Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:04 AM - Re: Re: Earth return (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
2. 04:39 AM - Rear Mounted Batteries in Z-14 (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions (David Lamphere)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: subject=Re: Double row breaker panel (Ernest Christley)
5. 06:28 AM - Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
6. 06:38 AM - Re: SD8 Connection queries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
7. 06:38 AM - Re: SD8 Connection queries (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
8. 06:52 AM - Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions ()
9. 07:01 AM - Re: Double row breaker panel (Speedy11@aol.com)
10. 08:57 AM - Re: Fw: Re: Re: Capacitors for Whelen strobe power supply (Dennis Haverlah)
11. 11:20 AM - Re: Lightspeed Electronic Ignition (John Burnaby)
12. 11:42 AM - New question (Cleone Markwell)
13. 12:34 PM - Re: Lightspeed Electronic Ignition (Matt Prather)
14. 04:46 PM - Re: New question (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
15. 08:41 PM - DIY engine monitor (raymondj)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Earth return |
At 08:33 AM 3/27/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>John,
>
>Each circuit needs only one ground. The advantage of using a local
>(airframe) ground in a metal airplane is that a separate ground wire need
>not be threaded through the structure. If you elect to use a separate
>ground wire then there is no advantage to using a local ground. In fact,
>there may be a disadvantage because the possibility of ground loops would
>then exist.
>
>Regards,
>
>Keith Hallsten
Good catch Keith. I'd missed the "in addition" phrase
in his query.
Bob . . .
>Roseville, CA
>
>John Tipton wrote:
>
>Hi Guys
>
>Can you please confirm that it is good (aircraft) practice to have in
>
>addition to an earth return wire to the main earth 'bus' a local earth
>
>connection, for example, at the wing tip for the navigation and landing
>
>lights.
>
>Best regards - John
Message 2
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| Subject: | Rear Mounted Batteries in Z-14 |
>Comments/Questions: Bob,
>
>First, thank you for all you do and have done to support the Experimental
>Aircraft community over the years. I have had your materials and
>reference your web site on a VERY frequent basisgreat stuff!
Thank you for the kind words . . .
> I am now building an RV-10, and plan on using the Z-14 dual battery
> configuration. I am pretty much decided on using two of the 600 amp
> Odyssey batteries, mounted side by side in the standard rear tailcone
> configuration.
>
> From a configuration perspective, Is it acceptable to locate both battery
> contactor relays near the rear mounted batteries?
That's where they're supposed to go. Battery contactors and battery
busses are mounted adjacent to their respective batteries. Irrespective
of what kind of wire you use for other "fat wires" in the airplane,
consider the use of 4AWG, welding cable jumpers from battery(+) and
battery(-) terminals to their local attach points.
>Assuming the foregoing is acceptable, is it sufficient for me to use one
>#4 wire from the positive side of each contactor forward to the starter
>contactor and cross-feed contactor appropriately?
I think this will be fine.
>Is it OK to use one wire for the battery ground from the rear batteries
>forward to the firewall? By that I mean can I use a single say #2 wire to
>bring the ground forward to the firewall ground bus locations?
Ground batteries locally, each to a separate tab riveted
to most robust structure available. See:
http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Battery_Grounds/Battery_Grounds.html
>You recommend the main battery bus connection to the main battery
>contactor (usually a #10 wire) be kept less than 6 inches. Obviously if
>the battery contactor is located aft, that is not possible. Do I need to
>fuse-protect the line, or increase the wire size?
It IS possible because the always hot busses are located
next to their respective batteries.
>Bob, Thank you again in advance!
My pleasure sir!
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions |
Bob,
Now you are confusing me..
Yes, I did look at the link you provided.
Using the generic aircraft - single battery schematic for schematic on metal tube
frame.
Battery (Odyssey 680) and contactor will be located under baggage compartment floor
behind seat backs.
I thought we were supposed to run a ground wire from the battery to the brass ground
bus plate (with all the quick connect tabs on it) which was to be mounted
on the firewall. Isn't using the airframe for ground now generating two paths
for ground - hence possible problems?
I'm about ready to wire in my rear mounted battery (before covering). I will use
flexible wire for the battery terminal connections (and to the local ground
if that's what I am supposed to do). No problem attaching ground leads to the
frame if a good idea. It would eliminate an extra wire to top and bottom strobes
and tail position light... but I was already resolved to run + and gnd to each
(using a small local-next to battery version of the brass ground bus with
quick disconnects like in the front)
I'd appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rear Mounted Batteries in Z-14
>
>
> >Comments/Questions: Bob,
> >
> >First, thank you for all you do and have done to support the Experimental
> >Aircraft community over the years. I have had your materials and
> >reference your web site on a VERY frequent basisgreat stuff!
>
> Thank you for the kind words . . .
>
>
> > I am now building an RV-10, and plan on using the Z-14 dual battery
> > configuration. I am pretty much decided on using two of the 600 amp
> > Odyssey batteries, mounted side by side in the standard rear tailcone
> > configuration.
> >
> > From a configuration perspective, Is it acceptable to locate both battery
> > contactor relays near the rear mounted batteries?
>
> That's where they're supposed to go. Battery contactors and battery
> busses are mounted adjacent to their respective batteries. Irrespective
> of what kind of wire you use for other "fat wires" in the airplane,
> consider the use of 4AWG, welding cable jumpers from battery(+) and
> battery(-) terminals to their local attach points.
>
> >Assuming the foregoing is acceptable, is it sufficient for me to use one
> >#4 wire from the positive side of each contactor forward to the starter
> >contactor and cross-feed contactor appropriately?
>
> I think this will be fine.
>
> >Is it OK to use one wire for the battery ground from the rear batteries
> >forward to the firewall? By that I mean can I use a single say #2 wire to
> >bring the ground forward to the firewall ground bus locations?
>
> Ground batteries locally, each to a separate tab riveted
> to most robust structure available. See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Battery_Grounds/Battery_Grounds.html
>
>
> >You recommend the main battery bus connection to the main battery
> >contactor (usually a #10 wire) be kept less than 6 inches. Obviously if
> >the battery contactor is located aft, that is not possible. Do I need to
> >fuse-protect the line, or increase the wire size?
>
> It IS possible because the always hot busses are located
> next to their respective batteries.
>
>
> >Bob, Thank you again in advance!
>
> My pleasure sir!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Double row breaker panel |
Todd Heffley wrote:
>
> Did I mention that ALL OF THE WIRES MUST EXIT TO ONE SIDE?
>
> Avionics Installer hell is where removeable service panels have wires
> run willy nilly in all directions, so that the panel cannot be moved
> away from the instrument panel.
>
>
> Todd
Todd, thank you.
Some ideas are so fundamental, useful, and obvious...AFTER they are
pointed out to you. (Excuse me while I go re-route a few wires.)
--
,|"|"|, Ernest Christley |
----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder |
o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions |
At 08:19 AM 3/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:
><lamphere@earthlink.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Now you are confusing me..
>
>Yes, I did look at the link you provided.
>
>Using the generic aircraft - single battery schematic for schematic on
>metal tube frame.
>Battery (Odyssey 680) and contactor will be located under baggage
>compartment floor behind seat backs.
>
>I thought we were supposed to run a ground wire from the battery to the
>brass ground bus plate (with all the quick connect tabs on it) which was
>to be mounted on the firewall. Isn't using the airframe for ground now
>generating two paths for ground - hence possible problems?
Local grounds in all metal airplanes can practically
depart from "ideal" for the following:
Batteries, strobe supplies, landing/taxi lights,
pitot heaters, position lights, hydraulic pumps
for landing gear (because they're intermittent)
but not for air-conditioning compressors (because
they're continuous).
>I'm about ready to wire in my rear mounted battery (before covering). I
>will use flexible wire for the battery terminal connections (and to the
>local ground if that's what I am supposed to do). No problem attaching
>ground leads to the frame if a good idea. It would eliminate an extra wire
>to top and bottom strobes and tail position light... but I was already
>resolved to run + and gnd to each (using a small local-next to battery
>version of the brass ground bus with quick disconnects like in the front)
>
>I'd appreciate your input.
It's never 'bad' to run all electro-whizzies to a
single point ground but if one wishes to take advantage
of the ground-friendly, all-metal airplane with the
cited compromises, there's no risk of having an unhappy
noise moment.
It's most important to pay attention to grounding
potential victims such as avionics and instrumentation.
These should return to the firewall ground point per
Z-15.
I'll add some notes to Z-15 next revision to clarify
this point.
Bob . . .
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 Connection queries |
At 11:26 PM 3/22/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I wanted to get away from using the essential bus. If you were just going
>to use a common bus do you think it would be practical to have the SD8 &
>the battery feeding this via some sort of cross tie / switch. In the event
>of a alternator & main contactor failure you would then be able to supply
>the bus from a combination of the SD8 & the battery. In hindsight the
>chance of 2 components failing at the same time is statistically
>irrelevant, still I am planning some long flights so want the best
>system can devise.
Just tie the SD-8 to the downstream side of the downstream side
of the battery contactor instead of the upstream side and
leave the e-bus off.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: SD8 Connection queries |
At 09:21 PM 3/21/2007 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a SD8 standby alternator on my RV7 & am considering the various
>options for connecting it into the aircraft wiring. I have been looking at
>Bobs Z-8 diagram which uses an essential bus & cross tie. I would rather
>not have the essential bus & just have a way of connecting the both the
>SD8 & the battery into the main bus should the battery contactor fail as I
>see this as a single point of failure. Has anyone done something similar
>or is there another wiring diagram out there that shows another way of
>doing this.
Wire the SD-8 for self excitation and it will run without
a battery. If you're worried about the battery contactor
then dual battery contactors would fix that one. But then,
that's heavier than an e-bus.
I don't understand what optimization you perceive over
Z-13/8 as published.
Bob . . .
----------------------------------------
( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
( what ever you do must be exercised )
( EVERY day . . . )
( R. L. Nuckolls III )
----------------------------------------
Message 8
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| Subject: | Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions |
Wednesday battery installation tip.
I am relatively new to this wiring stuff, but I have had the experience
of replacing all of the battery, starter etc cables in a Piper 67'
PA140. Believe it or not, they had a pretty good setup for a rear
mounted battery. They had a really silly set of jumpers wires
connected/welded to the battery box and routed through grommets on the
box to the battery (eliminated by Aircraft Spruce upgrade kit), but the
layout will provide anyone hoping to install rear mounted batteries with
a very clear picture of how things are done. Visit your FBO and ask
someone to let you look under the rear seat (there's always a 140
around). Take a picture of the layout. One note about their setup is
that they installed the starter contactor on firewall and run a #6? from
the rear up the left side, through the firewall to the contactor and
then to the starter which is up front on the Lycoming. I was very proud
of my first wiring job and gladly threw that old stuff in the trash. The
engine turned over 3x faster with the new cables etc. I am installing
dual batteries rear of the rear bulkhead in my new Legacy and will use
the pictures I took to help with the layout.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
Lamphere
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions
--> <lamphere@earthlink.net>
Bob,
Now you are confusing me..
Yes, I did look at the link you provided.
Using the generic aircraft - single battery schematic for schematic on
metal tube frame. Battery (Odyssey 680) and contactor will be located
under baggage compartment floor behind seat backs.
I thought we were supposed to run a ground wire from the battery to the
brass ground bus plate (with all the quick connect tabs on it) which was
to be mounted on the firewall. Isn't using the airframe for ground now
generating two paths for ground - hence possible problems?
I'm about ready to wire in my rear mounted battery (before covering). I
will use flexible wire for the battery terminal connections (and to the
local ground if that's what I am supposed to do). No problem attaching
ground leads to the frame if a good idea. It would eliminate an extra
wire to top and bottom strobes and tail position light... but I was
already resolved to run + and gnd to each (using a small local-next to
battery version of the brass ground bus with quick disconnects like in
the front)
I'd appreciate your input.
Thanks,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:38 AM
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Rear Mounted Batteries in Z-14
> --> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>
> >Comments/Questions: Bob,
> >
> >First, thank you for all you do and have done to support the
> >Experimental
> >Aircraft community over the years. I have had your materials and
> >reference your web site on a VERY frequent basis...great stuff!
>
> Thank you for the kind words . . .
>
>
> > I am now building an RV-10, and plan on using the Z-14 dual battery
> > configuration. I am pretty much decided on using two of the 600 amp
> > Odyssey batteries, mounted side by side in the standard rear
tailcone
> > configuration.
> >
> > From a configuration perspective, Is it acceptable to locate both
> > battery
> > contactor relays near the rear mounted batteries?
>
> That's where they're supposed to go. Battery contactors and
battery
> busses are mounted adjacent to their respective batteries.
Irrespective
> of what kind of wire you use for other "fat wires" in the
airplane,
> consider the use of 4AWG, welding cable jumpers from battery(+)
and
> battery(-) terminals to their local attach points.
>
> >Assuming the foregoing is acceptable, is it sufficient for me to use
> >one
> >#4 wire from the positive side of each contactor forward to the
starter
> >contactor and cross-feed contactor appropriately?
>
> I think this will be fine.
>
> >Is it OK to use one wire for the battery ground from the rear
> >batteries
> >forward to the firewall? By that I mean can I use a single say #2
wire to
> >bring the ground forward to the firewall ground bus locations?
>
> Ground batteries locally, each to a separate tab riveted
> to most robust structure available. See:
>
> http://aeroelectric.com/articles/Battery_Grounds/Battery_Grounds.html
>
>
> >You recommend the main battery bus connection to the main battery
> >contactor (usually a #10 wire) be kept less than 6 inches. Obviously
if
> >the battery contactor is located aft, that is not possible. Do I
need to
> >fuse-protect the line, or increase the wire size?
>
> It IS possible because the always hot busses are located
> next to their respective batteries.
>
>
> >Bob, Thank you again in advance!
>
> My pleasure sir!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Double row breaker panel |
Todd -
Did you mean all of the wires?
Stan
Do not archive
PS - Actually your advice is appreciated. I will be doing something similar
and I will take your advice and route ALL the wires to one side.
Here is the secret. All of the wires..... and I mean ALL OF THE WIRES
must go to one side of the breaker panel.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: re: Capacitors for Whelen strobe power |
supply
I want to thank everyone for the information on strobe capacitors. I
have ordered some from Digi-key and will let the list know how they work.
Dennis H.
Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
> <nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
> Here's a note I received on one fellows success with
> replacing flash-rated capacitors with plain-vanilla
> electrolytics.
>
> His confirmation of my past experiences suggests that
> the experiment is worth repeating.
>
>
>> Hey, Bob, I'm just a lurker in the archives, but I have replaced the
>> electrolytics in two Whelen strobe supplies.... Worked fine then and
>> is working fine now. Some spray-on conformal coating helps cut down
>> on the high-voltage corrosion in the units.
>
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Electronic Ignition |
Did you talk to Klaus about getting a manual or an upgrade to the unit
to match the newer manual?
LSE @ (805) 933-3299
Message 12
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|
Glad that you are back. Always interested in what you have to
say. While reconsidering my over voltage circuit I wondered about
breaking one of the ac wires from the alternator (John Deer, same as
Mark Langford) as a means of shutting down the alternator when the
crowbar actuates the relay. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks, Cleone
t 07:40 PM 3/27/2007, you wrote:
><nuckollsr@cox.net>
>
>At 09:11 AM 3/27/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>><bbradburry@allvantage.com>
>>
>>Thanks, Bob! My buddy at the airport has offered to look at the
>>board. He has it now. If he comes up empty handed...(not likely :>))
>>I will take you up on the offer.
>
> Very well. Holler if we can help!
>
> Bob . . .
>
> ----------------------------------------
> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", )
> ( what ever you do must be exercised )
> ( EVERY day . . . )
> ( R. L. Nuckolls III )
> ----------------------------------------
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Electronic Ignition |
Hi Jack,
I think I have that model of ignition on my O-200 powered Varieze. It's
the one with the small LSE box plus a red MSD box. I'll try to remember
to grab the manual for it when I'm at the hangar tonight.
Matt-
> I have one of the original ignition systems from Lightspeed which was
> purchased in 1992 by a friend who is now deceased. I am going to install
> it on my IO-360 but am missing the manual. I have the newer manual but it
> doesn't answer all my questions. If any of you have the manual for the
> Model CD 4 CYL AEI 42 which was discontinued in 1995 I'd sure appreciate
> a copy of it.
>
> Thanks, Jack In AZ
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> TV dinner still cooling?
> Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: New question |
At 01:41 PM 3/28/2007 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Glad that you are back. Always interested in what you have to say. While
>reconsidering my over voltage circuit I wondered about breaking one of the
>ac wires from the alternator (John Deer, same as Mark Langford) as a
>means of shutting down the alternator when the crowbar actuates the
>relay. What are your thoughts about this? Thanks, Cleone
Revision 11J to Figure Z-16 does exactly that. I'm
going to modify all the AC dynamo systems to do the same
thing on Revision 12.
Bob . . .
Message 15
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| Subject: | DIY engine monitor |
Greetings listers,
I am looking at the possibility of making my own engine monitor. I would
like 6 CHT and 2 EGT. Any info on kits or plans would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN
do not archive
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