---------------------------------------------------------- AeroElectric-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/20/07: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:25 AM - Fiberglass fuselage (luigit@freemail.it) 2. 03:23 AM - Progressive loss of radio quality (Allan Aaron) 3. 05:23 AM - Re: OV protection (Dale Fultz) 4. 05:47 AM - Re: RF antenna connectors (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 5. 05:54 AM - Re: OV protection (Sam Marlow) 6. 06:16 AM - Re: BNC connector (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 7. 06:17 AM - Re: Extra credit quiz (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 8. 06:21 AM - Re: Progressive loss of radio quality (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 9. 06:23 AM - OV protection (James H Nelson) 10. 06:36 AM - Re: Progressive loss of radio quality (Dave N6030X) 11. 06:43 AM - Re: OV protection (Sam Marlow) 12. 06:54 AM - Re: Fiberglass fuselage () 13. 06:59 AM - Re: OV protection () 14. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: Fiberglass fuselage (luigit@freemail.it) 15. 07:40 AM - Re: Fiberglass fuselage (Dave N6030X) 16. 08:00 AM - Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? (Jay Brinkmeyer) 17. 09:24 AM - Miniature Toggle Switch (Jerry Grimmonpre) 18. 11:15 AM - Re: Miniature Toggle Switch (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 19. 11:23 AM - Re: Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? (Robert L. Nuckolls, III) 20. 12:29 PM - Re: Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? () 21. 03:49 PM - Re: Fiberglass fuselage (Earl_Schroeder) 22. 09:09 PM - Re: OV protection (Rob Wright) 23. 10:00 PM - Re: OV protection (William Gill) 24. 11:20 PM - Re: Extra credit quiz (Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:25:38 AM PST US From: luigit@freemail.it Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:33 AM PST US From: "Allan Aaron" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Progressive loss of radio quality My friend has a cozy (fibreglas construction) with an icom a200 (i think) tranceiver. When he transmits the initial quality is good but if the transmission continues for many seconds it degrades to the point of being unreadable. Is this likely to be an antenna grounding issue, a factor related to it being a glass plane or a fault with the radio? Any thoughts appreciated. allan ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:53 AM PST US From: "Dale Fultz" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV protection Sam, if it is a PLANE POWER altenator that Van's sold you, then you have nothing to worry about if installed properly.. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:45 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: RF antenna connectors At 11:56 PM 3/19/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > >Bob > >Do you or anyone else out there, have information on installing RF antenna >connectors for a tray mount to RG-400? I know the center conductor is >soldered to the center pin and the shield is soldered to the side >enterence. Does the shield go all the way to the enterence to the main >cup? Does the insullation go flush with enterance to the side entery? And >if so how would one get the sodder into the side enterence? How far does >the shield go inside? Is it flush with the inside of the cup? > >Jonsey If you'll send me your coax fitting I'll install what ever length of RG-400 you wish onto it and use the fitting to craft a comic-book on the subject for posting on my website. I've been wanting to do this article but haven't had access to the fitting. Bob . . . AeroElectric Connection 6936 Bainbridige Road Wichita, KS 67226 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:40 AM PST US From: Sam Marlow Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I'm not at the hangar, so I'm not sure of the brand, but it came with the RV10 firewall forward kit. Dale Fultz wrote: > Sam, if it is a PLANE POWER altenator that Van's sold you, then you > have nothing to worry about if installed properly.. > > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:39 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: BNC connector At 01:04 AM 3/20/2007 -0500, you wrote: > > >Bob > >I talked to B and C today. They did a test drive of the connectors and the >same tool. He adjusted the crimping pressure however he still ended up with >the flanges. He called them a slight flange. So I guess I need to find a >different coupler that will fit with the tool. Any suggestions? > >Jonsey Hmmm . . . Did you get the connectors and tool from different sources? One of my suppliers was Jameco but they don't stock the import connector I used to sell any more but they do offer name-brand connectors. Suggest you try https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/355240.pdf It's their stock# 355240 1e564b.jpg Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:58 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Extra credit quiz At 12:22 PM 3/19/2007 -0400, you wrote: >I was glad to see anything promoting the Aeroelectric connection, but >found the article to have very limited information. What really bugged me >was that the pictures of connectors were for ones that are NOT >recommended. To be fair, this was pointed out in the caption, but how >about showing people what the good ones look like instead of leaving >people guessing? I think the thrust of the article was about the seminars, not so much simple ideas. Did you spot any errors in simple ideas beyond the terminal illustration? Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:14 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Progressive loss of radio quality At 09:22 PM 3/20/2007 +1100, you wrote: > >My friend has a cozy (fibreglas construction) with an icom a200 (i think) >tranceiver. When he transmits the initial quality is good but if the >transmission continues for many seconds it degrades to the point of being >unreadable. Is this likely to be an antenna grounding issue, a factor >related to it being a glass plane or a fault with the radio? Any thoughts >appreciated. if it has anything to do with local RF getting back into the radio, a dummy load check will show this up. Put this device on the transceiver's feedline. http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Tools/DummyLoad.jpg Listen on adjacent airplane or handheld while transmitting on subject radio. If the problem goes away when the antenna is out of the loop, then the investigation will focus outside the radio. Is this a new condition or has it existed since day-one? Bob . . . ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:32 AM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection From: James H Nelson Sam, If your not real sure about the alternator, AND if you have not hooked up the Van's unit and its in its original box, Van will take it back and you can go to the "Plane Power" 60A unit that has a built in OV protection module. I traded mine and the Plane Power alternator looks real nice. I have not run it yet but this summer it will be flying. Bob Nuckols has talked with the people at PP and is satisfied that the OV unit will work as advertised. It trips the field current and the alternator goes dead. That is what you want. Jim Nelson ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:25 AM PST US From: Dave N6030X Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Progressive loss of radio quality It could be that the SWR on the antenna is so high that the transmitter is protecting itself by reducing power. I don't know about the A200 but a lot of modern transmitters have that feature. Make sure all connectors are good and that the coax isn't shorted somewhere. Dave Morris At 05:22 AM 3/20/2007, you wrote: > >My friend has a cozy (fibreglas construction) with an icom a200 (i >think) tranceiver. When he transmits the initial quality is good but >if the transmission continues for many seconds it degrades to the >point of being unreadable. Is this likely to be an antenna grounding >issue, a factor related to it being a glass plane or a fault with >the radio? Any thoughts appreciated. >allan > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:35 AM PST US From: Sam Marlow Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I already installed it, and almost ready to fly. I'm just a bit to cautious I guess. James H Nelson wrote: > > Sam, > If your not real sure about the alternator, AND if you have not > hooked up the Van's unit and its in its original box, Van will take it > back and you can go to the "Plane Power" 60A unit that has a built in OV > protection module. I traded mine and the Plane Power alternator looks > real nice. I have not run it yet but this summer it will be flying. Bob > Nuckols has talked with the people at PP and is satisfied that the OV > unit will work as advertised. It trips the field current and the > alternator goes dead. That is what you want. > > Jim Nelson > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:04 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage From: Luigi, I will do the same with two of the EI bipole antennas. The word is there is no affect from the fiberglass. Do not try the same with carbon fibre which will block the signal. In fact, I have now seen a number of aircraft with the antenna farm in the tail. I am building a Legacy FG which will include two comm, one gs and one marker beacon in the tail. That's the nice thing about fiberglass, you can always move it after testing if necessary. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of luigit@freemail.it Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 4:24 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage On my Esqual, installing the radio system, an Icom- ICA 200, I wish to put the antenna inside the fusolage, behind the seat or inside the tail. Are there any experience/suggestion to keep ? Length of coaxial cable, position, shield..... Thank-you for any help. Really appreciated, indeed. Luigi, Rome, Italy -- Uso la webmail Dada.net , l'email delle persone che contano e che si raccontano :) -- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List the =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection From: Call them and ask? If they don't provide it, there are products out there with internal regulators that DO provide overload protection. Why pack extra equipment? The only thing you will need after that is a dashboard indicator. Perhaps Bob has a diagram for wiring an indicator light from an alternator with built in OV protection. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:50 AM To: aeroelectric-list@matronics.com Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I know there's been a lot of discussion about OV protection, but I'm wondering if anyone has come up with OV protection for the Van's internal regulated alternator? I'm hesitant to connect my expensive panel with out it. Thanks, Sam Marlow ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:08 AM PST US From: luigit@freemail.it Subject: Re: RE: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:00 AM PST US From: Dave N6030X Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage If your tailcone has a diameter of around 31 inches, you can try the Morris Com Loop antenna, which does not require a ground plane and is a better antenna than the typical quarter wave whip. www.DaveMorris.com/MorrisComLoop Dave Morris At 03:24 AM 3/20/2007, you wrote: > >On my Esqual, installing the radio system, an Icom- ICA 200, I >wish to put the antenna inside the fusolage, behind the seat or >inside the tail. > >Are there any experience/suggestion to keep ? Length of coaxial >cable, position, shield..... > >Thank-you for any help. > >Really appreciated, indeed. > >Luigi, Rome, Italy > > >-- Uso la webmail >Dada.net, l'email delle persone che contano e che si raccontano :) >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:50 AM PST US From: Jay Brinkmeyer Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? >JB Kwik uses steel as a filler. I don't think it is conductive. I tried >putting a magnet on cured sample and tubes and it does not appear to be >conductive. Its been a while since my days as a struggling student How do magnetic properties of a material intersect with the desired electrical conductivity characteristics of antenna operation? Maybe I missed something? Jay Get your own web address. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:55 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: AeroElectric-List: Miniature Toggle Switch Bob ... I want to operate a 12V DC computer fan with a cruise load of .58A ... Will a miniature toggle single pole/throw suffer abuse of the contacts for this load? The switch shows a rating of 5A @ 125V AC ... Thanks Jerry ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:15 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Miniature Toggle Switch At 11:20 AM 3/20/2007 -0600, you wrote: > >Bob ... >I want to operate a 12V DC computer fan with a cruise load of .58A ... >Will a miniature toggle single pole/throw suffer abuse of the contacts for >this load? >The switch shows a rating of 5A @ 125V AC ... >Thanks >Jerry That switch is more likely to die with age than from any sort of "overload" in this application. See: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:01 AM PST US From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? At 08:00 AM 3/20/2007 -0700, you wrote: > > > >JB Kwik uses steel as a filler. I don't think it is conductive. I tried > >putting a magnet on cured sample and tubes and it does not appear to be > >conductive. > >Its been a while since my days as a struggling student How do magnetic >properties of a material intersect with the desired electrical conductivity >characteristics of antenna operation? Maybe I missed something? > >Jay Influence due to magnetic properties is not so strong as conductivity, i.e. sheet resistance of the material in question. For single, relatively thin conductors like antenna elements, resistive losses of say stainless steel versus copper can be easily measured but not terribly significant in terms of overall performance on airplanes (we talk line-of-sight and can tolerate rather poor antenna performance). For ground planes, you have an infinite number of radials all operating in parallel such that effects of sheet resistance variability for copper versus aluminum versus stainless under the antenna would be exceedingly difficult to measure in the lab. I can't think of any reason that magnetic properties of the material being considered would offer an effect worth considering beyond that of it's heating losses due to inability to perfectly conduct a current. Bob . . . ---------------------------------------- ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) ( what ever you do must be exercised ) ( EVERY day . . . ) ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) ---------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:33 PM PST US Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Will steel affect antenna operation? From: "I can't think of any reason that magnetic properties of the material being considered would offer an effect worth considering beyond that of it's heating losses due to inability to perfectly conduct a current." I was trying to beat up use, and putting something magnetic near remote magnetometer for Dynon D10A was a passing thought. When the extra turbulence on the right side of the aeroplane due to P-Factor temporarily were to put a magnetic charge on the JB Weld, then slip to landing took it off................. White elephant attack I know, but I mentioned that if it is magnetic, I could not detect any force change with a powerful magnet. I figured I would mention in case someone had same thought that it mat interfere with compass/s Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:49:27 PM PST US From: Earl_Schroeder Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Fiberglass fuselage Hi Luigi, In my Lancair [fiberglass not carbon] I have my Icom-200 connected to a Jim Weir dipole made from 1/2 wide copper tape. Works great! Ref URL: www.rst-engr.com/ Earl luigit@freemail.it wrote: > > On my Esqual, installing the radio system, an Icom- ICA 200, I wish > to put the antenna inside the fusolage, behind the seat or inside the > tail. > > Are there any experience/suggestion to keep ? Length of coaxial > cable, position, shield..... > > Thank-you for any help. > > Really appreciated, indeed. > > Luigi, Rome, Italy > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:06 PM PST US From: "Rob Wright" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I didn't specify, because I thought it was replaced with the PP unit as standard. When my FWF kit came I found out that the stock alternator is the "Ford" one that is so endearing to the list. I'm a ways from flying so haven't sent it back yet. Will decide exactly how to proceed later. Rob Wright RV-10 #392 Fuse _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection Call them and ask? If they don't provide it, there are products out there with internal regulators that DO provide overload protection. Why pack extra equipment? The only thing you will need after that is a dashboard indicator. Perhaps Bob has a diagram for wiring an indicator light from an alternator with built in OV protection. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:50 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I know there's been a lot of discussion about OV protection, but I'm wondering if anyone has come up with OV protection for the Van's internal regulated alternator? I'm hesitant to connect my expensive panel with out it. Thanks, Sam Marlow href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:55 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection Van' sells the PlanePower 60-amp alternator for $375 60 amp Alternator and Kit w/OV protection Part Number = ES ALTERNATOR DELUXE Price = $375.00 Their standard 60-amp is $270 Complete Alternator Kit 60 AMP Part Number = ES ALTERNATOR 60A KIT Price = $270.00 Just return the one you have and upgrade for an additional $105 (I too believed the PP unit was standard) Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I didn't specify, because I thought it was replaced with the PP unit as standard. When my FWF kit came I found out that the stock alternator is the "Ford" one that is so endearing to the list. I'm a ways from flying so haven't sent it back yet. Will decide exactly how to proceed later. Rob Wright RV-10 #392 Fuse _____ From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of longg@pjm.com Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 8:59 AM Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: OV protection Call them and ask? If they don't provide it, there are products out there with internal regulators that DO provide overload protection. Why pack extra equipment? The only thing you will need after that is a dashboard indicator. Perhaps Bob has a diagram for wiring an indicator light from an alternator with built in OV protection. -----Original Message----- From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Marlow Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:50 AM Subject: AeroElectric-List: OV protection I know there's been a lot of discussion about OV protection, but I'm wondering if anyone has come up with OV protection for the Van's internal regulated alternator? I'm hesitant to connect my expensive panel with out it. Thanks, Sam Marlow href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.m atronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:16 PM PST US Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Extra credit quiz From: Erich_Weaver@URSCorp.com Bob said "Did you spot any errors in simple ideas...?" Okay, now I see what you intended - should have paid more attention to the thread subject line. Perusing the Kit Planes article once more, the information regarding th e correct size fuse or circuit breader for a 60-amp alternator doesnt sou nd like what I thought I learned in the 'Connection. The article says use 70 or 80 amps to "prevent nuisance tripping because alternator ratings are minimum ratings." I believe nuisance tripping on my Z-13/8 based syste m with 40 amp alternator is handeled not by oversizing a fuse or breaker on the alternator B-lead, but by using a 5-amp breaker on the alternator field. My B-lead is protected with a 40 amp ANL current limiter which I believe is the correct size for my alternator. Im also bothered by the "minimum rating" part of the statement, as this would seem to imply that the alternator could easily produce that curre nt for long periods of time. We are supposed to be operating at about 75% of the alternator rating, no? Is this more on track, or do I get the booby prize and have to go back and read 'Connection yet again until it finally sinks in? Erich Weaver This e-mail and any attachments are confidential. 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