Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:34 AM - Re: Let us not dilute the mission. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Metric vs English (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:55 AM - Re: Some tips on using self-sticking Velcro (Ernest Christley)
4. 06:17 AM - Flaked Regulator? (Michael Hinchcliff)
5. 06:31 AM - Re: Metric (Gilles Thesee)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Rogers, Bob J.)
7. 08:27 AM - Re: Re: Metric (Brett Ferrell)
8. 08:33 AM - Re: Flaked Regulator? (Deems Herring)
9. 08:41 AM - Re: Some tips on using self-sticking Velcro (Bill Boyd)
10. 08:53 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (JOHN TIPTON)
11. 09:22 AM - Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) (Don Owens)
12. 09:23 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Greg Young)
13. 10:06 AM - Homebrew AHRS? (Sean Stephens)
14. 10:06 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
15. 10:06 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (JOHN TIPTON)
16. 10:18 AM - Re: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
17. 10:38 AM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Kenneth Melvin)
18. 02:26 PM - B&C (Bob Lee)
19. 02:34 PM - Re: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) (Bob Lee)
20. 02:42 PM - Re: Homebrew AHRS? (David M.)
21. 05:04 PM - 24V 12V grounds (Pat Salvati)
22. 06:08 PM - Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Ed Anderson)
23. 07:42 PM - Re: 24V 12V grounds (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 07:55 PM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Bob McCallum)
25. 08:05 PM - Re: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) (Ken)
26. 08:27 PM - Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Let us not dilute the mission. |
At 09:38 PM 11/20/2006 -0600, you wrote:
><ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>>
>>Please tell us Carlos:
>>
>>Would the rest of the world be happier if we just caved in to radical Islam
>>and all wore burkas. Which Islam would that be, Shiite....we'd get suicide
>>bombed by the radical Kurds, Sunni....we'd get suicide bombed by the radical
>>Shiite's. Which would you prefer? Or would you like us to invite them all
>>in to the USA and treat them like second class citizens so that they could
<snip>
>When you've completed your assignments, get back to me & we'll talk. :-)
>
>Charlie
>(just a little old southern boy who believes that conservative beats
>neo-conservative any day)
By all means, DO continue to talk if it suits your mutual
purposes . . . but not here on the AeroElectric-List.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Metric vs English |
At 04:16 PM 11/20/2006 -0700, you wrote:
><fstringham@hotmail.com>
>
>Alright, I have stayed out of this one....but....as an old used up
>Chemistry teacher I would spend the first few weeks of every school year
>my best to explain how....from my view point and the rest of the sciencde
>community why the metric system of measurement IS Superior to the
>"english" system of measurement. With that said what ever system is used
>use it and always measure trice and cut once.
>
>Flame suit RV list approved so let it rip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think anyone has argued against the simplicity,
elegance and obvious utility of the metric system. It's
a simple-idea that stands on its own merits.
The debate (if it can be called that) was a discussion
that purported to illuminate personality traits of
both individuals and societies because of their present
positions on the time-line in the evolution of ideas,
customs, politics and economics.
I'll suggest again that the issues raised are exceedingly
complex and essentially "insolvable" without imposing
external forces that go against a foundation on which
this nation was created. Namely, one is free to do as
one wishes as long as their actions do not infringe on
the liberty of others. Potentially chaotic? Yes, but
a chaos which individuals are free to participate in
or not as they choose.
Forces capable of establishing any form of ideology
for any purpose come in the from of laws. Laws by their
very nature must have givers, watchdogs, adjudicators
and a system of compensating for or correcting transgressions.
When this much power is afforded any collective of
individuals, it must be bounded by limits lest the
collective become fond of using law to impose their
least whim upon the individual.
In this country, the idea was that the purpose of law
is singular . . . to protect liberty. This was recognized
and most clearly described by Frederick Bastiat 160 years
ago. See:
http://www.jim.com/bastiat.htm
Assume that one subscribes to these notions of liberty
and the purpose of law. Then pass all the "discussion"
about the metric system though the finely tuned filter
of individual liberty. We're left with the
simple-idea that the metric system is elegant
and a process to embrace and nurture. All the rest are
attacks on the person of others that serves
no purpose except to inflame and encourage those who
would subvert law to their own purposes for what ever
reason.
Again I will suggest that we filter our own words
before posting them here on the List. If offering
an opinion, do the words serve to enlighten or
are they simply a vent upon a condition over which
a society of honorable lawgivers has no control?
If the former, then your ideas are welcome under the
charter of improving on the best we know how to do.
If the later, then consider posting them in another
venue for they serve no good and valuable purpose here.
If we subscribe to this philosophy then there is no
reason for anyone here on the List to seek the
protection of "flame suits".
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Some tips on using self-sticking Velcro |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> He had
> to go get a pry bar to open the Velcro interface and we
> needed a heat gun to get the adhesive to let loose of the
> airplane when we were done. He's convinced.
>
I've used velcro strips to route the wiring in my tube framed Delta. 3M
sells a product at the big box hardware stores that is a roll of 6"
strips with a slot in one side. I wrap the strip around a tube and
through the slot, which allows me to cinch it down tight to the tube.
This will leave a layer of velcro between the wire and the tube. I
orient the strip so that the remainder will 'cup' or 'catch' the wires.
I space them about every 6 to 8 inches, and one on each side of a
corner. I don't pull the velcro down tight untill I think I have all
the wires routed, but then the strip will go around about 3 times. I
apply as much pressure as I can while wrapping it. I can pull a single
wire of a bundle through about 3 or 4 straps, unless it's around a
corner. In that case, I have to pull a loop into the corner and then
out to the other side. I haven't been able to pull of wire off of a
tube, yet. The velcro lays down very smooth once it has been rubbed
down good, and you have to search for the end with a fingernail if you
want to pull it up and adjust it. You can slide a single strap from
side to side, if you're patient.
It works well to bundle wires together also, but you can't get it as
tight as you can when you have the steel tube to pull against.
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 4
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| Subject: | Flaked Regulator? |
Hello Bob and All. I noticed in a friend's Cessna 152 that the ammeter
needle wags back and forth like a golden retriever's tail at a steak
dinner, except at half and not full deflection. He said it has always
done that. I turned the dome light on and noticed it dims and brightens
at the same frequency as the needle wag. I'm assuming the voltage
regulator has flaked out, but we all know what assumptions do. How
would you suggest troubleshooting this? Is this a real problem or a
just a nuisance? The limited avionics are all FAA TSO'd, so I'm
assuming they have adequate spike/surge protection built in, but I'm not
so sure a constant barrage of surge/spikes was considered in the design.
Please share your thoughts.
Michael H.
Message 5
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Bob and all,
>
> I'll suggest again that the issues raised are exceedingly
> complex and essentially "insolvable" without imposing
> external forces that go against a foundation on which
> this nation was created. Namely, one is free to do as
> one wishes as long as their actions do not infringe on
> the liberty of others.
It is true that in Europe, for instance, the use of legal units has been
enforced by law from the beginning.
The main purpose was to protect customers against errors and cheating
in commerce.
Whereas I understand that in your country many may feel that one is free
to use any unit he feels fit, is that really so ? Is a service station
for instance, really allowed to sell gas by the "Dame Jeanne", or
"demi-bouteille", so that some customers are embarrassed to compare
prices ? Even if customers agreed, wouldn't some lawyer find something
in the law that is against it ?
Just wondering,
Regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 6
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is placed in
the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is that the
flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion. Mostly, I
would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the flasher that
causes the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should not happen
and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to know, so that
I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function, please
explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
Bob;
Note 1 on the drawings you've linked to, states "The SSF-1 flasher will
not operate unless both outputs are loaded with a lamp. Hence the
requirement to transfer both lamps to the flasher for wig-wag priority
operation" By placing either 1 or the other switches but not both in
the centre position you are violating this condition, hence the flasher
does not operate correctly just as the note explains. (steady in one
case, berserk in the other)
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I installed my taxi and landing lights in my Mustang II
kitplane, using the WigWag system described by Bob Nuckols in his
published article http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
The WigWag flasher came from B&C Specialty. I am using
two independent 2-10 (three-way) switches with independent power sources
for each light. The system is wired per the instructions. Everything
works as it should, with one small exception, noted as item No. 6,
below.
1. Both switches down - everything is off
2. Both switches up - both taxi and landing lights are
on
3. Either switch up - the light for that switch is on
4. Both switches in the middle - power goes through the
WigWag flasher and the lights alternate on and off in about one second
intervals.
5. Taxi light switch (only) in the middle - light is on
but no flash.
6. Landing light switch (only) in the middle - FLASHER
GOES CRAZY!
In the last described position (no. 6.), the landing light
flickers and you can hear an audible buzz coming from the flasher. The
flasher seems to be vibrating rapidly (many times or dozens of times per
second) between on and off.
I think the vibrating mode occurs when the power runs
through the middle connector of the flasher, because when I change
connections from the flasher to the Landing and Taxi Light switches,
then the buzzing starts only when the other light switch is moved to the
middle.
I do not understand why one light merely turns on when a
single switch is moved to the middle (flasher) position but when the
other switch is moved (alone) to the middle position, the flasher goes
nuts.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange behavior?
Perhaps the answer lies in the way that the flasher works, but since I
do not know or understand the mechanism of the flasher, I cannot figure
it out. I guess the simple answer is, "Don't put a single switch in the
middle (flasher position)." But I would still like to know why this is
happening and whether there is any way to prevent it. I do not want to
inadvertently damage the flasher by accidentally triggering this
vibration mode and leaving it there.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
a
tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Message 7
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Quoting Gilles Thesee <Gilles.Thesee@ac-grenoble.fr>:
> It is true that in Europe, for instance, the use of legal units has been
> enforced by law from the beginning.
> The main purpose was to protect customers against errors and cheating
> in commerce.
>
> Whereas I understand that in your country many may feel that one is free
> to use any unit he feels fit, is that really so ? Is a service station
> for instance, really allowed to sell gas by the "Dame Jeanne", or
> "demi-bouteille", so that some customers are embarrassed to compare
> prices ? Even if customers agreed, wouldn't some lawyer find something
> in the law that is against it ?
>
> Just wondering,
>
> Regards,
> Gilles
> http://contrails.free.fr
Gilles,
I'll admit up front that I am not sure for all markets, or exactly where the law
is; but I will say that generally, in practice, yes I believe this is correct.
As long as you have a standard of measure, and can prove to the local auditor
that your dispensing of product meets the standards for repeatability, then
there is no issue. Thus, we have soda pop dispensed by the fluid ounce as well
as 1 and 2 liter bottles. A gasoline station must display a current auditor's
sticker stating that it does dispense gallons accurately, but I believe it
could easily do so in liters if they wished.
Likewise I may sell cat food in a 12 oz bag, while my competitor sells a 10 oz
bag for slightly less money. There is no conflict, though many supermarkets
include a "per oz" price on the label to help the consumer - this is voluntary.
The same is true on toilet paper, where one roll may be 1,000 sheets and
another only 850, there is no requirement to advertise the "per sheet" cost.
Caveat emptor. Part of a free society is the freedom to be foolish with your
money. The facts must be there, what you do with them is your personal
responsibility (at least until the lawyers screw it up).
B
PS: It appears that ATF requires alcohol to be in Metric:
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/dates.htm
and the FDA requires dual (English/SI) labelling - so in food and drugs you must
comply with these systems
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/laws/fpla.html
Message 8
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| Subject: | Flaked Regulator? |
Does the needle go in time with the flashing beacon? The beacon will draw a
bout 10 - 11 amps and will cause the needle to fluctuate. The power supply
is usually 2 sided so it can run a top and bottom beacon. Some planes with
1 beacon put a resistor on the other side of the power supply as a load to
stop the fluctuation.
Deems
From: cfi@conwaycorp.netTo: aeroelectric-list@matronics.comSubject: AeroEle
ctric-List: Flaked Regulator?Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:17:19 -0600
Hello Bob and All. I noticed in a friend=92s Cessna 152 that the ammeter n
eedle wags back and forth like a golden retriever=92s tail at a steak dinne
r, except at half and not full deflection. He said it has always done that
. I turned the dome light on and noticed it dims and brightens at the same
frequency as the needle wag. I=92m assuming the voltage regulator has fla
ked out, but we all know what assumptions do. How would you suggest troubl
eshooting this? Is this a real problem or a just a nuisance? The limited
avionics are all FAA TSO=92d, so I=92m assuming they have adequate spike/s
urge protection built in, but I=92m not so sure a constant barrage of surge
/spikes was considered in the design. Please share your thoughts.
Michael H.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself with gadgets on Windows Live Spaces
http://discoverspaces.live.com?source=hmtag1&loc=us
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Some tips on using self-sticking Velcro |
Sweet. Double sided printed circuit board chassis enclosure. One of
my favorite homebrewing techniques ;-)
-Bill B
do not archive
On 11/20/06, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote:
>
> In my various capacities as supplier to the OBAM aircraft
> industry and skunk-werkser on the TC side of the house, I've
> found many uses for the self-mounting, pre-stickied Velcro
> products sold by Hobby Lobby, WalMart and others. On of my
> favorites is a "Heavy Duty Adhesive, Industrial Strength"
> product I've been buying at WalMart in the crafts department.
>
> A 15 foot by 2" wide roll is about $8 as I recall. I've
> never encountered a situation where holding power of the
> Velcro was lacking but getting the adhesive to stick can
> be iffy on some surfaces.
>
> I've found that wiping the surface down with acetone (pure
> acetone available in cosmetics as nail polish remover. 8 oz
> for about $1.50). Then use your heat gun to warm the adhesive
> to as hot as you can stand while holding the Velcro in your
> fingers. Stroke it for a minute or so under the heat gun.
>
> Press into place firmly and know that the bond is somewhat
> time sensitive. It may take 24 hours to reach full bond
> strength. Putting this stuff down with the technique described
> has produced some amazing attachments . . . some have required
> the heat gun to re-soften the adhesive so I could pull the
> stuff up. I've used this technique to install remote mounted
> instrumentation packages in the hell-hole on airplanes and
> in the nose compartment with results that amazed folks I
> was working with. One skeptical technician didn't think Velcro
> would hold this 5 pound data acquisition signal conditioner
> in place.
>
> http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Data_Acquisition/Weeder_Module_DAS_1.jpg
>
> I invited him to remove it after I'd installed it. He had
> to go get a pry bar to open the Velcro interface and we
> needed a heat gun to get the adhesive to let loose of the
> airplane when we were done. He's convinced.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use
such a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates
each landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes:
surely two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect,
especially as it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a
continuous light can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
John (co-building RV9a) England
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J.
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is placed
in the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is that
the flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion.
Mostly, I would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the
flasher that causes the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should not
happen and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to know,
so that I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function, please
explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:54 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
Bob;
Note 1 on the drawings you've linked to, states "The SSF-1 flasher
will not operate unless both outputs are loaded with a lamp. Hence the
requirement to transfer both lamps to the flasher for wig-wag priority
operation" By placing either 1 or the other switches but not both in
the centre position you are violating this condition, hence the flasher
does not operate correctly just as the note explains. (steady in one
case, berserk in the other)
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J.
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I installed my taxi and landing lights in my Mustang II
kitplane, using the WigWag system described by Bob Nuckols in his
published article http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
The WigWag flasher came from B&C Specialty. I am using two
independent 2-10 (three-way) switches with independent power sources for
each light. The system is wired per the instructions. Everything works
as it should, with one small exception, noted as item No. 6, below.
1. Both switches down - everything is off
2. Both switches up - both taxi and landing lights are on
3. Either switch up - the light for that switch is on
4. Both switches in the middle - power goes through the
WigWag flasher and the lights alternate on and off in about one second
intervals.
5. Taxi light switch (only) in the middle - light is on but
no flash.
6. Landing light switch (only) in the middle - FLASHER GOES
CRAZY!
In the last described position (no. 6.), the landing light
flickers and you can hear an audible buzz coming from the flasher. The
flasher seems to be vibrating rapidly (many times or dozens of times per
second) between on and off.
I think the vibrating mode occurs when the power runs through
the middle connector of the flasher, because when I change connections
from the flasher to the Landing and Taxi Light switches, then the
buzzing starts only when the other light switch is moved to the middle.
I do not understand why one light merely turns on when a
single switch is moved to the middle (flasher) position but when the
other switch is moved (alone) to the middle position, the flasher goes
nuts.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange behavior?
Perhaps the answer lies in the way that the flasher works, but since I
do not know or understand the mechanism of the flasher, I cannot figure
it out. I guess the simple answer is, "Don't put a single switch in the
middle (flasher position)." But I would still like to know why this is
happening and whether there is any way to prevent it. I do not want to
inadvertently damage the flasher by accidentally triggering this
vibration mode and leaving it there.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com"
>www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co
mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aero
Electric-List
Message 11
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| Subject: | Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) |
Hi all, I would like some input on what would make others feel comfortable when
powering duel electronic ignitions. I plan to have night and IFR capability
in an RV-7. I have looked at Bob's schematics: Z-12 and Z-14. The Z-14 certainly
covers all the bases, but I hate to hang an extra battery up front if it
is not absolutely necessary. I am thinking that the Z-12 with the B&C 40 amp
alternator up front and a B&C 20 amp alternator on the vacuum pump pad and a
17 amp/hr battery that would be redundancy enough. Am I living on the edge?
Thanks for the input
Don Owens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76132#76132
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
The benefit of wig-wags, as well as alternating strobes, is that they
produce a sense of movement which is more readily detected by the eye than a
fixed position light, whether steady or flashing.
Regards,
Greg Young
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use such
a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates each
landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes: surely
two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect, especially as
it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a continuous light
can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
John (co-building RV9a) England
Message 13
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I've been scouring Google trying to find literature, schematics, etc. on
building an AHRS/ADAHRS. I've been unable to find anything that would
get me jump-started on a homebrew project.
If anyone has links that would help I'd appreciate it.
-Sean
Message 14
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
From:
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I would have to disagree John..At least from my own anecdotal
observations. Slow flashing landing lights get my attention much more
readily than a steady light.
The wig-wigs are used in addition to the strobes, strobes in fact are
not a requirement as far as I know but everyone fits them...At least
that used to be true for VFR, might be different for IFR ops?
The other benefit of the Wig-wag is if you use the wingtip landing
lights it is only half the heating effect on the plastic lens of the
sheared wingtip. Rumour has it that a 75W bulb will melt the lens if
left on for long periods.
I flew the Rv7a for the first time at night (albeit on a lighted runway)
yesterday and the 75W wig wags light the runway pretty well...If I was
at minimums on IFR at night I would probably switch them both on.
Wig wags also use half power as well.
Frank...Ex-pat Brit living in Oregon.
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use
such a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates
each landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes:
surely two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect,
especially as it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a
continuous light can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
John (co-building RV9a) England
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is
placed in the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is
that the flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion.
Mostly, I would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the
flasher that causes the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should
not happen and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to
know, so that I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function,
please explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:54 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
Bob;
Note 1 on the drawings you've linked to, states "The SSF-1
flasher will not operate unless both outputs are loaded with a lamp.
Hence the requirement to transfer both lamps to the flasher for wig-wag
priority operation" By placing either 1 or the other switches but not
both in the centre position you are violating this condition, hence the
flasher does not operate correctly just as the note explains. (steady in
one case, berserk in the other)
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I installed my taxi and landing lights in my
Mustang II kitplane, using the WigWag system described by Bob Nuckols in
his published article
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
The WigWag flasher came from B&C Specialty. I am
using two independent 2-10 (three-way) switches with independent power
sources for each light. The system is wired per the instructions.
Everything works as it should, with one small exception, noted as item
No. 6, below.
1. Both switches down - everything is off
2. Both switches up - both taxi and landing
lights are on
3. Either switch up - the light for that switch
is on
4. Both switches in the middle - power goes
through the WigWag flasher and the lights alternate on and off in about
one second intervals.
5. Taxi light switch (only) in the middle -
light is on but no flash.
6. Landing light switch (only) in the middle -
FLASHER GOES CRAZY!
In the last described position (no. 6.), the
landing light flickers and you can hear an audible buzz coming from the
flasher. The flasher seems to be vibrating rapidly (many times or
dozens of times per second) between on and off.
I think the vibrating mode occurs when the power
runs through the middle connector of the flasher, because when I change
connections from the flasher to the Landing and Taxi Light switches,
then the buzzing starts only when the other light switch is moved to the
middle.
I do not understand why one light merely turns on
when a single switch is moved to the middle (flasher) position but when
the other switch is moved (alone) to the middle position, the flasher
goes nuts.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange
behavior? Perhaps the answer lies in the way that the flasher works,
but since I do not know or understand the mechanism of the flasher, I
cannot figure it out. I guess the simple answer is, "Don't put a single
switch in the middle (flasher position)." But I would still like to
know why this is happening and whether there is any way to prevent it.
I do not want to inadvertently damage the flasher by accidentally
triggering this vibration mode and leaving it there.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use
such a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates
each landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes:
surely two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect,
especially as it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a
continuous light can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
John (co-building RV9a) England
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J.
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is placed
in the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is that
the flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion.
Mostly, I would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the
flasher that causes the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should not
happen and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to know,
so that I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function, please
explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:54 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
Bob;
Note 1 on the drawings you've linked to, states "The SSF-1 flasher
will not operate unless both outputs are loaded with a lamp. Hence the
requirement to transfer both lamps to the flasher for wig-wag priority
operation" By placing either 1 or the other switches but not both in
the centre position you are violating this condition, hence the flasher
does not operate correctly just as the note explains. (steady in one
case, berserk in the other)
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J.
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I installed my taxi and landing lights in my Mustang II
kitplane, using the WigWag system described by Bob Nuckols in his
published article http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
The WigWag flasher came from B&C Specialty. I am using two
independent 2-10 (three-way) switches with independent power sources for
each light. The system is wired per the instructions. Everything works
as it should, with one small exception, noted as item No. 6, below.
1. Both switches down - everything is off
2. Both switches up - both taxi and landing lights are on
3. Either switch up - the light for that switch is on
4. Both switches in the middle - power goes through the
WigWag flasher and the lights alternate on and off in about one second
intervals.
5. Taxi light switch (only) in the middle - light is on but
no flash.
6. Landing light switch (only) in the middle - FLASHER GOES
CRAZY!
In the last described position (no. 6.), the landing light
flickers and you can hear an audible buzz coming from the flasher. The
flasher seems to be vibrating rapidly (many times or dozens of times per
second) between on and off.
I think the vibrating mode occurs when the power runs through
the middle connector of the flasher, because when I change connections
from the flasher to the Landing and Taxi Light switches, then the
buzzing starts only when the other light switch is moved to the middle.
I do not understand why one light merely turns on when a
single switch is moved to the middle (flasher) position but when the
other switch is moved (alone) to the middle position, the flasher goes
nuts.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange behavior?
Perhaps the answer lies in the way that the flasher works, but since I
do not know or understand the mechanism of the flasher, I cannot figure
it out. I guess the simple answer is, "Don't put a single switch in the
middle (flasher position)." But I would still like to know why this is
happening and whether there is any way to prevent it. I do not want to
inadvertently damage the flasher by accidentally triggering this
vibration mode and leaving it there.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.comhref="http://w
ww.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.comhref="http://www.kitlog.com"
>www.kitlog.comhref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.co
mhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/
chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www
.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Aero
Electric-List
Message 16
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| Subject: | Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) |
Here is what I have.
No mechanical fuel pump...two FI electric pumps one in each wingroot.
Emag and Pmag (Pmag is self powering)...If I could have been certain the
SD8 had enough guts I would have bought 2*Emags.
I have a GNS430,main buss
GTX 327, Icom A200 (wired to endurance buss)
Odyssey 18AH battery.
Last night I ran the SD8 on the ground and was very surprised to find
that at only 2000RPM (lycoming) I had enough power to run one fuel pump
and all the electronics...This includes the main contactor. Certainly if
I added any lights the batt volts would drop.
Now if my main alt died in flight I might still switch over to the
endrance buss and shutdown the Emag and run the RPMs to 2600. But it
seems I don't have to go mad about turning everything off I can to
maintain 12.2v at the battery. In real life if I was cross country IFR I
would probably go to the minimum, i.e turn off the 430 and audio
panel...But hand fly vectors from ATC...Making sure I have plenty of
charge to the Odyssey.
I suspect the SD8 makes more power than advertised. This is intened as a
night IFR machine.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:21 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags)
--> <springcanyon@methow.com>
Hi all, I would like some input on what would make others feel
comfortable when powering duel electronic ignitions. I plan to have
night and IFR capability in an RV-7. I have looked at Bob's schematics:
Z-12 and Z-14. The Z-14 certainly covers all the bases, but I hate to
hang an extra battery up front if it is not absolutely necessary. I am
thinking that the Z-12 with the B&C 40 amp alternator up front and a B&C
20 amp alternator on the vacuum pump pad and a 17 amp/hr battery that
would be redundancy enough. Am I living on the edge?
Thanks for the input
Don Owens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76132#76132
Message 17
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
With respect to the visibility aspects of steady vs flashing lights, it
should be noted that the Lockheed Hudson in British Maritime use during WW11
used a steady bright light on each leading edge to render the aircraft less
starkly visible against a bright sky when attacking U-Boats from up-sun.
Kenneth Melvin
P51 N51KX
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
TIPTON
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use such
a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates each
landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes: surely
two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect, especially as
it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a continuous light
can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
John (co-building RV9a) England
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is
placed in the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is that
the flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion. Mostly, I
would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the flasher that causes
the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should not
happen and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to know, so
that I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function,
please explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:54 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
Bob;
Note 1 on the drawings you've linked to, states "The SSF-1 flasher
will not operate unless both outputs are loaded with a lamp. Hence the
requirement to transfer both lamps to the flasher for wig-wag priority
operation" By placing either 1 or the other switches but not both in the
centre position you are violating this condition, hence the flasher does not
operate correctly just as the note explains. (steady in one case, berserk in
the other)
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J. <mailto:BRogers@fdic.gov>
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I installed my taxi and landing lights in my Mustang
II kitplane, using the WigWag system described by Bob Nuckols in his
published article http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/WigWag/WigWag.pdf
The WigWag flasher came from B&C Specialty. I am
using two independent 2-10 (three-way) switches with independent power
sources for each light. The system is wired per the instructions.
Everything works as it should, with one small exception, noted as item No.
6, below.
1. Both switches down - everything is off
2. Both switches up - both taxi and landing lights
are on
3. Either switch up - the light for that switch is
on
4. Both switches in the middle - power goes through
the WigWag flasher and the lights alternate on and off in about one second
intervals.
5. Taxi light switch (only) in the middle - light
is on but no flash.
6. Landing light switch (only) in the middle -
FLASHER GOES CRAZY!
In the last described position (no. 6.), the landing
light flickers and you can hear an audible buzz coming from the flasher.
The flasher seems to be vibrating rapidly (many times or dozens of times per
second) between on and off.
I think the vibrating mode occurs when the power runs
through the middle connector of the flasher, because when I change
connections from the flasher to the Landing and Taxi Light switches, then
the buzzing starts only when the other light switch is moved to the middle.
I do not understand why one light merely turns on when
a single switch is moved to the middle (flasher) position but when the other
switch is moved (alone) to the middle position, the flasher goes nuts.
Does anyone have an explanation for this strange
behavior? Perhaps the answer lies in the way that the flasher works, but
since I do not know or understand the mechanism of the flasher, I cannot
figure it out. I guess the simple answer is, "Don't put a single switch in
the middle (flasher position)." But I would still like to know why this is
happening and whether there is any way to prevent it. I do not want to
inadvertently damage the flasher by accidentally triggering this vibration
mode and leaving it there.
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
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Message 18
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I just tried to order an LRC3-14 linear voltage regulator from B&C. I
figured that I would go for the battery temperature option to give my
battery the best attention that I could. The guys at B&C said that you only
need the battery temperature option if you are somewhere like the north
pole. I don't get it, doesn't the battery need a different level of charge
from summer to winter? I don't understand why B&C is reluctant to sell the
battery temperature option on their LRC3-14 voltage regulater. Anybody
understand the physics of that recomendation?
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA
91% done only 65% to go!
Message 19
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| Subject: | Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) |
Don,
I'm right there on the edge with you. I've got dual electronic ignition and
a modified version of Z-13. I have a second battery buss that only powers
the secondary ignition and fuel pump. That way the only single point of
failure is the bolt at the battery post. Can you say loc-tite, castle nut
and safety wire! The secondary ignition will be grounded directly to the
battery also. I have a 40amp primary alternator and a 20 amp back up dynamo
that runs on the endurance bus so if the master contactor craps out I'm
still flying with half power (electrical).
Regards,
Bob Lee
N52BL KR2
Suwanee, GA
91% done only 65% to go!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don
Owens
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:21 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags)
<springcanyon@methow.com>
Hi all, I would like some input on what would make others feel comfortable
when powering duel electronic ignitions. I plan to have night and IFR
capability in an RV-7. I have looked at Bob's schematics: Z-12 and Z-14.
The Z-14 certainly covers all the bases, but I hate to hang an extra battery
up front if it is not absolutely necessary. I am thinking that the Z-12
with the B&C 40 amp alternator up front and a B&C 20 amp alternator on the
vacuum pump pad and a 17 amp/hr battery that would be redundancy enough. Am
I living on the edge?
Thanks for the input
Don Owens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=76132#76132
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Homebrew AHRS? |
check out 3 axis accelerometers and 3 axis magnetometers.
David M.
still trying to get a handle on it myself.
Sean Stephens wrote:
> <sean@stephensville.com>
>
> I've been scouring Google trying to find literature, schematics, etc.
> on building an AHRS/ADAHRS. I've been unable to find anything that
> would get me jump-started on a homebrew project.
>
> If anyone has links that would help I'd appreciate it.
>
> -Sean
>
>
Message 21
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I have a question and I'm in search of an answer. I have a 24V system with a 24/12
volt 15A converter . Can the output ground of the converter (12V) use the
same single point ground as the 24V, or is it necessary to supply a second dedicated
ground point for the 12V ?
Thanks,
Pat
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Homebrew AHRS? |
Hi Sean,
Try out this URL http://www.aerospectra.com/efis/svis.htm
Dr Jim Hauser has a book worth getting on the basics as well as the
components to get started.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW
http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Stephens" <sean@stephensville.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:04 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Homebrew AHRS?
> <sean@stephensville.com>
>
> I've been scouring Google trying to find literature, schematics, etc. on
> building an AHRS/ADAHRS. I've been unable to find anything that would get
> me jump-started on a homebrew project.
>
> If anyone has links that would help I'd appreciate it.
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 24V 12V grounds |
At 05:02 PM 11/21/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>I have a question and I'm in search of an answer. I have a 24V system with
>a 24/12 volt 15A converter . Can the output ground of the converter (12V)
>use the same single point ground as the 24V, or is it necessary to supply
>a second dedicated ground point for the 12V ?
Tie them all together . . . preferably at carefully
crafted locations designed to minimize the number of
grounds and risks for ground-loop noise. See Figure
Z-15 in . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
Bob;
When the notes say "won't operate" they don't necessarily mean sit there
dormant doing nothing. They mean won't give the desired or expected
result. This is exactly what is happening in your case. I don't know
positively for sure, but expect that this flasher's output is through a
double throw relay with both the normally open and normally closed
contacts also wired to a time delay on and time delay off circuit
operating the coil. The results you are getting are possibly explained
by the one light being connected to the NC contact therefore turning the
lamp "on". Connecting the other lamp to the NO output which is the "turn
on timer" circuit, also momentarily closes the relay turning on the
lamp, but instantaneously it turns off again because there is no load on
the other output, thus putting the timer into a "buzzer" mode where the
action of turning on the relay turns it off. With both loads connected
the on-off action of the timer operates correctly causing the relay
contacts to rhythmically transfer, making the two outputs alternately
turn on for roughly equal amounts of time. (poor explanation, I know,
but hopefully you get the idea) The "buzzer" action is so fast that the
lamp only appears to glow, or flicker, because the "on" time is so
short.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: Rogers, Bob J.
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
I can accept the flasher not operating when one switch only is placed
in the center position - that is what I expected. My problem is that
the flasher DOES operate, albeit in a wild, uncontrolled fashion.
Mostly, I would like to know what it is about the mechanism of the
flasher that causes the odd behavior.
Another possibility is that the rapid on-off vibration should not
happen and that the flasher is defective. If so, I would like to know,
so that I can get a good one.
If someone understands how the flasher is supposed to function, please
explain it.
Thanks,
Bob
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Duel LSI ignitions (No mags) |
Sounds reasonable to me as long as like the B&C 8, the B&C 20 runs fine
with the big capacitor in the circuit but no battery?
FWIW I am running Z-14 with two 8 AH batteries for the same total
battery weight although more expense. They parallel during cranking but
one will start the subaru just fine. I've found that with a dead battery
my John Deere PM alternator pops the overvoltage protection and fries
the regulator so it would likely be useless without a battery in the
circuit such as after a failed battery contactor or whatever. Probably
overkill but the nice thing about Z-14 is that my two ignitions etc. do
not share any common parts or wiring.
Ken
Don Owens wrote:
>
>Hi all, I would like some input on what would make others feel comfortable when
powering duel electronic ignitions. I plan to have night and IFR capability
in an RV-7. I have looked at Bob's schematics: Z-12 and Z-14. The Z-14 certainly
covers all the bases, but I hate to hang an extra battery up front if it
is not absolutely necessary. I am thinking that the Z-12 with the B&C 40 amp
alternator up front and a B&C 20 amp alternator on the vacuum pump pad and a
17 amp/hr battery that would be redundancy enough. Am I living on the edge?
>
>Thanks for the input
>Don Owens
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz |
At 10:37 AM 11/21/2006 -0800, you wrote:
>
>With respect to the visibility aspects of steady vs flashing lights, it
>should be noted that the Lockheed Hudson in British Maritime use during WW11
>used a steady bright light on each leading edge to render the aircraft less
>starkly visible against a bright sky when attacking U-Boats from up-sun.
>Kenneth Melvin
But those lights were adjustable with the notion of having
them closely emulate the color temperature of the background
sky. If the backdrop were clouds, the light would have the opposite
effect and make the aircraft stand out like a sore thumb.
When Lopresti first offered the hi-intensity automotive lamps
for aircraft, we installed on in our flight test Bonanza. On a
clear day, the tower could not see the new light against the
sunlit clear sky. Strobes are also hard to see against a sunlit
cloudless sky. Incandescent lamps have much redder color
and stand out nicely against a daytime sky.
>P51 N51KX
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN
>TIPTON
>Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:53 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wig-Wag Makes Strange Buzz
>
>I'm intrigued by this 'Wig-Wag' system used in the US as we don't use such
>a thing (I'm here in England by the way)
>
>Is the 'Wig-Wag' instead of strobes - and if the 'Wig-Wag' alternates each
>landing light, only one landing light is on at any one time - yes: surely
>two landing lights would give better i.e. twice, the effect, especially as
>it has been proved (and please don't ask me where) that a continuous light
>can just a easily be seen as a flashing light.
Perhaps "SEEN" but not "NOTICED". A wig-wag is useful only
when the subtended visual angle between the two lamps is large
enough to produce perceivable "motion". Suppose your lights are
25 feet apart on wing of your airplane. A person with 20/20
vision would just perceive wig-wag motion when the subtended angle
between the two lights was on the order of 5 arc-minutes apart.
This would happen at about 17,000 feet or just over three miles.
It's not the on-off flashing that gets attention but the apparent
motion of the light moving from one side of the airplane to the
other. At a mile away, the motion would be about 15 arc seconds
and quite attention getting.
Features that enhance attention getting is color temperature
markedly different from background behind you and the appearance
of motion and the period of the motion 1 to 3 excursions per
second.
Railroad grade crossing signals used to feature mechanical
wig-wags like:
http://www.wig-wag-trains.com/wigwag3.jpg
Some of these are still in service but most use the
more familiar . . .
http://k47.pbase.com/g4/93/584893/2/62014379.1IKNZYgt.jpg
The principal of a pair alternately illuminated lights is
the same . . . generate a perception of motion.
Years ago when we started installing the incandescent
Aeroflash beacons on Cessnas, there was a lot of objection
to the flashing of panel lights when the 12A bulb was
cycled on and off. Since our flasher modules would handle
two lamps, we tried on lamp on top of vertical fin and
the other on the bottom of the fuselage. Vertical
separation was on the order of 10' so you had to be less
than a mile away before the alternately flashing lights
would be perceived to have vertical motion as opposed to
looking like a single, always lit lamp.
So it isn't just the flash but a combination of things
most important of which is appearance of motion that makes
the wig-wag system work well. Got to study these issues in
detail back in my accident investigation and courtroom
presentations days.
Bob . . .
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