Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message (Dustin Paulson)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: Off Topic - Source for wire wrap pins (Paul McAllister)
4. 07:48 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Off subject - auto battery setup (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 07:52 AM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: Re:Microair 769 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 10:26 AM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bill Boyd)
9. 11:22 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Brian Meyette)
10. 11:50 AM - Re: hot heatsinks (Brian Meyette)
11. 12:23 PM - Re: Missing Text (Dwight Frye)
12. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Z12 Architecture (Dave & Brenda Emond)
13. 04:29 PM - Re: Off subject - auto battery setup (William Slaughter)
14. 05:52 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bob White)
15. 05:52 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bob White)
16. 05:57 PM - Re: Dead Horses don't die... (Charlie England)
17. 07:28 PM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
18. 07:41 PM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (John Swartout)
19. 08:24 PM - Re: Missing Text (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp@hughes.net>
Thanks Steve,
I'll give your suggestion a try and see if this message gets
through.........and thanks Bob for your additional comments about the split
rockers. I haven't flown any of the big iron so don't have that background
to fall back on.......it sounds likes it boils down to go with what ever
floats your boat.
> Dustin,
>
> There is something about the way your Outlook Express is encoding the
> message that causes it to appear blank. I can read your message just
> fine if I view as raw source. You might try changing your Outlook
> encoding to be "Plain Text".
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve Thomas
>
>I hope you will take these comments in the manner it was
>intended......another viewpoint, hopefully providing some additional data
>points to consider in the decision making process.
Been through all of them . . . many times over the years
and it still doesn't make sense to me to have one bright
red rectangular switch battery-alternator-master stand
out from all the switches of any other style. The BIG
guys don't do it. Even the folks who use that switch in
production aircraft put it in the same row as all the
rest of the rocker switches.
>Thanks for a great forum!
You're most welcome.
Bob . . .
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Absent text in Dead Horse Message |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 06:38 AM 10/30/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dustin Paulson" <dustinp@hughes.net>
>
>Thanks Steve,
>
>I'll give your suggestion a try and see if this message gets
>through.........and thanks Bob for your additional comments about the
>split rockers. I haven't flown any of the big iron so don't have that
>background to fall back on.......it sounds likes it boils down to go with
>what ever floats your boat.
Absolutely! It's good that everyone here flies with
exactly what they WANT in their airplane. My hope
is that their decisions are made from understanding
and individual purpose . . . not from having been
persuaded by others.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Off Topic - Source for wire |
wrap pins
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Dick,
Yes I am looking for the single wire wrap pin that can swaged into a hole in
a PCB or breadboard, but I haven't seen them around for the longest time.
I'll give the Mouser part a try if I can't find what I am looking for.
Thanks for the tip.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Richard E. Tasker
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 9:12 PM
Subject: PROBABLE SPAM> Re: AeroElectric-List: Off Topic - Source for
wire wrap pins
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker"
<retasker@optonline.net>
Not sure exactly what you want. If you want a single wirewrap pin that
can be swaged into a hole in a PCB or breadboard (like you used to be
able to find in many places) I do not know where to find them any more
(except in my miscellaneous parts bin). If you are willing to settle
for a strip of pins that you can break or cut apart then these might
work for you (they are 0.025 sq. pins) :
http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=929834-05-36virtualkey5175
0000virtualkey517-834-05-36
They are available in several different pin lengths and in gold or tin.
If the URL above doesn't work then go to www.mouser.com and enter
517-834-05-36 in the search window.
Dick Tasker
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:57 PM 10/27/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
><pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
>Hello,
>
>I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
>from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
>main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
>glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
>+99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
>the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load and
>see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be nothing
>that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
>I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
I can think of no way to deliberately generate this behavior
with some variance of wiring. It's almost a sure bet that the little
critter is suffering from byte-farts.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Off subject - auto battery setup |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:56 PM 10/27/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>
>There has been an interesting discussion of cheap PC-680 batteries
>(Oddessy knockoffs) on another list. The cost is less than $30. I'm
>not sure I want to run one in my airplane, but my Jeep needs a new
>battery. I'm considering wiring two of these cheap PC-680s in
>parallel and using them to replace the Sears lead acid auto battery
>in the Jeep. The result should be as potent as the Sears Battery for
>less money, take up less space, and avoid the cable corrosion problem
>that has plagued my Jeep ever since I bought it. Is there anything
>wrong with this idea?
I used to get RG batteries from B&C that had been
cosmetically damaged in shipment that were paid
for by the shipper's insurance. I've run a variety
of RG batteries in my vehicles with great success.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:21 AM 10/27/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
>
>
> >
> > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
>I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
>load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
>increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
>the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
>original description.
Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:46 PM 10/28/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: jerb <ulflyer@verizon.net>
>
>Unplug the mikes of your head sets, see if it makes any difference. Many
>intercoms VOX turn the audio input on for both mikes at the same time
>rather than just the one activating the VOX. The makes the background
>noise floor twice as high. Using a head set with a dynamic mikes will
>substantially increase the noise, headsets the electret mike made a world
>of difference. Wonder how I learned this....
>jerb
>
>At 05:19 PM 10/28/2006, you wrote:
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ron dewees <rdewees@mindspring.com>
>>
>>I have had my Microair 760 installed and running for almost two years and
>>concur with several of the results others have mentioned-- The
>>transmitter seems to function adequately with it's 5 or 7 watts and I
>>have no complaints with it.
RF power output for this radio is rated at 4w which is
quite adequate for VHF Comm applications in aircraft.
>> The receiver audio appears to be very selective though. Many signals
>> are clear and easily understandable, while others-- towers and ATC are
>> often distorted and difficult to understand. I have tried various
>> headsets and my Lightspeed ANR is the best but there are still 30
>> percent of signals that are very difficult to understand. I wonder if
>> the percent of distortion in the audio amplifier is high or there is an
>> overdriven stage in the receiver causing problems.
Audio amplifier quality doesn't vary with circumstance.
If it's okay some times and not okay other times, there's
an external force or some other variable at work . . .
>> I read a great review of the radio before I bought it but nothing in
>> the last few years. I did notice that when I was trying it out on the
>> ground without the engine running it was very voltage sensitive. If
>> the input voltage was less than 12 or so the receiver volume was very
>> low to almost unaudable.
The best way to explore this is with a bench check.
The radio needs to be operated under controlled conditions
while varying only one condition at a time.
>> It seems almost linear in it's volume to voltage response between 12
>> and 14 volts. In the plane the panel voltmeter reads 14 so low voltage
>> is no issue. Wonder if anyone has ideas on distorted audio. The
>> open-mike intercom is a whole other issue. If both headsets aren't the
>> same impedance one hears loud audio and the other can't hear well at
>> all. Guess it's one of the compromises of a cheap integrated intecom.
Many intercoms, integrated or not will produce variable
results with different brands of headsets. When I was
more in-the-business, unmatched headsets was the #1
performance issue in audio systems. I did an audio
system specification for the Gates-Piaggio GP180 about
25 years ago that called for totally independent microphone
amplifiers with a small degree of volume leveling. The
output impedance of the headphone amplifiers was very
low so that variability in one headset does not produce
noticeable effects in other headsets. I had to take that
approach because products of choice at that time were
already showing deficiencies in tolerating headset
variability. It CAN be done . . . but almost nobody
does it.
If you want your radio bench checked, you can mail
it to me and I can quantify some of the variables you've
hypothesized about and at least confirm or eliminate
the radio as the root cause of your dissatisfaction.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
Okay, okay, I'll cede the point. But conceptually, the grid is
controlling the current of electrons across the vacuum, and only
indirectly is it manipulating the voltage on the plate in the process.
High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron
current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate
voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud
collapses... I'm not sure.
Next, I suppose someone is going to say that we should model
transistors based on the voltages rather than the currents in the b-e
junction and the collector circuit. I'll be really lost then.
Once in ages past, I learned some long-since forgotten lore about
vacuum tube transconductance, in units I think they called mhos, and
it was something like mu=I/E, which I'm sure must be where I got that
fuzzy notion that we were concerned with the effect of grid voltage on
plate current. Well, I'm 50 now, and there's been alot of
(solid-state-derrived) RF radiated way too close to my head since
those days, so I guess I'm not a gold star-level ham anymore. I will
take it in stride :-) Bending over...
-Bill B / rice box appliance operator, but I once fooled with
12AX7's, 6L6's etc.
Anymore I finds airplanes is easier to understand but less funs to mess up ;-)
do not archive
On 10/30/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 08:21 AM 10/27/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
> >load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
> >increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
> >the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
> >original description.
>
> Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
> your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
>
> This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
> about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
> around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2@starband.net>
I just went through installing my GRT HE sensor for my GRT EIS, so I have
the latest info on this from GRT.
First, a couple questions I had for them about it; you can mount it on or
near metal without it affecting the reading. For example, you could mount
it to where the wire passes through a panel or bulkhead. Epoxy and/or
tie-wraps would do this. Picture a large hole same as ID of sensor,
surrounded by about three 1/4" holes for tie-wraps going through the holes
and around the sensor.
I also had wondered if accuracy of the sensor would be affected by other
large wires near the OUTside of the sensor. GRT said no.
This is how I did mine:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsOct06.htm#oct28
I also used heatshrink on the sensor wires and the sensed wire, to help hold
them together and protect them. I also have 2 crossed tie-wraps holding the
HE sensor ring to the sensed wire. Mounting options are limited only by
your imagination.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Newton
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton"
<enewton57@cableone.net>
I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start
my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor.
Thanks for any advise.
Eric Newton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
> <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
> from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
> main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
> glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
> +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
> the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load
> and
> see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be
> nothing
> that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
> I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
>
>
--
--
Message 10
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Thanks, Tim. In my case, I decided to do whatever was needed to
electrically insulate the heatsink from the case, so the heatsink is not
hot.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim &
Diane Shankland
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 10:49 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: hot heatsinks
Brian,
I had the same concern, attached is a picture of my solution. I would be
concerned if you are covering the heat sink with a rubber boot or insulation
because that would greatly reduce its effectiveness. The picture is of a
plastic cover that protects both the heat sink and the connections from
accidental contact with other conductors.
Tim Shankland
Brian Meyette wrote:
I have a couple schottky diodes with heatsinks. Due to the diode package
design, the base is the cathode. This in turn means that the heatsink is
electrically hot. For all my other exposed +12v connections, I have
covered them either with a rubber boot or multiple layers of liquid
insulation. I am concerned about these heatsinks, and the +12v passing
through them, being exposed. It would defeat the purpose of the heatsink if
I cover them with liquid insulation. I was thinking perhaps I could build
a perforated Plexiglas or fiberglass box to put over them. What do you
electrical gurus think about this situation with exposed heatsinks that are
+12v?
brian
http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Text |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
On Sun Oct 29 08:43:51 2006, Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote :
>"Here is cut-paste of Dwights message..."
>
>Ooops- meant "Dustin"- caffeine deficiency I suppose... (sorry!)
>
>Mark do not archive
We were e-mailing off-list over the weekend, and I'm guessing that your
Monday morning caffeine intake was just too minimal to do the trick. Add
to that e-mail discussions with two folks whose names start with "D" and
you have a recipe for an "oops". :) I _do_ hate it when I do that sort
of thing myself.
BTW, the stuff we were discussing in e-mail this weekend is working out
quite nicely. I'm pleased, and appreciate the time you took to validate
my approach!
-- Dwight (do not archive)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Z12 Architecture |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond@mweb.co.za>
Thanks Bob
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z12 Architecture
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 07:32 PM 10/29/2006 +0200, you wrote:
>
>>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dave & Brenda Emond"
>><d_emond@mweb.co.za>
>>
>>
>>
>>I have gone with the Z-12 architecture. B&C 60 Amp main and 20amp standby
>>as well as the necessary controllers as per Bobs architecture.
>>
>>How does one test this setup?? I have heard that should I pull the field
>>breaker on the main alternator( with the engine running), the standby unit
>>will come into play.
>>
>>Must I leave the 60amp off line until the engine is switched off, before
>>re setting??
>
> You need to order the Standby Regulator to go
> with the SD-20. This regulator gets set for about 1 volt
> below normal alternator output voltage (13.2) See
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/Bc217.pdf
>
>
> After you start the engine, leave the main alternator off
> and the SD-20 should pick up the load and the "sb alt loaded"
> light will come on showing it's on line. Bus voltage should
> be about 13.2 at the point. Turn the main alternator on,
> the light should go out and the bus voltage rises to 14.2.
>
> See also:
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/410Finaltest.html
>
> http://www.bandc.biz/BC410-installinstructions.pdf
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Off subject - auto battery setup |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "William Slaughter" <willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
I have an actual Oddessy 680 in my '94 Camaro track day/street play car. It
starts up an 11.4:1 compression 395 cubic inch V8 just fine. When I get the
RV-8 finished , I'll annually put a new one in the plane, move that one to
the car, and I guess save up the one out of the car for ????
William Slaughter
RV-8 QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Off subject - auto battery setup
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 08:56 PM 10/27/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charles Brame
>--> <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>
>There has been an interesting discussion of cheap PC-680 batteries
>(Oddessy knockoffs) on another list. The cost is less than $30. I'm not
>sure I want to run one in my airplane, but my Jeep needs a new battery.
>I'm considering wiring two of these cheap PC-680s in parallel and using
>them to replace the Sears lead acid auto battery in the Jeep. The
>result should be as potent as the Sears Battery for less money, take up
>less space, and avoid the cable corrosion problem that has plagued my
>Jeep ever since I bought it. Is there anything wrong with this idea?
I used to get RG batteries from B&C that had been
cosmetically damaged in shipment that were paid
for by the shipper's insurance. I've run a variety
of RG batteries in my vehicles with great success.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 09:51:18 -0600
"Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 08:21 AM 10/27/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> > >
> > > Bob . . .
> > >
> > >
> >I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
> >load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
> >increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
> >the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
> >original description.
>
> Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
> your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
>
> This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
> about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
> around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
Thanks Bob, but if I have to bend over I may not want that star. :)
Bob W.
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
Hi Bill,
Your thought process is exactly correct. the transfer function is
voltage in current out. If the grid is negative enough to cut off the
current flow, the plate voltage would equal the supply voltage. You
would never have current flowing from the plate to the cathode. And yes
the transfer function for a transistor is current in current out. The
FET also has a voltage to current transfer function but in general the
shape of the function is closer to a pentode than a triode. The trick
is to take whatever function you have and figure out how to build what
you need, which more often than not is a voltage in voltage out
amplifier.
I'm about 10 years older than you, and when I went thru tech school I
spent months learning about tubes, how they worked and how to design
with them. They were still in use when I entered the work force, but I
don't think I ever designed anything with them. I remember building an
intercom when I was a teenager, but it hummed a lot because all my
filter capacitors came from old TV sets. :)
Ah, yes! The good old 6L6. I think that was often used in the design
classes.
Bob W.
do not archive
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 13:24:08 -0500
"Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com> wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>
> Okay, okay, I'll cede the point. But conceptually, the grid is
> controlling the current of electrons across the vacuum, and only
> indirectly is it manipulating the voltage on the plate in the process.
> High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron
> current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate
> voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud
> collapses... I'm not sure.
>
> Next, I suppose someone is going to say that we should model
> transistors based on the voltages rather than the currents in the b-e
> junction and the collector circuit. I'll be really lost then.
>
> Once in ages past, I learned some long-since forgotten lore about
> vacuum tube transconductance, in units I think they called mhos, and
> it was something like mu=I/E, which I'm sure must be where I got that
> fuzzy notion that we were concerned with the effect of grid voltage on
> plate current. Well, I'm 50 now, and there's been alot of
> (solid-state-derrived) RF radiated way too close to my head since
> those days, so I guess I'm not a gold star-level ham anymore. I will
> take it in stride :-) Bending over...
>
> -Bill B / rice box appliance operator, but I once fooled with
> 12AX7's, 6L6's etc.
>
> Anymore I finds airplanes is easier to understand but less funs to mess up ;-)
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On 10/30/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
> > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> >
> > At 08:21 AM 10/27/2006 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> > >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bob White <bob@bob-white.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Bill, you get the gold star for the day in catching
> > > > the writer's error and bringing it to the attention
> > > > of interested individuals. Good catch!
> > > >
> > > > Bob . . .
> > > >
> > > >
> > >I think you guys are mixing up plate supply with plate voltage. The
> > >load resistor is between the supply and the plate. When the current
> > >increases, the voltage across the load resistor increases. Therefore
> > >the plate voltage goes down. There isn't anything wrong with the
> > >original description.
> >
> > Good for you sir. Bill, bend over. I'm going to peel off
> > your gold star and stick it on Bob . . .
> >
> > This, ladies and gents is what good critical review is all
> > about. It's exceedingly east to get our tongues wrapped
> > around our eyeteeth so we can't see what we're saying.
> >
> > Bob . . .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First engine start 1/7/06 - Special Airworthiness Certificate 10/1/06
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Dead Horses don't die... |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
> <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> On 26 Oct 2006, at 22:34, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>> I know that Microair did not do their homework and build
>> power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable
>> (20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling
>> them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of
>> offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is.
>>
>
> I've got a Microair com in my not-yet-flying aircraft. I don't have
> an avionics master. What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to
> the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during
> start up and shut down?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
I'm flying a 15 year old -4 that I've owned for 3 1/2 years. It's got a
dirt simple electrical system with a Microair comm that I never turn
off. I'm not proud of it, but there...I've admitted it. No problems so far.
Charlie
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 01:24 PM 10/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>
>
>Okay, okay, I'll cede the point. But conceptually, the grid is
>controlling the current of electrons across the vacuum, and only
>indirectly is it manipulating the voltage on the plate in the process.
Sure . . . and transistors do that too. The cause is a delta-I
in a base or delta-E on a grid both of which effect a delta-I
in the collector/plate. Whether or not there is a resulting
delta-E in the output depends on source impedance of the supply
such that if it's very low ohms, lots of current modulation can
be go'n on with no discernable change in voltage.
>High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron
>current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate
>voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud
>collapses... I'm not sure.
Hmmm . . . don't recall taking it that far. I could go to
the bench and try it. Yeah, I still have vacuum tubes laying
around . . . and high voltage power supplies. I like to use
vacuum tubes to teach elementary electronics. You can take them
apart and TOUCH and SEE the things that make them work. Not
so with the silicon.
>Next, I suppose someone is going to say that we should model
>transistors based on the voltages rather than the currents in the b-e
>junction and the collector circuit. I'll be really lost then.
Doubt that. Whether you like with H-parameters, S-parameters,
etc., the physics of the transistor doesn't change and external
source impedances are readily accounted for in the performance
predictions. Base delta-I still translates to collector delta-I.
>Once in ages past, I learned some long-since forgotten lore about
>vacuum tube transconductance, in units I think they called mhos, and
>it was something like mu=I/E, which I'm sure must be where I got that
>fuzzy notion that we were concerned with the effect of grid voltage on
>plate current. Well, I'm 50 now, and there's been alot of
>(solid-state-derrived) RF radiated way too close to my head since
>those days, so I guess I'm not a gold star-level ham anymore. I will
>take it in stride :-) Bending over...
Awww shucks . . . you can keep the star. We're all friends here
and I'm not sure Bob wants a 'used' one anyhow.
>-Bill B / rice box appliance operator, but I once fooled with
>12AX7's, 6L6's etc.
The first RF I put on the air was from a 1-tube, 117L7 transmitter
good for about 5w out. The receiver was a 6SN7 regen + one stage
of audio. Used this combination for several months with reasonable
success considering the equipment. Somebody gave me the functional guts
of an SX25 sans case. Had to make dials but at least I had a REAL
receiver. It was downhill from there! The next transmitter was
a 6V6 driving an 807 . . . real flamethrower. That was the spring
of '56. Been up to my eyeballs in electrons ever since.
Bob . . .
Message 18
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| Subject: | Dynon - hall effect sensor issue |
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" <jgswartout@earthlink.net>
WOW! Brian! If you ever give up airplane building I think you have a
future in professional photography! Those are stunning photos. Color,
composition, lighting, the works!
John
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Meyette
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette"
<brianpublic2@starband.net>
I just went through installing my GRT HE sensor for my GRT EIS, so I have
the latest info on this from GRT.
First, a couple questions I had for them about it; you can mount it on or
near metal without it affecting the reading. For example, you could mount
it to where the wire passes through a panel or bulkhead. Epoxy and/or
tie-wraps would do this. Picture a large hole same as ID of sensor,
surrounded by about three 1/4" holes for tie-wraps going through the holes
and around the sensor.
I also had wondered if accuracy of the sensor would be affected by other
large wires near the OUTside of the sensor. GRT said no.
This is how I did mine:
http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsOct06.htm#oct28
I also used heatshrink on the sensor wires and the sensed wire, to help hold
them together and protect them. I also have 2 crossed tie-wraps holding the
HE sensor ring to the sensed wire. Mounting options are limited only by
your imagination.
brian
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric
Newton
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton"
<enewton57@cableone.net>
I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start
my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor.
Thanks for any advise.
Eric Newton
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell"
> <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor
> from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to the
> main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one
> glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to
> +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In
> the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load
> and
> see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be
> nothing
> that is sending a high current spike thru the cable.
>
> I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks
>
>
--
--
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Missing Text |
In a message dated 10/30/2006 2:26:23 PM Central Standard Time,
dwight@openweave.org writes:
I'm pleased, and appreciate the time you took to validate
my approach!
>>>
Not necessarily "validate" as the thing is merely electrons on a CAD screen
at this time- "under consideration" would be more appropriate until the witches
brew come to full boil. Best of all, more stuff to chew on til the
agony/ecstasy of commitment/execution! 8-)
Mark do not archive
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