Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:47 AM - Re: Annunciator Panel FYI (Al Etherington)
2. 08:16 AM - Re: Voltage Regulator Wire Sizes: Do I Really Need 12 AWG? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 08:18 AM - Re: over voltage protection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 08:35 AM - Re: Re: Secure connection to a diode? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: over voltage protection (Michael T. Ice)
6. 09:57 AM - Need low cost schematic program (Greg Papendick)
7. 10:52 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (LarryMcFarland)
8. 11:14 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Ernest Christley)
9. 11:23 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 11:38 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Vern Little)
11. 11:41 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Malcolm Thomson)
12. 11:52 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Carl Morgan)
13. 01:42 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (John W. Cox)
14. 03:20 PM - Re: Annunciator Panel FYI (raymondj)
15. 05:33 PM - Re:Re: TSO's...and fuel level sensors (Eric Schlanser)
16. 06:35 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Ernest Christley)
17. 06:35 PM - Fat Capacitor Question (Matt Jurotich)
18. 06:36 PM - 8AWG Wire to Fast-On Connection (Larry Rosen)
19. 07:17 PM - Re: Stone-simple, GPS course tracking wing leveler (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
20. 07:20 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
21. 07:51 PM - Wig Wag High Beams ()
22. 10:23 PM - Re: Re: Secure connection to a diode? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
23. 10:24 PM - Re: 8AWG Wire to Fast-On Connection (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Annunciator Panel FYI |
Nathan Ulrich wrote:
>
> Although it doesn't have nearly the features of Alan's proposed annunciator,
> I built a custom annunciator panel for my Bonanza. It has 16 LED outputs, 13
> Stanley bar LEDs and 3 discrete LEDs for marker beacon lights (amber, blue,
> white). Except for the marker beacon LEDs, each output can be driven by a
> low or high signal. It has a test button, of course. The circuitry is pretty
> basic, mostly some surface mount transistors, diodes and resistors. It dims
> at night by being connected to the dimmer circuit (switched by the nav light
> switch).
>
> I designed and machined an aluminum housing for it, so that it mounts with
> six screws from behind the panel above my six pack. You can see a photo at:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/nathantu
>
> The annunciator photo is near the bottom. I'd be glad to provide more info
> if anyone is interested...
>
> Nathan
>
>
>
Hi Nathan:
I saved your e-mail for a time when I wasn't so busy, thus the delay in
responding.
I would like a little more info on your annunciator. As I am somewhat
electronically challenged, your circuitry would be of particular
interest. Beautiful machining, by the way.
Thanks,
Al Etherington
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Voltage Regulator Wire Sizes: Do I Really Need |
12 AWG?
At 07:44 PM 1/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>Folks,
>
>Per page 4-7 of the "Connection", I'm planning on running the Field and
>two ground wires from the B&C LR3C-14 to the battery in the back of my
>GlaStar. The round trip distance between the battery location and the
>regulator is (generously) about 40' (it may turn out closer to 35'
>depending on wire routing and final battery location).
>
>Using the 5 Amp rating of the field breaker, my figuring using Figure 11-2
>in AC 43.13 says to use a 12 AWG wire. That seems awfully "fat",
>especially since the B&C instructions specify 18 AWG. Fig. 11-2 indicates
>that 18 AWG will carry 5 Amps continuously for about 16', which sounds
>about right for the distance from the alternator to the regulator and from
>the regulator to a power buss on the panel.
>
>Do I really need 12 AWG here? I don't recall seeing any information on
>the normal load on the Field wire. Since the B&C instructions call for
>redundant ground wires, can I use two 15 AWG for the ground wires and a 12
>AWG for the Field wire?
>
>(My calculations don't take into account that these voltage regulator
>wires would be bundled with the (2) 2 AWG "mains"; the two wires for the
>battery contactor and an "always hot" wire.)
The schematics on 4-7 are a discussion of the effects of voltage
drop in wiring and the advantages of choosing voltage sense
points with understanding. As a practical matter I recommend
the following:
Mount the regulator up front. Either side of the firewall is
fine. Ground the regulator's "ground" terminal and case to
the firewall ground block. Run 20AWG wire for the field supply
and field output leads by the shortest practical route to
alternator and DC PWR Master switch. Since the LR series
regulators now feature remote sensing by a conductor
separate from the field supply wire, concern for voltage
drops described in Chapter 4 have been eliminated by
design.
See Z-figures.
>
>Unrelated "bonus" question. I there any reason I can't bundle the Field
>wire from the alternator back through the firewall with the thermocouple
>wires for the CHT and EGT? This bundle will also have another wire from
>the alternator to a test point on the panel so I can measure the Field
>voltage from the cockpit per Bob's suggestion.)
There are NO constraints for bundling wires of various
systems together - assuming each of the systems in question have
been designed to live in the real world.
Bob . . .
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: over voltage protection |
At 04:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0900, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I don't want to start a IR/non IR alternator war here but I have a question.
>
>I am going to be using the ND 55 (or at least it is the Van's 60 Amp model
>and it is already on order) and I don't want to use the over voltage
>protection. I don't think it is necessary and I can't figure out where to
>install another one of the huge contactors.
>
> I am following the Z-11 system. I was wondering if I were to just by
> pass the part on the drawing for the over voltage and wire the Number 4
> contact directly to the F terminal on the Alternator and the wire from
> the Number 2 terminal to the Battery contactor would that work.
>
>Would installing the crow bar O.V. protect module after the 5 amp pull
>able fuse offer any advantages if I don't install the battery disconnect
>contactor?
At the present time, there is no one-size-fits-all ov protection
scheme available for internally regulated alternators. I have
taken possession of a 10 hp alternator drive stand that needs
some serious attention before I can use it for any new investigations
or development work. However, know that a technique has been
devised and will be turned into real product sometime this year.
Further, the device is easily added to any existing alternator
installation. I'll suggest you proceed with your plans while
bypassing the ov protection and control issues. We'll fill this
box in later.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Secure connection to a diode? |
At 04:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>
>I don t have a schematic or wiring diagram. The application is a gear
>door sequencing system with a control box, gear switch, 10 micro switches,
>4 electrically controlled hydraulic valves and three diodes (1N5400, I
>think). All I got was a written description of how to wire all
>components. All wires are 20 AWG except power and ground.
>
>
>Diode A: Gear micro switch & control box pin 12---(diode)---gear switch &
>hyd valve A
>
>Diode B: Gear micro switch & control box pin 15---(diode)---gear switch &
>hyd valve B
>
>Diode C: Control box pin 2---(diode)---hyd valve D
>
>
>So how do I connect the diode leads in line to 20 AWG wire securely?
I'll publish a comic book on this later
today.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: over voltage protection |
Bob,
Thank you for a practical answer. I will keep looking for this new technique
and product that you speak of.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: over voltage protection
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 04:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0900, you wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I don't want to start a IR/non IR alternator war here but I have a
>>question.
>>
>>I am going to be using the ND 55 (or at least it is the Van's 60 Amp model
>>and it is already on order) and I don't want to use the over voltage
>>protection. I don't think it is necessary and I can't figure out where to
>>install another one of the huge contactors.
>>
>> I am following the Z-11 system. I was wondering if I were to just by
>> pass the part on the drawing for the over voltage and wire the Number 4
>> contact directly to the F terminal on the Alternator and the wire from
>> the Number 2 terminal to the Battery contactor would that work.
>>
>>Would installing the crow bar O.V. protect module after the 5 amp pull
>>able fuse offer any advantages if I don't install the battery disconnect
>>contactor?
>
> At the present time, there is no one-size-fits-all ov protection
> scheme available for internally regulated alternators. I have
> taken possession of a 10 hp alternator drive stand that needs
> some serious attention before I can use it for any new investigations
> or development work. However, know that a technique has been
> devised and will be turned into real product sometime this year.
> Further, the device is easily added to any existing alternator
> installation. I'll suggest you proceed with your plans while
> bypassing the ov protection and control issues. We'll fill this
> box in later.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
> < the authority which determines whether there can be >
> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
> < with experiment. >
> < --Lawrence M. Krauss >
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Need low cost schematic program |
I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
Greg
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
Hi Greg,
I'd recommend you use TurboCAD Vers 11 or later. I've worked with ProE
and Autocad, but find
TurboCAD much more productive, capable of quick 3D design and all the
tools for rendering and
providing exacting product design without the strain involved with the
other two. It's not priced
nearly as high as the others as well.
Sample drawing links,
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring.gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/electrical/full/primary-wiring-(SH-2).gif
http://www.macsmachine.com/images/gear/full/travel-stop-and-stear-link.gif
Good luck,
Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
Greg Papendick wrote:
>
> I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
> laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
> purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
> curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
>
> I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
> program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
> small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
> that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
> use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
>
> Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
>
> Greg
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
Greg Papendick wrote:
>
> I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
> laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
> purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
> curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
>
> I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
> program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
> small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
> that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
> use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
>
> Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
>
> Greg
>
>
You simply must give gEDA a try. It sells for the whopping sum of
"absolutely nothing" (it's open source.) It took me only a few moments
to start laying out circuits, and a day or so to figure out the tools
set that will take you from your schematic layout to a PCB silkscreen
print. If you get everything set up correctly in the schematic, it will
arrange all the components and traces automatically. It did a much
better arrangement job in less than a minute than I did over several hours.
Get copper clad boards from RadioShack. Create a resist with a laser
printer. Use muriatic acid mixed with hydrogen peroxide to etch. My
single largest cost to produce one of Jim Weir's capacitive fuel level
sensor was, by far, the shipping of the components from Newark.
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
At 12:55 PM 1/14/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
>laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
>purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
>curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
TurboCAD v7 and higher will open, edit, save, and print
the AutoCAD .dwg files posted at:
http://aeroelectric.com/PPS
You can buy TurboCAD really cheap on Ebay. Here's an exemplar
listing:
http://tinyurl.com/unm8y
>I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
>program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
>small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
>that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
>use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
We use ExpressPCB for all but the largest production
tasks. Their software is free. The service for small
quantities is quick and reasonable. Furhter, as we
begin to publish more DIY projects using ECB layouts,
we'll also publish the artwork files in ExpressPCB format.
Take a peek at:
http://www.expresspcb.com/
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
Greg: Here is exactly what you need... it's free and very easy to use:
http://www.expresspcb.com/
Here is a schematic for my RV-9A, and a library of custom components:
http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html
Have fun.
Vern Little
Greg Papendick wrote:
>
> I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
> laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
> purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
> curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
>
> I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
> program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
> small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
> that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
> use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
>
> Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Need low cost schematic program |
Try ExpressPCB - good for circuit layout and PCB layout and production.
It's free too. I've used it with great success. Software is reliable and
does a nice job.
www.expresspcb.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Papendick
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program
--> <gandjpappy@aol.com>
I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in purchasing
an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was curious as to what
recommendations this list might have.
I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for small
circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at that point
I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can use at home
and that would produce acceptable boards.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
Greg
--
2:04 PM
--
2:04 PM
Message 12
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Subject: | Need low cost schematic program |
Hi,
For CAD work I've been using progeCAD LT 2006 (http://www.progecad.com/) -
which is a free (/ donationware) program and works well.
For PCB design work - I've ended up using Eagle (http://www.cadsoft.de/) -
it is a little clumbsy (UNIX X windows style interface) but once you get it
going works really well and well featured. The freeware version is limited
to 6" x 4" physical designs (but multi-layer).
Regards,
Carl
--
ZK-VII - RV 7A QB - finishing? - New Zealand
http://www.rvproject.gen.nz/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Papendick [mailto:gandjpappy@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, 15 January 2007 6:55 a.m.
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program
>
>
> <gandjpappy@aol.com>
>
> I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
> laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
> purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
> curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
>
> I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
> program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
> small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
> that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
> use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
>
> Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
>
> Greg
>
>
> --
> 13/01/2007 5:40 p.m.
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Need low cost schematic program |
TurboCAD. And it will convert coveted DWG. Files to be used in your
production drawings to boot.
John Cox
#40600
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Papendick
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 9:55 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program
<gandjpappy@aol.com>
I just ordered "The AeroElectric Connection" and am looking forward to
laying out the electrical system for my RV8. I am interested in
purchasing an inexpensive CAD program to document the system and was
curious as to what recommendations this list might have.
I am also interested if anyone has any recommendatons of a good software
program and process for designing and producting 2 sided boards for
small circuits. It has been 15 years since I designed circuits and at
that point I had a lab at my disposal. I am looking for something I can
use at home and that would produce acceptable boards.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations.
Greg
Message 14
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Subject: | Annunciator Panel FYI |
Greetings Nathan,
I would like to get a copy of the schematic for your panel. I don't think
I'm up to working with SMT components but I might try it with larger
components.
Thanks.
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al
Etherington
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator Panel FYI
<aletherington@rogers.com>
Nathan Ulrich wrote:
<nulrich@technq.com>
>
> Although it doesn't have nearly the features of Alan's proposed
annunciator,
> I built a custom annunciator panel for my Bonanza. It has 16 LED outputs,
13
> Stanley bar LEDs and 3 discrete LEDs for marker beacon lights (amber,
blue,
> white). Except for the marker beacon LEDs, each output can be driven by a
> low or high signal. It has a test button, of course. The circuitry is
pretty
> basic, mostly some surface mount transistors, diodes and resistors. It
dims
> at night by being connected to the dimmer circuit (switched by the nav
light
> switch).
>
> I designed and machined an aluminum housing for it, so that it mounts with
> six screws from behind the panel above my six pack. You can see a photo
at:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/nathantu
>
> The annunciator photo is near the bottom. I'd be glad to provide more info
> if anyone is interested...
>
> Nathan
>
>
Hi Nathan:
I saved your e-mail for a time when I wasn't so busy, thus the delay in
responding.
I would like a little more info on your annunciator. As I am somewhat
electronically challenged, your circuitry would be of particular
interest. Beautiful machining, by the way.
Thanks,
Al Etherington
Message 15
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Subject: | Re:Re: TSO's...and fuel level sensors |
Hey Bob,
Any more information available on the new AP system? Is it for the OBAM market?
Time: 12:45:07 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: TSO's...and fuel level sensors
I've been working an AP project where the hard-working
guts of the system holds GPS track to 1 degree of accuracy
and nothing more - 99% of everything you want an
autopilot to do. Less than a handfull of lines of code
in a $2 processor. ALL navigation bells and whistles are
offered as applications to run out of a hand-held.
The nav hardware sends "new course to make good" data
to the autopilot . . . and nothing more. If the bells
and whistles become troublesome, one can simply shut
them off without affecting the autopilot's stone-simple,
high-reliability task of keeping the dirty side down
and the pointy end aimed at your next waypoint.
I can't see any of the big name flight systems
folks taking this kind of approach. They'll consistently
dump all their tasks into one super-processor with
the attendant risks of having some whistle go off-key
and cripple the system's ability to do it's most
important tasks.
Only the OBAM aviation community can offer the close-
coupled supplier-consumer relationship necessary
to bypass bean-counters, process-and-procedure hacks
and certification inspectors so that a product may
evolve quickly in ways that benefit both the supplier
and the customer. The new paradigm is an information-
driven relationship between a capable supplier and
an informed, communicative customer. No amount
of regulation, certification or ISO9000 hat-dancing
can add value to an activity focused on capable and
willing suppliers offering the best they know how to
do to happy customers.
Bob . . .
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 12:21:04 PM PST US
From: "Terry Miles"
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wgt complexity and parts count vs running (+) wires
Bob,
I am looking at your example in the switch chapter on how I could use a 700
2-10 and wire Nav and Strobe lights. As I do this, I am mindful of keeping
things simple, but not at the risk of long power runs in the event of a post
accident short or loose wire or related risks.
I have an overhead switch panel in the Velocity I am building. When
possible I have tried to have those switches supply grounds (pin 85) to some
40 amp relays I got on Ebay from a Car Audio outlet that I will mount behind
the panel area.
The distance from the power fuse block to this o'head switch panel is about
8 feet one way. The load in question is a 1 amp (2 amp fuse) for the nav
light LEDs. (Not the strobe. It is fused at the control box.) Here is my
question.
Is there a good practices recommendation you might have given my choices are
an 8 foot run (+) power into my overhead panel over ground wire into the 700
2-10 switch that then requires two separate relays in nose.
Follow on question--if 1 amp loads (20awg) are OK, is there an amperage
break point where you would opt for remoted relays?
Thanks,
Terry
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 01:23:38 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wgt complexity and parts count vs running (+)
wires
At 02:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob,
>I am looking at your example in the switch chapter on how I could use a 700
>2-10 and wire Nav and Strobe lights. As I do this, I am mindful of keeping
>things simple, but not at the risk of long power runs in the event of a post
>accident short or loose wire or related risks.
Length of wire runs becomes a non-issue if the circuit is either
fused very lightly (5A or less) or is downstream of a DC power master
relay where it becomes "cold" as a result of preparation for landing
be it on or off-field.
>I have an overhead switch panel in the Velocity I am building. When
>possible I have tried to have those switches supply grounds (pin 85) to some
>40 amp relays I got on Ebay from a Car Audio outlet that I will mount behind
>the panel area.
>
>The distance from the power fuse block to this o'head switch panel is about
>8 feet one way. The load in question is a 1 amp (2 amp fuse) for the nav
>light LEDs. (Not the strobe. It is fused at the control box.) Here is my
>question.
We run power and control leads for distances as much as 50-60 feet
in some of our aircraft. As long as the wire gage is sufficiently
sized to offset voltage drop, there are no good reasons to add
relays EXCEPT to avoid having a LARGE switch in a row of otherwise
small switches or to avoid a LONG run of relatively fat wire (Larger
than 16 or 14 AWG).
>Is there a good practices recommendation you might have given my choices are
>an 8 foot run (+) power into my overhead panel over ground wire into the 700
>2-10 switch that then requires two separate relays in nose.
>
>Follow on question--if 1 amp loads (20awg) are OK, is there an amperage
>break point where you would opt for remoted relays?
Do your math. 20 AWG wire is 10 milliohms per foot and drops
10 millivolts per foot per amp. Assume total wire in
2A nav light circuit from bus to lamp and back to ground is
say 25 feet. 20AWG will drop 10 x 2 x 25 or 500 millivolts.
As a percentage of system voltage, this works out to 500/14000
or 3.5% . . . generally considered quite tolerable. 5% max is the
rule of thumb. I'll suggest your lowest cost of ownership and
highest reliability will happen when relays are used sparingly and
the S700 series switches perform happily at 7A continuous and
satisfactorily at 10A.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 01:54:32 PM PST US
From: Charles Brame
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder
I recently made up a BNC connector for an antenna lead. I have always
soldered the central conductor into the gold pin. My buddy suggested
that I crimp the connector rather than solder. I did, and it seems to
be okay. Crimping was certainly faster than soldering. What's the
approved method?
Today I was reading Bob's Aeroelectric Connection Chapter 18 on Audio
Systems. It showed a D-sub connector with all its little gold pins.
Again, I have always soldered Sub-D pins. Should they be soldered or
crimped?
I have made up many a Molex type connector and I've always crimped
its male/female pins. Would a drop of solder make them more secure?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 02:01:20 PM PST US
From: "Terry Miles"
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Wgt complexity and parts count vs running (+)
wires
Thank you, Sir.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Wgt complexity and parts count vs running
(+) wires
At 02:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob,
>I am looking at your example in the switch chapter on how I could use a 700
>2-10 and wire Nav and Strobe lights. As I do this, I am mindful of keeping
>things simple, but not at the risk of long power runs in the event of a
post
>accident short or loose wire or related risks.
Length of wire runs becomes a non-issue if the circuit is either
fused very lightly (5A or less) or is downstream of a DC power master
relay where it becomes "cold" as a result of preparation for landing
be it on or off-field.
>I have an overhead switch panel in the Velocity I am building. When
>possible I have tried to have those switches supply grounds (pin 85) to
some
>40 amp relays I got on Ebay from a Car Audio outlet that I will mount
behind
>the panel area.
>
>The distance from the power fuse block to this o'head switch panel is about
>8 feet one way. The load in question is a 1 amp (2 amp fuse) for the nav
>light LEDs. (Not the strobe. It is fused at the control box.) Here is my
>question.
We run power and control leads for distances as much as 50-60 feet
in some of our aircraft. As long as the wire gage is sufficiently
sized to offset voltage drop, there are no good reasons to add
relays EXCEPT to avoid having a LARGE switch in a row of otherwise
small switches or to avoid a LONG run of relatively fat wire (Larger
than 16 or 14 AWG).
>Is there a good practices recommendation you might have given my choices
are
>an 8 foot run (+) power into my overhead panel over ground wire into the
700
>2-10 switch that then requires two separate relays in nose.
>
>Follow on question--if 1 amp loads (20awg) are OK, is there an amperage
>break point where you would opt for remoted relays?
Do your math. 20 AWG wire is 10 milliohms per foot and drops
10 millivolts per foot per amp. Assume total wire in
2A nav light circuit from bus to lamp and back to ground is
say 25 feet. 20AWG will drop 10 x 2 x 25 or 500 millivolts.
As a percentage of system voltage, this works out to 500/14000
or 3.5% . . . generally considered quite tolerable. 5% max is the
rule of thumb. I'll suggest your lowest cost of ownership and
highest reliability will happen when relays are used sparingly and
the S700 series switches perform happily at 7A continuous and
satisfactorily at 10A.
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 02:21:00 PM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Crimp or Solder
At 03:53 PM 1/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I recently made up a BNC connector for an antenna lead. I have always
>soldered the central conductor into the gold pin. My buddy suggested
>that I crimp the connector rather than solder. I did, and it seems to
>be okay. Crimping was certainly faster than soldering. What's the
>approved method?
>
>Today I was reading Bob's Aeroelectric Connection Chapter 18 on Audio
>Systems. It showed a D-sub connector with all its little gold pins.
>Again, I have always soldered Sub-D pins. Should they be soldered or
>crimped?
what ever the manufacture of the connector recommends. You can
purchase both solder and crimp style connectors in most
technologies. I use mostly crimped pin connectors for ease of
installation, convenience and freedom from process-errors. In
terms of overall reliability, there is no difference between
soldered and crimped joints.
>I have made up many a Molex type connector and I've always crimped
>its male/female pins. Would a drop of solder make them more secure?
There have been TRILLIONS of pins installed per the recommendations
of the manufacturer with exceedingly low failure rates. Remember,
connector folks sell thousands to aircraft and billions to commercial
ventures. Names like Molex, AMP, Amphenol, T&B (just to name a few)
have been in this business for decades. The fact that they are still
in business must say something about the capabilities of their
products to meet customer expectations. Nonetheless, there's a host
of folks who don't understand how the products are designed to
work and they WORRY a lot about things that are not worthy of
the effort.
Buy the technology that appeals to you most (or accommodates your
tools and skills) and truck on. The whole solder-n-crimp or solder-
instead-of-crimp thing is floobydust.
See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/rules/review.html
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
=== message truncated ==
---------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
Vern Little wrote:
> <rv-9a-online@telus.net>
>
> Greg: Here is exactly what you need... it's free and very easy to use:
>
> http://www.expresspcb.com/
>
> Here is a schematic for my RV-9A, and a library of custom components:
>
> http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html
>
> Have fun.
>
> Vern Little
>
Vern, just a word of warning.
The difference between 'free' and 'open source' is that the program can
disappear, leaving a library of custom components worthless. Make sure
you make backups of your work in a format that is not proprietary.
I spent about a year learning to do 3D CAD with Pro/Desktop while the
tech industry was in the recent slump. I was nearly finished with a
complete rendition of a virtual Dyke Delta, when the makers of the
program decided that they were no longer interested in having people
learn to use their software for free. They were kind enough to give out
keys that enabled the software for 5yrs, but I quickly lost mine in a
harddrive crash. I still have the files, but they are useless without a
program to interpret them. I did convert a few of the parts to STEP
files, so they are usable in other programs, but most of the work has to
be written off as an 'educational' exercise. If I had taken an hour or
so to save each of the components in a more universal format I wouldn't
get a sick feeling whenever I look at those files.
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|
Subject: | Fat Capacitor Question |
I am thinking of putting a Fat capacitor between the E bus and ground. Idea is
if the E bus switch is open
and the battery is suppling power through the diode
and the voltage sags for a short time (300 milliseconds is what I
remember) when first engaging the starter
the capacitor would keep the voltage above 10 for the voltage
sensitive stuff that may reset.
2 questions:
Would this work?
It seems to introducing a single point failure for the shorted
capacitor case. Are todays electrolytic caps sufficiently robust to
mitigate the risk?
Thanks
Matthew M. Jurotich
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
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Subject: | 8AWG Wire to Fast-On Connection |
In order to keep the voltage drop down on a long 14 volt 30 amp run I
want to use 8 AWG wire. The final device has a male Fast-On terminal.
The only terminals I can find for 8 AWG wire are ring terminals, how do
I transition to a Fast-On?
Larry
RV-10
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Subject: | Re: Stone-simple, GPS course tracking wing leveler |
At 05:31 PM 1/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>>Hey Bob,
>>
>>Any more information available on the new AP system? Is it for the OBAM
>>market?
Yes. That's the project that took hold over a plate of tacos
back when I did the annunciator features survey. We were
talking about a variety of things to explore. The one that
generated the most excitement was the stone-simple-super-
accurate wing leveler.
It's not a front-burner project but yes, if it comes
to any state of flyable hardware, it will be available
only to the OBAM aviation market. Right now, the
alternator drive stand has to be my front burner
project for new development. But perhaps later this
year. We'll see what the GMC (gray matter consortium)
comes up with in the mean time.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Re: Need low cost schematic program |
At 09:35 PM 1/14/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
>Vern Little wrote:
>>
>>Greg: Here is exactly what you need... it's free and very easy to use:
>>
>>http://www.expresspcb.com/
>>
>>Here is a schematic for my RV-9A, and a library of custom components:
>>
>>http://vx-aviation.com/page_3.html
>>
>>Have fun.
>>
>>Vern Little
>Vern, just a word of warning.
>
>The difference between 'free' and 'open source' is that the program can
>disappear, leaving a library of custom components worthless. Make sure
>you make backups of your work in a format that is not proprietary.
>
>I spent about a year learning to do 3D CAD with Pro/Desktop while the tech
>industry was in the recent slump. I was nearly finished with a complete
>rendition of a virtual Dyke Delta, when the makers of the program decided
>that they were no longer interested in having people learn to use their
>software for free. They were kind enough to give out keys that enabled
>the software for 5yrs, but I quickly lost mine in a harddrive crash. I
>still have the files, but they are useless without a program to interpret
>them. I did convert a few of the parts to STEP files, so they are usable
>in other programs, but most of the work has to be written off as an
>'educational' exercise. If I had taken an hour or so to save each of the
>components in a more universal format I wouldn't get a sick feeling
>whenever I look at those files.
Most serious CAD programs are ambiformexerous . . . they'll input
and output a variety of popular formats. For example, my AutoCAD
.dwg files can be opened directly by a variety of competitive programs.
Further, I can save in .dxf and IGES formats that will transport the
drawings to other applications. It's good to research these capabilties
before you infest much $time$ in a CAD based documentation project.
Bob . . .
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Subject: | Wig Wag High Beams |
I saw a small Truck from Fire Department racing around tonight just bout
twilight, he had a Wig Wag system for his headlights that left low beams
on all the time and Wig Waged the High Beams.
Pretty neat.
If you have high and low beam, perhaps a consideration.
Ron Parigoris
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Subject: | Re: Secure connection to a diode? |
At 04:19 PM 1/13/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
>
>I don t have a schematic or wiring diagram. The application is a gear
>door sequencing system with a control box, gear switch, 10 micro switches,
>4 electrically controlled hydraulic valves and three diodes (1N5400, I
>think). All I got was a written description of how to wire all
>components. All wires are 20 AWG except power and ground.
>
>
>Diode A: Gear micro switch & control box pin 12---(diode)---gear switch &
>hyd valve A
>
>Diode B: Gear micro switch & control box pin 15---(diode)---gear switch &
>hyd valve B
>
>Diode C: Control box pin 2---(diode)---hyd valve D
>
>
>So how do I connect the diode leads in line to 20 AWG wire securely?
>
>
>I was wondering if there was a connector of some sort for that kind of
>application or if I should, as Bill Schlatterer suggested, solder them and
>then cover with two layers of heat shrink. His look really nice!
See http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Homeless/Homeless_Components.htm
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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Subject: | Re: 8AWG Wire to Fast-On Connection |
At 09:28 PM 1/14/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>In order to keep the voltage drop down on a long 14 volt 30 amp run I want
>to use 8 AWG wire. The final device has a male Fast-On terminal.
>The only terminals I can find for 8 AWG wire are ring terminals, how do I
>transition to a Fast-On?
Splice a 6" 10AWG stub on the end of the 8AWG wire
so that you can crimp a standard yellow (10-12AWG)
PIDG on the end.
30A is pushing a Fast-On pretty hard. What's your
application?
Bob . . .
---------------------------------------------------------
< What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >
< the authority which determines whether there can be >
< debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of >
< scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests >
< with experiment. >
< --Lawrence M. Krauss >
---------------------------------------------------------
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