Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:22 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Charlie England)
2. 12:24 AM - Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors (Matt Dralle)
3. 04:51 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Jan de Jong)
4. 05:11 AM - Re: Aluminum Bus question for Bob (rtitsworth)
5. 05:17 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (len.baxter@gm.com)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
7. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 05:40 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 05:44 AM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Jan de Jong)
11. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Mike)
12. 06:13 AM - FW: Re: Need engine rpm pickup for Lycoming 360 (glen matejcek)
13. 07:14 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:16 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (C Smith)
15. 07:36 AM - Re: Aluminum Bus question for Bob (Rob Housman)
16. 07:50 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (Matt Prather)
17. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
18. 08:29 AM - Exterior Lights (Again) ()
19. 08:50 AM - New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
20. 09:22 AM - Decreasing current to DC Motor (John Burnaby)
21. 10:18 AM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 10:51 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
23. 10:56 AM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Ralph E. Capen)
24. 11:11 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
25. 11:30 AM - Re: Decreasing current to DC Motor (Matt Prather)
26. 11:47 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (Matt Prather)
27. 12:05 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
28. 12:28 PM - Firewall penetration (Don Owens)
29. 12:41 PM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (Mark Banus)
30. 12:54 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (springcanyon)
31. 01:30 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Ralph E. Capen)
32. 02:32 PM - Re: Firewall penetration (Ernie & Margo)
33. 04:50 PM - Re: Re: LED backlit rocker switches (SteinAir, Inc.)
34. 06:37 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Don Vs)
35. 06:51 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
36. 06:55 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Alan K. Adamson)
37. 06:55 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
38. 07:12 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Don Vs)
39. 07:33 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines ()
40. 08:48 PM - Re: Exterior Lights (Again) ()
41. 09:45 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com)
42. 09:53 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com)
43. 10:52 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com)
44. 10:54 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com)
45. 11:06 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
If you want to vary the power to the heater, there are dozens, if not
hundreds of designs for adjustable switching power supplies. A switching
supply fed by ship's power that's capable of supplying full current to
the pitot at full voltage would be the most efficient way to vary the power.
This does not address weight issues or the wisdom of reducing the
effectiveness of the pitot heat.
Mike wrote:
> The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story. First,
> flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and sometimes
> often. If you know what youre doing and are prepared then the risks
> are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are able
> to handle it for better then 20 years. Its not like flying on a
> sunny day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, its not
> that big of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the
> same. Only experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice
> in piston powered planes, you dont have many out when the weather
> gets bad. When in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
>
>
>
> As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a bigger
> battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using less
> power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the pitot
> heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the
> speed, temperature, and heat (laymans terms) required to guarantee
> the anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a
> big guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the book
> to do said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula
> by comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what you
> want to hear but the facts are the facts. The reason that the pitot
> uses so much power (in general) is that is what it takes to keep ice
> off the probe in 100% humidity at temperatures < 10dec C.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the poor and somewhat sarcastic answer, but I think Chuck
> brought it out in me.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Mike Larkin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Speedy11@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:57 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw
>
>
>
> Chuck,
>
> You have just experienced the main thing I dislike about this forum.
> When you ask for advice or assistance, you will commonly get critique
> on why you should not do what it is you want to do. It takes several
> attempts at explaining that you don't care about opinions - you simply
> want assistance. For example, I've asked how to sample volts and amps
> in multiple places in my electrical system. I got "you don't need to
> know that info while you're flying." Regardless, I want to be able to
> do that so how can I do it? Answer: since I don't think you should do
> that I'm not going to tell you how to do it.
>
> As you've discovered, getting an answer can be very frustrating.
>
> Still, I've learned a lot about electrical stuff here and I continue
> to learn. So, I still find the forum of value.
>
> I wish I had the answer for you - I would provide it. But, I don't.
> Hopefully, you will get an acceptable answer.
>
> Stan Sutterfield
>
>
>
> Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's stupid to fly in
> ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However, the question
> stands,
> how does one knock down the heat and current draw. Richard
> mentioned a
> 'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone enlighten us
> non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is being in the
> clouds,
> close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as soon not have to
> turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the battery dry in short
> order; I'd rather it be in long order.
>
> Chuck Jensen
>
Message 2
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Subject: | Matronics Fund Raiser - 2006 List of Contributors |
Dear Listers,
I would like to thank everyone that made a Contribution in support of the Lists
this year! It was really nice to hear all great comments people had regarding
the Lists! As I have said many times before, running these Lists is a labor
of love. Your generosity during the List Fund Raiser only underscores the great
sentiments people have made regarding the Lists.
If you haven't yet made a Contribution in support of this year's Fund Raiser please
feel free to do so. The nice List gifts will be available on the site for
just a little while longer, so hurry and make your Contribution and get your
great gift. Once again, the URL for the Contribution web site is:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I would like to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ), Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises ( http://www.kitlog.com ), Jon Croke of Homebuilt HELP ( http://www.homebuilthelp.com ) and Bob Nuckolls of AeroElectric ( http://www.aeroelectric.com ) for their extremely generous support during this year's Fund Raiser through the contribution of merchandise. These are great guys that support the aviation industry and I encourage each and every Lister to have a look at their products. Thank you Andy, Paul, Jon and Bob!! Your support is very much appreciated!
And finally, below you will find a web link to the 2006 List of Contributors current
as of 12/7/06! Have a look at this list of names as these are the people
that make all of these List services possible! I can't thank each of you enough
for your support and great feedback during this year's Fund Raiser!
THANK YOU!
http://www.matronics.com/loc/2006.html
I will be shipping out all of the gifts in the next few weeks and hope to have
everything out by the end of the month. In most cases, gifts will be shipped
via US Postal Service. Kitlog Pro serial numbers should go out via email this
weekend.
Once again, thank you for making this year's List Fund Raiser successful!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
As others have mentioned, the down side of this scheme is that
> your bus gets whacked with a 15A pulse for each operating cycle
> of the heater system. One can explore relatively high frequency
> switching to avoid seeing the panel lights flicker (and believe
> me, they WILL) but this might cause audible noises elsewhere.
> Suggest about 30 Hz for minimum observability and below the
> audio frequencies of interest in the rest of your electro-whizzies.
>
There are >1F, < 2mOhm capacitors that one could use to mitigate:
http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/car/accessories/capacitors.htm#spl
(be careful charging/discharging - operate like a short circuit)
15A for 1/60th causes 0.25V dip on charged 1F.
Maybe not as practical as buying off the shelf, but interesting.
Cheers,
Jan de Jong
Message 4
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Subject: | Aluminum Bus question for Bob |
Here is an excerpt of a reply I got from Bob on a related question several
months ago. For more considerations, review the original message from the
archive (or email me and I'll send it).
Rick Titsworth
313-506-5604
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Common Grounding
... I'm building a composite airplane with AFT batteries (Lancair ES). This
would normally result in two large wires/cables running from the aft
batteries/contactors up to the firewall/engine (alt and starter) - one
live(+) and one ground (-). Why not incorporate/embed a "solid" electrical
conductor (ground) which runs the length of the fuselage. For example, this
could be an appropriately sized aluminum bar/rod/strap...
Depends on how much time you want to spend on it. 2AWG copper is
4 oz per foot. Assuming 8' of cable from battery to firewall
gives you 2# of installed weight.
2AWG is about .25" diameter or .05 square-in of cross section.
Alum is 63% conductivity of copper so you'll need about
0.08 square-in of alum. A piece of 0.050" x 1.6" wide fills
the bill. 96" x .05 x 1.6 is 7.7 cu" of aluminum. 0.1 pound
per cubic inch is about 0.8 pounds.
Expected weight savings is about 1.2 pounds. You could bring
the strap up the inside of the firewall and clamp it up to
the firewall ground bus. If you used copper strap, you could
solder it to the ground strap for a really good joint.
Original message/reply continues...
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Saylor
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:19 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum Bus question for Bob
Bob,
How can I calculate the current carrying capacity of aluminum for sizing of
aluminum bus bars.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
These switches are rated for 125v AC ....... are they OK for 12v DC??? and
will the neon backlight work on 12v DC??
Len
__________________
<mprather@spro.net>
Carling 632 series switches seem like they might fill the bill:
http://rocker-switches.carlingtech.com/illuminated-rocker-switch__37.asp#elibrary
Link to a descriptive pdf file:
http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/CarlingSW_622_632.pdf
Then get them custom engraved.. Or engrave them yourself.. I suspect it
wouldn't be too difficult.
Matt-
> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Hey all -
>
> I've been monitoring this list for awhile now - I'm building an RV-10 -
> and I wondered if any of the electron whizzes could help me. I'm trying
> to find a good source for custom legend LED backlit rocker switches for
> my project.
>
> I've historically done quite a bit of night flying, and after I got my
> instrument rating, which I did 100% at night (with the one exception of
> the checkride!) I vowed that I would not accept anything less than
> complete readability of all controls and switches at night in the
> cockpit. It just seemed so crazy that I had to juggle 3 flashlights in
> the cockpit - one red led flash attached to my headset, a small red
> maglite for cocpit instruments farther away from the pilot position, and
> one more large one to look for ice on the airframe (yikes!). then I'd
> get into my car after a long night of flying, turn on the lights, and
> have no trouble reading any of the controls or switches. This is how I
> want my aircraft to be! All controls self illuminating, and a
> flashlight for emergency use only! Seems so simple, but I've been
> confounded at every turn. Anyone have any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> cj
> #40410
> fuse
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al
Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation
that only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was only
trying to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap to get
one of Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't about
functionality, this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot off an
old warbird that I use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The sharkfin
perfectly picks up the lines of the winglets, yadda, yadda.....trust me,
it's just a personal preference.
Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for
use in cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker
coming in, the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning
trash barrels to comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some
real heat!!!
My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either live
with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for the
60amp alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time that I
start suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor fix may
work, because of the loss to the resistor, the overall amperage
reduction is minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 to get a
$20 tax reduction.
The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put
me in electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the
many tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too
long and contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's why
we sort through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled out
of the horse barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there might be
a pony in there somewhere.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SteinAir, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see
almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way,
I'm really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this
(and to the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen out
of something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated pitot
on the market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it varies the
current to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on it's own
temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, when it does
it shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the wheel...someone
already has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, just reading all
these posts will waste more time than the $400 and some odd bucks it
takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with all kinds of crazy
little electrical components...bolt it on and go!
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Hi, Keith,
That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red
hot branding iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough to
keep the pitot stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the icing
is bad enough that it freezes over a warm-to-very warm pitot, I've got
bigger problems that a red hot pitot won't solve.
Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an
efficient means of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some interval,
such as on for 30 seconds, off for two minutes. This would reduce the
total current draw if a person was in the soup, lost electrical and
needed whatever extra time available to get to safety but didn't dare to
turn off the pitot in marginal icing conditions.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith
Hallsten
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck,
I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity.
Since I have a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption will be
reduced by a factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure that is
sufficient for my purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a "Known Ice" type
of airframe. If I should find enough ice to overwhelm my "lightweight"
pitot heating system, I have bigger problems than the pitot. I'm not
flying yet, but that's my position for now.
Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of
pitot is not as critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow
for wind, flying by groundspeed is generally a fair approximation.
Regards,
Keith Hallsten
Subject: RE: Pitot Current Draw
From: Chuck Jensen (cjensen@dts9000.com
<mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com?subject=RE:%20Pitot%20Current%20Draw&replyt
o
=8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local> )
Date: Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM
Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that
flying
into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a
person
flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US,
sooner or
later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking
like
something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't
want to
lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new
stall
speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I
can't do
that with a pitot full of ice.
So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way
off
'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw?
Chuck Jensen
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
a
tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
h
ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m
a
tronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Message 7
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
At 10:30 PM 12/7/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see
>almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way, I'm
>really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this (and to
>the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen out of
>something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated pitot on the
>market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it varies the current
>to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on it's own
>temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, when it does it
>shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the wheel...someone already
>has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, just reading all these posts
>will waste more time than the $400 and some odd bucks it takes to buy one
>brand new....no messing around with all kinds of crazy little electrical
>components...bolt it on and go!
If the ONLY reason to have a discussion is to make
a buying decision on a product, then indeed discussing
the physics upon which it operates may be a "waste of
time" for some individuals. I'd like to believe that
the folks who hang out here are also interested in
acquiring a confidence in their decisions based on
understanding as opposed to market popularity or
customer faith in a particular product.
I'm working an EMC problem at RAC right now that is
generating a ton of $100/hr email generation and and
digestion that ranges all the way from techs to
division managers. 99% of what's been written so far
has hashed over a lot of facts (knowledge) and feelings
(popularity contests) but as engineers, our duty is
to not only find and fix the problem but to help everyone
understand how we got there.
Bob . . .
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
At 02:01 PM 12/8/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>
>As others have mentioned, the down side of this scheme is that
>
>> your bus gets whacked with a 15A pulse for each operating cycle
>> of the heater system. One can explore relatively high frequency
>> switching to avoid seeing the panel lights flicker (and believe
>> me, they WILL) but this might cause audible noises elsewhere.
>> Suggest about 30 Hz for minimum observability and below the
>> audio frequencies of interest in the rest of your electro-whizzies.
>
>There are >1F, < 2mOhm capacitors that one could use to mitigate:
>http://www.electronixwarehouse.com/car/accessories/capacitors.htm#spl
>(be careful charging/discharging - operate like a short circuit)
>
>15A for 1/60th causes 0.25V dip on charged 1F.
>
>Maybe not as practical as buying off the shelf, but interesting.
>
>Cheers,
>Jan de Jong
Point well taken. Earlier I mentioned a problem with bus
voltage stability encountered with a $50K coffee maker
on a $14M airplane.
For the entirety of my career I've signed up to the notion
that the ship's battery is "the best filter in the airplane".
Evidence to the contrary has been laying on the table in front
of me since day-one but went unnoticed because I failed to
explore the questions.
Turns out that a battery presents its specified milliohm
source impedance to the bus only while it's DELIVERING
energy. Once you elevate the battery's terminals above
the energy delivery value (as for charging and maintaining)
that battery's resistance to small voltage perturbations
disappears.
I did some quick-n-dirty looks at tying 1F capacitors
across the bus. In this case 50A pulses that produced
4-volt perturbations with a battery on line dropped to
1-volt excursions with a 1F capacitor . . . right in the
ballpark with your assertions above.
Problem was that while the battery allowed 4-volt,
25 mS perturbations to generate noticeable flicker in
cabin lights, the 1-volt perturbations were stretched
by the longer system time constant with a capacitor installed.
At 50 mS, the 1-volt perturbations were MORE noticeable than
shorter pulses of greater intensity! Who would have
thunk it?
In any case, these studies have generated a profound
change in the way I view vehicular bus dynamics.
It's interesting how easy it is to be snookered into
a belief structure that is wrong. Not just because
it's heavily preached and deeply held . . . but because
the question, "how does this work?" was never asked.
Bob . . .
////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
================================
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
At 08:53 PM 12/7/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >
> > We touched on this in an earlier post. Recall that while you're reducing
> > the current through the heater by 1/2, this drops the voltage across it
> > by 1/2 also for a new dissipation value of 1/4 the original which comes
> > to 29.5 watts for the tube and 29.5 watts dropped across the companion
> > resistor for a system total of 49 watts.
>
>Just a minor point - the 49 W is already 1/4 of the power consumption of
>the 'new' pitot tube. The only point I was making was that "I assume
>that an amp is an amp and is generally going to produce a certain
>amount of heat" was not correct.
>
>Bob W.
Agreed!
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
> 15A for 1/60th causes 0.25V dip on charged 1F.
Forgot to mention - 0.25V discharge dip is on top of 0.03V resistance
drop dip of 15A and 2mOhm.
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Bob,
Don't forget just to have a little fun every now and then.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:30 PM 12/7/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see
>almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way,
I'm
>really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this (and
to
>the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen out of
>something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated pitot on
the
>market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it varies the
current
>to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on it's own
>temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, when it does
it
>shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the wheel...someone already
>has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, just reading all these
posts
>will waste more time than the $400 and some odd bucks it takes to buy
one
>brand new....no messing around with all kinds of crazy little
electrical
>components...bolt it on and go!
If the ONLY reason to have a discussion is to make
a buying decision on a product, then indeed discussing
the physics upon which it operates may be a "waste of
time" for some individuals. I'd like to believe that
the folks who hang out here are also interested in
acquiring a confidence in their decisions based on
understanding as opposed to market popularity or
customer faith in a particular product.
I'm working an EMC problem at RAC right now that is
generating a ton of $100/hr email generation and and
digestion that ranges all the way from techs to
division managers. 99% of what's been written so far
has hashed over a lot of facts (knowledge) and feelings
(popularity contests) but as engineers, our duty is
to not only find and fix the problem but to help everyone
understand how we got there.
Bob . . .
--
11/22/2006
--
11/22/2006
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Subject: | FW: RE: Need engine rpm pickup for Lycoming 360 |
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
> [Original Message]
> From: glen matejcek <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
> To: AeroElectric-List Digest Server <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 12/8/2006 8:56:02 AM
> Subject: RE: Need engine rpm pickup for Lycoming 360
>
> Hi Jay-
>
> >... need an electronic RPM pickup for the Lycoming...
>
> Westach makes a unit that screws right on to the tach drive and (I
believe) outputs a 5V pulse train.
>
> glen matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.net
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
At 06:54 AM 12/8/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Don't forget just to have a little fun every now and then.
>
>Mike
My work is fun . . . or I wouldn't do it!
The coolest feeling in the world for me is to
go to bed understanding something that I didn't
understand that morning.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Chuck, I think the capacitor suggested with a PWM might be your best bet. I
have some mil-spec voltage regulators that I think may work as part of the
circuit. These are the same regulators that Cessna uses in their panel
dimmer circuits, just a more rugged version. Give me a day or 2 to hit the
application notes, and I think I can give you a circuit that is cost
effective, efficient and produce little noise. That is if someone else
doesn't beat me to it. Since I see this component used already in certified
aircraft it should be suitable for your application, provided it can handle
the current necessary to keep it at the right temp.
Some years back I worked with some very precise temperature controllers for
infra-red black-body heat sources. Temperature controls accurate to +-.01
deg. C.
CS
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al
Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation that
only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was only trying
to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap to get one of
Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't about functionality,
this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot off an old warbird that I
use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The sharkfin perfectly picks up the
lines of the winglets, yadda, yadda.....trust me, it's just a personal
preference.
Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for use in
cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker coming in,
the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning trash barrels to
comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some real heat!!!
My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either live
with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for the 60amp
alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time that I start
suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor fix may work,
because of the loss to the resistor, the overall amperage reduction is
minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 to get a $20 tax reduction.
The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put me in
electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the many
tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too long and
contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's why we sort
through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled out of the horse
barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there might be a pony in there
somewhere.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteinAir,
Inc.
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see almost
41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way, I'm really
confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this (and to the
unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen out of something
like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated pitot on the market that
does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it varies the current to the tube
from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on it's own temperature. When it doesn't
need the heat it just idles, when it does it shoves more power out there.
Why re-invent the wheel...someone already has and his name is Warren Gretz!
I swear, just reading all these posts will waste more time than the $400 and
some odd bucks it takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with all
kinds of crazy little electrical components...bolt it on and go!
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Hi, Keith,
That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red hot branding
iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough to keep the pitot
stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the icing is bad enough that
it freezes over a warm-to-very warm pitot, I've got bigger problems that a
red hot pitot won't solve.
Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an efficient means
of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some interval, such as on for 30
seconds, off for two minutes. This would reduce the total current draw if a
person was in the soup, lost electrical and needed whatever extra time
available to get to safety but didn't dare to turn off the pitot in marginal
icing conditions.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith
Hallsten
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck,
I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity. Since I have
a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption will be reduced by a
factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure that is sufficient for my
purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a "Known Ice" type of airframe. If I
should find enough ice to overwhelm my "lightweight" pitot heating system, I
have bigger problems than the pitot. I'm not flying yet, but that's my
position for now.
Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of pitot is not as
critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow for wind, flying by
groundspeed is generally a fair approximation.
Regards,
Keith Hallsten
Subject: RE: Pitot Current Draw
From: Chuck Jensen (
<mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com?subject=RE:%20Pitot%20Current%20Draw&replyto=898
4A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local> cjensen@dts9000.com)
Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that flying
into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a person
flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, sooner or
later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking like
something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't want to
lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new stall
speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't do
that with a pitot full of ice.
So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way off
'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw?
Chuck Jensen
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
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Subject: | Aluminum Bus question for Bob |
The electrical conductivity of aluminum alloy 6061-T6 is 43% IACS
(International Annealed Copper Standard) and 2024-T351 is 30% IACS. The
highest conductivity aluminum alloy (if we can call 99.6% pure aluminum an
alloy) is 1060-O with 62 %IACS.
So, if you are using conductor grade aluminum such as 1060 for your bus bar
(not easy to find in your local Home Depot) use a cross section that is
1/0.62 = 1.6 times the cross section of copper bus bar. More likely you
will use 6061 so the cross section must be 2.3 times that of copper for
equivalent current carrying capacity. If you use aluminum wire assume that
the stuff is made with conductor grade aluminum.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave
Saylor
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Aluminum Bus question for Bob
Bob,
How can I calculate the current carrying capacity of aluminum for sizing of
aluminum bus bars? Can I convert copper AWG to square inches then apply a
factor for aluminum? Any idea what the factor would be? I want to jump 3-4
inches from a GPU plug to the main bus. #4 copper should be adequate but
what size aluminum bar would be equivalent?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
<http://www.buildersbooks.com>
<http://www.homebuilthelp.com>
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
They should work fine for many 12V DC applications. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
The Neon backlight won't work on 12V DC, but LED is what was asked for..
The datasheet shows 6V, 12V, and 24V DC LED setups, plus one which
presumably lacks a dropping resistor (unbalasted).
Matt-
> These switches are rated for 125v AC ....... are they OK for 12v DC??? and
> will the neon backlight work on 12v DC??
>
>
> Len
>
>
> __________________
>
>
> <mprather@spro.net>
>
> Carling 632 series switches seem like they might fill the bill:
>
> http://rocker-switches.carlingtech.com/illuminated-rocker-switch__37.asp#elibrary
>
>
> Link to a descriptive pdf file:
>
> http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/CarlingSW_622_632.pdf
>
>
> Then get them custom engraved.. Or engrave them yourself.. I suspect it
> wouldn't be too difficult.
>
>
> Matt-
>
>
>> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>>
>> Hey all -
>>
>> I've been monitoring this list for awhile now - I'm building an RV-10 -
>> and I wondered if any of the electron whizzes could help me. I'm trying
>> to find a good source for custom legend LED backlit rocker switches for
>> my project.
>>
>> I've historically done quite a bit of night flying, and after I got my
>> instrument rating, which I did 100% at night (with the one exception of
>> the checkride!) I vowed that I would not accept anything less than
>> complete readability of all controls and switches at night in the
>> cockpit. It just seemed so crazy that I had to juggle 3 flashlights in
>> the cockpit - one red led flash attached to my headset, a small red
>> maglite for cocpit instruments farther away from the pilot position, and
>> one more large one to look for ice on the airframe (yikes!). then I'd
>> get into my car after a long night of flying, turn on the lights, and
>> have no trouble reading any of the controls or switches. This is how I
>> want my aircraft to be! All controls self illuminating, and a
>> flashlight for emergency use only! Seems so simple, but I've been
>> confounded at every turn. Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> cj
>> #40410
>> fuse
>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
CS,
I'll look forward to it.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C
Smith
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck, I think the capacitor suggested with a PWM might be your best
bet. I have some mil-spec voltage regulators that I think may work as
part of the circuit. These are the same regulators that Cessna uses in
their panel dimmer circuits, just a more rugged version. Give me a day
or 2 to hit the application notes, and I think I can give you a circuit
that is cost effective, efficient and produce little noise. That is if
someone else doesn't beat me to it. Since I see this component used
already in certified aircraft it should be suitable for your
application, provided it can handle the current necessary to keep it at
the right temp.
Some years back I worked with some very precise temperature controllers
for infra-red black-body heat sources. Temperature controls accurate to
+-.01 deg. C.
CS
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al
Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation
that only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was only
trying to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap to get
one of Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't about
functionality, this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot off an
old warbird that I use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The sharkfin
perfectly picks up the lines of the winglets, yadda, yadda.....trust me,
it's just a personal preference.
Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for
use in cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker
coming in, the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning
trash barrels to comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some
real heat!!!
My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either live
with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for the
60amp alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time that I
start suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor fix may
work, because of the loss to the resistor, the overall amperage
reduction is minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 to get a
$20 tax reduction.
The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put
me in electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the
many tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too
long and contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's why
we sort through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled out
of the horse barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there might be
a pony in there somewhere.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
SteinAir, Inc.
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see
almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way,
I'm really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this
(and to the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen out
of something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated pitot
on the market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it varies the
current to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on it's own
temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, when it does
it shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the wheel...someone
already has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, just reading all
these posts will waste more time than the $400 and some odd bucks it
takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with all kinds of crazy
little electrical components...bolt it on and go!
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Hi, Keith,
That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red
hot branding iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough to
keep the pitot stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the icing
is bad enough that it freezes over a warm-to-very warm pitot, I've got
bigger problems that a red hot pitot won't solve.
Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an
efficient means of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some interval,
such as on for 30 seconds, off for two minutes. This would reduce the
total current draw if a person was in the soup, lost electrical and
needed whatever extra time available to get to safety but didn't dare to
turn off the pitot in marginal icing conditions.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Keith
Hallsten
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck,
I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity.
Since I have a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption will be
reduced by a factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure that is
sufficient for my purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a "Known Ice" type
of airframe. If I should find enough ice to overwhelm my "lightweight"
pitot heating system, I have bigger problems than the pitot. I'm not
flying yet, but that's my position for now.
Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of
pitot is not as critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow
for wind, flying by groundspeed is generally a fair approximation.
Regards,
Keith Hallsten
Subject: RE: Pitot Current Draw
From: Chuck Jensen (cjensen@dts9000.com
<mailto:cjensen@dts9000.com?subject=RE:%20Pitot%20Current%20Draw&replyt
o
=8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local> )
Date: Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM
Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that
flying
into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a
person
flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US,
sooner or
later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking
like
something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't
want to
lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new
stall
speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I
can't do
that with a pitot full of ice.
So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way
off
'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw?
Chuck Jensen
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
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Subject: | Exterior Lights (Again) |
12/08/2006
Hello Jim,
1)You wrote: "Also note that FAR 91 requires "approved position and
collision lights". In this case FAR 23 applies to experimental."
I am not so sure that it is all that definitive. Can I please provide an
opinion (copied below) from a previous exchange on this subject?
--------------------- COPY FOLLOWS ------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <bakerocb@cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:43 AM
Subject: Reasonable qualification for flight hardware?
> 11/09/2006
>
> Responding to a previous posting by Dave N6030X <N6030X@DaveMorris.com
>
> Hello Dave Morris, You wrote: "You probably need to find out whether the
> FARs on light intensity apply to experimental aircraft or not."
>
> This is a question that has no clear cut answer. Let's examine the
> regulatory issue in the context of exterior lighting:
>
> 1) The Operating Limitations for each ABEA (Amateur Built Experimental
> Aircraft)** include the following sentence: "After completion of Phase I
> flight testing, unless appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument
> flight in accordance with 91.205, this aircraft is to be operated under
> VFR, day only."
>
> 2) To the FAA this sentence means that if the ABEA is operated day VFR
> that none of the instrument and equipment requirement provisions of FAR
> 91.205 would apply.
>
> 3) This means that during day VFR operations not even FAR 91.205 (b) (11)
> regarding the requirement for an anticollision light system would apply.
>
> 4) But as soon as the aircraft is operated at night or in instrument
> flight, either day or night, the provisions of FAR 91.205 (b) (11), (c)
> (2) and (c) (3) regarding exterior lighting would apply.
>
> 5) Each of the subparagraphs listed in 4 above contain the word
> "approved".
>
> 6) But since there are no published certification standards for ABEA there
> is no criteria available to measure approval against and one could
> conclude that any exterior lighting on an ABEA would be acceptable.
>
> 7) But logic raises the issue of interface with other aircraft.## The
> purpose of exterior lighting is to permit other observers in the air and
> on the ground to see the ABEA and react accordingly. If the ABEA is
> inadequately lighted then a hazard to others could exist .
>
> 8) This line of reasoning would permit the initial airworthiness inspector
> to examine the exterior lighting of the ABEA with regard to its adequacy.
> The inspector could conclude, if exterior lighting is present, that the
> builder intended to operate the aircraft at night or in instrument
> conditions and that therefore some specified level of performance should
> be attained by that lighting.
>
> 9) A reasonable level of lighting performance to be expected could be
> equivalent to that required of type certificated aircraft.
>
> 10) It is unlikely that the inspector would have either the equipment or
> the inclination to actually measure the exterior lighting performance
> during his initial airworthiness inspection.
>
> 11) One course of action for the inspector to ensure that the ABEA
> lighting installed would meet some accepted performance standard would be
> for him to require the ABEA to have installed exterior lighting approved
> for installation in type certificated aircraft.
>
> 12) The issue may become confused if the builder installs some new
> technology lighting (like LED's) that to any unbiased observer is
> obviously superior to conventional lighting, but does not carry any kind
> of FAA approval marking. To what extent is the initial airworthiness
> inspector willing to sign off such lighting?
>
> So I think that the answer to your question: "Do the FARs on light
> intensity apply to ABEA or not?" depends upon the actions of the
> individual initial airworthiness inspector. It may also be possible that
> an FAA inspector during a ramp inspection could raise this issue.
>
> OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
>
> **PS: Some people prefer the more benign sounding, but less precise term,
> OBAM (Owner Built And Maintained) aircraft.
>
> ##PS: There are other items of ABEA equipment where interface with other
> aircraft or the ATC system require specified levels of performance. Some
> that come to mind are communication radios, altitude encoders,
> transponders, navigation equipment, and ELT's. In most cases the easiest
> way to ensure that specified levels of performance will be met is to
> install approved equipment such as that marked to meet a TSO (Technical
> Standard Order)
----------------------- COPY ENDS ---------------------------
Time: 04:16:16 PM PST US
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: : Rotax Aux Altenator switching.
From: "h&jeuropa" <europa@triton.net>
We also are using Jim Nelson's crankshaft driven alternator on our Europa
Rotax
914. It works very well!! I have also supplied all the necessary parts to
others
- my local machine shop does a great job. We don't attempt to run both
the B&C alt and the Rotax simultaneously. During pretakeoff checks, we
verify
the Rotax system is operational for use as a backup, but we use the B&C.
Note that if you use the vacuum pump drive on 912 / 914 Rotax, it rotates at
a
slower speed than Lyc / Cont so B&C SD 8 and SD 20 put out less current than
rated.
Also, a Rotax crank shaft driven alternator runs at 5000 rpm, much less
than the rpm that the manufacturer rates the alternator at. B&C L60 at 5000
rpm is 46 A; L40 at 5000 rpm is 33A. We've supplied kits for both. We have
L60
on our 914 - fills in the space in the engine mount pretty well.
Also note that FAR 91 requires "approved position and collision lights". In
this
case FAR 23 applies to experimental. Last I checked, the Kuzlemann lights
do not meet the spec. But then your inspector probably won't notice or
question
them. We fitted Whelen lights to our Europa.
Jim & Heather Butcher
Europa N241BW
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady lablemaker
pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking for
replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister recommended
the Dymo
Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there from actual users of one
of these type machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping them
into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to get this
done and move on...
Mark
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Subject: | Decreasing current to DC Motor |
I have EFI pumps that move way too much fuel for my purposes. Is there
an inexpensive way to starve the current to the pump motor so that
output is decreased without harming the motor? The pump normally draws 7
amps.
Thanks
John
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Mark,
I have the Dymo. Works good, lasts long time. J Prints on a shrink
tube also.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and
looking for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One
RV-lister recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other
recommendations out there from actual users of one of these type
machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine
to get this done and move on...
Mark
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
In a message dated 12/08/2006 7:22:38 AM Central Standard Time,
len.baxter@gm.com writes:
These switches are rated for 125v AC ....... are they OK for 12v DC??? and
will the neon backlight work on 12v DC??
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
One thing I don't like about the 622/632 series Carlings is that the lit
rocker operators are clear colors (not translucent) so they may not be very easy
to read if engraved. Take a look at these:
http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/CarlingSW_LRG.pdf
Might be a better choice, and many operator colors, clear and translucent,
but not LED- still 12v incandescent.
Mark
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Michael,
Which one, where'd you get it, how much....yada yada?
Ralph
Most of my wiring's done - little pieces of laser printed paper stuffed into shrink
tubes......
-----Original Message-----
>From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>Sent: Dec 8, 2006 1:17 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>Mark,
>
>
>
> I have the Dymo. Works good, lasts long time. J Prints on a shrink
>tube also.
>
>
>
>Michael Sausen
>
>-10 #352 Fuselage
>
>
>
>From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:50 AM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>
>
>In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
>stein@steinair.com writes:
>
> I'm really confused and boggled
>
>Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
>lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and
>looking for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One
>RV-lister recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other
>recommendations out there from actual users of one of these type
>machines?
>
>
>
>And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
>them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine
>to get this done and move on...
>
>
>
>Mark
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Amen, Stein! And it took two weeks for the response that actually
answered Chuck's original question!
Larry
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Subject: | Re: Decreasing current to DC Motor |
This is just like the pitot tube question..
Old EFI systems had pressure regulators that returned unused fuel to the
tank. The pump was big enough to provide all the fuel the engine could
burn plus a little bit (to be returned to the tank).
My understanding is that newer automotive systems have returnless pressure
regulator/pump systems which use pulse width modulation (PWM) to regulate
pump output. I think it's likely that your pumps could use such a system.
Out of curiousity, wouldn't it make more sense to get pumps that are of
the correct scale for your application? At the same time, and with no
intent to insult your inteligence.. Fuel systems will require the
correct pressure to be maintained at the full flow rate consumed by the
engine (when flat-out).. Most IC engines will need around 0.65 lbs/hp/hr
of fuel. So, a 180hp engine will use 180hp * 0.65 lbs/hp/hr / 6lbs/gal
19.5gal/hr. When your make 100hp, you don't want to over lean, so the
system should have some headroom to provide extra fuel.. Maybe 25gal/hr
at system pressure would be a good target for a 180hp engine..
Regards,
Matt-
> I have EFI pumps that move way too much fuel for my purposes. Is there an
> inexpensive way to starve the current to the pump motor so that output is
> decreased without harming the motor? The pump normally draws 7 amps.
>
> Thanks
> John
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
Those are nice looking - probably better than the ones I proposed from a
readability standpoint. I wonder of the 632's could be frosted during the
engraving process. Seems like that would solve the issue.
Matt-
> In a message dated 12/08/2006 7:22:38 AM Central Standard Time,
> len.baxter@gm.com writes:
> These switches are rated for 125v AC ....... are they OK for 12v DC???
> and
> will the neon backlight work on 12v DC??
> See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf
>
> One thing I don't like about the 622/632 series Carlings is that the lit
> rocker operators are clear colors (not translucent) so they may not be
> very easy
> to read if engraved. Take a look at these:
>
> http://www.carlingtech.com/pdf/CarlingSW_LRG.pdf
>
> Might be a better choice, and many operator colors, clear and translucent,
> but not LED- still 12v incandescent.
>
> Mark
>
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
In a message dated 12/08/2006 12:59:19 PM Central Standard Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
Which one, where'd you get it, how much....yada yada?
Hi Ralph- Mark here. I'm leaning toward the 3000, since I can't see
anything very useful on the 5000 that the cheaper one doesn't do. Look at:
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php//masterid=15433815
Looks like a pretty decent product/prices. One thing I don't like about them
is that they seem to print the label only once on one side of the tube- Brady
labels I've used before would print 3 or 4 times across the width of the
label (sticker, not tube), then it would wrap around the wire, making the number
visible from all sides- pretty handy. Still looking...
Mark do not archive
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Subject: | Firewall penetration |
I have the need to bring several bundles of wire through my RV-7 firewall. I have
some of the two-piece, stainless, firewall shields, but can't help but think
there is a better way. Any great ideas out there [Question]
Thanks,
Don Owens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p211#80211
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
.....I ordered a sample, but they are a bit bigger than I'd like, so I am
now
looking at these:
<http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/rocker_switches.htm>
http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/rocker_switches.htm which are available
with neon or incandescent bulbs. Will order a sample and see how they look.
If
anyone DOES know of some alternatives, particularly with LEDs I'd love to
hear
about them!..........
CAUTION: I ordered these AML switches for my Glasair and received the NEON
bulbs (AML36). You do not want them as they will not light up with 14V. You
will need the incandescent bulbs for 14v (AML-34).
Message 30
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Michael, I am not familiar with these machines how does it print on
shrink tubing?
Don Owens
Mark,
I have the Dymo. Works good, lasts long time. :-) Prints on a shrink
tube also.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady lablemaker
pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking for
replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister
recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there
from actual users of one of these type machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping them
into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to get
this done and move on...
Mark
--
12:53 PM
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Thanks - I'll check it out too!
-----Original Message-----
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Sent: Dec 8, 2006 3:00 PM
>To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>In a message dated 12/08/2006 12:59:19 PM Central Standard Time,
>recapen@earthlink.net writes:
>Which one, where'd you get it, how much....yada yada?
>Hi Ralph- Mark here. I'm leaning toward the 3000, since I can't see
>anything very useful on the 5000 that the cheaper one doesn't do. Look at:
>
>http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php//masterid=15433815
>
>Looks like a pretty decent product/prices. One thing I don't like about them
>is that they seem to print the label only once on one side of the tube- Brady
>labels I've used before would print 3 or 4 times across the width of the
>label (sticker, not tube), then it would wrap around the wire, making the number
>visible from all sides- pretty handy. Still looking...
>
>Mark do not archive
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Don: Since you are building an RV look in the Vans catalogue under
Firewall Shields. The "One Hole Eyeball" (EYEBALL TTP-125) is very
superior to the two piece shields as well as the others. You drill one hole
(albeit a large one). No rivets or screws. You don't have to install the
split halves until you are completely done your project (can always add an
extra wire). Only two negatives: First, it's expensive (worth every
penny). Second, you have to remember to screw the retaining ring on when
you install the eyeball -- before you run any wire) Don't ask how I learned
that lesson. Other places sell them for roughly the same price - around
$25.00.
Good luck with your project.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Owens" <springcanyon@methow.com>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 3:24 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Firewall penetration
> <springcanyon@methow.com>
>
> I have the need to bring several bundles of wire through my RV-7 firewall.
> I have some of the two-piece, stainless, firewall shields, but can't help
> but think there is a better way. Any great ideas out there [Question]
>
> Thanks,
> Don Owens
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p211#80211
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
BINGO! These are almost exclusively what all of us "in the business" use on
panels. The Honeywell AML's are top quality, and you can get the rockers in
a variety of colors. Best of all, the are nicely sized and egrave VERY
nicely from Wayne at Engravers....
I would stay away from the Carlings. We've used them before and frankly
they are kind of a crappy switch (both of the series mentioned previously in
this string).
Regarding lights, don't waste your time on incandescents for the AML's.
It's not a matter of IF they will burn out, but WHEN. In all the panels we
build we put only LED's in them....plus the neat thing is the LED's are
avaiable in a variety of colors, so if you put them behind the white rocker
covers, you get a nice blue, orange, gree, etc.. color when they are turned
on!
Anyway, they are not cheap but the switches are very high quality and
professional looking. Believe me, we've used almost every rocker out there
(Carling, Otto, Eaton, etc..) and as of today the only thing we really
encourage is the Honeywell AML's.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mark Banus
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:37 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: LED backlit rocker switches
......I ordered a sample, but they are a bit bigger than I'd like, so I am
now
looking at these:
http://www.engravers.net/aircraft/rocker_switches.htm which are available
with neon or incandescent bulbs. Will order a sample and see how they
look. If
anyone DOES know of some alternatives, particularly with LEDs I'd love to
hear
about them!..........
CAUTION: I ordered these AML switches for my Glasair and received the NEON
bulbs (AML36). You do not want them as they will not light up with 14V. You
will need the incandescent bulbs for 14v (AML-34).
Message 34
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Try the K-Son #2011xlb available from www.magesupply.com it is a little
expensive at $319 but I have the one it replaces and I would not give it up.
You can get tubes for any size wire you use in an airplane. Don
-----Original Message-----[dsvs]
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:50 AM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking
for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister
recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there
from actual users of one of these type machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping them
into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to get
this done and move on...
Mark
Message 35
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
The kit I bought is The Dymo RhinoPro 5000:
http://global.dymo.com/enUS/ProductAccessories/RhinoPRO_5000_Hard_Case_K
it.html
If you scroll down to accessories you'll see that you can get label
cartridges that are actually shrink wrap tubing. They also have a
polyester label that is very durable. Look around and you can find the
kit for about $150.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
springcanyon
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: [Spam] RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making
machines
Michael, I am not familiar with these machines - how does it print on
shrink tubing?
Don Owens
Mark,
I have the Dymo. Works good, lasts long time. J Prints on a shrink
tube also.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and
looking for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One
RV-lister recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other
recommendations out there from actual users of one of these type
machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine
to get this done and move on...
Mark
Message 36
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Probably that link needs to be www.imagesupply.com and the model needs to be
the 2012xlb (don't think the 2011 support tube tape at least not from the
imagesupply website anyway...
FWIW,
Alan
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Vs
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
Try the K-Son #2011xlb available from www.magesupply.com it is a little
expensive at $319 but I have the one it replaces and I would not give it up.
You can get tubes for any size wire you use in an airplane. Don
-----Original Message-----[dsvs]
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady lablemaker
pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking for
replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister
recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there
from actual users of one of these type machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping them
into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to get
this done and move on...
Mark
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Message 37
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
I believe you can do that with the 5000 and regular labels. It's at my
shop still packed up or I would check for sure.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
In a message dated 12/08/2006 12:59:19 PM Central Standard Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
Which one, where'd you get it, how much....yada yada?
Hi Ralph- Mark here. I'm leaning toward the 3000, since I can't see
anything very useful on the 5000 that the cheaper one doesn't do. Look
at:
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php//masterid=15433815
<http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=15433815>
Looks like a pretty decent product/prices. One thing I don't like about
them is that they seem to print the label only once on one side of the
tube- Brady labels I've used before would print 3 or 4 times across the
width of the label (sticker, not tube), then it would wrap around the
wire, making the number visible from all sides- pretty handy. Still
looking...
Mark do not archive
Message 38
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Right on both counts, sorry about that. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K.
Adamson
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:55 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
Probably that link needs to be www.imagesupply.com and the model needs to
be the 2012xlb (don't think the 2011 support tube tape at least not from the
imagesupply website anyway...
FWIW,
Alan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Vs
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:37 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
Try the K-Son #2011xlb available from www.magesupply.com it is a little
expensive at $319 but I have the one it replaces and I would not give it up.
You can get tubes for any size wire you use in an airplane. Don
-----Original Message-----[dsvs]
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Fiveonepw@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:50 AM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking
for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister
recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there
from actual users of one of these type machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to
get this done and move on...
Mark
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Message 39
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Subject: | New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
Brady makes excellent equipment for wire marking among other things. Check out
this website.
http://www.bradyid.com/
Kent
do not archive
---- Don Vs <dsvs@ca.rr.com> wrote:
> Right on both counts, sorry about that. Don
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alan K.
> Adamson
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 6:55 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>
> Probably that link needs to be www.imagesupply.com and the model needs to
> be the 2012xlb (don't think the 2011 support tube tape at least not from the
> imagesupply website anyway...
>
> FWIW,
> Alan
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Vs
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 9:37 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>
> Try the K-Son #2011xlb available from www.magesupply.com it is a little
> expensive at $319 but I have the one it replaces and I would not give it up.
> You can get tubes for any size wire you use in an airplane. Don
> -----Original Message-----[dsvs]
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Fiveonepw@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:50 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines
>
>
> In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
> stein@steinair.com writes:
> I'm really confused and boggled
> Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
> lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and looking
> for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One RV-lister
> recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other recommendations out there
> from actual users of one of these type machines?
>
> And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
> them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine to
> get this done and move on...
>
> Mark
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.
> com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
>
>
>
>
Message 40
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Subject: | Re: Exterior Lights (Again) |
12/08/2006
Hello Jim, Thanks for your prompt and considered reply.
You wrote: "The standard is for lighting not ABEA."
Yes, there is a published standard for exterior lighting in FAR Part 23. The
issue is: Does that Part 23 standard, in a formal, explicit, regulatory
manner, apply to exterior lighting installed on an ABEA (Amateur Built
Experimental Aircraft)? Or, more broadly, does any published FAA standard
apply to an ABEA and the equipment installed upon it?
A while back I was involved in an issue where a DAR performing an initial
airworthiness inspection on an ABEA was attempting to force a builder to
replace his seat belts / shoulder harnesses with those marked with TSO
tags. I appealed to FAA Headquarters on behalf of the builder and William
O'Brien replied thusly:
on 09/02/2003 "Subject: Re: Shoulder Harness TSO. There is no certification
requirement for a TSO shoulder harness for amateur-built. The word
experimental means that the aircraft does not meet a standard."
This tells me that no explicit, published, formal regulatory standards must
be met by either the equipment on an ABEA or the ABEA itself.
So why don't we have just a bunch of unsafe junk flying around in the form
of ABEA's? It is because: A) Most builders are reasonable people, and B)
There is a significant weight of process, training, accepted airworthiness
practices, and Administrator level approval or disapproval power in the
hands of the initial airworthiness inspector of each ABEA.
And I believe that those inspectors give more weight to those equipment
items on ABEA that can affect other aircraft and ATC operations than they do
to an item that would affect only the occupants of the ABEA. That is why
those occupants are given fair warning by mandatory signs and a placard in
that ABEA that they are entering territory not entirely protected by
published US Government aviation standards.
As I have pointed out previously there are certain items of equipment that
must meet interface, compatibility, and functional criteria with entities
outside of the ABEA itself and usually the easiest way to accomplish those
goals is to install a piece of FAA approved equipment.
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Exterior Lights (Again)
> Interesting comment. After reading your COPY I have to agree that ABEA by
> 91.319 (d) (2) can operate day VFR without fulfilling the requirements of
> 91.205. To operate night or IFR then 91.205 applies and approved is
> defined
> in FAR 1.1 as "approved by the Administrator". The most common way that
> is
> done is by FAR, in this case, FAR 23.
>
> I guess I disagree that " 6) But since there are no published
> certification
> standards for ABEA there is no criteria available to measure approval
> against and one could conclude that any exterior lighting on an ABEA would
> be acceptable." The standard is for lighting not ABEA.
>
> Just my interpretation.
>
> Jim Butcher
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Mike Larkin,
I don't mean to be sarcastic, but you didn't answer any questions - at least
any questions that had been asked. Chuck asked about how to wire his pitot
heat so as to have the option to cycle from low heat to high heat.
I don't agree with Chuck regarding the wisdom of using a lower heat setting
to save power in IMC icing conditions if the alternator fails, but his question
is not, "Should I use a lower heat setting?" His question is, "How do I wire
so to obtain my choice of heat settings?"
We all have personal stories to tell. They aren't relevant to Chuck's
question unless they are related to how one wires one's electrical system to obtain
high-low pitot heat.
My personal philosophy regarding icing conditions in SE piston powered
aircraft is exactly the same as yours. But, my philosophy about flying in icing
conditions is not relevant to Chuck's question.
The only answer or opinion that Chuck wants is the one that describes to him
how to wire his electrical system to permit high and low pitot heat settings.
We have to leave it to him to decide if such a system is adequate and if it
is wise to employ it in icing conditions.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story. First,
flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and sometimes
often. If you know what you=92re doing and are prepared then the risks
are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are able to
handle it for better then 20 years. It=92s not like flying on a sunny
day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, it=92s not that big
of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the same. Only
experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice in piston
powered planes, you don=92t have many out when the weather gets bad.
When
in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a bigger
battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using less
power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the pitot
heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the speed,
temperature, and heat (layman=92s terms) required to guarantee the
anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a big
guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the book to do
said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula by
comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what you want
to hear but the facts are the facts. The reason that the pitot uses so
much power (in general) is that is what it takes to keep ice off the
probe in 100% humidity at temperatures
Message 42
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Matt,
An interesting concept.
Stan Sutterfield
Why doesn't anyone have a pitot tube heated directly
by the combustion of a hydrocarbon
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Dr. Rodney,
Tell me, o wise one, how can one read the mind of another to determine
whether or not he might misuse information you provide?
You, and others, cannot police everyone's thoughts. Nor should you.
Regards,
Grasshopper
I believe I have some measure of
culpability for the actions of others if I have enabled them in some way to
DO something bad with the information they're gathering. And, I believe the
listers here believe that too!
We listers want everyone here to play safe!
Message 44
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Thank you, Raymond. I could not have said it better.
Stan Sutterfield
Rodney (O Wise Master),
Pretty arrogant of you to think that you have control of or responsibility
for another's actions and to think that you have any right to try to impose
your values on another by attempting to control their actions.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
Message 45
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Wow, a recent first flight?
Tell us about it. Do you have photos posted anywhere?
Couldn't connect to your web site.
Stan Sutterfield
Bob W. (Not a thermodynamist but I learned ohms law at an early age.)
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First Flight: 11/23/2006 7:50AM - 0.7 Hours Total Time
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