Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:57 AM - Alan's Annuciator Panel (Todd Heffley)
2. 07:05 AM - Re: Off topic - Battery Corrosion (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:07 AM - Annunciator details (Nathan Ulrich)
4. 08:47 AM - Re: Alan's Annuciator Panel (rtitsworth)
5. 11:17 AM - Fuse Link At Battery (JOHNATHAN MACY)
6. 11:40 AM - Re: Off topic - Battery Corrosion (Deems Herring)
7. 02:35 PM - ANL distance to starter rehash (John Erickson)
8. 03:38 PM - Re: ANL distance to starter rehash (Bob McCallum)
9. 03:43 PM - Re: Fuse Link At Battery (Robert Feldtman)
10. 08:29 PM - Re: ANL distance to starter rehash (John Erickson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Alan's Annuciator Panel |
reat to see some neat innovation realtime.
As for a reasonable cost solution for the display Placard.
I am making Instrument Faces by printing on Velum with a laser printer
at Kinko's.
I use PowerPoint to layout the faces.
Black fields with white letters allows light to show through only letters.
Hot Laminate at kinkos. (thickest Laminate)
Yeilds a HARD flat face, waterproof. Drill right through for
switches. ~$10 per unit.
Todd
--
Todd Heffley
todd _/2/_toddheffley_d0t_com
(817)845-0145
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Off topic - Battery Corrosion |
At 12:28 PM 12/16/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I recently fished out an old MagLite Flashlight. The D-cells in it
>were dead, corroded and had spilled acid throughout most of the
>inside of the flashlight. I managed to get the swollen batteries out
>and cleaned up the threads in the base of the flashlight. But I can't
>figure out an easy way to get the corrosion out of the inside of the
>flashlight barrel.
>
>Is there a acid counteracting fluid that will neutralize/remove the
>corrosion? Any suggestions other than pitching the light?
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
Actually, the active ingredients in flashlight batteries
is more basic than acid (re: alkaline batteries . . . carbon
zinc were also alkaline).
Your chore is to find a solvent for the dried on remnants that
is not also antagonistic to the metal of the flashlight. I often
clean certain kinds of contamination off of parts using a dishwasher
but dish washing powder is exceedingly alkaline and attacks the finish
and base metal of aluminum.
I believe you're going to find that the labor to recover this
flashlight exceeds the value of the flashlight by several times
and after you get the contamination removed, you may have only
increased the damage to the flashlight.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Annunciator details |
Alan et al:
I don't have a schematic of the annunciator panel. I was bad and just did
the layout directly. It's a bunch of identical very simple circuits: low
inputs ground the LEDs directly, high inputs ground them using a transistor.
Then there are a bunch of diodes in the obvious places. I use 1/2 watt 240
ohm resistors with the bar LEDs to give ~30 mA on a 14 V supply voltage,
higher value resistors on the discrete LEDs to balance the light output (to
my eye). It is fed by 14 V directly when the nav lights are turned off, by
the panel dimming rheostat when the nav lights are on. Not perfect, although
these bar LEDs seem to track voltage fairly well, a microprocessor could do
a better job.
I added another photo of some of the annunciator components to
picasaweb.google.com/nathantu although I didn't take any detailed photos of
the assembly. Have to work on that.
I was limited somewhat by two things: (1) My Bonanza is a certified
aircraft, so putting a bunch of discrete components and lights in a box was
deemed acceptable by my IA, whereas programming a microprocessor, even a
little PIC, would require a 337 at the very least. (2) I'm a mechanical
engineer, not a EE ;).
My packaging constraints were very tight, and I had some unique needs, so my
mechanical design isn't appropriate for broader uses. Given that my business
is product development (though not in the aircraft world ;) I've thought
quite a bit about a more general purpose annunciator product. I would
probably do the following:
Build it in a more modular fashion, with replaceable "tiles" of reverse
engraved material that is also colored (green, red, or yellow) depending on
the warning. That would allow the use of clusters of surface mount white
LEDs instead of colored bar LEDs. Probably makes sense to have modules of 4
or 8 tiles which can be clipped together. Whether there is one processor per
module or master and slave modules is a question for you EE types.
Of course, if you make it too modular, then you are approaching the Korry
type discrete annunciator light/buttons for certified aircraft (~$400 each
last I checked, though).
I'd be glad to give some feedback on the mechanical design issues when you
guys settle on a spec. If there's enough demand, we have good CNC
capabilities and could make up the housings in reasonably sized batches if
it goes that far.
Nathan
Message 4
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| Subject: | Alan's Annuciator Panel |
Do you have a any pictures?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Todd
Heffley
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Alan's Annuciator Panel
reat to see some neat innovation realtime.
As for a reasonable cost solution for the display Placard.
I am making Instrument Faces by printing on Velum with a laser printer
at Kinko's.
I use PowerPoint to layout the faces.
Black fields with white letters allows light to show through only letters.
Hot Laminate at kinkos. (thickest Laminate)
Yeilds a HARD flat face, waterproof. Drill right through for
switches. ~$10 per unit.
Todd
--
Todd Heffley
todd _/2/_toddheffley_d0t_com
(817)845-0145
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuse Link At Battery |
I am building a Glastar that will have and IO-320 with an Aerosance FADEC. The
electrical design is the Z-14 Dual Battery, Dual Alternator, Split Bus. The batteries
will be located behind bulk head "A" which is at the back of the baggage
area. From each battery there will be a 10 Awg wire feeding the main and aux
battery bus respectively. The 10 Awg wires will run from batteries at the back
up to the panel in the front.
Where the 10 Awg wire connects to the battery, I would like to provide some type
of wire short protection. Currently, I am planning on installing a 14 Awg fuse
link. Any thoughts, suggestions or better recommendations?
Thanks,
Johnathan
Message 6
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| Subject: | Off topic - Battery Corrosion |
> Is there a acid counteracting fluid that will neutralize/remove the > cor
rosion? Any suggestions other than pitching the light?> > Charlie Brame> RV
-6A N11CB> > San Antonio
Have you tried the Alumaprep and Alodine used on aircraft parts?
Deems H
N1491R
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Message 7
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| Subject: | ANL distance to starter rehash |
Bob,
I'm working on redoing my panel in my RV-8. I'm installing a Z-13 system and
am working on understanding why things are the way you designed them. I'm
looking at the 6 inch limit you put in between the ANL limiter coming off
the alternator B terminal and the starter. I found this in the archives:
>>
>>
>>All of the Aeroelectric 'Z' diagrams show the ANL current limiter mounted
>>within 6 inches of the starter contactor. I would like to mount mine on
>>the right side of the battery on a RV9. What wire size would you use ? I
>>am using the B&C base with a 60A fuse.
>
>
> The 6" figure for acceptable runs of un-protected wire
> is a rule-of-thumb long practiced in certified aviation.
> Admittedly, it's most often applied to small wires . . .
> the kinds that come off the busses to supply varios
> accessories. The alternator b-lead is a major distribution
> feeder and is one of the biggest wires in the airplane.
> Major feeders are not generally "protected". This practice
> is supported by decades of service history and failure
> data.
>
> The goal is to put any form of circuit protection for
> a wire as close as practical to the source of the energy
> that will burn the wire. Likelihood that departures
> from the 6" 'rule' is going to cause you grief in the
> future is exceedingly small. My personal choice for
> all fat wires in closely located battery/bus/alternator
> installations is 4AWG.
>
> Bob . . .
My question is why the six inch rule would apply here. Isn't the ANL
protecting the wire going from the alternator to the starter?
Thanks much,
John
N94DW
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: ANL distance to starter rehash |
Yes. And the power source it's being protected from is the battery.
Hence the ANL is close to the starter contactor, which is where the
battery supply is coming from.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: John Erickson
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL distance to starter rehash
Bob,
I'm working on redoing my panel in my RV-8. I'm installing a Z-13
system and am working on understanding why things are the way you
designed them. I'm looking at the 6 inch limit you put in between the
ANL limiter coming off the alternator B terminal and the starter. I
found this in the archives:
>> >> >>All of the Aeroelectric 'Z' diagrams show the ANL current
limiter mounted >>within 6 inches of the starter contactor. I would like
to mount mine on >>the right side of the battery on a RV9. What wire
size would you use ? I >>am using the B&C base with a 60A fuse.> > >
The 6" figure for acceptable runs of un-protected wire> is a
rule-of-thumb long practiced in certified aviation.> Admittedly, it's
most often applied to small wires . . .> the kinds that come off the
busses to supply varios> accessories. The alternator b-lead is a major
distribution> feeder and is one of the biggest wires in the airplane.>
Major feeders are not generally "protected". This practice> is
supported by decades of service history and failure> data.> > The
goal is to put any form of circuit protection for> a wire as close as
practical to the source of the energy> that will burn the wire.
Likelihood that departures> from the 6" 'rule' is going to cause you
grief in the> future is exceedingly small. My personal choice for>
all fat wires in closely located battery/bus/alternator> installations
is 4AWG.> > Bob . . .
My question is why the six inch rule would apply here. Isn't the ANL
protecting the wire going from the alternator to the starter?
Thanks much,
John
N94DW
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse Link At Battery |
On Sunday 17 December 2006 13:14, JOHNATHAN MACY wrote:
Iid suggest 4 AWG welding cables. I have a glastar and it needs minimal
voltage drop. I have a LOM engine and even with that having good cranking
voltage. 10 AWG is not big enouf I'd say
bobf
N125GS
> I am building a Glastar that will have and IO-320 with an Aerosance FADEC.
> The electrical design is the Z-14 Dual Battery, Dual Alternator, Split Bus.
> The batteries will be located behind bulk head "A" which is at the back of
> the baggage area. From each battery there will be a 10 Awg wire feeding the
> main and aux battery bus respectively. The 10 Awg wires will run from
> batteries at the back up to the panel in the front.
>
> Where the 10 Awg wire connects to the battery, I would like to provide some
> type of wire short protection. Currently, I am planning on installing a 14
> Awg fuse link. Any thoughts, suggestions or better recommendations?
>
> Thanks,
> Johnathan
Message 10
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| Subject: | ANL distance to starter rehash |
Thanks Bob (although a different one than I expected. -)) It makes sense
now.
John
_____
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
McCallum
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: ANL distance to starter rehash
Yes. And the power source it's being protected from is the battery. Hence
the ANL is close to the starter contactor, which is where the battery supply
is coming from.
Bob McC
----- Original Message -----
From: John Erickson <mailto:john.erickson@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: ANL distance to starter rehash
Bob,
I'm working on redoing my panel in my RV-8. I'm installing a Z-13 system and
am working on understanding why things are the way you designed them. I'm
looking at the 6 inch limit you put in between the ANL limiter coming off
the alternator B terminal and the starter. I found this in the archives:
>>
>>
>>All of the Aeroelectric 'Z' diagrams show the ANL current limiter mounted
>>within 6 inches of the starter contactor. I would like to mount mine on
>>the right side of the battery on a RV9. What wire size would you use ? I
>>am using the B&C base with a 60A fuse.
>
>
> The 6" figure for acceptable runs of un-protected wire
> is a rule-of-thumb long practiced in certified aviation.
> Admittedly, it's most often applied to small wires . . .
> the kinds that come off the busses to supply varios
> accessories. The alternator b-lead is a major distribution
> feeder and is one of the biggest wires in the airplane.
> Major feeders are not generally "protected". This practice
> is supported by decades of service history and failure
> data.
>
> The goal is to put any form of circuit protection for
> a wire as close as practical to the source of the energy
> that will burn the wire. Likelihood that departures
> from the 6" 'rule' is going to cause you grief in the
> future is exceedingly small. My personal choice for
> all fat wires in closely located battery/bus/alternator
> installations is 4AWG.
>
> Bob . . .
My question is why the six inch rule would apply here. Isn't the ANL
protecting the wire going from the alternator to the starter?
Thanks much,
John
N94DW
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