---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 02/16/07: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:14 AM - Re: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators (Ernest Christley) 2. 06:21 AM - Re: Poor man's DAS (John and Kim Lumkes) 3. 06:41 AM - Re: Poor man's DAS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 4. 07:05 AM - 24v vs 27 volt power supplies (rtitsworth) 5. 08:09 AM - Re: 24v vs 27 volt power supplies (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 6. 09:19 AM - FW: voltmeter switch (kesleyelectric) 7. 10:01 AM - Re: FW: voltmeter switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 10:45 AM - Re: 24v vs 27 volt power supplies (Walter Fellows) 9. 10:53 AM - To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 10. 11:15 AM - Re: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 11. 11:35 AM - Re: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Konrad L. Werner) 12. 11:53 AM - Re: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)) 13. 12:21 PM - Re: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Konrad L. Werner) 14. 05:42 PM - Re: Re: Speaker termination (Bill Maxwell) 15. 07:20 PM - Will SVLA charge on a sustaining voltage? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 16. 08:59 PM - Com issues - resolved () ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:06 AM PST US From: Ernest Christley Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators Tim Andres wrote: > >Can any one tell if the duty cycle on a PWM will equate at least roughly >with motor speed? ie will a 20% duty cycle slow the motor down to >approximately %20 or does it not work that way? I have a linear actuator for >pitch trim that that travels 2"/sec, I need about .5"/sec. >Thanks, Tim Andres > > > MPJA sells a motor control unit that does exactly that and at just over $12, I don't think you can beat the price. http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=6067+KT -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org | ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:08 AM PST US From: "John and Kim Lumkes" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Poor man's DAS Kevin, High Temps: Standard thermocouples with a an Analog Device AD594 or similar Low Temps: many options, I use a LM34, outputs degrees F in mV with a 5V supply Cheap Low precision distance: Sharp IR GP2D120 Low pressures: check Jameco or similar, search Keywords for pressure sensor; they have several Motorola Freescale 0-1.45psi for 8-14 dollars. You can directly measure a thermocouple output with a good 16bit A/D converter; probably not directly with the labjack. This is only a small sampling of the exploding field of "cheap" electronics, very capable linear IC circuits, and little programmable controllers. Bob and John, Thank you very much for the recommendation for the Labjack. This unit should allow me to add some missing items to my flight test data. John - where do you purchase suitable, affordable, robust transducers? I'm looking to measure some temperatures, and flight control positions. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:05 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Poor man's DAS At 07:49 PM 2/15/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >Bob and John, > >Thank you very much for the recommendation for the Labjack. This >unit should allow me to add some missing items to my flight test data. > >John - where do you purchase suitable, affordable, robust >transducers? I'm looking to measure some temperatures, and flight >control positions. For temperatures up to 150C consider the LM135 series devices by National. These are voltage sensitive zeners with a regulation voltage of 10mv/degree-K. You can bias these little fellers up with a single resistor pull-up to 5v. The measured voltage at 25C is (273+25)x10 = 2.980 volts. For higher temperatures, my favorite jelly-bean is the AD596/597 series thermocouple to 10mv/degree-C converter chips. For control positions, consider "string pots" or "draw string pots". These are spring loaded drums of fine cable mounted on a potentiometer. See: http://www.dataq.com/support/documentation/pdf/article_pdfs/stringpotan.pdf http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Data_Acquisition/String-Pot.jpg Here's one I made using a piece of retraction spring from a pocket tape measure, a miniature RV-4 series potentiometer and some odd bits of aluminum stock. The "cable" is 7-strand u-control flying wire from a hobby shop. This was used to measure a stroke of about 1/2" on the master brake cylinders of a cockpit simulator. You can measure longer strokes by using multi-turn pots. The metal work is pretty straightforward. These can be had as purchased items. See: http://www.globalspec.com/FeaturedProducts/Detail/celesco/Compact_String_Pot_SP1/29565/0?fromSpotlight=1 http://www.unimeasure.com/ http://www.impresssensors.co.uk/draw-wire.htm They're not inexpensive. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:26 AM PST US From: "rtitsworth" Subject: AeroElectric-List: 24v vs 27 volt power supplies Bob, etal, I'm building a 24v (28v) experimental aircraft power system (Z14-dual battery-dual bus) using a "series" of 18Ah 12v RG batteries for each 24v "battery". I currently do not own a 24V battery charger. Since I do not generally plan on re-charging the batteries often, I was planning on charging them (individually or in parallel) (when necessary) with a 12 volt charger (which I currently own). I've also thought of purchasing one of the smaller 24v 1Amp battery tenders for easy top off and/or 90% charging when time allows. However, I'd like to have a 24v (28v) power source for bench testing and hanger testing/training. Assume a required current draw rate of 10-20 Amps for perhaps several hours at a time. Thus, I'm assuming the 1Amp rate of the tender will be insufficient/undesirable, even if hooked to the fully charged batteries, as the batteries could get drawn down pretty low after a couple hours (and I don't want to abuse my new batteries). Thus, I am considering getting a 24v (28v) benchtop power supply or (full size) 24v battery charger. Ideally, I'd like to use the power supply (or charger) with the plane (in the hanger with elec equipment installed) and at home for bench testing. I (ignorantly) envision two alternatives: 1] Get a 24v battery charger and also use it as a bench testing power supply. (or...) 2] Get a 24v (or 27v) power supply for bench testing and also connect it to the plane's ground power jack for in-plane electronics testing/training. What are the ramifications of using a 24v battery charger as a 24v power supply for bench testing aircraft avionics (@ home without a battery)? I realize the output will be more like 28v - but I'm assuming the avionics will be happy with that. Will it even work? What if I used a couple of old auto batteries at home to "quiet/buffer" the charger? Or alternatively, if I get a benchtop power supply (10-20 amps'ish), should I get a 24v model or 27v model? Seems the 24v model might still abuse/exercise the airplane batteries a bit since the actual resting battery voltage might be slightly above 24v until they are drawn down some. Seems however that the 27v model might get a bit overloaded if the batteries aren't fully charged when the power supply is attached as it will try and lift (charge) the batteries to 27v (ASAP-unregulated). Other advantages/disadvantages and considerations? Or, perhaps these are a couple of naive thoughts (i.e. a "little" knowledge can be dangerous). p.s. The thought crossed my mind the in lieu of a build-log I'd just submit a sequential list of all my naive questions to this (very helpful) forum (lol) - i.e. the FAA 51% education and recreation mandate. Seems there's no end to the learning opportunities here, thanks all in advance. Rick ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:59 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24v vs 27 volt power supplies At 10:04 AM 2/16/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bob, etal, > >I'm building a 24v (28v) experimental aircraft power system (Z14-dual >battery-dual bus) using a "series" of 18Ah 12v RG batteries for each 24v >"battery". >I currently do not own a 24V battery charger. >Since I do not generally plan on re-charging the batteries often, I was >planning on charging them (individually or in parallel) (when necessary) >with a 12 volt charger (which I currently own). You can do this. Batteries charge based on impressed terminal voltage. In days of old, service stations and auto-parts stores had many batteries sharing a single power supply for maintaining many batteries in a ready to sell state. Similarly, a battery charger of any size has no way of knowing how many batteries are connected . . . the act of adding more individual batteries appears no differently to the charger than if you'd simply connected a single, larger battery. >I've also thought of purchasing one of the smaller 24v 1Amp battery tenders >for easy top off and/or 90% charging when time allows. Early results of experiments we're conducting right now suggest that the line of Lilliputian chargers known as Battery Tenders, Battery Minders, et. als. ARE capable of fully charging a battery of any practical size . . . if you have the patience. I'll have a better definition of this assertion in a few days. >However, I'd like to have a 24v (28v) power source for bench testing and >hanger testing/training. Assume a required current draw rate of 10-20 Amps >for perhaps several hours at a time. Thus, I'm assuming the 1Amp rate of >the tender will be insufficient/undesirable, even if hooked to the fully >charged batteries, as the batteries could get drawn down pretty low after a >couple hours (and I don't want to abuse my new batteries). Yeah . . . I wish you hadn't bought new batteries for your shop work . . . It was hard to stand in the booth at OSH and watch folks walk away with brand new batteries after having revealed that they were a year or more away from flying. Nonetheless, it's quite possible to keep these critters reasonably 'fresh' in anticipation of first flight. Your 20A requirement is pretty severe. What kind of electrowhizzy takes that much snort? If this is a real requirement, the options get expensive. You might be able to find some surplus power supplies. 24v are common in outputs of up to 10A. Here's a 28V power supply: http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=16033+PS These can be paralleled so if you can find some really cheap ones as industrial surplus, you can parallel for more snort. This on is unusual in that it's rated at 28V output . . . 24 is more common but those will run your goodies just fine. Keep in mind that your 24 v battery starts out at 25 volts and goes down from there. 22v is 95% used up. So your electrowhizzies should run just fine from a 24.0 volt supply. >Or alternatively, if I get a benchtop power supply (10-20 amps'ish), should >I get a 24v model or 27v model? Seems the 24v model might still >abuse/exercise the airplane batteries a bit since the actual resting battery >voltage might be slightly above 24v until they are drawn down some. Seems >however that the 27v model might get a bit overloaded if the batteries >aren't fully charged when the power supply is attached as it will try and >lift (charge) the batteries to 27v (ASAP-unregulated). If you get a real technician's power supply, it will be adjustable voltage and current limit and very quiet for use as a stand along supply. HOWEVER . . . take care in using bench supplies to charge batteries. For example, when deprived of AC input power (switch turned off or power fails) some supplies will go into ov trip (crowbar) and put a dead short across the battery. Very smelly smoke. Consider a surplus supply like this: http://tinyurl.com/2lrw8e I have several critters like this around the shop and they're quite useful for doing ANY task. The really neat feature is adjustable current limiting. You can set the supply's output so that should the unfortunate fault occur, energy delivered into the system is not capable burning things. >p.s. The thought crossed my mind the in lieu of a build-log I'd just submit >a sequential list of all my naive questions to this (very helpful) forum >(lol) - i.e. the FAA 51% education and recreation mandate. Seems there's no >end to the learning opportunities here, thanks all in advance. You got that right. KNOWLEDGE is essentially free, EDUCATION is always expensive. Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:19:55 AM PST US From: "kesleyelectric" Subject: AeroElectric-List: FW: voltmeter switch _____ From: kesleyelectric [mailto:kesleyelectric@chooseblue.coop] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 11:14 AM Subject: voltmeter switch Bob and list, In a reply a few days ago, it was suggested that a voltmeter on the endurance bus would be a good idea to monitor the health of the battery and the SD8 during alternator out operation. Rather than installing a second voltmeter, I am considering using a 2-3 switch for the e-bus alternate feed and wiring it as shown on the attached diagram. The voltmeter is a UMA "steam gauge". The voltmeter would read the voltage on the appropriate bus, according to the position of the switch. Feedback welcome. Regards, Tom Barter Avid Magnum ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:01:48 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: FW: voltmeter switch > >Bob and list, >In a reply a few days ago, it was suggested that a voltmeter on the >endurance bus would be a good idea to monitor the health of the battery >and the SD8 during alternator out operation. Rather than installing a >second voltmeter, I am considering using a 2-3 switch for the e-bus >alternate feed and wiring it as shown on the attached diagram. The >voltmeter is a UMA "steam gauge". The voltmeter would read the voltage on >the appropriate bus, according to the position of the switch. > >Feedback welcome. > >Regards, That's how I would do it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:12 AM PST US From: "Walter Fellows" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: 24v vs 27 volt power supplies Bob Thanks, this comprehensive guide to power supplies is very helpful. I run into relatively high amperage surplus units from time to time but have never been quite sure of what features to look for. Walter On 2/16/07, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > > nuckollsr@cox.net> > > At 10:04 AM 2/16/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > >Bob, etal, > > > >I'm building a 24v (28v) experimental aircraft power system (Z14-dual > >battery-dual bus) using a "series" of 18Ah 12v RG batteries for each 24v > >"battery". > > >I currently do not own a 24V battery charger. > > > >Since I do not generally plan on re-charging the batteries often, I was > >planning on charging them (individually or in parallel) (when necessary) > >with a 12 volt charger (which I currently own). > > You can do this. Batteries charge based on impressed terminal > voltage. In days of old, service stations and auto-parts stores > had many batteries sharing a single power supply for maintaining > many batteries in a ready to sell state. Similarly, a battery > charger of any size has no way of knowing how many batteries > are connected . . . the act of adding more individual batteries > appears no differently to the charger than if you'd simply connected > a single, larger battery. > > > >I've also thought of purchasing one of the smaller 24v 1Amp battery > tenders > >for easy top off and/or 90% charging when time allows. > > Early results of experiments we're conducting right now suggest > that the line of Lilliputian chargers known as Battery Tenders, > Battery Minders, et. als. ARE capable of fully charging a battery > of any practical size . . . if you have the patience. I'll have > a better definition of this assertion in a few days. > > > >However, I'd like to have a 24v (28v) power source for bench testing and > >hanger testing/training. Assume a required current draw rate of 10-20 > Amps > >for perhaps several hours at a time. Thus, I'm assuming the 1Amp rate of > >the tender will be insufficient/undesirable, even if hooked to the fully > >charged batteries, as the batteries could get drawn down pretty low after > a > >couple hours (and I don't want to abuse my new batteries). > > Yeah . . . I wish you hadn't bought new batteries for your > shop work . . . It was hard to stand in the booth at OSH > and watch folks walk away with brand new batteries after > having revealed that they were a year or more away from > flying. Nonetheless, it's quite possible to keep these > critters reasonably 'fresh' in anticipation of first > flight. > > Your 20A requirement is pretty severe. What kind of > electrowhizzy takes that much snort? If this is a real > requirement, the options get expensive. > > You might be able to find some surplus power supplies. > 24v are common in outputs of up to 10A. Here's a 28V > power supply: > > http://mpja.com/productview.asp?product=16033+PS > > These can be paralleled so if you can find some > really cheap ones as industrial surplus, you can > parallel for more snort. This on is unusual in that > it's rated at 28V output . . . 24 is more common > but those will run your goodies just fine. Keep in > mind that your 24 v battery starts out at 25 volts > and goes down from there. 22v is 95% used up. So > your electrowhizzies should run just fine from a > 24.0 volt supply. > > > > >Or alternatively, if I get a benchtop power supply (10-20 amps'ish), > should > >I get a 24v model or 27v model? Seems the 24v model might still > >abuse/exercise the airplane batteries a bit since the actual resting > battery > >voltage might be slightly above 24v until they are drawn down > some. Seems > >however that the 27v model might get a bit overloaded if the batteries > >aren't fully charged when the power supply is attached as it will try and > >lift (charge) the batteries to 27v (ASAP-unregulated). > > If you get a real technician's power supply, it > will be adjustable voltage and current limit and > very quiet for use as a stand along supply. > > HOWEVER . . . take care in using bench supplies > to charge batteries. For example, when deprived of > AC input power (switch turned off or power fails) > some supplies will go into ov trip (crowbar) and > put a dead short across the battery. Very smelly > smoke. Consider a surplus supply like this: > > http://tinyurl.com/2lrw8e > > I have several critters like this around the shop > and they're quite useful for doing ANY task. The really > neat feature is adjustable current limiting. You > can set the supply's output so that should the > unfortunate fault occur, energy delivered into > the system is not capable burning things. > > > >p.s. The thought crossed my mind the in lieu of a build-log I'd just > submit > >a sequential list of all my naive questions to this (very helpful) forum > >(lol) - i.e. the FAA 51% education and recreation mandate. Seems there's > no > >end to the learning opportunities here, thanks all in advance. > > > You got that right. KNOWLEDGE is essentially free, > EDUCATION is always expensive. > > Bob . . . > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:53:42 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Bob, >I have been watching at the Aeroelectric Connection every now and then. >Got a quick few questions for you: > >Would a SD-8 Alternator (which I already have!) be enough to supply two >Odyssey PC-680 batteries in a basic VFR Airplane? >I plan on having a comm-radio, a transponder, a GPS, one electronic >ignition, and perhaps a TruTraks ADI/Autopilot. Engine Monitoring is via >various of Vans engine related gauges. > >Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't plan to >fly at nighttime. Any thoughts? Unless you PLAN to have a vacuum system and the panel mounted hardware that goes along with it, then you have a perfectly good, engine driven power available to do something else. To my way of thinking, the cost (about $400) and weight (under 4#) is a fairly low cost investment to achieve system ENDURANCE that our TC flying brothers can only salivate over. Now, if you don't fly at night and given the weight in lead you're willing to carry, perhaps the $400/4# investment has little if any promise of return. That's a call you'll have to make. With a second alternator, could you consider dropping to one battery? That 4# more to delete 16# for a net change of 12# in the right direction. Perhaps the investment is now more attractive. I'll suggest you get on the AeroElectric List and discuss this with the folks who are wrestling with the same questions. > >Also, what is the latest edition of your Aeroelectric Book and what is the >current cost? It's up to Revision 11. If you have an R10 book you can update it at no charge with downloadable docuements at: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html The book can be ordered at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" Put it this way, I have a fuel injected electric wing pumps only, IFR panel with no vacuum system. At 2600RPM I can just run the 430, a single fuel pump and all the instruments and still maintain better than 12V. The SD-8 is making nearer 12A in my opinion, So yeah in a VFR only airplane with a mechanical fuel the SD-8 is more than adequate Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. --> At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Bob, >I have been watching at the Aeroelectric Connection every now and then. >Got a quick few questions for you: > >Would a SD-8 Alternator (which I already have!) be enough to supply two >Odyssey PC-680 batteries in a basic VFR Airplane? >I plan on having a comm-radio, a transponder, a GPS, one electronic >ignition, and perhaps a TruTraks ADI/Autopilot. Engine Monitoring is >via various of Vans engine related gauges. > >Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't plan to >fly at nighttime. Any thoughts? Unless you PLAN to have a vacuum system and the panel mounted hardware that goes along with it, then you have a perfectly good, engine driven power available to do something else. To my way of thinking, the cost (about $400) and weight (under 4#) is a fairly low cost investment to achieve system ENDURANCE that our TC flying brothers can only salivate over. Now, if you don't fly at night and given the weight in lead you're willing to carry, perhaps the $400/4# investment has little if any promise of return. That's a call you'll have to make. With a second alternator, could you consider dropping to one battery? That 4# more to delete 16# for a net change of 12# in the right direction. Perhaps the investment is now more attractive. I'll suggest you get on the AeroElectric List and discuss this with the folks who are wrestling with the same questions. > >Also, what is the latest edition of your Aeroelectric Book and what is >the current cost? It's up to Revision 11. If you have an R10 book you can update it at no charge with downloadable docuements at: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html The book can be ordered at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:31 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. Hi Frank, Where did you get the # of 12 Amp. for the SD-8 in a Lycoming? Konrad ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Corvallis)" Put it this way, I have a fuel injected electric wing pumps only, IFR panel with no vacuum system. At 2600RPM I can just run the 430, a single fuel pump and all the instruments and still maintain better than 12V. The SD-8 is making nearer 12A in my opinion, So yeah in a VFR only airplane with a mechanical fuel the SD-8 is more than adequate Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. --> At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Bob, >I have been watching at the Aeroelectric Connection every now and then. >Got a quick few questions for you: > >Would a SD-8 Alternator (which I already have!) be enough to supply two >Odyssey PC-680 batteries in a basic VFR Airplane? >I plan on having a comm-radio, a transponder, a GPS, one electronic >ignition, and perhaps a TruTraks ADI/Autopilot. Engine Monitoring is >via various of Vans engine related gauges. > >Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't plan to >fly at nighttime. Any thoughts? Unless you PLAN to have a vacuum system and the panel mounted hardware that goes along with it, then you have a perfectly good, engine driven power available to do something else. To my way of thinking, the cost (about $400) and weight (under 4#) is a fairly low cost investment to achieve system ENDURANCE that our TC flying brothers can only salivate over. Now, if you don't fly at night and given the weight in lead you're willing to carry, perhaps the $400/4# investment has little if any promise of return. That's a call you'll have to make. With a second alternator, could you consider dropping to one battery? That 4# more to delete 16# for a net change of 12# in the right direction. Perhaps the investment is now more attractive. I'll suggest you get on the AeroElectric List and discuss this with the folks who are wrestling with the same questions. > >Also, what is the latest edition of your Aeroelectric Book and what is >the current cost? It's up to Revision 11. If you have an R10 book you can update it at no charge with downloadable docuements at: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html The book can be ordered at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" >From the known loads of my electrical components, fule pump was measured at about 4A, GNS 430 at about 3.5 and so on...It maybe that some of the published amperages of equipment are on the conservative side. So do I know an SD-8 makes 12A?...No I don't for sure but annecdotally i think its making quite a bit more than 8A. Cheers Frank ________________________________ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad L. Werner Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. Hi Frank, Where did you get the # of 12 Amp. for the SD-8 in a Lycoming? Konrad ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Corvallis)" Put it this way, I have a fuel injected electric wing pumps only, IFR panel with no vacuum system. At 2600RPM I can just run the 430, a single fuel pump and all the instruments and still maintain better than 12V. The SD-8 is making nearer 12A in my opinion, So yeah in a VFR only airplane with a mechanical fuel the SD-8 is more than adequate Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. III" --> At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Bob, >I have been watching at the Aeroelectric Connection every now and then. >Got a quick few questions for you: > >Would a SD-8 Alternator (which I already have!) be enough to supply two >Odyssey PC-680 batteries in a basic VFR Airplane? >I plan on having a comm-radio, a transponder, a GPS, one electronic >ignition, and perhaps a TruTraks ADI/Autopilot. Engine Monitoring is >via various of Vans engine related gauges. > >Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't plan to >fly at nighttime. Any thoughts? Unless you PLAN to have a vacuum system and the panel mounted hardware that goes along with it, then you have a perfectly good, engine driven power available to do something else. To my way of thinking, the cost (about $400) and weight (under 4#) is a fairly low cost investment to achieve system ENDURANCE that our TC flying brothers can only salivate over. Now, if you don't fly at night and given the weight in lead you're willing to carry, perhaps the $400/4# investment has little if any promise of return. That's a call you'll have to make. With a second alternator, could you consider dropping to one battery? That 4# more to delete 16# for a net change of 12# in the right direction. Perhaps the investment is now more attractive. I'll suggest you get on the AeroElectric List and discuss this with the folks who are wrestling with the same questions. > >Also, what is the latest edition of your Aeroelectric Book and what is >the current cost? It's up to Revision 11. If you have an R10 book you can update it at no charge with downloadable docuements at: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html The book can be ordered at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- nbsp; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. p ; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:52 PM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. Well, from the B&C website it shows the SD-8 to deliver 8.4Amps at 3500 RPM, which geared by 1.3 at the vacuum pad gives you roughly 2700 Engine RPM. Perhaps the loads of your equipment are max. numbers for worst case scenario? Who knows... do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:51 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. From the known loads of my electrical components, fule pump was measured at about 4A, GNS 430 at about 3.5 and so on...It maybe that some of the published amperages of equipment are on the conservative side. So do I know an SD-8 makes 12A?...No I don't for sure but annecdotally i think its making quite a bit more than 8A. Cheers Frank ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad L. Werner Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:34 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. Hi Frank, Where did you get the # of 12 Amp. for the SD-8 in a Lycoming? Konrad ----- Original Message ----- From: Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis) To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 12:14 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. (Corvallis)" Put it this way, I have a fuel injected electric wing pumps only, IFR panel with no vacuum system. At 2600RPM I can just run the 430, a single fuel pump and all the instruments and still maintain better than 12V. The SD-8 is making nearer 12A in my opinion, So yeah in a VFR only airplane with a mechanical fuel the SD-8 is more than adequate Frank -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:53 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: To SD-8 or NOT to SD-8 . . . that is the question. --> At 11:31 AM 2/16/2007 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Bob, >I have been watching at the Aeroelectric Connection every now and then. >Got a quick few questions for you: > >Would a SD-8 Alternator (which I already have!) be enough to supply two >Odyssey PC-680 batteries in a basic VFR Airplane? >I plan on having a comm-radio, a transponder, a GPS, one electronic >ignition, and perhaps a TruTraks ADI/Autopilot. Engine Monitoring is >via various of Vans engine related gauges. > >Oh, and Nav-Lights/Strobes for collision avoidance, but I don't plan to >fly at nighttime. Any thoughts? Unless you PLAN to have a vacuum system and the panel mounted hardware that goes along with it, then you have a perfectly good, engine driven power available to do something else. To my way of thinking, the cost (about $400) and weight (under 4#) is a fairly low cost investment to achieve system ENDURANCE that our TC flying brothers can only salivate over. Now, if you don't fly at night and given the weight in lead you're willing to carry, perhaps the $400/4# investment has little if any promise of return. That's a call you'll have to make. With a second alternator, could you consider dropping to one battery? That 4# more to delete 16# for a net change of 12# in the right direction. Perhaps the investment is now more attractive. I'll suggest you get on the AeroElectric List and discuss this with the folks who are wrestling with the same questions. > >Also, what is the latest edition of your Aeroelectric Book and what is >the current cost? It's up to Revision 11. If you have an R10 book you can update it at no charge with downloadable docuements at: http://aeroelectric.com/whatsnew.html The book can be ordered at: http://aeroelectric.com/Catalog/AECcatalog.html Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- nbsp; Features Subscriptions href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. p; available via href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www. matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:52 PM PST US From: "Bill Maxwell" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Speaker termination You can safely leave the dummy load resistor out. Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 11:09 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Speaker termination > > > At 09:07 AM 2/15/2007 -0500, you wrote: > >>Hi Bob, >> I'm about to close up the front of my "9" and there is a pair of >>wires coming from the Icom A200 for an external speaker. Should I >>terminate them with a resistor or just leave them open. I do not intend >>to utilize a speaker in the cockpit. > > Good for you. Refer to the instruction manual. If they > don't call out a dummy load, you can just leave it open. > Actually, the few radios I've see that called for a dummy > load on unused outputs would probably have been quit > stable without it. > > The only think I can think of that would prompt a designer > to require loading an unused input is to accommodate > an output stage instability under light loads. Modern > audio amplifier ships don't have this problem. > > Bob . . . > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:57 PM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Will SVLA charge on a sustaining voltage? After a 3.0A discharge to 11.0 volts where the battery delivered at total of 11.2 ah of capacity, I connected the battery to a 13.0 volt power supply and waited 18+ hours until the 're-charge' current was down to under 30 milliampers. A subsequent 3.0A discharge produced only 8.8 AH of useful output. The same battery is back on a Battery Tender Jr for another charge/discharge cycle. This experiment suggests that there's something to the notion of carrying the battery's recharge profile up to the point where rate-of-change for voltage takes the upward inflection which is the battery's way of letting the outside world know that it's getting pretty close to full. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:05 PM PST US From: Subject: AeroElectric-List: Com issues - resolved Well gang...it's fixed. I added 150ohm resistors to all input audio leads into the panel. Everything is living together quite nicely now. I guess something in the combination was not playing well with the new radio. However, there was one wild card that might also have something to do with it. While I was removing, moving, installing, and re-installing the pins in the 134's connector, one of the ground leads (mic I think) broke off a pin. I was forced to strip and crimp a new molex pin on there and re-secure. This was done in the same operation as the resistors. After all that, the audio was loud and clear with all radios mixed in, regardless of the combination. I'm not convinced this was the issue, since the radio did work correctly by itself. So...was it the resistors?...was it a bad ground?...was it a gremlin? Personally, I don't care anymore...it's fixed! Thanks for all the help, everyone. Nothing like beating your head against the wall in a cold hangar. James Redmon Berkut #013 N97TX http://www.berkut13.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message aeroelectric-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/AeroElectric-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/aeroelectric-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/aeroelectric-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.