AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Tue 11/28/06


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:40 AM - Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please Read] (Matt Dralle)
     1. 05:12 AM - Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working ()
     2. 05:18 AM - 28v diesel engine (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 05:48 AM - Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working (FlyboyTR)
     4. 06:27 AM - Re: 28v diesel engine (OldBob Siegfried)
     5. 06:47 AM - Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working (OldBob Siegfried)
     6. 08:45 AM - Pitot heater performance (John Tvedte)
     7. 09:57 AM - Re: Pitot heater performance (Richard Tasker)
     8. 10:59 AM - Re: Battery Sizing (marc)
     9. 11:27 AM - Competely Off topic, but Nifty (Bill Dube)
    10. 11:30 AM - Re: Pitot heater performance (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
    11. 12:37 PM - Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Mike@Crossbow)
    12. 07:13 PM - Re: Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Malcolm Thomson)
    13. 10:20 PM - basic Ford alternator wiring questions (CardinalNSB@aol.com)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:40:53 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Who is "Matt Dralle" & What Are "The Lists"? [Please
    Read] Dear Listers, Who is Matt Dralle and what exactly are these Lists? Well, I've been working in the information technology industry for over 20 years primarily in computer networking design and implementation. I have also done extensive work in web development and CGI design during this period. I started the Matronics Email Lists back in 1990 with about 30 fellow RV builders from around the world. Since that time, I have added 63 other kinds of aircraft related Lists to the line up and numerous other List related services such as the Forums, Wiki, Archives and Search Engine just to name a few. For flexibility and reliability, I have chosen to run all of my own servers here locally. Other List-related systems include a 1 Gigabit, fully switched network infrastructure, a commercial-grade Netscreen firewall, a Barracuda spam filter, a local T1 Internet router, and a commercial-grade business T1 Internet connection with full static addressing. The computer servers found here include a brand new, quad-processor Xeon Linux server for List web services, a dual-processor Xeon Linux system dedicated to the email processing List functions, and another P4 Linux system serving as a remote storage disk farm for the archives, databases, and for an on-line hard drive-based backup system with 3.2 Terra Bytes of storage, soon to be upgraded to over 6 Terra Bytes! This entire system is protected by three large, commercial-grade uninterrupted power supply (UPS) systems that assure the Lists are available even during a local power outage! Speaking of power, imagine how much electricity it takes to run all of these systems. One month this Summer, I had a staggering $1368 bill for electricity alone! I recently upgraded all of the computer racking infrastructure including new power feeds and dedicated air conditioning for the room that serves as the Computer Center for the Matronics Email Lists. This year I added another rack to house the new MONSTER quad-processor web system that didn't quite fit into the first rack! Here's a composite photo of the List Computer Center before the addition of the second rack: http://www.matronics.com/MattDralle-ListComputerCenter.jpg As you can see, I take running these Lists very seriously and I am dedicated to providing an always-on, 24x7x365 experience for each and every Lister. But building and running this system isn't cheap. As I've stated before, I don't support any of these systems with commercial advertising on the Lists. It is supported 100% through List member Contributions! That means you... and you... and YOU! To that end, I hold a List Fund Raiser each November and ask that members make a small Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of this ever-expanding system. Its solely YOUR Contributions that keeps it running! Please make a Contribution today to support these Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Or, by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics / Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 USA (Please include your email address on the check!) Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 05:12:29 AM PST US
    From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
    Subject: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working
    11/28/2006 Hello Travis, You most probably have a failure of the elastomeric coupling drive of the alternator. TCM Service Bulletin SB95-3B describes this coupling in detail and I have attached a copy of that SB to this email. If you can not see it please let me know and we'll work on another way to get it to you. Buying a replacement coupling from TCM is very expensive. There is an outfit in Texas that rebuilds them and will sell you one for a cheaper price. Try Drake Air Inc at 800-542-6899. They may also know it as ATA Number DAP-1016. http://www.drakeair.com/details.asp?id=635796 According to the IO-240 part manual the IO-240 uses the one piece P/N 635796 one piece coupling. I don't see that coupling as being available from Aircraft Spruce, but you could check with them. Please let me know if I can be of further help. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. Time: 03:40:14 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net> Hello, Yesterday during flight my alternator quit charging. It is a Ford design with a Continental part # 633661 and using a Zeftronics R15VOL regulator (which is showing a green light on it's self diagnostic system). It is a direct drive on the rear of the engine. I am currently checking voltage/ohms, etc. I noticed today that the alternator cooling fan does not turn when the crankshaft is rotated by hand or when the engine is running. Does this mean something mechanical has broken and my failure to charge is actually caused by the alternator not turning? I have read about a gear coupling on some larger enginesbut cant find any info regarding the alternator set up on the IO-240. Any info regarding my failed system would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance! Travis :) -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen N-789DF


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:18:00 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: 28v diesel engine
    >Comments/Questions: Bob, > >I am installing a DeltaHawk diesel engine in my homebuilt and they have >decided to go with a 28 VDC starter and alternator. I have already >purchased most of my avionics in 14 VDC. I can buy a step-down >transformer from Aircraft Spruce, but is there a good way to run parallel >14 V batteries for power and still use the 28 V alternator for >charging? Seems like I'm between a rock and a hard place. Yup, your sure are! There's no graceful way to do this. The best solution is to use 2 batteries in series for cranking, change to parallel for operating and running a 14v alternator. bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:48:03 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working
    From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net>
    Thanks for the information! I have sent Drake Air an email regarding the drive coupling. In order to remove the alternator I have to pull the engine! ...nothing is ever easy! Again, thanks to all for the input and support! Travis :) -------- Travis Rayner Mobile, AL Skystar Vixen N-789DF Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77593#77593


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:27:58 AM PST US
    From: OldBob Siegfried <oldbob@BeechOwners.com>
    Subject: Re: 28v diesel engine
    Good Morning 'Lectric Bob and Mr. Delta Hawk User, Just as a 'For What It Is Worth', such an arrangement has been used in at least one certificated aircraft. La Belle Caravelle used a relatively high DC voltage to crank the Rolls Royce turbine engines with which it was equipped. There was a lever just to the left of the pilot seat which changed a bank of NiCads from twenty-eight volt parallel operation to something like one hundred and fifty volts DC in a series arrangement. I have forgotten the precise voltage used, (It has been almost thirty years since I last flew a Caravelle) but the arrangement worked as long as the NiCads didn't blow up! Since almost all mechanical systems on the Caravelle were identical to the DeHaviland Comet, I would not be at all surprised to find that the same setup was used for it. Worked great. DO NOT ARCHIVE Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 --- "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> wrote: > Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net> > > > >Comments/Questions: Bob, > > > >I am installing a DeltaHawk diesel engine in my > homebuilt and they have > >decided to go with a 28 VDC starter and alternator. > I have already > >purchased most of my avionics in 14 VDC. I can buy > a step-down > >transformer from Aircraft Spruce, but is there a > good way to run parallel > >14 V batteries for power and still use the 28 V > alternator for > >charging? Seems like I'm between a rock and a hard > place. > > Yup, your sure are! There's no graceful way to > do this. The best solution is to use 2 batteries > in series for cranking, change to parallel for > operating and running a 14v alternator. > > bob . . . > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com > Admin. > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:47:06 AM PST US
    From: OldBob Siegfried <oldbob@BeechOwners.com>
    Subject: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working
    Good Morning OC, May I add a comment? If someone does have a slipping Elastomeric coupling, don't let it be discarded. They can be refurbished for about one third the cost of a new coupling. Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 --- bakerocb@cox.net wrote: > 11/28/2006 > > Hello Travis, You most probably have a failure of > the elastomeric coupling > drive of the alternator. > > TCM Service Bulletin SB95-3B describes this coupling > in detail and I have > attached a copy of that SB to this email. If you can > not see it please let > me know and we'll work on another way to get it to > you. > > Buying a replacement coupling from TCM is very > expensive. There is an outfit > in Texas that rebuilds them and will sell you one > for a cheaper price. Try > Drake Air Inc at 800-542-6899. They may also know it > as ATA Number DAP-1016. > http://www.drakeair.com/details.asp?id=635796 > > According to the IO-240 part manual the IO-240 uses > the one piece P/N 635796 > one piece coupling. I don't see that coupling as > being available from > Aircraft Spruce, but you could check with them. > > Please let me know if I can be of further help. > > OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in > gathering knowledge. > > Time: 03:40:14 PM PST US > Subject: AeroElectric-List: Continental IO-240: > Alternator quit working > From: "FlyboyTR" <flyboytr@bellsouth.net> > > Hello, > Yesterday during flight my alternator quit charging. > It is a Ford design > with > a Continental part # 633661 and using a Zeftronics > R15VOL regulator (which > is > showing a green light on it's self diagnostic > system). It is a direct drive > on > the rear of the engine. I am currently checking > voltage/ohms, etc. > > I noticed today that the alternator cooling fan does > not turn when the > crankshaft > is rotated by hand or when the engine is running. > Does this mean something > mechanical has broken and my failure to charge is > actually caused by the > alternator > not turning? I have read about a gear coupling on > some larger enginesbut > cant find any info regarding the alternator set up > on the IO-240. Any info > regarding my failed system would be greatly > appreciated! Thanks in > advance! > > Travis :) > > -------- > Travis Rayner > Mobile, AL > Skystar Vixen > N-789DF >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:45:38 AM PST US
    Subject: Pitot heater performance
    From: "John Tvedte" <johnt@comp-sol.com>
    Anyone, I'm not underdstanding a point in the http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pitot_Heater/Gauging_Pitot_Heater_Pe rformance.pdf on Bob's website...namely that "If you are considering an AN5814 heated pitot tube installtion, the data gathered suggests that the tube be wired with 14AWG in a metal airplane and perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane." SO - why perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane....? John


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:57:47 AM PST US
    From: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
    Subject: Re: Pitot heater performance
    Just speculation on my part, but I would bet that the metal airplane would be using the airframe as a ground return (local to the heater) which would be very low resistance and mean that there is effectively a one way path for the electrons (through the 14 gauge wire to the heater to ground). In the plastic airplane, the path would be round trip (through the 12 gauge wire to the heater and back through the 12 ga wire to the common ground). So the total path length would be twice as much in the plastic airplane, hence the larger gauge recommended. YMMV, my $0.02... Do not archive Dick Tasker John Tvedte wrote: >Anyone, > >I'm not underdstanding a point in the http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pitot_Heater/Gauging_Pitot_Heater_Performance.pdf on Bob's website...namely that "If you are considering an AN5814 heated pitot tube installtion, the data gathered suggests that the tube be wired with 14AWG in a metal airplane and perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane." > >SO - why perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane....? > >John > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 10:59:51 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Battery Sizing
    From: "marc" <marc@io-390.com>
    Hi Ralph, Spelling issues aside, I'm curious why you're putting a Z-14 in a Rocket? Will you be flying lots of IFR, or is there another reason? Thanks, Marc -------- Marc RV-7, flying Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77642#77642


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:27:29 AM PST US
    From: Bill Dube <William.P.Dube@noaa.gov>
    Subject: Competely Off topic, but Nifty
    I've been busy working on my electric drag bike lately, instead of my rotary RV-7. That is why I have been silent on the list lately. This has absolutely nothing to do with rotary aircraft, but I figured since it is fun for me, it would be enjoyable for other high-performance/electronics nuts as well. A group of us laptop-toting, pocket protector nerds managed to impress the ultimate "tough room" of beer swigging tattooed bikers at the All Harley Drag Racing Association season finale at Las Vegas Drag Strip. We are the only Non-Harley to run at the Las Vegas event, ever in history. We set a record while we were at it. Video on YouTube (Watch us plasma a motor on the finish line): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpAZci9m0 Fact Sheet http://www.killacycle.com/KillaCycleFactSheet.pdf A few pictures: http://www.killacycle.com/BurnOut.JPG http://www.killacycle.com/Speed.JPG http://www.killacycle.com/Launch.JPG Time Slips http://www.killacycle.com/TopTimeSlips.JPG Let me know if you need more info. Now you understand why you haven't heard from me lately. :-) Bill Dube' bike@killacycle.com


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:30:47 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Pitot heater performance
    At 12:55 PM 11/28/2006 -0500, you wrote: >John Tvedte wrote: > >>Anyone, >> >>I'm not underdstanding a point in the >>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Pitot_Heater/Gauging_Pitot_Heater_Performance.pdf >>on Bob's website...namely that "If you are considering an AN5814 heated >>pitot tube installtion, the data gathered suggests that the tube be wired >>with 14AWG in a metal airplane and perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane." >> >>SO - why perhaps 12AWG in a plastic airplane....? >> >>John <retasker@optonline.net> Just speculation on my part, but I would bet that the metal airplane would be using the airframe as a ground return (local to the heater) which would be very low resistance and mean that there is effectively a one way path for the electrons (through the 14 gauge wire to the heater to ground). In the plastic airplane, the path would be round trip (through the 12 gauge wire to the heater and back through the 12 ga wire to the common ground). So the total path length would be twice as much in the plastic airplane, hence the larger gauge recommended. YMMV, my $0.02... Do not archive Dick Tasker That's worth at least two-bits Richard. You're right on. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > ---------------------------------------------------------


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:37:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Homebrew AHRS?
    From: "Mike@Crossbow" <msmith@xbow.com>
    Malcolm, If you are having trouble with your Crossbow NAV425EX, please contact us directly. Crossbow is committed to our customers and we will do everything in our power to ensure that you are receiving proper operation from your AHRS. Since we started the upgrade program, we have had dozens of these units completed and have not had any further problems with the NAV425. -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow Technology msmith@xbow.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77656#77656


    Message 12


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    Time: 07:13:13 PM PST US
    From: "Malcolm Thomson" <mthomson@showmeproductions.com>
    Subject: Re: Homebrew AHRS?
    Will you confirm that your test sites are now trouble free? I would really like to get these units working properly. Malcolm. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike@Crossbow Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 1:36 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? --> <msmith@xbow.com> Malcolm, If you are having trouble with your Crossbow NAV425EX, please contact us directly. Crossbow is committed to our customers and we will do everything in our power to ensure that you are receiving proper operation from your AHRS. Since we started the upgrade program, we have had dozens of these units completed and have not had any further problems with the NAV425. -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow Technology msmith@xbow.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77656#77656 -- 4:00 AM -- 4:00 AM


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:20:37 PM PST US
    From: CardinalNSB@aol.com
    Subject: basic Ford alternator wiring questions
    I'm finally free to experiment with my new "Coyote" project with a Lyc. 320. I will be using the regular "Cessna" alternator/VR at least to begin with (day vfr with electric starter/minimal avionics), basically a copy of my Cardinal to start. My confusion starts when I examine the Cessna alternator wiring: My certified Cardinal has the same style alternator, wired as follows (all wires are shielded): #8 from alt. A+ lug to Alt breaker, shield grounded to alt. case only #8 from alt ground lug to firewall bolt, shield at each end tied to end terminal #18 from alt Field lug to VR F lug, shield grounded to alt case and firewall bolt #18 from alt A+ lug to VR A+ lug, shield grounded to alt case and firewall bolt #18 from VR S lug to square metal filter lug to power buss, shield grounded to firewall bolt and again next to filter, shield end at power buss floats The above is per the factory manual, except for the shielded #8 ground wire, the Cessna manual shows an unshielded #18. I assume the factory used shielded wire for abrasion protection and/or noise protection, and that the #8 shielded ground wire was an undocumented later field change? Questions: 1. I understand the Connection to say that shielding alternator/VR wiring is not necessary for noise protection, did I miss something? 2. Does a shielded ground wire create any noise problem potential? If the engine ground straps are in good shape, is there any reason for the #8 ground from alternator to firewall? Or for any separate ground wire from the alternator, inasumch as the alternator is bolted to the engine with all metal bolts (no insulated washers)? 3. Is there any reason to run the A+ wire from the alternator to the VR A+, I would prefer to run a shorter wire from the VR A+ to the alternator side of the A+ alternator fuse on the firewall (1 foot of wire on the firewall instead of 4 feet of wire running beside the hot engine)? 4. Is there a need for wire protection, by shielding or otherwise, since it runs next to the hot engine from the alternator? 5. Skycrafters sells a high temp "Varglass" sleeving advertised as being rated to 200 degrees C. Is this an appropriate protection for the wires? I can't find any information on the internet. 6. What temp rating should I use for the wires running next to the engine? 7. Simply, is the following good practice for a Ford style alt/vr: all unshielded: #8 "A+" (alt to big fuse); #18 "F" (alt to VR); #18 VR "S" (VR to power buss); #18 VR "A+" (VR to alt side of big fuse)? This seems less complicated than my Cardinal. Thank you. Skip Simpson




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