Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:13 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (raymondj)
2. 04:49 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (glen matejcek)
3. 06:49 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (jerb)
4. 06:50 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen)
5. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Bob White)
6. 08:48 AM - Re: Decreasing current to DC Motor (John Burnaby)
7. 08:48 AM - Re: LED backlit rocker switches (Ken)
8. 10:24 AM - Re: Firewall penetration (Don Owens)
9. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (C Smith)
10. 02:14 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (sarg314)
11. 03:50 PM - Re: [Spam] Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (bob noffs)
12. 03:50 PM - LED Strobe Lights (D Fritz)
13. 04:24 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Bill Boyd)
14. 06:11 PM - Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Well stated Mr. Sutterfield.
do not archive
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:45 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw
Mike Larkin,
I don't mean to be sarcastic, but you didn't answer any questions - at
least any questions that had been asked. Chuck asked about how to wire his
pitot heat so as to have the option to cycle from low heat to high heat.
I don't agree with Chuck regarding the wisdom of using a lower heat
setting to save power in IMC icing conditions if the alternator fails, but
his question is not, "Should I use a lower heat setting?" His question is,
"How do I wire so to obtain my choice of heat settings?"
We all have personal stories to tell. They aren't relevant to Chuck's
question unless they are related to how one wires one's electrical system to
obtain high-low pitot heat.
My personal philosophy regarding icing conditions in SE piston powered
aircraft is exactly the same as yours. But, my philosophy about flying in
icing conditions is not relevant to Chuck's question.
The only answer or opinion that Chuck wants is the one that describes to
him how to wire his electrical system to permit high and low pitot heat
settings.
We have to leave it to him to decide if such a system is adequate and if
it is wise to employ it in icing conditions.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story. First,
flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and sometimes
often. If you know what you=92re doing and are prepared then the risks
are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are able to
handle it for better then 20 years. It=92s not like flying on a sunny
day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, it=92s not that big
of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the same. Only
experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice in piston
powered planes, you don=92t have many out when the weather gets bad.
When
in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a bigger
battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using less
power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the pitot
heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the speed,
temperature, and heat (layman=92s terms) required to guarantee the
anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a big
guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the book to do
said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula by
comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what you want
to hear but the facts are the facts. Thee it to him to decide if such a
system is adequate and if it is wise to employ it in icing conditions.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story. First,
flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and sometimes
often. If you know what you=92re doing and are prepared then the risks
are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are able to
handle it for better then 20 years. It=92s not like flying on a sunny
day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, it=92s not that big
of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the same. Only
experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice in piston
powered planes, you don=92t have many out when the weather gets bad.
When
in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a bigger
battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using less
power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the pitot
heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the speed,
temperature, and heat (layman=92s terms) required to guarantee the
anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a big
guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the book to do
said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula by
comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what you want
to hear but the facts are the facts. The reason that the pitot uses so
much power (in general) is that is what it takes to keep ice off the
probe in 100% humidity at temperatures < 10dec C.
Sorry for the poor and somewhat sarcastic answer, but I think Chuck
brought it out in me.
Regards,
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck,
You have just experienced the main thing I dislike about this forum.
When you ask for advice or assistance, you will commonly get critique on
why you should not do what it is you want to do. It takes several
attempts at explaining that you don't care about opinions - you simply
want assistance. For example, I've asked how to sample volts and amps
in multiple places in my electrical system. I got "you don't need to
know that info while you're flying." Regardless, I want to be able to
do that so how can I do it? Answer: since I don't think you should do
that I'm not going to tell you how to do it.
As you've discovered, getting an answer can be very frustrating.
Still, I've learned a lot about electrical stuff here and I continue to
learn. So, I still find the forum of value.
I wish I had the answer for you - I would provide it. But, I don't.
Hopefully, you will get an acceptable answer.
Stan Sutterfield
Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's stupid to fly in
ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However, the question stands,
how does one knock down the heat and current draw. Richard mentioned a
'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone enlighten us
non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is being in the clouds,
close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as soon not have to
turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the battery dry in short
order; I'd rather it be in long order.
Chuck Jensen
Message 2
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Subject: | RE: Firewall penetration |
Hi Don
> I have the need to bring several bundles of wire through my RV-7
firewall.
> I have some of the two-piece, stainless, firewall shields, but can't help
> but think there is a better way. Any great ideas out there [Question]
I used Bob's stainless grab bar idea, and really like it. Search the
archives, look at
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Firewall_Penetration/firewall.html , and
consider using the cut off ends of a handicapped shower grab bar. I think
I paid $14 or $17 for the shortest one I could find, which of course
yielded up 2 penetration fittings. One is big enough to handle 3 heavy
engine / prop control cables, 2 bowdens, the MP line, a #2 battery cable,
and the power feed from the alternator. The other one on the other side of
the fire wall has all the sensor lines. I'm quite happy with the way it
has turned out-
glen matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
You may want to look into the light strips. Come in different
lengths and sizes. Low power consumption.
jerb
At 10:20 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
><CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
>Hey all -
>
>I've been monitoring this list for awhile now - I'm building an RV-10 -
>and I wondered if any of the electron whizzes could help me. I'm trying
>to find a good source for custom legend LED backlit rocker switches for
>my project.
>
>I've historically done quite a bit of night flying, and after I got my
>instrument rating, which I did 100% at night (with the one exception of
>the checkride!) I vowed that I would not accept anything less than
>complete readability of all controls and switches at night in the
>cockpit. It just seemed so crazy that I had to juggle 3 flashlights in
>the cockpit - one red led flash attached to my headset, a small red
>maglite for cocpit instruments farther away from the pilot position, and
>one more large one to look for ice on the airframe (yikes!). then I'd
>get into my car after a long night of flying, turn on the lights, and
>have no trouble reading any of the controls or switches. This is how I
>want my aircraft to be! All controls self illuminating, and a
>flashlight for emergency use only! Seems so simple, but I've been
>confounded at every turn. Anyone have any suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Stan,
You're right in that there was a lot of circling of the opinion vultures
before the meat was ripe to eat on this one--but it wasn't wasted time.
As you pointed out, my question was 'how to do it' and not 'is it a good
idea'. Eventually, the first question was answered though the early
hits addressed the second question, which was not asked. However, as
said, that was not wasted time. All education and wisdom on this site
is not necessarily committable to a formula.
The opinions expressed, some relevant, others not, at least got me
thinking...which is a good thing for all of us to do when we are doing
something non-standard. Sometimes, we get so focused on a goal that our
mental blinders causes us to lose sight of the peripheral issues which
are raised for (re)consideration by some of the misdirected postings.
So, I dug through that pile of straw and stuff and found the pony. I
didn't like his color or his size, but he is what he is, so now I have
to decide what to do about him.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 12:45 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw
Mike Larkin,
I don't mean to be sarcastic, but you didn't answer any questions - at
least any questions that had been asked. Chuck asked about how to wire
his pitot heat so as to have the option to cycle from low heat to high
heat.
I don't agree with Chuck regarding the wisdom of using a lower heat
setting to save power in IMC icing conditions if the alternator fails,
but his question is not, "Should I use a lower heat setting?" His
question is, "How do I wire so to obtain my choice of heat settings?"
We all have personal stories to tell. They aren't relevant to Chuck's
question unless they are related to how one wires one's electrical
system to obtain high-low pitot heat.
My personal philosophy regarding icing conditions in SE piston powered
aircraft is exactly the same as yours. But, my philosophy about flying
in icing conditions is not relevant to Chuck's question.
The only answer or opinion that Chuck wants is the one that describes to
him how to wire his electrical system to permit high and low pitot heat
settings.
We have to leave it to him to decide if such a system is adequate and if
it is wise to employ it in icing conditions.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story.
First,
flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and
sometimes
often. If you know what you=92re doing and are prepared then
the risks
are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are
able to
handle it for better then 20 years. It=92s not like flying on a
sunny
day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, it=92s not
that big
of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the
same. Only
experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice in
piston
powered planes, you don=92t have many out when the weather gets
bad.
When
in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a
bigger
battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using
less
power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the
pitot
heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the
speed,
temperature, and heat (layman=92s terms) required to guarantee
the
anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a
big
guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the
book to do
said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula
by
comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what
you want
to hear but the facts are the facts. Thee it to him to decide
if such a system is adequate and if it is wise to employ it in icing
conditions.
Regards,
Stan Sutterfield
The only way I can answer this question is to tell a story.
First,
flying in the ice is something many pilot do every year and
sometimes
often. If you know what you=92re doing and are prepared then
the risks
are minimal. I have been flying in ice with airplanes that are
able to
handle it for better then 20 years. It=92s not like flying on a
sunny
day. But once you get use to it and prepare for it, it=92s not
that big
of a deal. A few words of advice, no two icing days are the
same. Only
experience will help you here. My personal feeling on ice in
piston
powered planes, you don=92t have many out when the weather gets
bad.
When
in ice greater then light find a place to land ASAP.
As for you electric question; First the easy answer is to put a
bigger
battery in the airplane. Second, why would you think that using
less
power for pitot heat is going to be any better then turning the
pitot
heat off all together? Unless you run a thermal equation on the
speed,
temperature, and heat (layman=92s terms) required to guarantee
the
anti-ice properties needed, then everything your doing is just a
big
guess anyway. And I guessing that since I have to go to the
book to do
said equation thoroughly, I would guess the electrical formula
by
comparison would be a piece of cake. I know this is not what
you want
to hear but the facts are the facts. The reason that the pitot
uses so
much power (in general) is that is what it takes to keep ice off
the
probe in 100% humidity at temperatures < 10dec C.
Sorry for the poor and somewhat sarcastic answer, but I think
Chuck
brought it out in me.
Regards,
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf
Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 6:57 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw
Chuck,
You have just experienced the main thing I dislike about this
forum.
When you ask for advice or assistance, you will commonly get
critique on
why you should not do what it is you want to do. It takes
several
attempts at explaining that you don't care about opinions - you
simply
want assistance. For example, I've asked how to sample volts
and amps
in multiple places in my electrical system. I got "you don't
need to
know that info while you're flying." Regardless, I want to be
able to
do that so how can I do it? Answer: since I don't think you
should do
that I'm not going to tell you how to do it.
As you've discovered, getting an answer can be very frustrating.
Still, I've learned a lot about electrical stuff here and I
continue to
learn. So, I still find the forum of value.
I wish I had the answer for you - I would provide it. But, I
don't.
Hopefully, you will get an acceptable answer.
Stan Sutterfield
Okay, I appreciate everyone holding forth that it's stupid to
fly in
ice....I'm not that dumb, I only look it. However, the question
stands,
how does one knock down the heat and current draw. Richard
mentioned a
'strut switch'....whoever that is. Can someone enlighten us
non-electrical types. What I'm concerned about is being in the
clouds,
close to freezing and loose electrical--I'd just as soon not
have to
turn off the pitot heat because it's sucking the battery dry in
short
order; I'd rather it be in long order.
Chuck Jensen
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Pitot Current Draw |
Thanks Stan,
I have a few pictures but haven't updated the web site in quite a
while. Every once in a while it goes off line for a short time. Seems
to be working now. I'll try to at least post the pictures today or
tomorrow.
Bob W.
On Sat, 9 Dec 2006 02:03:30 EST
Speedy11@aol.com wrote:
> Wow, a recent first flight?
> Tell us about it. Do you have photos posted anywhere?
> Couldn't connect to your web site.
> Stan Sutterfield
>
> Bob W. (Not a thermodynamist but I learned ohms law at an early age.)
Do not archive
--
N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com
First Flight: 11/23/2006 7:50AM - 0.7 Hours Total Time
Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Decreasing current to DC Motor |
Thanks Matt.
No offense taken. Knowledge is knowledge.
I've found that most EFI systems are content to move copious amounts of
fuel and I think that it's because the gearotor pump design, in the size
that is found on cars, seems to move between 40 and 65 gph.One can find
pumps of slightly less capacity, but they are almost all fitted with
push on barbed connections. Mine are push-on at the intake (about 1 psi)
and threaded AN fitting on the high pressure end. One pump moves 46 gph
@ 45psi @ 7A through 1/4" line! Both push 78 gph. I need a single pump
output of about 30 gph.The problem is my single pump is at the edge of
cavitation; both on, and I can see air in the transparent intake tubing.
A fellow lister gave me a part # for a Napa pump that is the right
capacity, but the pump has barbed fittings and needs adaptation. I'm
probably going to go this route, but I thought I'd check with the List
to see if there was an electrical solution.
Pulse width modulation is a possibility but has it's own problems of
whacking the bus with surges and potentially causing problems with other
equipment.
JOhn
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: LED backlit rocker switches |
In addition to a glareshield electrolumenescent strip (which I quite
like) and integral instrument lighting I wired a couple of $5. miniature
Home Depot LED gooseneck lights in series and put them on a dimmer. One
on each side of the cockpit above the doors. The gooseneck is about 3"
long. They originally contained little button cells and are intended to
clip onto a shirt pocket so that the little gooseneck LED can be pointed
where you need it. The light spreads out to about a 12" round beam by
the time it hits the panel. I have a separate overhead incandescent map
light so I don't normally leave the LED's on but they are sometimes
handy for illuminating specific switches and they are very low power
consumption in case of electrical problems or loss of other lighting.
They are wired to the battery bus. These are not ideal as I had to run
another ground wire down the gooseneck to isolate the ground wire from
the aluminum battery case. You could insulate the case from the airframe
I suppose. Seemed like a better idea than holding a flashlight in my
teeth though which I was determined not to do...
Switch lighting should really allow both identification AND being able
to see whether the switch is on or off at a glance. Heavy iron machines
often have backlit labeling and lighted 'on' indicators to achieve that.
Sometimes the 'on' indicator even confirms functionality such as nominal
current is flowing, or valve is open, rather than just indicating switch
position.
Ken
jerb wrote:
>
> You may want to look into the light strips. Come in different lengths
> and sizes. Low power consumption.
> jerb
>
> At 10:20 AM 12/7/2006, you wrote:
>
>> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>>
>> Hey all -
>>
>> I've been monitoring this list for awhile now - I'm building an RV-10 -
>> and I wondered if any of the electron whizzes could help me. I'm trying
>> to find a good source for custom legend LED backlit rocker switches for
>> my project.
>>
>> I've historically done quite a bit of night flying, and after I got my
>> instrument rating, which I did 100% at night (with the one exception of
>> the checkride!) I vowed that I would not accept anything less than
>> complete readability of all controls and switches at night in the
>> cockpit. It just seemed so crazy that I had to juggle 3 flashlights in
>> the cockpit - one red led flash attached to my headset, a small red
>> maglite for cocpit instruments farther away from the pilot position, and
>> one more large one to look for ice on the airframe (yikes!). then I'd
>> get into my car after a long night of flying, turn on the lights, and
>> have no trouble reading any of the controls or switches. This is how I
>> want my aircraft to be! All controls self illuminating, and a
>> flashlight for emergency use only! Seems so simple, but I've been
>> confounded at every turn. Anyone have any suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> cj
>> #40410
>> fuse
>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Firewall penetration |
Thanks Glen - That's perfect - just what I was looking for. :)
Don Owens
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p409#80409
Message 9
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Subject: | RE: Pitot Current Draw |
Chuck, if you could e-mail me off the list, I'd like to discuss your pitot
heat requirements. I just joined recently, so I don't have your original
post.
Have been digging through my notes, and what comes next depends on a few
details. Just remove the nospam.
pilot4profit@sbcnospamglobal.net
CS
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck
Jensen
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:08 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw
CS,
I'll look forward to it.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
This outfit has the rhinopro 3000 for $65. Says it prints on heat shrink.
>http://www.provantage.com/dymo-15605~7DYMO02H.htm
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
michael,
i am interested in the dymo labeler #5000 you have. how would it work
for labeling the panel? do the labels really stick? i also read
something about being able to print on shrink tube. is this true?
thanks in advance, bob noffs
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: [Spam] RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire
label-making machines
The kit I bought is The Dymo RhinoPro 5000:
http://global.dymo.com/enUS/ProductAccessories/RhinoPRO_5000_Hard_Case_Ki
t.html
If you scroll down to accessories you'll see that you can get label
cartridges that are actually shrink wrap tubing. They also have a
polyester label that is very durable. Look around and you can find the
kit for about $150.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
springcanyon
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 2:53 PM
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: [Spam] RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire
label-making machines
Michael, I am not familiar with these machines - how does it print on
shrink tubing?
Don Owens
Mark,
I have the Dymo. Works good, lasts long time. J Prints on a
shrink tube also.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
In a message dated 12/07/2006 10:37:52 PM Central Standard Time,
stein@steinair.com writes:
I'm really confused and boggled
Stein- what do you guys use to label your wires? I've used Brady
lablemaker pro (dot matrix through ribbon) but machine is T-up and
looking for replacement, preferably one that prints shrink tube. One
RV-lister recommended the Dymo Rhino Pro 5000. Any other
recommendations out there from actual users of one of these type
machines?
And no, I'm not printing & cutting out itty bitty labels and slipping
them into little pieces of clear shrink tube- I need a one-shot machine
to get this done and move on...
Mark
www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.kitlog.comwww.homebuilthelp.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?AeroElectric-List
Message 12
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Subject: | LED Strobe Lights |
How about these strobes? Has anyone looked into them? The appear to be LED based,
but also appear expensive. They also have integrated strobe/position lights.
http://www.flightcomponents.com/content/view/48/
Dan Fritz
---------------------------------
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
They apparently sell some rather pricey heat shrink for it. 1/2, 3/8
and 1/4 inch flat widths. Is any of that going to grip a 22ga wire
very well?
I'm interested in this technology, but want to know more before I buy
any new toys.
-Bill B
On 12/9/06, sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> This outfit has the rhinopro 3000 for $65. Says it prints on heat shrink.
>
> >http://www.provantage.com/dymo-15605~7DYMO02H.htm
> >
>
>
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: New Topic! Wire label-making machines |
In a message dated 12/9/2006 6:26:35 PM Central Standard Time,
sportav8r@gmail.com writes:
Is any of that going to grip a 22ga wire
very well?
>>>
They claim the 1/4" stuff will go down to 1.18mm- I measured some 22awg
tefzel at 1.25mm. Pretty close, but oughta work. Still not too tickled that it
only seems to print the tube on one side. Leaning towards the Brady ID Pal that
will print multiple rows that can be wrapped around the wire, plus if you
screw up, you can remove the old sticker and put on a new one without removing
the termination...
Mark
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