Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:14 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
2. 04:38 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (OldBob Siegfried)
3. 05:15 AM - Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (Snow, Daniel A.)
4. 06:11 AM - Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (N777TY)
5. 06:27 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Ernest Christley)
6. 06:44 AM - Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (Michael T. Ice)
7. 06:47 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Bruce Gray)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Bret Smith)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: VOR antenna splitter? (steveadams)
10. 09:51 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Ernest Christley)
11. 10:12 AM - Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing (Bill Boyd)
12. 10:43 AM - Re: Re: VOR antenna splitter? (John Erickson)
13. 11:11 AM - Instrument mounting screw washers (Mark Banus)
14. 11:20 AM - Re: Super-Battery pedigree? (Ed)
15. 12:05 PM - Re: Super-Battery pedigree? (Terry Watson)
16. 12:06 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
17. 12:25 PM - Re: Instrument mounting screw washers (Bruce Gray)
18. 12:30 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
19. 12:46 PM - Pitot heater solder (John Tvedte)
20. 12:54 PM - Re: Instrument mounting screw washers (Mark Banus)
21. 01:41 PM - Re: Super-Battery pedigree? (Rob Housman)
22. 02:25 PM - Re: Questions?? (Cleones)
23. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Instrument mounting screw washers (Bruce Gray)
24. 03:19 PM - Re: Re: Instrument mounting screw washers (Bruce Gray)
25. 03:50 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (OldBob Siegfried)
26. 06:42 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (G McNutt)
27. 07:18 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw/Static Ports (G McNutt)
28. 07:36 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Keith Hallsten)
Message 1
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's stupid to fly in
ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However, the question stands,
how does one knock down the heat and current draw. Richard mentioned a
'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone enlighten us
non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is being in the clouds,
close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as soon not have to
turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the battery dry in short
order; I'd rather it be in long order.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:13 PM 12/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>--> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
>I have a pitot on an Exp. Aircraft that was designed for a heavier
>aircraft. To accommodate the high speed and high altitude cold, the
>pitot was configured to get very hot, with consumate amperage demand.
>Given the lower demands of a GA aircraft, is there any way of reducing
>the heating of the pitot (very warm to the touch would be fine...I
>don't need to be able to brand someone!) with a consumate reduction in
>amperage demand?
Altitude and speed have little to do with a pitot tube's
need to transfer heat to the surface. The kind of ice that
a pitot tube is expected to handle happens at lower altitudes
and relatively slow speeds. It's the super-cooled water droplets
that freeze instantly on contact that represent the largest
challenge to the pitot tube's ability to shed ice.
If you've ever witnessed an ice-tunnel test on a piece
of aviation de-ice equipment, you'd realize that if your
pitot tube is being seriously challenged, then knowing
altitude and airspeed are probably the least of your concerns.
Icing conditions you're likely to survive can probably be
shed by a relatively whimpy pitot tube deice heater but these
are exceedingly difficult things to quantify. Pitot tubes
we THOUGHT were adequate 30 years ago are scoffed at today.
Intuitively, your assertion is not in error, ANY amount of
heat will shed SOME ice. SOME ice is survivable while OTHER
ice is not. Given the changes in de-ice certification protocols
over the years, it becomes difficult to put numbers on "any",
"some" and "other". So difficult that for anyone to offer you
advice advocating "this many watts as opposed to that many
watts" may be blowing smoke you-know-where.
When that stuff starts appearing anywhere on your airplane
is not the time to be experimenting with the adequacy of
your pitot heater decisions. The best rule of thumb is put
on the biggest heater you can find/afford but plan on the
expeditious 180 no matter how robust you belive your heater
to be.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Good Morning Chuck,
Believe 'twas I who mentioned a strut switch.
In any case it is switch mounted on a landing gear
strut that switches something on or off when the
aircraft is airborne.
Such a switch is often used to prevent gear retraction
when the aircraft is on the ground.
It is not at all uncommon to have a strut switch on a
nose gear that will actuate a relay which controls
multiple functions when the aircraft is airborne.
The dual heat pitot tube has often been activated by a
nose gear strut switch on airplanes I have flown.
I have never seen a pilot activated switch that
handled that function, but I see no reason why one
could not be installed if that is your desire.
You could even have multiple heat choices if you
wanted the added complication.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
--- Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com> wrote:
> Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's
> stupid to fly in
> ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However,
> the question stands,
> how does one knock down the heat and current draw.
> Richard mentioned a
> 'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone
> enlighten us
> non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is
> being in the clouds,
> close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as
> soon not have to
> turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the
> battery dry in short
> order; I'd rather it be in long order.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:31 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
>
>
> Nuckolls, III"
> --> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 04:13 PM 12/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> Jensen"
> >--> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
> >
> >I have a pitot on an Exp. Aircraft that was
> designed for a heavier
> >aircraft. To accommodate the high speed and high
> altitude cold, the
> >pitot was configured to get very hot, with
> consumate amperage demand.
> >Given the lower demands of a GA aircraft, is there
> any way of reducing
> >the heating of the pitot (very warm to the touch
> would be fine...I
> >don't need to be able to brand someone!) with a
> consumate reduction in
> >amperage demand?
>
> Altitude and speed have little to do with a pitot
> tube's
> need to transfer heat to the surface. The kind of
> ice that
> a pitot tube is expected to handle happens at
> lower altitudes
> and relatively slow speeds. It's the super-cooled
> water droplets
> that freeze instantly on contact that represent
> the largest
> challenge to the pitot tube's ability to shed
> ice.
>
> If you've ever witnessed an ice-tunnel test on a
> piece
> of aviation de-ice equipment, you'd realize that
> if your
> pitot tube is being seriously challenged, then
> knowing
> altitude and airspeed are probably the least of
> your concerns.
>
> Icing conditions you're likely to survive can
> probably be
> shed by a relatively whimpy pitot tube deice
> heater but these
> are exceedingly difficult things to quantify.
> Pitot tubes
> we THOUGHT were adequate 30 years ago are scoffed
> at today.
>
> Intuitively, your assertion is not in error, ANY
> amount of
> heat will shed SOME ice. SOME ice is survivable
> while OTHER
> ice is not. Given the changes in de-ice
> certification protocols
> over the years, it becomes difficult to put
> numbers on "any",
> "some" and "other". So difficult that for anyone
> to offer you
> advice advocating "this many watts as opposed to
> that many
> watts" may be blowing smoke you-know-where.
>
> When that stuff starts appearing anywhere on your
> airplane
> is not the time to be experimenting with the
> adequacy of
> your pitot heater decisions. The best rule of
> thumb is put
> on the biggest heater you can find/afford but
> plan on the
> expeditious 180 no matter how robust you belive
> your heater
> to be.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Subject: | Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
I'm getting ready to mount my bent-whip com antenna on the belly of my
RV-9A (tricycle gear). I would like to mount it near the main landing
gear weldment forward of the spar where the bottom skin is thicker and
where I can easily reach the BNC connector during flight. Can anyone
give me an idea how much shadowing will occur from the gear leg?
Thanks
Daniel Snow
RV-9A, Electrical
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
It works fine in that location.
--------
RV-7A
N777TY (res)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79001#79001
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Robert Sultzbach wrote:
>
>Hi Bob,
>
> Staying out of icing if possible is good advice. I
>lost pitot static instruments 2 or 3 times in a full
>deicing equipped Navy jet over a 3 year period.
>
I've been following this thread, and this post begs the question I've
been mulling over.
What good is a heated pitot in an airplane without deicing equipment?
I'm thinking that if the pitot is covered in ice, then so is the rest of
the plane. Your airspeed is now next to useless, because all those
stall speed numbers are now meaningless. Whatever they were before,
they changed when the ice modified all the airfoils and the CG. A
cockpit referenced backup altimeter would seem to give the best bang for
the $time$...not terribly accurate, but sufficient to keep you out of
cumulous granite until you can improve your situation.
Ernest (a sunny day flyer).
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
Daniel,
I just ordered a bent whip antenna to mount on the belly of the RV-9 I am
building. I am considering mounting it on the other side of the fuselage so
that the co-pilot can reach it. Why? I thought that if I ever have a radio
failure and have to switch to hand held then I will just ask the co-pilot to
hook up the radio rather than me doing it while trying to fly and navigate.
If I don't have a co-pilot at that moment then I guess I will get to
practice my "lost comm." procedures. I remember during my initial flight
training many years ago my instructor would yank the microphone out of my
hand and tell me, "The Wright brothers invented the airplane not Marconi,
FLY the Plane".
Mike Ice
RV-9, Electrical
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:13 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing
> <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
>
> I'm getting ready to mount my bent-whip com antenna on the belly of my
> RV-9A (tricycle gear). I would like to mount it near the main landing
> gear weldment forward of the spar where the bottom skin is thicker and
> where I can easily reach the BNC connector during flight. Can anyone
> give me an idea how much shadowing will occur from the gear leg?
>
> Thanks
>
> Daniel Snow
> RV-9A, Electrical
>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Didn't your CFII tell you to break the glass on the VSI if that happens. But
your altimeter wouldn't be effected by a pitot blockage. We all have heated
static ports, right? Alternate static air valves?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernest
Christley
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
<echristley@nc.rr.com>
Robert Sultzbach wrote:
<endspeed@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
> Staying out of icing if possible is good advice. I
>lost pitot static instruments 2 or 3 times in a full
>deicing equipped Navy jet over a 3 year period.
>
I've been following this thread, and this post begs the question I've
been mulling over.
What good is a heated pitot in an airplane without deicing equipment?
I'm thinking that if the pitot is covered in ice, then so is the rest of
the plane. Your airspeed is now next to useless, because all those
stall speed numbers are now meaningless. Whatever they were before,
they changed when the ice modified all the airfoils and the CG. A
cockpit referenced backup altimeter would seem to give the best bang for
the $time$...not terribly accurate, but sufficient to keep you out of
cumulous granite until you can improve your situation.
Ernest (a sunny day flyer).
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Chuck,
Thank you for addressing this scenario. I, too, would like to hear others
respond. As for me, icing or not, if I lose my main alternator, I would
switch on Endurance mode (which is only 8 amps...thus, no pitot) and land
that puppy ASAP. This is not an emergent situation. Not so with your stock
Cessna.
A well designed electrical system can make a huge difference in the outcome
of a flight.
Bret Smith
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's stupid to fly in
> ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However, the question stands,
> how does one knock down the heat and current draw. Richard mentioned a
> 'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone enlighten us
> non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is being in the clouds,
> close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as soon not have to
> turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the battery dry in short
> order; I'd rather it be in long order.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert L. Nuckolls, III
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:31 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
>
>
> --> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 04:13 PM 12/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>--> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>
>>I have a pitot on an Exp. Aircraft that was designed for a heavier
>>aircraft. To accommodate the high speed and high altitude cold, the
>>pitot was configured to get very hot, with consumate amperage demand.
>>Given the lower demands of a GA aircraft, is there any way of reducing
>>the heating of the pitot (very warm to the touch would be fine...I
>>don't need to be able to brand someone!) with a consumate reduction in
>>amperage demand?
>
> Altitude and speed have little to do with a pitot tube's
> need to transfer heat to the surface. The kind of ice that
> a pitot tube is expected to handle happens at lower altitudes
> and relatively slow speeds. It's the super-cooled water droplets
> that freeze instantly on contact that represent the largest
> challenge to the pitot tube's ability to shed ice.
>
> If you've ever witnessed an ice-tunnel test on a piece
> of aviation de-ice equipment, you'd realize that if your
> pitot tube is being seriously challenged, then knowing
> altitude and airspeed are probably the least of your concerns.
>
> Icing conditions you're likely to survive can probably be
> shed by a relatively whimpy pitot tube deice heater but these
> are exceedingly difficult things to quantify. Pitot tubes
> we THOUGHT were adequate 30 years ago are scoffed at today.
>
> Intuitively, your assertion is not in error, ANY amount of
> heat will shed SOME ice. SOME ice is survivable while OTHER
> ice is not. Given the changes in de-ice certification protocols
> over the years, it becomes difficult to put numbers on "any",
> "some" and "other". So difficult that for anyone to offer you
> advice advocating "this many watts as opposed to that many
> watts" may be blowing smoke you-know-where.
>
> When that stuff starts appearing anywhere on your airplane
> is not the time to be experimenting with the adequacy of
> your pitot heater decisions. The best rule of thumb is put
> on the biggest heater you can find/afford but plan on the
> expeditious 180 no matter how robust you belive your heater
> to be.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: VOR antenna splitter? |
I have the same setup, GNS430 and SL30. I attached a BNC T-connector directly to
the VOR/GS input connection on the splitter. Connected VOR/GS antenna cable
to 1 branch of the T, and ran a short cable to the SL30 from the other branch
of the T. That way, SL30 gets both VOR and GS, while the 430 gets the split outputs
from the splitter. I don't know how much signal loss I have, but it has
worked well for almost 2 years. The SL30 does pick up the glideslope a bit sooner
than the 430. I haven't noticed a consistent difference in VOR range between
the two.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79066#79066
Message 10
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|
Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>Didn't your CFII tell you to break the glass on the VSI if that happens. But
>your altimeter wouldn't be effected by a pitot blockage. We all have heated
>static ports, right? Alternate static air valves?
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>
>
Hard to do without a mechanical VSI 8*) Breaking the glass on your
EFIS is just not pretty. If I did have a mechanical VSI, I still
wouldn't break the glass on it. Just no point in going around busting
up perfectly good instruments.
I assume that if ice is building up to block the pitot, the static is
very close to being next in line. Then you have to be aware enough to
notice that something is sneaking up on you. I've never had it happen,
but what I understand is that the meter slowly becomes more and more
innacurate. It doesn't just fall over dead. A backup device feeding
from a safe alternate source (like cabin air), will give you a much
quicker heads up.
That might be a good feature to have on an EFIS. Compare the cabin to
static pressures and raise an alarm if they get out of range...then
display both 'altitudes' if the pilot chooses.
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing |
Why not run coax to a bulkhead jack on the panel so either one of you
can reach it with a patch cord from the handheld?
Regarding antenna location, I doubt you'll notice shadowing from the
gear legs. I have done my RV-6A this way and it's not an operational
issue. I abandoned wingtip antennas due to shadowing and a subsequent
turtledeck location due to severe RF in the cockpit (headphones) due
to _lack of_ shadowing. I could not ameliorate that problem with
ferrites on the headset cabling, so I gave up and moved the comm whip
to the belly between the gear legs where it apparently belongs ;-).
You will likely experience front-end overload when close to another
transmitter- signals will sound garbled- but that's not shadowing and
should not depend much on antenna location anyway.
Best,
-Stormy
On 12/4/06, Michael T. Ice <aurbo@ak.net> wrote:
>
> Daniel,
>
> I just ordered a bent whip antenna to mount on the belly of the RV-9 I am
> building. I am considering mounting it on the other side of the fuselage so
> that the co-pilot can reach it. Why? I thought that if I ever have a radio
> failure and have to switch to hand held then I will just ask the co-pilot to
> hook up the radio rather than me doing it while trying to fly and navigate.
> If I don't have a co-pilot at that moment then I guess I will get to
> practice my "lost comm." procedures. I remember during my initial flight
> training many years ago my instructor would yank the microphone out of my
> hand and tell me, "The Wright brothers invented the airplane not Marconi,
> FLY the Plane".
>
> Mike Ice
> RV-9, Electrical
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 4:13 AM
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Belly Com Antenna Shadowing
>
>
> > <Daniel.Snow@wancdf.com>
> >
> > I'm getting ready to mount my bent-whip com antenna on the belly of my
> > RV-9A (tricycle gear). I would like to mount it near the main landing
> > gear weldment forward of the spar where the bottom skin is thicker and
> > where I can easily reach the BNC connector during flight. Can anyone
> > give me an idea how much shadowing will occur from the gear leg?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Daniel Snow
> > RV-9A, Electrical
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: VOR antenna splitter? |
LOL, it's always the simple solutions that evade me... Thanks much...
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
steveadams
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: VOR antenna splitter?
--> <dr_steve_adams@yahoo.com>
I have the same setup, GNS430 and SL30. I attached a BNC T-connector
directly to the VOR/GS input connection on the splitter. Connected VOR/GS
antenna cable to 1 branch of the T, and ran a short cable to the SL30 from
the other branch of the T. That way, SL30 gets both VOR and GS, while the
430 gets the split outputs from the splitter. I don't know how much signal
loss I have, but it has worked well for almost 2 years. The SL30 does pick
up the glideslope a bit sooner than the 430. I haven't noticed a consistent
difference in VOR range between the two.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=79066#79066
__________ NOD32 1899 (20061204) Information __________
Message 13
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Subject: | Instrument mounting screw washers |
Awhile back someone mentioned here or on the Glasair.org BB that model
railroad wheel washers were ideal size for the instrument mounting screws. I
can't find the message. I tried the model railroad show in VA Beach this
weekend to no avail. Anyone have a line on where to get these critters?
Mark Banus
Glasair II
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Super-Battery pedigree? |
I seem to recall that some Mazda Miata's (not all) had a special battery
with an ~10 year life span. Maybe follow that lead.
Ed Mueller
N3730G
RV10 in Progress
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 12:33 PM 11/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Got your email from a builder friend of mine. I guess you are an
>> electrics expert, so perhaps you can answer my battery questions.
>>
>> I fly a Glasair I RG that I finished in 1988. In 1986, when I began
>> to work on the retractable gear, I bought a 12 volt sealed battery
>> from a company in Scottsdale, AZ called Electromarketing. I found
>> them in Sport Aviation.
>>
>> Long story short, that battery is still ticking in my Glasair. About
>> 3 years ago in the winter, it didn't have quite enough umph to start,
>> so I put a trickle charger on it that came with the battery. It was
>> so old, that the polarity had fallen off. I figured 50-50 chance and
>> left it overnight charging. The next day the battery was stone dead.
>> It wouldn't close the relay. I figured my magic battery was finally
>> dead. However, I extracted it from the battery box in the tail and
>> brought it home and put a different charger on it. Back to life she
>> came. I had not opened that battery box in over 15 years.
>>
>> Have you ever heard of a battery lasting this long?
>>
>> Do you know what happened to that company? I'd like to buy another
>> battery from them if the need ever arises.
>>
>> I still have the receipt from that company, but have been unable to
>> find them. I asked EAA about it years ago, but never got a response.
>
> I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that company.
> They are probably a distributor and not a manufacturer.
> I'm not aware of anyone having the success you've
> experienced. When that battery finally becomes unserviceable
> in your airplane, you might consider shipping it to
> me. I'll see if I can identify the source.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Super-Battery pedigree? |
They have a special battery alright. It mounts in the trunk and has two
small tubes to vent gases to the outside, but I sure haven't been getting 10
years out of them, but maybe there is a special one that I don't know about.
There is at least one after market battery available for the Miata, but I
usually go to the dealer and pay the Big Price (around $100).
Terry
Rv-8A in progress
'92 Miata since '95
I seem to recall that some Mazda Miata's (not all) had a special battery
with an ~10 year life span. Maybe follow that lead.
Ed Mueller
N3730G
RV10 in Progress
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that flying
into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a person
flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, sooner or
later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking like
something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't want to
lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new stall
speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't do
that with a pitot full of ice.
So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way off
'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw?
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Ernest Christley
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
--> <echristley@nc.rr.com>
Robert Sultzbach wrote:
>--> <endspeed@yahoo.com>
>
>Hi Bob,
>
> Staying out of icing if possible is good advice. I
>lost pitot static instruments 2 or 3 times in a full
>deicing equipped Navy jet over a 3 year period.
>
I've been following this thread, and this post begs the question I've
been mulling over.
What good is a heated pitot in an airplane without deicing equipment?
I'm thinking that if the pitot is covered in ice, then so is the rest of
the plane. Your airspeed is now next to useless, because all those
stall speed numbers are now meaningless. Whatever they were before,
they changed when the ice modified all the airfoils and the CG. A
cockpit referenced backup altimeter would seem to give the best bang for
the $time$...not terribly accurate, but sufficient to keep you out of
cumulous granite until you can improve your situation.
Ernest (a sunny day flyer).
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 17
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Subject: | Instrument mounting screw washers |
Have you tried the aviation department at Home Depot?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Banus
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 2:11 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Instrument mounting screw washers
Awhile back someone mentioned here or on the Glasair.org BB that model
railroad wheel washers were ideal size for the instrument mounting
screws. I
can't find the message. I tried the model railroad show in VA Beach this
weekend to no avail. Anyone have a line on where to get these critters?
Mark Banus
Glasair II
Message 18
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Old Bob,
I reread your posting more carefully this time which leads me to a
follow up question. Now that I understand what a 'strut switch' is
(which I knew by a different name), I'm curious how the 'low heat' for
the ground operations worked. In other words, how did it provide low
heat on the ground and high heat in the air?
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
OldBob Siegfried
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
--> <oldbob@beechowners.com>
Good Evening Lynn, Dick and Chuck,
In a previous life, I flew quite a few airplanes that
had a high and a low heat for the pitot tubes. They
were on low for ground operations and on high heat for
airborne use.
I think it was controlled by a strut switch, but not
sure.
Worked well though.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
--- Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would like to add that the pitot tube should burn
> your hand if you grab it after it has been on for
> more than 1 or 2 minutes.
>
> "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net> wrote:
> Tasker"
>
> There are ways, but what leads you to believe that
> the pitot is really
> too hot? The whole purpose of the heater is to keep
> it clear in any
> condition - rain, freezing rain, cold ambient, etc.
> Depending on what
> plane you have, you will be flying at upwards of 200
> mph through all
> this (hopefully NOT freezing rain) and the last
> thing you want is for
> the pitot to freeze up.
>
> Dick Tasker
>
> Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> Jensen"
> >
> >I have a pitot on an Exp. Aircraft that was
> designed for a heavier
> >aircraft. To accommodate the high speed and high
> altitude cold, the
> >pitot was configured to get very hot, with
> consumate amperage demand.
> >Given the lower demands of a GA aircraft, is there
> any way of reducing
> >the heating of the pitot (very warm to the touch
> would be fine...I don't
> >need to be able to brand someone!) with a consumate
> reduction in
> >amperage demand?
> >
> >Chuck Jensen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Please Note:
> No trees were destroyed in the sending of this
> message. We do concede, however,
> that a significant number of electrons may have been
> temporarily inconvenienced.
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn A. Riggs
> riggs_la@yahoo.com
> St. Paul, MN
> BH #656 Kit #22
>
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
>
> ---------------------------------
Message 19
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Subject: | Pitot heater solder |
Ok - I'm installing an AN5812 Pitot heater...
The installation instructions specify a QQ-S-571 lead-silver solder.
The connectors do appear to be silver plated.
Doing some searches for QQ-S-571 yielded some silver bearing solders in
the 1.5% to 2.5% range. The QQ-S-561 is the spec for silver solder.
I was wondering if a Sn62Pb36Ag02 alloy would do the trick.
Thanks,
John
Message 20
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Subject: | RE: Instrument mounting screw washers |
Bruce, That was my first stop.
Message 21
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Subject: | Super-Battery pedigree? |
As the original owner of a '95 Miata I know that the original battery lasted
just a bit longer than ten years, but I also know that here in SoCal the
climate imposes no real demands on the battery so getting that "long" life
probably says nothing about the battery. As far as I can tell (from the
lack of standard size aftermarket batteries that will fit, a total of zero
that I've found) this is a non-standard SIZE specified by Mazda to fit into
a tight space and there is not anything special about the design. Aside
from the size the only difference I can see is the outrageous price.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Super-Battery pedigree?
I seem to recall that some Mazda Miata's (not all) had a special battery
with an ~10 year life span. Maybe follow that lead.
Ed Mueller
N3730G
RV10 in Progress
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 12:33 PM 11/30/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Got your email from a builder friend of mine. I guess you are an
>> electrics expert, so perhaps you can answer my battery questions.
>>
>> I fly a Glasair I RG that I finished in 1988. In 1986, when I began
>> to work on the retractable gear, I bought a 12 volt sealed battery
>> from a company in Scottsdale, AZ called Electromarketing. I found
>> them in Sport Aviation.
>>
>> Long story short, that battery is still ticking in my Glasair. About
>> 3 years ago in the winter, it didn't have quite enough umph to start,
>> so I put a trickle charger on it that came with the battery. It was
>> so old, that the polarity had fallen off. I figured 50-50 chance and
>> left it overnight charging. The next day the battery was stone dead.
>> It wouldn't close the relay. I figured my magic battery was finally
>> dead. However, I extracted it from the battery box in the tail and
>> brought it home and put a different charger on it. Back to life she
>> came. I had not opened that battery box in over 15 years.
>>
>> Have you ever heard of a battery lasting this long?
>>
>> Do you know what happened to that company? I'd like to buy another
>> battery from them if the need ever arises.
>>
>> I still have the receipt from that company, but have been unable to
>> find them. I asked EAA about it years ago, but never got a response.
>
> I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that company.
> They are probably a distributor and not a manufacturer.
> I'm not aware of anyone having the success you've
> experienced. When that battery finally becomes unserviceable
> in your airplane, you might consider shipping it to
> me. I'll see if I can identify the source.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Message 22
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|
At 05:27 PM 12/2/2006, you wrote:
>
>Cleones wrote:
>
>>
>>Hi Bob, In the John Deere alternator and regulator frequently
>>talked about here is the rectifier in the regulator?
>
>Yes.
>
>> And, Is the alternator generating 3 phase AC ?
>
>No. It is single phase AC. There are only two wires coming out of it.
>
>>And, about what voltage is the output of the alternator.
>
>It will go up to about 200 volts open circuit but when loaded it
>will be in the vicinity of 15 volts depending on how you measure it.
>
>> Also, since we know that the # 5 terminal must be connected to
>> voltage or the alternator doesn't work. I have tried this and it
>> is true. Then what is the circuit like? And would it be a good
>> place to connect the overvoltage crowbar to? Enjoyed your
>> lectures at Bloomington recently. Cleone
>
>I interupt the wires into the regulator. In the past Bob has said
>that either into or out of the regulator will do the job but I
>wanted to be able to cut power to the regulator in case it was
>overheating or internally shorted.
>The regulator uses the battery connection to turn itself on and to
>sense the battery voltage so that it can regulate to 14.4 volts nominal output.
>
>Ken
Ken,
> Thanks. Let me consider this. So.. doesn't this indicate
> using a NO relay? This circuit might be carring very high current
> at the time the relay opened. Hopefully the contacts would not be
> welded closed and the spinning alternator would not be delivering
> current to the regulator and we would achieve the desired
> results. I don't know if an attempt to fuse the AC output at a
> little more than the rated current of the alternator is called for
> or not. This might not be advisable because it might cause the
> charging to be shut down unnecesarily. Do you agree with my
> thoughts? Also regarding the # 5 connection of the regulator. I
> started the engine and made sure the alternator was working with
> the wire connected and then redid this with the wire off. The
> first time the voltage was about 14 volts and the second time it
> was just a little over 12. Thanks again.
Cleone
>
>
Message 23
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Subject: | RE: Instrument mounting screw washers |
I took the easy way out and countersunk all my instrument mounting screw
holes. (NOT)
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Banus
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Instrument mounting screw washers
Bruce, That was my first stop.
Message 24
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Subject: | RE: Instrument mounting screw washers |
I take it that what you're looking for is a flat washer with the same
diameter as the screw head. Will you need #4, #6, and #8's?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Banus
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Instrument mounting screw washers
Bruce, That was my first stop.
Message 25
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Subject: | Pitot Current Draw |
Good Evening Chuck,
That I do not know much about, but I do recall one
airplane where the low power was twenty eight volt DC
and the high temperature used 115 volt, 400 cycle, AC.
I would imagibne all of the varying power ones used
some variaton of high and low voltages.
Dropping resistors sure wouldn't solve your problem,
but an electronically cycled DC voltage may work.
Hopefully, 'Lectric Bob will have an idea!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
--- Chuck Jensen <cjensen@dts9000.com> wrote:
> Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>
> Old Bob,
>
> I reread your posting more carefully this time which
> leads me to a
> follow up question. Now that I understand what a
> 'strut switch' is
> (which I knew by a different name), I'm curious how
> the 'low heat' for
> the ground operations worked. In other words, how
> did it provide low
> heat on the ground and high heat in the air?
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]
> On Behalf Of
> OldBob Siegfried
> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 10:02 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pitot Current Draw
>
>
> Siegfried
> --> <oldbob@beechowners.com>
>
> Good Evening Lynn, Dick and Chuck,
>
> In a previous life, I flew quite a few airplanes
> that
> had a high and a low heat for the pitot tubes. They
> were on low for ground operations and on high heat
> for
> airborne use.
>
> I think it was controlled by a strut switch, but not
> sure.
>
> Worked well though.
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> --- Lynn Riggs <riggs_la@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > I would like to add that the pitot tube should
> burn
> > your hand if you grab it after it has been on for
> > more than 1 or 2 minutes.
> >
> > "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
> wrote:
> E.
> > Tasker"
> >
> > There are ways, but what leads you to believe that
> > the pitot is really
> > too hot? The whole purpose of the heater is to
> keep
> > it clear in any
> > condition - rain, freezing rain, cold ambient,
> etc.
> > Depending on what
> > plane you have, you will be flying at upwards of
> 200
> > mph through all
> > this (hopefully NOT freezing rain) and the last
> > thing you want is for
> > the pitot to freeze up.
> >
> > Dick Tasker
> >
> > Chuck Jensen wrote:
> >
> > Jensen"
> > >
> > >I have a pitot on an Exp. Aircraft that was
> > designed for a heavier
> > >aircraft. To accommodate the high speed and high
> > altitude cold, the
> > >pitot was configured to get very hot, with
> > consumate amperage demand.
> > >Given the lower demands of a GA aircraft, is
> there
> > any way of reducing
> > >the heating of the pitot (very warm to the touch
> > would be fine...I don't
> > >need to be able to brand someone!) with a
> consumate
> > reduction in
> > >amperage demand?
> > >
> > >Chuck Jensen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Please Note:
> > No trees were destroyed in the sending of this
> > message. We do concede, however,
> > that a significant number of electrons may have
> been
> > temporarily inconvenienced.
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn A. Riggs
> > riggs_la@yahoo.com
> > St. Paul, MN
> > BH #656 Kit #22
> >
>
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
> >
> > ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Pitch reference - Yes, if you want to paint a gloomy picture lets throw
in night time, snow showers, over water and your venturi icing up and
the gyros slowing down, well with a heated pitot at least you could
still fly needle ball and airspeed! Lost a friend who did not have pitot
heat, you cannot fly with needle ball and altimeter.
George in Langley BC
>
> I've been following this thread, and this post begs the question I've
> been mulling over.
>
> What good is a heated pitot in an airplane without deicing equipment?
> I'm thinking that if the pitot is covered in ice, then so is the rest
> of the plane. Your airspeed is now next to useless, because all those
> stall speed numbers are now meaningless. Whatever they were before,
> they changed when the ice modified all the airfoils and the CG. A
> cockpit referenced backup altimeter would seem to give the best bang
> for the $time$...not terribly accurate, but sufficient to keep you out
> of cumulous granite until you can improve your situation.
>
> Ernest (a sunny day flyer).
>
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw/Static Ports |
Hi Bruce
I know you said that with tongue in cheek, but it is interesting point.
If I remember correctly an alternate static valve or heated ports are
not required (Canada) if it can be demonstrated that the static ports
are not susceptible to icing. I opted for alternate static valve on my
RV's however I think that with dual static ports on the aft end of a
tapering fuselage they would be immune to icing unless the aircraft was
flown in a side slip. Anyone ever heard of side static ports icing over/up?
George in Langley BC
>
> Bruce Gray wrote:
>
snip
>> We all have heated
>> static ports, right? Alternate static air valves?
>>
>
Message 28
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Chuck,
I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity. Since I have
a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption will be reduced by a
factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure that is sufficient for my
purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a "Known Ice" type of airframe. If I
should find enough ice to overwhelm my "lightweight" pitot heating system, I
have bigger problems than the pitot. I'm not flying yet, but that's my
position for now.
Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of pitot is not as
critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow for wind, flying by
groundspeed is generally a fair approximation.
Regards,
Keith Hallsten
Subject: RE: Pitot Current Draw
From: Chuck Jensen (cjensen@dts9000.com
<mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com?subject=RE:%20Pitot%20Current%20Draw&replyto=898
4A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local> )
Date: Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM
Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that flying
into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a person
flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, sooner or
later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking like
something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't want to
lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new stall
speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't do
that with a pitot full of ice.
So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way off
'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw?
Chuck Jensen
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