AeroElectric-List Digest Archive

Mon 04/02/07


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:17 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Sam Marlow)
     2. 05:36 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Sam Marlow)
     3. 06:25 AM - Avionics Mounting (BobsV35B@aol.com)
     4. 06:33 AM - Re: OFF DIY engine monitor (Ernest Christley)
     5. 06:33 AM - Re: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     6. 06:35 AM - Re: the battery dragon . . . (Robert L. Nuckolls, III)
     7. 06:55 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Sam Marlow)
     8. 07:06 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Ernest Christley)
     9. 07:36 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Sam Marlow)
    10. 08:33 AM - Avionics Mounting (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    11. 11:18 AM - Re: Avionics Mounting (Ernest Christley)
    12. 12:53 PM - Avionics Mounting (BobsV35B@aol.com)
    13. 06:31 PM - Re: Fw: Re: Re: Capacitors for Whelen strobe power supply (Dennis Haverlah)
    14. 07:39 PM - Location of electrical shunt (Dale Fultz)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:17:41 AM PST US
    From: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    I'll work on that today. Sam Marlow RV_10 wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > > > Do you have any photos of your install that you could send to me? > > > > Thank you, > > John Cleary > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of > *BobsV35B@aol.com > *Sent:* Saturday, 31 March 2007 1:56 AM > *To:* aeroelectric-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Re: AeroElectric-List: Avionics Mounting > > > > In a message dated 3/30/2007 8:39:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > sam@fr8dog.net writes: > > I have the same radio stack, just used .250 AL bar, and taped the > holes for #8 screws. I also added 1 support in the rear of the stack. > > Good Morning > > > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > ** > * * > * > > > *


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:36:24 AM PST US
    From: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    Yes that's very true, but I can just build another AL bar rack before UPS can deliver a made to order unit. It's simple and cheap, from your Lowe's aviation department! BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Sam, > > The advantage (if there is any) to the RadioRax is that they are > infinitely adjustable. If you want to rearrange or add anything to the > stack, there is no need to drill new holes. With any of the more > conventional strips, the new holes often conflict with old holes which > will then require that a new support bar be fabricated and installed. > > If you are absolutely certain you will never want to change anything, > there is little advantage to the RadioRax system. > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8 > > In a message dated 3/30/2007 8:39:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > sam@fr8dog.net writes: > > I have the same radio stack, just used .250 AL bar, and taped the > holes for #8 screws. I also added 1 support in the rear of the stack. > > 503 > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > * > > > *


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:25:36 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Avionics Mounting
    Good Morning Sam, But you can't make and install a new bar in the time it takes me to loosen a screw and slide the radio sleeve up or down an eighth of an inch. There is no need to ever touch the mounting bars once they are installed. The placement of all fastenings is infinitely adjustable forever! Why do you feel it would be necessary to wait for a made to order unit? Do Not Archive Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 4/2/2007 7:38:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, sam@fr8dog.net writes: Yes that's very true, but I can just build another AL bar rack before UPS can deliver a made to order unit. It's simple and cheap, from your Lowe's aviation department! _BobsV35B@aol.com_ (mailto:BobsV35B@aol.com) wrote: Good Morning Sam, The advantage (if there is any) to the RadioRax is that they are infinitely adjustable. If you want to rearrange or add anything to the stack, there is no need to drill new holes. With any of the more conventional strips, the new holes often conflict with old holes which will then require that a new support bar be fabricated and installed. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:33:32 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: DIY engine monitor
    Joe & Jan Connell wrote: > Guys, > > Some of the postings on this topic have discussed the work > done by GAMI in regards to lean of peak. I might be incorrect > but the GAMI folks are usually working with fuel injection, not > carburetors. Please correct me if I'm wrong... > > Joe Connell I think the thrust of your question is that GAMI is an authority on injectors, but are not in a position to authoritatively discuss carburated engines. It's a valid point. If someone claims to be an authority, the need to show from where that claim derives. I've seen some of their work as it relates to instrumenting an engine cylinder to collect data. Most of it as related by John Deakins in his Avweb column. I rank it highly and trust it, because the explanations provided break the cylinder combustion process down to basic principles of physics and remove a lot of the black majic and handwaving. The sort that you'll get a lot of around a racetrack or other such place where people think they know what is happening, but haven't actually instrumented a cylinder to find out. Once the cylinder is instrumented, it is a simple matter to swap the engine to be carburated. If I was going to attempt to compete in this arena, I most certainly would do that. It would be plain silly not to. No, I haven't seen any data they've collected from a carburated engine, and they mostly concentrate on promoting *balanced* injectors; however, the statements they've made about carburated engines corresponds to every statement I've heard from any other authority (including my high school physics teacher.) -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:33:49 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Rear Mounted Batteries - more questions
    At 09:12 AM 4/1/2007 +1000, you wrote: >Hello 'Lectric Bob, > >Thank you for all the fantastic effort you put into this group. It is >extremely helpful to those of us with zero earlier experience in this area. > >I have read the Connection a couple of times and I have been pondering the >whole issue of batteries and locations and fat wires etc. > >Attached is a schematic of a Z-14, architecture for rear batteries. This is >not your current Z-14, and I don't know now where I got this from, but it >very specifically states that the Aft Ground Buss is NOT Grounded to the >airframe. > >My wife and I are building an RV-10. We are planning an all electric IFR >panel and a two PC625 battery, two alternator electrical system. Would you >please make your comments specific to this setup? > >Am I correct in assuming that there is an ideal setup for a two rear >battery, two alternator system, which is the Z-14 attached, and then there >is a more practical setup, which has the batteries grounded at the rear. Is >this correct? Essentially yes. If one were building a composite aircraft, then a fat feeder for battery(-) leads to the firewall is REQUIRED. But in a metal airplane, one has the option of crafting a pristine system depicted in the sketch -or- taking advantage of the airframe as a power return for devices that are NOT potential victims to ground loop conducted noises. >Would you please comment on the relative merits of these two different >approaches, and especially comment on any downside of both approaches? > >If you ground both rear batteries as suggested down the back to the >airframe, do you then set up your avionics ground bus at the panel simply by >connecting it to the firewall Ground? Are there any issues or concerns with >doing this? Nope. Your engine straps to the bolt at this ground also. > >From a purely electrical perspective, would it be preferable in our >situation (ignoring weight and balance questions for the moment) to have >either battery situated up the front somewhere? If yes, which would be >preferable to put up the front, and why? Batteries are the ultimate mitigator of CG problems. From the electrical perspective, we'd like to have all the starters, alternators and batteries be grouped together in something under 2 cubic feet of common volume. As a practical matter, batteries are placed where they need to go to accommodate other airframe design goals. As a major component of weight and volume, batteries are among the very few items where performance is not seriously compromised by moving them around. >I also have a couple of other questions on the attached Figure Z-14. Does >the single ground lead from both batteries to the front provide a single >source of total failure? And lastly, why have you specified the copper/brass >strap on the power side of the main battery in the attached Z-14? The crossfeed contactor, starter contactor and current limiter block can be mounted within inches of each other and "wired" with flat strap like the pictures found in this directory . . . http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Wiring_Technique/ The short straps are much easier to fabricate and install than very short hunks of fat wire with terminals. Bob . . .


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:35:33 AM PST US
    From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckollsr@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: the battery dragon . . .
    At 07:36 AM 3/31/2007 -0600, you wrote: ><nuckollsr@cox.net> > > >>Comments/Questions: I am building a Jabiru J430 and plan to include your >>crowbar overvoltage system and low voltage detector. I am planning on a >>dual battery where the second battery supports the main bus but not the >>starter motor. The plan is to put a power diode between the bus and the >>main battery. This means that that both batteries will charge from the >>regulator but the second battery will not contribute to starting and >>provide a sink to the bus to ensure voltage is maintained to the bus even >>during starting. The idea is for the second battery to keep the electics >>going in the event of main battery failure. Do you think this make sense? > > Unless you're planning not to maintain your battery, then > 'battery failure' is exceedingly remote. The battery can > be the most reliable source of power in the airplane. <snip> I missed an important part of this guy's questions 'bout brownout protection. I'm crafting an article to cover both the brownout free bus (BOF-Bus) and battery failures. It's about done and will be published to the website this evening. Bob . . .


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:55:38 AM PST US
    From: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    Well, I was referring to my case only, since I already have mine installed. I guess I didn't make that very clear. Keep it simple and fly sooner! Sam Marlow BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Sam, > > But you can't make and install a new bar in the time it takes me to > loosen a screw and slide the radio sleeve up or down an eighth of an > inch. There is no need to ever touch the mounting bars once they are > installed. The placement of all fastenings is infinitely adjustable > forever! > > Why do you feel it would be necessary to wait for a made to order unit? > > Do Not Archive > > Happy Skies, > > Old Bob > AKA > Bob Siegfried > Ancient Aviator > Stearman N3977A > Brookeridge Air Park LL22 > Downers Grove, IL 60516 > 630 985-8503 > > In a message dated 4/2/2007 7:38:08 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > sam@fr8dog.net writes: > > Yes that's very true, but I can just build another AL bar rack > before UPS can deliver a made to order unit. It's simple and > cheap, from your Lowe's aviation department! > > BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: >> Good Morning Sam, >> >> The advantage (if there is any) to the RadioRax is that they are >> infinitely adjustable. If you want to rearrange or add anything >> to the stack, there is no need to drill new holes. With any of >> the more conventional strips, the new holes often conflict with >> old holes which will then require that a new support bar be >> fabricated and installed. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > See what's free at AOL.com > <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF00020000000503>. > * > > > *


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:06:05 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Sam, > > But you can't make and install a new bar in the time it takes me to > loosen a screw and slide the radio sleeve up or down an eighth of an > inch. There is no need to ever touch the mounting bars once they are > installed. The placement of all fastenings is infinitely adjustable > forever! > > Why do you feel it would be necessary to wait for a made to order unit? > Why wouldn't you just cut slots instead of tapped holes in the Lowe's Aviation angle? It's not infinitely adjustable, but there's plenty for what's necessary. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:36:35 AM PST US
    From: Sam Marlow <sam@fr8dog.net>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    I'm a little close on room, my panel is full. Ernest Christley wrote: > <echristley@nc.rr.com> > > BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > >> Good Morning Sam, >> >> But you can't make and install a new bar in the time it takes me to >> loosen a screw and slide the radio sleeve up or down an eighth of an >> inch. There is no need to ever touch the mounting bars once they are >> installed. The placement of all fastenings is infinitely adjustable >> forever! >> >> Why do you feel it would be necessary to wait for a made to order unit? >> > > > Why wouldn't you just cut slots instead of tapped holes in the Lowe's > Aviation angle? It's not infinitely adjustable, but there's plenty > for what's necessary. >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:33:32 AM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Avionics Mounting
    Good Morning Ernest, Given adequate machining capability, you could produce almost anything you wanted to produce. I was merely commenting that I like the way RadioRax work and I wish I would have thought of it! You can manufacture your own engine if you want to. I tend to buy my engines already built and I also buy other products that are beyond my capability of producing economically. Whatever works! Happy Skies, Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 4/2/2007 9:08:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, echristley@nc.rr.com writes: Why wouldn't you just cut slots instead of tapped holes in the Lowe's Aviation angle? It's not infinitely adjustable, but there's plenty for what's necessary. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:18:02 AM PST US
    From: Ernest Christley <echristley@nc.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Avionics Mounting
    BobsV35B@aol.com wrote: > Good Morning Ernest, > > Given adequate machining capability, you could produce almost anything > you wanted to produce. > > I was merely commenting that I like the way RadioRax work and I wish I > would have thought of it! > > You can manufacture your own engine if you want to. I tend to buy my > engines already built and I also buy other products that are beyond my > capability of producing economically. > > Whatever works! > For a cheap slotted hole, you can buy a rotary saw. Looks like a drill bit with a serated edge. To cut aluminum, wax up both sides real good with a candle. Scrape a little on the bit, too. For a really straight slot, clamp a fence to your drill press table (or a friends table if you don't have one, and he ain't lookin'). Drop the bit through at the start of the slot and push the piece through to the end of it. The fence would be a chunk of 2x4, another piece of angle, or any other straight object of suitable length. It's easier if you can find a suitable helper, as it's best to have two hands on the workpiece if possible. If it isn't possible, clamp a fence on both sides of the angle so it can't spin on you. Maybe I should take some pictures of the process and send it in to the new guy doing home machine shop articles in Kitplanes. -- ,|"|"|, Ernest Christley | ----===<{{(oQo)}}>===---- Dyke Delta Builder | o| d |o http://ernest.isa-geek.org |


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:53:51 PM PST US
    From: BobsV35B@aol.com
    Subject: Avionics Mounting
    Good Afternoon Ernest, In my opinion, the article produced would still have no where near the capability of the RadioRax. I think it is wonderful that you and others have the freedom to make and use whatever you want on your airplane. I also have a choice. Given the choice between anything I have yet manufactured and the readily available manufactured items, I will take the readily available RadioRax! Maybe I remove and add components to my radio stack a lot more often than do most others, but drilling new holes and slots in an existing piece of aluminum is not as pleasurable to me as is just loosening a binding screw and moving the radio sleeves wherever I want them to be. A little extra effort during the original installation saves me hours of work every time thereafter that a radio needs to be moved or replaced. Happy Skies, Do Not Archive Old Bob AKA Bob Siegfried Ancient Aviator Stearman N3977A Brookeridge Air Park LL22 Downers Grove, IL 60516 630 985-8503 In a message dated 4/2/2007 1:20:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, echristley@nc.rr.com writes: For a cheap slotted hole, you can buy a rotary saw. Looks like a drill bit with a serated edge. To cut aluminum, wax up both sides real good with a candle. Scrape a little on the bit, too. ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:31:29 PM PST US
    From: Dennis Haverlah <clouduster@austin.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: re: Capacitors for Whelen strobe power
    supply I was asked how the repair of the Whelen strobe power supply has gone. The strobe is Model A413A,HDA-DF-14 The power supply is working but it took some luck. I'm pretty much an amateur when it comes to electronics. I used the P11920-ND capacitors from DigiKey. These were recommended by James Foerster - Thanks James! The capacitors are the correct electrical size but are much smaller physically than the original caps. After installing the new capacitors, the strobe flashed erratically and the large transistor mounted on the aluminum heat sink got quite hot. I believe the transistor controls the high voltage transformer primary windings but I'm not sure. I would discharge the capacitors with an insulated screwdriver before inspecting the unit. Only one cap. had a charge. A test with a voltmeter showed the second cap. was not getting any voltage. The high voltage windings on the transformer charging the caps. is a center-tap winding. The center tap is connected to the + on one cap. and the - on the other. I disconnected the dead winding output wire (read cut it off 1 inch from the circuit board with a dike) and hooked it to my Harbor Freight $4.00 volt meter. Powered up, it had several hundred volts A/C so I assumed the transformer was OK! That was good news because if the transformer was bad I'd give up. I looked at the circuit board and the next component on the board where the transformer wire connected was a diode - marked EDA - BR8M5. I tested it with the HF meter and it was open!! I could not find any data on the BR8M5 diode but I had a pack of RadioShack IN 5404 diodes rated at 400 V. Soldered one in and the power supply came alive - And the transistor is now running Cool! Hope this helps someone else rejuvenate a strobe power supply. I hate to see them thrown away! PS: If you want to get your Grand kids attention - discharge one of the capacitors while they are watching! Dennis Haverlah wrote: > <clouduster@austin.rr.com> > > I want to thank everyone for the information on strobe capacitors. I > have ordered some from Digi-key and will let the list know how they work. > > Dennis H. > > Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote: > >> <nuckollsr@cox.net> >> >> Here's a note I received on one fellows success with >> replacing flash-rated capacitors with plain-vanilla >> electrolytics. >> >> His confirmation of my past experiences suggests that >> the experiment is worth repeating. >> >> >> >>> Hey, Bob, I'm just a lurker in the archives, but I have replaced the >>> electrolytics in two Whelen strobe supplies.... Worked fine then and >>> is working fine now. Some spray-on conformal coating helps cut down >>> on the high-voltage corrosion in the units. >> >> >> >> Bob . . . >> >> ---------------------------------------- >> ( IF one aspires to be "world class", ) >> ( what ever you do must be exercised ) >> ( EVERY day . . . ) >> ( R. L. Nuckolls III ) >> ---------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:39:15 PM PST US
    From: "Dale Fultz" <dfultz7@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Location of electrical shunt
    Is one place better then another for the location of the electrical shunt in the electrical system? Thanks Dale




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