Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Dave)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Nancy Ghertner)
3. 06:51 AM - Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering (Brett Ferrell)
4. 07:12 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/18/06 (Lee Logan)
5. 07:53 AM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/18/06 (Dave N6030X)
6. 08:46 AM - Powering fuel injectors (Bill Bradburry)
7. 10:26 AM - Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of relays? ()
8. 11:40 AM - Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of relays? (Dave N6030X)
9. 12:30 PM - Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of relays? (sgettings@cfl.rr.com)
10. 12:49 PM - Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of relays? (James H Nelson)
11. 02:09 PM - Boots on Battery Contactor. (Chris Byrne)
12. 04:32 PM - Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of re... (FLYaDIVE@aol.com)
13. 05:25 PM - Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of re... (Matt Prather)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave <dave@abrahamson.net>
A totally different approach is offered by Front Panel Express
http://frontpanelexpress.com/. They provide labeled cutouts on
aluminum. Anyone try them?
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Nancy Ghertner <nghertner@verizon.net>
On 10/19/06 6:29 AM, "Dave" <dave@abrahamson.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave <dave@abrahamson.net>
>
> A totally different approach is offered by Front Panel Express
> http://frontpanelexpress.com/. They provide labeled cutouts on
> aluminum. Anyone try them?
>
>
>
>
>
Aircraft Engravers has multiple solutions.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Ruboff decals for panel lettering |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brett Ferrell" <bferrell@123mail.net>
I've used frontpanel express, and have been very pleased with their
workmanship.
http://www.velocityxl.com/Electrical.htm#Circuit Breakers
Brett
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nancy Ghertner" <nghertner@verizon.net>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Ruboff decals for panel lettering
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Nancy Ghertner
> <nghertner@verizon.net>
>
> On 10/19/06 6:29 AM, "Dave" <dave@abrahamson.net> wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave <dave@abrahamson.net>
>>
>> A totally different approach is offered by Front Panel Express
>> http://frontpanelexpress.com/. They provide labeled cutouts on
>> aluminum. Anyone try them?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Aircraft Engravers has multiple solutions.
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/18/06 |
Still wondering if anyone has any experience with the Garmin GMX 30 "Smart
Antenna"? I need an XM receiver input to complete my homemade nav system.
I'm using a mini-computer and a dedicated 8" LCD display along with
AnywhereMap. The Weather Worx receiver is an obvious option, but I just ran
across the GMX 30 which "appears" to have all the features I need for a lot
less money. Am I missing anything here???
Regards,
Lee...
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/18/06 |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
I believe the problem with your comparison is that the GXM 30 outputs
encoded information and is only compatible with certain Garmin
navigator GPSes. Your "mini-computer" will not know what to do with
the signals unless you write software to take the data and display
it. So you need the WX Worx, which does that translation for you
into a format compatible with a Windows computer.
What computer are you using, and have you tested it for interference
with your COM radios on all channels? I ask, because I'm going down
that same road with an 8" Lilliput display and an Epia single-board computer.
Dave Morris
At 09:10 AM 10/19/2006, you wrote:
>Still wondering if anyone has any experience with the Garmin GMX 30
>"Smart Antenna"? I need an XM receiver input to complete my
>homemade nav system. I'm using a mini-computer and a dedicated 8"
>LCD display along with AnywhereMap. The Weather Worx receiver is an
>obvious option, but I just ran across the GMX 30 which "appears" to
>have all the features I need for a lot less money. Am I missing
>anything here???
>
>Regards,
>
>Lee...
>
>
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Powering fuel injectors |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Bradburry" <bbradburry@allvantage.com>
I am using Z-19 as a guide for wiring my plane. The primary and
secondary fuel injectors are not powered through the ECU, just
controlled by it. I would like to power the injectors from the battery
buss.
Looking at Z-19, do I need to install a complete switch and diode system
for the injectors like is done for the fuel pump and ECU, or can I tie
on to the fuel pump OR the ECU system after either the switch (add a
separate diode) or after one of the diodes? There will be two DPDT
switches to disable the primary and secondary injectors after this
connection.
My panel is becoming somewhat switch festooned and I would like to keep
more switches to a minimum.
Thanks,
Bill B
Message 7
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| Subject: | Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of |
relays?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
We spent quite a bit of time trying to keep the panel of our Europa
Monowheel free of clutter.
There is a convenient piece of real estate between occupants in the
ceiling.
We are thinking pretty hard about making it a control panel and putting
small switches up there that would control coil of relays to run non
critical items, like position lights, strobes, landing light etc.
My partner has access to wire that is bout as thick as a model airplane
servo wire. They come in twisted pairs, from 3 pairs on up. It is probably
like the twisted wires you see inside computers, like the ones running
fans etc.
These wires would be running along side of headphone/mic wiring.
Does this sound acceptable?
Ron Parigoris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil |
of relays?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
Since it's going to be running right past your nose, what gasses does
its insulation put off if it overheats?
Dave Morris
At 12:22 PM 10/19/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
>We spent quite a bit of time trying to keep the panel of our Europa
>Monowheel free of clutter.
>
>There is a convenient piece of real estate between occupants in the
>ceiling.
>
>We are thinking pretty hard about making it a control panel and putting
>small switches up there that would control coil of relays to run non
>critical items, like position lights, strobes, landing light etc.
>
>My partner has access to wire that is bout as thick as a model airplane
>servo wire. They come in twisted pairs, from 3 pairs on up. It is probably
>like the twisted wires you see inside computers, like the ones running
>fans etc.
>
>These wires would be running along side of headphone/mic wiring.
>
>Does this sound acceptable?
>
>Ron Parigoris
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil |
of relays?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sgettings@cfl.rr.com
Answer: No. Calculate the correct size of the wire using the current
load of the circuit and don't forget appropriate fuses sized to protect
the wire. Use only quality aviation wire such as MIL-W-22759/16
available at any aircraft supply. This is not the place (is there any?)
to save money in an airplane.
Scott Gettings
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft
wire to coil of relays?
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X
> <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
> Since it's going to be running right past your nose, what gasses
> does
> its insulation put off if it overheats?
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 12:22 PM 10/19/2006, you wrote:
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> >
> >We spent quite a bit of time trying to keep the panel of our Europa
> >Monowheel free of clutter.
> >
> >There is a convenient piece of real estate between occupants in the
> >ceiling.
> >
> >We are thinking pretty hard about making it a control panel and
> putting>small switches up there that would control coil of relays
> to run non
> >critical items, like position lights, strobes, landing light etc.
> >
> >My partner has access to wire that is bout as thick as a model
> airplane>servo wire. They come in twisted pairs, from 3 pairs on
> up. It is probably
> >like the twisted wires you see inside computers, like the ones
> running>fans etc.
> >
> >These wires would be running along side of headphone/mic wiring.
> >
> >Does this sound acceptable?
> >
> >Ron Parigoris
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil of |
relays?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Hi Ron
I built an Europa and put several functions up in the overhead
area. Master, Strobes, running lights, alternator shut off and back up
alternator on, speaker, Head phones. I made a cover for the windshield
bow and ran most of the wires up the starboard half of the bow. It
strengthened the bow as I did it for both sides. It got rid of a bunch
of switches that are used only once to start the mission. That left only
relavent switches on the panel.
Jim Nelson
A058 Monowheel
Message 11
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| Subject: | Boots on Battery Contactor. |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
Bob and Listers.
With reference to the discussion that has been going on re this subject.
My starter and battery contactor both came from B & C. The battery contactor
has boots the starter contactor does not. Got them 12 months ago.
I emailed B & C about the boots on the battery contactor and got the
following reply.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The S701-1 and S701-2 are the same basic contactor. The coil is isolated
from the case, therefore the case need not be grounded. Both coil leads are
brought out to their respective #10 studs on the side of the cylinder. Note
that the pre-wired S701-1 coil receives its power through the Red jumper
from the battery post, and its ground through the Master Switch (which is
connected to the other #10 stud).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now, if I knew how the switches worked I would have been able to see that
the wire from the Master switch was a GND wire and not a +12V wire.
Which is different than the starter contactor, the wire from the start
switch is +12V and the starter contactor gets its GND from the
airframe.(Z13-8)
So no need to grind the boots off the battery contactor
Maybe this will clear it up.
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to coil |
of re...
In a message dated 10/19/2006 1:31:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes:
My partner has access to wire that is bout as thick as a model airplane
servo wire. They come in twisted pairs, from 3 pairs on up. It is probably
like the twisted wires you see inside computers, like the ones running
fans etc.
These wires would be running along side of headphone/mic wiring.
Does this sound acceptable?
Ron Parigoris
==============================
Ron:
I would say NO.
The reasons are:
1 - Cannot handle the current.
Even if the aircraft wire and your wire are the same gage the insulation
cannot handle the current.
2 - Abrasion - Aircraft wire has a high resistance to abrasion.
The thin stuff (R/C Servo wire) cannot handle it.
3 - Flammability - The wire you want to use does not meet flammability
requirements.
It probably does not meet the fume requirements either.
4 - I know, I know - you are thinking experimental.
Still not a reason to misplace good building practices or AC 43.13 2B
5 - Back to item #1 --- Cannot handle the current.
The R/C servo wire is about 22 AWG. It is in short runs. And has next to
zero current ... Miliamps!
Your position lights are probably in the area of 2 Amps Each ... And you have
three, so you are looking at about 6 Amps.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Acceptable to use thin non aircraft wire to |
coil of re...
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Hello Barry,
You might have noticed that Ron was asking about controlling the coil of a
relay with this lightweight wire. The current required for such a task is
likely less than 100mA.. VERY fine wire will handle that much current.
If adequate electrical protection for the wire is provided, there's not
much risk. Running this wire near the headset/mic wiring also probably
won't be much of an issue. Very little current will pass through the
control leads to a relay, so very little noise will be generated. The
items on your list wouldn't be switched at high frequency either, so that
helps too.
Conversely, if you run heavy enough wire to power the strobes up the
switch panel, and the wire is in the same bundle as the mic leads, I think
that might invite headaches.. The other items on the list aren't likely
to be a concern.
I'd say that for the non-critical stuff that Ron listed (all of it), the
most difficult issue is whether he can handle the mechanical end of the
installation.. It can be a real bear to find connectors that work well
with the extremely fine insulated wire. It can also be difficult to
provide adequate strain relief for such wire. As you mentioned, Barry,
abrasion resistance can be tough to address. For a small bundle of wire,
I wouldn't be concerned about smoke factor either. I mean, it's a plastic
airplane..
The other issue I'd mention is parts count. Several more wire connections
to make. Most common relays have moving parts and electrical contacts.
Any of these items can fail. For non-critical systems, it's not a big
deal safety-wise, but it will eventually lead to a higher hassle factor.
It would look pretty cool though.. :)
One final thought.. It might be tough to find test data for the proposed
fine wire.. But you can generate your own.. Burn some. Does it support
combustion? How easy is it to damage the insulation by abrasion?
Regards,
Matt-
> In a message dated 10/19/2006 1:31:39 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> rparigor@SUFFOLK.LIB.NY.US writes:
> My partner has access to wire that is bout as thick as a model airplane
servo wire. They come in twisted pairs, from 3 pairs on up. It is
probably
> like the twisted wires you see inside computers, like the ones running
fans etc.
>
> These wires would be running along side of headphone/mic wiring.
>
> Does this sound acceptable?
>
> Ron Parigoris
> ==============================
> Ron:
>
> I would say NO.
>
> The reasons are:
> 1 - Cannot handle the current.
> Even if the aircraft wire and your wire are the same gage the insulation
cannot handle the current.
>
> 2 - Abrasion - Aircraft wire has a high resistance to abrasion.
> The thin stuff (R/C Servo wire) cannot handle it.
>
> 3 - Flammability - The wire you want to use does not meet flammability
requirements.
> It probably does not meet the fume requirements either.
>
> 4 - I know, I know - you are thinking experimental.
> Still not a reason to misplace good building practices or AC 43.13 2B
>
> 5 - Back to item #1 --- Cannot handle the current.
> The R/C servo wire is about 22 AWG. It is in short runs. And has next
to
> zero current ... Miliamps!
> Your position lights are probably in the area of 2 Amps Each ... And you
have
> three, so you are looking at about 6 Amps.
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third
> time."
> Yamashiada
>
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