---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/31/06: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:47 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Eric Newton) 2. 05:00 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Chuck Jensen) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: Ground Power Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 05:38 AM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 05:48 AM - Re: Dead Horses don't die... (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:36 AM - Re: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year (Bill Boyd) 7. 07:35 AM - KT 79 transponder (Chris Fordham) 8. 10:08 AM - SKYMAP IIIC question (Gilles Thesee) 9. 11:20 AM - Re: KT 79 transponder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 12:04 PM - Re: SKYMAP IIIC question (Ken Harrill) 11. 01:04 PM - FW: SKYMAP IIIC question (ivor.phillips) 12. 03:33 PM - Re: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue (Eric Newton) 13. 05:07 PM - Re: What I want and thank you (CardinalNSB@aol.com) 14. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: What I want and thank you (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:42 AM PST US From: "Eric Newton" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" I noticed in John's pictures that he has the solenoids with the rubber insulators on the mounting tabs. There was some discussion recently on this group about them. Was a conclusion ever reached? I have the same insulated mounts on the ones that I purchased from B&C. Should the solenoids be grounded? Eric Newton ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Swartout" Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" > > > WOW! Brian! If you ever give up airplane building I think you have a > future in professional photography! Those are stunning photos. Color, > composition, lighting, the works! > > John > > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian > Meyette > Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:19 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" > > > I just went through installing my GRT HE sensor for my GRT EIS, so I have > the latest info on this from GRT. > > First, a couple questions I had for them about it; you can mount it on or > near metal without it affecting the reading. For example, you could mount > it to where the wire passes through a panel or bulkhead. Epoxy and/or > tie-wraps would do this. Picture a large hole same as ID of sensor, > surrounded by about three 1/4" holes for tie-wraps going through the holes > and around the sensor. > > I also had wondered if accuracy of the sensor would be affected by other > large wires near the OUTside of the sensor. GRT said no. > > This is how I did mine: > http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsOct06.htm#oct28 > > I also used heatshrink on the sensor wires and the sensed wire, to help > hold > them together and protect them. I also have 2 crossed tie-wraps holding > the > HE sensor ring to the sensed wire. Mounting options are limited only by > your imagination. > brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric > Newton > Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:51 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" > > > I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to > start > my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor. > Thanks for any advise. > > Eric Newton > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Howell" > To: > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > > >> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect sensor >> from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the battery to >> the >> main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it works well with one >> glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the amps reading shoots up to >> +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. In >> the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the load >> and >> see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be >> nothing >> that is sending a high current spike thru the cable. >> >> I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - Thanks >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue From: "Chuck Jensen" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" Hey, Brian, how about sharing a little. John's right about the photos. Given how much everyone is coming to rely on photos to document their work and to illustration problems/solutions, good quality pictures are fun to look at. There are a bunch of crappy photographers out there (and we know who we are) that would appreciate a short rundown on the equipment you use and how you set up to take the photos. Who knows, some of the quality might rub off on us. Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Swartout Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 10:40 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John Swartout" --> WOW! Brian! If you ever give up airplane building I think you have a future in professional photography! Those are stunning photos. Color, composition, lighting, the works! John Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Meyette Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 2:19 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Brian Meyette" I just went through installing my GRT HE sensor for my GRT EIS, so I have the latest info on this from GRT. First, a couple questions I had for them about it; you can mount it on or near metal without it affecting the reading. For example, you could mount it to where the wire passes through a panel or bulkhead. Epoxy and/or tie-wraps would do this. Picture a large hole same as ID of sensor, surrounded by about three 1/4" holes for tie-wraps going through the holes and around the sensor. I also had wondered if accuracy of the sensor would be affected by other large wires near the OUTside of the sensor. GRT said no. This is how I did mine: http://brian76.mystarband.net/avionicsOct06.htm#oct28 I also used heatshrink on the sensor wires and the sensed wire, to help hold them together and protect them. I also have 2 crossed tie-wraps holding the HE sensor ring to the sensed wire. Mounting options are limited only by your imagination. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eric Newton Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 8:51 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" I don't have an answer but have a question for you- I getting ready to start my wiring and was wondering exactly how you mount the Hall effect sensor. Thanks for any advise. Eric Newton ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Howell" Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" > > > Hello, > > I have a Dynon EMS-D10 unit in my RV-9A. I am using a hall effect > sensor from a GRT EIS to measure current in the main wire from the > battery to the main bus. This sensor is supported by Dynon and it > works well with one glitch. Every 10 seconds (like clockwork), the > amps reading shoots up to > +99 amps for 1 second and then drifts back down to the correct value. > +In > the 10 seconds that the correct value is displayed, I can vary the > load and > see accurate results on the meter. Any thoughts? There should be > nothing > that is sending a high current spike thru the cable. > > I have a message into Dynon, but thought I would try here, too. - > Thanks > > -- -- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:26 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Ground Power Question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Ground Power Question Bob, I have constructed your ground power system using your low cost ground power diagram. I would like to take the system one step further and install a power supply that I would plug into a 110v outlet and power the aircraft while testing in my hanger. My aircraft is a RV10 with your dual electrical system design. I have purchased these items (see below) and am planning to tap the 12volt output of the power supply into the piper ground power jack. I would like to mount the power supply into the aircraft and use an IEC connector and power cord to power the supply. Do you see any reason why what I am proposing would not work or is a bad idea. A permanent installation? Why carry the weight around? Why not just plug the external power into the ground power jack when it's needed and leave it behind other times. I am just going to be powering the radios and EFIS to learn the systems while on the ground. Please advise..Thanks.. 12V @ 12.5A 150W POWERSUPPLY1 POWER SUPPLY IEC FEMALE CHASSIS CONNECTOR 9FT IEC POWER CORD What you propose would function but I'm skeptical as to the value of installing such an accessory permanently on the airplane. Also, you might want ot consider acquiring a power supply designed to emulate a vehicle's alternator/battery system. These are 13.8 volt power supplies and widely available in many sizes. Check on e-bay and use '13.8' 'power' and 'supply' as search terms. Here's a couple of good candidates: http://tinyurl.com/y4peaq http://tinyurl.com/y2dumc Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:35 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 06:46 AM 10/31/2006 -0600, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" > > >I noticed in John's pictures that he has the solenoids with the rubber >insulators on the mounting tabs. There was some discussion recently on >this group about them. Was a conclusion ever reached? I have the same >insulated mounts on the ones that I purchased from B&C. Should the >solenoids be grounded? > >Eric Newton It doesn't hurt for the contactors to have insulated mounting feed. I'm mystified as to why the booties have been added after all these years but the case is not part of the electrical circuitry and may be insulated either on purpose (booties) or accidently (composite airplane). Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:48:18 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dead Horses don't die... --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" I know that Microair did not do their homework and build power handling circuitry that was NOT DO-160 qualifiable (20v for 1 S, 40v for 100 mS). That's why I stopped handling them . . . they knew their limitations and in spite of offers of free help, they elected to drive on as-is. I've got a Microair com in my not-yet-flying aircraft. I don't have an avionics master. What sorts of problems can I anticipate due to the power handling issues? Do I need to have the radio OFF during start up and shut down? Kevin I'm flying a 15 year old -4 that I've owned for 3 1/2 years. It's got a dirt simple electrical system with a Microair comm that I never turned off. I'm not proud of it, but there...I've admitted it. No problems so far. . . Charlie And there's no particular reason to expect problems. The fact that MicroAir products have successfully survived all these years in hundreds if not thousands of airplanes is largely due to the fact that the dreaded and much touted startup spikes simply don't exist. The DO-160 rationale for transient withstand has to do with ability to survive the abnormal conditions of alternator runaway and/or alternator load-dump transients. Very few folks experience such events but if they do, it's while things are expected to be operating normally and the radio is ON. No amount of avionics master switches or observance of checklists will provide protection from these events. This is why the industry recommends designing and testing to those qualities. If I were to exercise the-best-we-know-how-to-do in the purposeful installation of sub-standard accessories, I suppose we could fabricate some sore of protected power conditioning system that would provide voltage limiting friendly to our relatively fragile purchases. But as many, many users have noted, the risk are low and adding such features to the system as Band-Aids is not good engineering. Don't loose any sleep over your MicroAir accessories. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:39 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: "Electronics" is 100 years old this year --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd" > > >High enough grid signal voltage can actually make the electron > >current reverse course and return to the cathode. What does the plate > >voltage do in that brief moment when the Edison effect cloud > >collapses... I'm not sure. > > Hmmm . . . don't recall taking it that far. I could go to > the bench and try it. Yeah, I still have vacuum tubes laying > around . . . and high voltage power supplies. I like to use > vacuum tubes to teach elementary electronics. You can take them > apart and TOUCH and SEE the things that make them work. Not > so with the silicon. > Isn't that what happens in a diode rectifier tube, and also a class-C triode amplifier (and maybe for a brief % of the duty cycle in everything from class AB on down), this biasing to cutoff? That's what I was referring to, but perhaps incorrectly. > > The first RF I put on the air was from a 1-tube, 117L7 transmitter > good for about 5w out. The receiver was a 6SN7 regen + one stage > of audio. Used this combination for several months with reasonable > success considering the equipment. Somebody gave me the functional guts > of an SX25 sans case. Had to make dials but at least I had a REAL > receiver. It was downhill from there! The next transmitter was > a 6V6 driving an 807 . . . real flamethrower. That was the spring > of '56. Been up to my eyeballs in electrons ever since. > > Bob . . . > > You, sir, are _old_. Spring of '56, playing with electrons, when I was still in the womb... It's been a fun thread. BTW, the new Hyundai alternator isn't in yet; it appears to be a "special order" item. Perhaps it has a special voodoo regulator inside ;-) I'll check back with the mechanic today; he promised me to save the core. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:08 AM PST US From: "Chris Fordham" Subject: AeroElectric-List: KT 79 transponder --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Fordham" Hi Would anyone have a pinout for a Bendix King KT 79 they would care to share with me. Thanks Chris (do not archive) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:08:01 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: AeroElectric-List: SKYMAP IIIC question --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee Hi Bob and all, Anyone happen to have info concerning the wiring of the GPS BENDIX SKYMAP IIIC ? A homebuilding buddy is looking for info as to how to connect his sub-d 9 connector. Any input appreciated, Thanks Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: KT 79 transponder --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 07:31 AM 10/31/2006 -0800, you wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Chris Fordham" > >Hi > Would anyone have a pinout for a Bendix King KT 79 they would care to > share with me. Thanks Chris (do not archive) see http://aeroelectric.com/Installation_Data Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:20 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: SKYMAP IIIC question From: "Ken Harrill" --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ken Harrill" I have attached a PDF file of the wiring diagram I used in my RV-6. Ken Harrill Columbia, SC RV-6, 600 hrs -------- Ken Harrill RV-6 Columiba, SC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71377#71377 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/skympap_connector_to_ac_wiring_188.pdf ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:30 PM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: FW: AeroElectric-List: SKYMAP IIIC question -----Original Message----- From: ivorphillips [mailto:ivor@ivorphillips.flyer.co.uk] Sent: 31 October 2006 20:26 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: SKYMAP IIIC question Hi Gilles This is from my manual of last year, so should be current, Regards Ivor Anyone happen to have info concerning the wiring of the GPS BENDIX SKYMAP IIIC ? ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:37 PM PST US From: "Eric Newton" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" Ok thanks Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:37 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Dynon - hall effect sensor issue > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > > > At 06:46 AM 10/31/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric Newton" >> >> >>I noticed in John's pictures that he has the solenoids with the rubber >>insulators on the mounting tabs. There was some discussion recently on >>this group about them. Was a conclusion ever reached? I have the same >>insulated mounts on the ones that I purchased from B&C. Should the >>solenoids be grounded? >> >>Eric Newton > > It doesn't hurt for the contactors to have insulated > mounting feed. I'm mystified as to why the booties > have been added after all these years but the case > is not part of the electrical circuitry and may be > insulated either on purpose (booties) or accidently > (composite airplane). > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:57 PM PST US From: CardinalNSB@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What I want and thank you "It's good that everyone here flies with exactly what they WANT in their airplane." Well, some of us are still flying certified old spam cans, so we are not unlimited. But, this site/Bob's book (mostly), some other forums, and with a lot of logical thinking my ap has begun to allow me (under his direct supervision, of course) to make some "minor mods" to my electric system (no changes to the basic system, of course) that my prior ap's had considered to be well beyond the pale of minor mods (Really, a field approval for a stuck starter light???).. Thanks to all especially Bob. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:13:24 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: What I want and thank you --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" At 08:03 PM 10/31/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >"It's good that everyone here flies with exactly what they WANT in their >airplane." > >Well, some of us are still flying certified old spam cans, so we are not >unlimited. > >But, this site/Bob's book (mostly), some other forums, and with a lot of >logical thinking my ap has begun to allow me (under his direct >supervision, of course) to make some "minor mods" to my electric system >(no changes to the basic system, of course) that my prior ap's had >considered to be well beyond the pale of minor mods (Really, a field >approval for a stuck starter light???).. > >Thanks to all especially Bob. You're most welcome. I'm pleased that what goes on here offers you solid foundations for striking out on your own as it were . . . especially in the face of bureaucratic impediments to progress and a healthy skepticism for tradition. I'm working on a White Paper that discusses the value of an IR&D facility (you'd be surprise how few big-name operations don't have one . . . or don't understand how you use one). After it's been reviewed, I'll publish it on my website. . . . and I owe all of you a debt of gratitude too. One of the points in my White Paper speaks to the need to practice details of an art . . . EVERY DAY. The best musicians, cooks, golfers, etc. all put their hands on the hardware of their craft every day. You folks have given me a forum to exercise my own skills at writing, explaining, and illustrating simple-ideas and the inventions that grow out of them. I've become more effective at my profession because of opportunities I found here on the List that my job doesn't offer. Some of you may feel that this is a one-way street but allow me to assure you, it's a symbiotic relationship where everyone enthusiastic about the disipline can grow. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------