Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:08 AM - Electroluminescent Light Strip (Chris Byrne)
2. 03:57 AM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (William Slaughter)
3. 04:49 AM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
4. 04:55 AM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
5. 05:11 AM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 05:12 AM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:37 AM - And now for something completely different..... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 06:53 AM - twisted wires (Dale Fultz)
9. 07:29 AM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (6440 Auto Parts)
10. 07:32 AM - Re: twisted wires (Dale Ensing)
11. 07:53 AM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (Richard Dudley)
12. 08:31 AM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (6440 Auto Parts)
13. 08:42 AM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (Jim Streit)
14. 09:39 AM - Re: And now for something completely different..... (Bill Boyd)
15. 10:44 AM - Re: Shunt vs hall effect sensor ()
16. 11:45 AM - Re: twisted wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
17. 01:01 PM - Re: twisted wires (raymondj)
18. 01:18 PM - NAV audio hum - simple question (Mitchell Faatz)
19. 01:29 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (Bill Denton)
20. 02:09 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (Mitchell Faatz)
21. 02:14 PM - Re: And now for something completely different..... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 02:23 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (john@ballofshame.com)
23. 02:28 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (Bill Denton)
24. 02:51 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (john@ballofshame.com)
25. 03:05 PM - Theft Deterrent (PeterHunt1@aol.com)
26. 03:12 PM - Re: Theft Deterrent (BobsV35B@aol.com)
27. 03:59 PM - Re: twisted wires (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
28. 04:21 PM - Re: NAV audio hum - simple question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
29. 04:22 PM - 14 V Voltmeter Markings (Bill Denton)
30. 05:17 PM - Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip (Ken)
31. 07:32 PM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (William Slaughter)
32. 09:23 PM - Re: 14 V Voltmeter Markings (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
33. 09:24 PM - Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Electroluminescent Light Strip |
I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left at the
original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as supplied by
its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the moment it
illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short lengths of
wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works should I
link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
inverter.
Thanks.
Chris Byrne
SYDNEY
Message 2
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| Subject: | Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
Battery Tender has quite a few different models, and the info on their
website indicates that they use different charging algorithms. I could not
find the "021-0123" model number on the Deltran website, but judging by the
0.8A rating, it would be a Battery Tender Jr.. I have a Battery Tender Plus,
which is rated at 1.25A, and uses a different charging algorithm than the
Jr., and the charging profile shown for it on the Deltran Technical Info
page looks a lot more like the curve you got from the Schumacher. I'd be
willing to loan mine out for a test run if you want.
William Slaughter
RV-8
>Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
>><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>>As promised, I've finished the first experiment to look
>>at the recharge characteristics of a Battery Tender. Take
>>a look at:
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/Battery_Tender_Recharge_1.jpg
>>jpg
>>
>>I thought I'd looked at the Battery Tender performance
>>some time ago but data taken on this test suggests this is the first
>>time . . .
>>
>>Note that the Battery Tender's 'size' is not a limiting factor for
>>putting energy back into a battery. The battery's terminal voltage was
>>climbing nicely at a rate commensurate with the device's output rating
>>of about 0.8 amps.
>>
>>The surprise comes when the device switches from a charge to sustain
>>mode at just under 14.0 volts! To put this in context, look at:
>>
>>http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Curves/schumacher_3.jpg
>>
>>Here we see a predictable rise in voltage as the battery's chemistry
>>converts incoming energy into stored chemical energy. Note also that
>>the rate-of-rise takes a decidedly upward inflection sometime after
>>the voltage climbs past 14.4 volts. This is typical of most if not all
>>rechargeable battery chemistries. This characteristic is used to send
>>a signal to truly 'smart' chargers to announce a nearly full state of
>>charge.
>>
>>In the case for the Schumacher charger, we see that the profile
>>changes from constant current to constant voltage where the battery is
>>held in this "top-off" mode for about 2 hours. After that time, the
>>charger's output drops to the expected sustaining level of about 13.0
>>volts.
>>
>>Going back to the Battery Tender, we see that the recharge voltage
>>never rises to the inflection point indicating that the battery is
>>about full. Further, there's no dwell at some elevated top-off
>>voltage.
>>
>>I'm discharging the battery again to measure how much snort the
>>Battery Tender put back into the battery. I'll then recharge it again
>>with the Schumacher charger and compare notes again.
>>
>>This early look-see at the data suggests that admonitions against
>>using Battery Tenders as battery chargers is correct. The Battery
>>Tender doesn't get the job done based on what we know of battery
>>chemistry and the charging profiles suggested by other manufacturers.
>>The complaints I'd heard about Battery Tenders was that they were "too
>>small" . . . in fact they appear to be quite capable with respect to
>>energy output levels. Instead, they are deficient in smarts necessary
>>to (1) detect end of charge, (2) hold at some elevated top-off level
>>for a reasonable length of time followed by (3) drop to a sustaining
>>level that doesn't charge the battery and simply offsets the battery's
>>internal self discharge currents.
>>
>>Watch this space . . .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
>> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
>> ( EVERY day . . . )
>> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
At 05:51 AM 2/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
>
>Battery Tender has quite a few different models, and the info on their
>website indicates that they use different charging algorithms. I could not
>find the "021-0123" model number on the Deltran website, but judging by the
>0.8A rating, it would be a Battery Tender Jr.. I have a Battery Tender Plus,
>which is rated at 1.25A, and uses a different charging algorithm than the
>Jr., and the charging profile shown for it on the Deltran Technical Info
>page looks a lot more like the curve you got from the Schumacher. I'd be
>willing to loan mine out for a test run if you want.
Sounds like a deal to me. I was surprised that when I discharged
the test battery after charging with the Battery Tender Jr, the battery
gave up about the same energy as it did for the initial discharge.
Just over 12AH at the 3.0A rate.
I'd appreciate having access to your BT+ to include in the
series of experiments. I'll be sharing the data from the tests
with folks at Concord too. Their battery gurus will be able
to put the sanity check on our results.
If you could ship your charger to me at 6936 Bainbridge,
Wichita, KS 67226 I should be able to get it back to you
in a day or so after receiving it.
Bob . . .
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
At 09:04 PM 2/13/2007 +1100, you wrote:
><jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>
>I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
>contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>
>If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left at the
>original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as supplied by
>its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the moment it
>illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
EL lamps are essentially capacitors where the dielectric material
emits visible light when electrostatically stressed. The luminousity
is a function of voltage and frequency and to some extent waveform
and power consumed is proportional to square inches of active lamp.
Therefore, the light emitted from any given square inch of lamp is
independent of how many total square inches . . . 1/2 of the original
lamp would obviously emit 1/2 the total light but any give square
inch of lamp would be unchanged by cutting it.
>Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short lengths of
>wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works should I
>link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>inverter.
You can daisy chain. You don't need separate wires. I would use
small (22 or 24 AWG) twisted in a drill motor to make your one
twisted pairs.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
At 12:18 AM 2/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>I have a Battery Minder on my Gill G-35 battery now too. Before I used
>it, my battery used to hover around 12.2V when the plane was shut down. I
>ran the battery nearly dead once trying to start the engine when the
>weather had dropped below 30 degrees. After using the Battery Minder on
>it for about 3 days, it fired the engine up on a 25 degree morning in only
>about 5 blades, and the battery sits at over 13V when the plane is shut down.
It would be interesting to do a recharge test profile
on a Battery Minder too . . . but I suspect it's very
much like the Battery Tender. I have used Battery Tenders
here in my shop for several years to keep batteries topped-off
on the bench. My father-in-law has used them on his vehicles
too. They do the battery maintenance job just fine.
What were investigating here is an assertion supplied by
someone on the web that these smallest of battery maintenance
devices are unsuitable for use as chargers . . . i.e. replenishing
the energy in a heavily discharged battery.
The recharge profile measured on my Battery Tender Jr did
not have all the features offered by some other chargers.
I've attached a snippet of the trace on the Schumacher recharge
profile just completed. It topped out at 14.4 volts, only
about 0.5 volts higher than the Battery Tender Jr. At this
point in the recharge cycle, the battery is accepting only
hundreds of milliamperes of recharge current so these "dwells"
at the top-off voltage don't represent much total energy.
But in this case we do see the upward inflection in voltage that
begins right at 14.0 volts.
This may account for the fact that BTJr's performance as
a charger isn't all that bad. It stopped pushing energy into
the battery at about 13.9 volts. We shall see . . .
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
At 09:35 PM 2/12/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Good data to have. Would be interesting to compare to the Battery Minder,
>which is similar in that it charges to around 14V at 1.33 amps, then cuts
>back to 13.6 to maintain. I've been playing with it on a 1 yr old CB35A,
>and a 7 year old CB35A that was dead when I started. Both now show fully
>charged electrolyte specific gravity. I alternate, a few days on each.
You can hook batteries in parallel for charging and
maintaining. I've had as many as three different sized
batteries on my BTJrs and they all seem to live quite
happily. The batteries respond to terminal voltage and
are individually oblivious to how many other batteries
may be sharing the charger's attention.
Bob . . .
Message 7
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| Subject: | And now for something completely different..... |
Looks to be very interesting.....
http://www.verticalpower.com/
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
Do not archive
Message 8
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I am new to some of this wiring,, where all should twisted wires be used
when doing the aircraft wiring,, Thanks Dale
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
Does anyone have a source for these el strips ? I bought a
couple of sets off of ebay 1" x 18". They seemed to be plentiful a year of
so back now looks like the el rope is the thing.
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:48 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> At 09:04 PM 2/13/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>
>><jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>>
>>I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
>>contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>>
>>If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left at
>>the
>>original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as supplied
>>by
>>its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the moment it
>>illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
>
> EL lamps are essentially capacitors where the dielectric material
> emits visible light when electrostatically stressed. The luminousity
> is a function of voltage and frequency and to some extent waveform
> and power consumed is proportional to square inches of active lamp.
>
> Therefore, the light emitted from any given square inch of lamp is
> independent of how many total square inches . . . 1/2 of the original
> lamp would obviously emit 1/2 the total light but any give square
> inch of lamp would be unchanged by cutting it.
>
>>Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short lengths of
>>wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works should
>>I
>>link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>>inverter.
>
> You can daisy chain. You don't need separate wires. I would use
> small (22 or 24 AWG) twisted in a drill motor to make your one
> twisted pairs.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: twisted wires |
It is my understanding that twisted wire is used where there is a "signal"
in the wire such as engine monitor wiring or communication wiring and not
just DC current such as power to a motor or light. The electrical gurus may
have more to add.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz7@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:50 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: twisted wires
> <dfultz7@earthlink.net>
>
> I am new to some of this wiring,, where all should twisted wires be used
> when doing the aircraft wiring,, Thanks Dale
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
Hi Randy,
I purchased EL strips and inverter from an Orlando company about 4 years
ago. I installed a strip under my glare shield that illuminates my whole
panel. I don't know their current status but here is their info:
Luxury Lighting, Robert Temple General Manager, www.LuxuryLighting.net,
RTemple@LuxuryLighting.net, 866-681-0072
I just checked their website and it looks as though they are
flourishing. I used what they call their "Flatlight linear strips". It
puts out amazing amount of light.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A starting second Condition Inspection
6440 Auto Parts wrote:
> <sales@6440autoparts.com>
>
> Does anyone have a source for these el strips ? I bought a
> couple of sets off of ebay 1" x 18". They seemed to be plentiful a
> year of so back now looks like the el rope is the thing.
>
> Randy
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:48 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
>
>
>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>
>> At 09:04 PM 2/13/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>>
>>> <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>>>
>>> I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
>>> contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>>>
>>> If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left
>>> at the
>>> original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as
>>> supplied by
>>> its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the
>>> moment it
>>> illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
>>
>>
>> EL lamps are essentially capacitors where the dielectric material
>> emits visible light when electrostatically stressed. The luminousity
>> is a function of voltage and frequency and to some extent waveform
>> and power consumed is proportional to square inches of active lamp.
>>
>> Therefore, the light emitted from any given square inch of lamp is
>> independent of how many total square inches . . . 1/2 of the original
>> lamp would obviously emit 1/2 the total light but any give square
>> inch of lamp would be unchanged by cutting it.
>>
>>> Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short
>>> lengths of
>>> wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works
>>> should I
>>> link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>>> inverter.
>>
>>
>> You can daisy chain. You don't need separate wires. I would use
>> small (22 or 24 AWG) twisted in a drill motor to make your one
>> twisted pairs.
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
>> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
>> ( EVERY day . . . )
>> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
Thanks I sent them an email to see if they could help me out.
Randy
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
> <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hi Randy,
> I purchased EL strips and inverter from an Orlando company about 4 years
> ago. I installed a strip under my glare shield that illuminates my whole
> panel. I don't know their current status but here is their info:
> Luxury Lighting, Robert Temple General Manager, www.LuxuryLighting.net,
> RTemple@LuxuryLighting.net, 866-681-0072
>
> I just checked their website and it looks as though they are flourishing.
> I used what they call their "Flatlight linear strips". It puts out amazing
> amount of light.
> Regards,
> Richard Dudley
> -6A starting second Condition Inspection
>
> 6440 Auto Parts wrote:
>
>> <sales@6440autoparts.com>
>>
>> Does anyone have a source for these el strips ? I bought a
>> couple of sets off of ebay 1" x 18". They seemed to be plentiful a year
>> of so back now looks like the el rope is the thing.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
>>
>>
>>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>>
>>> At 09:04 PM 2/13/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>>>>
>>>> I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
>>>> contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>>>>
>>>> If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left at
>>>> the
>>>> original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as
>>>> supplied by
>>>> its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the moment
>>>> it
>>>> illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
>>>
>>>
>>> EL lamps are essentially capacitors where the dielectric material
>>> emits visible light when electrostatically stressed. The luminousity
>>> is a function of voltage and frequency and to some extent waveform
>>> and power consumed is proportional to square inches of active lamp.
>>>
>>> Therefore, the light emitted from any given square inch of lamp is
>>> independent of how many total square inches . . . 1/2 of the original
>>> lamp would obviously emit 1/2 the total light but any give square
>>> inch of lamp would be unchanged by cutting it.
>>>
>>>> Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short lengths
>>>> of
>>>> wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works
>>>> should I
>>>> link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>>>> inverter.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can daisy chain. You don't need separate wires. I would use
>>> small (22 or 24 AWG) twisted in a drill motor to make your one
>>> twisted pairs.
>>>
>>> Bob . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
>>> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
>>> ( EVERY day . . . )
>>> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
Affordable panels has the light strips
Jim
6440 Auto Parts wrote:
> <sales@6440autoparts.com>
>
> Thanks I sent them an email to see if they could help me out.
>
> Randy
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Dudley"
> <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
>
>
>> <rhdudley1@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Hi Randy,
>> I purchased EL strips and inverter from an Orlando company about 4
>> years ago. I installed a strip under my glare shield that illuminates
>> my whole panel. I don't know their current status but here is their
>> info:
>> Luxury Lighting, Robert Temple General Manager,
>> www.LuxuryLighting.net, RTemple@LuxuryLighting.net, 866-681-0072
>>
>> I just checked their website and it looks as though they are
>> flourishing. I used what they call their "Flatlight linear strips".
>> It puts out amazing amount of light.
>> Regards,
>> Richard Dudley
>> -6A starting second Condition Inspection
>>
>> 6440 Auto Parts wrote:
>>
>>> <sales@6440autoparts.com>
>>>
>>> Does anyone have a source for these el strips ? I bought
>>> a couple of sets off of ebay 1" x 18". They seemed to be plentiful a
>>> year of so back now looks like the el rope is the thing.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>> To: <aeroelectric-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:48 AM
>>> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Electroluminescent Light Strip
>>>
>>>
>>>> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> At 09:04 PM 2/13/2007 +1100, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <jack.byrne@bigpond.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not
>>>>> follow the
>>>>> contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>>>>>
>>>>> If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if
>>>>> left at the
>>>>> original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as
>>>>> supplied by
>>>>> its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the
>>>>> moment it
>>>>> illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a
>>>>> dimmer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> EL lamps are essentially capacitors where the dielectric material
>>>> emits visible light when electrostatically stressed. The luminousity
>>>> is a function of voltage and frequency and to some extent waveform
>>>> and power consumed is proportional to square inches of active lamp.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, the light emitted from any given square inch of lamp is
>>>> independent of how many total square inches . . . 1/2 of the
>>>> original
>>>> lamp would obviously emit 1/2 the total light but any give square
>>>> inch of lamp would be unchanged by cutting it.
>>>>
>>>>> Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short
>>>>> lengths of
>>>>> wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works
>>>>> should I
>>>>> link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>>>>> inverter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You can daisy chain. You don't need separate wires. I would use
>>>> small (22 or 24 AWG) twisted in a drill motor to make your one
>>>> twisted pairs.
>>>>
>>>> Bob . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
>>>> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
>>>> ( EVERY day . . . )
>>>> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different..... |
Very interesting indeed, but not available until August; not even a price
hint.
On 2/13/07, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
>
> Looks to be very interesting=85..
>
>
> http://www.verticalpower.com/
>
>
> [image: VP.jpg]
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> -10 #352 Limbo
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Shunt vs hall effect sensor |
Bob:
That is not necessary, the GRT EIS has 6 aux inputs.
He can connect two, three or more hall effect sensors,
all with individual hi/lo alarm parameters.
Also, if he wants to keep the shunt and discrete meters
if his shunt is 1-to-1, e.g.,1mV per 1amp, he can use
an inexpensive digital panel meter directly ($10-$20).
George
>From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Shunt vs hall effect sensor
>
>You could pick up an extra hall-sensor and put a switch
>in to select which sensor was driving the glass . . .
>
>Alternatively, here's a loadmeter I build here from
>Triplett pivot and jewel movements:
>
>Bob . . .
---------------------------------
Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels
in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: twisted wires |
At 09:50 AM 2/13/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I am new to some of this wiring,, where all should twisted wires be used
>when doing the aircraft wiring,, Thanks Dale
There are three ways that a wire can become an efficient
receptor or radiator of noise.
Electromagnetic - Close proximity of a potential victim
wire to a wire that carries strong -AND- dynamic
current will magnetically couple a component of that
current in the form of "noise".
Electrostatic - Close proximity of a potential victim
to a wire that carries a strong -AND- dynamic voltage
will electrostatically (capacitively) couple a component
of that voltage in the form of "noise".
Electromagnetic Radiation - A wire that carries (or is
exposed to) a strong radio frequency field may become
an antenna that emits or becomes victim to that energy.
Of the three, electromagnetic is the strongest and most
prevalent noise propagation mode from wire to wire.
Electrostatic is next and electromagnetic is last in terms
of probability for system integration problems having to
do with "noise".
A simple and extremely effective means for reducing
potential for either victimhood or antagonistic participation
in a noise problem is to make sure that every electron that
travels one way in a circuit is paired in close proximity
with another electron in the same circuit but traveling the
opposite direction. The twisting of an outbound and inbound
current path is easy to do and offers a high degree of
isolation for the electromagnetic coupling case . . . and
offers some benefit for the other cases as well.
Having said that, know also that there are very few instances
where noise mitigation processes are automatically called for
as a good design practice. I mentioned it for the EL panels
only because I had a noise issue on a big Piper about 20 years
ago where EL inverter noise was getting into the audio system
and we fixed the problem by twisting the pairs of wires that
ran from the distribution connector out to an array of
individual EL panels.
This was not intended to cause anyone to be concerned for
having not twisted any wires in other situations. The
major risk situations are generally taken care of in
the installation instructions for the systems . . . so
don't run off and start twisting things before we talk
about it here on the List.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 17
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Bob,
Is there a down side to twisting besides the $time$ issue?
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert
L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: twisted wires
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 09:50 AM 2/13/2007 -0500, you wrote:
<dfultz7@earthlink.net>
>
>I am new to some of this wiring,, where all should twisted wires be used
>when doing the aircraft wiring,, Thanks Dale
There are three ways that a wire can become an efficient
receptor or radiator of noise.
Electromagnetic - Close proximity of a potential victim
wire to a wire that carries strong -AND- dynamic
current will magnetically couple a component of that
current in the form of "noise".
Electrostatic - Close proximity of a potential victim
to a wire that carries a strong -AND- dynamic voltage
will electrostatically (capacitively) couple a component
of that voltage in the form of "noise".
Electromagnetic Radiation - A wire that carries (or is
exposed to) a strong radio frequency field may become
an antenna that emits or becomes victim to that energy.
Of the three, electromagnetic is the strongest and most
prevalent noise propagation mode from wire to wire.
Electrostatic is next and electromagnetic is last in terms
of probability for system integration problems having to
do with "noise".
A simple and extremely effective means for reducing
potential for either victimhood or antagonistic participation
in a noise problem is to make sure that every electron that
travels one way in a circuit is paired in close proximity
with another electron in the same circuit but traveling the
opposite direction. The twisting of an outbound and inbound
current path is easy to do and offers a high degree of
isolation for the electromagnetic coupling case . . . and
offers some benefit for the other cases as well.
Having said that, know also that there are very few instances
where noise mitigation processes are automatically called for
as a good design practice. I mentioned it for the EL panels
only because I had a noise issue on a big Piper about 20 years
ago where EL inverter noise was getting into the audio system
and we fixed the problem by twisting the pairs of wires that
ran from the distribution connector out to an array of
individual EL panels.
This was not intended to cause anyone to be concerned for
having not twisted any wires in other situations. The
major risk situations are generally taken care of in
the installation instructions for the systems . . . so
don't run off and start twisting things before we talk
about it here on the List.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | NAV audio hum - simple question |
I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
(on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
(mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
running?
If so, my choices are
1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
"normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
which I would like to avoid.
Thanks for any educated responses!
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 19
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| Subject: | NAV audio hum - simple question |
As a short-term solution, why not just turn off NAV audio by pushing the
VLOC volume knob? Or you can just turn down the volume with the same knob.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Mitchell Faatz
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:16 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: NAV audio hum - simple question
I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
(on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
(mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
running?
If so, my choices are
1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
"normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
which I would like to avoid.
Thanks for any educated responses!
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: NAV audio hum - simple question |
The hum is present with the NAV audio all the way down.
Bill Denton wrote:
>
> As a short-term solution, why not just turn off NAV audio by pushing the
> VLOC volume knob? Or you can just turn down the volume with the same knob.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Mitchell Faatz
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:16 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: NAV audio hum - simple question
>
>
>
> I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
> (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
> millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
> about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
> turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
> because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
> (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
> warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
> T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
> ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
> and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
>
> Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
> running?
>
> If so, my choices are
> 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
> a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
> "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
> 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
> which I would like to avoid.
>
> Thanks for any educated responses!
> Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | And now for something completely different..... |
Their site says they will have pricing next month and they are going to
be at a few of the big fly-ins this year. Don't know if I would want to
be an early adopter though.
Michael
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyd
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: And now for something completely
different.....
Very interesting indeed, but not available until August; not even a
price hint.
On 2/13/07, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
Looks to be very interesting.....
http://www.verticalpower.com/
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Limbo
Do not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: NAV audio hum - simple question |
Maybe I'm not envisioning this right (my mind is fried trying to get
through a bug at work) but the filter you described sounds like a low pass
filter. I think you would want a high pass filter assuming that you don't
ultimately track this down to some other problem somewhere else.
Like I said, I could just be thinking about it all wrong due to not enough
coffee and too much thinking today :)
-John
www.ballofshame.com
> <mitch@skybound.com>
>
> I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
> (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
> millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
> about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
> turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
> because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
> (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
> warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
> T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
> ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
> and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
>
> Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
> running?
>
> If so, my choices are
> 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
> a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
> "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
> 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
> which I would like to avoid.
>
> Thanks for any educated responses!
> Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | NAV audio hum - simple question |
If you are not getting any "nav audio" with the volume knob turned all of
the way down, one would suspect that the problem lies outside of the
radio...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
Mitchell Faatz
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 4:07 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: NAV audio hum - simple question
The hum is present with the NAV audio all the way down.
Bill Denton wrote:
<bdenton@bdenton.com>
>
> As a short-term solution, why not just turn off NAV audio by pushing the
> VLOC volume knob? Or you can just turn down the volume with the same knob.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> Mitchell Faatz
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 3:16 PM
> To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: NAV audio hum - simple question
>
>
<mitch@skybound.com>
>
> I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
> (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
> millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
> about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
> turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
> because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
> (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
> warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
> T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
> ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
> and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
>
> Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
> running?
>
> If so, my choices are
> 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
> a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
> "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
> 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
> which I would like to avoid.
>
> Thanks for any educated responses!
> Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: NAV audio hum - simple question |
Never mind. You definately don't want to get rid of 500hz and 1500hz.
LOL...divide by 10 problem on my end.
Where's my coffee?....
-John
www.ballofshame.com
>
> Maybe I'm not envisioning this right (my mind is fried trying to get
> through a bug at work) but the filter you described sounds like a low pass
> filter. I think you would want a high pass filter assuming that you don't
> ultimately track this down to some other problem somewhere else.
>
> Like I said, I could just be thinking about it all wrong due to not enough
> coffee and too much thinking today :)
>
> -John
> www.ballofshame.com
>
>> <mitch@skybound.com>
>>
>> I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
>> (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
>> millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
>> about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
>> turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care,
>> because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present
>> (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic
>> warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a
>> T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to
>> ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones
>> and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question:
>>
>> Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
>> running?
>>
>> If so, my choices are
>> 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have
>> a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered
>> "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
>> 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel,
>> which I would like to avoid.
>>
>> Thanks for any educated responses!
>> Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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|
I wired both mags to a hidden switch which grounds the mags. Engine cranks,
but never fires with the hidden switch in the ground position. I mounted
the switch such that forward the plugs fire and rearward the engine won't
start. I have a similar arrangement on my classic cars.
Pete
RV-6
Clearwater
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Theft Deterrent |
In a message dated 2/13/2007 5:09:24 P.M. Central Standard Time,
PeterHunt1@aol.com writes:
I wired both mags to a hidden switch which grounds the mags. Engine cranks,
but never fires with the hidden switch in the ground position. I mounted
the switch such that forward the plugs fire and rearward the engine won't
start. I have a similar arrangement on my classic cars.
Pete
RV-6
Clearwater
Ok Pete,
When I want to steal your RV. I will be sure to bring along a pair of dikes
to cut the P lead wires!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
Message 27
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At 03:00 PM 2/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
> Is there a down side to twisting besides the $time$ issue?
Nope, never hurts . . . well, it WOULD increase the cross section
of a wire bundle.
Bob . . .
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: NAV audio hum - simple question |
At 01:16 PM 2/13/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin
>(on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60
>millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care
>about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically
>turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care, because
>I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present (mixed by
>Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic warnings). I can
>knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a T-Pass filter of
>sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to ground in the
>middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones and stereo
>music, and here is the million dollar question:
>
>Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is
>running?
>
>If so, my choices are
>1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have a
>bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered "normal" by
>them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks.
>2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel, which
>I would like to avoid.
Hmmmm . . . you may well be experiencing one of those
unforeseen consequences of quantum technology jumps.
For years, I've been able to sit in cockpits of some
REALLY expensive airplanes and hear things in the phones
that (to my way of thinking at least) shouldn't be audible.
Indeed, once the engines are running and you've got wind
noise blowing over the the fuselage, the ambient noises
overpowered the offending noises.
More than one customer has complained about hearing
things they'd never heard before after installing a
good noise cancelling headset system. It may be that
Garmin will readily admit to the "noise" being
present but still well within any published signal
to noise ratio specifications. Those frequencies sound
like they might be associated with the "AC" voltages
needed to drive LCD screens.
If push comes to the hard place, it may take a couple
of notch filters to attenuate them to acceptable if
not inaudible levels. I'll have to remember to ask
the customer support techs if they've had any cases
of unacceptable noise level complaints resulting from
the installation of super headsets!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | 14 V Voltmeter Markings |
Can anyone tell me what the proper range marks are for a 14 V aircraft voltmeter?
Thanks!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94864#94864
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Electroluminescent Light Strip |
I used http://www.e-lite.com and cut the strip into 3 pieces. Thay can
be daisy chained but it was easier to just wire them in parallel for me.
I had some temporary issues with moisture contamination or something at
the cuts but all worked out fine. The installation directions for most
of the inverters that I looked at specified a specific range of square
inches of luminescent strip for proper inverter operation. Off the top
of my head it was something like 28 to 38 in2 for the inverter that I
used. The square wave inverter output went up to about 180 volts so I
did twist the wires together ;)
Ken
Chris Byrne wrote:
>
>I have a 36 inch electroluminescent light strip. It will not follow the
>contour of my glareshield so I have to cut it.
>
>If I cut it in half will it be the same brightness as it was if left at the
>original 36 inches. Or will it use the same amount of power (as supplied by
>its inverter) make this smaller length twice as bright. At the moment it
>illuminates at about the correct level without having to use a dimmer.
>
>Also can I join the second piece to the first using two short lengths of
>wire as I may be able to use it in another location. If this works should I
>link the two pieces together or should I run separate wires from the
>inverter.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Chris Byrne
>SYDNEY
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
I'll try and get it packed up as soon as practical, but I've got a lot of
irons in the fire this week, and it might well be Saturday before I can get
it on it's way.
William
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . .
--> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 05:51 AM 2/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
>
>Battery Tender has quite a few different models, and the info on their
>website indicates that they use different charging algorithms. I could
>not find the "021-0123" model number on the Deltran website, but
>judging by the 0.8A rating, it would be a Battery Tender Jr.. I have a
>Battery Tender Plus, which is rated at 1.25A, and uses a different
>charging algorithm than the Jr., and the charging profile shown for it
>on the Deltran Technical Info page looks a lot more like the curve you
>got from the Schumacher. I'd be willing to loan mine out for a test run
>if you want.
Sounds like a deal to me. I was surprised that when I discharged
the test battery after charging with the Battery Tender Jr, the battery
gave up about the same energy as it did for the initial discharge.
Just over 12AH at the 3.0A rate.
I'd appreciate having access to your BT+ to include in the
series of experiments. I'll be sharing the data from the tests
with folks at Concord too. Their battery gurus will be able
to put the sanity check on our results.
If you could ship your charger to me at 6936 Bainbridge,
Wichita, KS 67226 I should be able to get it back to you
in a day or so after receiving it.
Bob . . .
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: 14 V Voltmeter Markings |
At 04:22 PM 2/13/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me what the proper range marks are for a 14 V aircraft
>voltmeter?
>
>Thanks!
The term "proper" may be debated by some but
here's how I marked the expanded scale voltmeter
we used to sell . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Instruments/loadvolt.jpg
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 33
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| Subject: | Battery Tenders as recharging tools . . . |
At 09:30 PM 2/13/2007 -0600, you wrote:
><willslau@alumni.rice.edu>
>
>I'll try and get it packed up as soon as practical, but I've got a lot of
>irons in the fire this week, and it might well be Saturday before I can get
>it on it's way.
No big hurry, this test equipment isn't going anywhere.
Bob . . .
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