the battery). You could then be confident that
the SD-8 was keeping up.
Regards,
Matt-
> Gents:
>
>
> How much current should I expect a nearly-fully-charged 20 amp-hour RG
> battery to draw in the event the main alternator gives up the ghost and
> the
> SD-8 carries the E-bus load? I'm planning a Heavy-Duty Endurance/Avionics
> bus which would draw a continuous 6 amps, however I could shed an
> up-to-2-amp load (the PDA running a moving map) and let it run on its own
> battery for a couple hours, and/or turn off the COM radio and transponder
> (~2 amps) if battery charging required more than 2 amps or so. But how
> would I know? By the E-bus Alternate Feed fuse blowing? I'm not planning
> to have an ammeter.
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
Ed:
With in the body of your email I inserted my responces.
Barry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Frank,
I've been following this thread for a while. I like your idea for the
fuel system. Just a couple of questions.
I'm thinking of using a carbed lycoming. Why couldn't I use a
mechanical pump, an off-left-right-both fuel valve, and two electric pumps?
[Barry] - It depends on what type of plane. You DO NOT run off BOTH with a
Low Wing plane. The reason is fuel flow is NEVER equal from both tanks. When
one tank runs dry before the other, the engine's fuel pump will SUCK AIR.
This does not happen on Gravity feed systems since gravity will keep the fuel
flowing even when one tank is dry.
Another reason for NOT running off BOTH is Fuel Management. When the brain
is FORCED to think about switching tanks it generally does a better job of
keeping important thing foremost in the thought pattern. This is something the
FAA talked about in the WINGS PROGRAM.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
===========================================
Normal Operation:
Fuel valve on both all the time (no valve to switch).
One or the other electric pump on to select tank used.
Tanks switched with the pumps.
Takeoff and landing.
Same as above but both electric pumps on.
Failures.
Electric pump failure. Fuel selector switched to that tank if that fuel
is needed.
Mechanical pump failure would NOT be noticed in this system but could be
checked at startup (or in the air if you wanted to turn both pumps off).
All of the advantages you pointed out but would not be dependent on the
electrical system or an electric pump failure.
I like simple systems. I owned and flew a Beech Duchess (light light
twin) for 14 years. Left tank fed left engine, right tank fed right
engine. No switching fuel valves unless an engine failure. Went back
to a single engine three years ago, first time I had to switch tanks I
wasn't happy having to fool with the fuel. A year later in the same
plane, my wife (a pilot also) switched tanks for me but commented that
it didn't feel right going into the left position. I looked down at the
valve and saw that a loose nut from a screw was lodged between the
handle and the stop preventing the valve from fully engaging. Luckily
the engine continued running , valve back to right, fish nut out, valve
to left then worked fine. Should there be loose nuts in the airplane?
No, but stuff happens. Therefore when I heard of your system, I
liked it immediately.
Message 12
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Subject: | E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-bus Operations With SD-8
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:46 AM 10/17/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Gents:
>
>
>
>How much current should I expect a nearly-fully-charged 20 amp-hour RG
>battery to draw in the event the main alternator gives up the ghost and
>the SD-8 carries the E-bus load?
"Nearly fully charged" is un-quantified . . . so a quantified
answer is not possible.
I know. I was fishing for a range of probable draws. It struck me
that battery charge state represents an UNKNOWN variable that I lack
the
necessary knowledge to properly plan for.
I trust that the Z-drawings represent "proper system design," but
practically everything I know about airplane electrical systems has
come
from your book and this list. When I find what APPEAR to be
inconsistencies, I seek clarification. You stress the importance of
understanding the operation of whatever system you use.
You recommend sizing a main alternator to have 20 - 25% of
capacity
available for battery charging, IIRC. In a single-engine VFR OBAM
airplane with a typical 40A alternator, that means 8 to 10 amps for
battery charging. O.K.--I assumed that is a value that would charge
even a severely discharged battery in a "reasonable" period of time
without starving the other loads. But at the other end--a "nearly-
fully charged battery"--all I knew was that when I use a battery
charger
to charge up a deep cycle battery, the current draw diminishes as
the
battery gets charged, but it never goes to zero. It is not clear from
the
small-scale meter on the charger just what that amperage is.
<snip>
if you "overload" the alternator with a combination of
running and battery-recharge loads, the voltage will sag
and transfer of power will favor of the running loads.
Starting an engine takes but a few percent of a battery's
capacity. Likelihood that you're going to have a seriously
discharged battery battery by the time you launch is low.
If the battery is still wanting to take in energy from a
14.2 volt bus and your main alternator quits, a 6A running
load will still leave 2A to top off the battery but in no
case is the operation of running loads compromised because
the battery is not topped off.
Thanks. That relieves my concern.
> By the E-bus Alternate Feed fuse blowing?
The e-bus fuse protects that wire ONLY. If your system
is properly designed, that fuse will NEVER open based
on the combination of battery/alternator/running loads.
Okay. Didn't know if a hungry battery could draw enough to
threaten
that fuse. I'm relieved that it can't.
> I m not planning to have an ammeter.
That's what load analysis is all about. KNOW what the
loads are for Plan-A and Plan-B and in some cases
Plan-C.
That's why I asked the question--I discovered there was a load I
didn't KNOW the value of--or where else to find it. But you've shown
me that that item (battery charging load) doesn't really matter as
long
as I KNOW that if bus voltage isn't close to the set point of the
SD-8,
I may need to shed some other KNOWN load to let the SD-8 devote
some
more electrons to battery charging--even though that shouldn't be
necessary
if I haven't abused the battery.
Electrical system failure management in flight
based on readings taken from panel instruments is
not good design, planning or maintenance.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
The way I ran this system was to only run both pumps for TO and
landing...Maybe batting around the pattern I would leave both pumps
running but generally would only do this if I had way more fuel that I
would burn on the flight.
Normal cruise would be one pump or the other...if the pump quit i simply
flipped on the second pump.
What you are getting at Barry is the fact that you have to understand
the system is different and is managed accordingly. But it is very
simple and the only really nasty failure mode I can think of is what
happens in the event of a lightening strike.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
Ed:
With in the body of your email I inserted my responces.
Barry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Frank,
I've been following this thread for a while. I like your idea for the
fuel system. Just a couple of questions.
I'm thinking of using a carbed lycoming. Why couldn't I use a
mechanical pump, an off-left-right-both fuel valve, and two electric
pumps?
[Barry] - It depends on what type of plane. You DO NOT run off BOTH
with a Low Wing plane. The reason is fuel flow is NEVER equal from both
tanks. When one tank runs dry before the other, the engine's fuel pump
will SUCK AIR.
This does not happen on Gravity feed systems since gravity will keep the
fuel flowing even when one tank is dry.
Another reason for NOT running off BOTH is Fuel Management. When the
brain is FORCED to think about switching tanks it generally does a
better job of keeping important thing foremost in the thought pattern.
This is something the FAA talked about in the WINGS PROGRAM.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third
time."
Yamashiada
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
==================
Normal Operation:
Fuel valve on both all the time (no valve to switch).
One or the other electric pump on to select tank used.
Tanks switched with the pumps.
Takeoff and landing.
Same as above but both electric pumps on.
Failures.
Electric pump failure. Fuel selector switched to that tank if that fuel
is needed.
Mechanical pump failure would NOT be noticed in this system but could be
checked at startup (or in the air if you wanted to turn both pumps off).
All of the advantages you pointed out but would not be dependent on the
electrical system or an electric pump failure.
I like simple systems. I owned and flew a Beech Duchess (light light
twin) for 14 years. Left tank fed left engine, right tank fed right
engine. No switching fuel valves unless an engine failure. Went back
to a single engine three years ago, first time I had to switch tanks I
wasn't happy having to fool with the fuel. A year later in the same
plane, my wife (a pilot also) switched tanks for me but commented that
it didn't feel right going into the left position. I looked down at the
valve and saw that a loose nut from a screw was lodged between the
handle and the stop preventing the valve from fully engaging. Luckily
the engine continued running , valve back to right, fish nut out, valve
to left then worked fine. Should there be loose nuts in the airplane?
No, but stuff happens. Therefore when I heard of your system, I
liked it immediately.
Message 14
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Subject: | E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
Thanks, Matt. I didn't comprehend that the battery would be a kind of
"spongy" load that would only draw whatever surplus current is available. I
get it now.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt
Prather
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: E-bus Operations With SD-8
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
I don't see this as a big concern.. I think the system behavior will be
good with the loads and supplies you are talking about. If the main
alternator fails, the SD8 will supply enough power to run your e-bus plus
2A.
If the battery is really flat, the bus voltage may sag from the regulated
voltage (14.5V) to no lower than about 13.5V. It won't go lower than that
because the battery charge current will drop off steeply as the bus
voltage sags below 14.5V, and would probably be zero if the bus sags to
13V.
The battery will take whatever excess charging energy is available from
the SD-8, but no more. And, if the non-battery-charging bus loads rise
above the output of the SD-8, any charge left in the battery will keep the
bus voltage from sagging further.
As Bob has suggested in the past, a voltmeter is a great tool in this kind
of system.. If your goal is to be able to run until you're out of gas,
reduce electrical loads until the bus voltage rises above 12.5 (indicating
that you aren't depleting the battery). You could then be confident that
the SD-8 was keeping up.
Regards,
Matt-
> Gents:
>
>
> How much current should I expect a nearly-fully-charged 20 amp-hour RG
> battery to draw in the event the main alternator gives up the ghost and
> the
> SD-8 carries the E-bus load? I'm planning a Heavy-Duty Endurance/Avionics
> bus which would draw a continuous 6 amps, however I could shed an
> up-to-2-amp load (the PDA running a moving map) and let it run on its own
> battery for a couple hours, and/or turn off the COM radio and transponder
> (~2 amps) if battery charging required more than 2 amps or so. But how
> would I know? By the E-bus Alternate Feed fuse blowing? I'm not planning
> to have an ammeter.
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done |
this?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
---- Tinne maha <tinnemaha@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Tinne maha" <tinnemaha@hotmail.com>
>
> Yes, I've done it! (If I can, anyone can)
>
> I have an Ipod Mini running off ship's power, wired into my flightcom 403
> intercom. I had a difficult time finding the info & equipment (not all in
> one place), but finally got it done. I'm not flying yet, but have operated
> the system & listened to the music through my headphones.
>
> As far as accessories, I will have to look up where/what I got later, but a
> google search for IPOD accessories yields many hits. You can find chargers
> as well as connections to hook into car stereo systems. Not too expensive.
> I got a charger, chopped the cigarette lighter off it & wired it straight to
> my main bus. I believe most intercoms have a pin labeled aux in or music in
> or something like that. I put the output there & voila!
>
>
>
> Time: 05:58:12 PM PST US
> From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done
> this?
>
> If you haven't yet, stop and think that it might just be more convenient and
> better
> solution afterall to just buy headsets with input plugs and let everyone
> listen to the music they want, at the volume they want and to not listen to
> anything
> if they don't want, etc.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis
> >
> >Was planning on installing a CD player, but after some consideration, it
> >looks like CD's are _eventually_ going to go the way of cassette & video
> >tape . Has anybody installed/integrated an IPOD or IPOD -like MP3 player
> >with your audio panel? I did a little looking on Apples web-site and didn't
> >find an automobile type/docking station. The preference would be to install
> >it so that it doesn't have to run solely off it's own internal batteries.
> >With the form factor of the ipod being so small, it could be mounted almost
> >anywhere and not necessarily on the panel itself. Surely somebody has done
> >this?
> >
> >Deems Davis # 406 Panel/Finishing http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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Subject: | E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
While we are on the subject....What voltage is the SD8 normally
regulated to? I have yet to test it for real (and I have electric fuel
pumps so its hard to get more than 12.2V at normal ground running
RPMs...)But I do see the volts drop from 12.2V to 12 at idle so I assume
its functioning.
I think I might take off with just the SD8 running (after taxiing out to
the runway with the 60A altrunning to make sure I have a fully charged
battery) and cirle over the airport to make sure the SD8 keeps 12.1V or
above during my min power draw emergency scenario.
Sound reasonable?
Thanks
Frank
________________________________
Message 17
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Subject: | Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Deems,
Here is what I am planning on doing with the PS 8000B that I'm putting
in.
First I am using an Alpine IVA-D300 for the core entertainment system.
It has Sirius, DVD, MP3/WMA, external audio/video input capabilities,
and the screen retracts when not in use. It was the unit you saw in my
truck at Airventure. In addition I am putting a screen in the back of
the seats for the rear seat pax. You can pick these up from eBay
I am putting in a switch to make the copilot seat selectable between
crew and pax so if it is a non-pilot they aren't stuck over with me and
I can listen to music and they can watch a movie or whatever with the
pax.
There will be a camera in the top of the VS that can be selected as an
input on the Alpine for an external view.
In addition I am putting in a regular mini jack in the backseat for
the pax to plug in whatever they may want for music.
Lastly I am putting in jacks (not sure where yet) for the external
audio/video inputs in the Alpine to plug in whatever is the next big
thing for audio/video playback. Maybe something like the Creative Zen
Vision. 60GB is enough for me to carry 75 movies which should be enough
selection to keep the most indecisive 5 year old happy.
I may also use the Alpines audio/video outputs and connect them to a
remote mounted camcorder for the external shots when the whim hit's me.
It seems like a confusing bunch of things that are overly complicated
but it really isn't that bad. It's really just two switches and a
couple jacks. But it should provide enough flexibility to keep the
family/pax happy on a 6 hour flight regardless of what tech does for a
while. Now if I can just get my wife to understand that coming down
from 15,000 feet for a potty break costs just a bit more than pulling
over at a gas station. :-)
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Deems Davis
>> <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> Was planning on installing a CD player, but after some consideration,
>> it looks like CD's are _eventually_ going to go the way of cassette &
>> video tape . Has anybody installed/integrated an IPOD or IPOD -like
>> MP3 player with your audio panel? I did a little looking on Apples
>> web-site and didn't find an automobile type/docking station. The
>> preference would be to install it so that it doesn't have to run
>> solely off it's own internal batteries. With the form factor of the
>> ipod being so small, it could be mounted almost anywhere and not
>> necessarily on the panel itself. Surely somebody has done this?
>
> Install a mini-DIN jack off of your intercom, and you can plug in
> whatever next years format might be.
>
> Lock yourself into the Ipod, and you have the same issue that you're
> facing now with tapes and CDs. Keep the interface generic.
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
This is not related to batteries, but ... Franz, you have one of the coolest
names I've ever seen!
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Franz Fux
Operations Manager
Last Frontier Heliskiing
www.lastfrontierheli.com
phone: 1 250 558-7980
Box 1118
Vernon, BC
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
Frank:
The issue is NOT running the pumps, one or both ... BUT, running of BOTH
tanks at the same time. This is a No-No for low wingers. It is easier to pump
AIR than fuel so the pumps run dry ALL PUMPS electrical and mechanical. For
when a pump is given a choice of AIR Vs Fuel, such as in the 'Y' connection where
both tanks feed the same engine mechanical pump, the pump takes the path of
least resistance ... AIR.
As far as the lighting strike ... I don't know for sure, but I would say you
are TOAST.
But, I can guarantee 100% that a dry tank in a Low Wing Both configuration
will lead to an emergency situation.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
=============================================================================
=========
The way I ran this system was to only run both pumps for TO and
landing...Maybe batting around the pattern I would leave both pumps running but
generally
would only do this if I had way more fuel that I would burn on the flight.
Normal cruise would be one pump or the other...if the pump quit i simply
flipped on the second pump.
What you are getting at Barry is the fact that you have to understand the
system is different and is managed accordingly. But it is very simple and the
only really nasty failure mode I can think of is what happens in the event of a
lightening strike.
Frank
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
Ed:
With in the body of your email I inserted my responces.
Barry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Frank,
I've been following this thread for a while. I like your idea for the
fuel system. Just a couple of questions.
I'm thinking of using a carbed lycoming. Why couldn't I use a
mechanical pump, an off-left-right-both fuel valve, and two electric pumps?
[Barry] - It depends on what type of plane. You DO NOT run off BOTH with a
Low Wing plane. The reason is fuel flow is NEVER equal from both tanks. When
one tank runs dry before the other, the engine's fuel pump will SUCK AIR.
This does not happen on Gravity feed systems since gravity will keep the fuel
flowing even when one tank is dry.
Another reason for NOT running off BOTH is Fuel Management. When the brain
is FORCED to think about switching tanks it generally does a better job of
keeping important thing foremost in the thought pattern. This is something the
FAA talked about in the WINGS PROGRAM.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
===========================================
Message 20
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Subject: | E-bus Operations With SD-8 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Noodling around on the aeroelectric website, I saw this pdf:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Alternators/SD8-Performance.pdf
It shows the output current at 13.8V and 12.5V. I don't know what the
voltage would be at zero load... Depending on what "normal ground running
RPMs" actually are, you could extrapolate what the bus load is, or if you
know what the bus load is, you can determine wether the alternator is
actually functioning. 12.2V, depending one where you are measuring it,
seems kind of low..
Matt-
> While we are on the subject....What voltage is the SD8 normally
> regulated to? I have yet to test it for real (and I have electric fuel
> pumps so its hard to get more than 12.2V at normal ground running
> RPMs...)But I do see the volts drop from 12.2V to 12 at idle so I assume
> its functioning.
>
> I think I might take off with just the SD8 running (after taxiing out to
> the runway with the 60A altrunning to make sure I have a fully charged
> battery) and cirle over the airport to make sure the SD8 keeps 12.1V or
> above during my min power draw emergency scenario.
>
> Sound reasonable?
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> ________________________________
>
>
Message 21
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Subject: | Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
It is not a NO-NO Barry....In an experimental airplane you can do what
you want...And I have and i'm happy with the system. I simply leave a
small reserve in each tank.
As I said the only time I run both pumps is for take off and landing. if
you did suck a tank dry then you screwed up...Simply turn off the low
tank, not that it should have been running with a nearly empty tank in
the first place.
I think if you focussed on the benefits of the system (i.e fuel pumps in
both both a cool place and in the hydraulically correct place) then the
small downside of sucking a tank dry (that should never happen unless
your asleep) is a minor consideration.
I did not suck a tank dry in 400 hours...but as I said the system is not
normally run with both pumps running at the same time.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
Frank:
The issue is NOT running the pumps, one or both ... BUT, running of BOTH
tanks at the same time. This is a No-No for low wingers. It is easier
to pump AIR than fuel so the pumps run dry ALL PUMPS electrical and
mechanical. For when a pump is given a choice of AIR Vs Fuel, such as
in the 'Y' connection where both tanks feed the same engine mechanical
pump, the pump takes the path of least resistance ... AIR.
As far as the lighting strike ... I don't know for sure, but I would say
you are TOAST.
But, I can guarantee 100% that a dry tank in a Low Wing Both
configuration will lead to an emergency situation.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third
time."
Yamashiada
============
The way I ran this system was to only run both pumps for TO and
landing...Maybe batting around the pattern I would leave both pumps
running but generally would only do this if I had way more fuel that I
would burn on the flight.
Normal cruise would be one pump or the other...if the pump quit i simply
flipped on the second pump.
What you are getting at Barry is the fact that you have to understand
the system is different and is managed accordingly. But it is very
simple and the only really nasty failure mode I can think of is what
happens in the event of a lightening strike.
Frank
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
Ed:
With in the body of your email I inserted my responces.
Barry
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hi Frank,
I've been following this thread for a while. I like your idea for the
fuel system. Just a couple of questions.
I'm thinking of using a carbed lycoming. Why couldn't I use a
mechanical pump, an off-left-right-both fuel valve, and two electric
pumps?
[Barry] - It depends on what type of plane. You DO NOT run off BOTH
with a Low Wing plane. The reason is fuel flow is NEVER equal from both
tanks. When one tank runs dry before the other, the engine's fuel pump
will SUCK AIR.
This does not happen on Gravity feed systems since gravity will keep the
fuel flowing even when one tank is dry.
Another reason for NOT running off BOTH is Fuel Management. When the
brain is FORCED to think about switching tanks it generally does a
better job of keeping important thing foremost in the thought pattern.
This is something the FAA talked about in the WINGS PROGRAM.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third
time."
Yamashiada
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
==================
Message 22
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Subject: | Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
Oh BTW this statement is incorrect...The air will simply vent through
the float bowl. Note the fuel; pumps are in the wingroots. The pump will
not pump air against the other pump that is pumping liquid...Can't
happen.
For a FI'd engine it won't vent air through the injection system bu it
still won't pump air.
Frank
________________________________
But, I can guarantee 100% that a dry tank in a Low Wing Both
configuration will lead to an emergency situation.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Ground Wire for Starter Contactor? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
Bob
What was the out come of the molded rubber boots?
I actually have the S701-2 and have reconfigured the jumpers to the S701-1
configuration. I figured the actual contactors are one and the same.
The boots are on there to stay (grinder will be required) and there is no
way the contactor will get a ground with them on. Are you still recommending
to grind them off?
Can the case be grounded by running a wire to the gnd forest of tabs. If so
what size wire. The contactor is mounted on a composite firewall 2' from the
tabs. Starter contactor is on the firewall side which grounds through the
stainless firewall. If the boots come off the contactor will ground through
the firewall via the starter mounting bolts (starter contactor and battery
contactor mounted back to back)
Thanks Bob.
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
Message 24
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|
Subject: | Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha" <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
Whare do I start looking for a supplyer for custom made ruboff decal
lettering for my panel? Bill S.
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Neil Clayton <harvey4@earthlink.net>
Hi Bill....I'm very interested in this subject too.
Pls send me any replies you get.
Many thanks
Neil
At 06:21 PM 10/17/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
><docyukon@ptcnet.net>
>
>Whare do I start looking for a supplyer for custom made ruboff decal
>lettering for my panel? Bill S.
>
>
>--
--
Message 26
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|
Subject: | Re: New battery optionNew battery option/W&B |
I have done numerous preliminary W&B calculations and reached a similar
conclusion. Occupant weight in an RV-7 is aft of the empty CG.
My solution will be to hang a Hartzell C/S prop on the nose. At least
the 20 Lbs. of ballast on the nose will provide an advantage in short
field and climb capability.
Larry Tompkins
360 896-2925
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
This is where I'm getting ready to send my sheet:
http://www.pinkscolor.com/
Dave Morris
At 05:21 PM 10/17/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
><docyukon@ptcnet.net>
>
>Whare do I start looking for a supplyer for custom made ruboff decal
>lettering for my panel? Bill S.
>
>
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
> So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
There used to be several vendors who sold a lot of Odyssey batteries
on eBay. I bought mine there for about $50, plus shipping. I did a
search on PC625, and only found one vendor now, but he sells them for
$47 + $13 shipping. Hard to beat that price.
http://tinyurl.com/sfwps
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Barry's statement is true for most low wing light aircraft. Frank's
aircraft has an unusual fuel system design that shouldn't have a
problem in this scenario, as fuel pumps generally do a pretty poor
job of pumping air. It would be good to do an actual test to
demonstrate this mode of operation though, just in case there is a
gotcha lurking.
Some other low wing aircraft (e.g. some Yaks) use gravity feed from
both wings to a small header tank, and have the fuel pump sucking
from the header tank. This would also prevent an emergency if you
run one wing dry with the fuel selector in Both.
But, on RVs with a "normal" fuel system, running one wing dry with a
fuel selector on Both would lead to an engine failure.
Kevin Horton
On 17 Oct 2006, at 16:37, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> Oh BTW this statement is incorrect...The air will simply vent
> through the float bowl. Note the fuel; pumps are in the wingroots.
> The pump will not pump air against the other pump that is pumping
> liquid...Can't happen.
>
> For a FI'd engine it won't vent air through the injection system bu
> it still won't pump air.
>
> Frank
>
>
> But, I can guarantee 100% that a dry tank in a Low Wing Both
> configuration will lead to an emergency situation.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Kenneth Melvin" <melvinke@coho.net>
Aerographics ( http://www.aerographics.com/) do a superb job.
Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and
Marsha
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 3:22 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Ruboff decals for panel lettering
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill and Marsha"
--> <docyukon@ptcnet.net>
Whare do I start looking for a supplyer for custom made ruboff decal
lettering for my panel? Bill S.
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 10/17/06 4:40:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
frank.hinde@hp.com writes:
> It is not a NO-NO Barry....In an experimental airplane you can do what
> you want...And I have and i'm happy with the system. I simply leave a
> small reserve in each tank.
===========================
Frank:
Experimental has nothing to do with it. It is PHYSICS. Do some simple
experimenting. Make up a 'Y' fitting have the Gas Tank on one side of the 'Y'
and
NOTHING but AIR on the other side. Now put the pump at the bottom of the 'Y'.
What do you think will happen? Lots of pump noise but NO FUEL.
Now, I know you are going to say: But I have the electric pump at the top of
the 'Y' ... It does NOT matter. Your mechanical engine pump is still at the
bottom of the 'Y' and it will still suck air. Yet you may be lucky and get
some fuel mixed with air ... Gee in this case I'd take physics over luck.
As for your statement about the air leaking out the float bowl ... I agree
100%. It sure will ... Because AIR is the only thing that will be in the float
bowl.
#2
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 32
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Subject: | Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
I tested it on the ground but I think I'll avoid the temptation in
flight...:)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
--> <khorton01@rogers.com>
Barry's statement is true for most low wing light aircraft. Frank's
aircraft has an unusual fuel system design that shouldn't have a problem
in this scenario, as fuel pumps generally do a pretty poor job of
pumping air. It would be good to do an actual test to demonstrate this
mode of operation though, just in case there is a gotcha lurking.
Some other low wing aircraft (e.g. some Yaks) use gravity feed from both
wings to a small header tank, and have the fuel pump sucking from the
header tank. This would also prevent an emergency if you run one wing
dry with the fuel selector in Both.
But, on RVs with a "normal" fuel system, running one wing dry with a
fuel selector on Both would lead to an engine failure.
Kevin Horton
On 17 Oct 2006, at 16:37, Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) wrote:
> Oh BTW this statement is incorrect...The air will simply vent through
> the float bowl. Note the fuel; pumps are in the wingroots.
> The pump will not pump air against the other pump that is pumping
> liquid...Can't happen.
>
> For a FI'd engine it won't vent air through the injection system bu it
> still won't pump air.
>
> Frank
>
>
> But, I can guarantee 100% that a dry tank in a Low Wing Both
> configuration will lead to an emergency situation.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
Message 33
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|
Subject: | Re: New battery option |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
I would be a little cautious here. Those don't look like Odyssey
batteries. It looks to me like the actual part number is UB16CL-B and
they are meant to _replace_ the PC625. His PC680's clearly say
"UNIVERSAL" on the side with a part number of UB22-12N. FWIW.
Bob W.
Do not archive
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:19:10 -0400
Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
> >
> > So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
>
> There used to be several vendors who sold a lot of Odyssey batteries
> on eBay. I bought mine there for about $50, plus shipping. I did a
> search on PC625, and only found one vendor now, but he sells them for
> $47 + $13 shipping. Hard to beat that price.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/sfwps
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 34
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Subject: | Fuel Pump Switch(es) |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Barry we have beaten this to death I think....Clearly I have not
conveyed the layout of the system.
I do not have a mechanical pump. I have two electric pumps...Each pump
is in the wingroot...I.e pushing on the fuel.
There is no point in the system that the fuel is under suck (except
right at the discharge of the tank)....Now the two pressure feeds from
each pump join at what was the selector valve...Its a simple tee
fitting. There is a check valve in each of these feeds.
Now if a pump goes dry it does not pump air against the head of the
other pump...I have proved this on the ground...Doesn't do the pump much
good and I would never intentionally run it dry because then you have
lost redundancy...I.e I'm down to a single electric pump only.
If I screwed up and ran a tank dry I would hope it would be running a
single pump (cruise mode) and I would simply flip on the other
pump...power restored no problem.
If I ran a tank dry with both pumping I would probably not know about it
because the dead pump won't pump air.
Now why did I do this your probably asking...Simple, its an almost
vapour lock proof system no matter what fuel you choose to run.
Cheers
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fuel Pump Switch(es)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE@aol.com
In a message dated 10/17/06 4:40:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
frank.hinde@hp.com writes:
> It is not a NO-NO Barry....In an experimental airplane you can do what
> you want...And I have and i'm happy with the system. I simply leave a
> small reserve in each tank.
===========================
Frank:
Experimental has nothing to do with it. It is PHYSICS. Do some simple
experimenting. Make up a 'Y' fitting have the Gas Tank on one side of
the 'Y' and NOTHING but AIR on the other side. Now put the pump at the
bottom of the 'Y'.
What do you think will happen? Lots of pump noise but NO FUEL.
Now, I know you are going to say: But I have the electric pump at the
top of the 'Y' ... It does NOT matter. Your mechanical engine pump is
still at the bottom of the 'Y' and it will still suck air. Yet you may
be lucky and get some fuel mixed with air ... Gee in this case I'd take
physics over luck.
As for your statement about the air leaking out the float bowl ... I
agree 100%. It sure will ... Because AIR is the only thing that will be
in the float bowl.
#2
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third time."
Yamashiada
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: New battery option |
Message 36
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Subject: | New battery option |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
Yeah, but that's not an odyssey battery that he's selling.
Pax,
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin
Horton
Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New battery option
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
<khorton01@rogers.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Lee" <bob@flyboybob.com>
>
> So where can we find the best price on an Odessey PC625?
There used to be several vendors who sold a lot of Odyssey batteries
on eBay. I bought mine there for about $50, plus shipping. I did a
search on PC625, and only found one vendor now, but he sells them for
$47 + $13 shipping. Hard to beat that price.
http://tinyurl.com/sfwps
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
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