Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:51 AM - Re: New e-mail list: Mgl Avionics Stratomaster Users Group (Bob Verwey)
2. 05:08 AM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (N941WR)
3. 05:20 AM - Electroluminescent hum (N941WR)
4. 06:05 AM - Re: Electroluminescent hum (Chuck Jensen)
5. 06:59 AM - hot heatsinks (Brian Meyette)
6. 07:46 AM - Updating my Connection Manual? (Dr. Andrew Elliott)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (Dave N6030X)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: explosion proof fans (Eric M. Jones)
9. 08:17 AM - Quick_n_Dirty_Breakout (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 08:19 AM - DB connector pin remove/replace (Eric Parlow)
11. 08:27 AM - Re: hot heatsinks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
12. 08:29 AM - Re: Updating my Connection Manual? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
13. 09:09 AM - Re: Re: explosion proof fans (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
14. 09:21 AM - Re: Another Banning? (Dan Luer)
15. 09:36 AM - Re: explosion proof fans - intrinsically safe vs explosion proof (LarryRosen@comcast.net)
16. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: explosion proof fans (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
17. 11:53 AM - Re: hot heatsinks (Craig Payne)
18. 01:54 PM - Re: Electroluminescent hum (N941WR)
19. 01:59 PM - Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? (N941WR)
20. 02:21 PM - Re: Re: Electroluminescent hum (Chuck Jensen)
21. 03:20 PM - Re: DB connector pin remove/replace (Brian Meyette)
22. 04:42 PM - Re: hot heatsinks (Ralph Hoover)
23. 05:29 PM - Re: Another Banning? (Speedy11@aol.com)
24. 05:38 PM - Re: CHT/EGT instrument wire? (Speedy11@aol.com)
25. 06:24 PM - "Old Bobs" Bonanza? (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Chris_du_V=E9?=)
26. 06:27 PM - Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? (Frank Stringham)
27. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: Another Banning? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 06:49 PM - Re: Re: CHT/EGT instrument wire? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 06:50 PM - Re: "Old Bobs" Bonanza? (A DeMarzo)
30. 07:16 PM - "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 07:37 PM - Re: Dead Horses don't die... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
32. 08:02 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bill Boyd)
33. 08:18 PM - GMA340 Wiring (Chris Byrne)
34. 08:18 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? (Bill Boyd)
35. 08:22 PM - Re: Dead Horses don't die... (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
36. 09:02 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bob White)
37. 09:15 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Jim Baker)
38. 09:40 PM - Re: Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? (Craig Payne)
39. 09:41 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Dave N6030X)
Message 1
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| Subject: | New e-mail list: Mgl Avionics Stratomaster Users |
Group
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bob Verwey " <bonanza@vodamail.co.za>
Craig, I have visited the manufacturing facility here in South Africa and I can
tell you that the technology
is top notch, and very nice people to deal with. Hope u enjoy it. Glad to know
about the list.
Bob Verwey
Soon-to-be 'Enigma enhanced' A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On
Behalf Of Craig Payne
Sent: 26 October 2006 07:27 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New e-mail list: Mgl Avionics Stratomaster Users Group
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"
--> <craig@craigandjean.com>
I've just received my new "Enigma" EFIS/EMS and am interested in exchanging information
with other owners of
products from MGL Avionics "Stratomaster"
line. So I've started a group on Yahoo. The information on the list is below.
This is a user-to-user list and I have NO official affiliation with MGL. You can
read about their product line
here:
www.mglavionics.co.za
See you on the list!
-- Craig Payne
Here're the details on stratomaster_users_group:
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stratomaster_users_group
Group email address: stratomaster_users_group@yahoogroups.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR" <one4fun@mindspring.com>
The simple solution is to wire an audio jack on the panel and then just use whatever
MP3/iPod player you want.
This was easy enough to do with my stereo intercom.
As for powering the iPod, I put a two port power port (cigerette lighter jack)
from West marine in my panel.
The iPod Nano now goes up to 9 Gb with no hard drive.
As for using the AirGizmo docking station. It is a good idea but I suspect Apple
will change the form factor on the iPods again and then you are stuck with
a docking station that you can't get an iPod for.
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70277#70277
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electroluminescent hum |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR" <one4fun@mindspring.com>
I have installed an electroluminescent strip to light the switch panel in my RV-9
and this has introduced a low volume hum in the intercom.
Do any of you have a suggestion on how to eliminate this?
My set up is as follows: (And what I have tried)
- All grounds go to a common ground bus, mounted on the inside of the firewall,
which is bolted through the firewall to the engine ground bus and negative battery
cable.
- The positive lead from the EL power supply is wired in to an Aero Bob dimmer.
- I have removed power to the power supply and the hum goes away.
- I have moved the wires to the power supply
- I have wrapped the power supply in tinfoil
- I have temporarily installed a noise suppressor in the avionics bus feed line.
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70280#70280
Message 4
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| Subject: | Electroluminescent hum |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Bill,
I had a similar problem and applied two fixes. First, all wires were
returned to the same ground...not looping or daisy-chaining. Second,
the wires to/from the strip were aggressively twisted. I'm unsure which
was the final solution as both were applied when the problem was fixed.
It's a couple things to try.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N941WR
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent hum
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR"
--> <one4fun@mindspring.com>
I have installed an electroluminescent strip to light the switch panel
in my RV-9 and this has introduced a low volume hum in the intercom.
Do any of you have a suggestion on how to eliminate this?
My set up is as follows: (And what I have tried)
- All grounds go to a common ground bus, mounted on the inside of the
firewall, which is bolted through the firewall to the engine ground bus
and negative battery cable.
- The positive lead from the EL power supply is wired in to an Aero Bob
dimmer.
- I have removed power to the power supply and the hum goes away.
- I have moved the wires to the power supply
- I have wrapped the power supply in tinfoil
- I have temporarily installed a noise suppressor in the avionics bus
feed line.
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70280#70280
Message 5
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I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode package
design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the heatsink is
electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v connections, I have
covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple layers of liquid
insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks, and the +12v passing
through them, being exposed. It would defeat the purpose of the heatsink if
I cover them with liquid insulation. I was thinking perhaps I could build
a perforated Plexiglas or fiberglass box to put over them. What do you
electrical gurus think about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are
+12v?
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Updating my Connection Manual? |
I purchased the AeroElectric Connection manual a couple of years ago
(Revision 10B), but only now am getting ready to actually think about
designing and building the electrical system. I see many references in
the group here to updated figures and changed pages in the manual.
There is a lot of data on the articles download page at
aeroelectric.com, but there doesn't seem to be a central depository of
manual changes. At least, I can't find it. In fact, the link that is
supposed to take you to the 10->11 update only drops you back in the
articles page. Is there a straightforward way to get the updated pages
on-line?
Andy Elliott
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done |
this?
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
My little cheap Hypervox intercom has a separate "music input"
jack. My iPod Video plugs in there and works perfectly. The iPod
battery lasts long enough for most any cross country without being
plugged into any power. You only have to worry about the hard drive
if you're flying over 10,000 feet.
Dave Morris
At 07:06 AM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR" <one4fun@mindspring.com>
>
>The simple solution is to wire an audio jack on the panel and then
>just use whatever MP3/iPod player you want.
>
>This was easy enough to do with my stereo intercom.
>
>As for powering the iPod, I put a two port power port (cigerette
>lighter jack) from West marine in my panel.
>
>The iPod Nano now goes up to 9 Gb with no hard drive.
>
>As for using the AirGizmo docking station. It is a good idea but I
>suspect Apple will change the form factor on the iPods again and
>then you are stuck with a docking station that you can't get an iPod for.
>
>--------
>Bill
>RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70277#70277
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones" <emjones@charter.net>
Guys!.....whoa.
Far be it for me to be the voice of reason. (I was 18-years old in 1965...you get
the picture.) But this discussion of explosion proof painting is Way Overboard
and potentially dangerous. Here's why.
Copy and paste this search field into Google: paint explosion -"explosion proof"
-projector -tshirt -Perplex -sony -art -youtube -"you tube" -photoshop -"T-shirt"
The minus terms eliminate a lot of non-relevant stuff.
Then answer the following--
1) Do you have ANY knowledge of a painting accident/explosion with a setup similar
to what you intend to use?
2) Do published reports cite extenuating reasons for the accident--natural gas-fired
heaters, pools of solvent, toluene, open flame?
My concern is that list reader will be so afraid of fans that they may elect not
to risk using them. ANY box fan will be fine. The on/off switch is the only
sparker. Don't allow the booth to fill with a cloud of spray. Don't spray solvent
through the gun into the open. Use a rag.
Again. Be safe but not silly.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
---Leonard Cohen
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70334#70334
Message 9
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| Subject: | Quick_n_Dirty_Breakout |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Yesterday while working a problem on a bizjet, I needed
to get my 'scope on a couple of pins in a d-sub connector
while the system of interest was being aligned.
The nearest 9-pin, d-sub breakout box was 3/4 of a mile
away so I went to the junk bins and built a quick-n-dirty
9-pin, dsub-breakout harness. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Quck_n_Dirty_Breakout.jpg
This is at least one, inexpensive way to acquire test
tools for your devices fitted with d-sub connectors.
Digikey, Jameco, MP_Jones, Hosfelt, et. als. are good
sources for the "ribbon cable munchable connectors."
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 10
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| Subject: | DB connector pin remove/replace |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
What is the best way to remove and replace pins in a DB connector?
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: hot heatsinks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:56 AM 10/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode package
>design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the heatsink is
>electrically "hot". For all my other exposed +12v connections, I have
>covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple layers of liquid
>insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks, and the +12v passing
>through them, being exposed. It would defeat the purpose of the heatsink
>if I cover them with liquid insulation. I was thinking perhaps I could
>build a perforated Plexiglas or fiberglass box to put over them. What do
>you electrical gurus think about this situation with exposed heatsinks
>that are +12v?
>
>brian
The electronics industry has been insulating electrically "hot"
cases of components from their mounting surfaces for decades. See:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T063/0873.pdf
. . . where you will find a variety of semiconductor insulator
products used to electrically isolate but thermally heat sink
devices to their mounting surfaces.
Radio Shack has a few such products too that you may
find useful and/or adaptable to your needs.
See also:
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/heatsink.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/heatsinks.htm#8
http://sound.westhost.com/heatsinks.htm#9
http://www.bcae1.com/heatsink.htm
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Updating my Connection Manual? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:44 AM 10/26/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>I purchased the AeroElectric Connection manual a couple of years ago
>(Revision 10B), but only now am getting ready to actually think about
>designing and building the electrical system. I see many references in
>the group here to updated figures and changed pages in the manual. There
>is a lot of data on the articles download page at aeroelectric.com, but
>there doesn't seem to be a central depository of manual changes. At
>least, I can't find it. In fact, the link that is supposed to take you to
>the 10->11 update only drops you back in the articles page. Is there a
>straightforward way to get the updated pages on-line?
Yes, goto http://aeroelectric.com/
click on "What's New?"
. . . scroll down to "Download Updates" and
select documents of your choice.
Bob . . .
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My thoughts exactly....I have known a friend who when spraying could not
see the the other side of the room and you could see sparks in the motor
of his compressor and it did not ignite.
Now I wouldn't do that but it goes to show the amount of vapour you need
to make an explosive mixture is beyond what you will get with sparying,
as Eric says the box fan will be perfectly fine and keep the mixture
well below the LEL (lower explosive limit)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
--> <emjones@charter.net>
Guys!.....whoa.
Far be it for me to be the voice of reason. (I was 18-years old in
1965...you get the picture.) But this discussion of explosion proof
painting is Way Overboard and potentially dangerous. Here's why.
Copy and paste this search field into Google: paint explosion
-"explosion proof" -projector -tshirt -Perplex -sony -art -youtube -"you
tube" -photoshop -"T-shirt" The minus terms eliminate a lot of
non-relevant stuff.
Then answer the following--
1) Do you have ANY knowledge of a painting accident/explosion with a
setup similar to what you intend to use?
2) Do published reports cite extenuating reasons for the
accident--natural gas-fired heaters, pools of solvent, toluene, open
flame?
My concern is that list reader will be so afraid of fans that they may
elect not to risk using them. ANY box fan will be fine. The on/off
switch is the only sparker. Don't allow the booth to fill with a cloud
of spray. Don't spray solvent through the gun into the open. Use a rag.
Again. Be safe but not silly.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
---Leonard Cohen
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70334#70334
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Another Banning? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dan Luer <dluer2002@yahoo.com>
Right on, Bob!
You hit the nail on the head!
Good work.
Dan
--- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.
> Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:43 AM 10/25/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Uh oh! Sounds like the threat of yet another
> banning! You have to be
> >politically correct and a nice little boy to play
> here.
> >Who is next?
> >Stan Sutterfield
>
> How would you have it any different?
> Do you identify and/or agree with Barry's
> assessment of the membership's
> technical acumen? If you believe Barry's
> assessment to be accurate, then why are
> you hanging around here?
>
> If you enjoy being the target of such
> outpourings, may I suggest there are plenty
> of groups on Usenet when one may indulge
> in such flame-wars to their heart's content.
>
> If you're here to help us figure out how to
> improve on the best we know how to do, would
> you not agree that Barry's recent
> contributions are outside the scope and
> gentlemanly demeanor that characterizes the
> Matronics Lists? This isn't up to me Stan.
> It was this way before I got here and hopefully
> the way it will continue to be after I'm gone.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
> Web Forums!
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans - intrinsically safe vs |
explosion proof
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: LarryRosen@comcast.net
If you believe you have or could have an explosive atmosphere (above the LEL and
below UEL for the solvents) there is a lot more you need to be concerned about
besides just the fan. All the electrical switches, outlets, lights, radio
and any other electrical device in the area need to be either explosion-proof
or intrinsically safe. Not a trivial task and not inexpensive.
Larry Rosen
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: user01 <nightware@sasktel.net>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: user01 <nightware@sasktel.net>
>
> Doug, I basically agree with your statement about ratings for equipment in
> the hazardous area, but I would go on a bit further.
> Please excuse me for being picky about the definitions.
>
> There are two ways to do electrical things in hazardous areas -
> intrinsically safe (I.S.), and explosion-proof.
> Both attempt to avoid igniting the hazardous atmosphere around the device.
>
> I.S. systems limit available energy in the system (total connected
> capacitance, allowed voltage, non-incendive barriers etc) and I've used IS
> with instrumentation - switches, transmitters, communication networks, etc.
> There are many constraints here, including barriers in the non-hazardous
> area, and segregation of wiring; if I was instrumenting an industrial paint
> booth with pressure, airflow, temperature and other instrumentation, I would
> consider IS equipment. As far as I know, there are no IS motors
> commercially available. A single device wouldn't be IS by itself, but
> would have to be part of a designe IS system.
>
> Explosion-proof equipment allows for higher energy levels (both voltage and
> current) and prevents ignition by using seals or wide machined flanges on
> doors and housings to allow for cooling of the flame front before it exits
> the enclosure. The enclosures are usually built quite heavy, as they may
> have an ignition internally to survive, without allowing the flame front to
> ignite the surrounding environment.
>
> To select motors for use in a hazardous location, I look for TEXP (totally
> enclosed, explosion proof). In a fan application, air friction may be
> generating static electricity on the fan blades and the ducting material.
> When I was initially looking for a rated fan, I found words like
> "non-igniting fan and housing" along with spectacular price tags.
>
> I believe that you are partially correct regarding placement of the fan on
> the supply side of the booth. This placement could reduce the hazard if:
> 1. you do not dead-head the fan (any in-line filters always allow
> significant flow), which would allow booth contents to migrate to the fan.
> 2. you never have the fan stop while the hazard is present. If it
> stops, you shouldn't restart it, because the motor can be considered to be
> in the hazardous area once the flow stops.
>
> Mitigation of the risk may be possible by using long supply ducting, and
> your suggestion about using the fan on the supply side - this is a question
> for an insurance inspector; I don't know, myself. The fan would have to be
> up-sized a bit to address the additional pressure drop from the longer
> ductwork. In an industrial plant, I wouldn't use a fan that wasn't rated
> (fan, motor, and ductwork) for the specific hazardous area, and my
> experience is that the engineer would be pretty clear about checking that.
> There would also almost certainly be explosion doors and anti-backdraft
> dampers in the ducting system as well.
>
> Another method is to use a belt or chain driven fan, with the motor outside
> the duct in the non-hazardous environment. I think I saw that in a Sam
> James painting video, but I may be remembering incorrectly. If using a belt
> drive, I would pay some extra attention to safety grounding to avoid static
> and sparks.
>
> I think that your comment on inlet and outlet placement was good. I went
> with a full height inlet (three furnace filters high on the door) and a
> floor-level exhaust, and an approximately 8x8 ft temporary booth. I am
> still looking for a reasonably priced TEXP motor.
>
> For further information on IS equipment, there are good references on a
> number of system vendor websites. Here are a couple:
> http://www.omega.com/techref/intrinsic.html
> http://www.setra.com/tra/app/app_exp.htm
>
> The second reference has brief discussion of IS vs explosion-proof.
>
> My comments do not constitute advocacy or approval of a particular design.
> I strongly suggest that anyone considering their own hazardous area
> electrical design should seek the opinion of a professional engineer
> licenced to practice in their area, and consider whether your insurance
> would cover your loss in the event of an incident and related claim.
>
> Howard McKay
> RV8A, empennage
> Saskatoon, Canada
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Windhorn" <N1DeltaWhiskey@comcast.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: explosion proof fans
>
>
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Doug Windhorn"
> > <N1DeltaWhiskey@comcast.net>
> >
> > Tom,
> >
> > Have you considered taking the fan out of the equation?
> >
> > I wouldn't consider an electrical device to be safe in a volatiles laden
> > atmosphere unless it is UL Listed or FM Approved as "intrinsically safe"
> > in accordance with the National Electrical Code. As already related,
> > paint booth explosions do occur - the company I work for (or its insuring
> > predecessors) probably paid a few buck on that IH explosion.
> >
> > Volatiles have what are known as Upper and Lower Explosive Limits (UEL,
> > LEL) when mixed with air. Explosions will only occur when the volatiles
> > content is within those ranges with the severest explosions occurring at
> > the right stoichiometric ratio. Determining whether you will get into
> > these ranges or not is a rather complicated analysis based on knowing the
> > number of room air changes per minute, and the rate of release of the
> > volatiles into the room environment, the latter being more difficult to
> > determine. The more common method of doing this is taking empirical
> > measurements with a volatiles detector. Obviously, all of this can become
> > moot if there is no ignition source present. Static potential from the
> > plastic or other sources will be reduced with higher humidity, do don't
> > spray on a cold dry day.
> >
> > Consider also, that most volatiles are heavier than air, so where you
> > place your air supply and exhaust is just, if not more, relevant than what
> > you are using to move fresh air through the system.
> >
> > To take the fan out of the equation, consider using it to push air into
> > the booth rather than to exhaust it out. Install an air plenum on top of
> > your booth into which your fan blows. Provide large openings (to slow the
> > air movement) between the plenum and the booth with filters to remove dust
> > that might be drawn in. Exhaust the air from floor level.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Doug Windhorn
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
> > To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, 22 October, 2006 12:49
> > Subject: AeroElectric-List: explosion proof fans
> >
> >
> >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
> >>
> >> An exhaust fan on a home made paint booth has the potential to spark an
> >> explosion if you get the right mixture range of a flammable solvent in
> >> the air and some sparks.
> >> However, virtually all consumer fans use brushless AC motors (don't
> >> they?). And, with the fan mounted right on the motor shaft, there's no
> >> belt to generate static (though I guess there are other ways to generate
> >> static). So, is such a fan suitable to use to exhaust a paint booth?
> >>
> >> Also, Does any one have any idea of what fan capacity is needed for an
> >> RV-sized paint booth?
> >>
> >> --
> >> Tom S., RV-6A
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: explosion proof fans |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
If it was that thick, he may have actually been too rich. It really is
a narrow mixture for it to explode. Still wouldn't recommend it though.
Michael Sausen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George
--> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
My thoughts exactly....I have known a friend who when spraying could not
see the the other side of the room and you could see sparks in the motor
of his compressor and it did not ignite.
Now I wouldn't do that but it goes to show the amount of vapour you need
to make an explosive mixture is beyond what you will get with sparying,
as Eric says the box fan will be perfectly fine and keep the mixture
well below the LEL (lower explosive limit)
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
M. Jones
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: explosion proof fans
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
--> <emjones@charter.net>
Guys!.....whoa.
Far be it for me to be the voice of reason. (I was 18-years old in
1965...you get the picture.) But this discussion of explosion proof
painting is Way Overboard and potentially dangerous. Here's why.
Copy and paste this search field into Google: paint explosion
-"explosion proof" -projector -tshirt -Perplex -sony -art -youtube -"you
tube" -photoshop -"T-shirt" The minus terms eliminate a lot of
non-relevant stuff.
Then answer the following--
1) Do you have ANY knowledge of a painting accident/explosion with a
setup similar to what you intend to use?
2) Do published reports cite extenuating reasons for the
accident--natural gas-fired heaters, pools of solvent, toluene, open
flame?
My concern is that list reader will be so afraid of fans that they may
elect not to risk using them. ANY box fan will be fine. The on/off
switch is the only sparker. Don't allow the booth to fill with a cloud
of spray. Don't spray solvent through the gun into the open. Use a rag.
Again. Be safe but not silly.
"Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in."
---Leonard Cohen
--------
Eric M. Jones
www.PerihelionDesign.com
113 Brentwood Drive
Southbridge, MA 01550
(508) 764-2072
emjones@charter.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70334#70334
Message 17
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Better to electrically (but not thermally) isolate the diodes from the heat
sink. This is common practice. Search the archives for "mica". Here is a
quote from a message I sent back in January:
"Electrical isolation is done with thin plates placed between the chip and
the heat sink. In the old days the plate was mica. Heat sink "grease" is
used to ensure a good thermal bond between all the layers. There are newer
insulators that don't require the grease. If you are using metal nuts and
screws to bolt the chip down then you need special non-conducting shoulder
washers to keep the nuts and screws from forming electrical contact between
the chip's case and the heat sink."
-- Craig
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent hum |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR" <one4fun@mindspring.com>
Chuck,
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I had already done both of those things.
I might try re-routing the wires between the power converter and the strips. (I'm
running duel strips since I have a center mounted throttle quadrant in my
-9.)
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70417#70417
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Ipod (MP3 player) Integration- anybody done this? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR" <one4fun@mindspring.com>
I thought this schematic (http://www.repucci.com/bill/electrical/audio%20connections%202.jpg) might be of some interest to those of you connecting multiple things together in a VFR ship.
Of course, it requires iCom radio, with its three mono inputs, to work. I just
wish there were a better way to connect the Garmin 396/496 to the audio system
rather than through its stereo connection. This would allow me to get terrain
(and others?) warnings while listening to iPod. This shouldn't really be an
issue in a VFR ship. At least I hope so.
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70421#70421
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent hum |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
I was running dual strips as well as a number of instrument lights. The
first installation groups the grounds together from a few of the items,
then ran one long lead over to the ground on the converter. Running all
of the grounds back to the converter...as well as doing a Mr. Twister on
them, was the fix. Nonetheless, fiddling with them can sometimes affect
a cure, just like fiddling with them will sometimes initiate the
problem. There is a lot of black magic involved in this stuff (at least
for us uneducated electrical types!).
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
N941WR
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:52 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Electroluminescent hum
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "N941WR"
--> <one4fun@mindspring.com>
Chuck,
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I had already done both of those
things.
I might try re-routing the wires between the power converter and the
strips. (I'm running duel strips since I have a center mounted throttle
quadrant in my -9.)
--------
Bill
RV-9 (Working on the finishing kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70417#70417
Message 21
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| Subject: | DB connector pin remove/replace |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2@starband.net>
With a DB pin tool, like so:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102600
HTH,
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Parlow
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: DB connector pin remove/replace
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow"
<ericparlow@hotmail.com>
What is the best way to remove and replace pins in a DB connector?
--
--
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: hot heatsinks |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ralph Hoover <hooverra@verizon.net>
Brian,
One solution is to electrically isolate the diode from the heatsink.
Aavid Thermolloy, Bergquist and others all make insulation for this
purpose. Try DigiKey.
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T063/0872.pdf
Brian Meyette wrote:
>
> I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode
> package design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the
> heatsink is electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v
> connections, I have covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple
> layers of liquid insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks,
> and the +12v passing through them, being exposed. It would defeat the
> purpose of the heatsink if I cover them with liquid insulation. I
> was thinking perhaps I could build a perforated Plexiglas or
> fiberglass box to put over them. What do you electrical gurus think
> about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are +12v?
>
> brian
>
> http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Another Banning? |
Nope. I don't agree with Barry's rant. He was grossly off track. I had no
idea what he was talking about during most of it. I certainly don't remember
his musings of earlier. I doubt anyone does - except Barry.
Regardless, I also don't agree to the banning of people from this forum.
Barry contributes significantly to my learning and I like to hear his
comments. If I don't like what I hear, I move on to the next individual's comments.
I didn't like Barry's recent rant. I moved on to the next entry.
Paul and George also contributed significantly to the discussions. But,
we'll never know what their latest contributions might entail.
I guess we'll all have to live with the bannings until/unless we start a
blog/forum of our own.
Regarding your last paragraph, I didn't realize there was a time before you
got here. I must have joined after you arrived.
Stan
Do not archive
How would you have it any different?
Do you identify and/or agree with Barry's
assessment of the membership's
technical acumen? If you believe Barry's
assessment to be accurate, then why are
you hanging around here?
If you enjoy being the target of such
outpourings, may I suggest there are plenty
of groups on Usenet when one may indulge
in such flame-wars to their heart's content.
If you're here to help us figure out how to
improve on the best we know how to do, would
you not agree that Barry's recent
contributions are outside the scope and
gentlemanly demeanor that characterizes the
Matronics Lists? This isn't up to me Stan.
It was this way before I got here and hopefully
the way it will continue to be after I'm gone.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: CHT/EGT instrument wire? |
Bob,
This was superb info! This is why people come to this forum.
It's worth putting up with the other "stuff" in order to mine nuggets like
this.
Stan Sutterfield
Do not archive
Okay, I checked the wiring diagram for the FlightDEK_D-180 at:
http://tinyurl.com/y69fr6
. . . where on page 2-6 we see a clear intention
on the part of Dynon that wires from the various EGT/CHT thermocouples
be run as contiguous thermocouple wire from the engine all the way to
the 25-Pin EMS connector on the rear of the panel mounted unit. This
is the right way to treat thermocouple wires. As a review, I'll
recommend you get a copy of:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/excerpt.pdf
You can order thermocouple wire that matches the engine sensors
(type J and type K wire) from
http://www.ethermocouple.com/ppt/ppttc_XC_J_TC_WIRE.asp
and
http://www.ethermocouple.com/ppt/ppttc_XC_K_TC_WIRE.asp
There's a "part number builder" feature on each of these
pages. May I recommend the TT-J-20S and TT-K-20S wires
as the easiest to use. You can order 25' lengths of these
wires for about $1.00/ft.
Also, consider using machined male D-sub pins like the S604P
devices shown at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/s604.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/RCT-3_Male.jpg
and applied with a low cost tool like
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/Crimp_Tools/rct-3.jpg
Pins and tools available from either Steinair at:
http://steinair.com/
or B&C at
http://bandc.biz
Using the multi-conductor copper cables to extend your
engine thermocouples from a terminal block is a good way
to introduce considerable temperature measurement error
into the instrument's readings.
Message 25
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| Subject: | "Old Bobs" Bonanza? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Chris_du_V=E9?= <chrisduve@netspace.net.au>
I was reading AvWeb this week and their weekly "Picture of the Week"
column featured this photograph/caption.
http://www.avweb.com/newspics/potw04_1243.jpg
Is this aircraft owned by our highly esteemed contributor to this
very list?
A lovely photograph that, if larger, I would love to have as
background on my computer!
Chris
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? |
Bob and others
I need your help in following / understanding the attached diagram.
According to the folks at trio the 5 and 6 leads from the trio servo are
wired to the commons of the dpdt relay. The purpose of this set up is to
disconnect the auto trim when the manual trim is actuated. Now the
questions: (If the relay I am using has 1 and 2 as NC, 3 and 4 NO, 5 and 6
as the commons, and 7 and 8 the coils). What is the purpose of the bridge
rectifier? When the relay is in the NC position is the manual trim over ride
on or is the trio auto trim on? What wiring diagram would represent this set
up better than the attached diagram? HELP.......LOST in a wiring maze again.
I know......I know sweet just to all my poor chemistry student that I
couln't see why they copuldn't understand quantum mechanics!
TIA
Frank @ sgu and slc
_________________________________________________________________
Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
Microsoft Office Live
http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Another Banning? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:28 PM 10/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Nope. I don't agree with Barry's rant. He was grossly off track.
>I had no idea what he was talking about during most of it.
>I certainly don't remember his musings of earlier. I doubt
>anyone does - except Barry. Regardless, I also don't agree to
>the banning of people from this forum.
They've been asked to leave other forums too Stan.
>Barry contributes significantly to my learning and I like
>to hear his comments. If I don't like what I hear, I
>move on to the next individual's comments. I didn't like
>Barry's recent rant. I moved on to the next entry.
>Paul and George also contributed significantly to the discussions.
>But, we'll never know what their latest contributions might entail.
So anyone can say anything and it's okay with you
as long as they sprinkle the occasional "nugget"
of good stuff . . . and how do you KNOW it's
good stuff? Not once did and of the gentlemen in question
explain their respective rants in simple-ideas
that anyone can grasp, appreciate and use based
on personal understanding. If you find it sufficient
to take their advice as-is, you're certainly free
to communicate with them directly . . . but if
they choose to pour out "data" without also being
a teacher, then there's no basis for deducing that
their offerings are anything but self serving
propaganda.
>I guess we'll all have to live with the bannings
>until/unless we start a blog/forum of our own.
You don't read well sir . . . nobody has been
"banned" . . . but I'm told that that IS an
option. But everything from giant corporations to
new religions have been splintered off from other
groups. As I mentioned, Usenet is ready, willing
and able to accept whatever form and function
of words you desire. Anyone can start a Usenet
group and nobody here will discourage you
from doing it if you find the atmosphere here
stifling or oppressive.
>Regarding your last paragraph, I didn't realize there
>was a time before you got here. I must have joined after
>you arrived.
The Matronics forums existed long before the
AeroElectric-List. Read the periodically published
FAQ and mission statement published by Matt
and you'll understand that my simple request for
Barry to comport himself in the manner of a gentleman
comes from Matronics List Policies.
My question to you sir still stands. Is it
your mission here to help us improve on the
best we know how to do . . . or to belabor
the fact that an unruly participant got
his wrists slapped?
Bob . . .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: CHT/EGT instrument wire? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:36 PM 10/26/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Bob,
>This was superb info! This is why people come to this forum.
>It's worth putting up with the other "stuff" in order to mine nuggets like
>this.
>Stan Sutterfield
Thank you. It's my reason for being here. It's also offered
as an example of what we should all strive for in being
useful participants on the List. This illustrates why it's
important that we not have to "mine" nuggets from a pile of
tailings.
If you invest the $time$ to occupy a seat in a classroom,
you EXPECT to get your $times$ worth without having to sift
for gems amongst mud and gravel. I can see no downside
to striving for that same kind of atmosphere here on the
List. I.e, gravel and mud throwers are not needed or welcome.
Bob . . .
Do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: "Old Bobs" Bonanza? |
I think that one belongs to Young Old Bob, or Old Bob Jr.
On 10/26/2006 8:23:33 PM, Chris du V=E9 (chrisduve@netspace.net.au)
wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by:
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Chris_du_V=E9?
> <chrisduve@netspace.net.au>
>
> I was reading AvWeb this week and their weekly "Picture of the Week"
> column featured this photograph/caption.
>
> http://www.avweb.com/newspics/potw04_1243.jpg
>
> Is this aircraft owned by our highly esteemed contributor to this
> very list?
>
> A lovely photograph that, if larger, I would love to have as
> background on my computer!
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
One of my favorite fun reads in the business is "Nuts and Volts"
magazine:
http://www.nutsvolts.com/
The latest issue features an article about the birth of the
triode vacuum tube where for the first time, a relatively
unspectacular control of electrons crossing the evacuated space
between cathode and anode enclosed in a vacuum was accomplished.
The device had GAIN. This meant it could amplify and oscillate.
Radio, long distance telephones and talking movies would rise
quickly to great heights on this invention that also planted seeds
for the amazing feats of function and miniaturization that we
enjoy today.
Every week I get journals in the mail that speak of whizzy new
devices cast in silicon . . . Unfortunately, we're so busy
certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
them any more.
I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
images at:
http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:06 PM 10/22/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Apologies to belabor these two points, but another builder I know is
>dead-set on the ol' Cessna Split Master switch and a separate Avionics
>master. As a long-time Nuckollhead, my plane is faithfully a Z-11, and
>electrically all runs, all hits, no errors. My protestations have come to
>naught despite my best explanations.
>
>The Avionics Master won't die because so many radio makers still insist on
>them by inclusion in installation schematics and threats of no warranty
>coverage if not used. (I know this was true of Microair when I installed
>mine, and I have requests out to GRT, Trutrak and Garmin for
>clarification) I suppose one could feed avionics by connecting a separate
>fuse block to the normal supply side of the e-bus through an "Avionics
>Master Switch" and accept the single-point failure potential.
Not necessary. Run your "critical" items from the e-bus and
put a switch in series with the e-bus normal feed path diode
and call it the "avionics master switch". I will write to
Trutrak and Garmin and inquire as to any special knowledge
they have for the evils that lurk on the bus which are held
at bay by the avionics master switch. Anyone laying any bets?
When I wrote the article on avionics master switches over
10 years ago, it had to be noticed by about 130,000 aviation
types all over the world. NOT ONE individual contacted me
to explain where I was wrong or even to complain about
going against tradition.
I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
(20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
But that still begs the question:
Assume a radio IS vulnerable to start-up transients,
where is it written that it's better to have ONE switch
turn off all vulnerable radios as opposed to turning each
vulnerable radio off with its own power switch? Just because
there's only ONE switch to 'remember' doesn't make it any
more likely to be operated at the right times. Failures to
observe checklists have been demonstrated innumerable times.
So if you can follow a checklist, turn off devices for which
there are concerns. If you can't follow a checklist, then
no number of switches installed anywhere will be a 100%
prophylactic against gremlins that go spark in the dark.
>
>On the split master side, I could propose using the switch, provided
>crowbar protection and low-voltage monitor/annunciation are employed.
>
>In order to offer guidance, I have searched the A-list archives &
>AeroElectric Connection website for supporting documentation and found
>Bob's article on Avionics Masters, but not the critical arguments I have
>seen for the past six or seven years supporting avoidance of the split
>master. Can someone please point to specific references?
There is nothing functionally wrong with the split-rocker
switch. It was cleverly conceived when aviation decided to
eliminate the possiblity of leaving an alternator on-line
without also having a battery . . . but being able to run
the battery by itself too.
The S700-2-10 shown in most of the Z-figure master switches
duplicates the split rocker functionality: OFF/BATTERY/BAT+ALT
The split rocker has been elevated to a position of sainthood.
I've seen all manner of toggle and rocker switch installations
on OBAM aircraft where that infernal split-rocker has been
enshrined in a place of prominence on the panel . . . even tho
it doesn't look like any of the other switches.
The point is, if you can purchase the progressive transfer,
ON-ON-ON functionality in the switch style of your choice, then
you need not genuflect before the alter of split-rocker switches
from the certified world. The 2-10 switching protocols do the same
thing in what ever style switch you choose.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>From the Mixonline link:
>>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
amplification device was born.<<
Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
-Bill B
<should get my Hyundai and the old alternator back tomorrow>
On 10/26/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> One of my favorite fun reads in the business is "Nuts and Volts"
> magazine:
>
> http://www.nutsvolts.com/
>
> The latest issue features an article about the birth of the
> triode vacuum tube where for the first time, a relatively
> unspectacular control of electrons crossing the evacuated space
> between cathode and anode enclosed in a vacuum was accomplished.
>
> The device had GAIN. This meant it could amplify and oscillate.
> Radio, long distance telephones and talking movies would rise
> quickly to great heights on this invention that also planted seeds
> for the amazing feats of function and miniaturization that we
> enjoy today.
>
> Every week I get journals in the mail that speak of whizzy new
> devices cast in silicon . . . Unfortunately, we're so busy
> certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
> them any more.
>
> I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
> long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
> folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
> become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
> associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
> EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
>
> Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
> back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
> images at:
>
> http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
>
> also:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
>
> http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
>
> http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
>
> http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 33
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Byrne" <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
Listers
I had my radio looms made for me. As well as the +12V for the GMA340 I have
1 or maybe 2 wires marked GMA340 lighting +12.
Do I wire these direct to power or do they need to go to a lighting dimmer.
Was hoping the GMA 340 had its own internal lighting dimmer.
>From memory I also have the same situation with the GTX327
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
Interesting; I've never seen a relay with a polarity preference for
the K-coil, but this circuit seems designed to feed electrons into
only one end of the coil regardless of manual trim voltage polarity to
the motor. I thought magnets was magnets :-)
Bob, what's up here?
-Bill B / Trio user, not yet with auto-trim
On 10/26/06, Frank Stringham <fstringham@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Bob and others
>
> I need your help in following / understanding the attached diagram.
> According to the folks at trio the 5 and 6 leads from the trio servo are
> wired to the commons of the dpdt relay. The purpose of this set up is to
> disconnect the auto trim when the manual trim is actuated. Now the
> questions: (If the relay I am using has 1 and 2 as NC, 3 and 4 NO, 5 and 6
> as the commons, and 7 and 8 the coils). What is the purpose of the bridge
> rectifier? When the relay is in the NC position is the manual trim over ride
> on or is the trio auto trim on? What wiring diagram would represent this set
> up better than the attached diagram? HELP.......LOST in a wiring maze again.
> I know......I know sweet just to all my poor chemistry student that I
> couln't see why they copuldn't understand quantum mechanics!
>
> TIA
>
> Frank @ sgu and slc
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
> Microsoft Office Live
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
In a message dated 10/26/2006 9:42:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
nuckollsr@cox.net writes:
Anyone laying any bets?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Here's response from GRT- not sure I unnerstand it, tho- I have heard that
main complaint is that voltage sag whilst firing up the Lycosaur will cause
Horizons to re-boot. Doesn't seem like a big problem since by the time you get
to
run-up all is back to normal. Original request below their response- GRT sez:
"EIS on during engine start is correct, the EFIS system should be off during
engine start. The EFIS system has 3 power bus inputs so you could connect
DU-1 input 1 to your Endurance bus and input 2 to your Main bus. You would
connect DU-2 input 1 to your main bus and input 2 to your Endurance bus. Input
3
on both units could go to a small back up battery. Your AHRS inputs would be
the same as DU-1. There are many ways to go on this."
----- Original Message -----
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: Avionics Bus
Hi Mark- apologies for bugging you again, but in planning my new system (Dual
Horizons, EIS, Garmin stack) it is my wish to utilize AeroElectric Connection
architecture and connect my GRT equipment, an SL30 and GTX327 transponder to
my Endurance bus. A GNS 430 will be supported from my Main bus. This is to
eliminate single point of failure of an Avionics bus switch for all radios.
What is GRTs position on this, and is it a bad idea to have the Horizons on
during engine start? I have the EIS on my plane wired in this fashion (on during
engine start) and it has always performed perfectly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
And here is response from Garmin- again, original request below:
"Garmin recommends that these units no be power up during engine start to
prevent voltage spike damage. "
George Koelsch
Garmin International
Aviation Field Service Engineer
george.koelsch@garmin.com
913-397-8200
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Phillips [mailto:fiveonepw@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 10:10 PM
Subject: Sales support request for GNS 430
Inquiry:
I have on order from an avionics installer a GNS430, SL30 and GTX327- I wish
to avoid a separate avionics bus and plan to power these from my endurance
bus fuseblock, which is hot whenever the master contactor is on per Bob
Nuckolls' AeroElectric Connection system architecture. Is this acceptable
or must I make sure these units are not powered up during engine start?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This......horse........is.........still............kicking!
Thanks again, Bob!
Mark Phillips
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
Hi Bill,
The description is OK. Increased current thru the vacuum tube causes
an increased voltage drop across the plate load. Plate voltage is the
supply voltage minus the load resistor voltage, so an increased current
results in a reduced plate voltage and vice versa.
Bob W.
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:01:22 -0400
"Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>
> >From the Mixonline link:
>
> >>In this case, a fairly minute signal (voltage) at the grid would
> result in huge changes in the plate voltage, and the first
> amplification device was born.<<
>
> Um, that would be huge changes in the plate _current_, wouldn't it?
> Voltage doesn't sag much with a well-regulated plate supply.
>
> Voltage changes occur across the plate _load R_, true...
>
> Be careful what you read on the 'net, right?
>
> -Bill B
>
> <should get my Hyundai and the old alternator back tomorrow>
>
> On 10/26/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> >
> > One of my favorite fun reads in the business is "Nuts and Volts"
> > magazine:
> >
> > http://www.nutsvolts.com/
> >
> > The latest issue features an article about the birth of the
> > triode vacuum tube where for the first time, a relatively
> > unspectacular control of electrons crossing the evacuated space
> > between cathode and anode enclosed in a vacuum was accomplished.
> >
> > The device had GAIN. This meant it could amplify and oscillate.
> > Radio, long distance telephones and talking movies would rise
> > quickly to great heights on this invention that also planted seeds
> > for the amazing feats of function and miniaturization that we
> > enjoy today.
> >
> > Every week I get journals in the mail that speak of whizzy new
> > devices cast in silicon . . . Unfortunately, we're so busy
> > certifying airplanes these days, we don't have time to engineer
> > them any more.
> >
> > I have hopes of rectifying that where I work but the odds are
> > long and the time ever shorter. In the mean time, the things you
> > folks are building, buying and incorporating into your airplanes has
> > become the leading edge of the future. There's no stigma
> > associated with calling ones self "amateur" . . . obviously
> > EVERY new idea was conceived and promulgated by amateurs.
> >
> > Anyone interested in a little light reading and a short trip
> > back in time is encouraged to peek at a series of historical
> > images at:
> >
> > http://www.cedmagic.com/history/deforest-audion.html
> >
> > also:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_tube
> >
> > http://mixonline.com/TECnology-Hall-of-Fame/leedeforest-triode-vacuum-090106/
> >
> > http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
> >
> > http://www.ee.umd.edu/~taylor/Electrons3.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> > < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> > < with experiment. >
> > < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
> http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
This is in no way intended to demean or diminish De Forest's
accomplishments, however......
"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the
controlling gravitational field of the moon.... I am bold enough to
say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of
all future advances."
- Dr. Lee De Forest, famous engineer, 1957
I would add that perhaps one should stick to topics they know
well. Dr. De Forest obviously understood the electron's basic
uses far better than he did the future use of those same
"particles" and the devices they would spawn, enabling the very
thing he predicted would not happen to become possible. It's
always a point of some amazement to me just how limited a
capacity most people have in understanding what the future
holds. As for me, I wish I knew something......anything......
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-RE trio auto trim wiring ???? |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Craig Payne" <craig@craigandjean.com>
Well, the design does supply suppression diodes across the coil no matter
what the input polarity. Not certain that was Trio's intention.
-- Craig
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
Yeah, and Bill Gates once said "640K will be enough for ANY program".
Dave Morris
At 11:14 PM 10/26/2006, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker@msbit.net>
>
> > http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/~eugeniik/history/deforest.htm
>
>This is in no way intended to demean or diminish De Forest's
>accomplishments, however......
>
>"To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the
>controlling gravitational field of the moon.... I am bold enough to
>say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of
>all future advances."
>
>- Dr. Lee De Forest, famous engineer, 1957
>
>I would add that perhaps one should stick to topics they know
>well. Dr. De Forest obviously understood the electron's basic
>uses far better than he did the future use of those same
>"particles" and the devices they would spawn, enabling the very
>thing he predicted would not happen to become possible. It's
>always a point of some amazement to me just how limited a
>capacity most people have in understanding what the future
>holds. As for me, I wish I knew something......anything......
>
>
>Jim Baker
>580.788.2779
>Elmore City, OK
>
>
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