Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:41 AM - Re: Fuse Link At Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: Fuse Link At Battery (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 07:41 AM - Re:battery corrosion ()
4. 07:55 AM - Re: (flashight) battery corrosion ()
5. 09:32 AM - Z-11 (Tom Murphy)
6. 11:32 AM - Re: Z-11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 11:49 AM - Re: Z-11 (Glaeser, Dennis A)
8. 01:18 PM - Re: Re: Z-11 (JOHN TIPTON)
9. 02:46 PM - (bob noffs)
10. 02:54 PM - Re: Z-11 (Todd Richmond)
11. 03:43 PM - Re: Re: Z-11 (glaesers)
12. 03:46 PM - Bench testing radios (glaesers)
13. 04:00 PM - (no subject) - servo connections (glaesers)
14. 04:48 PM - A Different Christmas Poem (Ralph Hoover)
15. 05:24 PM - Re: (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 05:34 PM - Re: Z-11 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 05:45 PM - Re: Wire for trim servos (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
18. 05:45 PM - Re: (Don Vs)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse Link At Battery |
At 02:14 PM 12/17/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>I am building a Glastar that will have and IO-320 with an Aerosance FADEC.
>The electrical design is the Z-14 Dual Battery, Dual Alternator, Split
>Bus. The batteries will be located behind bulk head "A" which is at the
>back of the baggage area. From each battery there will be a 10 Awg wire
>feeding the main and aux battery bus respectively. The 10 Awg wires will
>run from batteries at the back up to the panel in the front.
>
>Where the 10 Awg wire connects to the battery, I would like to provide
>some type of wire short protection. Currently, I am planning on installing
>a 14 Awg fuse link. Any thoughts, suggestions or better recommendations?
This is generally not done in the TC aircraft world. BATTERY
busses are located at the battery and the relatively short lead
between contactor and bus does not call for protection.
The general rule of thumb for always-hot wires in the airframe
is that they be breakers of 5A or less . . . this would apply
to your too-long bus feeder as well. Note the (*) on the wires
between battery contactor and battery bus on all diagrams. This
indicates that this wire's length should be minimized as much
as practical.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse Link At Battery |
At 05:53 PM 12/17/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>
>On Sunday 17 December 2006 13:14, JOHNATHAN MACY wrote:
>
>Iid suggest 4 AWG welding cables. I have a glastar and it needs minimal
>voltage drop. I have a LOM engine and even with that having good cranking
>voltage. 10 AWG is not big enouf I'd say
10AWG would be plenty big enough for a battery bus feeder.
Battery busses drive only those devices that need to be operable
when the battery master and alternator switches are OFF. This
includes things like hobbs meter, clocks, courtesy lights, electrically
dependent engine accessories, etc. It's doubtful that such loads would
total more than 10A and 10AWG is fine.
As cited in the earlier post, the battery bus feeder is always hot
and it's length should be minimized. This places the battery bus
AT the battery location and further suggests that all feeders from
the bus be breakered at 5A or less (fused at 7A or less). If something
really needs to be protected at higher levels (like a ECFI pump) then
that accessory should be fitted with a "mini contactor" at the bus, not
unlike the fat feeder to an e-bus illustrated in figure Z-32 of
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
Bob . . .
Message 3
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| Subject: | re:battery corrosion |
Message 4
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| Subject: | re: (flashight) battery corrosion |
There are two things in my shop that drive me crazy:
1) Any drill index that is missing drill bits.
Sometimes it is cheaper to just buy another drill index to replace the missing
drill bit(s), but then of couse you end up with ANOTHER drilll index missing
bits...
2) Any flashlights in non-working condition.
Flashlights make great storage containers for dead batteries. Usually just replacing
the batteries resolves that issue. But sometimes the batteries leak that
white powdery crud.
I have found that a good dose of ACF-50 Anti-Corrosion spray into a stubborn flashlight
takes care of that. Sometimes you have to let it soak in for a while.
Also, while taking apart a Mag-Light, I discovered that Mag-Lights have a spare
bulb in the end cap!
Hope this helps!
Message 5
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I'm a new builder considering the Z-11 system. Appears the Endurance Bus
is powered from two sources, the Main Power Distribution Bus through the
diode and or the Main Battery Bus through the Endurance Bus Alternate
Feed switch. Why ? Is the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch on for
normal flight operations ? Tom
Message 6
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At 11:31 AM 12/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm a new builder considering the Z-11 system. Appears the Endurance Bus
>is powered from two sources, the Main Power Distribution Bus through the
>diode and or the Main Battery Bus through the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed
>switch. Why ? Is the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch on for normal
>flight operations ? Tom
This is covered in the List archives, chapter 17 of the 'Connection,
and various resources on http://aeroelectric.com
Put "endurance bus" in the search box and hit "Google Search"
The goal is to have two, independent sources of power for electro-whizzies
that are useful for comfortable continuation of flight in battery-only
operations . . . with endurance that meets your personal design goals
for this mode of operation.
The alternate feed switch and pathway should be pre-flight tested but left
OFF for normal operations.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 7
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Tom,
No, the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch is meant for 'battery only'
(alternator failed) operations. The reasons for this approach are:
- eliminates the battery contactor (saves the energy it would
otherwise draw)
- configures your electrical system for battery-only operation
with the flip of 2 switches:
- E-Bus Alternate feed ON
- Master switch OFF
- redundant feed for essential stuff if the battery contactor
fails
The E-Bus should have only the essential items for continued flight
(typically EFIS, radios, panel lights - if you fly at night. The goal
is to have enough juice in the battery to last as long as your fuel
(fairly easy to do unless you have an electrically dependent engine).
When you arrive at your destination, if you want stuff that is not on
the E-Bus (i.e. flaps, landing light, ...) you can turn the master back
on for the last few minutes of flight.
Dennis Glaeser
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: Tom Murphy (tmurphy@greenhills.net)
I'm a new builder considering the Z-11 system. Appears the Endurance Bus
is powered from two sources, the Main Power Distribution Bus through the
diode and or the Main Battery Bus through the Endurance Bus Alternate
Feed switch. Why ? Is the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch on for
normal flight operations ? Tom
Message 8
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...) you can turn the master back
on for the last few minutes of flight.
If the battery is flat - where is the power coming from ?
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Z-11
> <dennis.glaeser@eds.com>
>
> Tom,
>
> No, the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch is meant for 'battery only'
> (alternator failed) operations. The reasons for this approach are:
> - eliminates the battery contactor (saves the energy it would
> otherwise draw)
> - configures your electrical system for battery-only operation
> with the flip of 2 switches:
> - E-Bus Alternate feed ON
> - Master switch OFF
> - redundant feed for essential stuff if the battery contactor
> fails
>
> The E-Bus should have only the essential items for continued flight
> (typically EFIS, radios, panel lights - if you fly at night. The goal
> is to have enough juice in the battery to last as long as your fuel
> (fairly easy to do unless you have an electrically dependent engine).
> When you arrive at your destination, if you want stuff that is not on
> the E-Bus (i.e. flaps, landing light, ...) you can turn the master back
> on for the last few minutes of flight.
>
> Dennis Glaeser
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> From: Tom Murphy (tmurphy@greenhills.net)
> Date: Mon Dec 18 - 9:32 AM
>
> I'm a new builder considering the Z-11 system. Appears the Endurance Bus
>
> is powered from two sources, the Main Power Distribution Bus through the
>
> diode and or the Main Battery Bus through the Endurance Bus Alternate
> Feed switch. Why ? Is the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch on for
> normal flight operations ? Tom
>
>
>
Message 9
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hi all,
what are builders doing to connect a trim servo to the cockpit? ''ray
allen'' servo takes 5 wires . the company can supply a 5 wire cable.
wires are each 26 ga. is that the way to go or is there a better way? 26
ga . seems pretty flimsy.
any input appreciated.
bob noffs
Message 10
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Bob,
I've tried to figure this out, but what is the downside of running with the
essential bus closed? The reason I ask is this, if I need to use the e-bus
there is a risk that I could open the battery master before closing the
e-bus (i.e. panic and hit the switches in the wrong order). With a glass
panel this would temporarily interrupt all power and require a re-boot.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Todd R Richmond
RV-7A Fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Z-11
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 11:31 AM 12/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>I'm a new builder considering the Z-11 system. Appears the Endurance Bus
>is powered from two sources, the Main Power Distribution Bus through the
>diode and or the Main Battery Bus through the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed
>switch. Why ? Is the Endurance Bus Alternate Feed switch on for normal
>flight operations ? Tom
This is covered in the List archives, chapter 17 of the 'Connection,
and various resources on http://aeroelectric.com
Put "endurance bus" in the search box and hit "Google Search"
The goal is to have two, independent sources of power for
electro-whizzies
that are useful for comfortable continuation of flight in battery-only
operations . . . with endurance that meets your personal design goals
for this mode of operation.
The alternate feed switch and pathway should be pre-flight tested but
left
OFF for normal operations.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 11
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If you get immediate notification of alternator failure, and then minimize
power use with the E-Bus architecture hopefully your battery won't be dead
when you get to your destination. At least that's the plan...
Dennis
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Subject: Re: Re: Z-11
From: JOHN TIPTON (jmtipton@btopenworld.com)
...) you can turn the master back
on for the last few minutes of flight.
If the battery is flat - where is the power coming from ?
John
Message 12
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| Subject: | Bench testing radios |
I'm putting my panel together in the warm basement, since the garage is cold
here in Michigan. Soon I'll be at the point where I could power things up.
My questions is regarding antennas. I don't have any need or desire to
transmit, so as long as I don't ever hit a PTT button, is it OK to power up
an SL30 and GNC300XL with no COMM antennas connected - or NAV antenna on the
SL30? I have the antennas if it would be better to connect them.
Thanks,
Dennis Glaeser
RV7A
Message 13
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| Subject: | (no subject) - servo connections |
I'm in the process of wiring my servos - using the Ray Allen servo wire.
I've test run the elevator trim servo through that wire running the length
of my RV7A fuselage with no problems. I can't tell the difference in speed
or sound when running the servos through 15 feet of wire or connected
directly to the battery. The individual wires are pretty thin, but I've
been able to crimp on D-Sub conectors with no problem, and the 5 wire cable
is plenty strong. It is very nice to not have to run individual wires.
Dennis Glaeser
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
From: bob noffs (icubob@newnorth.net)
hi all,
what are builders doing to connect a trim servo to the cockpit? ''ray
allen'' servo takes 5 wires . the company can supply a 5 wire cable.
wires are each 26 ga. is that the way to go or is there a better way? 26
ga . seems pretty flimsy.
any input appreciated.
bob noffs
Message 14
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| Subject: | A Different Christmas Poem |
A Different Christmas Poem
The embers glowed softly, and in their dim light,
I gazed round the room and I cherished the sight.
My wife was asleep, her head on my chest,
My daughter beside me, angelic in rest.
Outside the snow fell, a blanket of white,
Transforming the yard to a winter delight.
The sparkling lights in the tree I believe,
Completed the magic that was Christmas Eve.
My eyelids were heavy, my breathing was deep,
Secure and surrounded by love I would sleep.
In perfect contentment, or so it would seem,
So I slumbered, perhaps I started to dream.
The sound wasn't loud, and it wasn't too near,
But I opened my eyes when it tickled my ear.
Perhaps just a cough, I didn't quite know, Then the
sure sound of footsteps outside in the snow.
My soul gave a tremble, I struggled to hear,
And I crept to the door just to see who was near.
Standing out in the cold and the dark of the night,
A lone figure stood, his face weary and tight.
A soldier, I puzzled, some twenty years old,
Perhaps a Marine, huddled here in the cold.
Alone in the dark, he looked up and smiled,
Standing watch over me, and my wife and my child.
"What are you doing?" I asked without fear,
"Come in this moment, it's freezing out here!
Put down your pack, brush the snow from your sleeve,
You should be at home on a cold Christmas Eve!"
For barely a moment I saw his eyes shift,
Away from the cold and the snow blown in drifts..
To the window that danced with a warm fire's light
Then he sighed and he said "Its really all right,
I'm out here by choice. I'm here every night." "It's my duty to stand at
the front of the line,
That separates you from the darkest of times.
No one had to ask or beg or implore me,
I'm proud to stand here like my fathers before me.
My Gramps died at 'Pearl on a day in December,"
Then he sighed, "That's a Christmas 'Gram always remembers."
My dad stood his watch in the jungles of 'Nam',
And now it is my turn and so, here I am.
I've not seen my own son in more than a while,
But my wife sends me pictures, he's sure got her smile.
Then he bent and he carefully pulled from his bag,
The red, white, and blue... an American flag.
I can live through the cold and the being alone,
Away from my family, my house and my home.
I can stand at my post through the rain and the sleet,
I can sleep in a foxhole with little to eat.
I can carry the weight of killing another,
Or lay down my life with my sister and brother..
Who stand at the front against any and all,
To ensure for all time that this flag will not fall."
"So go back inside," he said, "harbor no fright,
Your family is waiting and I'll be all right."
"But isn't there something I can do, at the least,
"Give you money," I asked, "or prepare you a feast?
It seems all too little for all that you've done,
For being away from your wife and your son."
Then his eye welled a tear that held no regret,
"Just tell us you love us, and never forget.
To fight for our rights back at home while we're gone,
To stand your own watch, no matter how long.
For when we come home, either standing or dead,
To know you remember we fought and we bled.
Is payment enough, and with that we will trust,
That we mattered to you as you mattered to us."
PLEASE, Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many people
as you can? Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our
U.S.service men and women for our being able to celebrate these
festivities. Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we
owe. Make people stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who
sacrificed themselves for us.
LCDR Jeff Giles, SC, USN
30th Naval Construc tion Regiment
OIC, Logistics Cell One
Al Taqqadum , Iraq.
Message 15
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At 04:45 PM 12/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>hi all,
> what are builders doing to connect a trim servo to the cockpit? ''ray
> allen'' servo takes 5 wires . the company can supply a 5 wire cable.
> wires are each 26 ga. is that the way to go or is there a better way? 26
> ga . seems pretty flimsy. Any input appreciated.
24AWG wire in the airframe is marginal for serviceability,
26AWG wire sucks. Recommend you transition as soon as practical
to 22AWG by means of a connector . . . here's one way to do it.
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 16
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At 03:53 PM 12/18/2006 -0700, you wrote:
><trichmond@obermeyer.com>
>
>Bob,
>
>I've tried to figure this out, but what is the downside of running with the
>essential bus closed? The reason I ask is this, if I need to use the e-bus
>there is a risk that I could open the battery master before closing the
>e-bus (i.e. panic and hit the switches in the wrong order). With a glass
>panel this would temporarily interrupt all power and require a re-boot.
>Thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
It doesn't hurt to run with it closed . . . but if one is subject
to panic driven actions, then there is no magic pre-positioning
of switches that will absolutely guarantee that don't do something that
you'll later wish had been different.
If you have active notification of alternator failure (low voltage
warning light) then from the time your alternator quits (followed in
seconds by low volts warning) to the time you begin to do something about
it is not critical. Whether you take a minute or more to re-configure for
battery only ops . . . or get 'er done in 2.3 seconds flat will have no
appreciable difference in the outcome of the flight.
In other words, it's an endurance bus, not an emergency bus. We're
designing systems that are failure tolerant and have very low orders
of probability of causing a bad day in the cockpit. So when the warning
light flashes, fold the chart and finish the mouth-full of peanuts and
Pepsi before you start flipping switches. The point is that we tend to
worry (and even react badly) to situations not well understood. Know that
an alternator failure need not be a big deal if you've done your homework
for battery sizing, battery maintenance, and e-bus load sizing.
Bob . . .
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wire for trim servos |
Hi Bob-
This stuff comes in pretty handy:
http://steinair.com/wire.htm
Scroll down to "Servo wire". Five 22ga for MAC trim and two 20ga for tail
light/whatever (and just whut the doktur ordered for TruTrak servos). Take them
wimpy wires from the MAC servo, strip back twice what you need for a butt
splice, double it over and crimp. I also add a short skinny piece of heat shrink
to the insulation to make sure the PIDG butt splice grabs aholt of the
insulation...
Here's a suggestion from Bob Nuckolls at aeroelectric.com:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
and others have crimped d-sub pins with shrink tube over each connection
(female to harness, male to servo at staggered lengths to avoid "snake swallowed
a
pig" syndrome) to the wires to make the connection as well.
Mark
Message 18
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Bob,
For the RV elevator that plug will not fit through the provided hole. Some
of us are using d sub pin sockets as the connector and heat shrinking them.
I thought I saw that on your site. this method makes it possible to remove
the elevator. Don
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List:
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 04:45 PM 12/18/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>hi all,
> what are builders doing to connect a trim servo to the cockpit? ''ray
> allen'' servo takes 5 wires . the company can supply a 5 wire cable.
> wires are each 26 ga. is that the way to go or is there a better way? 26
> ga . seems pretty flimsy. Any input appreciated.
24AWG wire in the airframe is marginal for serviceability,
26AWG wire sucks. Recommend you transition as soon as practical
to 22AWG by means of a connector . . . here's one way to do it.
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/macservo/macservo.html
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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