---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/14/06: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:49 AM - Re: Heat shrink labelling (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?=) 2. 02:45 AM - Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) () 3. 03:38 AM - Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (Dave) 4. 04:19 AM - DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer (Todd Heffley) 5. 05:03 AM - Re: Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 05:07 AM - Re: Heat shrink labelling (Terry Miles) 7. 06:10 AM - Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (Mike) 8. 06:18 AM - Re: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer (Nancy Ghertner) 9. 07:21 AM - Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 07:50 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 12. 09:24 AM - GNS480 installation manual (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR) 13. 09:27 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Alan K. Adamson) 14. 10:05 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Bill Boyd) 15. 10:44 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Carlos Trigo) 16. 11:01 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Chuck Jensen) 17. 11:26 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Alan K. Adamson) 18. 12:53 PM - Re: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer (rtitsworth) 19. 01:25 PM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (rtitsworth) 20. 01:50 PM - Re: Annunciator Panel Update? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 21. 01:54 PM - Re: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer (Nancy Ghertner) 22. 02:05 PM - Re: Experimental conversion (PWilson) 23. 02:42 PM - Annunciator Panel Update? (Craig Berland) 24. 02:50 PM - Re: GNS480 installation manual (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 25. 03:16 PM - Re: Experimental conversion (John Danielson) 26. 08:40 PM - Re: Wire label-making machines (Speedy11@aol.com) 27. 09:10 PM - Re: Experimental conversion (Richard Girard) 28. 09:13 PM - Re: Experimental conversion (Kelly McMullen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:49:25 AM PST US From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Heat shrink labelling My 2 cents on wire numbering. My schematics are identified via two letters ' FP for Flaps, PW for electrical power etc. Each wire on a particular schematic has its number, starting with 1 and going up Each wire belongs to a circuit identified by two letters, independent of the schematic, starting with AA, then AB, then AC etc. All this of course is contained in spread sheets via an export of the schematic wire identification labels. Each wire is therefore numbered as follows: SSNNCC where SS is the schematic, NN is the number and CC is the circuit. Hence when I look at a wire, for example FP34EA I know that it is wire #34 on the Flaps schematic and it belongs to circuit EA (power to the flap motor ' excel spreadsheet). The reason for labelling the circuit in is that two wires MUST be on the same circuit when they join. Hence if I find two wires on a connector with labels FP34EA and PW45EA respectively then I know it is OK. But if the circuits do not match ' they are not connected correctly. An EA wire should connect to another EA wire and nothing else. This is the key to render connecting things together pretty well fool proof as far as connector blocks are concerned. That=92s it ' I found it makes connecting things and tracing them quite easy ' saves a lot of time and reduces the risk of a =91Smoke gets in your eyes..=92. Later on, when time comes for maintenance or trouble shooting, this numbering system should be a great help. Of course, if the schematic is wrong=85 Michele RV8 - Finishing _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Morgan Sent: jeudi 14 d=E9cembre 2006 07:08 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Heat shrink labelling Just another approach. We got 400 pairs of numbered heat shrink, 300 pairs of 3/32" and 100 pairs of 1/4" - Each label being 3/4" long, www.merithian.com - total cost was about US$60. Every wire / cable then has one label on each end and a spreadsheet for look up for wire size / termination / routing / function. So far has worked really well. Carl -- ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2006 4:17 p.m. Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer Since I started this discussion, thought I'd chime in on my purchase decision. I've opted for a Brady ID Pal, for about $100. It doesn't print heat-shrink tubing, but the Dymo Rhyno cartridges are pretty pricey for only 5 feet of tube. The standard cartridges are smaller (less total length) on the Dymos, and Brady claims there is less waste (margin) on their labels. We'll see.. My thinking is that if I really NEED a heat-shrink tube label, I'll make a standard label and apply a clear shrink-tube around it. Usual suspects might be anything FWF. But the MAJOR factor was that using the wrap-around labels, you can print up to 4 (I think) lines of text on each label- a no-brainer since this kind of label is vastly easier to read when you are standing on your head with a maglite in your teeth trying to find the "E1-26A" wire in that bundle going to the audio panel. Whatever. My best investigations indicate that the heat-shrink tubes only get one line of text- not too handy, IMHO... Will produce a "product evaluation report" upon reciept and use of Brady label machine... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:28 AM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) Kaluza: That would be fine to drive the LSII from the main bus and AUX battery with a Schottky diode. Here is Klaus diagram I modified as I think you described. http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7803/presentation1wm4.jpg (you may get by with less than a 4.5 amp/hr battery, depending on your endurance needs) Skytec also has suggestions: http://www.skytecair.com/EI.htm (notice the capacitor solution, independant of using the Aux battery, a 50,000 mfd cost about $36.00. I like the battery better if you already have it and its suitable.) Is the rocky mountain really up to charging the battery? You may have to decided that. There is no reason why you can't let the airplane charge it is there? What kind of aux battery is it? The reason you may have got a kick back after 360 hours is your main battery is starting to get weaker (from age) and possibly cold weather is affecting it. Also the starter may be draining more with cold weather starts, lowering the voltage during start. Never the less having the ignition w/ AUX pwr during start will fix it. AUX does not drive the starter so voltage stays up. No EI is immune from start kick back with super low supply voltage. The lightspeed happens to be one of the best for starting because it takes very low voltage to work, like 6 to 8 volts. Most planes should maintain that during start. Any EI on the market will have a problem including the E-mag which has also had kick backs, if the voltage is too low. On RV's we use a small battery and light weight starters that take almost 300 amps to crank. With permanent magnet starters (which have high current demands) and small Odyssey batteries we use in RV's, you can get start irregularities. You can get a bigger main battery or different starter as alternative solutions. Wire wound starters uses less current. I highly recommend the SkyTec High Torque or new NL model. You probably have a Flyweight PM skytec? A bigger battery may not be possible or practical but that may solve the issue as well with the starter. The wiring of the Aux to the Lightspeed Plasma II is the best option in my opinion. Feel free to ignore Bob's comments: >>"not designed to work in the real world of airplanes. >>In this case, a software fix to the product in question >>would prevent inadvertent kick-backs." It is not a software fix. That's 100% wrong. Bob has no clue what he is talking about. The product is excellent, in service for over a decade, very mature and works in the real world of airplanes. Absurd comment, it's the nature of any CDI ignition that relies on external power; it needs min voltage. The lightspeed is no different. Also Bobs other comment can be ignored: >>"you need to be able to shut EVERYTHING down >>without having the engine quit You have one mag so the engine quiting is not an issue. You can always turn the EI off to save power. I don't recommend Z-30 or ABMM for your simple needs. >>Adding an aux battery per Z-30 has always been >>the universal Band-Aid for this phenomenon. This adds weight and complexity of a large contactor (relay). Bob loves to add wires, weight and switches. LOVES IT! ALL YOU NEED IS TO KEEP EI VOLTAGE UP DURING START. Cheers George (no space shuttle solution, simple is better) >From: "Charles Kaluza" >We have 360 hours on our RV6A with one mag and >the Lightspeed II unit which has worked well. We >have had one kickback when starting on the >Lightspeed with a low battery. Spoke with Klaus >about using my backup battery as an additional >power source for the unit. He thought it would be >fine as long as I used a Shottky diode (90SQ030) to >prevent back feed from the auxiliary battery to the >main. The engine starts better on the Lightspeed but >we have been starting on the mag since the >kickback. I am debating using power from the E-Bus >which I have activated during start vs. running the >Aux. power direct from the Aux. battery. The second >option would allow better charging of the Aux. >battery. I worry about excess current flow if the Aux. >battery is low causing the 5 amp fuse >on the Lightspeed to blow. Any advice? >The Aux. battery is currently charged through my >Rocky Mountain monitor. >>Time: 10:11:40 AM PST US >>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to >>Lightspeed >>This issue (and others like it) have surfaced dozens >>of times over the past 15 years. There are some >>products not designed to work in the real world of >>airplanes. In this case, a software fix to the product >>in question would prevent inadvertent kick-backs >>due to low bus voltage or any other stimulus. >>Adding an aux battery per Z-30 has always been >>the universal Band-Aid for this phenomenon. >>Further, it offers an opportunity to run other >>electrically-dependent engine accessories from a >>"protected" supply. >>No diodes needed (therefore no charging issues). >>Battery may be any practical size needed to >>address your endurance needs. Closing the >>contactor may be automatic. >>See: http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.pdf >>or manual or manual with warnings . . . >>See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf >>Any item needed to keep an engine running should >>be operated from an always-hot battery bus . . . if >>you got bad smells in the cockpit, you need to be >>able to shut EVERYTHING down without having >>the engine quit. >>Bob --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:25 AM PST US From: Dave Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to Lightspeed This is not an electric solution to your issue but Mattituck, from whom I purchased my LSE II+ and Slick Mag-equipped TMX-O360, recommends always starting on the mag. By starting "better", I assume you mean your engine starts more quickly, with less current draw by the starter, but maybe the always-in-the-right-direction mag start ends up being a better deal... ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:40 AM PST US From: Todd Heffley Subject: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer > Has anyone experimented with flattening "regular" heat shrink tubing and then trying to print/label on it? Yes, It went like this. Take the platen roller out of a old Dot Matrix Printer. I found a LARGE printer at a second hand store. 5$. Turn several grooves of different sizes around the platen. I just chucked it into a drill press and used a razor sharp chisel. Took several attempts to shape the groove. modified paper feeder to feed 3/16" wide "Paper". I ordered white heat shrink, thin wall. (allied?). Being wrapped around the platen, it automaticallty flattens out. I did use a clothes iron to flatten the tubing, that was not helpfull. Laout a Word Document 1 Character wide, 3 feet long. Bold text, letter quality. Final report. It Worked. Very inexpensive compared to alternatives. A little hassle to set up. Then a got a job at a company that had a Wire Stamp machine I could use any time.... lost interest. Email me if you want more details. Dont overlook the simplicity of wrapping the heat shrink around a 1" plastic pvc pipe and writing on it with a Sharpie. The tube flattens out fine. Todd -- Todd Heffley todd@toddheffley.com (817)845-0145 ----- End forwarded message ----- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:32 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) At 02:44 AM 12/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Kaluza: That would be fine to drive the LSII from the >main bus and AUX battery with a Schottky diode. Here >is Klaus diagram I modified as I think you described. > >http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7803/presentation1wm4.jpg > >(you may get by with less than a 4.5 amp/hr battery, >depending on your endurance needs) > >Skytec also has suggestions: >http://www.skytecair.com/EI.htm > >(notice the capacitor solution, independant of using the Aux >battery, a 50,000 mfd cost about $36.00. I like the battery better >if you already have it and its suitable.) > >Is the rocky mountain really up to charging the >battery? You may have to decided that. There is no >reason why you can't let the airplane charge it is there? >What kind of aux battery is it? > >The reason you may have got a kick back after 360 >hours is your main battery is starting to get weaker >(from age) and possibly cold weather is affecting it. >Also the starter may be draining more with cold >weather starts, lowering the voltage during start. Never >the less having the ignition w/ AUX pwr during start will >fix it. AUX does not drive the starter so voltage stays up. > >No EI is immune from start kick back with super low >supply voltage. The lightspeed happens to be one of the >best for starting because it takes very low voltage to >work, like 6 to 8 volts. Most planes should maintain >that during start. > >Any EI on the market will have a problem including >the E-mag which has also had kick backs, if the voltage >is too low. On RV's we use a small battery and light >weight starters that take almost 300 amps to crank. > >With permanent magnet starters (which have high >current demands) and small Odyssey batteries we use in >RV's, you can get start irregularities. You can get a >bigger main battery or different starter as alternative >solutions. > >Wire wound starters uses less current. I highly >recommend the SkyTec High Torque or new NL model. >You probably have a Flyweight PM skytec? > >A bigger battery may not be possible or practical but >that may solve the issue as well with the starter. > >The wiring of the Aux to the Lightspeed Plasma II is >the best option in my opinion. > > >Feel free to ignore Bob's comments: > > >>"not designed to work in the real world of airplanes. > >>In this case, a software fix to the product in question > >>would prevent inadvertent kick-backs." > >It is not a software fix. That's 100% wrong. Bob has no >clue what he is talking about. The product is excellent, >in service for over a decade, very mature and works in >the real world of airplanes. Absurd comment, it's the >nature of any CDI ignition that relies on external power; >it needs min voltage. The lightspeed is no different. > >Also Bobs other comment can be ignored: > > >>"you need to be able to shut EVERYTHING down > >>without having the engine quit > >You have one mag so the engine quiting is not an >issue. You can always turn the EI off to save power. > >I don't recommend Z-30 or ABMM for your simple needs. > > >>Adding an aux battery per Z-30 has always been > >>the universal Band-Aid for this phenomenon. > >This adds weight and complexity of a large contactor (relay). >Bob loves to add wires, weight and switches. LOVES IT! > >ALL YOU NEED IS TO KEEP EI VOLTAGE UP DURING START. > >Cheers George (no space shuttle solution, simple is better) > > > >From: "Charles Kaluza" > <charleskaluza@verizon.net> > > >We have 360 hours on our RV6A with one mag and > >the Lightspeed II unit which has worked well. We > >have had one kickback when starting on the > >Lightspeed with a low battery. Spoke with Klaus > >about using my backup battery as an additional > >power source for the unit. He thought it would be > >fine as long as I used a Shottky diode (90SQ030) to > >prevent back feed from the auxiliary battery to the > >main. The engine starts better on the Lightspeed but > >we have been starting on the mag since the > >kickback. I am debating using power from the E-Bus > >which I have activated during start vs. running the > >Aux. power direct from the Aux. battery. The second > >option would allow better charging of the Aux. > >battery. I worry about excess current flow if the Aux. > >battery is low causing the 5 amp fuse > >on the Lightspeed to blow. Any advice? > > >The Aux. battery is currently charged through my > >Rocky Mountain monitor. > > >>Time: 10:11:40 AM PST US > >>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" ><nuckollsr@cox.net> > >>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to > >>Lightspeed > > >>This issue (and others like it) have surfaced dozens > >>of times over the past 15 years. There are some > >>products not designed to work in the real world of > >>airplanes. In this case, a software fix to the product > >>in question would prevent inadvertent kick-backs > >>due to low bus voltage or any other stimulus. > > >>Adding an aux battery per Z-30 has always been > >>the universal Band-Aid for this phenomenon. > >>Further, it offers an opportunity to run other > >>electrically-dependent engine accessories from a > >>"protected" supply. > > >>No diodes needed (therefore no charging issues). > >>Battery may be any practical size needed to > >>address your endurance needs. Closing the > >>contactor may be automatic. > > >>See: >http://aeroelectric.com/articles/lvwarn/LVWarn-ABMM.pdf > > > >>or manual or manual with warnings . . . > > >>See: >http://www.aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AEC/9011/9011-700-1C.pdf > > > >>Any item needed to keep an engine running should > >>be operated from an always-hot battery bus . . . if > >>you got bad smells in the cockpit, you need to be > >>able to shut EVERYTHING down without having > >>the engine quit. > >>Bob > > >www.buildersbooks.com >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > >-- incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:30 AM PST US From: "Terry Miles" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Heat shrink labelling I want to add a little on this topic too.and how to label. I'm 60. When you get to that age (and we all do) reading labels can be a task in small, dark places. Somebody wrote this week in jest about hold a flashlight in one hand, the magnifying glass in another, adjusting your bi-focals with another, and trying to attach or remove that wire with another..well he is right! And keep the coding short if you can. Having some minor experience at this, I want to add that having the wire identification printed several times around the sleeve of heat shink is very very important in places like d-subs or other times when wires will get turned, or covered in a cluster with other wires so that you can only see the side of it. Thank you to every who contributes to this. When we put our heads together, it's a great time saver. Terry _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Morgan Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:08 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Heat shrink labelling Just another approach. We got 400 pairs of numbered heat shrink, 300 pairs of 3/32" and 100 pairs of 1/4" - Each label being 3/4" long, www.merithian.com - total cost was about US$60. Every wire / cable then has one label on each end and a spreadsheet for look up for wire size / termination / routing / function. So far has worked really well. Carl -- ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2006 4:17 p.m. Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer Since I started this discussion, thought I'd chime in on my purchase decision. I've opted for a Brady ID Pal, for about $100. It doesn't print heat-shrink tubing, but the Dymo Rhyno cartridges are pretty pricey for only 5 feet of tube. The standard cartridges are smaller (less total length) on the Dymos, and Brady claims there is less waste (margin) on their labels. We'll see.. My thinking is that if I really NEED a heat-shrink tube label, I'll make a standard label and apply a clear shrink-tube around it. Usual suspects might be anything FWF. But the MAJOR factor was that using the wrap-around labels, you can print up to 4 (I think) lines of text on each label- a no-brainer since this kind of label is vastly easier to read when you are standing on your head with a maglite in your teeth trying to find the "E1-26A" wire in that bundle going to the audio panel. Whatever. My best investigations indicate that the heat-shrink tubes only get one line of text- not too handy, IMHO... Will produce a "product evaluation report" upon reciept and use of Brady label machine... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:28 AM PST US From: "Mike" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to Lightspeed Kaluza, One other point to note is how you wired the Lightspeed box! I have found that if you pick the power from the bus main feed (main bus) Away from the battery, this will in many cases cause the same problem. It is imperative that you wire the ignition directly from the battery terminal, you may use what every switching or circuit protection you would like. Mike Larkin -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kaluza Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 9:31 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to Lightspeed We have 360 hours on our RV6A with one mag and the Lightspeed II unit which has worked well. We have had one kickback when starting on the Lightspeed with a low battery. Spoke with Klaus about using my backup battery as an additional power source for the unit. He thought it would be fine as long as I used a Shottky diode (90SQ030) to prevent back feed from the auxiliary battery to the main. The engine starts better on the Lightspeed but we have been starting on the mag since the kickback. I am debating using power from the E-Bus which I have activated during start vs. running the Aux. power direct from the Aux. battery. The second option would allow better charging of the Aux. battery. I worry about excess current flow if the Aux. battery is low causing the 5 amp fuse on the Lightspeed to blow. Any advice? The Aux. battery is currently charged through my Rocky Mountain monitor. Thanks for the help. Kaluza "http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com "http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com "http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com "http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com "http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribu tion "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List"http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List -- 12/12/2006 -- 12/12/2006 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:27 AM PST US From: Nancy Ghertner Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer On 12/13/06 10:16 PM, "Fiveonepw@aol.com" wrote: > Since I started this discussion, thought I'd chime in on my purchase > decision. I've opted for a Brady ID Pal, for about $100. It doesn't print > heat-shrink tubing, but the Dymo Rhyno cartridges are pretty pricey for only 5 > feet of > tube. The standard cartridges are smaller (less total length) on the Dymos, > and Brady claims there is less waste (margin) on their labels. We'll see.. > > My thinking is that if I really NEED a heat-shrink tube label, I'll make a > standard label and apply a clear shrink-tube around it. Usual suspects might > be > anything FWF. But the MAJOR factor was that using the wrap-around labels, > you can print up to 4 (I think) lines of text on each label- a no-brainer > since > this kind of label is vastly easier to read when you are standing on your head > with a maglite in your teeth trying to find the "E1-26A" wire in that bundle > going to the audio panel. Whatever. My best investigations indicate that the > heat-shrink tubes only get one line of text- not too handy, IMHO... > > Will produce a "product evaluation report" upon reciept and use of Brady > label machine... > >> From The PossumWorks in TN > Mark > I have been using a Kroy, bought new for around $200 for the last few years. Operation is a little finicky but it prints stick on labels and white heat shrink tubing which comes in cartridges for about $30 a piece. I used 3 cartridges (2 for small tubing and 1 for larger wires) to do my all electric Glasair. I can only print 1 line of text on the smaller wires but multiple on the larger. I put labels at each end of the wire and sometimes along bundles. Also, I actually print names of wires instead of codes, as I am an idiot at things that aren't simple. Lory Ghertner ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:25 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Alternate feed to Lightspeed At 07:04 AM 12/14/2006 -0700, you wrote: >Kaluza, > > >One other point to note is how you wired the Lightspeed box! I have found >that if you pick the power from the bus main feed (main bus) > >Away from the battery, this will in many cases cause the same problem. It >is imperative that you wire the ignition directly from the battery >terminal, you may use what every switching or circuit protection you would >like. When a device becomes sensitive to installation processes, it can be said "not designed to live in the real world". If Mattituck suggests not using the Lightspeed ignition to start the engine demonstrates their own assessment of shortfall in this product's operating characteristics. A simple delay in the system ability to deliver spark energy to something like 300 milliseconds after starter engagement is clearly called for so that the ignition system is not victimized by the short lived brown-out imposed by starter inrush currents. An exemplar trace of an inrush brown-out event is shown at: http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/99_Saturn_SL1.jpg Many writers have indicated that they can use their Lightspeed system to start the engine if the ignition switch is simply left of until after the starter is engaged. This provides a manual delay work-around to ignition system activation that should be a part of the product's design. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:28:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Alternate feed to Lightspeed (easy fix) At 02:44 AM 12/14/2006 -0800, you wrote: >Kaluza: That would be fine to drive the LSII from the >main bus and AUX battery with a Schottky diode. Here >is Klaus diagram I modified as I think you described. > >http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7803/presentation1wm4.jpg > >The wiring of the Aux to the Lightspeed Plasma II is >the best option in my opinion. > > >Feel free to ignore Bob's comments: > > >>"not designed to work in the real world of airplanes. > >>In this case, a software fix to the product in question > >>would prevent inadvertent kick-backs." > >It is not a software fix. That's 100% wrong. Bob has no >clue what he is talking about. The product is excellent, >in service for over a decade, very mature and works in >the real world of airplanes. Absurd comment, it's the >nature of any CDI ignition that relies on external power; >it needs min voltage. The lightspeed is no different. > >Also Bobs other comment can be ignored: > > >>"you need to be able to shut EVERYTHING down > >>without having the engine quit > >You have one mag so the engine quiting is not an >issue. You can always turn the EI off to save power. George, as per your long demonstrated habits, you pull things out of context and use them to hammer me instead of supporting and/or explaining the science. > >I don't recommend Z-30 or ABMM for your simple needs. > > >>Adding an aux battery per Z-30 has always been > >>the universal Band-Aid for this phenomenon. > >This adds weight and complexity of a large contactor (relay). >Bob loves to add wires, weight and switches. LOVES IT! > >ALL YOU NEED IS TO KEEP EI VOLTAGE UP DURING START. Or don't ask the ignition system to go to work until after inrush brown-out is over - EASILY accommodated in software. > >Cheers George (no space shuttle solution, simple is better) You claim a great deal of knowledge about both the science behind Lightspeed's products and my personality traits . . . both of which are demonstrably in error. Since your behavior between the last time you were asked to leave and the present have not changed, I'll repeat my original request: Please go away, you're not being helpful. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:33 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? At 05:30 PM 12/13/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >Anybody got an update on the potential annunciator panel that was being >discussed several months ago? > >Thanks > >Bob That topic was one of several being massaged around plates of tacos at the el Mexico cafe but it seems to have died out. None of the pepper-heads present has demonstrated an interest in stepping up to the project. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:24 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS480 installation manual From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Does anyone have a .PDF version of the GNS480 installation manual? I've tried the Garmin site without success.... And there doesn't seem To be anything in the archives.... Fred Stucklen RV-7A N924RV (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:56 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. I've been toying with a simple microprocessor based application that could take either active hi, or active low, and maybe alternating types of inputs. It could then generate either active hi, or active low, or flashing outputs, along with an associated audio notification event. This would all be configurable from a simple serial port based device and some windows or other software. It would obviously support a "test" mode and would be configurable for audio volume. Second generation would allow recorded voice instead of simple tones. Most likely, I'd center it around low power incandescent or LED annunciation lights. Because IO on micros *isnt* unlimited, perhaps looking at 8 gazintas, and 8 gazoutas as a start. Power would be 9-32v and regulated on the board. I'd look for something the size of a pack of gum or maybe just a smidge large to stay in thru hole parts and allow it to be available in Kit form. Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do the Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my desire for the above. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? --> At 05:30 PM 12/13/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >Anybody got an update on the potential annunciator panel that was being >discussed several months ago? > >Thanks > >Bob That topic was one of several being massaged around plates of tacos at the el Mexico cafe but it seems to have died out. None of the pepper-heads present has demonstrated an interest in stepping up to the project. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:17 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Put me down as interested in one, Alan. Bill B. re-doing RV panel for glass/IFR this spring On 12/14/06, Alan K. Adamson wrote: > > Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. > > I've been toying with a simple microprocessor based application that could > take either active hi, or active low, and maybe alternating types of inputs. > It could then generate either active hi, or active low, or flashing outputs, > along with an associated audio notification event. This would all be > configurable from a simple serial port based device and some windows or > other software. It would obviously support a "test" mode and would be > configurable for audio volume. Second generation would allow recorded voice > instead of simple tones. Most likely, I'd center it around low power > incandescent or LED annunciation lights. > > Because IO on micros *isnt* unlimited, perhaps looking at 8 gazintas, and 8 > gazoutas as a start. Power would be 9-32v and regulated on the board. I'd > look for something the size of a pack of gum or maybe just a smidge large to > stay in thru hole parts and allow it to be available in Kit form. > > Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do the > Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my > desire for the above. > > Alan > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:21 AM PST US From: "Carlos Trigo" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Allan Looks very good to me. (Although I don't have the slightest idea what "gazintas" and "gazoutas" are!?) I'd be interested. Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan K. Adamson" Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? > > > Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. > > I've been toying with a simple microprocessor based application that could > take either active hi, or active low, and maybe alternating types of > inputs. > It could then generate either active hi, or active low, or flashing > outputs, > along with an associated audio notification event. This would all be > configurable from a simple serial port based device and some windows or > other software. It would obviously support a "test" mode and would be > configurable for audio volume. Second generation would allow recorded > voice > instead of simple tones. Most likely, I'd center it around low power > incandescent or LED annunciation lights. > > Because IO on micros *isnt* unlimited, perhaps looking at 8 gazintas, and > 8 > gazoutas as a start. Power would be 9-32v and regulated on the board. > I'd > look for something the size of a pack of gum or maybe just a smidge large > to > stay in thru hole parts and allow it to be available in Kit form. > > Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do > the > Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my > desire for the above. > > Alan > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? From: "Chuck Jensen" Carlos Trigo wrote... Allan Looks very good to me. (Although I don't have the slightest idea what "gazintas" and "gazoutas" are!?) I'd be interested. Carlos Think of it as a batch of bad food from Taco Bell. The food "gazintas" and a few hours later, the food "gazoutas", though I suspect Alan was referencing electrons and not e coli. Chuck Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:47 AM PST US From: "Alan K. Adamson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Inputs and outputs :)... Alan - wow, based upon all the comments (directly) to me, I guess you guys might motivate me to do this.... Now to see if I can con a friend into doing the firmware.... I am after all trying to finish my airplane too... -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Trigo Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 1:41 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? --> Allan Looks very good to me. (Although I don't have the slightest idea what "gazintas" and "gazoutas" are!?) I'd be interested. Carlos ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan K. Adamson" Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? > > > Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. > > I've been toying with a simple microprocessor based application that could > take either active hi, or active low, and maybe alternating types of > inputs. > It could then generate either active hi, or active low, or flashing > outputs, > along with an associated audio notification event. This would all be > configurable from a simple serial port based device and some windows or > other software. It would obviously support a "test" mode and would be > configurable for audio volume. Second generation would allow recorded > voice > instead of simple tones. Most likely, I'd center it around low power > incandescent or LED annunciation lights. > > Because IO on micros *isnt* unlimited, perhaps looking at 8 gazintas, and > 8 > gazoutas as a start. Power would be 9-32v and regulated on the board. > I'd > look for something the size of a pack of gum or maybe just a smidge large > to > stay in thru hole parts and allow it to be available in Kit form. > > Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do > the > Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my > desire for the above. > > Alan > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:39 PM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer What model is your Kroy? How long is a $30 cartridge of heat shrink? -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Nancy Ghertner Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:14 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer On 12/13/06 10:16 PM, "Fiveonepw@aol.com" wrote: > Since I started this discussion, thought I'd chime in on my purchase > decision. I've opted for a Brady ID Pal, for about $100. It doesn't print > heat-shrink tubing, but the Dymo Rhyno cartridges are pretty pricey for only 5 > feet of > tube. The standard cartridges are smaller (less total length) on the Dymos, > and Brady claims there is less waste (margin) on their labels. We'll see.. > > My thinking is that if I really NEED a heat-shrink tube label, I'll make a > standard label and apply a clear shrink-tube around it. Usual suspects might > be > anything FWF. But the MAJOR factor was that using the wrap-around labels, > you can print up to 4 (I think) lines of text on each label- a no-brainer > since > this kind of label is vastly easier to read when you are standing on your head > with a maglite in your teeth trying to find the "E1-26A" wire in that bundle > going to the audio panel. Whatever. My best investigations indicate that the > heat-shrink tubes only get one line of text- not too handy, IMHO... > > Will produce a "product evaluation report" upon reciept and use of Brady > label machine... > >> From The PossumWorks in TN > Mark > I have been using a Kroy, bought new for around $200 for the last few years. Operation is a little finicky but it prints stick on labels and white heat shrink tubing which comes in cartridges for about $30 a piece. I used 3 cartridges (2 for small tubing and 1 for larger wires) to do my all electric Glasair. I can only print 1 line of text on the smaller wires but multiple on the larger. I put labels at each end of the wire and sometimes along bundles. Also, I actually print names of wires instead of codes, as I am an idiot at things that aren't simple. Lory Ghertner ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:23 PM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Alan, It would also be nice if the audio output could be manually muted (i.e. until the input conditions was fixed at which point it would auto re-arm) unless/until another input generated a second warning which would trigger a subsequent audio signal. This is better than shutting off the audio as you could forget to turn it back on/up. It would also be nice to have the visual intensity dimmable (perhaps external to the board) as it would be nice to have the annunciations "very" bright during the day, but not blinding at night. If it were LED based, it would be nice to be able to configure/switch the LED colors (red, yellow, green, etc) during assembly. Some thoughts on the test function/circuit... 1) It could be designed to only test the lights by suppling power directly to the lights (bypassing the processor) - simple and software independent but a rather weak "test". 2) It could be designed into the processor/code (ie. a manually activated "all on" mode). 3) It could be designed to be a circuit "in-front" of the processor (i.e. pulling all selected inputs high or low - thereby testing the processor/coding as well) which is the most complex. If option #2 (above) it might be nice if the "test" were automatically performed at startup such that all the lights would initially come on automatically and then hitting the test (or mute) button would extinguish them. Thereafter, you would hold the momentary "test" button to test again. Perhaps "holding" the mute button (>1 sec) would function as the test button (saving a button). Of course, following a "test" event, any prior illuminated warnings should still be illuminated. .02 Rick -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan K. Adamson Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:27 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. I've been toying with a simple microprocessor based application that could take either active hi, or active low, and maybe alternating types of inputs. It could then generate either active hi, or active low, or flashing outputs, along with an associated audio notification event. This would all be configurable from a simple serial port based device and some windows or other software. It would obviously support a "test" mode and would be configurable for audio volume. Second generation would allow recorded voice instead of simple tones. Most likely, I'd center it around low power incandescent or LED annunciation lights. Because IO on micros *isnt* unlimited, perhaps looking at 8 gazintas, and 8 gazoutas as a start. Power would be 9-32v and regulated on the board. I'd look for something the size of a pack of gum or maybe just a smidge large to stay in thru hole parts and allow it to be available in Kit form. Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do the Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my desire for the above. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? --> At 05:30 PM 12/13/2006 -0800, you wrote: > > >Anybody got an update on the potential annunciator panel that was being >discussed several months ago? > >Thanks > >Bob That topic was one of several being massaged around plates of tacos at the el Mexico cafe but it seems to have died out. None of the pepper-heads present has demonstrated an interest in stepping up to the project. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:54 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? At 12:26 PM 12/14/2006 -0500, you wrote: > > >Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. > >Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do the >Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is driving my >desire for the above. > >Alan Alan, If I may be of assistance in helping configure I/O, designing with DO-160 friendly techniques, helping with packaging, I'd be pleased to help. Bob . . ., ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:03 PM PST US From: Nancy Ghertner Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: DYMO RhinoPRO3000 label writer On 12/14/06 3:51 PM, "rtitsworth" wrote: > > > What model is your Kroy? > How long is a $30 cartridge of heat shrink? > I have the k2500. The cartridge holds 114" of the 1/8" heat shrink which works very well for 22AWG. It wastes about an inch at the start of each printing, and the space between each label is controllable. Lory Ghertner ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:16 PM PST US From: PWilson Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion It is my understanding that there is no need to change the cert or to try to convert to LSA from exp. As long as the LSA criteria is met then the plane can be flown by a sport pilot. The main things are take off weight, speed, etc. Gross weight does not enter in to the criteria and is note even listed as criteria. Lots of misinformation on the net but the last FAA reading from Washington validates the above. The biggest error non FAA people make is equating gross weight to max take off weight which is definitely incorrect. Correct about an exp you can do the work but need a qualified person for the annuals. Paul ============== At 12:17 AM 12/13/2006, you wrote: >Case in point as to what Dan Lloyd said, after selling my -6 and >starting my -7a I bought a Teenie 2 to stay in the air. After the >recnet rule changes the Teenie 2 now falls under the LSA rules but, >only IF you are the builder, I'm not. Because I am not the orginal >builder, it is, and will always be registered as an "Eperimental", >and because I do not hold a Repairmans Cert. for it, must always >have the annual done by an A&P. > From what I have found out in this cases anyway, I can not convert > it to a LSA (if I wanted to) unless I build a new ship (look > Horton, no holes) and register it under the LSA rules. >As with any "Experimental" I can add modify, upgrade, repair, etc. >nearly anything I want to as long as the aircraft remains (performs) >within it's category limitations and meets the intention of the AW Cert. >Just my two cents > >Jim D. > >Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:37 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel Update? From: "Craig Berland" Aerotronics out of Billings Montana has something very similar to your current discussions. May be worth contacting them. http://www.aerotronics.com/ Craig Berland >Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring as at least a paper designer. > >Would there be much interest in the above? I'm most likely going to do >the Honeywell type lights, which are LED based and has been what is >driving my desire for the above. > >Alan Alan, If I may be of assistance in helping configure I/O, designing with DO-160 friendly techniques, helping with packaging, I'd be pleased to help. Bob . . ., ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: GNS480 installation manual From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I found it on Garmins site. http://www.garmin.com/manuals/CNX80IntegratedAvionicsSystem_Installation Manual.pdf Mike _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 12:23 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: GNS480 installation manual Does anyone have a .PDF version of the GNS480 installation manual? I've tried the Garmin site without success.... And there doesn't seem To be anything in the archives.... Fred Stucklen RV-7A N924RV (Reserved) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:16:49 PM PST US From: "John Danielson" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion One of the main weights for LSA is that Maximum gross takeoff weight be 1332lbs (I could be wrong). This weight is listed for certified aircraft on the airworthiness certificate. John L. Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PWilson Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion It is my understanding that there is no need to change the cert or to try to convert to LSA from exp. As long as the LSA criteria is met then the plane can be flown by a sport pilot. The main things are take off weight, speed, etc. Gross weight does not enter in to the criteria and is note even listed as criteria. Lots of misinformation on the net but the last FAA reading from Washington validates the above. The biggest error non FAA people make is equating gross weight to max take off weight which is definitely incorrect. Correct about an exp you can do the work but need a qualified person for the annuals. Paul ============== At 12:17 AM 12/13/2006, you wrote: Case in point as to what Dan Lloyd said, after selling my -6 and starting my -7a I bought a Teenie 2 to stay in the air. After the recnet rule changes the Teenie 2 now falls under the LSA rules but, only IF you are the builder, I'm not. Because I am not the orginal builder, it is, and will always be registered as an "Eperimental", and because I do not hold a Repairmans Cert. for it, must always have the annual done by an A&P. >From what I have found out in this cases anyway, I can not convert it to a LSA (if I wanted to) unless I build a new ship (look Horton, no holes) and register it under the LSA rules. As with any "Experimental" I can add modify, upgrade, repair, etc. nearly anything I want to as long as the aircraft remains (performs) within it's category limitations and meets the intention of the AW Cert. Just my two cents Jim D. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:30 PM PST US From: Speedy11@aol.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Wire label-making machines But, Michele, you're using the Rhino 5000. The 3000, which Bill B. mentioned only uses 1/4" as the smallest heat shrink. The 5000 can use smaller heat shrink. Did you test the 1/4" shrink on the 22 GA wire? Stan Sutterfield Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: New Topic! Wire label-making machines Affirmative - it does grip 22 with the smallest heat shrink tube they have. I've done it. Michele RV8 - Finishing ---------------------- They apparently sell some rather pricey heat shrink for it. 1/2, 3/8 and 1/4 inch flat widths. Is any of that going to grip a 22ga wire very well? I'm interested in this technology, but want to know more before I buy any new toys. -Bill B On 12/9/06, sarg314 wrote: > > This outfit has the rhinopro 3000 for $65. Says it prints on heat shrink. > > >http://www.provantage.com/dymo-15605~7DYMO02H.htm ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:59 PM PST US From: "Richard Girard" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion >From FAR 1.1 *Light-sport aircraft* means an aircraft, other than a helicopter or powered-lift that, since its original certification, has continued to meet the following: (1) A maximum takeoff weight of not more than=97 (i) 660 pounds (300 kilograms) for lighter-than-air aircraft; (ii) 1,320 pounds (600 kilograms) for aircraft not intended for operation o n water; or (iii) 1,430 pounds (650 kilograms) for an aircraft intended for operation o n water. (2) A maximum airspeed in level flight with maximum continuous power (VH) o f not more than 120 knots CAS under standard atmospheric conditions at sea level. (3) A maximum never-exceed speed (VNE) of not more than 120 knots CAS for a glider. (4) A maximum stalling speed or minimum steady flight speed without the use of lift-enhancing devices (VS1) of not more than 45 knots CAS at the aircraft's maximum certificated takeoff weight and most critical center of gravity. (5) A maximum seating capacity of no more than two persons, including the pilot. (6) A single, reciprocating engine, if powered. (7) A fixed or ground-adjustable propeller if a powered aircraft other than a powered glider. (8) A fixed or autofeathering propeller system if a powered glider. (9) A fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering, two-blade rotor system, if a gyroplane. (10) A nonpressurized cabin, if equipped with a cabin. (11) Fixed landing gear, except for an aircraft intended for operation on water or a glider. (12) Fixed or repositionable landing gear, or a hull, for an aircraft intended for operation on water. (13) Fixed or retractable landing gear for a glider. Rick On 12/14/06, John Danielson wrote: > > One of the main weights for LSA is that Maximum gross takeoff weight be > 1332lbs (I could be wrong). This weight is listed for certified aircraft on > the airworthiness certificate. > > > John L. Danielson > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *PWilson > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:45 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion > > > It is my understanding that there is no need to change the cert or to try > to convert to LSA from exp. As long as the LSA criteria is met then the > plane can be flown by a sport pilot. The main things are take off weight, > speed, etc. Gross weight does not enter in to the criteria and is note ev en > listed as criteria. > Lots of misinformation on the net but the last FAA reading from Washingto n > validates the above. The biggest error non FAA people make is equating gr oss > weight to max take off weight which is definitely incorrect. > Correct about an exp you can do the work but need a qualified person for > the annuals. > Paul > ============== > At 12:17 AM 12/13/2006, you wrote: > > Case in point as to what Dan Lloyd said, after selling my -6 and startin g > my -7a I bought a Teenie 2 to stay in the air. After the recnet rule > changes the Teenie 2 now falls under the LSA rules but, only IF you are t he > builder, I'm not. Because I am not the orginal builder, it is, and will > always be registered as an "Eperimental", and because I do not hold a > Repairmans Cert. for it, must always have the annual done by an A&P. > >From what I have found out in this cases anyway, I can not convert it to > a LSA (if I wanted to) unless I build a new ship (look Horton, no holes) and > register it under the LSA rules. > As with any "Experimental" I can add modify, upgrade, repair, etc. nearly > anything I want to as long as the aircraft remains (performs) within it's > category limitations and meets the intention of the AW Cert. > Just my two cents > > Jim D. > > Do Not Archive > > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *www.aeroelectric.com* > > *www.buildersbooks.com* > > *www.kitlog.com* > > *www.homebuilthelp.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== om ildersbooks.com p.com com/contribution =========== /www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List =========== > > * > > -- Rick Girard "Ya'll drop on in" takes on a whole new meaning when you live at the airport. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:03 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Experimental conversion Well it isn't an electric issue, but I believe you are confused with the type certificated aircraft that qualify for LSA, such as an early Ercoupe. For them, certified gross wt is the limit, not takeoff wt. Later models have higher gross and don't qualify. PWilson wrote: > It is my understanding that there is no need to change the cert or to > try to convert to LSA from exp. As long as the LSA criteria is met > then the plane can be flown by a sport pilot. The main things are take > off weight, speed, etc. Gross weight does not enter in to the criteria > and is note even listed as criteria. > Lots of misinformation on the net but the last FAA reading from > Washington validates the above. The biggest error non FAA people make > is equating gross weight to max take off weight which is definitely > incorrect. > Correct about an exp you can do the work but need a qualified person > for the annuals. > Paul > ============== > At 12:17 AM 12/13/2006, you wrote: >> Case in point as to what Dan Lloyd said, after selling my -6 and >> starting my -7a I bought a Teenie 2 to stay in the air. After the >> recnet rule changes the Teenie 2 now falls under the LSA rules but, >> only IF you are the builder, I'm not. Because I am not the orginal >> builder, it is, and will always be registered as an "Eperimental", >> and because I do not hold a Repairmans Cert. for it, must always have >> the annual done by an A&P. >> From what I have found out in this cases anyway, I can not convert it >> to a LSA (if I wanted to) unless I build a new ship (look Horton, no >> holes) and register it under the LSA rules. >> As with any "Experimental" I can add modify, upgrade, repair, etc. >> nearly anything I want to as long as the aircraft remains (performs) >> within it's category limitations and meets the intention of the AW >> Cert. >> Just my two cents >> >> Jim D. >> >> Do Not Archive > > * > > > * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.