Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:44 AM - Mode S and TIS (Eric Parlow)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 (dfischer@iserv.net)
3. 06:41 AM - Re: Mode S and TIS (Tim Olson)
4. 07:45 AM - Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 (Chuck Jensen)
5. 08:43 AM - Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 (Tim Olson)
6. 09:53 AM - Fluctuation alternator output fix (using cheap external regulator) (Vern Little)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 (dfischer@iserv.net)
8. 10:38 AM - Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 (Chuck Jensen)
9. 11:09 AM - 2 comm antennas on one airplane (Duane Wilson)
10. 11:50 AM - Re: ABEA and TSO's...and fuel level sensors (Larry L. Tompkins, P.E.)
11. 07:32 PM - Re: Mode S and TIS (Mike)
Message 1
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Does Mode S with TIS displayed on the GNS 430W have enough practical value
to justify the $2000 cost to upgrade to the GTX 330 from the GTX 327?
Is anyone using it now?
ERic--
RV-10
40014
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 |
And as a side question, if a person hasn't purchased either yet, what are
the advantages/disadvantages of a 430 WAAS vs. a GNS-480? I lean towards
the 480, but it would seem to me (I'm not that familiar with either) that
they both would do essentially the same things.
Doug Fischer
Jenison, MI
RV-9A Wings
do not archive
> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
> Has anyone upgraded their GNS-430 to a GNS-430W (WAAS)?
>
> And are there any additional hardware/software changes required?
>
> ERic
> RV-10
> Avionics
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Mode S and TIS |
I haven't seen it on a 430W before, but even on the small
screen on my 480 it's plenty worthwhile, and even better
on the larger Chelton screens. I'd say that if you're
living out East by you, it's probably one of those
nearly must-have things if you're not going to have ADS-B
coverage there.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric Parlow wrote:
> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
> Does Mode S with TIS displayed on the GNS 430W have enough practical
> value to justify the $2000 cost to upgrade to the GTX 330 from the GTX 327?
>
> Is anyone using it now?
>
> ERic--
> RV-10
> 40014
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 |
Yes, the 430 and 480 may do the same thing, but they certainly do it
differently. Based on use of both, the 430 is not in the same league as
the 480...if it is to be used for IFR.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfischer@iserv.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430
And as a side question, if a person hasn't purchased either yet, what
are the advantages/disadvantages of a 430 WAAS vs. a GNS-480? I lean
towards the 480, but it would seem to me (I'm not that familiar with
either) that they both would do essentially the same things.
Doug Fischer
Jenison, MI
RV-9A Wings
do not archive
> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
> Has anyone upgraded their GNS-430 to a GNS-430W (WAAS)?
>
> And are there any additional hardware/software changes required?
>
> ERic
> RV-10
> Avionics
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 |
Having just been through this war on the RV-10 list, I had to dig up as
much as I could to sort out the differences.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/avionics/430vs480.html
The only additional tidbit that I heard the other day that I don't know
how true it is, is that the Apollo stuff may have less power but the
Garmin stuff requires more power to do equal work. That's only a side
comment, but I have no idea of it's factual-ness.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chuck Jensen wrote:
>
> Yes, the 430 and 480 may do the same thing, but they certainly do it
> differently. Based on use of both, the 430 is not in the same league as
> the 480...if it is to be used for IFR.
>
> Chuck Jensen
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> dfischer@iserv.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:40 AM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430
>
>
>
> And as a side question, if a person hasn't purchased either yet, what
> are the advantages/disadvantages of a 430 WAAS vs. a GNS-480? I lean
> towards the 480, but it would seem to me (I'm not that familiar with
> either) that they both would do essentially the same things.
>
> Doug Fischer
> Jenison, MI
> RV-9A Wings
> do not archive
>
>
>> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Has anyone upgraded their GNS-430 to a GNS-430W (WAAS)?
>>
>> And are there any additional hardware/software changes required?
>>
>> ERic
>> RV-10
>> Avionics
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fluctuation alternator output fix (using cheap external |
regulator)
After a year of fighting overvoltages (bad master switch) and
fluctuating alternator output (too much voltage drop in field sense
circuit), I finally found a fix.
I'm using the Van's supplied Transpo regulator, which senses the bus
voltage from the same circuit it provides field current, thus exciting
oscillations if there is too much resistance in the circuit.
Rather than repeat the details, I point anyone who's interested to this
link:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=13682&highlight=FLUCTUATING
or the bottom of:
http://www3.telus.net/aviation/flying/RV-9A/photos/Electrical/Electrical_photos.html
I should have used a better regulator from the beginning, but the $5.00
fix now holds the alternator voltage rock solid.
Vern Little
RV-9A
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 |
WOW! Great info! It had to take quite a bit of work to put all that
together. Thanks!
Doug Fischer
Jenison, MI
RV-9A Wings
>
> Having just been through this war on the RV-10 list, I had to dig up as
> much as I could to sort out the differences.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/avionics/430vs480.html
>
> The only additional tidbit that I heard the other day that I don't know
> how true it is, is that the Apollo stuff may have less power but the
> Garmin stuff requires more power to do equal work. That's only a side
> comment, but I have no idea of it's factual-ness.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chuck Jensen wrote:
>> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>
>> Yes, the 430 and 480 may do the same thing, but they certainly do it
>> differently. Based on use of both, the 430 is not in the same league as
>> the 480...if it is to be used for IFR.
>>
>> Chuck Jensen
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> dfischer@iserv.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:40 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430
>>
>>
>>
>> And as a side question, if a person hasn't purchased either yet, what
>> are the advantages/disadvantages of a 430 WAAS vs. a GNS-480? I lean
>> towards the 480, but it would seem to me (I'm not that familiar with
>> either) that they both would do essentially the same things.
>>
>> Doug Fischer
>> Jenison, MI
>> RV-9A Wings
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> Has anyone upgraded their GNS-430 to a GNS-430W (WAAS)?
>>>
>>> And are there any additional hardware/software changes required?
>>>
>>> ERic
>>> RV-10
>>> Avionics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430 |
Doug,
It's a good chart, but like statistics, can also be misleading. In
short, the Pros and Cons are not weighted. It says that the 480 has 18
buttons but the 430 only has 12, hence the 430 is 50% simpler---not. My
original comment regarding the 480 being far and away superior to IFR
work stands. Entering airways, intersections and data into a flight
plan, be it new or edited, is a snap. Rarely do you have to enter much
of any letter or number designators--most are grabbed off the drop down
lists or the soft key choices, when then automatically tunes the radio,
VOR or enters the choice into the flight plan.
I the whole chart, this very important operating characteristic is given
a single line say the 'entering airways is easier in the 480'. That's
like saying the Atlantic is bigger than Lake Erie...it's true, but
sharply understates the difference. Other chart entries that are of
little significance where the 430 may be equal or even superior is given
the same weight at things that are actually important functionally. So
yes, the chart is useful, but only as a starting point, not a final
decision tool.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dfischer@iserv.net
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430
WOW! Great info! It had to take quite a bit of work to put all that
together. Thanks!
Doug Fischer
Jenison, MI
RV-9A Wings
>
> Having just been through this war on the RV-10 list, I had to dig up
> as much as I could to sort out the differences.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/avionics/430vs480.html
>
> The only additional tidbit that I heard the other day that I don't
> know how true it is, is that the Apollo stuff may have less power but
> the Garmin stuff requires more power to do equal work. That's only a
> side comment, but I have no idea of it's factual-ness.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chuck Jensen wrote:
>> <cjensen@dts9000.com>
>>
>> Yes, the 430 and 480 may do the same thing, but they certainly do it
>> differently. Based on use of both, the 430 is not in the same league
>> as the 480...if it is to be used for IFR.
>>
>> Chuck Jensen
>> Do Not Archive
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>> dfischer@iserv.net
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:40 AM
>> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Garmin WAAS upgrade for GNS 430
>>
>>
>>
>> And as a side question, if a person hasn't purchased either yet, what
>> are the advantages/disadvantages of a 430 WAAS vs. a GNS-480? I lean
>> towards the 480, but it would seem to me (I'm not that familiar with
>> either) that they both would do essentially the same things.
>>
>> Doug Fischer
>> Jenison, MI
>> RV-9A Wings
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>> <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>>>
>>> Has anyone upgraded their GNS-430 to a GNS-430W (WAAS)?
>>>
>>> And are there any additional hardware/software changes required?
>>>
>>> ERic
>>> RV-10
>>> Avionics
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 2 comm antennas on one airplane |
Can someone please point me to a reference telling me how close together
I can put 2 comm antennas on my RV9?
I already have one just in front of the carry through bulkhead. I need
to add a second one for my new SL30.
Thanks,
Duane
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: ABEA and TSO's...and fuel level sensors |
The following is a portion of the historical basis for the term "or
equivalent."
This response is also a suggestion that we each continue to do the "best
we know how," as Bob N. advocates when it comes to equipment.
Unfortunately, a bureaucrat is someone who truly believes in his "heart
of hearts" that it is regulations written by non-pilot lawyers rather
than LIFT that keeps planes flying. Therefore, if you have a mishap in
an aircraft, said bureaucraft merely needs to determine which regulation
you broke and, by his own definition/philosophy, he has the explanation
for your crash. So your determination to use experimental category
avionics ought to be determined by your own diligent research that the
product design and manufacture is reliable and durable. IMHO, you will
be in the position of defending yourself after any accident you survive.
RANT:
Speaking from 35+ years auto/transportation engineering experience, some
of the worst efforts by bureaucrats are when they jump on the
UNDERdeveloped technology band wagon and legislate that technology into
production. Some examples are the original truck ABS systems and 1st
generations air bags. The original truck ABS law basically stated that
semi-trucks had to have ABS brakes. Because of susceptability to
RFI/EMI these early ABS trucks had NO brakes when the driver keyed the
mike on his CB radio, especially if equipped witha linear amplifier.
The Feds were sued by PACCAR and they learned their lesson. The Feds
have learned to drive technology with "patent law" type descriptions so
they can't be held liable for legally requiring technology that doesn't
work. Here is one example: NHTSA wanted to standardize car bumper
heights at 16 - 20" above ground, but the CFRs don't say build your car
with a bumper face that is 16 - 20" above ground. The CFRs say that the
bumper system is required to pass a pendulum test and the face of the
pendulum that strikes the bumper will be from 16 - 20" above ground.
Back to Aviation:
Rotax was at one time going to give customers the choice of purchasing a
certificated or non-certificated engine. By their own acknowledgment
all the engines were built in the same facility, on the same production
line and from the same parts. My recollection is that the cost of the
paperwork trail added 2 - 3 thousand dollars to the price of the
certificated engine. I would argue that the certification added no
value.
Non-certificated avionics is not quite the same apple, because the OBAM
avionics manufacturers are not building any certificated units. This is
a "caveat emptor" situation. There is a lot of attraction for a GRT or
AFS EFIS for 25% of the cost of a certificated Chelton System. The
determination each of us potentially bets our lives and the lives of our
families on is that these manufacturers have done all the work that adds
value, reliability and durability without the accompanying NO value
paperwork. I am contemplating one of these two systems for my own
plane, but my decision will be deliberate and I will be test flying
whatever system I choose for quite a while before I depend on it in the
clouds.
One area where I have a great deal of concern is the experience level of
the engineers at these companies. If a person is ignorant of items that
have already been discovered and addressed by TSO type testing, then
that person can actually believe that he is doing a terrific job, when
he is truly not doing "the best we know how." TSOs offer some
protection that known issues have been addressed. Without a TSO it then
becomes our OWN responsibility to determine that the purveyor of the
avionics is not ignorant of issues and has addressed them in his product
design.
A second concern I have is that new marketing features seem to be
frequently released. I don't know how well thought out and proven some
of these features are. My own preference is NOT to be a Beta site for
the avionics manufacturer. I am a forensic engineer and use an accident
reconstruction software that has had 14 new releases since December
2005! I would argue that every user of this software (Windows XP based)
is a beta site. The software is fabulously useful, but when it glitches
I am still sitting in my chair firmly supported by the floor. I would
not want to be using software like this at 5000' AGL in the soup!
Larry
Message 11
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Eric,
I have a fully integrated Chelton EFIS system will almost all of the
bells and whistles. The WSI weather (some use XM) overlay is to me the
best bang for the buck, followed closely by some form of graphic traffic
system. I am using the TIS format, when you are in a busy terminal area
you have good traffic depiction. At work I have TCAS and find that TIS
works very will by comparison. I have a simple proximity system for the
non-terminal areas.
Mike Larkin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Parlow
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:43 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Mode S and TIS
<ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Does Mode S with TIS displayed on the GNS 430W have enough practical
value
to justify the $2000 cost to upgrade to the GTX 330 from the GTX 327?
Is anyone using it now?
ERic--
RV-10
40014
--
12/12/2006
--
12/12/2006
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