---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/30/06: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:25 AM - Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! (Matt Dralle) 1. 05:45 AM - Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working () 2. 06:04 AM - Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working (Travis Rayner) 3. 06:06 AM - Alternator Recommendations (Wingrider) 4. 07:02 AM - Re: 28v diesel engine (George Braly) 5. 07:32 AM - Re: Alternator Recommendations (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 6. 08:02 AM - Re: 28v diesel engine (Bill Dube) 7. 08:20 AM - Re: Alternator Recommendations (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:11 AM - Re: Alternator Recommendations (Ken) 9. 11:13 AM - P-lead shield ground (Neil Clayton) 10. 12:24 PM - Switch source (Carlos Trigo) 11. 12:50 PM - Re: Switch source (George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI) 12. 02:19 PM - Re: P-lead shield ground (Matt Prather) 13. 02:25 PM - Re: Switch source (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 14. 03:48 PM - Re: Switch source (Carlos Trigo) 15. 04:11 PM - Re: Switch source (Matt Prather) 16. 04:58 PM - Re: Switch source (Kevin Horton) 17. 05:17 PM - Re: Switch source (Matt Prather) 18. 05:32 PM - Re: Alternator Recommendations (Wingrider) 19. 05:36 PM - Re: Switch source (Matt Prather) 20. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Tim Olson) 21. 05:56 PM - Re: Re: Alternator Recommendations (Michel Creek) 22. 06:05 PM - Re: Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Alan K. Adamson) 23. 06:37 PM - Re: Switch source (SteinAir, Inc.) 24. 07:50 PM - Re: Re: Homebrew AHRS? (Malcolm Thomson) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:14 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: AeroElectric-List: Last "Official" Day Of The List Fund Raiser! Dear Listers, Well, its November 30th and that means three things... 1) Today I am now officially 43 years old... (arg...) 2) It marks that last "official" day of the List Fund Raiser! 3) Its the last day I will be bugging everyone for a whole year! :-) If you use the Lists and enjoy the content and the no-advertising, no-spam, and no-censorship way in which they're run, please make a Contribution today to support their continued operation and upkeep. Your $20 or $30 goes a long way to further the List operation and keep the bills paid. I will be posting the List of Contributors next week, so make sure your name is on it! :-) Thank you to everyone that has made a Contribution so far this year! It is greatly appreciated. List Contributions: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:45:38 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working 11/30/2006 Hello Travis, You wrote: " I have emailed Drake Air (also left them a voice mail...have heard back from them) regarding their rebuilt units." I am puzzled by your posting. Has Drake responded or not? Have you submitted a RFQ (request for quote) using the form on their web site? http://www.drakeair.com/rfq.asp?id=635796 Have you telephoned them? 1-800-542-6899 Usually they are very good about responding because they are sometimes dealing with airplanes that are grounded and need parts sent quickly by FedEx overnight or other fast means. You wrote: " This does not look like a field serviceable part as shown in the Aircraft spruce book (doesn't look the same)!" You are right. There are two different versions of this coupling as explained in the TCM service bulletin SB95-3B (copy attached). The IO-240 uses the one piece coupling P/N 635796 and the Aircraft Spruce catalog has parts for the multipiece coupling. You wrote: "The drive gear on the end of the alternator shaft rotates freely!" Have you removed the coupling from the alternator to ensure that the shaft itself is not sheared and that just the elastomeric portion of the coupling has failed? And that the alternator shaft is not seized? You wrote: "I would welcome any contact names for parts suppliers/rebuilders that would carry this part." Any decent FBO or repair shop that orders parts from TCM should be able to get the alternator coupling from a TCM parts distributor, but it will be much more expensive than a rebuilt one from Drake. There may be other rebuilders of this coupling, but I am not aware of them. I would lean harder on Drake. You wrote: "I also realized today that I need to replace the motor mount bushings!" The elastomeric bushings are part number 530740 and are available from Aircraft Spruce. Please let me know how you make out. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. PS: As mentioned by Old Bob, your old alternator coupling core is worth money to Drake. Time: 03:38:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working From: "FlyboyTR" I pulled the engine today for access to the alternator. There was one nut (top) that was almost impossible to remove (ended up removing the starter for easier access) on the alternator. The drive gear on the end of the alternator shaft rotates freely! I have emailed Drake Air (also left them a voice mail...have heard back from them) regarding their rebuilt units. This does not look like a field serviceable part as shown in the Aircraft spruce book (doesn't look the same)! I would welcome any contact names for parts suppliers/rebuilders that would carry this part. I also realized today that I need to replace the motor mount bushings! Thanks again! Travis :) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:43 AM PST US From: "Travis Rayner" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working Looks like I missed a word! Have NOT heard back from them. I called yesterday afternoon after returning from the airport. they were closed. I will call them this morning. I have several leads on the part. TCM lists it at $1659.32. Crazy! I have not removed the coupling yet. The alternator turns freely (using the fan). The gear easily spins and turns inside the coupling housing but the housing does not turn (only when using the fan). Thanks for the TCM bulletin and the part #'s for the bushings. Your help is sincerely appreciated! Travis :) ----- Original Message ----- From: bakerocb@cox.net To: flyboytr@bellsouth.net Cc: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:43 AM Subject: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working 11/30/2006 Hello Travis, You wrote: " I have emailed Drake Air (also left them a voice mail...have heard back from them) regarding their rebuilt units." I am puzzled by your posting. Has Drake responded or not? Have you submitted a RFQ (request for quote) using the form on their web site? http://www.drakeair.com/rfq.asp?id=635796 Have you telephoned them? 1-800-542-6899 Usually they are very good about responding because they are sometimes dealing with airplanes that are grounded and need parts sent quickly by FedEx overnight or other fast means. You wrote: " This does not look like a field serviceable part as shown in the Aircraft spruce book (doesn't look the same)!" You are right. There are two different versions of this coupling as explained in the TCM service bulletin SB95-3B (copy attached). The IO-240 uses the one piece coupling P/N 635796 and the Aircraft Spruce catalog has parts for the multipiece coupling. You wrote: "The drive gear on the end of the alternator shaft rotates freely!" Have you removed the coupling from the alternator to ensure that the shaft itself is not sheared and that just the elastomeric portion of the coupling has failed? And that the alternator shaft is not seized? You wrote: "I would welcome any contact names for parts suppliers/rebuilders that would carry this part." Any decent FBO or repair shop that orders parts from TCM should be able to get the alternator coupling from a TCM parts distributor, but it will be much more expensive than a rebuilt one from Drake. There may be other rebuilders of this coupling, but I am not aware of them. I would lean harder on Drake. You wrote: "I also realized today that I need to replace the motor mount bushings!" The elastomeric bushings are part number 530740 and are available from Aircraft Spruce. Please let me know how you make out. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. PS: As mentioned by Old Bob, your old alternator coupling core is worth money to Drake. Time: 03:38:58 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Continental IO-240: Alternator quit working From: "FlyboyTR" I pulled the engine today for access to the alternator. There was one nut (top) that was almost impossible to remove (ended up removing the starter for easier access) on the alternator. The drive gear on the end of the alternator shaft rotates freely! I have emailed Drake Air (also left them a voice mail...have heard back from them) regarding their rebuilt units. This does not look like a field serviceable part as shown in the Aircraft spruce book (doesn't look the same)! I would welcome any contact names for parts suppliers/rebuilders that would carry this part. I also realized today that I need to replace the motor mount bushings! Thanks again! Travis :) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Recommendations From: "Wingrider" Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in. I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights. I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what Ive read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators? There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time? Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads. :D -------- Rich Whittington Tullahoma, TN Zenith 601HDS Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78118#78118 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch601hds_electrical_loads_analysis1_106.xls ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:38 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28v diesel engine From: "George Braly" I sympathize with your conversation on the Seawind. We get those phone calls around here on engine issues. Usually they are all good. But sometimes - - somebody who is way behind the power curve wants to engage in protracted debates over well settled issues. Regards, George -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:04 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28v diesel engine At 08:12 AM 11/29/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >Bob, > >The fuel injection control system on the diesel engine may require 28 >volts for operation. > >Regards, George Hmmm . . . so those guys are going electronic too . . . I guess it comes down to a $time$/weights/parts-count issue. Depending on how much current the engine needs, it might be better to use a small 28v battery and step-up inverter as opposed to a 14 volt battery and step down inverter to support already purchased avioncs. To craft decision right may take as much engineering $time$ as the delta-dollars to sell the 14-volt goodies and buy 28-volt versions. Life can get complicated sometimes! I had a weird phone call yesterday from a guy building a Seawind who was planning to install a PT-6 engine. He started out asking where to buy 100A fuses and I steered him onto the usual suppliers. The conversation expanded to wire sizing and system architecture for engines with starter-generators and it was obvious that he had little knowledge and no experience with the issues. Yet as I attempted to steer him in the right direction, he insisted on arguing with my suggestions. I kept telling him that I wasn't going to argue with him and that our conversation was taking time from my work for a paying customer. He kept asking questions and then arm-wrestling with the answers. I finally suggested that he hire a professional to craft a wirebook for his airplane and offered by services at $150/hour. He replied, "For that kind of money I'll do it myself" whereupon I opined, "Then I guess you don't need me" and hung up. That's the first time I've ever had to forcibly terminate a conversation with a builder. I do wish the fellow well but I'm not optimistic! Some of life's complications are truly intractable. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Recommendations From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Personally I don't have an issue with one wire alternators, I ran one in my Zodiac for over 400 hours and it worked flawlessly. This is assuming you don't have hugely expensive avionics stack either...In my IFR RV7 I still run a one wire but have an Overvolt circuit and contactor...But I still don't expect any real issues. Bob will point out that many doggy old spam cans are running alternators that came out of the Ark! Anyway, the homebuilders choice for many years has been the 1987 Suzuki Samuri Alternator..Its a real gem, lightwieght, powerful (55amps in theory) and extremely reliable...The only time mine acted up was when the back of the alt was continually sprayed with oil that worked itsway to the brushes, then it became intermittent. Replaced the brushes and it was fine. As to your loads, you really don't need to assume your landing lights are part of your running loads as these should only be used intermittently...Having said that, if your running electric fuel pumps only then there is a risk of leaving your LL on and pulling down the battery voltage...I would use a small LED as a warning that you have your lights on. The Suzuki alternator will fit your requirements very nicely however. Regards Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wingrider Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 6:06 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Recommendations --> Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in. I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights. I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what Ive read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators? There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time? Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads. :D -------- Rich Whittington Tullahoma, TN Zenith 601HDS Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78118#78118 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/ch601hds_electrical_loads_analysis1_106.xls ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:45 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 28v diesel engine Reminds me of the Monty Python routine "I came here for an argument." :-) Also, they say that arguing with an engineer is a lot like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You soon will realize that the pig is actually enjoying it. Bill D. George Braly wrote: > > >I sympathize with your conversation on the Seawind. > >We get those phone calls around here on engine issues. > >Usually they are all good. But sometimes - - somebody who is way behind >the power curve wants to engage in protracted debates over well settled >issues. > >Regards, George > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of >Robert L. Nuckolls, III >Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 9:04 AM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: 28v diesel engine > > > >At 08:12 AM 11/29/2006 -0600, you wrote: > > > >> >> > > > >>Bob, >> >>The fuel injection control system on the diesel engine may require 28 >>volts for operation. >> >>Regards, George >> >> > > Hmmm . . . so those guys are going electronic too . . . > I guess it comes down to a $time$/weights/parts-count > issue. > > Depending on how much current the engine needs, it > might be better to use a small 28v battery and step-up > inverter as opposed to a 14 volt battery and step > down inverter to support already purchased avioncs. > > To craft decision right may take as much engineering > $time$ as the delta-dollars to sell the 14-volt > goodies and buy 28-volt versions. > > Life can get complicated sometimes! > > I had a weird phone call yesterday from a guy > building a Seawind who was planning to install a > PT-6 engine. He started out asking where to buy > 100A fuses and I steered him onto the usual suppliers. > > The conversation expanded to wire sizing and system > architecture for engines with starter-generators and > it was obvious that he had little knowledge and no > experience with the issues. Yet as I attempted to > steer him in the right direction, he insisted on > arguing with my suggestions. I kept telling him that > I wasn't going to argue with him and that our > conversation was taking time from my work for a paying > customer. > > He kept asking questions and then arm-wrestling > with the answers. I finally suggested that he hire > a professional to craft a wirebook for his airplane > and offered by services at $150/hour. He replied, > "For that kind of money I'll do it myself" whereupon > I opined, "Then I guess you don't need me" and hung up. > > That's the first time I've ever had to forcibly > terminate a conversation with a builder. I do > wish the fellow well but I'm not optimistic! > Some of life's complications are truly intractable. > > Bob . . . > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:02 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Recommendations At 06:06 AM 11/30/2006 -0800, you wrote: > >Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the >post for a while this is my first time writing in. > >I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's >Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before >installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe >the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; >I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off >base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for >landing lights. > >I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive >alternator. From what Ive read it sounds like I should stick with the >three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are >there recommendations for specific alternators? > >There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is >a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product >to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is >there any news on this product at this time? I've acquired an alternator drive stand and hope to spend some time getting it wired up over the xmas holidays. In any case, the internally regulated automotive alternator is the wave of the future and certainly the better value. Drive ahead with any alternator choice that meets your power requirements knowing that any enhancements to the alternator's operability are easily added on at a later time. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:31 AM PST US From: Ken Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternator Recommendations Hi Rich FWIW I run an electonic ignition, EFI, and two 38 watt halogen projector lights wig wagging, but not much in the way of avionics and I typically see just over 20 amps daytime and about 26 amps when I add the nav lights. Even at night with the two 38 watt lights on continuously plus two 50 watt landing lights for approach, my wee 40 amp nippondenso (with a homemade large pulley to slow it) still seems to maintain voltage. I've never seen the low voltage warning on the ground either although I usually kill the two 50 watt landing lights while taxiing. While in theory it is fine if the landing lights draw down the battery a tiny bit on approach, it would be a distraction to get a low voltage warning on final. You would either learn to ignore the warning (not good) or disable it when the lights are on which is also not good. My 88 watts per wing of halogen landing and taxi lights is perhaps more than needed but it is appreciated on black nights on runways with no approach lights. Now I also run a 20 amp John Deere PM alternator on a separate system which drives backup EFI, ignition, and strobe lights. It really does put out 20 amps in flight but its output falls off rapidly such that it will not maintain voltage with all those things running during normal ground handling. So while a single John Deere is adequate for daytime operation without exterior lights, you are correct that it would not be very satisfactory for ground running at night for me. With a carb and no EFI electric fuel pumps the 20 amps would be fine I think but exterior lighting would have to be watched on the ground at night and I'd also be looking for LED nav lights. I don't know what your Fujitsu thing is but my conventional nav lights draw a lot more than the 1 amp on your spreadsheet. My ignition also draws a couple of amps. One amp seems a bit low for ignition. Electronic ignition may draw considerably more at high rpm than at idle. The corvair would likely spin the John Deere faster than I am though so that might help. BTW I don't see any real difference between a "one wire" alternator and a automotive internally regulated alternator. The warning light function usually doesn't make a good low voltage warning. The ability to remote sense the voltage that some regulators have doesn't make much difference to us. The ability to delay turnng on the alternator until after engine start also has little value and is not normally used. We know that some of the oem alternators can be turned off but many of us don't believe one can count on that function either once a regulator has failed - so again not much value to that. Ken Wingrider wrote: > >Hi, I am new to the Matronics newsgroups although I have been reading the post for a while this is my first time writing in. > >I'm building a Zenith 601HDS and will probably go with William Wynne's Corvair conversion. I'm trying to figure my electrical loads before installing the landing lights and closing up the wings and don't believe the typical JD garden tractor alternator is sufficient for my application; I expect a full load amp draw of between 35 and 40 amps. Maybe I'm way off base and maybe I shouldn't use a pair of 100 watt off road lights for landing lights. > >I'd like your recommendations for a small lightweight automotive alternator. From what I"ve read it sounds like I should stick with the three wire alternators and shy away from the one wire versions but are there recommendations for specific alternators? > >There seems to be differing opinions on the whether the load dump issue is a real concern or not. I understand Bob Nuckolls is working on a product to nullify the concern with using internally regulated alternators. Is there any news on this product at this time? > >Attached is my initial swag at my electrical loads. > > :D > >-------- >Rich Whittington >Tullahoma, TN >Zenith 601HDS Under Construction > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:18 AM PST US From: Neil Clayton Subject: AeroElectric-List: P-lead shield ground Should the shielding on p-leads for Bendix mags be grounded at both ends or just at the "Off-Left-Right-Both-Start" switch end? Thanks Neil -- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:55 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Switch source For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # S-700-2-70 ). Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? Carlos ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:50:48 PM PST US From: "George, Neal E Capt MIL USAF 605TES/TSI" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source Carlos - I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. neal RV-7 N8ZG For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # S-700-2-70 ). Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? Carlos
Carlos -
 
I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit.
 
neal
RV-7 N8ZG

 
For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole toggle switch which is designated by  Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # S-700-2-70 ).
Anybody knows a source for that particular switch?
 
Carlos
 
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: P-lead shield ground From: "Matt Prather" Essentially a recurring question. Discussion on this topic can be found in the archive quite easily. Follow the link at the bottom of each aeroelectric email for access to the archive search tool. An answer: On the magneto end, the shield should be connected to the body of the magneto (sometimes integral to the "P" lead connector) and the center conductor should be connected to the "P" lead. On the switch end, each shield should be connected to the "G" terminal of the switch. The center conductor should be connected to the "L" or "R" terminal. NO additional connections should be made (no "grounds" per se). A picture is worth a bunch: See Figure Z-26 in the latest Z appendix downloadable here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf Regards, Matt- > > > Should the shielding on p-leads for Bendix mags be grounded at both > ends or just at the "Off-Left-Right-Both-Start" switch end? > > Thanks > Neil > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:04 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote: >Carlos - > >I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. > >neal >RV-7 N8ZG > > >For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole >toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection >by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # >S-700-2-70 ). >Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? Newark has one at: http://tinyurl.com/soyjx The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:48:44 PM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch source ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:24 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source >>For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole >>toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection >>by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # >>S-700-2-70 ). >>Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? > > > Newark has one at: > > http://tinyurl.com/soyjx > > The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. > > Bob . . . > Thanks Bob Now, who is the American soul (fellow homebuilder) who is willing to do a favor to a Portuguese soul who needs that switch ($24.55) but doesn't want to pay Newark's $25 handling fee (only for international customers in a sale less than $100) and maybe another $30 or $40 (around 50% in taxes over invoice value, including hf and freight cost) to the customs in Portugal? If someone can do it, please contact me off-list. Carlos ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:58 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source From: "Matt Prather" Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts - maybe like (also at Newark): http://tinyurl.com/uvv93 If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on) switches at Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding things. Matt- > > > At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >>Carlos - >> >>I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. >> >>neal >>RV-7 N8ZG >> >> >>For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole >>toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection >>by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # >>S-700-2-70 ). >>Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? > > > Newark has one at: > > http://tinyurl.com/soyjx > > The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. > > Bob . . . > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > > < the authority which determines whether there can be > > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > > < with experiment. > > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:04 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch source The datasheet for the Honeywell 2NT1-70 shows that it does have momentary contacts, as Carlos needs. Kevin Horton do not archive On 30 Nov 2006, at 19:11, Matt Prather wrote: > > > Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts - > maybe > like (also at Newark): > > http://tinyurl.com/uvv93 > > If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on) > switches at > Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding > things. > > > Matt- > >> >> >> At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> Carlos - >>> >>> I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. >>> >>> neal >>> RV-7 N8ZG >>> >>> >>> For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) >>> Double Pole >>> toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric >>> Connection >>> by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be >>> part # >>> S-700-2-70 ). >>> Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? >> >> >> Newark has one at: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/soyjx >> >> The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch source From: "Matt Prather" Sorry Carlos, I misidentified the original poster of this switch request (what was I just saying about proof reading posts? :| ).. You might try Googling the Honeywell part number to find a vendor with a more favorable shipping policy than Newark has.. I searched for "2TL1-70 Honeywell" (the momentary contact switch) .. and found a bunch of places that sell it (some in France and Italy if that helps). Regards, Matt- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 10:24 PM > Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source > >>>For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole >>>toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric >>> Connection >>>by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # >>>S-700-2-70 ). >>>Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? >> >> >> Newark has one at: >> >> http://tinyurl.com/soyjx >> >> The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. >> >> Bob . . . >> > > Thanks Bob > > Now, who is the American soul (fellow homebuilder) who is willing to do a > favor to a Portuguese soul who needs that switch ($24.55) but doesn't want > to pay Newark's $25 handling fee (only for international customers in a > sale > less than $100) and maybe another $30 or $40 (around 50% in taxes over > invoice value, including hf and freight cost) to the customs in Portugal? > If someone can do it, please contact me off-list. > > Carlos > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:09 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations From: "Wingrider" Thanks for the information, I'll research the Suzuki alternator. The Fujitsu is a Tablet PC I plan to attach to the panel for gps navigation using PocketFMS and Voyager. My nav lights are LED's that's why the amp draw is so low. Now I just have to figure out how to mount an alternator to the rear of the Corvair. -------- Rich Whittington Tullahoma, TN Zenith 601HDS Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78303#78303 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Switch source From: "Matt Prather" Ahah.. I see that now. Thanks. Matt- > > > The datasheet for the Honeywell 2NT1-70 shows that it does have > momentary contacts, as Carlos needs. > > Kevin Horton > do not archive > > On 30 Nov 2006, at 19:11, Matt Prather wrote: > >> >> >> Seems like Neal was looking for a switch with momentary contacts - >> maybe >> like (also at Newark): >> >> http://tinyurl.com/uvv93 >> >> If that one isn't quite right, there are other (on)-on-(on) >> switches at >> Newark, and their website is pretty nicely organized for finding >> things. >> >> >> Matt- >> >>> >>> >>> At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote: >>> >>>> Carlos - >>>> >>>> I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. >>>> >>>> neal >>>> RV-7 N8ZG >>>> >>>> >>>> For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) >>>> Double Pole >>>> toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric >>>> Connection >>>> by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be >>>> part # >>>> S-700-2-70 ). >>>> Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? >>> >>> >>> Newark has one at: >>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/soyjx >>> >>> The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. >>> >>> Bob . . . >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:31 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? So you say you haven't had any failures on fixed units, but are you not counting the one that was reported to you on the flight home from OSH 2006? The one that failed was a "fixed" unit. After replacing it with another brand, there are no longer any problems with the new one mounted in that location. Tim Olson do not archive Mike@Crossbow wrote: > > > First, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. That > wasn't my intention. In reference to the original topic, what > Malcolm and others have said is completely correct. We are > approached by customers occasionally that complain that they could > build the unit for far less because the parts are relatively > inexpensive. Yes, the parts aren't too expensive but the software is > very complicated and you will need to rely upon some sort of aiding > (GPS, Kalman filtering, Airspeed, etc..) to improve performance of an > AHRS. MEMS gyro's without this aiding are really not accurate enough > for aviation in my opinion. By the time you are done creating > software and testing a fully functional unit you would have saved a > significant amount of money by purchasing a completed solution. Now, > if you want to create an AHRS for your personal enjoyment...then yes > it's probably worthwhile. > > In regards to OP Tech, we have not seen any failures with the > NAV420's that we shipped to OP Tech, but a very large percentage of > the ones that were shipped to OP Tech were already updated with the > latest hardware/firmware so we wouldn't expect to see much. The > early units that were shipped OP Tech have also come back to be > updated and we haven't been informed of any problems with those > units. > > Crossbow is aware of the delay and inconvenience that we have put our > NAV425EX customers through and on behalf of Crossbow I would like to > personally apologize for the amount of time that it took to get this > fix in place. We have been updating these units since May of this > year and are confident that the fixes we have in place remedy all > noted issues that are stated in the service bulletin. > > -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow > Technology msmith@xbow.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77859#77859 > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:29 PM PST US From: "Michel Creek" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations Rich, I just went through this for my Bearhawk. I spent a lot of time trying to find a Samurai alternator; they are no longer available new. Niagra Airparts no longer carries the ND, either. I did find and ND 45 amp internally regulated alternator for $175 at: http://www.litechracesystems.com/Products.html It arrived this week and is a new ND part no. 18504-6220. Good luck, Mike C. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wingrider Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 5:32 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternator Recommendations Thanks for the information, I'll research the Suzuki alternator. The Fujitsu is a Tablet PC I plan to attach to the panel for gps navigation using PocketFMS and Voyager. My nav lights are LED's that's why the amp draw is so low. Now I just have to figure out how to mount an alternator to the rear of the Corvair. -------- Rich Whittington Tullahoma, TN Zenith 601HDS Under Construction Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78303#78303 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:12 PM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? Oh, shoot, I might as well chime in as well. What I find as troubling with Mikes comments is that while it might be true that they haven't had any *recent* problems (highly suspect), the larger issue is that the people that I know that *were* working thru fixes and updates finally gave up and moved to something else. All the fixes couldn't resolve the problems. So not sure if that counts as fixed or failed in Xbows eyes... Either way, I know of at least 2 and probably more that never were resolved (and both failed either too or from OSH in one way or another). Also, in talking with the guys at OP while I was at OSH, they did say that they had had units that had showed similar troubles, but they don't have very many units flying, so I suspect that the percentages are pretty low based upon that. I also know of at least one high performance airplane (an EPIC LT), that could make the 500 fail. Perhaps this issues has since been resolved as it was a year ago that I heard of it. All it took was a 2500 fpm constant rate climb from sea level to 20K feet and then a negative G pushover to level and the 500 would show a bank for a few minutes until it was able to settle back to normal. I'm not really trying to sling mud here, but there is evidence that the "everything is peachy" comments are just a little misleading. My .02, Alan - back to regular schedule content now..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:39 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? So you say you haven't had any failures on fixed units, but are you not counting the one that was reported to you on the flight home from OSH 2006? The one that failed was a "fixed" unit. After replacing it with another brand, there are no longer any problems with the new one mounted in that location. Tim Olson do not archive Mike@Crossbow wrote: > > > First, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. That > wasn't my intention. In reference to the original topic, what Malcolm > and others have said is completely correct. We are approached by > customers occasionally that complain that they could build the unit > for far less because the parts are relatively inexpensive. Yes, the > parts aren't too expensive but the software is very complicated and > you will need to rely upon some sort of aiding (GPS, Kalman filtering, > Airspeed, etc..) to improve performance of an AHRS. MEMS gyro's > without this aiding are really not accurate enough for aviation in my > opinion. By the time you are done creating software and testing a > fully functional unit you would have saved a significant amount of > money by purchasing a completed solution. Now, if you want to create > an AHRS for your personal enjoyment...then yes it's probably > worthwhile. > > In regards to OP Tech, we have not seen any failures with the NAV420's > that we shipped to OP Tech, but a very large percentage of the ones > that were shipped to OP Tech were already updated with the latest > hardware/firmware so we wouldn't expect to see much. The early units > that were shipped OP Tech have also come back to be updated and we > haven't been informed of any problems with those units. > > Crossbow is aware of the delay and inconvenience that we have put our > NAV425EX customers through and on behalf of Crossbow I would like to > personally apologize for the amount of time that it took to get this > fix in place. We have been updating these units since May of this > year and are confident that the fixes we have in place remedy all > noted issues that are stated in the service bulletin. > > -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow > Technology msmith@xbow.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77859#77859 > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:37 PM PST US From: "SteinAir, Inc." Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source Why does this need to be an (on) on (on) switch instead of the plain old common (on)off(on) flap switch? I guess I'm not aware of a flap system in an RV that requires such a configuration and why a standard old flap switch that we all have used on our RV's (supplied by Van's, us, etc..) for years wouldn't work!? Please enlighten me....I'm just curious! Cheers, Stein. >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert >L. Nuckolls, III >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:25 PM >To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Switch source > > > > >At 02:49 PM 11/30/2006 -0600, you wrote: > >>Carlos - >> >>I believe I received a similar switch as part of my fuselage kit. >> >>neal >>RV-7 N8ZG >> >> >>For my new (remodelled) flaps system I need an (ON)-ON-(ON) Double Pole >>toggle switch which is designated by Bob Nuckols AeroElectric Connection >>by 2 -70 , and the B&C website seems not to sell it ( it would be part # >>S-700-2-70 ). >>Anybody knows a source for that particular switch? > > > Newark has one at: > >http://tinyurl.com/soyjx > > The Microswitch cross is 2NT1-70. > > Bob . . . > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > > < the authority which determines whether there can be > > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > > < with experiment. > > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:36 PM PST US From: "Malcolm Thomson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? Seems to me that if Crossbow is "hiding" known problems or issues with their products, specifically the 425 units, they are creating a huge liability for themselves, especially if they are making statements to the contrary. This is the kind of thing lawyers have a hay day with, especially if someone should end up in a hole in the ground flying with an xbow unit. (Doesn't matter if it was caused by xbow failure, lawyers still will go after them). So, Mike (at Crossbow), I'm getting concerned about the recent emails claiming that there has indeed been several issues, with several customers, with the "fixed" versions of the 425. Can you state you have not seen any reports of this prior to the recent emails posted here. I really want to get my units upgraded but don't want to waste your or my time if the fixes are ready. I sent you a private email about how to get my two units updated with minimal down time. I will be more than happy to report to this mail list with the results of the update - I believe if you guys say it is fixed and are prepared to update my two units then it must be fixed. Perhaps posting the results will help to put this issue to bed. Malcolm. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:04 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? --> Oh, shoot, I might as well chime in as well. What I find as troubling with Mikes comments is that while it might be true that they haven't had any *recent* problems (highly suspect), the larger issue is that the people that I know that *were* working thru fixes and updates finally gave up and moved to something else. All the fixes couldn't resolve the problems. So not sure if that counts as fixed or failed in Xbows eyes... Either way, I know of at least 2 and probably more that never were resolved (and both failed either too or from OSH in one way or another). Also, in talking with the guys at OP while I was at OSH, they did say that they had had units that had showed similar troubles, but they don't have very many units flying, so I suspect that the percentages are pretty low based upon that. I also know of at least one high performance airplane (an EPIC LT), that could make the 500 fail. Perhaps this issues has since been resolved as it was a year ago that I heard of it. All it took was a 2500 fpm constant rate climb from sea level to 20K feet and then a negative G pushover to level and the 500 would show a bank for a few minutes until it was able to settle back to normal. I'm not really trying to sling mud here, but there is evidence that the "everything is peachy" comments are just a little misleading. My .02, Alan - back to regular schedule content now..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:39 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Homebrew AHRS? So you say you haven't had any failures on fixed units, but are you not counting the one that was reported to you on the flight home from OSH 2006? The one that failed was a "fixed" unit. After replacing it with another brand, there are no longer any problems with the new one mounted in that location. Tim Olson do not archive Mike@Crossbow wrote: > > > First, I would like to apologize for hijacking the thread. That > wasn't my intention. In reference to the original topic, what Malcolm > and others have said is completely correct. We are approached by > customers occasionally that complain that they could build the unit > for far less because the parts are relatively inexpensive. Yes, the > parts aren't too expensive but the software is very complicated and > you will need to rely upon some sort of aiding (GPS, Kalman filtering, > Airspeed, etc..) to improve performance of an AHRS. MEMS gyro's > without this aiding are really not accurate enough for aviation in my > opinion. By the time you are done creating software and testing a > fully functional unit you would have saved a significant amount of > money by purchasing a completed solution. Now, if you want to create > an AHRS for your personal enjoyment...then yes it's probably > worthwhile. > > In regards to OP Tech, we have not seen any failures with the NAV420's > that we shipped to OP Tech, but a very large percentage of the ones > that were shipped to OP Tech were already updated with the latest > hardware/firmware so we wouldn't expect to see much. The early units > that were shipped OP Tech have also come back to be updated and we > haven't been informed of any problems with those units. > > Crossbow is aware of the delay and inconvenience that we have put our > NAV425EX customers through and on behalf of Crossbow I would like to > personally apologize for the amount of time that it took to get this > fix in place. We have been updating these units since May of this > year and are confident that the fixes we have in place remedy all > noted issues that are stated in the service bulletin. > > -------- Michael Smith Application Engineer Inertial Systems Crossbow > Technology msmith@xbow.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=77859#77859 > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > -- 4:00 AM -- 4:00 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.