Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:22 AM - Re: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 06:50 AM - remote battery terminals (ddddsp1@juno.com)
3. 06:57 AM - Re: Hand soldering reliability (Chuck Jensen)
4. 07:40 AM - Trim Motor Rant (Valovich, Paul)
5. 08:17 AM - Re: Trim Motor Rant (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
6. 09:02 AM - Re: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators (Tim Andres)
7. 11:30 AM - Re: Trim Motor Rant (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 11:35 AM - Re: remote battery terminals (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
9. 02:07 PM - Strobes (Fergus Kyle)
10. 06:04 PM - Re: Battery chargers (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 06:08 PM - Re: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
Message 1
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Subject: | Pulse width modulation on linear actuators |
At 07:29 AM 2/17/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Thanks Bob & sorry for the delay, the actuator takes 5 amps at rated load.
>Tim
That's a boss-hog trim motor. Do you know how
much it draws as-installed? The pitch trim actuator
on a Lear 35 draws 16A at rated load for the actuator
(2500 pounds) but draws only 2A in worst case
for normal flight (about 300 pounds).
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 2
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Subject: | remote battery terminals |
Bob,
I was considering running remote battery terminals to make it easier IF
I ever need to jump start my plane. The wire run would be 12-16" from
the battery. What size wire would be recommended to run to these remote
terminals? The battery is a Odessey PC925. Would a fuse inline be nec
essary?
Dean
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<html><P>Bob,</P>
<P> I was considering running remote battery terminals to make it e
asier IF I ever need to jump start my plane. The wire run would be
12-16" from the battery. What size wire would be recommended to r
un to these remote terminals? The battery is a Odessey PC925. 
; Would a fuse inline be necessary?</P>
<P>Dean</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
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Message 3
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Subject: | Hand soldering reliability |
On Behalf Of Todd Heffley
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Hand soldering reliability
--> <list@toddheffley.com>
Had to rant.
For those of you who have not had the pleasure of working under these
tyanical systems...
When you hear the words Six Sigma, be prepared to stop what you are
doing and build some spreadsheets, attend MANY meetings, and synergize
team-to-team stratagies to maximize future deliverables.
BUT MOST OF ALL, YOU WILL STOP PRODUCING USEFUL
products/services/advancements.....PERIOD.
****
Yes, but the one piece that you will finally be able to produce will be
PERFECT...or at least, it will match the imperfect paperwork that weighs
as much as the part.
Six Sigma is an attempt to rely on a system instead of people, but then,
since imperfect people are running the Six Sigma program, the results
are often predictable, if unproductive. Nonetheless, a well controlled
and documented process is invaluable and pays manifold dividends later.
Chuck
Message 4
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I spent Sunday wiring the Ray Allen elevator trim motor on my -8A.
Can anyone explain the logic of why this otherwise fine product has
micro wires hanging off it instead of AWG 22's?
What a PITA to work with.
Paul Valovich
Message 5
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I agree, but its a right of passage. I soldered a 2 foot tail of AWG 22
on each micro wire and made the mechanical connection under the empanage
fairing.
It is a pain though 'cus you expect the wiring to take 5 minutes and it
takes 1.5 hours...A bit like evry other job come to think of it!
Frank
7a
________________________________
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valovich, Paul
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Motor Rant
I spent Sunday wiring the Ray Allen elevator trim motor on my -8A.
Can anyone explain the logic of why this otherwise fine product has
micro wires hanging off it instead of AWG 22's?
What a PITA to work with.
Paul Valovich
Message 6
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Subject: | Pulse width modulation on linear actuators |
I dont know yet Bob, the spec I gave is from the mfg and I'm sure is worst
case, I imagine in this lightly load application, it will be
>.5 amp.
Thanks, Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L.
Nuckolls, III
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:21 AM
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Pulse width modulation on linear actuators
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
At 07:29 AM 2/17/2007 -0800, you wrote:
<tim2542@sbcglobal.net>
>
>Thanks Bob & sorry for the delay, the actuator takes 5 amps at rated load.
>Tim
That's a boss-hog trim motor. Do you know how
much it draws as-installed? The pitch trim actuator
on a Lear 35 draws 16A at rated load for the actuator
(2500 pounds) but draws only 2A in worst case
for normal flight (about 300 pounds).
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
--
--
Message 7
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At 04:15 PM 2/19/2007 +0000, you wrote:
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Valovich, Paul
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Trim Motor Rant
I spent Sunday wiring the Ray Allen elevator trim motor on my -8A.
Can anyone explain the logic of why this otherwise fine product has micro
wires hanging off it instead of AWG 22?
What a PITA to work with.
Paul
------------------------------
I agree, but its a right of passage. I soldered a 2 foot tail of AWG 22 on
each micro wire and made the mechanical connection under the empanage fairing.
It is a pain though 'cus you expect the wiring to take 5 minutes and it
takes 1.5 hours...A bit like evry other job come to think of it!
Frank
7a
-----------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Back in '86 on my first pilgrimage to OSH, I stopped
by the then Menzimer booth to suggest that 22AWG wires would
be much more user friendly for the neophyte builder . . . I also
suggested that two white wires on the motor leads gave
a builder a 50/50 chance of hooking it up right the first time.
How about making white a (+)extend and perhaps a black wire
for (+)retract?
"We're not hearing any complaints from customers", was the
reply. For the next 12 years or so, I'd make the same
visit and offer the same suggestions only to receive the
same insipid response. I told them I was trying to produce
wiring diagrams that featured their products and I'd really
like to have the motor run the right direction the first
time, every time. But alas . . .
This is why it's important to be responsible consumers.
Make the manufacturer aware of your displeasure irrespective
of how willing you are to live with what's been supplied to
you. I gave it my best shot for a dozen years, it's up to
you folks now . . .
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: remote battery terminals |
At 02:45 PM 2/19/2007 +0000, you wrote:
>Bob,
>
> I was considering running remote battery terminals to make it easier IF
> I ever need to jump start my plane. The wire run would be 12-16" from
> the battery. What size wire would be recommended to run to these remote
> terminals? The battery is a Odessey PC925. Would a fuse inline be necessary?
>
>Dean
Depends on who's making the judgment. It's only 'necessary' if
YOU think it's necessary. The remote terminals are now an extension
of the battery's ability to dump energy externally in the event
of a crash or perhaps even a maintenance accident. The best we know
how to do is the pilot controlled, reverse polarity, over voltage
protected ground power plug. Anything you choose to do short of
those design goals is entirely up to you.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 9
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Craig,
I read your latest paragraph regarding lighting and noted that's
it's all "I" and no "we". Manoeuvring around an airfield, particularly a
busy one, is very much a community thing, not a solitary event.
While you are not bothered by another's strobes on the tarmac, many
others are, me included. If you were to sit up at 20 feet in Chicago O'Hare
and every aircraft had on strobes, you would appreciate the confusion and
wariness that occurred.
Strobes don't quickly indicate speed, turns or direction. That's why
we copied ships and used coloured lamps - which do all three. Trying to
guess the progress of conflicting traffic between flashes is a mug's game
and unsafe. It is unnecessarily distracting and time-wasting when time's in
short supply.
Strobes are designed to be seen many miles away, not several feet.
Turning strobes on at Take-off clearance tells everyone who's the
primary traffic on the live runway, and the tower that the clearance has
been received and acted on.... and it does so without bothering anyone.
If the clearance wasn't issued, it draws attention to the tower that danger
is building and the take-off stopped if possible.
"I'm sure the flames will start, and the name calling will follow, but I'd
rather be an a*****e than an accident statistic."
Safe, co-ordinated airport traffic is not necessarily about what
you'd rather be. It's more concerning about what you'd rather not cause.
Turning landing lights on descent through 10.000 feet is not about
aircraft collisions, it's training bird flocks to avoid aircraft.
Ferg Kyle
Europa A064 914 Classic
PS: I think the argument for rotating beacons has more merit.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Battery chargers |
At 06:36 PM 2/19/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>Bob, I am not a normal contributor to your list but read with interest,
>when possible, and thought I would offer this for your thoughts. There
>seems to be a lot of interest lately on battery chargers.
>
>I have used old small UPS systems for battery chargers and found them to
>be pretty good at charging and keeping batteries charged. The type of UPS
>systems that I am talking about is normally used for personal computers or
>servers. I have done some measuring and they seem to vary a little in
>how sophisticated they are. Some of the high end ones also seem to have a
>DC pulse of some higher than 12v intensity. I don't have a scope
>available so just observed a pulse reading on a meter that looks larger
>than 30 volts. I assumed this was some form of attempt at preventing
>sulfation. The resting or float voltage varies with units all the way
>from 13.2 up to 13.8 using an uncalibrated meter. The nice part is that I
>have found a lot of these around that people don't seem to want to bother
>with replacing their old or bad batteries and will pass them on or junk
>them. Since I am a classic cheap skate, it seemed a shame not to reclaim
>them for a useful purpose. Several of these small ups systems originally
>had Panasonic sealed lead acid batteries similar in size and shape to the
>Odyssey 680 and since I have a 680 in the RV4, I thought this might make a
>good battery charger/tender/minder for it.
>My assumption is that UPS manufacturers probably built a pretty good
>battery charger/tender in the unit so as not to over charge the internal
>battery. I don't have a recording meter system so I am not aware of how
>they charge; as in "equalize", versus "float", etc They also seem to
>have built in several protection modes, such as turning off the 117 volt
>inverters or the load when the battery reaches a certain voltage (not
>important when using as a charger) and they also shut down the 12 volt
>output when the battery is below a certain starting voltage. In other
>words, a completely flat battery will have to be paralleled with another
>good battery to use these power supplies as chargers.
>
>For my convenience, I mounted banana plug female jacks on the outside of
>the units and made up jumpers with alligator jacks on them. They also
>seem to work pretty good at charging up portable jumper batteries too.
>
>In your opinion, am I slowly cooking any battery that I hook up to these
>"inexpensive" power supplies.
What a novel discovery my friend, thank you for sharing this!
Of course, uninterruptible are tasked with maintaining a battery
(that almost never gets cycled) in a high state of readiness.
Unlike vehicular systems that crank engines and supply fill-in
power when engine RPMS are too low, the UPS battery may sit
for years while the owner expects it to keep things running
for a useful period of time during power failures.
As others have observed on the List . . . batteries applied
in this special service may benefit from special treatment
by the charging/maintaining system powered from AC mains.
Which reminds me, the UPS on my desk is about 6 years old
and the last time I had a neighborhood power down, the
battery lasted barely long enough for me to do an orderly
save.
I don't have a battery on hand that fits inside but I do
have some instrumentation batteries as large as 32 AH.
It occurred to me last week that I might bring the battery
wires out and use one of these fat mamas to replace the
internal battery. Your posting has prompted me to revisit
that task with new purpose in mind. I'll take some measurements
on how this particular device treats its battery.
If anyone else has occasion to conduct some similar
investigations into John's idea, please share it with
us here on the List.
Bob . . .
Message 11
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Subject: | Pulse width modulation on linear actuators |
At 09:02 AM 2/19/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>I don't know yet Bob, the spec I gave is from the mfg and I'm sure is worst
>case, I imagine in this lightly load application, it will be
> >.5 amp.
>Thanks, Tim
Hmmmm . . . okay, except that inrush currents will be
rather spectacular compared to the load currents.
When you craft a duty-cycle limited controller, I'd
recommend that transistors in the 10A class be used
to drive the motor.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
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