Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:18 AM - (bob noffs)
2. 06:49 AM - A new year of loving the plane (Dave)
3. 06:56 AM - Latest figure Z16 ? (Gilles Thesee)
4. 10:10 AM - Thanks to this Group (Dennis Johnson)
5. 10:40 AM - Re: (Charlie England)
6. 11:12 AM - WX500 intstall manual request (Len Loudis)
7. 03:10 PM - Re: What Are The Odds? (Sally Kilishek)
8. 04:26 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/06 (Ron Cox)
9. 04:44 PM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/30/06 (Ron Cox)
10. 06:03 PM - Re: Thanks to this Group (Jim Jewell)
11. 06:14 PM - 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions (lwhitlow)
12. 06:42 PM - Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions (Gilles Thesee)
13. 07:26 PM - Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions (Dick Fisher)
14. 10:07 PM - Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions (lwhitlow)
15. 11:10 PM - Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions (jetboy)
Message 1
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hi all,
what switch has been satisfactory for a push to talk mounted in the
end of the stick? any suggestions appreciated. thanks in advance, bob
noffs
Message 2
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| Subject: | A new year of loving the plane |
The vitriol and barbed words that are so common on our list remind me
that civil wars and fights between siblings are the meanest, because
the parties are so basically similar. Their parsing of, and the
reaction to small inflexions or subtle teases are often all out of
proportion to the dig.
In the AeroElectric List, we are a subset of a maligned clan. Don't
we realize that airplanes are dangerous, small planes are really
dangerous -- and a superfluous indulgence, and home-made small planes
are a nearly suicidal irresponsible indulgence that endangers
ourselves and everyone around us? And then you're going to put
together the whole electrical system of this "toy" yourself?!
As words fly by the two-way rifle range of cyber-conversation,
remember that our countries' majorities would legislate and stamp us
out of existence in a heartbeat if they could. Happy new year wishes
to a very small, adventurous, smart, international, and maybe
hyper-aware group of lovers of the homemade airplane.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Latest figure Z16 ? |
Hi Bob and all,
In the latest revision J of appendix Z, the Rotax figure Z16 Revision L
(6-22-06) displays a new OV connection principle.
In my opinion this newer version is an improvement, as the Rotax-Ducati
regulator goes wild when the sense "C" wire is disconnected.
Here are my questions :
- Is there any chance to see this latest version appear in the .dwg
drawings ? (I would like to use this newer version for some buddies'
wiring diagram)
- Is there any risk of over voltage if the pilot happens to open or
close the master switch in flight ?
Thanks in advance,
Best wishes for the New Year,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 4
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| Subject: | Thanks to this Group |
Hello to Bob and all the others,
I'm getting close to first flight and just want to take a moment to
thank Bob and all the others on this group who have taught me so much
about aviation electronics. I embarked on this great adventure in large
part because of curiosity and a desire to learn new things. I have been
rewarded by this group beyond my hopes. I enjoy this list because it
teaches me the principles underlying the simple answers.
I have had a lifetime curiosity about electronics but circumstances have
always kept me from pursuing it. Bob's Connection book is a treasure of
knowledge. There are too many examples to name, but his discussion in
the book about how to make an expanded scale voltmeter, instead of 0 -
14 volts, taught me more about electronics than I had learned in a
lifetime of casual reading. I'll probably never make one, but it's no
longer a mystery. I find that very satisfying.
Others on the list have generously and patiently taught me about LEDs
and how to include them in my instrument panel. Instead of a mysterious
source of light, I now have a basic understanding of how they work and
how they can be adapted to meet my needs. I even learned enough to
teach a friend!
This list is remarkable. So many people so generously helping others is
surly an example of the best that people can be. Sure, there's an
occasional thorn among the roses, but that's just life. Take the good,
ignore the bad.
Thanks so much,
Dennis Johnson
Legacy #257, first flight in February?
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: ectric-List: |
bob noffs wrote:
> hi all,
> what switch has been satisfactory for a push to talk mounted in the
> end of the stick? any suggestions appreciated. thanks in advance, bob
> noffs
Bob,
Almost any normally open (NO) momentary push button that will mount in
your stick will work fine. The RV-4 I'm flying has around 1,000 hrs on
it & I'm pretty sure the PTT in the stick came from Radio Shack or a
similar supplier. Just find one that fits & has an actuation pressure
you are comfortable with.
If you have a 'real' electronics supply house in your area, tell them
you need a normally open, momentary, single pole push button switch that
mounts in a x/y" diameter hole & that will fit within your stick's
internal diameter. (x/y is the fractional diameter of your mounting
hole.) If you go to RS, they have switches that have as small as 1/4"
bushing diameters. The button is obviously small, but actuation pressure
is low so you don't need a big button. If you fly a plane with light
controls, you don't want switch pressure to be so high that you will be
affecting pitch/roll when you transmit. :-)
Charlie
Charlie
Message 6
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| Subject: | WX500 intstall manual request |
Folks,
If a soul out there had a .PDF copy of WX500 intall manual you could email over
to me it would sure complete my holiday season... and get you a great lunch at
BJC next time you are through Denver!
Thanks,
Len
__________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: What Are The Odds? |
Bob:
Thanks for your help.
You're right. The field supply breaker isn't
tripping, so the OVM-14 apparently isn't getting
involved.
I ran the two tests you suggested: (OAT was 46
degrees, if that means anything).
The voltage between the A/S terminals and the
regulator case varied between 14.7 and 14.9 volts
while the buss voltage moved between 14.7 and 15.2
volts.
Then I installed the test regulator on the back of the
alternator per the picture you posted. The darn
system ran perfectly! Bus voltage stayed very steady
between 14.5 and 14.7 volts.
I take this to mean that the regulator and alternator
are fine.
The fact that the regulator in the system seems to be
trying to regulate at 14.8 volts or so seems wrong,
but I've no hypothesis for that.
The fact that the voltage the regulator sees is a few
tenths of a volt higher than the actual bus voltage
probably indicates a problem with the wiring between
the regulator and the alternator breaker. This is
about 6 feet of #18 wire from the regulator to the
alternator switch and about 2 feet of #18 wire from
the switch to the breaker (Faston connectors
throughout).
Do you have any suggestions?
Hope you and yours have a happy New Year holiday, and
that 2007 will bring peace, health, happiness and
prosperity for you.
George
---------------------------------------
Time: 09:24:39 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: What Are The Odds
(snip)
>I can't tell whether the regulator is not regulating
>or is regulating at >15 volts.
Easy. Use a voltmeter to measure between the A/S
terminals
and regulator case. THIS is the point where the
regulator
believes it is seeing bus voltage. You may find
that it
it sitting happily at 14.2 volts while voltage
drops in wiring BETWEEN the A/S terminals and the
BUS
are cause for an artificially raising of regulation
set-point.
Take one of your regulators and install some short
leads
on it as illustrated below. Install right on the
back of
the alternator and see what the bus voltage does
while
the engine is running and you vary loads by turning
things
on and off. These experiments totally bypass all
other
ship's wiring.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Alternator_Test_1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Regulators/Ford_Test_Reg.jpg
I think you'll find that the alternator and
regulator
are fine . . . there's some bug in installation.
Conduct the experiments cited above and report back
the
results. We can begin to divide the
probabilities-list into
manageable partitions.
Bob . .
__________________________________________________
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 12/28/06 |
>From Bob:
Yeah, this group really sucks sometimes!
...
The degree of acceptability is often assigned by perceptions
"greatness" ascribed to individuals who choose to answer.
...
Carlos and Stan, I'm not trying to sell you a bill of goods.
If you find the $time$ spent here on the List to be
of poor investment, may I suggest you spend it elsewhere?
------------------------------
Can't agree with you more, Bob, as usual.
As one who has learned more here and from your book than in any class I ever
took (including whose bitching is worth listening to, and whose isn't), I
marvel at your ability to put up with it all, particularly in view of your
OWN return on $time$ invested.
But I'm damned glad you do, and I gladly recommend both your excellent book,
and participation here, to anyone who wants to learn about light airplane
electrical systems. I DON'T recommend it as a source of answers to
questions made during "strafing runs" for quick answers as some try to use
it.
I personally don't feel that's what it is all about. I suspect most others
here will agree.
My own return on "$time$" invested here has been fantastic. Thanks to you
and the others here who use this place in the spirit in which it is intended
to be used. Mutual Education.
Happy New Year to all.
Ron Cox
Glasair Super II F/T
(now nicely wired, and NOT just a clone of a "Spam Can" system, thanks to
all the help here.)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/30/06 |
Stan, and Carlos
As usually happens, the list has indeed helped you to discovered your
problem! You're here for the wrong reason. You've basically said that
you're here for quick, free, simple answers to complicated questions.
That's not what the list is here for, and it's been so stated for a long
time.
Just like misusing a piece of electric/electronic hardware, you aren't
likely to get the result you want if you don't use it in the way it's
designed to be used.
You're asking the teacher (and other "list" participants) to do your
homework for you. That's of no value to the other participants, and what
you seem to need is a privvate tutor, not a seminar, which is the way a lot
of us see participation in this list.
So, contrary to your "griping", you've gotten exactly what you needed here,
an identification of your problem. Congratulations! Now everyone should be
happy.
No one gets "banned" here for asking questions. The very few who've been
asked to leave (after incredible tolerance by all participants for their
obnoxiousness) because they seem to be here to cause trouble, rather than to
participate in the learning the rest of us are indeed here for. They
certainly weren't learning anything, and neither were the rest of us who had
to wade through their venomous postings.
If you find you've signed up for the wrong class, there's no deadline for
realizing YOUR mistake, and dropping it. You can get all your money back at
the registrar's office, down the hall...
Ron
> Time: 01:05:13 AM PST US
> From: Speedy11@aol.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: The Quest for Any Answer
>
> Carlos,
> As you can see from the response, the List doesn't react well to
> criticism.
> Both of us are likely to be banned from the list for daring to ask a
> question
> or for questioning the "teacher." This is the first "academic" situation
> I've
> encountered in which asking a question or questioning the teacher is
> considered unacceptable.
>
> The "teacher" hasn't caught on to the idea that the "students" aren't
> visiting his "classroom" in order to learn. They are visiting the
> classroom in
> order to get answers to questions regarding the implementation of concepts
> and
> ideas from the textbook. I have yet to find a textbook that adequately
> explains
> its subject. The text always requires explanation and clarification. One
> would hope to get an answer (any answer) rather than a long diatribe
> saying
> nothing.
...
>
> Good Luck in the New Year,
> Stan Sutterfield
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Thanks to this Group |
Dennis,
Thank you for saying that so well.
Happy new year to you and all the list participants.
Jim in Kelowna - flight test authority in hand - first flight soon
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Johnson
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 10:08 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Thanks to this Group
Hello to Bob and all the others,
I'm getting close to first flight and just want to take a moment to
thank Bob and all the others on this group who have taught me so much
about aviation electronics. I embarked on this great adventure in large
part because of curiosity and a desire to learn new things. I have been
rewarded by this group beyond my hopes. I enjoy this list because it
teaches me the principles underlying the simple answers.
I have had a lifetime curiosity about electronics but circumstances
have always kept me from pursuing it. Bob's Connection book is a
treasure of knowledge. There are too many examples to name, but his
discussion in the book about how to make an expanded scale voltmeter,
instead of 0 - 14 volts, taught me more about electronics than I had
learned in a lifetime of casual reading. I'll probably never make one,
but it's no longer a mystery. I find that very satisfying.
Others on the list have generously and patiently taught me about LEDs
and how to include them in my instrument panel. Instead of a mysterious
source of light, I now have a basic understanding of how they work and
how they can be adapted to meet my needs. I even learned enough to
teach a friend!
This list is remarkable. So many people so generously helping others
is surly an example of the best that people can be. Sure, there's an
occasional thorn among the roses, but that's just life. Take the good,
ignore the bad.
Thanks so much,
Dennis Johnson
Legacy #257, first flight in February?
do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions |
Hi all
I have followed the 'Lectric list for a while and I'm at the stage in my build
where I must start considering the electrical system.
If I'm not mistaken the Jab has a 20A alternator with internal regulation
I don't have the book but I have read here about OV and runaway altenator protection.
How have others handled the OV issue with this engine? Could someone point me to
the where in the archives I might look?
Thanks
Larry Whitlow
601XL/Jab 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84741#84741
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions |
Larry,
>
> If I'm not mistaken the Jab has a 20A alternator with internal regulation
>
> I don't have the book but I have read here about OV and runaway altenator protection.
>
>
I believe the 3300 has a permanent magnet alternator with an separate
regulator. Not sure if you can rely on the total 20 A rated output.
You may consider figure Z16 in the latest edition of the Aeroelectric
connection.
Best wishes for 2007,
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
Grenoble, France
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions |
Larry,
Check out the Z-20 figure for the Jab engine electrical
system.
Dick Fisher
sonex76/Jab3300
----- Original Message -----
From: "lwhitlow" <ldwhitlow@comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator
questions
> <ldwhitlow@comcast.net>
>
> Hi all
>
> I have followed the 'Lectric list for a while and I'm at the stage in my
> build where I must start considering the electrical system.
>
> If I'm not mistaken the Jab has a 20A alternator with internal regulation
>
> I don't have the book but I have read here about OV and runaway altenator
> protection.
>
> How have others handled the OV issue with this engine? Could someone point
> me to the where in the archives I might look?
>
> Thanks
>
> Larry Whitlow
> 601XL/Jab 3300
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84741#84741
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions |
OK .. So I was wrong...
Is the Jab Regulator firewall mounted??? I was on the Jab site and all it shows
is the pinout of the connector.
Thanks
Larry Whitlow 601XL/Jab 3300
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84771#84771
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: 601XL/Jab 3300 Build in progress Alternator questions |
Larry,
I have the 2200 which is similar to the 3300 and I recall the max continuous
you will get is 15A - they are only dynamo (PMAs) with a single phase
series switching regulator. However they do seem to do better than the similar
system on the 912 and as you require something like 20 A/hr for the starting
battery there is no need for OV protection.
Download the Jabiru manual it includes wiring diagrams the main requirement is
to connect the batt directly across the regulator (use a short #20 fusible link
if you want to be cautious)
There will be switching noise on the AC and output wiring so its really simpler
to leave that as short as possible and not run them into the cockpit. If you
are mounting the battery remotely for W/B then you may require a capacitor at
the regulator O/P such as 20,000 uF 25 V like the 912 requires. If you dont have
the OEM regulator there are others that claim to do the job better in my case
there have been no adverse issues it just keeps eveything as it should be.
Ralph
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=84775#84775
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