---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/25/06: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:12 AM - One more Z-19 try! (Bill Bradburry) 2. 06:43 AM - Re: Auto-pilots (Bob Verwey) 3. 07:20 AM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:41 AM - Re: Auto-pilots (Earl_Schroeder) 5. 09:59 AM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (Ken) 6. 10:31 AM - Re: Auto-pilots (Ed Holyoke) 7. 11:16 AM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (Jim Duckett) 8. 11:36 AM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (B Tomm) 9. 12:27 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (Kevin Horton) 10. 12:39 PM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (Kevin Horton) 11. 01:17 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (David M.) 12. 02:07 PM - multiple engine leads from one source (TimRhod@aol.com) 13. 02:20 PM - Re: One more Z-19 try! (Greg) 14. 03:08 PM - Re: Fw: Ampmeter reading (Dale Ensing) 15. 03:30 PM - Re: Second Pump Option on Z-19 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 03:52 PM - Re: multiple engine leads from one source (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 04:48 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (SteinAir, Inc.) 18. 06:06 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (Kevin Horton) 19. 06:09 PM - : Hugo Rv10#40456 () 20. 06:16 PM - Hugo Rv10#40456 () 21. 06:59 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (Stein Bruch) 22. 07:08 PM - Re: multiple engine leads from one source (Stein Bruch) 23. 08:06 PM - Re: multiple engine leads from one source (TimRhod@aol.com) 24. 08:13 PM - Re: Auto-pilots (G McNutt) 25. 08:33 PM - Re: multiple engine leads from one source (David M.) 26. 10:43 PM - Re: Icom A200-Help! (jetboy) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:45 AM PST US From: Bill Bradburry Subject: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot is on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored for days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) Here tis' again: *Bob, and others, I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying to follow the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single alternator. Looking at the engine primary and secondary circuit, I need to install a primary and secondary fuel pump, plus I want to power the coils and the injectors off of the battery buss. How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump diode output and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar circuits for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! Bill B ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:32 AM PST US From: "Bob Verwey" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots OBAM, Heading select & alt hold, coupled GPS would be nice! Thanx Bob Verwey A35 Bonanza et al _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: 24 Nov 2006 08:25 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots On 24-Nov-06, at 10:44 AM, Bob Verwey wrote: Hey listers, I'm looking around at auto-pilots. Obviously searched the net a bit, but still wondering, any recommendations from the list? Bob Verwey A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW Do you need an installation for a type-certificated aircraft, or amateur-built? What capabilities do you want? Wing leveler only? Heading select? Altitude hold? Airspeed hold? Vertical speed hold? Altitude preselect? Coupled ILS? Coupled GPS? Coupled approach VNAV? Kevin Horton RV-8 (Finishing Kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! At 08:11 AM 11/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of >discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot is >on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored for days >even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( > >Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my >own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) > >Here tis' again: Yes it has. I've been pondering the underlying philosophy behind what I will offer later today. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:59 AM PST US From: Earl_Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots I have the Pictorial Pilot and AlTrak so I vote for TruTrak! I would have invested in the ADI Pilot if it was available when I purchased. Both work great in my Lancair. Earl Bob Verwey wrote: > > OBAM, Heading select & alt hold, coupled GPS would be nice! > Thanx > Bob Verwey > A35 Bonanza et al > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *Kevin Horton > *Sent:* 24 Nov 2006 08:25 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots > > On 24-Nov-06, at 10:44 AM, Bob Verwey wrote: > >> Hey listers, >> I'm looking around at auto-pilots. Obviously searched the net a bit, >> but still wondering, any recommendations from the list? >> Bob Verwey >> A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW > > > Do you need an installation for a type-certificated aircraft, or > amateur-built? What capabilities do you want? Wing leveler only? > Heading select? Altitude hold? Airspeed hold? Vertical speed hold? > Altitude preselect? Coupled ILS? Coupled GPS? Coupled approach VNAV? > > Kevin Horton > RV-8 (Finishing Kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > * > * > > > * > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:55 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! Unless one is familiar with rotary engines there is perhaps little that can be said. Will the thing continue to run and make sufficient power to stay airborne if either primary or secondary ignition or injectors fail? No point have multiple power sources if it just multiplies the things that can kill the engine. I'd suggest you look at what others have done and then ask specific questions. Have you looked at the Real World Solutions website? Ken Bill Bradburry wrote: > > > My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of > discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot > is on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored > for days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( > > Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my > own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) > > Here tis' again: > > *Bob, and others, > I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying to > follow the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single alternator. > Looking at the engine primary and secondary circuit, I need to > install a primary and secondary fuel pump, plus I want to power the > coils and the injectors off of the battery buss. > How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump diode > output and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? > What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar > circuits for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? > I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. > Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! > Bill B ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:31:49 AM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots I'm a fan of TruTrak. http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsproducts.html I've chosen TruTrak for my RV-6 project. I'm flying a Trio autopilot in our RV and it works well. http://www.trioavionics.com/index.htm You'll find happy customers of both companies out there. Pax, Ed -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Verwey Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:42 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots OBAM, Heading select & alt hold, coupled GPS would be nice! Thanx Bob Verwey A35 Bonanza et al _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: 24 Nov 2006 08:25 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots On 24-Nov-06, at 10:44 AM, Bob Verwey wrote: Hey listers, I'm looking around at auto-pilots. Obviously searched the net a bit, but still wondering, any recommendations from the list? Bob Verwey A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW Do you need an installation for a type-certificated aircraft, or amateur-built? What capabilities do you want? Wing leveler only? Heading select? Altitude hold? Airspeed hold? Vertical speed hold? Altitude preselect? Coupled ILS? Coupled GPS? Coupled approach VNAV? Kevin Horton RV-8 (Finishing Kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ch ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:12 AM PST US From: "Jim Duckett" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! Bill, First, you never said how you intend to manage the engine (ie fuel, timing, mixture, fuel pressure, and such). IMHO the eaisiest way to do so is to utilize the EMC (engine management computer). In doing so many of your queries will become mute. The computer generally will manage all of these and as far as powering from the battery bus, it doesn't care where the power comes from. Some systems (such as Ford) utilize primary and secondary fuel pumps, it depends on the operating parameters like timing advance curves, return fuel pressure, coil dwell, and in general the design of the system. If primary and secondary components are needed to maintain your system, the computer will be designed to manage them. If you just want redundancy, one of the easiest ways is to duplicaate that portion of the system with a seperate circuit. Having ran a hot rod shop for many, many years, we have done conversions on just about every kind of vehicle. As a general rule, we may modify the parameters of the computer and streamline the sensors but, we hardly ever try to re-invent the management system itself. A place to start with Mazda powerplants is Adkins Rotary Specialties out of Tacoma, Washington. There are several ohters that are really knowledgeable but, we had excellent luck working with them on Mazda type situations. As far as reprograming the computer, there are several outfits that can do just that. One of the one's we use can actually design and build a totally new EMC for the application if our requirements are that far outside of the O.E.M. spec.s.(really exotic). Just a suggestion... Jim Duckett, RV-7A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Bradburry" Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! > > > My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of > discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot is > on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored for days > even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( > > Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my > own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) > > Here tis' again: > > *Bob, and others, > I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying to follow > the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single alternator. Looking at the > engine primary and secondary circuit, I need to install a primary and > secondary fuel pump, plus I want to power the coils and the injectors > off of the battery buss. > How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump diode output > and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? > What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar circuits > for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? > I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. > Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! > Bill B > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:36:14 AM PST US From: "B Tomm" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! Bill, Your needs are similar to what us Subaru guys need to do. So while I'm not there yet, may I suggest you look at Eggenfellner.com for their solutions. The needs are very similar to a Rotary setup. They have many flying and many more under construction. Theirs is based on the Expbus but I think it may be changing. Z-19 based system is what I'm wanting to do but don't know enough yet to advise you. Bevan RV7A Eggenfellner H6 on order -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! Unless one is familiar with rotary engines there is perhaps little that can be said. Will the thing continue to run and make sufficient power to stay airborne if either primary or secondary ignition or injectors fail? No point have multiple power sources if it just multiplies the things that can kill the engine. I'd suggest you look at what others have done and then ask specific questions. Have you looked at the Real World Solutions website? Ken Bill Bradburry wrote: > > > My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of > discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot > is on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored > for days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( > > Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my > own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) > > Here tis' again: > > *Bob, and others, > I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying to > follow the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single alternator. > Looking at the engine primary and secondary circuit, I need to > install a primary and secondary fuel pump, plus I want to power the > coils and the injectors off of the battery buss. > How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump diode > output and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? > What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar > circuits for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? > I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. > Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! > Bill B ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:59 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots There are many happy customers of both the TruTrak and Trio autopilots. They both have alt hold and coupled lateral GPS. But, neither one offers heading select. They both have track select, using track from the GPS. This isn't the same as heading select, but you could manually turn to the desired heading, then have the autopilot hold the current track. If you want heading select, I think you would need to purchase a Blue Mountain EFIS system and their autopilot. Or maybe S-Tec + an expensive heading gyro with a heading output. Heading select requires a gyro system that outputs heading, which is generally fairly expensive. Some of the newer low cost EFIS systems have an AHRS with a magnetic field sensor to get heading, but I don't think any of them output the same type of signal as a gyro with heading output, so you can't use them in place of a mechanical gryo, unless the autopilot was built around the AHRS, as with Blue Mountain. Kevin Horton On 25 Nov 2006, at 09:41, Bob Verwey wrote: > > OBAM, Heading select & alt hold, coupled GPS would be nice! > Thanx > Bob Verwey > A35 Bonanza et al > > > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > Sent: 24 Nov 2006 08:25 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots > > On 24-Nov-06, at 10:44 AM, Bob Verwey wrote: > >> Hey listers, >> I'm looking around at auto-pilots. Obviously searched the net a >> bit, but still wondering, any recommendations from the list? >> Bob Verwey >> A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW > > > Do you need an installation for a type-certificated aircraft, or > amateur-built? What capabilities do you want? Wing leveler only? > Heading select? Altitude hold? Airspeed hold? Vertical speed hold? > Altitude preselect? Coupled ILS? Coupled GPS? Coupled approach VNAV? > > Kevin Horton > RV-8 (Finishing Kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http:// > www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http:// > www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/ > chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List _- > =========================================================== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:04 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! One way to do multiple power sources for critical systems is to have power from each bus going through a diode to the device of interest. That way the critical system will continue to receive power even if one of the power sources fails, but a fault on one bus cannot take out the other bus, as the diodes provide protection. This approach is used quite a bit in type-certificated aircraft with critical systems. The critical systems should also be designed so that no single failure of the system can prevent successful completion of the flight. And, there should be a way to check for dormant failures on some periodic basis (e.g. if you use diodes to provide multiple power sources - you would want some way to confirm that both diodes were functional). Kevin Horton On 25 Nov 2006, at 13:01, Ken wrote: > > Unless one is familiar with rotary engines there is perhaps little > that can be said. Will the thing continue to run and make > sufficient power to stay airborne if either primary or secondary > ignition or injectors fail? No point have multiple power sources if > it just multiplies the things that can kill the engine. I'd > suggest you look at what others have done and then ask specific > questions. Have you looked at the Real World Solutions website? > Ken > > > Bill Bradburry wrote: > >> >> >> My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots >> of discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only >> one foot is on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has >> been ignored for days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of >> the month! {:<( >> >> Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on >> my own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) >> >> Here tis' again: >> >> *Bob, and others, >> I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying >> to follow the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single >> alternator. Looking at the engine primary and secondary >> circuit, I need to install a primary and secondary fuel pump, >> plus I want to power the coils and the injectors off of the >> battery buss. >> How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump >> diode output and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? >> What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar >> circuits for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? >> I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. >> Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! >> Bill B > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:47 PM PST US From: "David M." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots If I can determine and find the right stepper motors, I plan to build my own :) David M. Bob Verwey wrote: > Hey listers, > I'm looking around at auto-pilots. Obviously searched the net a bit, > but still wondering, any recommendations from the list? > > Bob Verwey > A35 Bonanza ZU-DLW > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:07:29 PM PST US From: TimRhod@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source Does anyone know if you can pull multiple leads off of CHT probes, EGT probes, and Oil Temp to feed two different engine analysis systems. I have a Vision Micro system VM1000 and now a new Grand Rapids EIS. I would Like to use both as back up but would also like not to have to install duplicate CHT, EGT, oil temp Probes. Thanks Tim ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:15 PM PST US From: "Greg" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! Bill, did you look at the drawing I posted on the Rotary list, is there some problem that you see with my system? Greg > > Bill, > > Your needs are similar to what us Subaru guys need to do. So while I'm > not > there yet, may I suggest you look at Eggenfellner.com for their solutions. > The needs are very similar to a Rotary setup. They have many flying and > many more under construction. Theirs is based on the Expbus but I think > it > may be changing. Z-19 based system is what I'm wanting to do but don't > know > enough yet to advise you. > > Bevan > RV7A > Eggenfellner H6 on order > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:01 AM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: One more Z-19 try! > > > Unless one is familiar with rotary engines there is perhaps little that > can > be said. Will the thing continue to run and make sufficient power to stay > airborne if either primary or secondary ignition or injectors fail? > No point have multiple power sources if it just multiplies the things that > can kill the engine. I'd suggest you look at what others have done and > then > ask specific questions. Have you looked at the Real World Solutions > website? > Ken > > > Bill Bradburry wrote: > >> >> >> My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of >> discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot >> is on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored >> for days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( >> >> Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my >> own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) >> >> Here tis' again: >> >> *Bob, and others, >> I am installing a fuel injected Mazda rotary engine and trying to >> follow the Z-19 guidelines for dual battery, single alternator. >> Looking at the engine primary and secondary circuit, I need to >> install a primary and secondary fuel pump, plus I want to power the >> coils and the injectors off of the battery buss. >> How should I do this? I suppose I could take the fuel pump diode >> output and switch it to either of the two fuel pumps??? >> What about the coils and injectors? Should I set up similar >> circuits for them, or is there a better way to reduce parts??? >> I would appreciate any guidance you guys could give me. >> Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving! >> Bill B > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:30 PM PST US From: "Dale Ensing" Subject: Re: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Ampmeter reading Carlos, Only similarity to my system is the EXP bus and the location of the sensor in the line, so therefore not much to go on, but mine does not show any fluctuation as you describe. You do not indicate any load on the EXP bus when you are running the engine. Try putting about a 10 amp load on the system and let us know results. Dale Ensing do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Carlos Trigo To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.csom Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 7:14 PM Subject: Fw: AeroElectric-List: Ampmeter reading Since I only got 1 answer (thanks Tim), here it goes again: Bob et all I installed a digital Ampmeter, connected to a 50mV Shunt which is installed in the #6 cable which comes from the alternator (Subaru engine) to my Exp Bus board. I assume that this ampmeter indicates the current being produced by the alternator, obviously with the engine running. But, every time I run the engine (stil at my garage, not yet flying), the ampmeter indication runs very quickly from, let's say 13.7 down to 8.2, then up to 14,6, again down and again up, very quickly. Why am I geting this kind of reading? Anything wrong or it's just indicating what it shoud? Carlos ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:37 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Second Pump Option on Z-19 At 09:20 AM 11/25/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > >At 08:11 AM 11/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>My original question has generated absolutely no interest!! Lots of >>discussion of measurement systems, are you grounded when only one foot is >>on the floor, etc., but my silly little question has been ignored for >>days even when it was embroiled in the screwup of the month! {:<( >> >>Surely you guys don't want me to have to go and figure this out on my >>own!! My blood would be on your hands!! {:<) >> >>Here tis' again: > > Yes it has. I've been pondering the underlying > philosophy behind what I will offer later today. Without knowing more about how tollerant your engine engine is with various failures of hardware, I'm presuming that you're interested in Figure Z-19 but noted that it supports only one fuel pump. After some pondering of the failure modes, it seems practical that your second pump simply be added to one of the battery busses (in this case the Main Battery bus) as shown in revision M to Figure Z-19 as posted here . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/ACAD_Architecture_Dwgs/Z19M.dwg http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z19M_1.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z19M_2.pdf The primary pump and ECS both get supplied from dual power sources with no single points of failure upstream of the diodes as before. Obviously, failure of #1 pump stops the engine so if you want a second pump, it's sufficient to power it from one of the battery busses through it's own switch. I presume you'll have a fuel pressure gage so to pre-flight, you turn on the #2 pump momentarily to watch for rise in fuel pressure before you power up the engine using the #1 pump in normal operation. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:08 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source At 05:05 PM 11/25/2006 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know if you can pull multiple leads off of CHT probes, EGT >probes, and Oil Temp to feed two different engine analysis systems. I >have a Vision Micro system VM1000 and now a new Grand Rapids EIS. I >would Like to use both as back up but would also like not to have to >install duplicate CHT, EGT, oil temp Probes. Thanks Tim You can . . . IF. It's dependent upon the signal conditioning circuitry in the two instruments. Some systems will tolerate paralleling as you've suggested but without seeing schematics of the two systems and/or talking with the designers, it's not possible to make a recommendation. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:56 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots Hi Kevin, Almost right.....but...Even the lowest priced TruTrak has an internal magentometer (along with a little gyro/accelerometer) that allows you to fly the airplane in magentic heading mode and select the heading in 1 degree increments, or you can steer to a new magnetic heading. Naturally you have to calibrate the thing before doing that, but the TruTrak's have been this way since day one. I'm not 100% sure about Trio's AP's (even though I sell those too) but I don't have one of theirs installed in my plane....whereas I've been flying behind the TruTrak stuff for awhile now. All of the above can be accomplished with the GPS removed from the aircraft. Then it won't follow a course, but the magenetic heading is the "backup" in case the GPS signal gets inturrepted or doesn't work, etc... It's much nicer to have the GPS hooked to either of them, put a flightplan or "direct 2" in the GPS, hit the NAV button and let go! Either way, you'll be happy! Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin >Horton >Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 2:26 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots > > > > >There are many happy customers of both the TruTrak and Trio >autopilots. They both have alt hold and coupled lateral GPS. But, >neither one offers heading select. They both have track select, >using track from the GPS. This isn't the same as heading select, but >you could manually turn to the desired heading, then have the >autopilot hold the current track. > >If you want heading select, I think you would need to purchase a Blue >Mountain EFIS system and their autopilot. Or maybe S-Tec + an >expensive heading gyro with a heading output. > >Heading select requires a gyro system that outputs heading, which is >generally fairly expensive. Some of the newer low cost EFIS systems >have an AHRS with a magnetic field sensor to get heading, but I don't >think any of them output the same type of signal as a gyro with >heading output, so you can't use them in place of a mechanical gryo, >unless the autopilot was built around the AHRS, as with Blue Mountain. > >Kevin Horton > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:39 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots Stein, I did look at the TruTrak web site before posting, and found no mention of a heading select mode, but digging deeper now I see some mention in the Quick Reference Guide for the DigiTrak. The info in the Quick Reference Guide is a bit spartan though. If you want to fly a particular heading (vice a track), how do you tell the autopilot to turn to that heading? Can the heading mode be used if the GPS is functional? Kevin On 25 Nov 2006, at 19:47, SteinAir, Inc. wrote: > > > Hi Kevin, > > Almost right.....but...Even the lowest priced TruTrak has an internal > magentometer (along with a little gyro/accelerometer) that allows > you to fly > the airplane in magentic heading mode and select the heading in 1 > degree > increments, or you can steer to a new magnetic heading. Naturally > you have > to calibrate the thing before doing that, but the TruTrak's have > been this > way since day one. I'm not 100% sure about Trio's AP's (even > though I sell > those too) but I don't have one of theirs installed in my > plane....whereas > I've been flying behind the TruTrak stuff for awhile now. > > All of the above can be accomplished with the GPS removed from the > aircraft. > Then it won't follow a course, but the magenetic heading is the > "backup" in > case the GPS signal gets inturrepted or doesn't work, etc... It's > much nicer > to have the GPS hooked to either of them, put a flightplan or > "direct 2" in > the GPS, hit the NAV button and let go! > > Either way, you'll be happy! > > Cheers, > Stein. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of >> Kevin >> Horton >> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 2:26 PM >> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots >> >> >> >> >> There are many happy customers of both the TruTrak and Trio >> autopilots. They both have alt hold and coupled lateral GPS. But, >> neither one offers heading select. They both have track select, >> using track from the GPS. This isn't the same as heading select, but >> you could manually turn to the desired heading, then have the >> autopilot hold the current track. >> >> If you want heading select, I think you would need to purchase a Blue >> Mountain EFIS system and their autopilot. Or maybe S-Tec + an >> expensive heading gyro with a heading output. >> >> Heading select requires a gyro system that outputs heading, which is >> generally fairly expensive. Some of the newer low cost EFIS systems >> have an AHRS with a magnetic field sensor to get heading, but I don't >> think any of them output the same type of signal as a gyro with >> heading output, so you can't use them in place of a mechanical gryo, >> unless the autopilot was built around the AHRS, as with Blue >> Mountain. >> >> Kevin Horton >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:09 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: : Hugo Rv10#40456 Hi All, I 'm installing a Comant antenna in the top cabin of my RV10(composite)it is a VHF-GPS-Weather data, while I have no problem in doing so in the metal part ,in the cabin(after I read Bob Nicklaus booK) it looks like I must install a ground plane inside the cabin. The book is very fast in explaining,(cut a one inch cooper and weld ) (call 3m for materials) and so on,it does not mention the lengths of each leg nor the diameter of the round plate, does it need to be aluminum or copper? any help (and not the typical "go and ask your local avionic shop", it must to be a joke. Can you imagine how youd ask the jedi's for help ,after you purchased all of your stuff from the net,wholesale,and any place you can save a buck,for suggestions in how do the job for your self .will be a nice answer ,I suspect.) Thanks The book is very good ,but its still way beyoong me since I don't want to became an electronic engineer before learning how to build an airplane, I'm still thinking many builders want to learn how to build a panel without the necessity of knowing how an alternator is built ,or how many inches are the quarter wave(watever that means)I thinks the first technician who will be able to show pictures at what a diode look like and wich point needs to be solder ,will sale a tons of books,and don't try to convert every body in master panel designers. Its my personal opinion only. Hugo do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:16:04 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Hugo Rv10#40456 My apoligize to Robert Nuckolls in write wrong he's name. Hugo ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:17 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots As usual you are wise beyone your years! It's only a very basic magnetic heading...you have to 'point' the airplane to a specific heading of sorts, and once engaged a click of the knob or turn of the wheel (on my pic/pilot) moves you one degree. You can't tell it to go to a specific heading without a known starting point....hopefully referenced to your compass or something. It's mainly a backup thing in case everything else in your airplane fails (or you're me and you forgot to plug in the GPS then the batteries go dead)! To use it with the GPS functional and installed, you need to remove the GPS data feed, either by shutting the GPS off or turning of the NMEA data stream. Hope that clears things up. Like I said....you were kind of right - I just had to point out that one little bit. Of course it's not the most powerful bit of functionality in the world, but then it's not meant to be. It's supposed to cover your rear in the case of other things failing. Like I said, I'm not 100% sure about the Trio, and really not sure about how the BMA in reality actually provides that info (and if it even really does or still uses some GPS input), but I do know more about the TTAP's. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:05 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots Stein, I did look at the TruTrak web site before posting, and found no mention of a heading select mode, but digging deeper now I see some mention in the Quick Reference Guide for the DigiTrak. The info in the Quick Reference Guide is a bit spartan though. If you want to fly a particular heading (vice a track), how do you tell the autopilot to turn to that heading? Can the heading mode be used if the GPS is functional? Kevin ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:02 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source Hi Tim, With some probes yes, and others no. The most likely answer to your question is no. I'm a bit confused to begin with why you have 2 engine monitors (both have quite a good history of reliability) with GRT having literally THOUSANDS of those units flying with little to know problems that I've known about. Splicing CHT's & EGT's could be a slippery slope...there are many different kinds of wire & probes between mfgrs (such as shielded/unshielded, grounded/ungrounded, solid/stranded, etc..). All are setup to read certain specifics. Paralleling onto them could cause lots of problems. Some transducers however allow you to split their signals. It's much easier on powered/excited probes than plain old resistive ones. In basic resistive probes if you "tack on" other things it can significantly vary the readings... Hope that helps. In the end I'd just say stay away from that and decide which engine monitor to use. Two of them is frankly a bit of overkill in my opinion. If the fan is turning you're most likely ok :) Duplicate CHT's & EGT's don't buy you much - you can't possibly watch all of each systems indications all the time anyway. If they don't match, now you have to try and decide which one is the "master" or is "right". If you're doing this when you have a problem then you're not flying the plane. Anyway, enough of my bantering. I get this question asked with surprising regularity and I still can't figure it out! Sorry for being sarcastic, that's not my intent. I'm just trying to point out that with added complexity comes reduced reliability and little gain in form or in function. Cheers, Stein. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TimRhod@aol.com Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:06 PM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source Does anyone know if you can pull multiple leads off of CHT probes, EGT probes, and Oil Temp to feed two different engine analysis systems. I have a Vision Micro system VM1000 and now a new Grand Rapids EIS. I would Like to use both as back up but would also like not to have to install duplicate CHT, EGT, oil temp Probes. Thanks Tim ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:31 PM PST US From: TimRhod@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source Thanks for the input Tim ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:09 PM PST US From: G McNutt Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Auto-pilots Kevin Horton wrote: > (snip) > Heading select requires a gyro system that outputs heading, which is > generally fairly expensive. Some of the newer low cost EFIS systems > have an AHRS with a magnetic field sensor to get heading, but I don't > think any of them output the same type of signal as a gyro with > heading output, so you can't use them in place of a mechanical gryo, > unless the autopilot was built around the AHRS, as with Blue Mountain. > > Kevin Horton Hi Kevin & Steine I hope I am not wrong here but I have been told that the GRT Sport EFIS that I am installing will output heading, VOR and GPS signals to the Trutrak autopilot all in the same RS232 format as the normal GPS nav output. Therefore I am expecting to have GPS nav mode, heading select or VOR/ILS tracking from my Trutrak ADI 2 when it is in Nav mode . This requires the $400 moving map option in the Sport. In my installation the A/P will normally get all inputs from EFIS but is switchable directly to the GPS output for nav if the EFIS fails. George in Langley BC 7A GRT Sport & Trutrak ADI-2. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:00 PM PST US From: "David M." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source You know the old saying: never use just 2 watches... David M. Stein Bruch wrote: > Hi Tim, > > With some probes yes, and others no. The most likely answer to your > question is no. I'm a bit confused to begin with why you have 2 > engine monitors (both have quite a good history of reliability) with > GRT having literally THOUSANDS of those units flying with little to > know problems that I've known about. Splicing CHT's & EGT's could be > a slippery slope...there are many different kinds of wire & probes > between mfgrs (such as shielded/unshielded, grounded/ungrounded, > solid/stranded, etc..). All are setup to read certain specifics. > Paralleling onto them could cause lots of problems. Some transducers > however allow you to split their signals. It's much easier on > powered/excited probes than plain old resistive ones. In basic > resistive probes if you "tack on" other things it can significantly > vary the readings... > > Hope that helps. In the end I'd just say stay away from that and > decide which engine monitor to use. Two of them is frankly a bit of > overkill in my opinion. If the fan is turning you're most likely ok > :) Duplicate CHT's & EGT's don't buy you much - you can't possibly > watch all of each systems indications all the time anyway. If they > don't match, now you have to try and decide which one is the "master" > or is "right". If you're doing this when you have a problem then > you're not flying the plane. > > Anyway, enough of my bantering. I get this question asked with > surprising regularity and I still can't figure it out! Sorry for > being sarcastic, that's not my intent. I'm just trying to point out > that with added complexity comes reduced reliability and little gain > in form or in function. > > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of > TimRhod@aol.com > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:06 PM > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > Subject: AeroElectric-List: multiple engine leads from one source > > Does anyone know if you can pull multiple leads off of CHT probes, > EGT probes, and Oil Temp to feed two different engine analysis > systems. I have a Vision Micro system VM1000 and now a new Grand > Rapids EIS. I would Like to use both as back up but would also > like not to have to install duplicate CHT, EGT, oil temp Probes. > Thanks Tim > > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:50 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Icom A200-Help! From: "jetboy" I've been informed by a number of people that the A200 is identical design to the BendixKing KY96. it certainly seems functionally identical and I recall the trays fit each other's radio. Bob, if you do get that icom manual pse confirm ? I'm a radio tech and got some of the BK manual from the avionics dealers (they quite rightly weren't keen to give me the whole manual) every time i'm asked to set up an A200 I just do as I have for the BK. The mod. level adjust pot works backwards too, just like the original- talk about attention to detail! Therefore any wiring setup used for the BK hot mic intercom should apply to the A200. Ralph, C150 / CH701 -------- Ralph - CH701 / 2200a Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77001#77001 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.