---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/10/06: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:12 AM - DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer (Fergus Kyle) 2. 09:05 AM - Re: LED Strobe Lights (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 3. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Matt Prather) 4. 09:35 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen) 5. 09:44 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (MLAS) 6. 11:06 AM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Terry Miles) 7. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Bob White) 8. 01:45 PM - Garmin GNS430 Nav board repaired twice (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Beusch?=) 9. 02:41 PM - Re: Pitot Current Draw (Speedy11@aol.com) 10. 03:16 PM - Re: Re: Pitot Current Draw (Chuck Jensen) 11. 10:03 PM - GNS430 VLOC/GPS wiring (Eric Parlow) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:40 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer I looked it up as suggested and believe it's useful BUT the price of heat shrink comes out to about $5 a foot, or perhaps 75cents a label (mistakes excepted). Rolls come in 5 foot lengths. Any- body find better source? Ferg Kyle Europa A064 914 Classic ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:20 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: LED Strobe Lights At 03:49 PM 12/9/2006 -0800, you wrote: >How about these strobes? Has anyone looked into them? The appear to be >LED based, but also appear expensive. They also have integrated >strobe/position lights. > >http://www.flightcomponents.com/content/view/48/ > >Dan Fritz We had some meetings at RAC where the principal and their rep did some presentations on this and other LED based exterior lighting products. I wasn't on the evaluation team tasked with looking into incorporation of the devices on our aircraft . . . but maybe I could track them down and ask about their findings. I'm unaware of any efforts to get them on our airplanes at the moment. We DO use the Wheelan white LED tail lights on several models. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:21 AM PST US From: Matt Prather Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw Hey Chuck, One more idea (I think I've read all of the other messages on this topic - I haven't seen this idea before)... How about modifying the heating element in the heater. Possibly a heating element from a more modest pitot tube could be installed... Matt- Chuck Jensen wrote: > Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al > Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation > that only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was > only trying to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap > to get one of Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't > about functionality, this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot > off an old warbird that I use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The > sharkfin perfectly picks up the lines of the winglets, yadda, > yadda.....trust me, it's just a personal preference. > Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for > use in cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker > coming in, the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning > trash barrels to comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some > real heat!!! > My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either > live with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for > the 60amp alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time > that I start suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor > fix may work, because of the loss to the resistor, the overall > amperage reduction is minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 > to get a $20 tax reduction. > The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put > me in electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the > many tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too > long and contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's > why we sort through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled > out of the horse barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there > might be a pony in there somewhere. > > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *SteinAir, Inc. > *Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see > almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way, > I'm really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this > (and to the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen > out of something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated > pitot on the market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it > varies the current to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on > it's own temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, > when it does it shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the > wheel...someone already has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, > just reading all these posts will waste more time than the $400 and > some odd bucks it takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with > all kinds of crazy little electrical components...bolt it on and go! > Just my 2 cents as usual! > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf > Of* Chuck Jensen > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Hi, Keith, > That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red hot > branding iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough > to keep the pitot stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the > icing is bad enough that it freezes over a warm-to-very warm > pitot, I've got bigger problems that a red hot pitot won't solve. > Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an > efficient means of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some > interval, such as on for 30 seconds, off for two minutes. This > would reduce the total current draw if a person was in the soup, > lost electrical and needed whatever extra time available to get to > safety but didn't dare to turn off the pitot in marginal icing > conditions. > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf > Of *Keith Hallsten > *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Chuck, > > I mounted a 28v Known Ice pitot on the nose of my Velocity. > Since I have a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption > will be reduced by a factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure > that is sufficient for my purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a > Known Ice type of airframe. If I should find enough ice to > overwhelm my lightweight pitot heating system, I have bigger > problems than the pitot. Im not flying yet, but thats my > position for now. > > Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of pitot > is not as critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow > for wind, flying by groundspeed is generally a fair approximation. > > Regards, > > Keith Hallsten > > > *Subject:* */ RE: Pitot Current Draw/* > *From:* */ Chuck Jensen/** (**/_cjensen@dts9000.com_/* > *)* > > *Date:* */ Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM/* > *Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that flying* > > *into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a person* > > *flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, > sooner or* > > *later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking like* > > *something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't > want to* > > *lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new stall* > > *speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't do* > > *that with a pitot full of ice. * > > *So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way off* > > *'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw? * > > *Chuck Jensen* > > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:35:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw From: "Chuck Jensen" Matt, I considered modifying the heating element but this thing is put together with a special Fort Knox Silver Solder that resists removal. I had a pitot exactly like it earlier and tried to dissect it. My final adjustments were with a claw hammer and pipe wrench, so a modification of the element, like shortening it, is probably not going to work. I have a handheld, thermo temp gun that I'm going to 'shoot' the pitot today after it get up to temp--that's assuming the composite nose of the Velo doesn't melt first and the whole thing falls to the ramp. I probably should put a porcupine heater shroud around it and route the heat into the cabin...a pusher can always use the extra heat! Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw --> Hey Chuck, One more idea (I think I've read all of the other messages on this topic - I haven't seen this idea before)... How about modifying the heating element in the heater. Possibly a heating element from a more modest pitot tube could be installed... Matt- Chuck Jensen wrote: > Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al > Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation > that only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was > only trying to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap > to get one of Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't > about functionality, this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot > off an old warbird that I use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The > sharkfin perfectly picks up the lines of the winglets, yadda, > yadda.....trust me, it's just a personal preference. > Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for > use in cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker > coming in, the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning > trash barrels to comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some > real heat!!! > My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either > live with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for > the 60amp alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time > that I start suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor > fix may work, because of the loss to the resistor, the overall > amperage reduction is minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 > to get a $20 tax reduction. > The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put > me in electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the > many tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too > long and contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's > why we sort through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled > out of the horse barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there > might be a pony in there somewhere. > > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *SteinAir, Inc. > *Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see > almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way, > I'm really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this > (and to the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen > out of something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated > pitot on the market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it > varies the current to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on > it's own temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, > when it does it shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the > wheel...someone already has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, > just reading all these posts will waste more time than the $400 and > some odd bucks it takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with > all kinds of crazy little electrical components...bolt it on and go! > Just my 2 cents as usual! > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf > Of* Chuck Jensen > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Hi, Keith, > That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red hot > branding iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough > to keep the pitot stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the > icing is bad enough that it freezes over a warm-to-very warm > pitot, I've got bigger problems that a red hot pitot won't solve. > Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an > efficient means of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some > interval, such as on for 30 seconds, off for two minutes. This > would reduce the total current draw if a person was in the soup, > lost electrical and needed whatever extra time available to get to > safety but didn't dare to turn off the pitot in marginal icing > conditions. > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf > Of *Keith Hallsten > *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Chuck, > > I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity. > Since I have a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption > will be reduced by a factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure > that is sufficient for my purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a > "Known Ice" type of airframe. If I should find enough ice to > overwhelm my "lightweight" pitot heating system, I have bigger > problems than the pitot. I'm not flying yet, but that's my > position for now. > > Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of pitot > is not as critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow > for wind, flying by groundspeed is generally a fair approximation. > > Regards, > > Keith Hallsten > > > *Subject:* */ RE: Pitot Current Draw/* > *From:* */ Chuck Jensen/** (**/_cjensen@dts9000.com_/* > > to=8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local>*)* > > *Date:* */ Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM/* > *Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that > flying* > > *into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a > person* > > *flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, > sooner or* > > *later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking > like* > > *something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't > want to* > > *lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new > stall* > > *speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't > do* > > *that with a pitot full of ice. * > > *So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way > off* > > *'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw? * > > *Chuck Jensen* > > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:49 AM PST US From: "MLAS" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw Stan, You are correct, I was having some fun expressing my view that in my opinion this issue as a builder or flyer is not something worth pursuing. For the real down and dirty instrument flyer this issue just over complicates the business of flying safe to save a few amps. A simple point, a pitot heat system is a safety item much like a fire extinguisher (KISS). I have a different philosophy then many on this site but not all. I answer questions using a strait forward set of rules meeting My basic philosophy. I work towards putting things into the field that work and can be maintained buy the builder. My work goes directly to the builder who is working to get a complete project into the air that is safe, maintainable, reliable, and cost effective both in time and money. But I do respect the more micro of you folks on this board. Without your work and ideas we would not have the wonderful opportunities we have today. So we coexist. My main focus in aviation is safety of operation, both in maintenance and flight. Mike Larkin ----- Original Message ----- From: Speedy11@aol.com To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 10:44 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw Mike Larkin, I don't mean to be sarcastic, but you didn't answer any questions - at least any questions that had been asked. Chuck asked about how to wire his pitot heat so as to have the option to cycle from low heat to high heat. I don't agree with Chuck regarding the wisdom of using a lower heat setting to save power in IMC icing conditions if the alternator fails, but his question is not, "Should I use a lower heat setting?" His question is, "How do I wire so to obtain my choice of heat settings?" We all have personal stories to tell. They aren't relevant to Chuck's question unless they are related to how one wires one's electrical system to obtain high-low pitot heat. My personal philosophy regarding icing conditions in SE piston powered aircraft is exactly the same as yours. But, my philosophy about flying in icing conditions is not relevant to Chuck's question. The only answer or opinion that Chuck wants is the one that describes to him how to wire his electrical system to permit high and low pitot heat settings. We have to leave it to him to decide if such a system is adequate and if it is wise to employ it in icing conditions. Regards, Stan Sutterfield ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:46 AM PST US From: "Terry Miles" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw Hi Chuck, Good luck this afternoon w/ that pilot boom of yours. This might be of no value at all, but I wanted to pass this along. In the DC8 and DC10 the pitot heater actually drew power from two different sources depending on what was called a "ground shift relay" which did all kinds of things based on if there was weight on the landing gear. You could always tell when then did work, because the pitot tubes would turn a distinct shade of burnt blue if they were cooking away on the ground. It was supposed to go from a low amp to high amp and used different current sources too. This factoid is probably of no help. Obviously a Velociy isn't going to have a ground shift mechanism, but maybe this point will trigger of stream on consciousness in some direction for you. Regards, Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw Matt, I considered modifying the heating element but this thing is put together with a special Fort Knox Silver Solder that resists removal. I had a pitot exactly like it earlier and tried to dissect it. My final adjustments were with a claw hammer and pipe wrench, so a modification of the element, like shortening it, is probably not going to work. I have a handheld, thermo temp gun that I'm going to 'shoot' the pitot today after it get up to temp--that's assuming the composite nose of the Velo doesn't melt first and the whole thing falls to the ramp. I probably should put a porcupine heater shroud around it and route the heat into the cabin...a pusher can always use the extra heat! Chuck Jensen Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Prather Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 12:13 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw --> Hey Chuck, One more idea (I think I've read all of the other messages on this topic - I haven't seen this idea before)... How about modifying the heating element in the heater. Possibly a heating element from a more modest pitot tube could be installed... Matt- Chuck Jensen wrote: > Craig/Matt/Bob/Bob again/et al > Thanks for the technical responses which transcends the proclamation > that only dummies fly in ice. And Stein, you have a point if I was > only trying to use some reject hand-me-down pitot and I was too cheap > to get one of Gretz's very elegantly functional pitots. This isn't > about functionality, this is about aesthetics. I have a sharkfin pitot > off an old warbird that I use at the tippy-point of the Velocity. The > sharkfin perfectly picks up the lines of the winglets, yadda, > yadda.....trust me, it's just a personal preference. > Unfortunately, the heating elements in it were obviously designed for > use in cold weather areas. In the winters, when they saw this sucker > coming in, the ramp and line crews left the warmth of their burning > trash barrels to comeover and stand by the pitot where there was some > real heat!!! > My conclusion is if I want to keep the pitot (which I do), I either > live with the current draw, which is really not a serious problem for > the 60amp alternator and just hope I don't need it at the same time > that I start suddenly have a shortage of electrons. While the resistor > fix may work, because of the loss to the resistor, the overall > amperage reduction is minimal.....kind of like having to spend a $100 > to get a $20 tax reduction. > The more attractive alternative is duty cycle--assuming it doesn't put > me in electron hell. Anyhow, I appreciate the many responses and the > many tangents engaged. As to those who thought the thread went on too > long and contain too much irrelevant material, just remember--that's > why we sort through the pile of straw and horse s--t that was shoveled > out of the horse barn with our bare hands---on the oft chance there > might be a pony in there somewhere. > > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *SteinAir, Inc. > *Sent:* Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:31 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Wow! This discussion has really taken on a mind of it's own....I see > almost 41 posts in this thread! As usual and in my own sarcastic way, > I'm really confused and boggled as to why we're even discussing this > (and to the unbelievably detailed technical minutia that has arisen > out of something like this)....when there is a perfectly good heated > pitot on the market that does EXACTLY what you want it to do....it > varies the current to the tube from .1 Amps to 7 Amps depending on > it's own temperature. When it doesn't need the heat it just idles, > when it does it shoves more power out there. Why re-invent the > wheel...someone already has and his name is Warren Gretz! I swear, > just reading all these posts will waste more time than the $400 and > some odd bucks it takes to buy one brand new....no messing around with > all kinds of crazy little electrical components...bolt it on and go! > Just my 2 cents as usual! > Cheers, > Stein. > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf > Of* Chuck Jensen > *Sent:* Tuesday, December 05, 2006 7:18 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Hi, Keith, > That was exactly my thought process also. I didn't want a red hot > branding iron to bore my way through ice cubes...just warm enough > to keep the pitot stuffed full of rain water from freezing. If the > icing is bad enough that it freezes over a warm-to-very warm > pitot, I've got bigger problems that a red hot pitot won't solve. > Since no ideas have been tossed out, I wonder if there is an > efficient means of cycling the pitot heater on/off at some > interval, such as on for 30 seconds, off for two minutes. This > would reduce the total current draw if a person was in the soup, > lost electrical and needed whatever extra time available to get to > safety but didn't dare to turn off the pitot in marginal icing > conditions. > Chuck Jensen > * * > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf > Of *Keith Hallsten > *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2006 10:36 PM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw > > Chuck, > > I mounted a 28v "Known Ice" pitot on the nose of my Velocity. > Since I have a 14 volt electrical system, its power consumption > will be reduced by a factor of 4 (power = V * V / R). I figure > that is sufficient for my purposes, because a Velocity is NOT a > "Known Ice" type of airframe. If I should find enough ice to > overwhelm my "lightweight" pitot heating system, I have bigger > problems than the pitot. I'm not flying yet, but that's my > position for now. > > Actually, now that we all have GPS available to us, loss of pitot > is not as critical as it used to be. With a fat margin to allow > for wind, flying by groundspeed is generally a fair approximation. > > Regards, > > Keith Hallsten > > > *Subject:* */ RE: Pitot Current Draw/* > *From:* */ Chuck Jensen/** (**/_cjensen@dts9000.com_/* > > to=8984A39879F2F5418251CBEEC9C689B32870D7@lucky.dts.local>*)* > > *Date:* */ Mon Dec 04 - 12:06 PM/* > *Wow, I must be hard-of-speaking (or writing). I concede that > flying* > > *into icing when not so equipped is not a good idea, but if a > person* > > *flies IFR in the winter most anywhere in the continental US, > sooner or* > > *later, they'll pick up some ice. Even if my wings start looking > like* > > *something that should be used to cool a gin and tonic, I don't > want to* > > *lose air speed indication. Granted, I may not know what my new > stall* > > *speed is, but I would like to know WHAT my speed is...and I can't > do* > > *that with a pitot full of ice. * > > *So, the question on the table is still the same, is there a way > off* > > *'turning down the heat' and reducing current draw? * > > *Chuck Jensen* > > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com >href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. >matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > >* > >* > > >* > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:58 PM PST US From: Bob White Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw On Sun, 10 Dec 2006 12:36:14 -0500 "Chuck Jensen" wrote: > > Matt, > > I considered modifying the heating element but this thing is put > together with a special Fort Knox Silver Solder that resists removal. I > had a pitot exactly like it earlier and tried to dissect it. My final > adjustments were with a claw hammer and pipe wrench, so a modification > of the element, like shortening it, is probably not going to work. > Hi Chuck, Shorten the element if you would like MORE heat, lesson I learned as a teenager. I had a piece of nichrome wire that I wanted to get red hot. (I have no memory of what I was trying to do other than that.) I stretched the wire out and clamped on an electric cord I could plug into the wall. It got a little hotter than I wanted. Well, I knew ohms law and I knew P=I^2*R so the obvious solution was to cut R in half to get half power. When I plugged it in, that sucker got white hot so fast I didn't have time to blink. Haven't had much trouble keeping ohms law straight since. :) Bob W. Do not archive -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com First Flight: 11/23/2006 7:50AM - 0.7 Hours Total Time Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:37 PM PST US From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_Beusch?= Subject: AeroElectric-List: Garmin GNS430 Nav board repaired twice I have a Garmin GNS430 in my Glasair Super II. The comm is connected to a dipole antenna in the vertical stabilizer, the nav is connected directly (no splitter) to the dipole antenna in the horizontal stabilizer. Both are the antennas that were provided by Stoddard Hamilton, the kit manufacturer, and were installed as per the instruction manual. The antennas perform well. Both times, the VOR/LOC lost 30 dB of sensitivity, apparently the input stage was destroyed. The first repair cost me about $1000, the second was warranty. I wonder if someone had this problem with any kind of nav receiver. Garmin said that it could have been overloaded by the comm transmission because the antennas are to close to each other. (they don't say anything about this in the installation manual) Many people use a splitter for NAV/glideslope, so their receiver gets less signal and would perhaps not be exposed to this problem. As an electronics engineer, I'd like to understand this and will make a measurement of the power that actually gets in the Nav receiver. I have a 250 MHz oscilloscope for that. This nav receiver should pass RTCA DO-196, if someone has these documents handy, I'd be interested to see what the damage input power should be. I also consider putting a 6dB attenuator or an RF limitter on the Nav antenna input. Any opinions? Thanks, --Andre Beusch ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:53 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Pitot Current Draw Thanks, Bob. I'd never heard that term before. Didn't know about the Tripacers either and I owned one! Stan Sutterfield "Cockpit referenced" is a specific term for "vented to cockpit atmosphere" . . . which is what the vast majority of alternate static sources do. The piper Pacer and Tri-Pacer didn't have static systems. The altimeter was simply mounted to the panel and vented to cockpit as was any VSI and/or altitude encoders added at later dates. Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:13 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: RE: Pitot Current Draw From: "Chuck Jensen" Geeez, I guess that's why I ask electrical questions. Now that I think about it, it makes sense...size does matter. Chuck Jensen Bob W. wrote... Shorten the element if you would like MORE heat, lesson I learned as a teenager. I had a piece of nichrome wire that I wanted to get red hot. (I have no memory of what I was trying to do other than that.) I stretched the wire out and clamped on an electric cord I could plug into the wall. It got a little hotter than I wanted. Well, I knew ohms law and I knew P=I^2*R so the obvious solution was to cut R in half to get half power. When I plugged it in, that sucker got white hot so fast I didn't have time to blink. Haven't had much trouble keeping ohms law straight since. :) Do not archive -- N93BD - Rotary Powered BD-4 - http://www.bob-white.com First Flight: 11/23/2006 7:50AM - 0.7 Hours Total Time Cables for your rotary installation - http://www.roblinphoto.com/shop/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:03:00 PM PST US From: "Eric Parlow" Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS430 VLOC/GPS wiring A friend has a GNS430 with an HSI in his RV8A. He's starting to train for IFR in it. When he switches from VLOC to GPS tracking the HSI does not switch to track the GPS waypoint. It continues to track the VOR or Localizer. Is this a wiring issue? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.