---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/16/06: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:22 AM - Re: Re: TCAD IAS Switch (with link to sketch) () 2. 03:39 AM - Re: Recomended Alternator (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 03:58 AM - Re: GTX327 power switching (Dave) 4. 05:17 AM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (Ernest Christley) 5. 05:43 AM - Re: Vacuum Pad Limitations - Weight & Torque... (glen matejcek) 6. 05:50 AM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (Dale Ensing) 7. 07:30 AM - Temperature units puzzle (Fergus Kyle) 8. 08:32 AM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (OldBob Siegfried) 9. 08:33 AM - Re: Recomended Alternator (Jim Baker) 10. 12:48 PM - GEMS Optical switch (John Burnaby) 11. 12:56 PM - Re: GEMS Optical switch (Mark R Steitle) 12. 02:10 PM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (Gilles Thesee) 13. 04:09 PM - Re: GEMS Optical switch (Richard Tasker) 14. 04:18 PM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (Bob McCallum) 15. 05:16 PM - Re: Temperature units puzzle (Eric M. Jones) 16. 05:57 PM - Re: Re: Temperature units puzzle (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 07:04 PM - MAXI fuses for alternator b-leads (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 18. 08:00 PM - Re: Hynudai Alternator (FLYaDIVE@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:22:14 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: TCAD IAS Switch (with link to sketch) Bob, I sat down and examined the resistors and finally figured out that they are a voltage divider and that the total amperage down any leg in the circuit would 0.007A. I think I understand how it works now. Thanks. Don ---- "Robert L. Nuckolls wrote: > > > The circuit is just a ground to tell my TCAD that it is on the ground. A > pressure switch ( I can only find NO in the range I need) is in the pitot > system. The switch closes at roughly 50 knots. I have access to both ends > of the switch. The switch is a micro pneumatic logic 503. Maybe you know a > supplier that would sell me one that is NC.The closing of the switch is > supposed to open the ground on the TCAD. I can easily convert the no to nc > by using a relay, but, I thought a transistor may also work?? Just making > an attempt to learn more electric stuff. I hope that this explanation > works. > > If we knew more about the internal wiring of the TCAD system, perhaps > the solution could be as simple as the first sketch below. > > (I didn't get the attachment here . . . I've posted the sketch > at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/temp/TCAD_Switch.pdf > > However, the second sketch is 99.9% certain to work. All the parts are > available from Radio Shack. > > Bob . . . > --------------------------------------------------------- > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > > < the authority which determines whether there can be > > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > > < with experiment. > > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:13 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Recomended Alternator At 07:45 PM 11/15/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >Bob and Bob, > >Thanks for the input and recommendations. I do like the B&C products as >they look to be top of the line quality, I'm just not sure I need to spend >that much for the type of flying I do. I'm mostly day VFR with some >occasional clear night flying for no more than about 1 hour before dawn or >after dusk. > >I'm also planning on installing a Dynon EFIS with a back-up battery. > >Mike C. Understand . . . and I'm suggesting that any decision you make not to spend that kind of money does not bode ill for the serviceability or reliability of your electrical system. Keep in mind that the majority of TC aircraft flying today are carrying batteries and alternators that we would consider junk by modern standards for ordinary, consumer grade, off-the-shelf hardware. Further, there ARE ways to integrate this hardware into an aircraft such that traditional operational design goals can be met. Hence, there is no reason supported by simple-ideas that I or anyone else can recommend against the use of such products in your airplane. You DO need a way to disconnect a malfunctioning alternator from the rest of the system and pulling a b-lead breaker is NOT the way to do it. If you choose to go the internally regulated, automotive alternator route know that the means by which an orderly disconnect can be accomplished is coming. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:01 AM PST US From: Dave Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GTX327 power switching My gtx330 displayed everything without either encoder or antenna. Contrast/brightness adjustment may need to be adjusted? ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:59 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > Bottom line is if somebody mass markets a new > product with fasteners totally foreign to all popular > measurement systems but with performance value > and market appeal, the same manufacturer would make > a lot of money selling a set of tools to go along > with the product. > > Bob . . . > For proof, see "phillips screw". A more modern reference would be "torx screw". (Dang-blasted car companies) -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:20 AM PST US From: "glen matejcek" Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Vacuum Pad Limitations - Weight & Torque... Hi Greg et al- I have no idea what assumptions are built into the max loads the TCDS calls out, so were it me, I'd verify that the 40 inch pound limit was specifically at 1g. Otherwise, it sounds like the SD-20 might limit you to 2.2g's. Does anybody out there have an insight into this detail? >The TCDS also shows that the maximum "overhang moment" of each accessory >should not exceed 40 inch pounds. By checking the specs at >http://www.bandc.biz/SD20REVC.pdf >it appears that the SD-20 weighs about 5.72 lbs and the CG is 3.15" >from the flange, for an overhang moment of about 18 inch pounds. >So far, so good! glen matejcek aerobubba@earthlink.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:27 AM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Stuck in Fahrenheit After working for years in the International division of the Company and living in Europe for some time, I tried to make the conversion to metric as my "mother tongue" for weight and measures. I really tried! And when I built my RV-6A, I put in an engine monitor that .is all metric. I read the numbers and know what they mean. I consider myself sort of dual. But, the bottom line is that I still tend to mentally convert back to the 'English units' when making comparisons between numbers. I am about to give up and convert the engine monitor to English units of measures. Maybe I was too old when I tried to convert. I have decided I am now too old to fight it any longer and will leave it up to future generations. I think the best we can hope for in the short term is to become proficient in each system (as Gilles Thesee appears to be with the two languages). Dale Ensing do not archieve > > This article explains the lack of conversion. > > http://capitalastronomers.org/ReganMeasurements.html > > As a European I'm accustomed to see US citizens use Fahrenheit for CHT, > oil temp etc. > But in an original P51 manual, I'm puzzled to find temps in Celsius. > How come the Celsius were fashionable in the '40s when only Anglo-Saxons > were flying US airplanes, and now they have reverted to Fahrenheit ? > > Thanks, > Gilles Thesee > Grenoble, France > http://contrails.free.fr > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:30:56 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Old Bob and gang, I note that no one has mentioned the BA series of wrenches et al, which produced all those starnge aircraft like the Lancaster bomber and the Lysander STOL. I have several sets of these eerie creatures which say "3/8" but neatly fit a 3/4" hexhead. It's OK if you can multiply by 2. Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:01 AM PST US From: OldBob Siegfried Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Good Morning Ferg, And Whitworth! (Did I spell that correctly?) My Dad had a set of tools that he used when working on International trucks during the twenties. They were marked with the size of the bolt that was being used and would fit the nuts that International Harvester had decided to use on that particular sized bolt. He was one happy camper when the SAE standards were applied to bolt and wrench sizes. As one who has a lifetime collection (some from my Dad which he used in the thirties after the SAE stepped in) of tools, machinery and fasteners: I'm still happy with those standards. Happy Skies, Old Bob --- Fergus Kyle wrote: > Kyle" > > Old Bob and gang, > I note that no one has mentioned the BA series of > wrenches et al, which > produced all those starnge aircraft like the > Lancaster bomber and the > Lysander STOL. > I have several sets of these eerie creatures which > say "3/8" but neatly fit > a 3/4" hexhead. It's OK if you can multiply by 2. > > Ferg Kyle > Europa A064 914 Classic > > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com > Admin. > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:47 AM PST US From: "Jim Baker" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Recomended Alternator X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41) > > I do like the B&C products as > >they look to be top of the line quality, I'm just not sure I need to spend > >that much > >Mike C. > > Understand . . . and I'm suggesting that any decision > you make not to spend that kind of money does not bode > ill for the serviceability or reliability of your electrical > system. Keep in mind that the majority of TC aircraft > flying today are carrying batteries and alternators that > we would consider junk by modern standards for ordinary, > consumer grade, off-the-shelf hardware. Ran across a Continental powered Champ the other day that had one Bendix mag and one Case tractor mag...came that way from the factory. The Bendix had been rebuilt a couple of times over the years. The Case finally gave up after 62 years service..... Jim Baker 580.788.2779 Elmore City, OK ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:20 PM PST US From: "John Burnaby" Subject: AeroElectric-List: GEMS Optical switch I did just about everything wrong in acquiring this gizmo except the price. But it may be a pig in a poke. It's 5VDC, wet probe current sink (normally closed when wet) and metric thread. I want to use it as a low fuel indicator, switching a LED on when low fuel, but the switch opens when the probe is dry...and it's 5V. I can deal with the metric thread. Is there a way to rearrange it all electrically, so that it does what I want? Or should I just toss it? John ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:49 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GEMS Optical switch From: "Mark R Steitle" John, Which model GEMS unit did you buy? I'm using the ELS-1100 sensor in my tanks as you've described and they work perfectly. Mark S. ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Burnaby Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 2:45 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GEMS Optical switch I did just about everything wrong in acquiring this gizmo except the price. But it may be a pig in a poke. It's 5VDC, wet probe current sink (normally closed when wet) and metric thread. I want to use it as a low fuel indicator, switching a LED on when low fuel, but the switch opens when the probe is dry...and it's 5V. I can deal with the metric thread. Is there a way to rearrange it all electrically, so that it does what I want? Or should I just toss it? John ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:41 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Thanks to all who responded. Most informative messages. I'll take the time to thoroughly reread each of them this week-end. I was much interested to discover that some moves to metric have already been done in the US. Of course I'm not suggesting that our American friends change their unit system, just wondering why the Celsius appeared then disappeared. I understand the reluctance of those who would stay with the "inch-pound". We've just been changing to the Euro, and it takes much time to get the new feel. But it's great to have the same currency throughout Europe. Except in Great Britain, of course. Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:59 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GEMS Optical switch If you can give us the model that you purchased, we can tell you how to use it. I have a couple of 5V versions because they were cheap (on Ebay) and plan to use them myself. It is not that difficult to do, but we need to know exactly what you have. Dick Tasker Do not archive John Burnaby wrote: > I did just about everything wrong in acquiring this gizmo except the > price. But it may be a pig in a poke. It's 5VDC, wet probe current > sink (normally closed when wet) and metric thread. I want to use it as > a low fuel indicator, switching a LED on when low fuel, but the switch > opens when the probe is dry...and it's 5V. I can deal with the metric > thread. > Is there a way to rearrange it all electrically, so that it does what > I want? Or should I just toss it? > > John > >* >* > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:06 PM PST US From: "Bob McCallum" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle Or British standard Whitworth (BSW)??? Or British standard fine. (BSF) Bob McC do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 10:29 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Temperature units puzzle > > Old Bob and gang, > I note that no one has mentioned the BA series of wrenches et al, which > produced all those starnge aircraft like the Lancaster bomber and the > Lysander STOL. > I have several sets of these eerie creatures which say "3/8" but neatly fit > a 3/4" hexhead. It's OK if you can multiply by 2. > > Ferg Kyle > Europa A064 914 Classic > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:27 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Temperature units puzzle From: "Eric M. Jones" I was still wondering if I liked Torx heads when they added/changed to Torx II and Torx Plus (are they the same?). There are dozens of variations of "Phillips" or similar cross-recess heads. Around here you can still find 7-32, 9-32, 11-32 etc. from the dim industrial New England past. There are hundreds of thread standards, but ISO (Metric) takes the place of almost all of them. I marked the day the American Empire crumbled on the day NASA decided to build the US half of the international space station in inches and let everyone else use ISO metric. This was both cosmically and comically stupid. What if you need to borrow some fasteners? I design in both inch and metric (and implemented the metric system at the last place I worked) and I can tell you that the inch hangs on from fear and ignorance. I was going to write "inch-system" but there isn't one. Design engineers often panic when they are forced to change. I tell them not to do conversions, and don't be afraid--just use the system. But in desperation, they sneak in cheat sheets... Let's see one American light year=9,460,730,472,580,800,000 international millimeters. "THE VERY BIG STUPID" is a thing which breeds by eating The Future. Have you seen it? It sometimes disguises itself as a good-looking quarterly bottom line, derived by closing the R&D Department. --Frank Zappa -------- Eric M. Jones www.PerihelionDesign.com 113 Brentwood Drive Southbridge, MA 01550 (508) 764-2072 emjones@charter.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75096#75096 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:06 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Temperature units puzzle At 05:14 PM 11/16/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >I was still wondering if I liked Torx heads when they added/changed to >Torx II and Torx Plus (are they the same?). There are dozens of variations >of "Phillips" or similar cross-recess heads. > >Around here you can still find 7-32, 9-32, 11-32 etc. from the dim >industrial New England past. There are hundreds of thread standards, but >ISO (Metric) takes the place of almost all of them. > >I marked the day the American Empire crumbled on the day NASA decided to >build the US half of the international space station in inches and let >everyone else use ISO metric. This was both cosmically and comically >stupid. What if you need to borrow some fasteners? Agreed . . . for the single machine in an exceedingly unique marketplace, one wonders about the thought processes that went into that decision and whether or not somebody decided that they'd rather spend a finite budget on design and performance as opposed to process. >I design in both inch and metric (and implemented the metric system at the >last place I worked) and I can tell you that the inch hangs on from fear >and ignorance. Really? Fear? Ignorance? Please support this assertion. There's not a person I know that wouldn't rather work in metric but we have $deca-millions$ (there's a metric for you) tied up in machine tools and untold investments in familiarization hours for the folks that design, build and maintain our products. Now, explain how a total change-out to ANY other system will make our cost-out-the-door lower, performance higher, customer acceptance greater . . . or our stock more valuable. > I was going to write "inch-system" but there isn't one. Design engineers > often panic when they are forced to change. I tell them not to do > conversions, and don't be afraid--just use the system. But in > desperation, they sneak in cheat sheets... That's like saying that a novel written in German is somehow superior to one written in English. Or that an e-book should be arbitrarily favored over the print version. Process does not trump elegant designs crafted of well organized simple-ideas. The metric system is becoming more prevalent all the time and the marketplace is and will continue to adjust as the economics dictate. Keep in mind that many high volume production operations call 6% net profit a good thing causing their stock to rise while the competitor's 4% profit is not so whippy in the eyes of Wall Street. And do we suppose the stockholders give a rat's fat patootie what measurement system was used to produce the product? Ignorance and fear? Give me a break! It's going to happen but in it's own good time and not because of (or lack of) presidential decrees or cabbages lobbed in from the balcony. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:36 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: MAXI fuses for alternator b-leads >Comments/Questions: Hey, Bob. Your book and other diagrams (I'm using a >Subaru in a Zenith 601HD) say to use an 80 amp fuse for the alternator, >but I don't see a fuse of that size on either your site or on B&C's >site. Am I missing something? Where would you suggest I get that fuse? What size alternator do you have? Suggest you look into an in-line, MAXI fuse holder like http://tinyurl.com/u6de9 and the appropriate fuse like: http://tinyurl.com/toqwp Pick a fuse that is 10 to 20A greater than alternator rating. You can find these in automotive parts stores or: http://tinyurl.com/yydx3m http://tinyurl.com/voffj and http://tinyurl.com/uj5ms Bob . . . ----------------------------------------- ( Experience and common sense cannot be ) ( replaced with policy and procedures. ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:36 PM PST US From: FLYaDIVE@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Hynudai Alternator In a message dated 11/2/06 7:48:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov writes: > Barry > > Since I have little tolerance for archive research, would you please > tell me the problem and the fix for the alternator? > > Thanks > > Matthew M. Jurotich > > e-mail mail to: > phone : 301-286-5919 ====================== Hello Matthew: OMG ... You work for NASA. My fingerprints are all over the space station and on quite a few parts of the Shuttles. I do metal coatings for NASA. When it comes to the archives - I can't blame you, I have only a three step tolerance for the archives and AeroElectric as well. The only difference is I refuse to get into the back & forth Over - Engineered BS session with giftedly challenged. And I guess all their BS was not able to help you solve your problem. How much time and money did you invest into that problem? One fellow did hit on the problem ... Con-Grads to him. So what is the problem? There are two ground systems to the car. One goes from the battery to the fender/body. The other goes to the engine block. Guess what the engine block is made of? ALUMINUM, and we all know how poor aluminum is as a conductor. Remove the ground strap, wire wheel the area and the battery connector tab. Install an external STAR WASHER below and above the battery cable, add a washer and use a new bolt. After all that is done; spray the area with undercoating. It is a 15 to 30 minute job. It cost me lots of time swapping perfectly good alternators, replacing the battery (well, that was border line anyway). Check the area UNDER the Battery Tray, you will find more grounds there. I failed to heed my own advice ... CHECK THE GROUNDS! Don't just look at them, remove them, clean them and add more. My learning experience cost me $139. Barry "Chop'd Liver" "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third time." Yamashiada