Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:19 AM - Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 05:25 AM - Re: Plane Power (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:25 AM - Charging Dual Batteries (Bill Bradburry)
4. 05:35 AM - Re: the fellowship of the list (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 05:38 AM - Re: Fusible link question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:15 AM - Handheld Radios (John and Kim Lumkes)
7. 06:26 AM - Re: Charging Dual Batteries (Glaeser, Dennis A)
8. 06:41 AM - Re: Charging Dual Batteries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 06:58 AM - Handheld Radios (BobsV35B@aol.com)
10. 07:01 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Michael T. Ice)
11. 07:04 AM - Contactor (Sam Marlow)
12. 07:07 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Dave N6030X)
13. 07:11 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
14. 07:18 AM - intercom & headset kits (paul wilson)
15. 07:19 AM - Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???) (David A. Leonard)
16. 07:24 AM - Contactor (BobsV35B@aol.com)
17. 07:34 AM - Re: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???) (Ed Anderson)
18. 07:43 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
19. 07:51 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Steve Ruse)
20. 08:00 AM - Re: Contactor (Sam Marlow)
21. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . . (C Smith)
22. 08:24 AM - Contactor (BobsV35B@aol.com)
23. 08:31 AM - Re: Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
24. 08:33 AM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
25. 08:38 AM - Re: Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
26. 08:44 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (JOHN TIPTON)
27. 08:52 AM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Kenneth Melvin)
28. 09:00 AM - Sierra Electrical Problem ()
29. 09:00 AM - Elegant solutions for storage of junque? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
30. 09:11 AM - Re: Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
31. 10:08 AM - Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? (Ernest Christley)
32. 10:43 AM - Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 11:24 AM - Re: Handheld Radios (Dawson, Bill)
34. 12:05 PM - Re: Sierra Electrical Problem (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
35. 12:23 PM - Z-13/8 Switch Question (George Jenson)
36. 12:46 PM - Re: Contactor (6440 Auto Parts)
37. 12:52 PM - Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? (Chuck Jensen)
38. 01:32 PM - Re: Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
39. 01:46 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
40. 01:47 PM - Re: Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
41. 02:51 PM - Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question (George Jenson)
42. 02:54 PM - Re: Contactor (6440 Auto Parts)
43. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
44. 03:49 PM - Re: Contactor (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
45. 04:37 PM - Re: Handheld Radios (Charlie England)
46. 04:37 PM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Charlie England)
47. 04:38 PM - Connecting hand-held to ships antenna (kesleyelectric)
48. 04:55 PM - Re: Handheld Radios (Bill Maxwell)
49. 05:39 PM - Re: Handheld Radios (Bill Settle)
50. 06:03 PM - Re: Connecting hand-held to ships antenna (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
51. 06:40 PM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Ron Shannon)
52. 06:57 PM - Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held ()
53. 07:09 PM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Kelly McMullen)
54. 07:15 PM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Dave N6030X)
55. 07:32 PM - Re: intercom & headset kits (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question |
At 08:08 AM 1/30/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>When your goal is to get it done, I always tell my engineers the same thing:
>
>"Don't build what you can buy, and don't buy what you can steal".
>
>It's very rare I can resolve a problem more effeciently than purchasing
>someone else's canned, tested and mass produced solution. I tell them to
>let other companies concentrate on the support widgets...we'll concentrate
>on the REAL problems.
Sure . . . but you do allude to "real" problems as opposed
to what I might infer are "unreal"? There's little value - perhaps
only losses of $time$ to be realized by re-inventing useful
and already optimized wheels. These are the old-growth.
Trunks and branches that are already in place and have
stood the test of time. Your real engineering takes place
out at the tips of the branches where new-growth is
expected to take place. Things that happen here cannot
be purchased elsewhere because the goals of that work do
not yet exist.
The corporate cultures upon which we're doing critical
review exhibit virtually no new intellectual growth. Whether
for lack of resources (water, nutrients, sunshine) or is simply
pruned off with some notion that doing so "conserves
resources" for growth at the bottom line. While the practice
appears fiscally efficient, it overlooks or ignores the
fact that one of the resources needed for new grown comes
in the form of talent from a relatively small segment
of the total work force. Talent that either stagnates and
becomes crippled or simply leaves to find more meaningful and
satisfying endeavors.
When you do the make-or=buy decision on your OBAM aircraft
project there are two, independent and unrelated forcing
functions at play. (1) get it done with the minimum investment
$time$ (the MBA approach) or (2) take an opportunity to
encourage some new growth that starts with personal achievement
and just might ultimately be reflected in the finished project
(the skunk werks approach). The second path is never efficient
in terms of $time$ compared to the first and never a sure bet.
Further, there is probably an exceedingly poor return
on investment even on a successful project UNLESS that
new-growth becomes part of the trunks and branches of
other folks projects. Your achievements may become
the "already invented wheels" for other folks projects.
Only then can the potential for a healthy fiscal return
on investment be realized. But for many, fiscal returns
are not the goal. It is enough to know that your
efforts have produced a useful variation on the art
and science of OBAM aircraft development. "I did it and
I like it" is sufficient.
Bob . . .
Message 2
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At 09:56 PM 1/30/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Bob: You wrote "In a nutshell, Steve tells us that the 5A breaker
>illustrated in their wiring diagram at . . .
><http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf>http://plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI70%20Wiring.pdf
>. . .
>does carry field excitation current. Further, the OV
>protection module does pull down on this breaker to
>"crowbar" it open and bring a misbehaving alternator to heel."
>
>All I can say is halleluiah!!!! Spelling??? ;>)
Yup, it comes out the same in any language.
This product appears to meet design goals
consistent with seamless integration into
traditional aircraft architectures and
operating philosophies.
Having passed that milestone, it remains for
these new kids on the block to earn their
merit badges in product performance and customer
satisfaction. Frankly, this can be a much
taller hurdle than meeting design goals.
I do wish them well and will offer to assist
where ever practical and appropriate.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Charging Dual Batteries |
Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have
anything feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will
slowly be discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it
will not be hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine
battery contactor is closed.
Somebody please 'splain this to me??
What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the
contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long??
Thanks,
Bill B
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: the fellowship of the list |
At 09:51 PM 1/30/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I had a super math teacher two years in high school. I went back twenty
>years later and ran into him. I told him sincerely that he was the best
>math teacher I ever had. It was obvious it made his day.
Dr. Dee has been teaching at the college level for
a relatively short time but even now, she will occasionally
come home cruising 6-inches off the floor. She'll then
relate some experience with a past student who has taken
the time to express their appreciation and enthusiasm
for what they acquired in her class.
This ladies and gentlemen is a return on investment
that every teacher appreciates above all else. If you'd
like to see their energy and resolve sustained so that
good work is continued, your feedback is an important
constituent in the nutrients needed for personal
new-growth. I was exceedingly fortunate to realize
the benefits I received from my teachers early on.
For some of us, the realizations may come much later.
The 'net's research tools are pretty powerful for finding
people. Go find your best teachers and stroke them a
'bit. You'll both feel better for it.
Bob . . .
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Fusible link question |
At 10:21 PM 1/30/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Can a fusible link be included in a wire bundle, or is it better practice
>to keep it separate from a bundle? I'm wiring up fuse blocks; the fusible
>link, as shown in Z-1, is in the wire that connects the main buss terminal
>to the master switch.
>
>Thanks for any info.
I do not recommend the use of fusible links in any locations
other than those illustrated in the drawings. If fabricated
as suggested with the fiberglass sleeve, they may be tied
into bundles with other wires. The sleeve contains the
potential for propagating damage to other wires.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 6
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The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld
made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions
does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio.
My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I
am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The
radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna,
headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting
location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on
a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup,
and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these
features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of
the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology,
lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades.
Thanks,
John
Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Charging Dual Batteries |
I don't think you're missing anything -
I'm using the essentially the Z19 architecture and plan to keep both
contactors closed all the time for normal operations, so both batteries
are charged by the alternator.
My procedure for alternator failure is: E-Bus Switch ON, both Masters
OFF. This isolates the batteries and lets them independently power the
items connected to their hot busses.
Dennis Glaeser
-----------------------------------------------
Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have
anything feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will
slowly be discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it
will not be hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine
battery contactor is closed.
Somebody please 'splain this to me??
What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the
contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long??
Thanks,
Bill B
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Charging Dual Batteries |
At 08:27 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>
>Am I missing something? It seems to me that, on Z19, if you have anything
>feeding from the engine battery buss, the engine battery will slowly be
>discharged unless you close the contactor. It appears that it will not be
>hooked to the alternator and charged unless the engine battery contactor
>is closed.
>Somebody please 'splain this to me??
>What would be the operating technique if it doesn't charge? Close the
>contactor periodically? If so how often and for how long??
Any time an alternator is running and the
low voltage warning light is out, then
ALL battery contactors on ALL architectures
are closed.
Only when engine driven power sources are
not available does one go to Plan-B. The
details of this plan varies depending on the
specific architecture. When the low voltage
light comes on, you then move to a pre-planned
activity that maximizes utilization of a
scarce but hopefully well quantified resource -
energy in the battery(ies).
Your time aloft in the endurance mode is calculated
and then perhaps demonstrated under Plan-B which
will probably call for all battery contactors to
be open in for the en route phase of flight with
perhaps some closure of contactors during the approach
to landing phase . . . depending on what conveniences
can be added without jeopardizing a comfortable
arrival with the earth.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
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Good Morning John,
Why not just scratch the Navigation portion?
I bought the communication only version of my last handheld because it has
bigger lettering which is easier for my old eyes to read.
If you are VFR only, you are very likely going to be flying occasionally at
altitudes and in places where VOR reception is poor. GPS is much better
almost all of the time.
For emergency back up, carry a second or third GPS!
I am not familiar with all of the products now available in the market, but
I bought a Garmin E-trex several years ago for less than a hundred bucks. It
has the same chip as the fifteen thousand dollar units.
It will tell you within one hundred feet where you are anywhere on the
planet earth. Beats the devil out of any VOR based unit.
Chances are there are better and cheaper units available now than there were
back then.
If you do go down in the boonies and are capable of getting out of your
machine, the handheld radio will allow you a good chance of being able to contact
somebody on 121.5 and the handheld GPS will allow you to tell the rescuers
where you are.
I carry a small leather bag that contains a basic GPS, an extra I-Com with a
AA battery pack and a large supply of batteries for both.
That bag, and clothing suitable for the area being overflown, should provide
very good potential for early and successful rescue.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to carry the bag on automobile trips!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/31/2007 8:20:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
lumkes@msoe.edu writes:
The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld
made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does
this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My
flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am
leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio
would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset
adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since
I
plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or
similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have
read, that already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a
handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary
COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible
in terms of future options or upgrades.
Thanks,
John
Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
John,
I used to fly a 1946 Taylorcraft with no electrical system. I used it for "fish
spotting" and having radio's were mandatory. I used a hand held exclusively,
I built a holder for it and used a head set and PTT and it worked great. I finally
got tired of the stupid little battery going dead and wired in a wheel chair
battery and that took care of that problem.
So, for a com radio a hand held is great (IMHO) and with the external antenna you
won't have any trouble talking to ATC.
Mike Ice
Anchorage, Alaska
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Kim Lumkes
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 5:14 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios
The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld made
me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions does this
group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio. My flying
would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning
towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be
"hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and
external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since I plan on
having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the
NAV portion of the radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that
already might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld.
Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper,
newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of
future options or upgrades.
Thanks,
John
Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
Message 11
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I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there
is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for
the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp
just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better,
such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic
Jones web site?
Thanks,
Sam Marlow
RV10 wiring
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
Hi John,
Here's my 2 cents worth:
It's going to depend on what kind of flying you do. If you fly in or
around controlled airspace that requires you to be in contact with
ATC, or if you plan to do a lot of cross country flying with Flight
Following, then you're going to find the handheld to be
inconvenient. If you don't expect to be doing much talking to
controllers, then it might be a better deal.
Here's why: As you are cruising along at 8500 feet chatting with
your friend in the seat next to you or listening to tunes on your
iPod, suddenly ATC will pop in and say "Barnstormer 34 Xray contact
Lubbock Approach one two six point niner five goodday". Now, you
only have a scant few seconds to respond, before ATC will try to
contact you again (which you don't want).
If you have a conventional radio with a Standby window, then
1. the instant you hear your callsign, you shush your copilot and put
your fingers on the comm radio frequency selector,
2. while ATC is reading you the new frequency, you are dialing it
into the Standby window
3. then you read it back to him in the split second after he says it
and wish him a good day
4. you write the new freq down on your notepad for reference
5. press the transfer button, and you're on the new frequency ready
to contact the next ATC.
If you don't have a standby window, you have to
1. wait until he finishes reading you the frequency, while writing it
down, if you can find your pencil, OR
2. memorize the frequency - risky as you get older ;)
3. then read it back to him
4. then dial the new frequency into the radio
If you are unable to raise ATC on the new frequency, the standby
window type of radio gives you the ability to hit the transfer
button, go back to the previous frequency, and check in again to
verify you have the frequency correctly or get new instructions.
I have personally found the 2 window Com radio to be a great
invention. The busier the airspace you're in, the faster you want to
be able to react to ATC. Just last Sunday I was flying through the
DFW Class B airspace mixing it up with 757s and other planes coming
in and out of some very busy airspace. The controller was rattling
off instructions virtually non-stop. But every so often there would
be a shriek, a pause, and confusion. Turns out a poor Cherokee pilot
had lost his primary radio and was trying to use a handheld. He must
not have had an external antenna on it, because he would stomp all
over the approach controller or other airplanes, calling for
approach, and never hearing anything, so he'd do it again and again
and again. This went on for about 20 minutes. The controller was
about to stroke out from rage, and all of us pilots had eyes the size
of saucers, were quiet (as the proverbial big-mouth frog at the end
of that joke), and were EXTREMELY fast with our transmissions and
reactions to anything ATC said. The best course for that poor
Cherokee pilot would have been to get out of the Class B post haste
and reassess the utility of that particular handheld installation.
As for the utility of the NAV section on the radio, you're going to
be using your GPS for everything, so the NAV will strictly be a
backup. I hardly even fly by the DG any more... Ground Track is the
most important thing in getting there, and the GPS becomes the focal
point of all navigation. I have a Loran and a Nav radio as my 3rd
and 4th backups (after pilotage), but rarely actually use them.
I carry a handheld JRC com/nav radio in my flight bag in case
everything goes to hell.
Dave Morris
www.N6030X.com
At 08:14 AM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
>The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a
>handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel:
>What opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the
>primary and only radio. My flying would almost all be local with
>some cross country (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or
>Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired"
>to the plane in terms of external antenna, headset adapter, and
>external power planned ahead for a desired mounting location. Since
>I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on a
>mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be
>backup, and from what I have read, that already might be asking a
>lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV
>feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper,
>newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms
>of future options or upgrades.
>
>Thanks,
>John
>Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
At 09:14 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a
>handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What
>opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and
>only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country
>(Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both
>with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of
>external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a
>desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS
>(probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the
>radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already might
>be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld. Besides the
>NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper,
>newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible in terms of
>future options or upgrades.
It's been done many times. I've got pictures somewhere
showing various brackets on panel and sidewalls where
builders have provided mounting provisions for a hand-held
along with wire dressing techniques that keep the bundles
reasonable organized when the hand-held is slipped out
of the bracket for programming, etc.
Bob . . .
Message 14
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| Subject: | intercom & headset kits |
I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer time, |
but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something important
you were supposed to be doing now, would you???)
All these junk collection posts ( on the Aeroelectric list) brought me
to mind.
I live in an affluent town. At our dump, there is a " Bargain Barn"
for items discarded but in working order. Recently I bough a whole reel
of Romex wire, and a whole roll of 1/4" copper tubing, for about $2.00.
A neat-o Regulated 12v power supply, for $.50..... a $600 Schwinn
aerodyne exercise bike for $2... A Ford 351 waterpump pulley, powder
coated fitting my ski boat...Also many Thule Car rack components for
about the same price.
There are some good deals there, but for the SERIOUS scavenger, the
"toxic waste" section is a lot more fun, after all, the "normal people"
don't "browse" there. It seems as though the town is filled with people
who throw out full, unused gallons of Paint thinner, lacquer thinner,
Transmission fluid, denatured alcohol ( not sure what to do with all
that denatured alcohol) , full propane cylinders, with the seal still
on, Gallons of Awl-grip paint ( think Imron for boats) and related
reducers, ( like a $800 box of this stuff) and 3 mostly full gallons of
$150/gallon marine anti fouling paint. A full pint of Marine tex.
We are a seaside community, so the boat stuff is rampant.
I junked a Buick recently and had to keep the engine.. after all, you
never know when you'll need a 5.7 GM engine, with the ECM and
harness..fits many boats and my truck...
It is a disease. The Bridgeport Milling Machine with DRO in my garage
bay sez it all...Got it free on a machinery deal, made the tractor do
wheelies getting it off the flatbed...
I really find I use the stuff I collected, I mean, what if you need some
carbon brushes for an alternator??.. I have a few spares..You should see
my basement, or just come on over if you need something to build with..
I probably have two sitting around and I'll give you one. A rich mine
of project raw materials.
I would never fit into a "normal neighborhood" Too many boats fired up
at midnight on trailers, compressors running air tools at odd hours,
Trucks unloading boat carcasses, airplane fuselages....snowmobiles
ridden by the kids around the yard endlessly...( we call it " packing
the yard.. "you missed a spot there Jake...") And the blue and green
plastic tarps, they really add to the Martha Stewart seaside cottage
look that the suburban moms yearn for...and the gunfire ...and
fireworks..
Oh well, I guess I just needed some online communities like you guys ,
because I feel ( delusionally so, but they are MY delusions, it took me
a while to get here.. ) connected with you all.
I just upgraded my used once every 10 years ( 6 days no power of '96 ice
storm in Maine ) emergency generator to a 5kw Honda as I got it for
$300.00 and sold the 4kw Coleman ( plenty of backup power but the Honda
was soooo much cooler) for $200. Did you know that the 240 line on
some of them has no neutral, they just go phase to phase for 220, and if
you want to run your Gen-Trans switch you need a neutral, as the
transfer switch separates the legs for 110 in the house.( The gens with
the 4 pin connector have a neutral as well as a ground, had to rewire
that bad boy...nice learning process.. It now has a cool 20' 4 pin
female connector cord) You got to have back-up power don't you.. I
mean, once a decade you REALLLY need it, if you want heat and the well
pump, and I don't want the beer to get warm or the pizza cold.....
Dave the scavenger/collector
Message 16
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Good Morning Sam,
Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but
do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch?
The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor.
The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On
position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened the
master avionics contactor.
When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the master
relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned on, the
Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor leaving the
avionics unpowered.
When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON
position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered the
stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was when it was
being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics Buss unpowered.
In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely
fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.
Worked for me!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time,
sam@fr8dog.net writes:
I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is
something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the
battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to hold
it
closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the PowerLink
Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site?
Thanks,
Sam Marlow
RV10 wiring
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste yer |
time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had something
important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???)
Hey Dave,
Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the
"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you
finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but
'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your
location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare
room in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: David A. Leonard
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 10:18 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Collection of Junk( off topic don't waste
yer time, but on the other hand, you wouldn't be reading this if you had
something important you were supposed to be doing now, would you???)
All these junk collection posts ( on the Aeroelectric list) brought
me to mind.
I live in an affluent town. At our dump, there is a " Bargain Barn"
for items discarded but in working order. Recently I bough a whole reel
of Romex wire, and a whole roll of 1/4" copper tubing, for about $2.00.
A neat-o Regulated 12v power supply, for $.50..... a $600 Schwinn
aerodyne exercise bike for $2... A Ford 351 waterpump pulley, powder
coated fitting my ski boat...Also many Thule Car rack components for
about the same price.
There are some good deals there, but for the SERIOUS scavenger, the
"toxic waste" section is a lot more fun, after all, the "normal people"
don't "browse" there. It seems as though the town is filled with people
who throw out full, unused gallons of Paint thinner, lacquer thinner,
Transmission fluid, denatured alcohol ( not sure what to do with all
that denatured alcohol) , full propane cylinders, with the seal still
on, Gallons of Awl-grip paint ( think Imron for boats) and related
reducers, ( like a $800 box of this stuff) and 3 mostly full gallons of
$150/gallon marine anti fouling paint. A full pint of Marine tex.
We are a seaside community, so the boat stuff is rampant.
I junked a Buick recently and had to keep the engine.. after all, you
never know when you'll need a 5.7 GM engine, with the ECM and
harness..fits many boats and my truck...
It is a disease. The Bridgeport Milling Machine with DRO in my
garage bay sez it all...Got it free on a machinery deal, made the
tractor do wheelies getting it off the flatbed...
I really find I use the stuff I collected, I mean, what if you need
some carbon brushes for an alternator??.. I have a few spares..You
should see my basement, or just come on over if you need something to
build with.. I probably have two sitting around and I'll give you one.
A rich mine of project raw materials.
I would never fit into a "normal neighborhood" Too many boats fired
up at midnight on trailers, compressors running air tools at odd hours,
Trucks unloading boat carcasses, airplane fuselages....snowmobiles
ridden by the kids around the yard endlessly...( we call it " packing
the yard.. "you missed a spot there Jake...") And the blue and green
plastic tarps, they really add to the Martha Stewart seaside cottage
look that the suburban moms yearn for...and the gunfire ...and
fireworks..
Oh well, I guess I just needed some online communities like you guys ,
because I feel ( delusionally so, but they are MY delusions, it took me
a while to get here.. ) connected with you all.
I just upgraded my used once every 10 years ( 6 days no power of '96
ice storm in Maine ) emergency generator to a 5kw Honda as I got it for
$300.00 and sold the 4kw Coleman ( plenty of backup power but the Honda
was soooo much cooler) for $200. Did you know that the 240 line on
some of them has no neutral, they just go phase to phase for 220, and if
you want to run your Gen-Trans switch you need a neutral, as the
transfer switch separates the legs for 110 in the house.( The gens with
the 4 pin connector have a neutral as well as a ground, had to rewire
that bad boy...nice learning process.. It now has a cool 20' 4 pin
female connector cord) You got to have back-up power don't you.. I
mean, once a decade you REALLLY need it, if you want heat and the well
pump, and I don't want the beer to get warm or the pizza cold.....
Dave the scavenger/collector
Message 18
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Yes I would have to agree with the last two posts on this.
I flew my Zodiac for 400 hours and had a Icom A200 and a handheld
GPS...Oh and a transponder which I really found to be essential, not
only for flying controlled airspace but for flight following too.
My one experience with a handheld com was less than stella and I simply
decided to remember "7600" for the transponder code if the radio died.
Doing it this way avoids you having to explain that your radio died to
ATC who probably won't be able to hear you anyway.
Then if you can hear ATC he will give you directions and if you can't
you simply turn around and get out of their airspace.
If the concern is going down somewhere I think I would invest in a GPS
powered PLB....And if the landing looks hairy activate it before you hit
the trees!
If cost is a concern, there are many second hand older handheld GPS
units out there that work perfectly well....My old Lowrance will be
going into my flight bag as a backup to my IFR panel mount.
As to the ICOM radio...I was so impressed with it, it is is also now my
Com1 unit in my RV7.
Personally I would forget about using VOR's I'm half way thru my IFR
training and I still get confused by them.
If you intend to do a lot of Xcountry work in your Zodiac the one really
nice upgrade I would suggest is a Trutrak autopilot...Spendy yes but the
Zodac is a twitchy beast (at least the HDS was) and I thing the wing
leveler would see you arrive fresh rather than ragged as always happened
to me after more than two hours of flying the thing.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
N6030X
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios
--> <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
Hi John,
Here's my 2 cents worth:
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
John,
With a good quality install like you are talking about, I see no
reason not to do it. I use a Vertex VXA-150 handheld as my primary
radio in my Pietenpol, and I have no problems with it. I was even
based at a very busy class D airport under KDFW's class B for nearly a
year (Meacham, or KFTW, in Fort Worth), and I never had any problems.
If you have external power, an external antenna, and a reliable
headset connection, it is not a bad idea IMO. With an external
antenna that I made from a brass brazing rod, I have been able to
transmit and recieve over 80 miles air to air, and I can reliably
communicate with anyone who has a decent radio at 40 miles. I even
used the handheld on an 840 mile trip bringing the plane home.
The one thing that would be more handy with the handheld is a
"flip-flop" feature, and maybe easier to use presets for different
frequencies. The menus on the VXA-150 are cumbersome to use, but
otherwise I'm happy.
The antenna is critical, you may already know how to make one, but if
you are still studying that, Google Jim Weir of RST Engineering
(www.rst-engr.com)...he sells an inexpensive booklet that will tell
you everything you need to know about antennas.
One thing that is a bad idea in my opinion is the NAV feature. Skip
it, and spend that $100 on a handheld portable GPS if you really want
a backup. In an emergency or a critical situation, fumbling with the
NAV feature on a handheld will likely just waste your time in my
opinion. A handheld GPS will give you much more information with much
less work and for about the same amount of money.
Steve Ruse
WOT Electronics
Quoting John and Kim Lumkes <lumkes@msoe.edu>:
> The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld
> made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions
> does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio.
> My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I
> am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The
> radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna,
> headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting
> location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on
> a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup,
> and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these
> features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of
> the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology,
> lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades.
>
> Thanks,
> John
> Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
>
>
Message 20
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Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed
contactor?
BobsV35B@aol.com wrote:
> Good Morning Sam,
>
> Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have,
> but do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch?
>
> The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed
> contactor.
>
> The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On
> position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and
> opened the master avionics contactor.
>
> When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the
> master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was
> turned on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the
> contactor leaving the avionics unpowered.
>
> When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the
> ON position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and
> powered the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any
> power was when it was being held open during the time when I wanted
> the Avionics Buss unpowered.
>
> In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most
> likely fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.
>
> Worked for me!
>
> Happy Skies,
>
> Old Bob
> AKA
> Bob Siegfried
> Ancient Aviator
> Stearman N3977A
> Brookeridge Air Park LL22
> Downers Grove, IL 60516
> 630 985-8503
>
> In a message dated 1/31/2007 9:06:26 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sam@fr8dog.net writes:
>
> I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if
> there is something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid
> that I used for the battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it
> uses about an amp just to hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic
> version be much better, such as the PowerLink Jr. II 35A
> Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site?
> Thanks,
> Sam Marlow
> RV10 wiring
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . . |
Bob, I wish I had been there at Great Lakes when you were teaching. While
your insights into the world of techno-junkies is spot-on, the current crop
of managers have no clue. Unfortunately, today's technical managers as
stated by a previous poster come not from engineering backgrounds, but
accounting schools.
In addition to the bean counters not seeing the forest for the trees, there
are political forces at work in the manufacturing communities that mimic
"not invented here" mentality. If the ideas didn't come from some bean
counters focus group it will be beaten down and stomped on, as the budgets
are controlled by the bean counters. Then there's professional jealousy..
I was given the task of designing in some error proofing to some automation.
I found the best point in the production process to check it and remedy a
dropped step. It functioned perfectly. I tried every way to get it to fail,
and it stood up to testing. Every night as part of my start up, I would test
the error checking function.
Enter crack addict day shift electrician (union shop, can't fire 'em).
Something new in his area he didn't have a say in. Now any time the machine
went down, my error checking was to blame. To make matters worse, the
"controls engineer" who should have know better, played along, as it would
have been work for him to check out the story. So after I get beat up in the
office for 45 minutes of downtime, I ask the engineer, "if error checking
had you down, all you had to do is force an input in the PLC and you're
running in 30 seconds, why didn't you do that?" all he could do was stare at
me blankly and shrug. (problem actually came from part sensing not related
to the error checking, weld flash burr in a locating pin hole) I removed the
modifications and programming that night, and I will NEVER offer my
engineering abilities or ideas for improvements to my employer again.
I don't know if this is only a characteristic of just BIG companies, or the
auto industry in general, but I never experienced this in my career up until
my entry into the auto manufacturing arena. Innovation is spurned by the
politically connected. I've got tons of ideas, but won't waste them there.
Best of luck convincing the counters to nurture creative minds, but if you
weren't Bob Nuckolls, I'd call you Don Quixote!
Craig Smith
Message 22
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In a message dated 1/31/2007 10:04:01 A.M. Central Standard Time,
sam@fr8dog.net writes:
Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor?
Good Morning Sam,
The one I used was made by Essex Wire. I replaced it a few years later and
found that division had been sold to Cole Hersee. I just looked in my Newark
catalog and find neither Essex Wire or Cole Hersee listed!
A quick check has found several other manufacturers. One is Stancor and I am
sure they would have something suitable. I guess the best thing to do is
attack Google until you find what you want.
Happy hunting and,
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 23
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At 10:03 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>I'm ready to install my Radio Master contactor, just wondered if there is
>something better than the Van's heavy chunky solenoid that I used for the
>battery master. If I'm not mistaken I think it uses about an amp just to
>hold it closed, wouldn't a electronic version be much better, such as the
>PowerLink Jr. II 35A Solid-State Relay, listed on the Ecic Jones web site?
What's a radio master contactor? Do I presume correctly
that you're operating outside design goals and examples
cited in:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11J.pdf
It's not completely clear to me how your proposed
radio master contactor fits into the overall system
In any case, few avionics loads need switchgear so
robust as a starter or battery contactor. For these
lighter loads, there are dozens of options for various
relays (mini-contactors if you will) that will handle
the loads . . . not the least of which is Eric's solid
state relay.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
At 08:17 AM 1/31/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com.
>Has anybody used them?
I've known Jim for decades. While we might differ in design
philosophies, his products are well thought out and about
as robust as any kit can be. I cannot recall learning of
any customer complaints as to the performance or
value-received for his products.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 25
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At 10:22 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Good Morning Sam,
>
>Once again, this is way out of any area of expertise which I may have, but
>do I understand that you DO intend to have an Avionics Master Switch?
>
>The last time I wired up such a device, I used a normally closed contactor.
>
>The unit was wired in such a manner that the "On/Off" switch in the On
>position was open. In the Off position, the switch made contact and opened
>the master avionics contactor.
>
>When the ship's master switch was off, the unit was unpowered and the
>master relay was closed. As soon as the aircraft master switch was turned
>on, the Avionics Master Contactor was powered and it opened the contactor
>leaving the avionics unpowered.
>
>When I wanted to power the avionics suite, I flipped the switch to the ON
>position which took power away from the contactor. It closed and powered
>the stuff. Consequently, the only time the contactor used any power was
>when it was being held open during the time when I wanted the Avionics
>Buss unpowered.
>
>In the event of a failure of the Avionics Contactor, it would most likely
>fail to the closed position thus giving me use of my avionics.
An alternative to this approach is to craft an E-Bus
in the spirit and intent of any Z-figure. Then put
the AMS switch-relay in series with the normal-feedpath
diode. One gets all the advantages of the dual-feedpath
e-bus complete with isolation from the effects of
forgetting to open the master switch before closing
the alternate feed switch.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
I presume you are in the USA, over here the majority of 'microlights'
use the ICOM as their only radio
John - England
----- Original Message -----
From: John and Kim Lumkes
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 2:14 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios
The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a
handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What
opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and
only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country
(Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both
with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of
external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for
a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS
(probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the
radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already
might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld.
Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM
is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible
in terms of future options or upgrades.
Thanks,
John
Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
Message 27
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| Subject: | intercom & headset kits |
Built his marker beacon kit, which has performed perfectly for fifteen years
now.
Kenneth Melvin, Hillsboro, Oregon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of paul
wilson
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 7:17 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: intercom & headset kits
I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com.
Has anybody used them?
_________________________________
SISNA...more service, less money.
http://www.sisna.com/exclusive/
Message 28
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| Subject: | Sierra Electrical Problem |
1/31/2007
Hello Bob Nuckolls and Fellow Listers, I am seeking your help for a friend
who owns a Beech Sierra which has a 24 volt system. When we tried to start
the airplane recently the starter intermittently engaged and quickly
disengaged several times as soon as the master electrical switch was turned
on. The keyed ignition / starter switch had not been touched.
The airplane was towed to an FBO who said that the starter contactor located
near the battery back in the baggage compartment was faulty and a new one
would cost $450. It has been ordered.
My requests:
1) Can anyone provide me with a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for
this airplane?
2) Can anyone explain how electricity could get to the starter contactor
without the normal contacts within the keyed ignition / starter switch being
rotated into the "START" position?
Many thanks for your quick help.
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Elegant solutions for storage of junque? |
At 10:34 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey Dave,
>
>Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the
>"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you
>finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but
>'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your
>location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare room
>in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well.
I've often suggested to my managers that resume's are way
down on the list of useful things to see when considering
a prospective new hire. I've always advised, "Go look at
their workshop."
Here are couple of shots of my downstairs shop. Got
another "hammer-n-tongs" shop in the garage. Right
next to the downstairs shop is the office with all
the computers, printers, copy machine, and closet
that houses the telephone and CAT5 networking hardware.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_2.jpg
The second photo illustrates and experiment that I'm
going to refine this summer. The shelves are low cost
products from Sam's. The bins are plastic "shoe boxes"
available about everywhere for about $1. I can't build
a robust drawer/bin for a buck.
The arrangement you see in the picture is not space
efficient but it validated the idea. This summer, I'm
going to have a grandson join me for a few days of
making piles of sawdust (table saw is in upstairs shop)
to build shelves specifically fitted to the shoe-box
bins. My trusty AutoCAD drawing tells me that we'll
fit 190 bins into the wall space presently occupied
by the storage in the photo. I'll publish a picture
of the finished project.
If this works as planned, it will be repeated at
work if and when I get the IR&D facility project launched.
Does anyone else have examples of storage management
solutions for that valuable junque?
Bob . . .
Message 30
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At 10:59 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed contactor?
In the normally closed contactor catalog. However, I'll
suggest it will be easier to find if you call it a "relay".
Contactors are generally in the class of double-make, high
current ( >50A ) switching devices. What you're looking for
is something rated on the order of 20A. The catalogs are
replete with examples not the least of which may be seen
at:
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/1735-1738.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/2jfse2
http://tinyurl.com/2jey84
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? |
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> Does anyone else have examples of storage management
> solutions for that valuable junque?
>
No. But your wife is a saint, you lucky dog. Hold onto her with both
hands.
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Elegant solutions for storage of junque? |
At 01:06 PM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><echristley@nc.rr.com>
>
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>
>>Does anyone else have examples of storage management
>> solutions for that valuable junque?
>No. But your wife is a saint, you lucky dog. Hold onto her with both hands.
She has her 'turf' too. One of the bedrooms upstairs is
where she exercises here gray matter. Some of the telephone
and CAT5 cables route up there. And then there's
the yards. Seems like I rototill a bit more grass every
year to make room for more gardens. Plotting current
trends out into the future says we'll eliminate the
need for a mower by the year 2011.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 33
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Im not sure how well the nav portion would work because the nav wants a horizontal
antenna. The handheld com/nav would use the same vertical antenna. Yes, a
nav will work with a vertical, but it's not the best.
Bill
--
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Sierra Electrical Problem |
At 11:59 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>1/31/2007
>
>Hello Bob Nuckolls and Fellow Listers, I am seeking your help for a friend
>who owns a Beech Sierra which has a 24 volt system. When we tried to start
>the airplane recently the starter intermittently engaged and quickly
>disengaged several times as soon as the master electrical switch was
>turned on. The keyed ignition / starter switch had not been touched.
>
>The airplane was towed to an FBO who said that the starter contactor
>located near the battery back in the baggage compartment was faulty and a
>new one would cost $450. It has been ordered.
>
>My requests:
>
>1) Can anyone provide me with a copy of the electrical wiring diagram for
>this airplane?
>
>2) Can anyone explain how electricity could get to the starter contactor
>without the normal contacts within the keyed ignition / starter switch
>being rotated into the "START" position?
>
>Many thanks for your quick help.
>
>OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
This may be your lucky day. The ONLY TC aircraft wring diagrams
book I possess is for the Sundowner/Sierra series aircraft. I've
scanned the DC power, Ignition and Starter pages and posted
at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/BE23-24_Bat_Ign_Strtr.pdf
I'd put a voltmeter on the hot coil terminal of K102 contactor
and see if there's a stray voltage causing the contactor to
close intermittently.
I'd have to go check the data on that contactor but I think
it's a cutler-hammer 6041H series device which you can probably
find off the shelf for a lot less. Send me a photo of the part
and I can tell you more.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 35
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| Subject: | Z-13/8 Switch Question |
Listers / Bob,
I'm planning my electrical system (Z-13/8, Plane Power main alt) and panel
and want the switches and layout to be as simple and logical as possible. I
am considering using two 2-1 switches for the master and the alternators as
follows:
Master Switch
Down EBUS: Closes circuit between battery bus and E-bus.
Middle BATT: Only Battery bus is live.
Up MAIN: Normal flight position, grounds contacter making Main bus live,
E-bus is live via diode from Main.
Alternator Switch
Down BKUP: Grounds contactor making SD-8 backup live to battery.
Middle OFF: No power source available.
Up MAIN: Closes circuit between Main bus and main alternator field.
To my thinking, this is plenty logical and user-friendly. In effect, these
two would replace the following three switches in Z-13/8:
1. DC Power Master Switch (2-3)
2. E-Bus Alternate Feed (1-3)
3. Aux Alt Off/On (1-3)
Questions:
1. Is this a bad idea in terms of failure exposure - does my risk go up by
using fewer switches or by using 3-position switches? If so, the next three
questions are largely moot.
2. Can it be done such that the first is BATT / EBUS / MAIN and the second
is OFF / BKUP / MAIN such that fully down is off, fully up is normal, and
middle is "Houston, we have a problem"? This is my first choice, but I
haven't been able to work out a way to do it with any other 3-position
switch that I'm aware of. If there is an Off-On-On like a 2-1 but with Off
on bottom, that would do it, if there is some cool way to do it with a 2-10
I haven't conjured it.
3. I lose the ability to have both alternators plugging away at the battery
at the same time, is this a bug or a feature?
4. I also lose the ability of having both the Main bus live, and the E-Bus
live direct from the Battery bus w/o the attendant voltage drop from the
diode. Again, bug or feature?
Thanks in advance,
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7 standard build, fuselage underway
Message 36
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They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications. Has
anyone tried one of them ?
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:10 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 10:59 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>Hmmm, something to think about. Where would I find normally closed
>>contactor?
>
> In the normally closed contactor catalog. However, I'll
> suggest it will be easier to find if you call it a "relay".
> Contactors are generally in the class of double-make, high
> current ( >50A ) switching devices. What you're looking for
> is something rated on the order of 20A. The catalogs are
> replete with examples not the least of which may be seen
> at:
>
> http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T071/1735-1738.pdf
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2jfse2
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2jey84
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Elegant solutions for storage of junque? |
Many big companies, and a few middle sized ones (that are in the process
of failing) have a 'clean desk' policy. They say that our desks (and
workspaces) are reflections of our minds, to which I say EXACTLY.
Would we rather have a cluttered, messy desk with a lot of substance or
an clean, organized desk devoid of content. Many companies and
individuals value the latter, though there are not as many as there used
to be, since a lot of them are out of business. Nonetheless, it can be
said that they were very neat and orderly as they went bankrupt.
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 11:59 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Elegant solutions for storage of junque?
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 10:34 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>Hey Dave,
>
>Perhaps you were not aware, but the real name of this list is the
>"Scavengers Anonymous Society". The rest of us really appreciate you
>finally coming out of the closet {:>) - we had long suspected, but
>'fessing up is good for you. Actually, I'm a little envious of your
>location - but, then on the other hand, I really don't have any spare
room
>in my work shop and sheds - so its just as well.
I've often suggested to my managers that resume's are way
down on the list of useful things to see when considering
a prospective new hire. I've always advised, "Go look at
their workshop."
Here are couple of shots of my downstairs shop. Got
another "hammer-n-tongs" shop in the garage. Right
next to the downstairs shop is the office with all
the computers, printers, copy machine, and closet
that houses the telephone and CAT5 networking hardware.
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/Shop_2.jpg
The second photo illustrates and experiment that I'm
going to refine this summer. The shelves are low cost
products from Sam's. The bins are plastic "shoe boxes"
available about everywhere for about $1. I can't build
a robust drawer/bin for a buck.
The arrangement you see in the picture is not space
efficient but it validated the idea. This summer, I'm
going to have a grandson join me for a few days of
making piles of sawdust (table saw is in upstairs shop)
to build shelves specifically fitted to the shoe-box
bins. My trusty AutoCAD drawing tells me that we'll
fit 190 bins into the wall space presently occupied
by the storage in the photo. I'll publish a picture
of the finished project.
If this works as planned, it will be repeated at
work if and when I get the IR&D facility project launched.
Does anyone else have examples of storage management
solutions for that valuable junque?
Bob . . .
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: The case for an IR&D facility . . . |
At 11:21 AM 1/31/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><pilot4profit@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Bob, I wish I had been there at Great Lakes when you were teaching. While
>your insights into the world of techno-junkies is spot-on, the current crop
>of managers have no clue. Unfortunately, today's technical managers as
>stated by a previous poster come not from engineering backgrounds, but
>accounting schools.
>In addition to the bean counters not seeing the forest for the trees, there
>are political forces at work in the manufacturing communities that mimic
>"not invented here" mentality.
<snip>
. . . I've got tons of ideas, but won't waste them there.
>Best of luck convincing the counters to nurture creative minds, but if you
>weren't Bob Nuckolls, I'd call you Don Quixote!
>Craig Smith
While we could debate perceptions of cause-effect for your
experiences, there's no arguing with the realities of what
you went through. I'll agree that there's a whole lot of
politics and kingdom-building that goes on in the trenches
that most CEO's would be appalled to discover. I've worked
in the trenches my whole career and avoided any invitations
to move up the ladder because it would tend to isolate me
from getting my hands dirty.
My best hope for the current effort is that I have the ear
and concurrence of our chief scientist. The goal is not
to restructure anything that already exists. The IR&D facility
will have to be a new facility completely off the campus
so that we can have 18/7 access and no security issues. Further,
the facility has to be available to ANYONE who demonstrates
the ability and willingness to use it effectively. This might
include WSU students, even some high school students.
I've already got corporate support from companies outside
Hawker-Beech and it will probably go forward with or without
them. But without a doubt it will go forward faster and
to the benefit of more folks if H-B participates. Starting
it up fresh means their only commitment is for cash and
mentorship. We get unhooked from a whole raft of bureaucratic,
organizational and regulatory issues by moving it off the
H-B campus.
The interesting thing about this approach is that
it steps on nobody's toes and demands nothing from anyone.
The beneficiaries of this activity will participate
voluntarily and on their own time. The "new" activity
is a threat to nobody's kingdom and is not subject to
plant politics. The cost is so low that few bean
counters will take notice either. My chief scientist
could sign a chit to commit $50K a year with nobody's
permission needed.
You're right, trying to do this from within the organization
offers lots of windmills to get tangled up in. But now
that we've shifted to an outside facility it all gets
much simpler . . . and more hopeful.
Bob . . .
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question |
At 01:21 PM 1/31/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><george@georgejenson.com>
>
>
>Listers / Bob,
>
>I'm planning my electrical system (Z-13/8, Plane Power main alt) and panel
>and want the switches and layout to be as simple and logical as possible.
>I am considering using two 2-1 switches for the master and the alternators
>as follows:
>
>Master Switch
>Down EBUS: Closes circuit between battery bus and E-bus.
>Middle BATT: Only Battery bus is live.
>Up MAIN: Normal flight position, grounds contacter making Main bus live,
>E-bus is live via diode from Main.
>
>Alternator Switch
>Down BKUP: Grounds contactor making SD-8 backup live to battery.
>Middle OFF: No power source available.
>Up MAIN: Closes circuit between Main bus and main alternator field.
>
>To my thinking, this is plenty logical and user-friendly. In effect, these
>two would replace the following three switches in Z-13/8:
>1. DC Power Master Switch (2-3)
>2. E-Bus Alternate Feed (1-3)
>3. Aux Alt Off/On (1-3)
>
>Questions:
>1. Is this a bad idea in terms of failure exposure - does my risk go up by
>using fewer switches or by using 3-position switches? If so, the next
>three questions are largely moot.
Combined functions open opportunities for single
failures of a switch to affect more than one function.
Choose your combinations carefully. Also be aware that
fewer switches is "simpler" but combined functionality
is more "complex."
>2. Can it be done such that the first is BATT / EBUS / MAIN and the second
>is OFF / BKUP / MAIN such that fully down is off, fully up is normal, and
>middle is "Houston, we have a problem"? This is my first choice, but I
>haven't been able to work out a way to do it with any other 3-position
>switch that I'm aware of. If there is an Off-On-On like a 2-1 but with Off
>on bottom, that would do it, if there is some cool way to do it with a
>2-10 I haven't conjured it.
This could turn into a long debate as to the desirability
of doing (or not doing) any particular thing. Keep in mind that
the Z-figures have been combed for a number of years to keep
the operation logical and produced an attractive failure mode
effects analysis. While the switch panels illustrated to support
Z-13/8 may have a lot of features, I've resisted efforts to
combine functionality for systems other than cabin comfort,
landing/taxi/wig-wag and other lighting. See:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Switch_Panels/Z13-30-ElexIgn.pdf
>3. I lose the ability to have both alternators plugging away at the
>battery at the same time, is this a bug or a feature?
13/8 is not intended to be run with two alternators.
>4. I also lose the ability of having both the Main bus live, and the E-Bus
>live direct from the Battery bus w/o the attendant voltage drop from the
>diode. Again, bug or feature?
What you propose will predictably function as you've suggested.
Just be aware that the considerations for architecture and
functionality goes deeper than numbers of switches and occupied
panel space. Consider further that you'll no doubt want to
sell this airplane at some future date. The more familiar your
prospective customer is with the functionality of the controls,
the better.
Bob . . .
Message 40
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At 02:44 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><sales@6440autoparts.com>
>
> They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications.
> Has anyone tried one of them ?
Yup. Turns out that any part designed to survive under
the hood of a car is entirely suited for use in airplanes.
Bob . . .
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question |
Bob,
Thanks for the quick reply and solid logic.
1. I'll stick with the Z-13/8 as shown - losing one switch isn't worth
gaining an unknown amount of risk and giving up being "more likely to be
familiar" to a prospective future purchaser.
2. Thanks for the switch layout link - hadn't seen those and they are very
useful.
3. You wrote:
>13/8 is not intended to be run with two alternators.
I was referring to the main alternator and the SD-8 backup as two
alternators. Either that wasn't clear, or I mistakenly called it an
alternator. I was basing that on B&C's description:
>SD-8 Alternator
>Click picture for description Spline-driven 8 AMP - 14 Volt power system
>for mounting on vacuum pump pad. Price includes alternator assembly with
>male spline and regulator (protrudes 4.75" from mounting surface.)
Am I misunderstanding what you meant by 13/8 not having two alternators? In
any case, as 13/8 appears, you could indeed have both the Main Alternator
and the Backup SD-8 "whatever its called" both connected to the battery at
once. I'm assuming this is OK but I was asking if it is necessary or
beneficial? A better question would be under what circumstances would you
want them both connected and charging?
Thank you again for all you do,
George Jenson
Tucson, AZ
RV-7 Std Build, fuselage underway
Message 42
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That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I think
I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy new when
used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use relays to pick
out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Contactor
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 02:44 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>><sales@6440autoparts.com>
>>
>> They look like some of the ones seen on automobile applications.
>> Has anyone tried one of them ?
>
> Yup. Turns out that any part designed to survive under
> the hood of a car is entirely suited for use in airplanes.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Z-13/8 Switch Question |
At 03:50 PM 1/31/2007 -0700, you wrote:
><george@georgejenson.com>
>
>Bob,
>
<snip>
>>SD-8 Alternator
>>Click picture for description Spline-driven 8 AMP - 14 Volt power system
>>for mounting on vacuum pump pad. Price includes alternator assembly with
>>male spline and regulator (protrudes 4.75" from mounting surface.)
OOPS . . . a better word would have been OPERATED.
>Am I misunderstanding what you meant by 13/8 not having two alternators?
>In any case, as 13/8 appears, you could indeed have both the Main
>Alternator and the Backup SD-8 "whatever its called" both connected to the
>battery at once. I'm assuming this is OK but I was asking if it is
>necessary or beneficial? A better question would be under what
>circumstances would you want them both connected and charging?
Your load analysis for NORMAL ops should be well satisfied by
the main alternator. The standby alternator is to enhance ALT
FAILED operations to support 8+ amps of E-bus loads indefinitely
while en route. This saves 100% of battery charge in reserve for
loads that exceed the SD-8 output during approach and landing.
>Thank you again for all you do,
My pleasure sir.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 44
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At 04:53 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><sales@6440autoparts.com>
>
> That's good to know. I have plenty of used ones around here but I
> think I would opt for new ones (dang I hate it when my motto is "why buy
> new when used will do") It may still be a good idea for all that use
> relays to pick out a common type that is plentiful, may be good in a pinch.
>
>Randy
Don't get wrapped around the "reliability" axle for ANY
part selection. See chapter 17 for an expansion on the following
idea:
ANY PART can fail at any time irrespective of how many specs
define it or Q.A. processes have tested it. EVERY PART has
a service life . . . nothing runs forever.
Therefore, whether you pick a relay out of your junque box
in the shop or order it from Smiley Jack's High Dollar Parts
Emporium, do not depend on that part to never fail.
You do this by designing, maintaining and operating with
a goal of achieving failure tolerance. Failure tolerance
falls into two categories:
(1) getting on the ground without it is problematic and
could raise my blood pressure.
(2) getting on the ground without it is no big deal and
comfortable arrival at airport of intended destination is
a breeze.
If condition 1 applies, have a backup for it. Likelihood
of two category 1 failures on any single tank of gas is
pretty low . . . no matter how sleazy your parts supplier
is. So, pick any part to use anywhere but with a plan-B
designed into your system and operating procedures to cover
a category 1 failure.
A very reliable SYSTEM may be fabricated from rather
mediocre parts.
Bob . . .
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
John and Kim Lumkes wrote:
> The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a
> handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What
> opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and
> only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country
> (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both
> with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of
> external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for
> a desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS
> (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the
> radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already
> might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld.
> Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM
> is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible
> in terms of future options or upgrades.
>
> Thanks,
> John
> Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
With the icom, be absolutely sure it will work on external power (read
the actual manual) before purchase.
I bought an A-4 on the assurance from the factory rep that it would
work, only to find after I got it home that it will only charge the
rechargable battery when power is supplied to the ext. jack(radio
operation is disabled). Says so right in the manual, which I didn't read
before purchase.
Charlie
Not a big fan of companies who make bad design decisions, then lie about
them.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
paul wilson wrote:
>
> I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
>
It's been a while, but I built a couple of headsets back when it made
economic sense, and a portable intercom. They were well designed & easy
for me to construct (I do have a bit of a history with a soldering
iron). I enjoy electronic kits; you might not. I've still got a set of
the headphones. When I got married, my wife commandeered the RST's over
the choice of much more expensive ones & used them until we upgraded to
active noise canceling ones.
He was supposed to release a new design for an audio panel/intercom but
I don't know if it's available yet. The old one (meaning 15 years ago)
was a bit primitive in dealing with comm operation vs. intercom operation.
These days, some stuff you just can't kit for less than it costs for a
complete manufactured unit. Do your homework.
Charlie
Message 47
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| Subject: | Connecting hand-held to ships antenna |
Bob,
I checked back in the articles archive and found one that described a small
box fabricated from sheet brass for connecting a handheld to the com
antenna. I liked this approach because if you keep the short length of coax
attached to your handheld, all you have to do is pull it out and plug the
connector into the dash mounted jack. To me this is easier than
disconnecting and reconnecting a coax line. Does this jack disconnect the
panel mounted comm from the antenna line when the plug from the handheld is
inserted? Is this still an acceptable alternative, or is there a reason that
you did not mention it?
Thanks to all on your thoughts about great teachers we have been privileged
to learn from. I have a few I need to find...
Tom Barter
Kesley, IA
Avid Magnum (a work in progress)
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
Not familiar with the A24 but the previous model, the A22 will power
externally quite happily and here Downunder, is commonly used as the main
radio in our ultralight category ( similar to the advanced ultralight in
Canada) without the battery attached.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios
> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> John and Kim Lumkes wrote:
>> The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a
>> handheld made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What
>> opinions does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and
>> only radio. My flying would almost all be local with some cross country
>> (Zenith601). I am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both
>> with NAV/COM. The radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of
>> external antenna, headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a
>> desired mounting location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS
>> (probably PocketFMS on a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the
>> radios would only be backup, and from what I have read, that already
>> might be asking a lot of these features as installed in a handheld.
>> Besides the NAV feature, buying one of the handhelds for my primary COM
>> is cheaper, newer electronics technology, lower in weight, and flexible
>> in terms of future options or upgrades.
>> Thanks,
>> John
>> Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
>
> With the icom, be absolutely sure it will work on external power (read the
> actual manual) before purchase.
>
> I bought an A-4 on the assurance from the factory rep that it would work,
> only to find after I got it home that it will only charge the rechargable
> battery when power is supplied to the ext. jack(radio operation is
> disabled). Says so right in the manual, which I didn't read before
> purchase.
>
> Charlie
> Not a big fan of companies who make bad design decisions, then lie about
> them.
>
>
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Handheld Radios |
John,
I used to have a Luscombe 8E. I used a Garmin GPS/Com 190 Handheld as my only
radio. It did not do that well until I connected it to the external antenna and
onboard power. After that, it worked great. Never had a problem communicating
with anyone. I could receive up to a couple of hundred miles and transmit
up to about 60 miles if I was up around 8-10k.
Bill Settle
Winston-Salem, NC
RV-8 Wings
>
> From: "John and Kim Lumkes" <lumkes@msoe.edu>
> Date: 2007/01/31 Wed AM 09:14:42 EST
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Handheld Radios
>
> The recent little snippet about how to switch the COM antenna to a handheld
> made me think of a scenario I am considering for my panel: What opinions
> does this group have about using a handheld for the primary and only radio.
> My flying would almost all be local with some cross country (Zenith601). I
> am leaning towards the ICOM-A24 or Sporty's SP-200, both with NAV/COM. The
> radio would be "hard-wired" to the plane in terms of external antenna,
> headset adapter, and external power planned ahead for a desired mounting
> location. Since I plan on having a moving map and GPS (probably PocketFMS on
> a mini-ITX or similar) the NAV portion of the radios would only be backup,
> and from what I have read, that already might be asking a lot of these
> features as installed in a handheld. Besides the NAV feature, buying one of
> the handhelds for my primary COM is cheaper, newer electronics technology,
> lower in weight, and flexible in terms of future options or upgrades.
>
> Thanks,
> John
> Zenith601HD/R912--70% complete
>
>
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Connecting hand-held to ships antenna |
At 06:38 PM 1/31/2007 -0600, you wrote:
Bob,
I checked back in the articles archive and found one that
described a small box fabricated from sheet brass for connecting
a handheld to the com antenna. I liked this approach because
if you keep the short length of coax attached to your handheld,
all you have to do is pull it out and plug the connector into
the dash mounted jack. To me this is easier than disconnecting
and reconnecting a coax line. Does this jack disconnect the
panel mounted comm from the antenna line when the plug from the
handheld is inserted? Is this still an acceptable alternative,
or is there a reason that you did not mention it?
Yeah . . . in fact, I thought I'd pulled that article.
Thanks for reminding me about it. I do want to take it
down.
THE problem is the kind of jack needed to achieve the
automatic switching of antenna from panel mounted radio
to the hand held as the hand-held's cable is plugged in.
This is called a "closed circuit" jack and is the same
style of connector that disconnects the speaker from a
small radio when you plug in headphones.
The potential for problems arises because signals for
the panel mounted radio are carried across low pressure
contacts that are not especially designed for longevity
in the cockpit environment. Probability that the pilot
will NEED to use the hand-held is probably lower than
probability that corrosion in the closed circuit jack
will make the panel mounted radio un-reliable or noisy.
It's a case of not being able to make sure that the
cure is not more lethal than the disease!
Not everyone is REALLY good at building these jacks,
especially the miniature ones. Breaking into the coax
by opening BNC connectors is many times more robust
than those little jacks. Had some fun putting that
article together but in retrospect, it wasn't all that
good an idea.
The REALLY cool solution is a solid state relay (PIN
diodes) but these take power to make them work . . . and
the whole idea behind an antenna jack for hand helds
is to service the hand-held radio even if power in the
airplane is down completely.
The other alternative is an antenna relay that is
held energized by ship's power to keep the panel mounted
radio serviced . . . and defaults to the hand-held's
antenna jack when switched off or ship's power is down.
In retrospect, since we are all (repeat after me) building
failure tolerant electrical systems, perhaps the PIN diode
switch is the best way to do the transfer. I'll think about
it some more. In the mean time, breaking into the coax is
really easy, cheap and super-robust.
Thanks to all on your thoughts about great teachers we have been privileged
to learn from. I have a few I need to find...
Good luck! I hope you find them.
Bob . . .
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is
well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super.
Ron
paul wilson wrote:
>
> I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits. www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
Message 52
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| Subject: | Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held |
1/31/2007
It will cost more and you won't have as much "roll your own satisfaction",
but the IC-ANT-SB from ICOM is another way to skin this cat. See this web
page.
http://www.edmo.com/index.php?module=products&func=display&prod_id=19280&cat_id
This has been mentioned previously on the list. Check with a local avionics
shop to purchase or GOOGLE IC-ANT-SB for a catalog seller.
OC -- The best investment we will ever make is in gathering knowledge.
Time: 07:17:51 AM PST US
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Sharing ship's COMM antenna with the hand-held
>I want to split the signal from my COMM antenna so I can plug
>in a handheld when necessary. Can you tell me what type of
>splitter I need, and possibly where to find one? BandC doesn't
>seem to carry them.
The least expensive and most reliable means by which you
can share the airplane's external antenna with a hand
held is to route the COMM antenna cable through the
cockpit such that a pair of connectors . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/crimpcf.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Connectors/s605cm.jpg
come together within easy reach of the pilot. Coil up
some excess length on the ANTENNA SIDE pigtail and make sure
this piece of coax has the cable male connector on it.
If the panel mounted radio becomes unavailable to you,
open this joint and bring the antenna pigtail up to the hand
held. You'll also find it useful to use TWO right angle
adapters . . .
http://tinyurl.com/2u3qzy
. . . on the end of this pigtail.
The coax can now pass up the back side of your hand
held and make a 180-degree u-turn to mate with the radio's
BNC connector at the top.
Bob . . .
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
I built one of his combined intercom/marker/audio panel kits about 23
years ago. It worked fine for the 15 years I owned the plane I installed
it in. Probably needed the gain on the marker turned down a bit, other
wise it performed 100% as advertised.
>
>>
>> I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits.
>> www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
Do you know if his audio panel and the remote marker beacon receiver
can be used in a certified aircraft? I assumed since he built his
first one for his Cessna 170 that it was OK to have a non-TSO'ed
audio panel, but I've been wondering because he doesn't mention
anything either way on the web site.
Dave Morris
At 08:39 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
>
>I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is
>well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super.
>
>Ron
>
>
>paul wilson wrote:
> >
> > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits.
> www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: intercom & headset kits |
TSO is not required for Part 91 avionics, other than transponder and ELT.
The kit was returned complete to RST for alignment and FCC
certification, then returned to me. I had avionics shop install it in my
C170B. No problem.
Depending on FSDO, IA and whether they go along with Jim Weir's
pronouncement that the audio panel is a minor modification.
Dave N6030X wrote:
> <N6030X@DaveMorris.com>
>
> Do you know if his audio panel and the remote marker beacon receiver
> can be used in a certified aircraft? I assumed since he built his
> first one for his Cessna 170 that it was OK to have a non-TSO'ed audio
> panel, but I've been wondering because he doesn't mention anything
> either way on the web site.
>
> Dave Morris
>
> At 08:39 PM 1/31/2007, you wrote:
>> <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
>>
>> I am building the RST Engineering audio panel/intercom now. The kit is
>> well organized and perhaps more important, the documentation is super.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> paul wilson wrote:
>> <pwmac@sisna.com>
>> >
>> > I am interested in any evaluation of the Jim Wier kits.
>> www.rst-engr.com. Has anybody used them?
>>
>
>
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