---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 01/03/07: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Latest figure Z16 ? (Gilles Thesee) 2. 03:41 AM - solder (bob noffs) 3. 04:16 AM - Re: Avionics cooler (Gilles Thesee) 4. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (David M.) 5. 06:04 AM - Re: solder (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 06:07 AM - Re: Re: Avionics cooler (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 8. 06:13 AM - Re: solder (William Slaughter) 9. 08:04 AM - smaller crimp-on spade terminals? (Bill Boyd) 10. 08:13 AM - Re: smaller crimp-on spade terminals? () 11. 08:14 AM - filter cap (Bill and Marsha) 12. 08:58 AM - Re: filter cap (Matt Prather) 13. 09:15 AM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (Jerry Grimmonpre) 14. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 15. 09:36 AM - Re: smaller crimp-on spade terminals? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 09:40 AM - Re: filter cap (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 17. 12:11 PM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (David M.) 18. 12:11 PM - Slow turning Vacumn Pump drive. (John Burnaby) 19. 02:55 PM - Re: What Are The Odds - Problem Solved (I think) (Sally Kilishek) 20. 03:24 PM - Re: filter cap (Bill and Marsha) 21. 03:32 PM - Re: filter cap (Gilles Thesee) 22. 04:14 PM - Re: filter cap (Matt Prather) 23. 05:07 PM - Battery AND Starter Contactor? (jdalton77) 24. 05:11 PM - Re: filter cap () 25. 05:47 PM - Re: Battery AND Starter Contactor? (Matt Prather) 26. 08:57 PM - Re: 91.205 (WAAS) () 27. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 28. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: 91.205 (WAAS) (Dan Beadle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:11 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: AeroElectric-List: Latest figure Z16 ? Hi Bob, Hope you won't mind my posting again on the subject : "In the latest revision J of appendix Z, the Rotax figure Z16 Revision L (6-22-06) displays a new OV connection principle. In my opinion this newer version is an improvement, as the Rotax-Ducati regulator goes wild when the sense "C" wire is disconnected. Here are my questions : - Is there any chance to see this latest version appear in the .dwg drawings ? (I would like to use this newer version for some buddies' wiring diagram) - Is there any risk of over voltage if the pilot happens to open or close the master switch in flight ? Thanks in advance, Best wishes for the New Year," Regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:41:39 AM PST US From: "bob noffs" Subject: AeroElectric-List: solder hi all, i understand the advantages of a 63/37 blend of solder . is 60/40 ''almost as good'' or is there some reason that makes is a much poorer choice? it is easily available while 63/37 is quite a bit less frequent on the store shelves. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:45 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics cooler > (Fait-il beaucoup de froid Grenoble?) > > My system is based on the ExpBus, which in case you don't know, is a > premanufactured electric buss system (which, by the way, 'letric Bob > doesn't recommend). > But since my system has a Main Battery buss and an Aux Battery buss, I > will connect it to the Main, therefore it will also be OFF in case of > an electric emergency. Hi Carlos, Winter is not really there in Grenoble, and most ski resorts are still closed due to the lack of snow. Are you located in Portugal ? I've heard about the ExpBus. The Aux Battery bus may play the same role as an E-bus. Best regards, Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:39 AM PST US From: "David M." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) GMRS is not license free. It's $75 for 5 years if you use those frequencies. David M. Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > Very cool info. I wasn't aware of those radios. I ordered a pair as > soon as I saw your posting. Thanks. > Stan Sutterfield > Do not archive > > > GMRS, FRS and a few other handy acronyms are used to describe a > variety > of license free or easy license use of the radio spectrum for > personal communications. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:04 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: solder At 05:38 AM 1/3/2007 -0600, you wrote: >hi all, i understand the advantages of a 63/37 blend of solder . is 60/40 >''almost as good'' or is there some reason that makes is a much poorer >choice? it is easily available while 63/37 is quite a bit less frequent on >the store shelves. 60/40 is an adequate substitute for 63/37 and as you've noted, is much easier to find. It will be just fine for your purposes. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:41 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Avionics cooler At 12:37 AM 1/3/2007 +0000, you wrote: > > >Tom S., James H., Charlie E., Bob N. > >Thanks for your input. I will try to measure the panel back temperature >with all the avionics paraphernalia already working (which will only >happen, very conveniently, in the next summer) and I'll decide accordingly. As a gemeral rule of thumb, you can do your temperature tests at any convenient time and extrapolate for worst case. For example, if your tests at 25C ambient produces a temperature of 45C at some point of interest, the same point measured at 35C ambient would also be 10 degrees higher or 55C. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:13 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" One comment on these radios, take the advertised range and cut it in half at best. Do not archive From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 8:26 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) Very cool info. I wasn't aware of those radios. I ordered a pair as soon as I saw your posting. Thanks. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive GMRS, FRS and a few other handy acronyms are used to describe a variety of license free or easy license use of the radio spectrum for personal communications. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:23 AM PST US From: "William Slaughter" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: solder Yes, it's almost as good, but it does have a small temperature range where it has a plastic state. If you wiggle even slightly as it cools through this range, you'll have a substandard joint. If everthing is up on the bench and solidly held, it wouldn't be a problem. Obviously lots of things get successfully soldered with the 60/40, but I just ordered a one pound spool of 63/37 from Digikey when I couldn't find any locally. Unless I drastically increase my soldering, it'll last me the rest of my life and then some, and it maximizes my chances of each joint being as it should be. William Slaughter RV-8 QB Almost finished enough sheetmetal to be able to run a wire for a change! -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob noffs Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 5:39 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: solder hi all, i understand the advantages of a 63/37 blend of solder . is 60/40 ''almost as good'' or is there some reason that makes is a much poorer choice? it is easily available while 63/37 is quite a bit less frequent on the store shelves. bob noffs ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:16 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: AeroElectric-List: smaller crimp-on spade terminals? I was inspecting my Infinity Aerospace trim & flap relay board last night, pondering how and where I was going to mount it in the plane, and noticed that one row of contacts, for the wire bundle from the joystick, was smaller than a standard terminal block, with narrower spacing - I'm guessing .187 versus .250 - so, is there a crimp-on spade lug for terminating wires on a terminal block this size, or should I just slip the wires in and tighten down? Vendor suggestion? TIA, Bill B. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:57 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: smaller crimp-on spade terminals? Bill, I had a similar problem with a different device. I used ring terminals for #4 screws. They are available from Allied and probably Mouser and Digikey. Hope this helps. Don ---- Bill Boyd wrote: > > I was inspecting my Infinity Aerospace trim & flap relay board last > night, pondering how and where I was going to mount it in the plane, > and noticed that one row of contacts, for the wire bundle from the > joystick, was smaller than a standard terminal block, with narrower > spacing - I'm guessing .187 versus .250 - so, is there a crimp-on > spade lug for terminating wires on a terminal block this size, or > should I just slip the wires in and tighten down? Vendor suggestion? > > TIA, > > Bill B. > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:11 AM PST US From: "Bill and Marsha" Subject: AeroElectric-List: filter cap Can anyone give me a part # and mfgr. for a 22000MFD 25v 105c filter cap? or what ever is better. ( Must have screw terminals.) Thanks Bill S. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap From: "Matt Prather" Screw terminals are generally a pain. But... 338-1252-ND from digikey gets everything you want except the temperature spec - 95C instead of 105C. If you aren't installing it in a certified harsh environment 95C might be fine. Matt- > Can anyone give me a part # and mfgr. for a 22000MFD 25v 105c filter > cap? or what ever is better. ( Must have screw terminals.) > Thanks Bill S. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:30 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) Do Not Archive David ... Who do you pay the fee to and how do they know if you are still transmitting and not paying the fee? Jerry Grimmonpre' ----- Original Message ----- From: David M. To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 6:37 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) GMRS is not license free. It's $75 for 5 years if you use those frequencies. David M. Speedy11@aol.com wrote: Very cool info. I wasn't aware of those radios. I ordered a pair as soon as I saw your posting. Thanks. Stan Sutterfield Do not archive GMRS, FRS and a few other handy acronyms are used to describe a variety of license free or easy license use of the radio spectrum for personal communications. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:52 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) At 08:10 AM 1/3/2007 -0600, you wrote: >One comment on these radios, take the advertised range and cut it in half >at best. Yeah, the itty-bitty hand-helds are victims of way too much marketing hype. I've used them vehicle to vehicle solid out to 1/2 mile and open line-of-sight to about a mile. One pair I had was good to a couple hundred yards vehicle to vehicle. However, for the tasks to which I've applied these radios a range of a few feet has been sufficient. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:07 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: smaller crimp-on spade terminals? At 11:02 AM 1/3/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >I was inspecting my Infinity Aerospace trim & flap relay board last >night, pondering how and where I was going to mount it in the plane, >and noticed that one row of contacts, for the wire bundle from the >joystick, was smaller than a standard terminal block, with narrower >spacing - I'm guessing .187 versus .250 - so, is there a crimp-on >spade lug for terminating wires on a terminal block this size, or >should I just slip the wires in and tighten down? Vendor suggestion? See http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/0295.pdf http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/0296.pdf for a complete range of PIDG terminals. Get out your callipers and see what size will really fit your terminal block. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap At 09:57 AM 1/3/2007 -0700, you wrote: > >Screw terminals are generally a pain. But... 338-1252-ND from digikey >gets everything you want except the temperature spec - 95C instead of >105C. If you aren't installing it in a certified harsh environment 95C >might be fine. I agree. This part number will be fine. However, avoid any ideas about substituting a wired device of the same ratings over the screw-terminal devices. Their internal construction is not as well suited for high-ripple current filtering that we're looking for in this application. It's that "computer grade" thing that makes the difference and all these puppies come with 10-32 screw terminals. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:25 PM PST US From: "David M." Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) check fcc.gov. If a business complains to the FCC then the freq police are obligated to investigate. If they find you they fine you or jail you. David M. Jerry Grimmonpre wrote: > Do Not Archive > David ... > Who do you pay the fee to and how do they know if you are still > transmitting and not paying the fee? > Jerry Grimmonpre' > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David M. > To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 6:37 AM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" > (Additional data) > > GMRS is not license free. It's $75 for 5 years if you use those > frequencies. > > David M. > > > Speedy11@aol.com wrote: > >> Very cool info. I wasn't aware of those radios. I ordered a >> pair as soon as I saw your posting. Thanks. >> Stan Sutterfield >> Do not archive >> >> >> GMRS, FRS and a few other handy acronyms are used to describe >> a variety >> of license free or easy license use of the radio spectrum for >> personal communications. >> >> >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> > > >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List >href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:26 PM PST US From: "John Burnaby" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Slow turning Vacumn Pump drive. I have an all electric setup and a free vacumn pad on which I'd like to put a direct-drive alternator, ala SD 20. Problem is the Franklin drive turns at 80% of engine speed. Is there a reasonable size D-D alt that will put out 20 A @ 1900 rpm? Searched the archives and found the GAMI Supplenator, but GAMI only sells the package system, with lots of bells and whistles, for $4K. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:28 PM PST US From: Sally Kilishek Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: What Are The Odds - Problem Solved (I think) Bob: As usual, your intuition (in this case about faulty ground connections) is right on target. I replaced the alternator ground wire, which had run to a nearby engine bolt, with a piece of #18 wire going directly to the regulator case. All aberrant behavior stopped at once. Bus voltage is now mostly 14.6 to 14.8 volts, with infrequent excursions to 14.4 or 15.0 volts. Dont know why this worked, since the original ground connection tested fine on the multimeter (showed zero ohms to airframe ground), but who am I to question success? Ill put some additional flight test time on the system when the weather improves, but Im feeling pretty confident that the problem is solved. I know that a 14.8V bus voltage will put more stress on the battery than 13.8 volts would, but I think we can probably live with that. I dont think that this will hurt the avionics. In answer to your questions: My ground system is as follows. The voltage regulator is bolted to the stainless steel firewall. The landing light and strobes are grounded to the wing structure. The PTT switches are grounded to convenient points near the control sticks. Everything else is grounded at a single accessible point behind the instrument panel. With the exception of the 60A alternator B lead breaker (which is a push to reset thermal breaker) all circuit breakers are Polyswitch PTC current limiters with indicator lights for each circuit. I know that I speak for many others when I express my sincere gratitude to you for monitoring this list and for steering dummies like me away from despair. God bless you. George Kilishek --------------------------------------- /snip/ >The fact that the voltage the regulator sees is a few >tenths of a volt lower than the actual bus voltage >probably indicates a problem with the wiring between >the regulator and the alternator breaker. This is >about 6 feet of #18 wire from the regulator to the >alternator switch and about 2 feet of #18 wire from >the switch to the breaker (Faston connectors >throughout). > >Do you have any suggestions? Keep in mind that "wiring" includes ALL conductor pathways including ground. These simple regulators use case ground as the negative side sense lead for voltage regulation. /snip/ __________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:27 PM PST US From: "Bill and Marsha" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap Matt Thanks for the quick reply. What do you mean by, generally a pain? What problems can I expect to incounter with screw terminals? Bill S. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Prather" Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:57 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap > > > Screw terminals are generally a pain. But... 338-1252-ND from digikey > gets everything you want except the temperature spec - 95C instead of > 105C. If you aren't installing it in a certified harsh environment 95C > might be fine. > > > Matt- > >> Can anyone give me a part # and mfgr. for a 22000MFD 25v 105c filter >> cap? or what ever is better. ( Must have screw terminals.) >> Thanks Bill S. > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:50 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap > What do you mean by, generally a pain? What problems can I expect > to incounter with screw terminals? Bill, Matt and all, FWIW, I installed such a screw terminal capacitor in our airplane three years ago, and we have been flying for two years now, without any problem. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap From: "Matt Prather" Ahhh.. I just gripe because screw terminals seem unnecessairly fiddly. Electrical components are often mounted in places where access/vision is limited. Threading small screws through lugs crimped to springy wire can be a test of dexterity and patience. No big deal, but I like to have things built for quick serviceability. As a possible alternative, I remember seeing threaded lug to spade adapters on the tops of the older Bosch (at least) automotive ignition coils. A threaded stud sticks out of the top of the coil. Captured by a nut threaded onto the stud is a piece of tinned metal. The end of that piece of metal is properly sized/formed to accept female spade terminals. I did a quick online search and couldn't find what I was looking for... Maybe somebody knows what these things are actually called.. What I am talking about is depicted here: http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/27/200px-Igncoil.jpg or here: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/ignition-coil-blaster_small.jpg&imgrefurl=http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/engine-tuneup.html&h=155&w=150&sz=3&hl=en&sig2=JP9z4J26Tyw9NHdBBJn8jw&start=64&tbnid=M4N61qRrCiDkHM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=94&ei=_0WcRYWOL8zI6gH2pM3dDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dignition%2Bcoil%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN or here: http://content.performanceproducts.com/main/101089/boschigcoil.jpg It should be pretty easy to make such a thing. Regards, Matt- > > > Matt Thanks for the quick reply. What do you mean by, generally a > pain? What problems can I expect to incounter with screw terminals? > Bill > S. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Prather" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap > > >> >> >> Screw terminals are generally a pain. But... 338-1252-ND from digikey >> gets everything you want except the temperature spec - 95C instead of >> 105C. If you aren't installing it in a certified harsh environment 95C >> might be fine. >> >> >> Matt- >> >>> Can anyone give me a part # and mfgr. for a 22000MFD 25v 105c >>> filter >>> cap? or what ever is better. ( Must have screw terminals.) >>> Thanks Bill S. >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:07:14 PM PST US From: "jdalton77" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Battery AND Starter Contactor? Hello, I'm new to the list, and just getting started on the wings of an RV-10, having finished the tail kit last month. I've read Bob's book, but as I'm starting to design my electrical system I have (at least for now) a question. The schematic in "the book" shows the main battery pos wire connected to the battery contactor and then from there to the starter contactor. I just viewed the HomebuiltHelper Video on wiring a homebuilt and they showed the battery connected directly to the "starter solenoid" which I think is meant to be called the starter contactor (at least it looks like one). So my newbie questions are: 1. Are both of these approaches correct? 2. Is the "starter contactor" any different than the "batter contactor?" 3. Am I correct in that the device in the video is not called a "solenoid?" From reading Bob's book, I'm guessing this is the "close but no cigar" example. Thanks and please be gentle. Jeff Dalton ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:14 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap Steinair has faston adapters for use on terminal strips that could be cut in half and used. Don ---- Matt Prather wrote: > > Ahhh.. I just gripe because screw terminals seem unnecessairly fiddly. > Electrical components are often mounted in places where access/vision is > limited. Threading small screws through lugs crimped to springy wire can > be a test of dexterity and patience. No big deal, but I like to have > things built for quick serviceability. > > As a possible alternative, I remember seeing threaded lug to spade > adapters on the tops of the older Bosch (at least) automotive ignition > coils. A threaded stud sticks out of the top of the coil. Captured by a > nut threaded onto the stud is a piece of tinned metal. The end of that > piece of metal is properly sized/formed to accept female spade terminals. > I did a quick online search and couldn't find what I was looking for... > Maybe somebody knows what these things are actually called.. > > What I am talking about is depicted here: > > http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/27/200px-Igncoil.jpg > > or here: > > http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/images/ignition-coil-blaster_small.jpg&imgrefurl=http://specialtauto.com/delorean-parts/engine-tuneup.html&h=155&w=150&sz=3&hl=en&sig2=JP9z4J26Tyw9NHdBBJn8jw&start=64&tbnid=M4N61qRrCiDkHM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=94&ei=_0WcRYWOL8zI6gH2pM3dDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dignition%2Bcoil%26start%3D60%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN > > or here: > > http://content.performanceproducts.com/main/101089/boschigcoil.jpg > > It should be pretty easy to make such a thing. > > > Regards, > > Matt- > > > > > > > > Matt Thanks for the quick reply. What do you mean by, generally a > > pain? What problems can I expect to incounter with screw terminals? > > Bill > > S. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Matt Prather" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:57 AM > > Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: filter cap > > > > > >> > >> > >> Screw terminals are generally a pain. But... 338-1252-ND from digikey > >> gets everything you want except the temperature spec - 95C instead of > >> 105C. If you aren't installing it in a certified harsh environment 95C > >> might be fine. > >> > >> > >> Matt- > >> > >>> Can anyone give me a part # and mfgr. for a 22000MFD 25v 105c > >>> filter > >>> cap? or what ever is better. ( Must have screw terminals.) > >>> Thanks Bill S. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Battery AND Starter Contactor? From: "Matt Prather" Whooo.. This is a recurring topic of questions on the list.. Much discussion in the archives. Answers: 1. It depends on your design goals. Probably both designs aren't correct however. Aircraft electrical systems need a high current battery switch - either an electrically operated relay, or a big mechanical switch. A primary reason is so that the whole system can be de-energized by isolating the battery from the rest of the airplane. The high current switch needs to be mounted as close as practicably possible to the battery. The longer the run from the battery to the battery contactor, the more care in protecting the wire that forms this connection. 2. Starter contactors are typically momentary switches, and can take quite a bit of power to actuate 10Watts+. This extra current helps make the switching action more robust - good for controlling currents in the hundreds of amps. Battery contactors are continuous duty devices. They consume less power, and won't switch a 200A+ load as robustly as the starter contactor. 3. Your assessment seems correct. Regards, Matt- > Hello, > > I'm new to the list, and just getting started on the wings of an RV-10, > having finished the tail kit last month. I've read Bob's book, but as I'm > starting to design my electrical system I have (at least for now) a > question. > > The schematic in "the book" shows the main battery pos wire connected to > the battery contactor and then from there to the starter contactor. I > just viewed the HomebuiltHelper Video on wiring a homebuilt and they > showed the battery connected directly to the "starter solenoid" which I > think is meant to be called the starter contactor (at least it looks like > one). > > So my newbie questions are: > > 1. Are both of these approaches correct? > 2. Is the "starter contactor" any different than the "batter contactor?" > 3. Am I correct in that the device in the video is not called a > "solenoid?" From reading Bob's book, I'm guessing this is the "close but > no cigar" example. > > Thanks and please be gentle. > > Jeff Dalton ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:32 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 91.205 (WAAS) 1/3/2007 Hello Wayne, Good to hear from you. You wrote: "I've heard it said more than once that an amateur-built plane cannot be flown IFR with just a GPS. It must also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board. They cite 91.205 and the requirement to have "...equipment on board appropriate to the ***ground-based*** navaids to be used. Why do you think experimentals are held to that when the standard certificated aircraft (Mooneys, Pipers, etc) are now flying with WAAS GPSs and nothing else? Why must me have the crappy, out-dated stuff on board when the new avionics suites in the newer planes do not?" I do not agree with the statement "It (an ABEA (Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft)) must also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board." Here is why I do not agree with that statement: A) "The GNS 400/500 series have earned the FAAs TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification, which enables pilots to fly Lateral-Precision with Vertical (LPV) guidance approaches and receive GPS navigation via the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS)." B) "Garmins GNS 400W/500W series meets the FAAs highest level of certification for WAAS navigation. The units utilize satellite-based navaids for precise lateral and vertical approach guidance similar to Instrument Landing System (ILS) operations without the need for ground-based navaids of any kind." C) "The WAAS system improves the accuracy, reliability and integrity of the GPS signal. GPS-WAAS navigators that meet FAAs WAAS regulations may be used for sole means of navigation* for all phases of flight, including en route through precision approach at airports." These paragraph A, B, and C quotes are from a Garmin press release, see copy below. D) The WAAS system does involve ground facilities despite what Garmin says in B above. See http://gps.faa.gov/programs/index.htm for a description of the WAAS that incorporates both WRS (Wide area Reference Stations) and a WMS (WAAS Master Station) which are facilities located on the ground. Therefore an ABEA equipped with either a GNS 400W/500W, but no VHF navigation equipment would be in compliance with its Operating Limitations which requires compliance with FAR 91.205 (b), (c), and (d) when operating IFR. Specifically the WAAS navigation equipment of that aircraft would be in compliance with 91.205 (d) (2) which requires "navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used." I intend to upgrade my GNS 430 to 430W configuration, but I certainly don't intend to fly IFR if my VHF nav equipment is not operating. Obviously when flying an ILS approach one must have funcioning localizer and glideslope equipment on board. And similarly when flying a published approach that requires GPS / WAAS equipment then that equipment must be on board and functioning. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. ------------------------ GARMIN PRESS RELEASE FOLLOWS -------------- November 9, 2006 Garmin Receives WAAS Certification for GNS 400W/500W series OLATHE, Kansas/November 9, 2006/PR Newswire Garmin International, a unit of Garmin Ltd. (Nasdaq: GRMN), today announced the achievement of a major aviation milestone at the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Expo in Palm Springs, CA. The GNS 400/500 series have earned the FAAs TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification, which enables pilots to fly Lateral-Precision with Vertical (LPV) guidance approaches and receive GPS navigation via the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS). The FAA also granted AML (approved model list) STC approval allowing the 400W/500W equipment to be installed on over 980 popular makes and models of aircraft. The GNS 400/500W series joins the G1000 and GNS 480 in providing WAAS enabled navigation for aircraft. Garmin currently offers more WAAS solutions than any other avionics provider. "This is a great day for Garmin and the aviation industry," said Gary Kelley, Garmins vice president of marketing. "Since the FAA commissioned WAAS in 2003, there has been an enormous demand for WAAS certified equipment in the marketplace. We are pleased to announce that all 75,000 Garmin GNS 400/500 series products currently in the field can upgrade to WAAS. We expect the number of WAAS equipped aircraft to increase quickly, and pilots will be able to operate to and from airports that would otherwise be unavailable to them in marginal weather." Thanks to the certification and AML STC approval, owners of Garmins popular GNS 400/500 series panel-mount avionics will be able to upgrade their products to meet the FAAs WAAS standards* without a field approval**. These upgrades include 5 Hz position updates, faster map redraws, fully coupled and guided procedure turns and holding patterns, and increased XM weather content. Pilots will also experience significantly enhanced functionality because of the WAAS LPV, LNAV/VNAV, LNAV+V, and LNAV approach capabilities. Garmins GNS 400W/500W series meets the FAAs highest level of certification for WAAS navigation. The units utilize satellite-based navaids for precise lateral and vertical approach guidance similar to Instrument Landing System (ILS) operations without the need for ground-based navaids of any kind. The Gamma-3 level of certification lets pilots fly the FAAs new LPV approaches. The FAA has already published over 600 LPV and 5,500 WAAS approach procedures. The WAAS system improves the accuracy, reliability and integrity of the GPS signal. GPS-WAAS navigators that meet FAAs WAAS regulations may be used for sole means of navigation* for all phases of flight, including en route through precision approach at airports. With WAAS LPV approaches, pilots will have stabilized lateral and vertical navigation and will be able to navigate as low as 200 feet above the runway end under instrument flight rules. Garmins panel mount avionics have been installed on nearly three-fourths of all U.S. single and twin-engine piston and turbine aircraft retrofitted since 2000. The company strives continually to raise-the-bar in the avionics industry, and two years ago at the 2004 AOPA Expo Garmins GNS 480 was the first GPS navigator in the industry to earn a TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification. Garmin expects deliveries of the new GNS 430W and GNS 530W to begin in about 30 days with upgrades beginning in January 2007. Upgrades are available for a suggested retail price of $1,500. Pilots who do not currently own Garmin 400/500 series equipment and are in the process of upgrading their avionics, will be able to purchase new GNS 430W and GNS 530W units for $10,750 and $16,495, respectively. Visit www.garmin.com for additional information or a complete list of authorized Garmin dealers. *Due to the TSO limitation in conjunction with the AFMS limitation, Garmins GNS 400/500 series navigators will not be certified as a "primary means" of GPS navigation until after customers install a new software version. Garmin expects to issue a Service Bulletin in the first quarter of 2007 issuing the software. The software will be updated via the 400/500W data loader card. This required software update is expected to be available in the first quarter of 2007. **The AML STC data is intended to provide complete FAA approved data for a large subset of CAR3/FAR23 aircraft; however, if the aircraft does not pre-qualify for the AML STC standards, additional means of airworthiness approval will be required. ------------------------ END OF GARMIN PRESS RELEASE ------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hicks, Wayne" Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: 91.205 > OC: > > Happy New Year to you! > > Can you help me to understand something? I've heard it said more than > once > that an amateur-built plane cannot be flown IFR with just a GPS. It must > also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board. > They cite 91.205 and the requirement to have "...equipment on board > appropriate to the ***ground-based*** navaids to be used." > > Why do you think experimentals are held to that when the standard > certificated aircraft (Mooneys, Pipers, etc) are now flying with WAAS GPSs > and nothing else? Why must me have the crappy, out-dated stuff on board > when the new avionics suites in the newer planes do not? > > I got asked this question from my Cozy builders group. About the only > answer I can come up with is (1) the manufacturer proved the nav > capabilities of the airplane's capabilities as part of its type > certification process; and (2) The FAA is not in the business of > certifying > the on-board nav capabilities of everyone's home-built airplane. So the > FAA > makes us use their nav system. > > How close am I? > > =================== > L. Wayne Hicks > Senior Engineer > Zel Technologies, LLC > 757-325-1282 phone > wayne.hicks@zeltech.com > http://www.zeltech.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:30 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: "Broken and Garbled" (Additional data) In a message dated 01/03/2007 11:28:30 AM Central Standard Time, nuckollsr@cox.net writes: However, for the tasks to which I've applied these radios a range of a few feet has been sufficient. >>> Took some PRS radios on a ski trip to Whistler/Blackcomb a few years back and talked to the kids high on the mountain from the rental unit- maybe 5 or 6 miles, but line-of-sight for sure. These things did work pretty darn well regardless of where the units were on either mountain. Also recall a couple of stranded climbers rescued several years ago because they were able to contact some kid 15 or 20 miles away... Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:30 PM PST US From: "Dan Beadle" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Re: 91.205 (WAAS) The key is the 146 TSO. Without that, GPS is just a backup system. VOR or NDB must be primary. (We all know, that we fly it the other way around). In some cases, like flying direct, we can't even use VORs (too high, too low, too far away). But if we are at vectoring altitudes with radar coverage, again we can use the non-146 GPS as Secondary (even tho VOR is out of range.) With 146 TSO, it is a new ballgame - no underlying VOR required. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bakerocb@cox.net Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 8:56 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: 91.205 (WAAS) 1/3/2007 Hello Wayne, Good to hear from you. You wrote: "I've heard it said more than once that an amateur-built plane cannot be flown IFR with just a GPS. It must also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board. They cite 91.205 and the requirement to have "...equipment on board appropriate to the ***ground-based*** navaids to be used. Why do you think experimentals are held to that when the standard certificated aircraft (Mooneys, Pipers, etc) are now flying with WAAS GPSs and nothing else? Why must me have the crappy, out-dated stuff on board when the new avionics suites in the newer planes do not?" I do not agree with the statement "It (an ABEA (Amateur Built Experimental Aircraft)) must also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board." Here is why I do not agree with that statement: A) "The GNS 400/500 series have earned the FAA's TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification, which enables pilots to fly Lateral-Precision with Vertical (LPV) guidance approaches and receive GPS navigation via the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS)." B) "Garmin's GNS 400W/500W series meets the FAA's highest level of certification for WAAS navigation. The units utilize satellite-based navaids for precise lateral and vertical approach guidance - similar to Instrument Landing System (ILS) operations - without the need for ground-based navaids of any kind." C) "The WAAS system improves the accuracy, reliability and integrity of the GPS signal. GPS-WAAS navigators that meet FAA's WAAS regulations may be used for sole means of navigation* for all phases of flight, including en route through precision approach at airports." These paragraph A, B, and C quotes are from a Garmin press release, see copy below. D) The WAAS system does involve ground facilities despite what Garmin says in B above. See http://gps.faa.gov/programs/index.htm for a description of the WAAS that incorporates both WRS (Wide area Reference Stations) and a WMS (WAAS Master Station) which are facilities located on the ground. Therefore an ABEA equipped with either a GNS 400W/500W, but no VHF navigation equipment would be in compliance with its Operating Limitations which requires compliance with FAR 91.205 (b), (c), and (d) when operating IFR. Specifically the WAAS navigation equipment of that aircraft would be in compliance with 91.205 (d) (2) which requires "navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be used." I intend to upgrade my GNS 430 to 430W configuration, but I certainly don't intend to fly IFR if my VHF nav equipment is not operating. Obviously when flying an ILS approach one must have funcioning localizer and glideslope equipment on board. And similarly when flying a published approach that requires GPS / WAAS equipment then that equipment must be on board and functioning. OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge. ------------------------ GARMIN PRESS RELEASE FOLLOWS -------------- November 9, 2006 GarminR Receives WAAS Certification for GNS 400W/500W series OLATHE, Kansas/November 9, 2006/PR Newswire - Garmin International, a unit of Garmin Ltd. (Nasdaq: GRMN), today announced the achievement of a major aviation milestone at the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Expo in Palm Springs, CA. The GNS 400/500 series have earned the FAA's TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification, which enables pilots to fly Lateral-Precision with Vertical (LPV) guidance approaches and receive GPS navigation via the Wide Area Augmentation System (WAAS). The FAA also granted AML (approved model list) STC approval allowing the 400W/500W equipment to be installed on over 980 popular makes and models of aircraft. The GNS 400/500W series joins the G1000 and GNS 480 in providing WAAS enabled navigation for aircraft. Garmin currently offers more WAAS solutions than any other avionics provider. "This is a great day for Garmin and the aviation industry," said Gary Kelley, Garmin's vice president of marketing. "Since the FAA commissioned WAAS in 2003, there has been an enormous demand for WAAS certified equipment in the marketplace. We are pleased to announce that all 75,000 Garmin GNS 400/500 series products currently in the field can upgrade to WAAS. We expect the number of WAAS equipped aircraft to increase quickly, and pilots will be able to operate to and from airports that would otherwise be unavailable to them in marginal weather." Thanks to the certification and AML STC approval, owners of Garmin's popular GNS 400/500 series panel-mount avionics will be able to upgrade their products to meet the FAA's WAAS standards* without a field approval**. These upgrades include 5 Hz position updates, faster map redraws, fully coupled and guided procedure turns and holding patterns, and increased XM weather content. Pilots will also experience significantly enhanced functionality because of the WAAS LPV, LNAV/VNAV, LNAV+V, and LNAV approach capabilities. Garmin's GNS 400W/500W series meets the FAA's highest level of certification for WAAS navigation. The units utilize satellite-based navaids for precise lateral and vertical approach guidance - similar to Instrument Landing System (ILS) operations - without the need for ground-based navaids of any kind. The Gamma-3 level of certification lets pilots fly the FAA's new LPV approaches. The FAA has already published over 600 LPV and 5,500 WAAS approach procedures. The WAAS system improves the accuracy, reliability and integrity of the GPS signal. GPS-WAAS navigators that meet FAA's WAAS regulations may be used for sole means of navigation* for all phases of flight, including en route through precision approach at airports. With WAAS LPV approaches, pilots will have stabilized lateral and vertical navigation and will be able to navigate as low as 200 feet above the runway end under instrument flight rules. Garmin's panel mount avionics have been installed on nearly three-fourths of all U.S. single and twin-engine piston and turbine aircraft retrofitted since 2000. The company strives continually to raise-the-bar in the avionics industry, and two years ago at the 2004 AOPA Expo Garmin's GNS 480T was the first GPS navigator in the industry to earn a TSO C146a Gamma-3 certification. Garmin expects deliveries of the new GNS 430WT and GNS 530WT to begin in about 30 days with upgrades beginning in January 2007. Upgrades are available for a suggested retail price of $1,500. Pilots who do not currently own Garmin 400/500 series equipment and are in the process of upgrading their avionics, will be able to purchase new GNS 430W and GNS 530W units for $10,750 and $16,495, respectively. Visit www.garmin.com for additional information or a complete list of authorized Garmin dealers. *Due to the TSO limitation in conjunction with the AFMS limitation, Garmin's GNS 400/500 series navigators will not be certified as a "primary means" of GPS navigation until after customers install a new software version. Garmin expects to issue a Service Bulletin in the first quarter of 2007 issuing the software. The software will be updated via the 400/500W data loader card. This required software update is expected to be available in the first quarter of 2007. **The AML STC data is intended to provide complete FAA approved data for a large subset of CAR3/FAR23 aircraft; however, if the aircraft does not pre-qualify for the AML STC standards, additional means of airworthiness approval will be required. ------------------------ END OF GARMIN PRESS RELEASE ------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hicks, Wayne" Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 3:02 PM Subject: 91.205 > OC: > > Happy New Year to you! > > Can you help me to understand something? I've heard it said more than > once > that an amateur-built plane cannot be flown IFR with just a GPS. It must > also have the traditional VOR and ILS (when needed) receivers on board. > They cite 91.205 and the requirement to have "...equipment on board > appropriate to the ***ground-based*** navaids to be used." > > Why do you think experimentals are held to that when the standard > certificated aircraft (Mooneys, Pipers, etc) are now flying with WAAS GPSs > and nothing else? Why must me have the crappy, out-dated stuff on board > when the new avionics suites in the newer planes do not? > > I got asked this question from my Cozy builders group. About the only > answer I can come up with is (1) the manufacturer proved the nav > capabilities of the airplane's capabilities as part of its type > certification process; and (2) The FAA is not in the business of > certifying > the on-board nav capabilities of everyone's home-built airplane. So the > FAA > makes us use their nav system. > > How close am I? > > =================== > L. Wayne Hicks > Senior Engineer > Zel Technologies, LLC > 757-325-1282 phone > wayne.hicks@zeltech.com > http://www.zeltech.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.