---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/15/07: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Another 60A alternator, internally regulated voltage regulator failure (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 2. 06:54 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Jan de Jong) 3. 08:32 AM - larger wire fuselinks (Bill Boyd) 4. 10:24 AM - Re: larger wire fuselinks (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 10:24 AM - Re: larger wire fuselinks (Bill Boyd) 6. 10:30 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 10:57 AM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Roger Bentlage) 8. 03:57 PM - Annunciator schematic (Nathan Ulrich) 9. 04:53 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Richard Tasker) 10. 06:51 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 11. 06:51 PM - ExpressPCB was : Need low cost schematic program (Ed Anderson) 12. 06:59 PM - Re: Fat Capacitor Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 13. 07:07 PM - Serial input transponders? (Dr. Andrew Elliott) 14. 07:10 PM - Re: Need low cost schematic program (Ed Anderson) 15. 08:13 PM - Re: Serial input transponders? (William Gill) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:30 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Another 60A alternator, internally regulated voltage regulator failure 14824 What's the URL that you can get maintenance/recall history on parts? thx, lucky -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Bill Boyd" > > Lucky, mind sharing the part # on the alternator? It might be the > same as the Geo Metro 55A machine I just installed (I'd have to pull > the cowl to look) but I'd like to know if it had a significant OV > failure mode history. > > Thanks, > > -Bill B > > On 1/8/07, lucky wrote: > > > > My update. I bought an alternator from Autozone that matched the > > suzuki/chevrolet automobile replacement alternator often quoted to be the > > same as Van's 60 amp internally regulated alternator even though the part > > number was just slightly different. I could not tell a difference from the > > outside though their computer said 55 amp and not 60 amp. It has a > > Nippondenso internal fan and a hotline of 800 228 9672. > > > > In the install manual, it has a CAUTION: A defective or discharged battery > > can damage your new alternator. > > > > But the reason my alternator may have failed is that there was one of the > > feet on the alternator was cracked clean through. Though it was still > > rigidly mounted that had to set up some fun vibration within the alternator > > itself. Don't know if that actually was a cause for the battery to fail as > > opposed to the opposite hypothesis I was banting about. > > > > Fun stuff. I still have the magic alternator killing odyssey pc680 battery > > I removed if anyone has a Van's 60amp alternator they want to test for > > kill..... ;-) > > > > Next task is to replace the high intensify landing/taxi light bulbs that > > burned out when turned on with 18 volts on the bus.... > > > > lucky > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > From: Ken > > > > > > > > For years I was skeptical too that a weak battery would hasten > > > alternator death. However eventually I developed a few thoughts on why > > > there may be some truth to this in automobiles. > > > > > > 1. Higher longer charging does tend to make the alternator run hotter > > > and some internal VR alternators are not well cooled. Any vehicle that > > > is started with jumper cables is about to ask for a serious effort from > > > its charging system. > > > > > > 2. Installing a new but partly charged battery may stress the alternator > > > even higher than ever as it charges the battery at max current for an > > > extended period. An old alternator just may not be up to the ef fort. > > > Maybe the brushes are worn or maybe the solid state devices get hotter > > > than they have for awhile. Certainly the cooling of old greasy/dirty > > > components is not as good as on a clean new unit. I'm not sure that a > > > test stand is going to successfully imitate the service environment that > > > I'm thinking of. This might explain death shortly after the new battery > > > is installed though. > > > > > > 3. Weak "maintenance free" batteries are sometimes low on electrolyte. I > > > think that further reduces their capacity to absorb any excess voltage > > > or current and might lead to more voltage excursions. Most people never > > > pop the caps off automobile batteries any more as it is often not > > > obvious how to do it, or that it can be done. It seems that my little > > > (8AH) AGM batteries will accept very little current initially when fully > > > discharged. > > > > > > 4. As a WAG another contrib ution might be abnormal operation while > > > fooling around with a weak battery. If I leave the ignition/key on with > > > my ND IR alternator on my aircraft without starting the engine, the > > > alternator does draw several amps of field current and it will heat up > > > quite noticeably with no cooling airflow. > > > > > > Anyway my personal rule now is to change out any suspicious battery with > > > a new FULLY charged unit and I can sometimes send the vehicle to the > > > wreckers with the original alternator. I do run weak batteries in my > > > tractor but that has an external homemade VR that hangs out in the > > > breeze (like the alternator) and everything runs very very cool ;) > > > > > > Ken > > > > > > >> SNIP> > > > >> I had heard that a "weak" battery can damage the alternator/regulator > > > >> so this seamed to have validated that statement. For sure though, > > > >> from my observations , the battery appeared to go bad first then 2 > > > >> hours later after a new battery was installed the regulator seems to > > > >> have failed. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm skeptical of such claims. Consider how many batteries > > > > you've replaced in cars without having to replace the alternator > > > > too. > > > > > > > > I've "killed" a few alternators in various test situations > > > > but all failures involved either loss of cooling or mechanical > > > > issues such as bearing or shear-shaft failures. > > > > > > > > The way to "test" a weak-battery-kills-alternators hypothesis is > > > > to separate the two components and then craft a test plan designed > > > > to kill an alternator. In other words, if I had a brand new > > > > alternator and a charter to damage it in some way on the test > > > > stand, what kinds of abuses might I heap upon the unsuspecting > > > ; > device to bring about its untimely demise? > > > > > > > > Once such a test plan is devised, then deduce how battery > > > > behavior mimics any of the abuses you've crafted for the > > > > purpose of killing an alternator. > > > > > > > > I'd be interested in anyone's ideas as to how you might go > > > > about it. Alternators are inherently self current limiting. > > > > Given sufficient cooling air, you cannot "overload" one to > > > > destruction. Alternator diodes are robust and will withstand > > > > reverse voltage transients many times greater than system voltage. > > > > It's the regulators that are most vulnerable to a load-dump > > > > event and that's been demonstrated by several builders using > > > > Van's (and perhaps other) alternators combined with b-lead > > > > contactor controls. > > > > > > > > I'm not suggesting that battery condition might not be a bit-player > > & gt; > in a scenario that's hard on alternators. For example: > > > > I can see how the "weak battery" thing might have morphed into > > > > a cause/effect for alternator failure where someone knows that > > > > having a battery be disconnected from the alternator at the same > > > > time all loads are removed causes a potentially hazardous > > > > over-shoot. One might deduce that a "weak" battery has > > > > lost its ability to mitigate a load-dump events thereby > > > > placing the alternator at-risk. > > > > > > > > If this hypothesis were in play for your situation, the alternator > > > > seems most likely to have failed while the "weak" battery was > > > > in place. Certainly having a "strong" new battery in place totally > > > > eliminates the risk for hazardous transients during ordinary > > > > system load reductions. > > > > > > > > This could be hypothetically thrashed for d ays bu > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List > > > > > > > > > >
14824
 
What's the URL that you can get maintenance/recall history on parts?
 
thx,
lucky
 
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r@gmail.com>

> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Bill Boyd"
>
> Lucky, mind sharing the part # on the alternator? It might be the
> same as the Geo Metro 55A machine I just installed (I'd have to pull
> the cowl to look) but I'd like to know if it had a significant OV
> failure mode history.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Bill B
>
> On 1/8/07, lucky wrote:
> >
> > My update. I bought an alternator from Autozone that matched the
> > suzuki/chevrolet automobile replacement alternator often quoted to be the
> > same as Van's 60 amp internally regulated alternator even though the part
> > number was just slightly different. I could not tell a difference from the
> > outside though their computer said 55 amp and not 60 amp. It has a
> > Nippondenso internal fan and a hotline of 800 228 9672.
> >
> > In the install manual, it has a CAUTION: A defective or discharged battery
> > can damage your new alternator.
> >
> > But the reason my alternator may have failed is that there was one of the
> > feet on the alternator was cracked clean through. Though it was still
> > rigidly mounted that had to set up some fun vibration within the alternator
> > itself. Don't know if that actually was a cause for the battery to fail as
> > opposed to the opposite hypothesis I was banting about.
> >
> > Fun stuff. I still have the magic alternator killing odyssey pc680 battery
> > I removed if anyone has a Van's 60amp alternator they want to test for
> > kill..... ;-)
> >
> > Next task is to replace the high intensify landing/taxi light bulbs that
> > burned out when turned on with 18 volts on the bus....
> >
> > lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Ken
> >
> > > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken
> > >
> > > For years I was skeptical too that a weak battery would hasten
> > > alternator death. However eventually I developed a few thoughts on why
> > > there may be some truth to this in automobiles.
> > >
> > > 1. Higher longer charging does tend to make the alternator run hotter
> > > and some internal VR alternators are not well cooled. Any vehicle that
> > > is started with jumper cables is about to ask for a serious effort from
> > > its charging system.
> > >
> > > 2. Installing a new but partly charged battery may stress the alternator
> > > even higher than ever as it charges the battery at max current for an
> > > extended period. An old alternator just may not be up to the ef fort.
> > > Maybe the brushes are worn or maybe the solid state devices get hotter
> > > than they have for awhile. Certainly the cooling of old greasy/dirty
> > > components is not as good as on a clean new unit. I'm not sure that a
> > > test stand is going to successfully imitate the service environment that
> > > I'm thinking of. This might explain death shortly after the new battery
> > > is installed though.
> > >
> > > 3. Weak "maintenance free" batteries are sometimes low on electrolyte. I
> > > think that further reduces their capacity to absorb any excess voltage
> > > or current and migh t lead to more voltage excursions. Most people never
> > > pop the caps off automobile batteries any more as it is often not
> > > obvious how to do it, or that it can be done. It seems that my little
> > > (8AH) AGM batteries will accept very little current initially when fully
> > > discharged.
> > >
> > > 4. As a WAG another contrib ution might be abnormal operation while
> > > fooling around with a weak battery. If I leave the ignition/key on with
> > > my ND IR alternator on my aircraft without starting the engine, the
> > > alternator does draw several amps of field current and it will heat up
> > > quite noticeably with no cooling airflow.
> > >
> > > Anyway my personal rule now is to change out any suspicious battery with
> > > a new FULLY charged unit and I can sometimes send the vehicle to the
> > ; > wreckers with the original alternator. I do run weak batteries in my
> > > tractor but that has an external homemade VR that hangs out in the
> > > breeze (like the alternator) and everything runs very very cool ;)
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > >> SNIP>
> > > >> I had heard that a "weak" battery can damage the alternator/regulator
> > > >> so this seamed to have validated that statement. For sure though,
> > > >> from my observations , the battery appeared to go bad first then 2
> > > >> hours later after a new battery was installed the regulator seems to
> > > >> have failed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm skeptical of such claims. Consider how many batteries
> > > > you've replaced in cars without having to replace the alternator
&g t; > ; > > too.
> > > >
> > > > I've "killed" a few alternators in various test situations
> > > > but all failures involved either loss of cooling or mechanical
> > > > issues such as bearing or shear-shaft failures.
> > > >
> > > > The way to "test" a weak-battery-kills-alternators hypothesis is
> > > > to separate the two components and then craft a test plan designed
> > > > to kill an alternator. In other words, if I had a brand new
> > > > alternator and a charter to damage it in some way on the test
> > > > stand, what kinds of abuses might I heap upon the unsuspecting
> > > ; > device to bring about its untimely demise?
> > > >
> > > > Once such a test plan is devised, then deduce how battery
> > > > behavior mimics any of the abuses you've crafte d for the
> > > > purpose of killing an alternator.
> > > >
> > > > I'd be interested in anyone's ideas as to how you might go
> > > > about it. Alternators are inherently self current limiting.
> > > > Given sufficient cooling air, you cannot "overload" one to
> > > > destruction. Alternator diodes are robust and will withstand
> > > > reverse voltage transients many times greater than system voltage.
> > > > It's the regulators that are most vulnerable to a load-dump
> > > > event and that's been demonstrated by several builders using
> > > > Van's (and perhaps other) alternators combined with b-lead
> > > > contactor controls.
> > > >
> > > > I'm not suggesting that battery condition might not be a bit-player
> > & gt; > in a scenario that's hard on alternat ors. F or example:
> > > > I can see how the "weak battery" thing might have morphed into
> > > > a cause/effect for alternator failure where someone knows that
> > > > having a battery be disconnected from the alternator at the same
> > > > time all loads are removed causes a potentially hazardous
> > > > over-shoot. One might deduce that a "weak" battery has
> > > > lost its ability to mitigate a load-dump events thereby
> > > > placing the alternator at-risk.
> > > >
> > > > If this hypothesis were in play for your situation, the alternator
> > > > seems most likely to have failed while the "weak" battery was
> > > > in place. Certainly having a "strong" new battery in place totally
> > > > eliminates the risk for hazardous transients during ordinary
> > > > system load reduc tions.
&g t;
>



________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:19 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program It seems that ExpressPCB output format is proprietary - no Gerber files - and not supported by other prototype PCB makers. A possible consideration. Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:39 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: AeroElectric-List: larger wire fuselinks Bob- your site says to contact you for fabrication of larger fuselinks than 20 or 22 AWG. I'm going to need an 8 AWG fuselink in my 4 AWG starter/alternator B+ wire. Pointers, please? -Bill B ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:10 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: larger wire fuselinks At 11:31 AM 1/15/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob- your site says to contact you for fabrication of larger >fuselinks than 20 or 22 AWG. > >I'm going to need an 8 AWG fuselink in my 4 AWG starter/alternator B+ >wire. Pointers, please? Use an ANL or MAX-inline fuse holder. Fusible links should not be applied to uses other than those illustrated and sized in the Z-figures. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:11 AM PST US From: "Bill Boyd" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: larger wire fuselinks I'm sorry, that should read, the 8AWG run from the alternator to the PM starter solenoid lug needs a 12 AWG fuselink; can you advise how best to construct one? The run from the battery to the starter is obviously protected by the battery contactor; my fault for not having the schematic open in front of me as I wrote the querry. -Bill On 1/15/07, Bill Boyd wrote: > Bob- your site says to contact you for fabrication of larger > fuselinks than 20 or 22 AWG. > > I'm going to need an 8 AWG fuselink in my 4 AWG starter/alternator B+ > wire. Pointers, please? > > -Bill B > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:01 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program At 03:53 PM 1/15/2007 +0100, you wrote: > >It seems that ExpressPCB output format is proprietary - no Gerber files - >and not supported by other prototype PCB makers. >A possible consideration. >Jan de Jong Correct . . . but after years of doing business with them (and considering/using a variety of options) their pricing and service for the low volume OBAM aircraft market has over-ridden these concerns. It's exceedingly unlikely that anyone on the List is going to regret having used ExpressPCB because of a future wish to have a few thousand boards fabricated. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:57:37 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Need low cost schematic program From: "Roger Bentlage" A number of programs are available for free download at: http://www.freecad.com/cgi-bin/dcd/html/CAD_Programs___General_Purpose/ I use a purchased copy of EasyCAD for basic 2-axis stuff (wiring diagrams) because of its simplicity. I use A9CAD, downloadable free from the above site, for more complex applications. It's comfortable with AutoCAD output. Attached is a copy of my dual batt, dual alt, all electric RV-7. Criticisms are welcome. Roger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=87817#87817 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:57:56 PM PST US From: "Nathan Ulrich" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Annunciator schematic Al: Unfortunately, I don't have a schematic, I kind of winged it a little bit since the circuit is so easy. I'm only a *mechanical* engineer, after all ;). I'd be glad to share the ExpressPCB layout file with anyone who is interested. Just send me your email address. Nathan --- Begin forwarded message --- Hi Nathan: I saved your e-mail for a time when I wasn't so busy, thus the delay in responding. I would like a little more info on your annunciator. As I am somewhat electronically challenged, your circuitry would be of particular interest. Beautiful machining, by the way. Thanks, Al Etherington ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:45 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program True, but why compromise on a proprietary format when you can get Eagle for free and do any layouts up to 4" x 6" with schematic capture and Gerber outputs usable by any PCB house. http://www.cadsoft.de/ Dick Tasker Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > > At 03:53 PM 1/15/2007 +0100, you wrote: > >> >> >> It seems that ExpressPCB output format is proprietary - no Gerber >> files - and not supported by other prototype PCB makers. >> A possible consideration. >> Jan de Jong > > > Correct . . . but after years of doing business with > them (and considering/using a variety of options) their > pricing and service for the low volume OBAM aircraft > market has over-ridden these concerns. > > It's exceedingly unlikely that anyone on the List is > going to regret having used ExpressPCB because of a > future wish to have a few thousand boards fabricated. > > > Bob . . . > > > --------------------------------------------------------- > < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > > < the authority which determines whether there can be > > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > > < with experiment. > > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > > --------------------------------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:53 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program At 07:52 PM 1/15/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >True, but why compromise on a proprietary format when you can get Eagle >for free and do any layouts up to 4" x 6" with schematic capture and >Gerber outputs usable by any PCB house. http://www.cadsoft.de/ > >Dick Tasker . . . is there a fab house that inputs Gerber plots that will do 5-day turnaround prototypes for $51 + 2nd day air? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:53 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: ExpressPCB was : AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program While I have been a satisfied customer of ExpressPCB for a number of years and think they are indeed a great PCB provider, I have lately found some of there limitations - well, rather limiting. I have decided to convert my project design from through-hole to surface Mount (ugh! those components are almost invisible!). In order to keep my sanity, I decided that using a stencil to lay on the bare board for a limited number of units would be an ideal way to go. This stencil is simply a thin metal (or plastic) sheet with holes very precisely cut to fit over those component pads you wish to have a solder paste deposited on. So you put the paste on the stencil and use a squeegee to pull the paste across all the holes in the stencil thereby depositing the solder paste only where you are going to put a component. Then you use a magnifying glass and tweezers to put the tiny components on their pads and pop them into an oven and voila (if everything goes right) you have a solder surface mount board. Now the problem is that ExpressPCB does not offer the stencil service, furthermore most firms offering the stencil service require a set of Gerber files (normal CAD output of most PC board software). You can not directly produce one from the ExpressPCB software. You must pay an additional $60 for a Gerber file from ExpressPCB. This is the file that EAGLE and some of the other readily available PC board software produces that file as a normal course. So $60 just seems a bit much when there are package that produce it free. A PCB software package that produces such non-proprietary Gerber files also give you a much greater range of service providers including all the way to China (very nice prices if you can stand the transportation delay). So I believe, as Bob pointed out - it all depends on what your needs are. For one of a kind, or a few, ExpressPCB offers a valued service at a reasonable price. Up to now, I have used no other. But, some of their limitations in face of my current needs are causing me to reconsider. FWF Ed Ed Anderson Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson@carolina.rr.com http://members.cox.net/rogersda/rotary/configs.htm#N494BW http://www.dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Tasker" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:52 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program > > > True, but why compromise on a proprietary format when you can get Eagle > for free and do any layouts up to 4" x 6" with schematic capture and > Gerber outputs usable by any PCB house. http://www.cadsoft.de/ > > Dick Tasker > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> >> >> At 03:53 PM 1/15/2007 +0100, you wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> It seems that ExpressPCB output format is proprietary - no Gerber >>> files - and not supported by other prototype PCB makers. >>> A possible consideration. >>> Jan de Jong >> >> >> Correct . . . but after years of doing business with >> them (and considering/using a variety of options) their >> pricing and service for the low volume OBAM aircraft >> market has over-ridden these concerns. >> >> It's exceedingly unlikely that anyone on the List is >> going to regret having used ExpressPCB because of a >> future wish to have a few thousand boards fabricated. >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > >> < the authority which determines whether there can be > >> < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > >> < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > >> < with experiment. > >> < --Lawrence M. Krauss > >> --------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:13 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fat Capacitor Question At 09:33 PM 1/14/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >I am thinking of putting a Fat capacitor between the E bus and >ground. Idea is > >if the E bus switch is open >and the battery is suppling power through the diode >and the voltage sags for a short time (300 milliseconds is what I >remember) when first engaging the starter > >the capacitor would keep the voltage above 10 for the voltage sensitive >stuff that may reset. >2 questions: >Would this work? Sure. In fact it's been done. The quick-n-dirty design tool takes notice of the fact that a 1F capacitor discharged at 1A will fall at 1V per second. So, assuming the system you're protecting draws 3A. Assume further you want to keep the voltage from falling below 10v with a start from 12v. Assume further that you want to support the device for 1/2 second. A/F = V/S 3/F = 2/0.5 3/F = 4 F = 0.75 Farads That's a FAT capacitor. You can buy 1F caps popular with the folks who like to install ear-crusher audio systems in their vehicles. See: http://tinyurl.com/tvrtx The capacitor can get small by reducing supported current, reducing support-time or allowing a greater voltage drop during inrush transient. If your system will benefit from some form of transient isolation system, I think you'll find that a small battery is a much better energy storage device. The smallest of SVLA batteries can be isolated from the rest of the system during a few seconds of cranking time. The installed weight and volume will be smaller but there will be a preventative maintenance issue for the AUX battery. In this case, AUX battery capacity is not a big issue ASSUMING that its only task is to mitigate cranking inrush brownout. This means that you could run it until it fails to support the protected system. I've used some FAT caps for similar tasks but they have some special integration issues. You can't just hook these critters to a battery to charge them . . . charging currents are very high and tends to burn switches. You need to develop a special current limited charging circuit to avoid the stress. Super caps are going to REPLACE batteries in our airplanes in the foreseeable future. But using a FAT cap to replace a small sealed lead-acid battery in this application is problematic. Bob . . . --------------------------------------------------------- < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that > < the authority which determines whether there can be > < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of > < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests > < with experiment. > < --Lawrence M. Krauss > --------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:32 PM PST US From: "Dr. Andrew Elliott" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Serial input transponders? Gang: I am planning a minimalist glass cockpit, and find that my EFIS will output serial altitude data directly. Anyone have a list of which transponders will accept serial input? I know that the Garmin GTX-327 does. What about the -320A? What about any of the new NARCO boxes? Becker? Microair? Others? (Keep in the in range of $2000=B1 GA units. I know that the fancier $datalink$ units all do.) The serial-Gillman converter is about $250, which gives me some lattitude in selecting a slightly pricier serial-compatible unit.) Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:24 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program Hi Bob, Here is a site that offers 5 boards for as low as $13 per board, 5 day turnaround. I have not yet used them (as I have not yet mastered Eagle PCB software to the point of producing a board), but I will certainly give them a try in the future. http://ecommerce.pcbfabexpress.com/index.jsp Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:30 PM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Need low cost schematic program > > > At 07:52 PM 1/15/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >> >> >>True, but why compromise on a proprietary format when you can get Eagle >>for free and do any layouts up to 4" x 6" with schematic capture and >>Gerber outputs usable by any PCB house. http://www.cadsoft.de/ >> >>Dick Tasker > > . . . is there a fab house that inputs Gerber plots > that will do 5-day turnaround prototypes for $51 + 2nd > day air? > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:12 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Serial input transponders? Dr. Elliott, Negative on the 320/320A. Dynon produces a serial-to-parallel converter if that helps. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dr. Andrew Elliott Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 9:06 PM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Serial input transponders? Gang: I am planning a minimalist glass cockpit, and find that my EFIS will output serial altitude data directly. Anyone have a list of which transponders will accept serial input? I know that the Garmin GTX-327 does. What about the -320A? What about any of the new NARCO boxes? Becker? Microair? Others? (Keep in the in range of $2000=B1 GA units. I know that the fancier $datalink$ units all do.) The serial-Gillman converter is about $250, which gives me some lattitude in selecting a slightly pricier serial-compatible unit.) Thanks, Andy Elliott, Mesa, AZ N601GE (reserved) 601XL/TD/QB, Corvair, building... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.