AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 03/12/07


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:47 AM - Popped CB ()
     2. 06:53 AM - Putting things into perspective (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     3. 08:50 AM - Re: Re: Transponder location in the panel (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     4. 10:10 AM - OV condition in old Bonanza (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     5. 10:18 AM - Re: Popped CB (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 03:36 PM - RF noise from EFIS (N777TY)
     7. 06:28 PM - Re: Wig wag revisited (JTORTHO@aol.com)
     8. 07:18 PM - Re: RF noise from EFIS (Peter Braswell)
     9. 09:57 PM - Re: Wig wag revisited (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:47:30 AM PST US
    From: <frank.phyllis@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Popped CB
    I started my 912ULS for the first time. Ran like a charm. However, at both starts the alt cb popped. I used the Z16 diagram. Obviously I have "crossed wires" some place--any ideas? Thanks Frank McD


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:53:59 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Putting things into perspective
    Re: locations of electrowhizzies in the airplane . . . Let's consider some tidbits from recent comments about location. >All this talk about transponder "Antenna" locations >has me thinking about the location of the transponder >itself. Will my Becker 2 1/4" transponder (250watt) >be "polite" to the Trutrak autopilot sitting next to >it within 1/4"? Or should I locate a less critical >device in the hole right next to the transponder? >If so which device would likely get along in close >proximity with the transponder? >Voltmeter, electronic fuel gauge, electronic tach, electronic clock? . . . and >The Comant antenna folks in their installation instructions >specify a minimum of 36 inches IF possible. Further apart >IS better. But, closer will USUALLY work! In virtually every manufacturer's installation manuals, we find various and sundry recommendations to be considered if the owner wants optimum performance from the product. Batteries are accompanied with suggested maximum recharge currents, temperature compensated charging and float voltages, etc. Antennas, it's suggested, should be located no closer than n-inches to another antenna or conductive materials. Radio installations should be cooled and/or isolated from heat sources. Tires should be checked for inflation and held at such-and-such pressures, etc. What's never included in these instructions are quantified or qualified consequences for failure to observe these admonitions to the letter. There are a variety of possibilities. First, suppose a manufacturer spells out a lot of detailed instructions for optimum performance and for some reason, the customer comes back with a complaint. It's an easy CYA action to ask, "Well, did you follow all the recommendations?" Another possibility is that while the recommendations are based on laboratory conditions deduced during product development, there were no quantified studies that detail the consequences for letting the recharge voltage stray from optimum by n-volts, or allowing some piece of a transceiver to exceed optimum by n-degrees of temperature. It's left up to installer and operator to discover these things for themselves. Degrees of concern range from a notion that practical deviations from optimum are known to have little significance . . . others worry to the point of obsession with concerns that departures from optimum pose a threat of unsatisfactory performance if not catastrophic hazard to the device. These are the things that system integrators learn while the manufacturers are relatively content to coast along offering best-of-all-worlds conditions for optimum performance of their product. In real life, many products live and work in less than "ideal" situations yet they perform in a manner that the user perceives as satisfactory. In the vast majority of cases, we'll never know how the vhf comm and transponder systems affect each other if the antennas are only 23 inches apart or how many more flights we might get from a battery that is charged at 14.6 versus 14.4 volts. The point of all this is an attempt to assuage unnecessary concerns for slicing and dicing installation and operational considerations with some notion that we'll perceive a real return on investment for the effort. Virtually every time someone pops up on the list with a real performance problem, root cause for their perceptions turns out to be rather gross errors of installation. Wires crossed, ground loops, coax connector loose, perhaps the piece of equipment was never intended to be used that way . . . or maybe something is just broke or worn out. The golden rule of thumb is do as much as is practical to comply with the manufacturer's best wishes. Get on a community List like this and see what insight the experience base of the system integrators has to offer. Keep the knowledge of compromises you made in your hip pocket to examine as possible causes for problems that probably wont but may manifest later. By so doing, you gain knowledge that adds to your own skills as a system integrator that can be shared with others at some time in the future. Bob . . .


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:50:21 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: RE: Transponder location in the panel
    At 07:32 AM 3/10/2007 -0500, you wrote: ><aerobubba@earthlink.net> > >Hi Bevan, > >Re: All this talk about transponder "Antenna" locations has me thinking >about >the location of the transponder itself. Will my Becker 2 1/4" transponder >(250watt) > >On a tangent, I have the same unit and having noted the relatively high >power consumption compared to the coms sharing the stack, elected to put >the xpdr at the top. This ought to help keep my avionics as cool as >practical behind the panel. Design considerations for devices designed to live and work on the panel of your airplane include the knowledge that there ARE potentially incompatible antagonists and victims that need to function side-by-side. This is part of what DO-160 testing is all about. Unless the installation instructions specifically warn against any particular locations, then there's no good reason to create any new worries about it. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:10:37 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: OV condition in old Bonanza
    >Comments/Questions: A good friend of mine has completed an RV6 and >recommended that you were the only one to answer my question. > >I just replaced the voltage regulator on my A36 Bonanza that I have owned >for 20 years - 1977 E-1058 - The reason for the replacement was that we >had an over voltage condition that caused a number of avionics to fail. I >am trying to find out the cause of the failure, and if it was just a >failure of the regulator or anything else. Root cause was probably failure of the voltage regulator . . . however, there are exceedingly rare but not zero risk that some other defect in wiring or internal to the alternator caused the ov condition. A follow-up consideration is that the OV condition was permitted to continue to an unhappy result because either (1) no OV protection was installed or (2) the OV protection system was failed. >My question is: The charging system in this bonanza has a 3 amp fuse in >the alternator field wiring located on the engine side of the fire wall. >This fuse block is out exposed to the elements. The fuse holder brackets >holdding the fuse were noted to be corroded. My question is could the >corrosion have caused the regulator to not read the field voltage and >cause the "inductive kickback" or voltage spike. > >We cleaned up the fuse bracket after installing a new Zeftronics voltage >regulator. But I need to know if this could happen again due to corrosion. If the system is operating normally after having replaced the regulator, then failure of the original regulator is mostly likely the root cause. Did your replacement regulator come with OV protection built in? Does your system have an OV protection devices installed that failed to function earlier? I'll dig around in the drawings at Hawker/Beech to see how the airplane was wired when it left the factory. Corrosion at the fuse holder would not have caused an OV condition. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one wishes to be "world class" at ) ( anything, what ever you do must be ) ( exercised EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:18:14 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Popped CB
    At 08:45 AM 3/12/2007 -0400, you wrote: > >I started my 912ULS for the first time. Ran like a charm. However, at >both starts the alt cb popped. I used the Z16 diagram. Obviously I >have "crossed wires" some place--any ideas? When did the breaker pop? As soon as you pushed the starter button? When you released the starter button? Do you have a diode across the coil of your starter contactor? Did you have the alternator turned ON while cranking or did you turn it on after the engine was running? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ----------------------------------------


    Message 6


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    Time: 03:36:27 PM PST US
    Subject: RF noise from EFIS
    From: "N777TY" <microsmurfer@yahoo.com>
    Trying to figure out a problem I'm running into where an EFIS screen seems to be putting RF noise into my radio. The noise seems "small" -- as in it can't be heard if there's a strong signal being received, but can be heard if there's no transmission or as background while receiving poor signal. It never breaks the squelch on the radio at all, so it can only be heard if I pull the squelch button on my SL-40. noise goes away if antenna is disconnected, in which case all I can hear is normal radio static. noise can be heard if rubber ducky antenna is connected instead of the Comant antenna (so I'm not sure it's my real antenna installation at issue here, but could be?) Due to the setup I have, I can hook this antenna right behind the radio, or at the end of the coax run.. didn't notice any difference between the two. Tried Radio Shack ferrite choke at various locations and it didn't seem to do anything. Tried some RS in-line choke (in-line with radio +, as well as EFIS + and ground) which also didn't do anything either. coax doesn't run close to the EFIS screen, and for the most part, it's not close to other wires. I have a 2-screen setup and both (and either) produce this noise... have not tried transmitting, so no idea what kind of impact it'd have (if any) on outgoing transmissions.. focused on reception at this point. again, since it doesn't break the squelch, it's not a big big issue, but it's annoying and would love to see it go away :) any thoughts? Thanks! Radomir -------- RV-7A N777TY (res) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100146#100146


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:28:11 PM PST US
    From: JTORTHO@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Wig wag revisited
    Bob Sorry for the delay. I attempted to learn the express software for this, and simply could not get it off my clipboard. so here is the free hand version. Sorry about the quality but I think it tells the basics <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:18:03 PM PST US
    From: Peter Braswell <pbraswell@alterthought.com>
    Subject: Re: RF noise from EFIS
    Bet you've got an BMA E1? I had the same problem. Got into the system setup and go to RF squelch. The factory setting is 56. I had to run my up to 70 to get rid of the scratching in my system. All is well now... Those ferrite thingies from RS DO NOT WORK! peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "N777TY" <microsmurfer@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 6:33:44 PM (GMT-0500) America/New_York Subject: AeroElectric-List: RF noise from EFIS Trying to figure out a problem I'm running into where an EFIS screen seems to be putting RF noise into my radio. The noise seems "small" -- as in it can't be heard if there's a strong signal being received, but can be heard if there's no transmission or as background while receiving poor signal. It never breaks the squelch on the radio at all, so it can only be heard if I pull the squelch button on my SL-40. noise goes away if antenna is disconnected, in which case all I can hear is normal radio static. noise can be heard if rubber ducky antenna is connected instead of the Comant antenna (so I'm not sure it's my real antenna installation at issue here, but could be?) Due to the setup I have, I can hook this antenna right behind the radio, or at the end of the coax run.. didn't notice any difference between the two. Tried Radio Shack ferrite choke at various locations and it didn't seem to do anything. Tried some RS in-line choke (in-line with radio +, as well as EFIS + and ground) which also didn't do anything either. coax doesn't run close to the EFIS screen, and for the most part, it's not close to other wires. I have a 2-screen setup and both (and either) produce this noise... have not tried transmitting, so no idea what kind of impact it'd have (if any) on outgoing transmissions.. focused on reception at this point. again, since it doesn't break the squelch, it's not a big big issue, but it's annoying and would love to see it go away :) any thoughts? Thanks! Radomir -------- RV-7A N777TY (res) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=100146#100146


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:57:07 PM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Wig wag revisited
    Understand. What you've shown should function just fine. Bob . . . At 09:26 PM 3/12/2007 -0400, you wrote: >Bob > >Sorry for the delay. I attempted to learn the express software for this, >and simply could not get it off my clipboard. so here is the free hand >version. Sorry about the quality but I think it tells the basic




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