---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/28/06: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:57 AM - Re: Dead Horses......Split Rockers (Dustin Paulson) 2. 05:52 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Eric Newton) 3. 07:29 AM - Re: hot heatsinks (Tim & Diane Shankland) 4. 02:37 PM - Back-up Alternator (JACK LOCKAMY) 5. 03:20 PM - Re:Microair 769 (ron dewees) 6. 06:35 PM - Re: Back-up Alternator (Robert Sultzbach) 7. 06:37 PM - Re: Back-up Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 07:56 PM - Re: Re:Microair 769 (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 9. 09:49 PM - Re: Re:Microair 769 (jerb) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:07 AM PST US From: "Dustin Paulson" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Dead Horses......Split Rockers ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:01 AM PST US From: "Eric Newton" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor. Thanks for any advise. Eric Newton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Howell" Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" > > > Hello, > > I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor > from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the > main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one > glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to > +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In > the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load > and > see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be > nothing > that is sending a high current spike thru the cable. > > I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:47 AM PST US From: Tim & Diane Shankland Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: hot heatsinks Brian, I had the same concern, attached is a picture of my solution. I would be concerned if you are covering the heat sink with a rubber boot or insulation because that would greatly reduce its effectiveness. The picture is of a plastic cover that protects both the heat sink and the connections from accidental contact with other conductors. Tim Shankland Brian Meyette wrote: > I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode > package design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the > heatsink is electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v > connections, I have covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple > layers of liquid insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks, > and the +12v passing through them, being exposed. It would defeat the > purpose of the heatsink if I cover them with liquid insulation. I > was thinking perhaps I could build a perforated Plexiglas or > fiberglass box to put over them. What do you electrical gurus think > about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are +12v? > > brian > > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:00 PM PST US From: "JACK LOCKAMY" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, internally regulated alternator, failure! (The first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a cooling blast tube aimed at the rear of the alternator and still don't know why these alternators keep failing. Since it was a NAPA rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684 with a three-year warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced today for FREE! I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally at night, For this reason, I am concerned with alternator failures and have decided to install a back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on my Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine.... Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I normally run with about 14-18 AMP loads and figure I need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10 AMPS but lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up alternator for my electrical load during night/IFR flight. Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 architecture with a Van's 60-AMP internally regulated alternator. If I purchase and install the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the Dynon EMS-10 firewall mounted shunt or connect the SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680 battery directly in case the Van's recommended alternator takes another crap? Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able to determine if there was a problem with their wiring directions or if the #14684 alternators were the problem here. BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying for approx. 1:45 minutes after the alternator failed. I was using flight following as usual and informed them that I had an alternator failure and would prefer to use the IDENT button on my King KT-76A transponder to acknowledge freq changes and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice in the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. This worked extremely well and I wasn't forced to use un-necessary volts using my transmit button on Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for almost 2-hours and I landed with 11.5 volts in the PC-680. NOTE: I was prepared to squawk 7600 and had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No Radio), I would squawk 7600, and would be expecting light signals (flashing green light?) from Camarillo Tower for landing permission. If you inform Center of your problem, they will assist. When I first informed Albuquerque Center of my alternator problem, the controller asked if I was declaring an emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough battery voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I was switched to more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not once was I required to key the radio... just hit the IDENT button on the transponder and each controller acknowledged.... "Ident observed". Saves the juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK ALT-HOLD A/P, ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor, King KT-76A Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running the entire time.... Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery reserves. Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA RV-7A N174JL 245 hrs www.jacklockamy.com jacklockamy@verizon,net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:20:22 PM PST US From: ron dewees Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re:Microair 769 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ron dewees I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two years and concur with several of the results others have mentioned-- The transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts and I have no complaints with it. The receiver audio appears to be very selective though. Many signals are clear and easily understandable, while others-- towers and ATC are often distorted and difficult to understand. I have tried various headsets and my Lightspeed ANR is the best but there are still 30 percent of signals that are very difficult to understand. I wonder if the percent of distortion in the audio amplifier is high or there is an overdriven stage in the receiver causing problems. I read a great review of the radio before I bought it but nothing in the last few years. I did notice that when I was trying it out on the ground without the engine running it was very voltage sensitive. If the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very low to almost unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage is no issue. Wonder if anyone has ideas on distorted audio. The open-mike intercom is a whole other issue. If both headsets aren't the same impedance one hears loud audio and the other can't hear well at all. Guess it's one of the compromises of a cheap integrated intecom. Thanks Ron > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:24 PM PST US From: Robert Sultzbach Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Robert Sultzbach Hi Jack, The SD-20 weighs 5.72 lbs. according to the B&C drawing SD20 last revised 2/24/03. Bob Sultzbach --- JACK LOCKAMY wrote: > Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A > (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, > internally regulated alternator, failure! (The > first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a > cooling blast tube aimed at the rear of the > alternator and still don't know why these > alternators keep failing. Since it was a NAPA > rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684 with a three-year > warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced > today for FREE! > > I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally > at night, For this reason, I am concerned with > alternator failures and have decided to install a > back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on > my Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine.... > > Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I > normally run with about 14-18 AMP loads and figure I > need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10 AMPS but > lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up > alternator for my electrical load during night/IFR > flight. > > Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 > architecture with a Van's 60-AMP internally > regulated alternator. If I purchase and install > the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the > Dynon EMS-10 firewall mounted shunt or connect the > SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680 battery directly in case > the Van's recommended alternator takes another crap? > Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able > to determine if there was a problem with their > wiring directions or if the #14684 alternators were > the problem here. > > BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying > for approx. 1:45 minutes after the alternator > failed. I was using flight following as usual and > informed them that I had an alternator failure and > would prefer to use the IDENT button on my King > KT-76A transponder to acknowledge freq changes > and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice in > the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. > This worked extremely well and I wasn't forced to > use un-necessary volts using my transmit button on > Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I > was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for > almost 2-hours and I landed with 11.5 volts in the > PC-680. NOTE: I was prepared to squawk 7600 and > had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No > Radio), I would squawk 7600, and would be expecting > light signals (flashing green light?) from Camarillo > Tower for landing permission. If you inform Center > of your problem, they will assist. When I first > informed Albuquerque Center of my alternator > problem, the controller asked if I was declaring an > emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough > battery voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick > Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I was switched to > more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not > once was I required to key the radio... just hit the > IDENT button on the transponder and each controller > acknowledged.... "Ident observed". Saves the > juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK > ALT-HOLD A/P, ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON > EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor, King KT-76A > Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running > the entire time.... > > Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your > transponder to acknowledge radio calls rather than > transmit on the radio and use valuable battery > reserves. > > Jack Lockamy > Camarillo, CA > RV-7A N174JL 245 hrs > www.jacklockamy.com > jacklockamy@verizon,net Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited (http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:05 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Back-up Alternator Last Thursday, after 245 hours on my RV-7A (0-320/160 HP), I suffered my SECOND, Van's 60-AMP, internally regulated alternator, failure! (The first alternator failed at 160 hrs!) I have a cooling blast tube aimed at the rear of the alternator and still don't know why these alternators keep failing. Since it was a NAPA rebuilt, Lester alternator #14684 with a three-year warranty, I was able to get the alternator replaced today for FREE! It's nice that the expense is so accommodating . . . but a boat-load of no-cost alternators may well forever fall short of design goals. I fly over mountainous terrain, IFR and occasionally at night, For this reason, I am concerned with alternator failures and have decided to install a back-up alternator on the un-used vacuum pump pad on my Lycoming 0-320/conical mount engine.... It's been a perennial recommendation here on the List that no vacuum pump pad should go wasting with a cover plate on it. Question: How much does the B&C SD-20 weigh? I normally run with about 14-18 AMP loads and figure I need the SD-20 instead of the SD-8 (8-10 AMPS but lighter weight?) to have a reliable back-up alternator for my electrical load during night/IFR flight. . . . but why support "normal" loads? How much stuff do you really need during the en route phase of flight to get airport of intended destination in sight with a fully charged battery to assist the standby alternator in running whatever electro-whizzies you wish for descent and approach to landing? Question: I have my -7A wired using Bob's Z-11 architecture with a Van's 60-AMP internally regulated alternator. If I purchase and install the B&C SD-20 alternator, do I connect it to the Dynon EMS-10 firewall mounted shunt or connect the SD-20 to the Odyssey PC-680 battery directly in case the Van's recommended alternator takes another crap? Spoke with Gus at Van's on Thursday and wasn't able to determine if there was a problem with their wiring directions or if the #14684 alternators were the problem here. Why are you choosing to stay with the brand/model of alternator sold/recommended by Van's? We KNOW that other brands bolted to Lycoming engines have produced exemplary service records. Aside from weak design and/or poor workmanship, there no reason that an alternator should not run for TBO on the engine. It would seem prudent that the first order of the day is to replace a demonstrably poor performing alternator. BTW.... the Odyssey PC-680 battery kept me flying for approx. 1:45 minutes after the alternator failed. I was using flight following as usual and informed them that I had an alternator failure and would prefer to use the IDENT button on my King KT-76A transponder to acknowledge freq changes and/or traffic calls rather than use the juice in the battery when transmitting on the Comm-1 radio. This worked extremely well and I wasn't forced to use un-necessary volts using my transmit button on Comm-1. Using this method of acknowledgement, I was able to conserve valuable battery voltage for almost 2-hours and I landed with 11.5 volts in the PC-680. The energy needed to occasionally transmit is a trivial part of the total required for comfortable continuation of flight. While "helpful" to a tiny degree it was not necessary. If you are running Z-11, what was your predicted battery only endurance value? NOTE: I was prepared to squawk 7600 and had informed 'Center' that if I went NORDO (No Radio), I would squawk 7600, and would be expecting light signals (flashing green light?) from Camarillo Tower for landing permission. If you inform Center of your problem, they will assist. When I first informed Albuquerque Center of my alternator problem, the controller asked if I was declaring an emergency. My reply was "No... I have enough battery voltage to maintain flight (dual Slick Magnetos) and MONITOR Comm-1". I was switched to more than 6-7 different sector controllers and not once was I required to key the radio... just hit the IDENT button on the transponder and each controller acknowledged.... "Ident observed". Saves the juice.... I had the TRIO Avionics A/P, ALTRAK ALT-HOLD A/P, ICOM-A200 VHF Transceiver, DYNON EFIS-D10, DYNON EMS-D10 Engine monitor, King KT-76A Transponder and AvMAP EKP-IV Moving map GPS running the entire time.... Bottom Line: Use the IDENT button on your transponder to acknowledge radio calls rather than transmit on the radio and use valuable battery reserves. Your experience was much more tense than it needed to be. You have too much electro-stuff running in the endurance mode. Your choice to use IDENT for communication with the ground was immaterial to the outcome of your experience. The fact that you were so worried about outcome that you felt compelled to save a few watt-minutes of energy suggests that the outcome was not a sure bet in your own mind . . . i.e. you were not sure by reason of satisfied design goals that the battery would get you there sans alternator. I respectfully suggest that a killobuck SD-20 installation that adds about 8# to the airplane is not as practical as spending a similar amount of money for a main alternator with an exemplary track record (no or small weigh penalty). Back it up with an 8A alternator (also exemplary track record) for a 3.5# weight penalty. Tailor loads on the endurance bus so in the now unlikely event that the main alternator craps, you have proven, designed-in capabilities to get where you want to go with nary second thought about punching the MIC button to tell the ground, "everything is cool." Main alternator performance is fundamental to the "no- sweat design" along with a well maintained RG battery. Piling a high dollar BandAid on a system with demonstrably flawed fundamentals is only going to have you flying along wondering when the "next interesting flight" is going to happen. How about designing for "never"? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:56:31 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Microair 769 In a message dated 10/28/2006 5:23:53 PM Central Daylight Time, rdewees@mindspring.com writes: If the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very low to almost unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage is no issue. >>> Now THAT is very interesting- since my 760 is on the E-bus, it's normal supply voltage is typically 12.5 volts. Next time I'm trying to communicate with another plane and the reception is crappy, I'll flip the e-bus switch and see if things improve- good observation! Mark ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:48 PM PST US From: jerb Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re:Microair 769 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb Unplug the mikes of your head sets, see if it makes any difference. Many intercoms VOX turn the audio input on for both mikes at the same time rather than just the one activating the VOX. The makes the background noise floor twice as high. Using a head set with a dynamic mikes will substantially increase the noise, headsets the electret mike made a world of difference. Wonder how I learned this.... jerb At 05:19 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ron dewees > >I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two >years and concur with several of the results others have mentioned-- >The transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts >and I have no complaints with it. The receiver audio appears to be >very selective though. Many signals are clear and easily >understandable, while others-- towers and ATC are often distorted >and difficult to understand. I have tried various headsets and my >Lightspeed ANR is the best but there are still 30 percent of signals >that are very difficult to understand. I wonder if the percent of >distortion in the audio amplifier is high or there is an overdriven >stage in the receiver causing problems. I read a great review of >the radio before I bought it but nothing in the last few years. I >did notice that when I was trying it out on the ground without the >engine running it was very voltage sensitive. If the input voltage >was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very low to almost >unaudable. It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage >response between 12 and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter >reads 14 so low voltage is no issue. Wonder if anyone has ideas on >distorted audio. The open-mike intercom is a whole other >issue. If both headsets aren't the same impedance one hears loud >audio and the other can't hear well at all. Guess it's one of the >compromises of a cheap integrated intecom. Thanks >Ron > >> > >