Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:08 AM - Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags (David Abrahamson)
2. 05:36 AM - Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags (David Abrahamson)
3. 06:56 AM - Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags (BobsV35B@aol.com)
4. 06:56 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 02/23/07 (Nathan Davis)
5. 09:06 AM - Re: compromised VOR/LOC/GS antenna performance (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 09:41 AM - Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS (Jerry Grimmonpre)
7. 10:17 AM - Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 02:07 PM - Fire wall passthrough (Doug Windhorn)
9. 02:25 PM - Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
10. 02:41 PM - Re: Fire wall passthrough (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
11. 02:48 PM - Rotax 912 Electrical System (Jeffrey A Beachy)
12. 03:32 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Electrical System (Michael T. Ice)
13. 03:52 PM - Re: Fire wall passthrough (Lynn Riggs)
14. 04:31 PM - Re: Rotax 912 Electrical System (Gilles Thesee)
15. 05:03 PM - Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
16. 05:35 PM - Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags (Bill Hibbing)
17. 06:28 PM - Re: Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . . ()
18. 07:40 PM - Re: Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
19. 10:11 PM - Re: Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS (Jerry Grimmonpre)
20. 10:53 PM - Re: Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . . (jetboy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags |
Thanks. Very glad that someone out there has the same setup as
me. When you turned off the mag in flight, what effect did you
see? If it's slight/minimal, perhaps this means that mag failure in
flight won't be noticed until you get on the ground. One other
question is, what is your shutdown procedure or pre-shutdown
procedure? Do you pull to idle cutoff and then switch both the mag
and LSE off, or do you shut one or the other off and then pull to
idle cutoff? I'm implying that shutting the LSE off prior to
shutdown would test the mag, and then you could pull to idle cutoff,
still burning up the fuel left in the system. Lastly, if you would
show me your emergency procedure checklist relating to the engine,
I'd be very interested. Thanks.
David
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags |
I do cover that eventuality in "Lastly, if the engine quits...", but
running a diagnosis that stops a rough-running -- but otherwise
healthy engine, obviously needs to be refined. The core issue, I
think, is how you figure out the mag has failed/malfunctioned in
flight if the symptoms are very subtle, as I suspect they are if the
LSE is firing away lustily. I've asked Bill Hibbing what his
experience is with shutting off the mag in flight, and I plan to test
that myself when I take flight in a couple of months. It may be that
your only safe alternative is to shut off the mag to see if that
makes any difference, enrich and add carb heat, and if the roughness
persists, land and test the mag on the ground.
David
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags |
Good Morning David,
Considering the vast array of engine monitoring equipment that is available
today, don't you think that we should be able to get a lot of information from
those systems that most of us use?
I find that most of my impending spark plug, harness and magneto problems
give good early warnings on the engine monitoring equipment during a high power
inflight ignition system check.
With a bit of monitoring, many mechanical aberrations can also be detected
way before the engine gets rough.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Ancient Aviator
Stearman N3977A
Brookeridge Air Park LL22
Downers Grove, IL 60516
630 985-8503
In a message dated 2/24/2007 7:43:36 A.M. Central Standard Time,
dave@abrahamson.net writes:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: David Abrahamson
<dave@abrahamson.net>
I do cover that eventuality in "Lastly, if the engine quits...", but
running a diagnosis that stops a rough-running -- but otherwise
healthy engine, obviously needs to be refined. The core issue, I
think, is how you figure out the mag has failed/malfunctioned in
flight if the symptoms are very subtle, as I suspect they are if the
LSE is firing away lustily. I've asked Bill Hibbing what his
experience is with shutting off the mag in flight, and I plan to test
that myself when I take flight in a couple of months. It may be that
your only safe alternative is to shut off the mag to see if that
makes any difference, enrich and add carb heat, and if the roughness
persists, land and test the mag on the ground.
David
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 02/23/07 |
Bob,
Exactly what does your answer have to do with his question? I'm confused, I
don't think he wanted to use it as a com antenna, just vor/loc/gs...help me
here.
Nathan Davis
> Time: 09:10:59 PM PST US
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To
> VOR/LOC/GS
>
>
> At 11:51 AM 2/23/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>
>>Bob ...
>>I have an old never installed cat whisker vor antenna. The whiskers are
>>24" stainless molded into what looks to be bakelite. Two stainless #4
>>studs protruding and go through a 1" diameter phenolic disk with nuts,
>>check nuts and fiber lock nuts. The old, I mean old paper work,
>>describes the antenna as vor 108-117.8 Mhz dated 1/76. It describes how
>>not to drill holes where it says "DO NOT DRILL HOLES IN THIS AREA" (a
>>rectangle molded into the bakelite). Mfd by The Antenna Specialists Co.
>>
>>My fondest hope is to modify the reception so as to receive vor/loc/gs ...
>>can this be done and how? I have an antenna splitter from Ant to G/S and
>>Nav. I can solder, follow directions, links and pointing if the lights
>>are turned up bright.
>
> A comm antenna is generally mounted vertically out the top or bottom of
> the airplane
> to most closely match the polarization of comm facilities both ground
> based and
> airborne (vertical). VOR/LOC/GS signals are horizontally polarized which
> is why
> you see the dual cat whiskers mounted in a horizontal plane on older
> airplanes.
> You can use the antenna you've described but with degrade performance.
> The optimum
> length for the VOR/LOC reception is LONGER than for a Comm antenna . . .
> about 26".
> So using this antenna as is will further degrade performance due to not
> being centered
> at the frequency band of interest.
>
> Now, I can't quantify 'degraded' . . . you can give it a try, go fly it
> and
> see if it does what you need to have done. If you find that you're not
> hearing
> VOR stations as far out as you'd like, you'll have to do something
> different.
> LOC/GS signals are so strong that a wet string hung out the window would
> probably work okay so I suspect you'll find the antenna is reasonably
> useful off the approach end of a runway. Let us know what you discover.
>
> Bob . . .
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: compromised VOR/LOC/GS antenna performance |
At 09:54 AM 2/24/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Bob,
>
>Exactly what does your answer have to do with his question? I'm confused,
>I don't think he wanted to use it as a com antenna, just vor/loc/gs...help
>me here.
Yes . . . and I offered the information that it was (1) not
long enough for optimum performance in the VOR/LOC range
of frequencies . . . and (2) that classic mounting schemes
for this antenna (top or bottom of fuselage) produced
a cross-polarized pattern conflict. Comm stations are
vertically polarized while VOR/LOC antennas on the ground
are horizontally polarized. So unless he was willing
to mount the antenna out the side of the fuselage, vertical
fin or perhaps horizontally from the tip of a wing, cross-
polarization losses are stacked on top of too-short loss
of performance as a VOR/LOC antenna.
The term "degraded" is non-quantified. It can only
be interpreted to mean not-the-best-we-know-how-to-do.
That's why I suggested that he go ahead and install
the antenna, add the coupler for GS and go fly it.
There's nothing like the repeatable experiment to
to quantify performance against system requirements.
In these times when 99% of radio navigation is by
GPS, it may be that he only needs the VOR/LOC/GS
equipment to work for approaches where signal availability
at the airplane is always strong. Under these conditions,
the "degraded" performance may not be an issue.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS |
For 'lectric Bob
and
Reply to Old Bob ... Good Morning Mentors!
Yes ... information does get tangled at times.
This older, never installed V cat whisker antenna, is going on the belly
of my RV4. The airplane was never equipped with a VOR/LOC/GS receiver
so I am retrofitting. ACS wants within a breath of $400 for their V
shaped cat whisker NAV/LOC/GS antenna. I believe the difference in the
ACS V shaped antenna and my V shaped cat whisker lies within the balun
design and maybe a bit of electronics soldered together. The difference
easily qualifies this conversion as $time$ well spent ... saving over
$300.
What I need is info from Bob N on what to do with a plain VOR/NAV V
shaped cat whisker antenna to convert it a NAV/LOC/GS receiver fed
through a AV-570 Diplexer.
Hope this helps ...
Jerry
Old Bob ... the PBGC debacle didn't touch me ... I'm blessed. The RV8A
project continues but temporarily on the back burner, deferred by the
RV4 mods. I got the 4 to keep the skills up, have some fun and to
witness good/bad build practices for the 8.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . . |
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>Please confirm that I have this right or suggest corrections. I am
>building a Zenith CH601-HD with Jabiru 3300A using an electrical system
>similar to Z-20. However, I am using the Aircraft Spruce A-510-2 Ignition
>Switch. Is the following wiring correct? Both mags are connected to the
>switch via shielded 20 AWG wire.
Yes
> The mag wires are sheilded with a pigtail only at one end.
Yes
> I chose to ground the pigtails at the switch end because the electronic
> mags are in a plastic case.
Oops, if they're electronic mags, then perhaps shielding
is not necessary. Unlike with a magneto the "p-lead" (primary-
lead) does not carry the gawd-awful high voltage waveform that
makes the classic magneto p-lead a potential noise source.
>So the pigtails are attached to the center ground screw on the switch.
>The shielding on the wire to the starter contactor is also grounded to
>the same switch screw.
Why are you shielding this lead?
>At the contactor end the shielding is grounded to the lower
>stud on the forest of tabs ground block.
There's no need to shield any wires connected to
the starter contactor . . .
>So the p-lead ground goes from the mags to the switch to
>the ground block.
. . . and I'm not convinced that the control lead
to any form of electronic ignition benefits from shielding.
For example, on pages 6 and 22 of E-Mag's installation
manual at:
http://emagair.com/Manual%20L113v29.pdf
The pictures and schematics are notably devoid of shielded
wire . . . and I would be disappointed if they called out
the use of shielded wire.
You'll need to ask the manufacturer for your system as
to the need for shielded wire
> Does this work out OK? Thanks ... Jeff Davidson (Novice Electrician)
Don't think it's at all necessary. Without specific instructions
from your ignition manufacturer my recommendation is that no
shielded wire is necessary and all system ground wires be taken to
a common ground point on the firewall.
P.S. I dug up the installation manual for the 3300 on the 'net. The
wiring diagram DOES NOT call for shielded wire to the ignition controls.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one wishes to be "world class" at )
( anything, what ever you do must be )
( exercised EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fire wall passthrough |
Bob,
This link shows a nice PHYSICAL solution to passing power through a
bulkhead, but uses a reinforced nylon insulator and attach flanges, so it
does not provide any kind of fire resistance for the opening.
http://bluesea.com/category/9/productline/overview/11
Seems to me that someone could come up with a product that emulates this,
but uses a fire resistive insulator shroud.
Can you suggest a more suitable alternative?
Doug Windhorn
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS |
At 11:39 AM 2/24/2007 -0600, you wrote:
>For 'lectric Bob
>and
>Reply to Old Bob ... Good Morning Mentors!
>Yes ... information does get tangled at times.
>
>This older, never installed V cat whisker antenna, is going on the belly
>of my RV4. The airplane was never equipped with a VOR/LOC/GS receiver so
>I am retrofitting. ACS wants within a breath of $400 for their V shaped
>cat whisker NAV/LOC/GS antenna. I believe the difference in the ACS V
>shaped antenna and my V shaped cat whisker lies within the balun design
>and maybe a bit of electronics soldered together. The difference easily
>qualifies this conversion as $time$ well spent ... saving over $300.
>
>What I need is info from Bob N on what to do with a plain VOR/NAV V
>shaped cat whisker antenna to convert it a NAV/LOC/GS receiver fed through
>a AV-570 Diplexer.
Not a thing. The 'Connection's antenna chapter describes
the v-shaped dipole antenna that has appeared hundreds
of thousands of airplanes since VOR stations started popping
up in the 1940's\
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/VOR_Whiskers.pdf
There are many variations on the theme for these horizontally
polarized antennas. They can have a wildly variable range of
market prices as well. This version offered from Edmo
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/VOR_Whiskers_AV-532.jpg
lists for $120 while this version . . .
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Antenna/VOR-GS_CI-157P.jpg
lists for over $400.
The later version is touted to have a "ferrite" balun that
eliminates the need for the coaxial BALUN commonly often on
its plebeian cousins.
Bottom line is that without some pretty sophisticated
test equipment, the average user will not be able to tell
if their VOR antenna does or does not have a BALUN. At
Cessna in the 60s we were building our own antennas for
both Comm and VOR. For a time, we fabricated a coaxial
cable BALUN for the VOR antenna but abandoned the practice
when (1) pilots couldn't tell if one was installed or not
and (2) the additional labor and risks for field failures
due to the funky manufacturing process involved. All we had
back then was PVC/PolyE insulated RG58 which was exceedingly
difficult to work with as a BALUN material. RG-400/142
are much more solder-friendly.
If one wishes to fabricate their own "cat whisker" VOR/LOC
antenna using guidelines taken from the pictures, it will
work just fine with the center conductor of the coax
attached to one whisker and the shield attached to the
other whisker. Overall length of each whisker (including
pigtails) to the coax needs to be on the order of 26"
If you want to add a BALUN to your Smiley Jack's $6.95
DIY VOR/LOC antenna, it's not hard to do. Here's a page
that describes one of several processes . . . but one
that works better than the "ferrite BALUN" in the
gold plated antenna from Aircraft Spruce. This will raise
the cost of your antenna to $8.95
http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Antenna/VOR-LOC_ANT_w_BALUN.pdf
This antenna (like all VOR/LOC antennas - including yours)
can be used in conjunction with the VOR/LOC/GS splitter to
provide a signal to all of your ILS receivers. You can
add a BALUN to your installation too if you wish.
Bob . . .
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fire wall passthrough |
At 02:05 PM 2/24/2007 -0800, you wrote:
><N1DeltaWhiskey@comcast.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>This link shows a nice PHYSICAL solution to passing power through a
>bulkhead, but uses a reinforced nylon insulator and attach flanges, so it
>does not provide any kind of fire resistance for the opening.
>
>http://bluesea.com/category/9/productline/overview/11
>
>Seems to me that someone could come up with a product that emulates this,
>but uses a fire resistive insulator shroud.
>
>Can you suggest a more suitable alternative?
I wish. There's a lot of whippy variations on the theme
out there. I've added your find to the list at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/FireWall_Feedthru_Not1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/FireWall_Feedthru_Not2.jpg
I've not spent a lot of time on it but I'll ask around
out at RAC. There might be some whippy new machineable
electrical insulation materials that one could cut
the bushings out of.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Rotax 912 Electrical System |
Okay electrical gurus, if you can talk this builder through his
electrical phobias, Ill be both impressed and grateful. Heres the
scoop.
I am building a Zenith CH701 with a Rotax 912ULS. This will be for day
VFR.
My Electrical list:
Falcon Vertical Card Compass
Tachometer
Skyshops Electric Flaps w/indicator
Electric Trim (RAC servo) w/indicator
Flight Data Systems GT-50 clock
Microair M760 Comm
Microair T2000 Transponder w/encoder
PM501 Intercom
Standard Zenith Supplied Engine Instruments consisting of:
Oil PSI
Oil Temp
Water Temp
Voltmeter
L Fuel / R Fuel indicators
Hobbs meter (working off an oil pressure sender from Lockwood
Aviation)
Lowrance 2000C GPS mounted on panel in an AirGizmos Panel Dock
One 12v plug-in power source (for computer, etc) (cigarette lighter
without the lighter part)
I also have strobes and nav lights.
My plan so far is to use the following:
Switches:
Master Switch, 25amp Toggle Circuit Breaker (which, if I am following
this correctly, is used to bring the battery onlinethe alternator is
always online and protected by a 40 amp fuse?)
Strobes, 10 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
Nav Lights, 10 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
Radio/Transponder Circuit, 5 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
These 4 switches/circuit breakers will be on one bus bar.
Circuit Breakers:
Elec trim, 1 amp
Elec Flaps, 5 amp
Instruments, 5 amp
These will be on a second bus bar
Do I also need a circuit breaker to protect the bus bar?
Do I need to protect the 12v plug-in power source?
I also purchased a MaxiFuse 40 amp since I understand the Rotax
alternator circuit requires one.
I have read Aeroelectric Connection, which was very helpful, but I still
dont feel comfortable planning my electrical system without some help.
For me, its a bit like writing a novel in French, a language of which I
have just the faintest smattering of knowledge.
So, I need a schematic? I have Bob Nuckolls Z-16 to help, along with
one from Zenith and one from the Europa Build Manual. The areas that make
little sense to me are the Master Switch/Starting Relay/Regulator
Rectifier. Once I get to the bus bar, it seems simple enough.
So, where do I begin?
Jeff Beachy
Zenith CH701, 85% complete
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Electrical System |
Jeff,
Have you already bought all of those switch CB's? If not buy just plain toggle
switches and stick to the Z-16 plan. If so you might toss them in a box and buy
regular toggle switches any way, that is exactly what I did.
The Z plans are pretty easy to figure out if you follow them. The Bus bars are
fuse panels, easy enough to buy and then you can plug in any size of blade fuse
you want.
The Master Switch S700-2-10 toggle switch is dirt simple and works terrific.
I bought a pre-made wire harness for my RV with all the swichable circuit breakers and found it very limiting and primitive. After finding myself about to put in one more inline fuse I yanked it all out and dug out the Z-11 schematic and made a list of items need and ordered them from, www.bandc.biz/, and I am very glad that I did. The Z plans allow for easy additions and upgrades of Electro whizzies just by running a couple of wires and plugging in another fuse of the right size.
If your going to do circuit breakers and traditional bus bars then it isn't the
Z-16.
Mike Ice
RV-9
wiring complete, working on the canopy
Anchorage, Alaska
.----- Original Message -----
From: Jeffrey A Beachy
To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:46 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rotax 912 Electrical System
Okay electrical gurus, if you can talk this builder through his electrical phobias,
I'll be both impressed and grateful. Here's the scoop.
I am building a Zenith CH701 with a Rotax 912ULS. This will be for day VFR.
My Electrical list:
Falcon Vertical Card Compass
Tachometer
Skyshops Electric Flaps w/indicator
Electric Trim (RAC servo) w/indicator
Flight Data Systems GT-50 clock
Microair M760 Comm
Microair T2000 Transponder w/encoder
PM501 Intercom
Standard Zenith Supplied Engine Instruments consisting of:
Oil PSI
Oil Temp
Water Temp
Voltmeter
L Fuel / R Fuel indicators
Hobbs meter (working off an oil pressure sender from Lockwood Aviation)
Lowrance 2000C GPS mounted on panel in an AirGizmos Panel Dock
One 12v plug-in power source (for computer, etc) (cigarette lighter without the
lighter part)
I also have strobes and nav lights.
My plan so far is to use the following:
Switches:
Master Switch, 25amp Toggle Circuit Breaker (which, if I am following this correctly,
is used to bring the battery online-the alternator is always online and
protected by a 40 amp fuse?)
Strobes, 10 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
Nav Lights, 10 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
Radio/Transponder Circuit, 5 amp Toggle Circuit Breaker
These 4 switches/circuit breakers will be on one bus bar.
Circuit Breakers:
Elec trim, 1 amp
Elec Flaps, 5 amp
Instruments, 5 amp
These will be on a second bus bar
Do I also need a circuit breaker to protect the bus bar?
Do I need to protect the 12v plug-in power source?
I also purchased a MaxiFuse 40 amp since I understand the Rotax alternator circuit
requires one.
I have read Aeroelectric Connection, which was very helpful, but I still don't
feel comfortable planning my electrical system without some help. For me, it's
a bit like writing a novel in French, a language of which I have just the faintest
smattering of knowledge.
So, I need a schematic? I have Bob Nuckoll's Z-16 to help, along with one from
Zenith and one from the Europa Build Manual. The areas that make little sense
to me are the Master Switch/Starting Relay/Regulator Rectifier. Once I get
to the bus bar, it seems simple enough.
So, where do I begin?
Jeff Beachy
Zenith CH701, 85% complete
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fire wall passthrough |
You mite take a look at this site.
http://www.epm-avcorp.com/index.html
At 02:05 PM 2/24/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>Bob,
>
>This link shows a nice PHYSICAL solution to passing power through a
>bulkhead, but uses a reinforced nylon insulator and attach flanges, so it
>does not provide any kind of fire resistance for the opening.
>
>http://bluesea.com/category/9/productline/overview/11
>
>Seems to me that someone could come up with a product that emulates this,
>but uses a fire resistive insulator shroud.
>
>Can you suggest a more suitable alternative?
I wish. There's a lot of whippy variations on the theme
out there. I've added your find to the list at:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/FireWall_Feedthru_Not1.jpg
http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Misc/FireWall_Feedthru_Not2.jpg
I've not spent a lot of time on it but I'll ask around
out at RAC. There might be some whippy new machineable
electrical insulation materials that one could cut
the bushings out of.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Lynn A. Riggs
riggs_la@yahoo.com
St. Paul, MN
BH #656 Kit #22
http://home.comcast.net/~lariggs/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
---------------------------------
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax 912 Electrical System |
Michael T. Ice a crit :
> *Jeff,*
> **
>
> **
> *The Z plans are pretty easy to figure out if you follow them. The Bus
> bars are fuse panels, easy enough to buy and then you can plug in any
> size of blade fuse you want. *
> **
> *The Master Switch S700-2-10 toggle switch is dirt simple and works
> terrific.*
Jeff and all,
I followed figure Z16 with the addition of a dual battery for our
electrically dependant 914 installation, and we have been very happy
with it for more than two years now.
The Z figure philosophy is really worth studying.
Regards,
Gilles Thesee
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS |
Decided that the posting and supplementary drawing was
lacking for clarity. I've crafted a comic book on
1:1 BALUN fabrication for VOR/LOC/GS antennas at . . .
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/BALUN/Balun_Fabrication.html
Bob . . .
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags |
David,
With the Lightspeed operating I doubt if you'd notice anything if the mag
failed. When I shutdown on the ground I just pull the mixture although
shutting down with just the mag operating sounds like something I may have
to try. As far as an engine emergency I have just 3 steps. 1. FLY THE
AIRPLANE. 2. Take up a nearest toward the nearest suitable airport. 3.
Turn off the fuel and declare an emergency in case of a destructive failure.
Otherwise, troubleshoot if time permits.
We did have an interesting case withaCirrus powered by Continental. It
seems that the gear on one of the mags stripped and it was firing all over
the place. Unfortunately the person that was flying it at the time didn't
bother to check the mags and flew for 200 miles in this condition. It
destroyed the engine and it could have been prevented if he had simply
switched them off one at a time. I don't really know why he didn't land
when it happened and he's very lucky that the Feds didn't get wind of it as
it was a sure violation.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Abrahamson" <dave@abrahamson.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Magneto failure in general, Was: P Mags
> <dave@abrahamson.net>
>
> Thanks. Very glad that someone out there has the same setup as me. When
> you turned off the mag in flight, what effect did you see? If it's
> slight/minimal, perhaps this means that mag failure in flight won't be
> noticed until you get on the ground. One other question is, what is your
> shutdown procedure or pre-shutdown procedure? Do you pull to idle cutoff
> and then switch both the mag and LSE off, or do you shut one or the other
> off and then pull to idle cutoff? I'm implying that shutting the LSE off
> prior to shutdown would test the mag, and then you could pull to idle
> cutoff, still burning up the fuel left in the system. Lastly, if you
> would show me your emergency procedure checklist relating to the engine,
> I'd be very interested. Thanks.
> David
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . |
.
The ROTAX 912ULS wiring diagram (with electron mags) shows shielded wire
for the ignition with a ground at both ends. I assume this diagram
should be followed?
Frank
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Robert L. Nuckolls, III
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 1:14 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Shielded wires with modern ignition systems
. . .
<nuckollsr@cox.net>
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>Please confirm that I have this right or suggest corrections. I am
>building a Zenith CH601-HD with Jabiru 3300A using an electrical system
>similar to Z-20. However, I am using the Aircraft Spruce A-510-2
Ignition
>Switch. Is the following wiring correct? Both mags are connected to
the
>switch via shielded 20 AWG wire.
Yes
> The mag wires are sheilded with a pigtail only at one end.
Yes
> I chose to ground the pigtails at the switch end because the
electronic
> mags are in a plastic case.
Oops, if they're electronic mags, then perhaps shielding
is not necessary. Unlike with a magneto the "p-lead" (primary-
lead) does not carry the gawd-awful high voltage waveform that
makes the classic magneto p-lead a potential noise source.
>So the pigtails are attached to the center ground screw on the switch.
>The shielding on the wire to the starter contactor is also grounded to
>the same switch screw.
Why are you shielding this lead?
>At the contactor end the shielding is grounded to the lower
>stud on the forest of tabs ground block.
There's no need to shield any wires connected to
the starter contactor . . .
>So the p-lead ground goes from the mags to the switch to
>the ground block.
. . . and I'm not convinced that the control lead
to any form of electronic ignition benefits from shielding.
For example, on pages 6 and 22 of E-Mag's installation
manual at:
http://emagair.com/Manual%20L113v29.pdf
The pictures and schematics are notably devoid of shielded
wire . . . and I would be disappointed if they called out
the use of shielded wire.
You'll need to ask the manufacturer for your system as
to the need for shielded wire
> Does this work out OK? Thanks ... Jeff Davidson (Novice
Electrician)
Don't think it's at all necessary. Without specific instructions
from your ignition manufacturer my recommendation is that no
shielded wire is necessary and all system ground wires be taken to
a common ground point on the firewall.
P.S. I dug up the installation manual for the 3300 on the 'net. The
wiring diagram DOES NOT call for shielded wire to the ignition
controls.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one wishes to be "world class" at )
( anything, what ever you do must be )
( exercised EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 18
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| Subject: | Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . |
. .
At 09:26 PM 2/24/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>The ROTAX 912ULS wiring diagram (with electron mags) shows shielded wire
>for the ignition with a ground at both ends. I assume this diagram
>should be followed?
Hmmmm . . . I'd recommend you ground at the engine end
only and use the shields to provide ground for the mag
switches. Nonetheless, there are thousands of airplanes
flying wired "per instructions" that function fine but
with a non-zero risk of problems with ground loops.
Bob . . .
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To VOR/LOC/GS |
'lectric Bob ...
Your info is useful by inspiring the production of change. I now set out to
convert this simple $50 ebay cast-off VOR NAV antenna into something more
useful.
Many thanks for your gift of time and experience ...
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:24 PM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Converting Old Cat Whisker Antenna To
VOR/LOC/GS
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Shielded wires with modern ignition systems . . |
.
The Jabiru mags are not "electronic ignition" as commonly classified. they do have
a transistor switch inside.
Although shielding the P lead is not necessary, best practice is to run in shielded
lead, ground the shield at mag end to a spare thread hole (on the alternator
statorplate will do). At the mag switch end, the shield is connected to the
gnd terminal of the switch, but not connected to the airframe here.
during running, there are over 200v of spikes on these lines. Refer to the files
section on Yahoo Jabiru/engines group, "radio noise" , look for jab.coil primary
- a photo of the trace on the P lead.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jabiruengines/files/Radio%20noise/
--------
Ralph - CH701 / 2200a
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